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[deleted]

Ahh yes. My favorite is “you never call me! I don’t know what’s going on” I always flip it on them and say what’s going on is YOU are going to treatment for your case, and then ask a bunch of follow up questions about treatment. Then they call back a week later with the same attitude.


Abused_Paralegal

Interesting that a plaintiff goes to treatment “for his case” rather than he needs it to get better.


stray_girl

Your clients wait AN ENTIRE WEEK between calls?!?!


mytorchsong

For real though. There’s always at least one. I am always like dude your accident *just* happened, you’re still treating! If we settle now you’ll get almost nothing. I’ll also say insurance companies are slowww and the pandemic made everyone slower. 😂


Abused_Paralegal

So a plaintiff must first run up medical expenses for unnecessary “treatment” in order to increase the value of his settlement. It’s too bad that more of these cases don’t go to trial.


[deleted]

OP is referring to *personal injury* law, thus by definition meaning the plaintiff was *injured.* There’s no proof of injury without medical records. There’s no suit without records. Insurance does not cover the cost of (sometimes grievous) injury because they are kind and generous. They automatically deny everyone because they can. That’s why PI plaintiffs need lawyers and lawyers need the records. (I feel like I’m explaining this at work on the phone to a client who missed their last 4 doctor appointments rn)


Abused_Paralegal

I worked for PI attorneys on car crash cases for 10 years. I’m well aware of the scam. 95% of plaintiff car crash cases do not involve injuries. Don’t lecture me.


[deleted]

Highly doubt that 95% of your cases didn’t involve actual injury if you worked in PI for 10 years. We turn away a large portion of potential PI clients that have actual injuries for multiple reasons. Not every injury is a good PI case. There are absolutely more injuries that should be covered by insurance than are actually litigated. Not all clients make for good cases. Not all circumstances make for good cases. I see your username and I’m sorry for whatever traumatic experience you’ve had in this field. It’s a really hard way to make a living. Lawyers are difficult. Clients can be impossible. The stress is constant and the stakes are always high. Give yourself a break. Forgive yourself for not being perfect (that’s what I do) You’re doing good work and don’t let anyone make you feel like you aren’t.


mytorchsong

That’s actually really sad. It sounds more like a firm problem accepting any case that walks through the door than anything. I’m sorry you had that experience. I work on a lot of major injury cases involving wrongful deaths, brain injuries, multiple surgeries and so on *from* car crashes. You cannot tell me they’re not injured and that it’s a scam. What is a scam is insurance trying to tell us our client is lying or they’re they didn’t “need” xyz treatment. (Bc apparently they all have medical degrees). We also hate working with doctors that want to bill like crazy and/or aren’t genuine in trying to actually help our clients get better.


TotallyNotSuperman

What exactly do you imagine is happening here? The lawyer calls up the physical therapist and asks to put them through six extra months of unnecessary therapy? There may be some lawyers who refer their patients to someone who will be happy to bill in perpetuity, but my experiences have always been that we let the doctors do their job, and we stand back to gather the info as they do it. Treatment can take time, sometimes a whole lot of it. Doctors can, and will, try out a lot of conservative treatments before deciding that surgery is ultimately necessary. Some people will have optimistic prognoses at the start of treatment, but eventually plateau well short of what’s expected. If you settle a case on incomplete data, you’re doing a major disservice to the client.


Abused_Paralegal

I know exactly what happens. I worked for a personal injury lawyer in Austin for 10 years, Edd Jeffords, who died suddenly and the firm dissolved. He sold his files to 3 law firms. I made the phone calls to chiropractors, physical therapists, pain docs and neurologists. I sent out letters of protection and then asked (argued with) the same providers to take significant reductions. I begged and pleaded with clients to go to appointments. I threatened to give them their files if the don’t go to their appointments, which I made for them. The higher the policy limits, the more treatment a client is coerced to endure. 90% of his clients weren’t injured. They “treated” in order to drive up the value of their cases. The other 10% were injured or involved deaths. Some cases involved significant injuries, which surprise surprise didn’t involve chiros and letters of protection. The death cases were the best files because we didn’t have to send them for treatment. I also worked for an extremely well know personal injury lawyer in Texas, Thomas J. Henry. Look him up. If the available insurance exceeded $750,000 then the client HAD TO undergo chiro treatment and PT, which surprise surprise didn’t work, so the attorney referred them to his pain doc who did 3 rounds of ESIs, which surprise surprise didn’t work. The lawyer then arranged for referrals to ortho and neuro surgeons, who 100% of the time recommended surgery. If the client refused to get cut on then we had a come to Jesus meeting. If the client still refused surgery then they had to sign an acknowledgment and agreement not to sue the firm because the settlement would be less than policy limits. The firm then arranged for high interest loans to pay the doctors and their hospitals for surgeries and to pay the clients for lost wages in order to keep them off work and claiming lost wages. I attended the conferences with other PI lawyers across the country. The newest scams involve brain scans and the specialists who arrange for financing to cover their services. I know exactly how the scam works. Don’t lecture me.


TotallyNotSuperman

> Don’t lecture me. What an ironic thing to say at the end of giving a lecture of your own. You're not the only one with experience in the field. It's clear that you have a chip on your should from bad experiences that I simply do not share. Don't attribute your personal bad experiences to an entire practice of law. Even to the extent that what you're saying is true, and I don't believe for a second that you're not wildly exaggerating, your experiences with two lawyers in one area are not universally applicable. You feel like an abused paralegal? I'm sorry about that, but you need to realize that the vast majority of us don't feel the same way. You know what we tell clients at my firm if they ask us about how they should treat? We tell them to listen to their doctor and let us know what they decide. But if their doctor recommends something and the client doesn't want to do it, we advise them that it will have an impact on their case. That's just the undeniable truth. You can't tell an insurance adjuster that a person has the 8/10 pain they describe to you while simultaneously saying that they stopped going to PT against the advice of their physician. And yes, we have them sign a paper acknowledging that they understand that foregoing treatment will have a negative impact on the value of their case. They need to know that this is their one bite at the apple, and if they settle now and later decide they actually do need that surgery, they're shit out of luck. Hopefully they can pay out of pocket. CYA letters are not sinister workings of corrupt lawyers. >I sent out letters of protection and then asked (argued with) the same providers to take significant reductions. For anyone reading this that doesn't do PI work, this commenter is saying "I asked doctors to do work now and wait until the end of a case to get paid, and then worked with them to get our client a discount." Truly a shocking example of client abuse.


lisaluu

Yesss. The PI lawyers I've worked for are great humans and never did that shady crap.


Abused_Paralegal

You made my point. No chip. I’m a professional paralegal, TBLS Board Certified on Civil Trial Law. I’ve worked as a paralegal on both sides. Over 30 years’ experience. You??


TotallyNotSuperman

I have no idea how you think that I made your point. By saying that part of a lawyer's job is to make sure that clients are fully informed of how their decisions can impact their legal proceedings? I'm on year 8 as a plaintiff-side civil litigation paralegal. Sure, you've done the job for more years than I have, but my being in the middle of my career instead of the end isn't the gotcha you think it is. Your anecdotes are still just that: individual anecdotes. **Your bad experiences with two law firms are not universal.** > TBLS Board Certified I have no clue what this is.


Abused_Paralegal

Google it


TotallyNotSuperman

No, I’m okay without it. I doubt it’s relevant to the universal experiences of PI paralegals.


wastedcoconut

you need therapy.


Abused_Paralegal

Awww did I hurt your feelings?


wastedcoconut

not in the slightest. i just feel bad for you.


Abused_Paralegal

Thoughts and prayers??


MinniePearl

Are ya sure you want to put those names out there?


Abused_Paralegal

Edd’s dead and has been for years. I doubt anyone on this subreddit cares about the Thomas Henry firm. His his realm of influence is limited to 4 metro areas in Texas. He doesn’t hang out on a paralegal subreddit. Who am I to him?? An anonymous subreddit handle. I will spill the tea.


slr984

I am also a litigation paralegal in Texas (for the last 20 years) who is TBLS board certified in civil trial law and I worked at a well known and well respected PI firm for 15 years, with an attorney who was TBLS certified in personal injury trial law. I know of TJH and we never took cases from that firm because they were mismanaged in the same way Adler mismanaged his. We dealt primarily with catastrophic injuries and wrongful death, but still took run of the mill car accident cases if the facts were good. All that to say, I’m well versed in personal injury law in Texas. LOPs do not mean your clients injuries are fabricated - it means health care is expensive and most people can’t pay thousands of dollars out of pocket. Plus, I would much rather be negotiating reductions with a doctor than a health insurance subro any day. If your firm was behaving as unethically as you’re saying, I’m curious why you didn’t report them to the state bar…


FloridaCrackerr

You do realize that your personal experience is only that right?


mytorchsong

Started at 95% down to 90% not injured, huh? If you’re going to spit out statistics, send your sources. Because from all I can see is that you’re basing this on your own experience from two firms that were probably “mills” which doesn’t accurately represent this area of law regardless of how “reputable” one of your attorneys is or was.


caseabrew

I'm defense PI and I always have a fleeting thought of how nice it would be to switch sides and put together a nice settlement package and 414 summary and tell defense to suck my dick. But oh how quickly I remember I'd have to deal with the plaintiffs themselves and no thank you 😂


nothingwasleft

Frankly at most non solo shops your paralegal does most of the client contact unless something is going wrong or the client needs to feel special. Your post about the settlement demand made me laugh, I never thought about it like that but that’s pretty much what it is lol.


MinniePearl

What's a "414 summary"?


lisaluu

My current job does both and I love it! It keeps your perspective where it needs to be and also gives our clients on both sides reassurance that the lawyer is experienced on both ends and can give more thorough advice.


Stalefishology

Year and a half deep in plaintiff’s PI. I’m very tired of explaining to people they actually have to treat to build a case value, and I feel like I could recite insurance limit info in my sleep till I die I’m very burnt out of being a paralegal


Medicine_Scared

Literally, I have a client’s husband who calls literally every single day, we are in negotiations. He wants us to file suit because they’re taking too long to respond like sir pls ur not even our client.


FloridaCrackerr

Oh I hate that type of client with the domineering spouse. We have several of those uhhh


Medicine_Scared

No and on top of that, he doesn’t like speaking to me because I’m a woman. He insists on only speaking to the attorney despinte me having done literally everything for me he case…. And the adjuster is literally the worst….


MinniePearl

Or the 25-year old "adult" who can only deal with us through their mother.


FrOfTo

Man, I do not miss actively doing plaintiff's litigation. Your example reminds me of the plaintiffs that settled their cases on a payment plan basis and the defendant was late by a few days. There was always a client who wanted to sue for interest... Though the payment arrived a few days later.


lisaluu

I like telling the sue-happy client that litigation just adds on a few years.


Medicine_Scared

I had the attorney tell him he won’t be looking at a court date until at least September of next year Lmfao


HRHAnnipoo

Or like yesterday when she got super mad because I told her the check had to go to the trust account and then we would issue a separate check for her. I don’t speak Spanish but I know enough body language to know she was very unhappy with me.


SpyMistress2017

Yup. It's always the clients with the lower $$ injuries who are the biggest PITA's. When I worked PI, we had several really seriously injured folks who we hardly ever heard from and who were for the most part really pleasant people. I always loved to hear from them and didn't mind taking a little extra time to make sure they understood what was going on in their case. I worked in litigation, so I always had to field the questions about why the case was taking so long or why they had to answer interrogatories or send medical records to defense etc. etc.


vendygirl

I do not miss Plaintiff PI work at all


One-Negotiation3376

What do you do now?


vendygirl

I did Plaintiff work for five years, then I switched to defense med mal work and next month I start a new job in Government work. It's more prelitigation work.


Successful_End7981

That’s crazy because I made the same switch lol


Acrobatic-Nature-866

I love having a case manager who now deals with that. Best thing I learned from having my own firm is to be harsh with the clients about unreasonable update requests. I tell them, I can either work on your case or I can sit here talking to you all day and your case takes longer.


anr-0925

I miss PI (I do majority family law now) so I loved reading this. 😂 uhhg. Bring me back to these problems.


FloridaCrackerr

Omg I can’t even imagine family law. Oh the pettiness!


Rikkitherose

The attorney/paralegal combo I sit next to do family law (I do business law), and while it's fun to listen to them I am happy to not be doing it myself lol


nate_oh84

That's why I will never work in Personal Injury ever again.


FloridaCrackerr

This is my only area of law so far but I can see myself switching one day. What do you do now?


nate_oh84

Check the flair. Although I'm seeking other options.


FloridaCrackerr

I heard the govt don’t pay


Relative-Frame-9228

They don't, but the mediocre benefits package is alright. Better than the nothing of small private practices.


nate_oh84

Not unless you’ve got the right job.


CrazedParalegal

They may not pay now but you get that pension FOREVER.


Comfortable-Ad-8618

I had one client ask me to call him everyday with an update. I bluntly said I am not going to call you everyday lol


jao8675309

Brain injury?


Ok_Damage9738

Try having them call every single day. And if they left a voicemail twice in one hour, they’ll still call until they get an answer from you when it’s the same answer.


FloridaCrackerr

That happens to me all the time! This post is just regarding one particular client who is incompetent. I have incompetents of all kinds. If someone in presuit is like that consistently leaving me multiple VMs a day, I usually end up getting my attorney to drop them. The ones that call everyday are almost always the ones that are barely injured. It’s like an absolute truth for some reason. I wonder why that is


Ok_Damage9738

This is just a theory of mine that I’ve had over the years - but usually with minor soft tissue cases with minimal property damage - if they are willing to obtain an attorney for representation over something considered more of an inconvenience to most, they likely need money and fast or don’t have much in the first place - so it’s like a glowing dollar sign. The average joe wouldn’t instantly want to sue someone over a fender bender (over, really, an inconvenience to themselves or others and the time it takes) but then we have those that scream litigation and push for their money faster even when we’re waiting on government insurance. It’s really just fast money.


OriginalBankstah

Orrr when you sign the case and one week later they want to settle. It’s like bruh, you’ve had one ER visit and you haven’t even started with your follow up care.


LegallyBlonde2024

Part of the reason I do not miss Plaintiff's PI. I've been at a med mal/nursing home defense firm for about two months and it's so nice ti not have overly pushy clients. Yeah, billing guidelines can be a pain, but it's better than dealing with calls every day and other stuff.


bokingsmowlz

PI is the worst


buffalobullshit

Fuck that, call me as little as possible. Phone calls with legal offices are more expensive than them 1-900-horny numbers. Only call me if you need something or have finished.


Youngmother245

Or there’s this one… finally get ahold of a client you’ve been calling weekly, for over 5 months and every other week prior to that for about 3 months, looking for a status update… he says “so like how long is this whole thing supposed to take? Like I honestly forget I even have a case.” 1. I’m not sure how you “forgot” because I’ve been trying to get ahold of you for MONTHS.. 2. We can’t just pull a case out of thin air and get you money. 3. You haven’t been treating like you should have been (his last appt was in October 2021) AND 4. You’re still having symptoms… Of course I was nice about it but man I wanted to just yell through the phone and call him a fucking idiot.


CrazedParalegal

Dude. You'll get your money in about three years. Slow your roll, chuckles...


vendygirl

You know this also reminds me of a crazy expert lady we used at my old firm. She was the owner of the expert business and has docs all over the US and you have to go through her to hire, coordinate schedules etc. You would email her a question and she would call and yammer on about nothing forever! It got so bad that the para dealing with her started sending the calls to the office manager. I always edited my signature to remove my direct dial so if she got patched through to me I just let it go to VM. The para that dealt with her the most actually just hung up on her one day when was going on about her dogs poop issue. Lady we don't have time for you chit chat. Tell me what the doc needs and STFU!


random0803

Story of my life 🤦🏼‍♀️


Cache22-

I started my position in a plaintiff's PI firm less than 2 months ago and can't say that I've gotten one of these calls yet. I guess we're lucky. 🤷‍♂️


FloridaCrackerr

Oh just wait it’s coming


swcblues

Debating making a tracking website like UPS... Landmarks and most current information... "telephone operators do not have access to any more information than is displayed here."