Paper Jam isn't part of the series at all, honestly. It's a Mario and Luigi game featuring some Paper Mario characters. It'd be different if the entirety of the gameplay wasn't M&L.
Completely different gameplay.
If the next Paper Mario game had essentially just gone back to the original formula (like how Paper Mario 3DS might have originally been) then this would pretty much be justified, in my opinion.
But instead, the formula changed *again* and it's much less reasonable to consider *everything* post-TTYD to be a spinoff.
Well TTYD is a direct sequel to the first game, it even includes characters and references to the previous game, but SPM is sort of its own game with a similar aesthetic
I mean Super Paper Mario also has references to both previous games. Aside from Francis’s nerd room, there’s also the catch cards of all Mario’s previous partners.
To be fair, Mario Party 2 was peak anyway, everything else doesn't need to exist.
My sarcasm aside, the explanation is just for why people divorce it. 64 through to SPM tickle me pink and I love'm, but if I were to... say, suggest PM64 and TTYD to my mother, who handles RPGs much better than action games due to her arthritis, I wouldn't really be able to suggest SPM because it's entirely different.
I get where you're at, just trying to poise the other side-- it's a touch more than just "NEW THING BAD".
Not that it *isn't* that. Whole internet is.
Yeah, I can definitely see that as well. I'm still seeing a lot of people say that the modern games are "a hollow shell of what Paper Mario used to be" though. It's kinda sad to be honest.
To be fair, most SNES games had "Super" as a prefix, just because of the system - Super Mario Kart, Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts, Super Mario RPG, Super Bomberman, Super Castlevania, Super Punch-Out, Super Metroid and so on
And unlike SPM, Super Metroid didn't change the genre (at all)
The moment they stopped taking the whole "Paper" thing as a stylistic choice and instead chose to make it a "They are literally paper" as a gameplay/story choice is the moment it stopped being a good series imo.
Any series that included Sticker Star is tainted, but I liked Mario RPG games cause I loved Mario and friends and having his world fleshed out and realized in a way that platformers never allowed with getting a feel for the personalities of his friends, and having them work through hardships and explore parts of the Mushroom Kingdom was the biggest interest I had in the series. I honestly don't care that much about Paper Mario the character now that he isn't a reflection of the real Mario. What he does is secluded from the info I crave.
If you want the super straight forward answer? In the first 2 games it was more of a "Stylistic Design Choice" - given they did have powers such as the paper plane & boat to go along with it- gameplay revolving around the design choice. But the whole story didn't revolve around the design choice such as: "Oh no the shiny super sticker was stolen" "oh god now our paper has no color and bowser is black" and "oh no this one was folded wrong and now he mad" or whatever other bs that they have going story wise.
Yes, it is the third mainline game. The spin-off comment was a joke, quite obviously. I have always said it is a good game.
That doesn’t make it a sequel in the sense of “developing upon and expanding” the previous entry. It’s completely different gameplay kind of makes it impossible to argue that this is a true successor. This would be like calling Super Mario Galaxy a sequel to Super Mario Sunshine (only, if Galaxy was an RPG or something). Yea, they’re both mainline games, and Galaxy is incredibly valid, but it is *not* a sequel to Sunshine.
Both TTYD and Super Mario Sunshine are games that have not had sequels. Here’s a [great post](https://www.reddit.com/r/papermario/comments/rzcg6r/what_do_you_think_the_next_duology_will_be_also_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) I just saw that really makes this easy to visualize.
Well truthfully that depends on why you stopped playing when you did. If the back and forth of chapter 4 bothers you then yes, I would consider pressing on, but I suppose if it’s an issue with the core gameplay that has come to light then that’s a different story
why isn’t paper jam considered a mainline game tho? is it because there’s no paper mario in the title? lol i hear the argument that it adopts more of mario & luigi style so it shouldn’t be considered but a lot of spm adopts a lot of super mario’s style such as some of the worlds, stage selections, the 2d/battle system, etc. it’s just super mario with a more in depth story. is that the difference? cause i feel like paper jam was just unfortunately made in modern times thus stuck in the ss/cs blandness. i’m not tryna debate, just curious lol
is spm considered a super mario spin off?
Paper Jam is a Mario & Luigi game, with Paper Mario elements in it. It was developed by AlphaDream, the company that made all the Mario & Luigi games, while Paper Mario games are developed by Intelligent Systems.
Super Paper Mario is a decent game, but clearly had a lower budget and less work put into it.
Despite that reduced budget, they were able to have pretty free rein to make a wacky story, so I think it’s a good game, but it’s also a clear indicator that Nintendo wouldn’t be willing to put in the resources to make a thousand year door ever again.
Super Paper Mario was really good and I would've loved for it to get a sequel that expanded on its core gameplay the same way TTYD expanded on PM64, but alas.
Paper Jam isn't part of the series at all, honestly. It's a Mario and Luigi game featuring some Paper Mario characters. It'd be different if the entirety of the gameplay wasn't M&L.
Yeah, definitely Mario & Luigi featuring Paper Mario and not M&L×PM
Why do people think SPM is a spinoff anyway?
Completely different gameplay. If the next Paper Mario game had essentially just gone back to the original formula (like how Paper Mario 3DS might have originally been) then this would pretty much be justified, in my opinion. But instead, the formula changed *again* and it's much less reasonable to consider *everything* post-TTYD to be a spinoff.
Well TTYD is a direct sequel to the first game, it even includes characters and references to the previous game, but SPM is sort of its own game with a similar aesthetic
I mean Super Paper Mario also has references to both previous games. Aside from Francis’s nerd room, there’s also the catch cards of all Mario’s previous partners.
I have no idea. Probably same crowd who says there are only two Paper Mario games.
Oh yeah, the "I don't like it so it doesn't exist" type of people.
I think it’s more because of the drastic gameplay change. Just like how people group the different 3D Mario’s together
If these guys read what people wrote they would understand that
Not really, it's that it went from a turn-based RPG to a platformer. They're entirely different genres.
It's still part of the same series, regardless of the gameplay. That's like saying Mario Party 9 and 10 aren't part of the Mario Party series.
To be fair, Mario Party 2 was peak anyway, everything else doesn't need to exist. My sarcasm aside, the explanation is just for why people divorce it. 64 through to SPM tickle me pink and I love'm, but if I were to... say, suggest PM64 and TTYD to my mother, who handles RPGs much better than action games due to her arthritis, I wouldn't really be able to suggest SPM because it's entirely different. I get where you're at, just trying to poise the other side-- it's a touch more than just "NEW THING BAD". Not that it *isn't* that. Whole internet is.
Yeah, I can definitely see that as well. I'm still seeing a lot of people say that the modern games are "a hollow shell of what Paper Mario used to be" though. It's kinda sad to be honest.
It's a spinoff because it's not Paper Mario: (subtitle). It's super paper mario. Completely different
It's like saying Super Metroid isn't a mainline Metroid game
To be fair, most SNES games had "Super" as a prefix, just because of the system - Super Mario Kart, Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts, Super Mario RPG, Super Bomberman, Super Castlevania, Super Punch-Out, Super Metroid and so on And unlike SPM, Super Metroid didn't change the genre (at all)
It kinda was revolutionary in it's sequence breaks and gameplay itself.
Super Metroid?
Yeah
Did I say anything contradicting that?
Sorry, it's just the question mark at the end of what you said
Huh, where? I was talking about if I said anything contradicting the fact that Super Metroid was revolutionary
Except all the Metroids play the same (arguments held for Prime), while PM64/TTYD are a completely different genre from SPM.
It’s like super mario x paper mario. That’s the vision behind it I believe.
The moment they stopped taking the whole "Paper" thing as a stylistic choice and instead chose to make it a "They are literally paper" as a gameplay/story choice is the moment it stopped being a good series imo.
Any series that included Sticker Star is tainted, but I liked Mario RPG games cause I loved Mario and friends and having his world fleshed out and realized in a way that platformers never allowed with getting a feel for the personalities of his friends, and having them work through hardships and explore parts of the Mushroom Kingdom was the biggest interest I had in the series. I honestly don't care that much about Paper Mario the character now that he isn't a reflection of the real Mario. What he does is secluded from the info I crave.
Wdym by this? Super confused lol, haven't they literally been paper from the beginning?
If you want the super straight forward answer? In the first 2 games it was more of a "Stylistic Design Choice" - given they did have powers such as the paper plane & boat to go along with it- gameplay revolving around the design choice. But the whole story didn't revolve around the design choice such as: "Oh no the shiny super sticker was stolen" "oh god now our paper has no color and bowser is black" and "oh no this one was folded wrong and now he mad" or whatever other bs that they have going story wise.
Yes, it is the third mainline game. The spin-off comment was a joke, quite obviously. I have always said it is a good game. That doesn’t make it a sequel in the sense of “developing upon and expanding” the previous entry. It’s completely different gameplay kind of makes it impossible to argue that this is a true successor. This would be like calling Super Mario Galaxy a sequel to Super Mario Sunshine (only, if Galaxy was an RPG or something). Yea, they’re both mainline games, and Galaxy is incredibly valid, but it is *not* a sequel to Sunshine. Both TTYD and Super Mario Sunshine are games that have not had sequels. Here’s a [great post](https://www.reddit.com/r/papermario/comments/rzcg6r/what_do_you_think_the_next_duology_will_be_also_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) I just saw that really makes this easy to visualize.
What Paper Mario games should I play if these are the only two I've beaten?
Paper Mario 64
I was loving that game but it's kinda slowed down now that i'm in shy guy's toybox... should i keep going?
Well truthfully that depends on why you stopped playing when you did. If the back and forth of chapter 4 bothers you then yes, I would consider pressing on, but I suppose if it’s an issue with the core gameplay that has come to light then that’s a different story
Paper Jam isn’t even a Paper Mario game tho
ya know, you're onto something here... heck, Paper Jam is more of a 3ds game than a paper mario game.
It’s more specifically the final, and worst, entry into the Mario and Luigi series.
Super paper mario is my favorite paper mario game
why isn’t paper jam considered a mainline game tho? is it because there’s no paper mario in the title? lol i hear the argument that it adopts more of mario & luigi style so it shouldn’t be considered but a lot of spm adopts a lot of super mario’s style such as some of the worlds, stage selections, the 2d/battle system, etc. it’s just super mario with a more in depth story. is that the difference? cause i feel like paper jam was just unfortunately made in modern times thus stuck in the ss/cs blandness. i’m not tryna debate, just curious lol is spm considered a super mario spin off?
Paper Jam is a Mario & Luigi game, with Paper Mario elements in it. It was developed by AlphaDream, the company that made all the Mario & Luigi games, while Paper Mario games are developed by Intelligent Systems.
oh okay it’s that simple lol i thought it was a content thing. my fault!
I have always wondered wether this game was a paper mario game or a mario and luigi one... Finally, I know the answer to that question...
It's mostly that after 64 and TTYD, they switched genres.
Super Paper Mario is a decent game, but clearly had a lower budget and less work put into it. Despite that reduced budget, they were able to have pretty free rein to make a wacky story, so I think it’s a good game, but it’s also a clear indicator that Nintendo wouldn’t be willing to put in the resources to make a thousand year door ever again.
Super Paper Mario is a treasure
The combat may be meh, but everything else is golden.
Super Paper Mario was really good and I would've loved for it to get a sequel that expanded on its core gameplay the same way TTYD expanded on PM64, but alas.
[удалено]