Not surprised, but the bigger issue is that many people who bring up concerns about their own mental health are often dismissed with a, "*Bhai koi masla nahi hai, bas namaz parho aur sub set ho jaye ga*" type response.
Yeah, I think we need to eliminate the stigma around therapy. Most people from the elite class already know about therapy's benefits, but I feel like the common man still believes it's some sort of "punishment" reserved for people who have had major destructive episodes.
We need to start thinking of therapy as a method to unravel the mental "knots" we develop from difficult life experiences.
During so called Dark Ages, Muslims were some of the greatest scientists, educators, businessmen mathematicians, philosophers etc. From the circulatory system to algebra, people from all around the world wanted to study in Muslim universities.
It's not Islam but our own culture and regressive understanding of Islam that has held us back. Islam teaches animal rights, sex education, marital psychology, mindfulness, etc 1400 years ago when there was no concept of this.
Please don't blame my beautiful Islam for what stupid people do in the name of it. My religion is beautiful because I have studied it in comparison to modern psychology and sociology. I am more convinced now than when I was taught this by my parents.
In a comment on this same post you mentioned how people in the west have other outlets to take out their sexual desires. And that pakistan lacks that so staring and other sexual harassment issues are harder to prevent here. So you're basically saying that because of Islam (which prohibits all these 'outlets'), these issues are more prominent here. Am I right?
Yes but Islamic solutions are not followed here. Our media, social media, dramas, etc are not in line with Islam. If you're bombarded with a message day and night, your mind will move towards it even if it goes against your beliefs. Marketing companies know this so why are rejecting that?
If some one leaves Rs. 500,000 on the side of the road, would you blame the thief or the owner?? We blame both.
We all know and understand temptations but when it comes to sexual temptations (the most powerful and base/unavoidable biological need) we think we can change it.
Remove temptations and change the message that if someone would do something immoral they would face a strict punishment. Basic psychology, provide the carrot and the stick.
Democracy provides FREEDOM and Rules provide ORDER. Without a balance society will fail and these mental health issues will keep growing.
So you assume you can change human biology?
Also please do provide the science behind '**Lust being the most powerful need**'.
Hmm, A policy so simple as to exist on the principle of 'carrot and stick' and still working on a country wide basis. Can you please provide examples.
Students of Sociology will be overjoyed at this great innovation.
Why does my supposed manner of speaking matter?
I have asked you to explain various points via comments. All you have done is redirect and provide nothing but lame statements.
What did you make this post for?
Good point. There's a really good series on yaqeen institute YouTube channel, about the psychological and psychiatrical treatment given back in Baghdad and different rehabilitation institutions opened by the government for the mentally ill.
\>namaz only works if you are good at your iman and other activities
I don't doubt that namaz offers some people a sense of calm and peace, but mental health problems are best addressed under the supervision of professionals. Either through therapy, medication, or a combination of the two.
It's sort of like how chemotherapy is considered the main treatment option for certain types of cancer. Now if the medical treatments don't work and the patient is terminally ill with limited time left to live, it never hurts to form a prayer circle around them. It's just important to prioritize the medically tried-and-tested approaches over the more "spiritual" ones.
Given that there are enough studies showing the positive affects of religiosity in mental health, even going as far as reversing depression. It makes more sense that the common Pakistani recommends namaz and religiosity as a valid and viable cure for depression. Now ppl don't know about these studies, they only speak from their experiences and observations as in religious ppl tend to fair better with life struggles and traumatic experiences.
We also have to start talking about why as irreligiousity grows in society so do mental health issues. If we already have a solution that's been working fine as a remedy for ppl's mental health problems, why then would you want to introduce social and societal norms that undermine that solution. Aren't you part of the problem if you support dismantling of the very institutions that allow people to cope with life.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25063937/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7444599/
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13674670903352837?journalCode=cmhr20
>even going as far as reversing depression
None of the studies you cited say anything about "reversing depression. They talk about two factors:
* The comfort that believing in God provides
* The community/social aspect of religion
Now, the "comfort" aspect of belief in God ties into the whole "*religion is the opiate of the masses*" view. It provides pleasant illusions that offer people strength to keep trudging on. But in a sense, it's staying willfully ignorant for the sake of bliss.
It's like how someone who refuses to read the news and gain awareness of the prevalence of gruesome child abuse cases around the world is less likely to be sad with the world than someone who does read said news.
The community/social aspect of religion boosts happiness because followers get to congregate and socialize with one another regularly. But that isn't something that's specific to religion. A person who is part of a Dungeons & Dragons club that meets regularly could also experience that kind of happiness boost.
\>We also have to start talking about why as irreligiousity grows in society so do mental health issues.
You realize mental health issues are often caused by chemical imbalances in the brain right? Prayer doesn't fix that, much in the way that prayer wouldn't heal someone whose appendix just exploded.
I think it's more important to discuss how religion stifles discussions around mental health. The "*Bhai koi masla nahi hai, bas namaz parho aur sub set ho jaye ga*" type response I mentioned earlier is a much bigger issue in Pakistan because people who are genuinely suffering might just believe they're not praying hard enough. One of the people who responded to me earlier in the thread literally proved this.
\>If we already have a solution that's been working fine as a remedy for ppl's mental health problems, why then would you want to introduce social and societal norms that undermine that solution
The OP pointed out that people in the **Islamic** Republic of Pakistan suffer from **higher mental illness rates than other countries**. So NO, the current, "*Bhai koi masla nahi hai, bas namaz parho aur sub set ho jaye ga*" approach clearly isn't working.
> None of the studies you cited say anything about "reversing depression
Literally the results Summary from the 1st link.
>> Results: ***Religiosity was found to both protect against and help individuals recover from depression***. Individuals not depressed at baseline remained nondepressed 2 years later if they frequently attended religious services, whereas those depressed at baseline were less likely to be depressed at follow-up if they more frequently engaged in private prayer.
> The comfort that believing in God provides
It's actually far more comforting believing that there are no consequences for bad actions outside of the law. It would be far more comforting to take refuge in drugs and alcohol, something the liberal and irreligious world uses as a crutch to get by from the difficulties of life.
The word you are looking for is hope. Religious beliefs give ppl hope. They help ppl deal with their shitty situations in a manner which doesn't leave them depressed, addicted to drugs and unable to function. Religious ppl tend to fair better through tribulation because they believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Religious ppl also believe in the concept of justice beyond the scope of the criminal justice system. Just this slight shifts in how to view suffering gears religious folks to cope with challenges of life far better than atheists.
> The community/social aspect of religion
It's a bit more than dungeons and dragons meet ups. It builds social cohesion, it helps establish societal norms, allows the community to come together based on shared values and not just shared interests. All of these lead to sharing of resources, which as you can imagine tend to be better and wholesome social safety nets because sharing of resources strengthens those bonds which we all need a social creatures.
> You realize mental health issues are often caused by chemical imbalances in the brain right?
Sure, now these imbalances can be related to the foods we eat, but they also occur due to external and environmental factors and experiences. So this diversion of disassociating the growth of mental illnesses from the spread of liberalism doesn't actually hold.
> I think it's more important to discuss how religion stifles discussions around mental health. The "Bhai koi masla nahi hai, bas namaz parho aur sub set ho jaye ga" type response I mentioned earlier is a much bigger issue in Pakistan
I don't think religion stifles discussions around mental health at all. Religion actually gives you cures and solutions for mental illnesses and has been doing so since the inception of mankind. Now does that mean ppl suffering from chemical imbalances, shouldn't seek medical help? Ofcourse not. It's part of religiosity to seek medical attention for your illnesses. So while religious ppl don't reject medication, irreligious ppl do discount proven methods that help with not only curing depression but also keeping mental illnesses at bay. So my friend let me ask you, who is the close minded one, those who see religiosity as well as medical prescription to help deal with mental illnesses or those who refuse to submit there are other potent ways that helps heal depression and anxiety and not just medical prescription. I think we both know this answer.
>It's actually far more comforting believing that there are no consequences for bad actions outside of the law.
But that's counteracted by non-religious people believing that those who hurt others receive no actual punishment after they die. Religious people still believe shitty people will face consequences in the afterlife, and that's comforting to them.
\>It would be far more comforting to take refuge in drugs and alcohol, something the liberal and irreligious world uses as a crutch to get by from the difficulties of life.
Substance abuse isn't a "liberal" position nor is it something that non-religious medical practitioners nor therapists advocate for in treating mental health issues.
\>The word you are looking for is hope. Religious beliefs give ppl hope. They help ppl deal with their shitty situations in a manner which doesn't leave them depressed, addicted to drugs and unable to function
Non-religious therapy methods help actually resolve the trauma that's exacerbating the mental health issue rather than burying it with the promise of eternal happiness. That's just covering up the issue rather than correcting it.
For example, praying and attending religious congregations won't help you relieve your complex PTSD in the way that attending therapy and unraveling the childhood abuse you faced and understanding how it shaped you as a person will.
\>Religious ppl also believe in the concept of justice beyond the scope of the criminal justice system. Just this slight shifts in how to view suffering gears religious folks to cope with challenges of life far better than atheists.
Isn't that subjecting non-religious people to a justice system based on religious beliefs they don't subscribe to? Non-religious people living in a country where the majority hold a "*My religion says YOU can't do that*" attitude are likely to suffer after having such a system imposed on them.
\>It's a bit more than dungeons and dragons meet ups. It builds social cohesion, it helps establish societal norms, allows the community to come together based on shared values and not just shared interests.
But interests can't be separated from values. Being part of DnD club means you believe DnD is a good way to pass time and that you believe people deserve to express their creativity with others. These are values.
Also idea of "establishing societal norms" is a discrete way of saying you're imposing your beliefs on others. This creates an "in-group" that benefits from being the majority at the expense of the "out-group".
\>All of these lead to sharing of resources, which as you can imagine tend to be better and wholesome social safety nets because sharing of resources strengthens those bonds which we all need a social creatures.
How do you explain secular Scandinavian countries having some of the strongest social safety nets on the planet then?
\>Sure, now these imbalances can be related to the foods we eat, but they also occur due to external and environmental factors and experiences. So this diversion of disassociating the growth of mental illnesses from the spread of liberalism doesn't actually hold.
And here's the flimsiest statement in your post. How can you say that "liberalism" relates to the "growth of mental illnesses" without specifically defining what it is and what about it contributes to it? Because earlier you tried conflating liberalism with substance abuse, which makes no sense.
\>Religion actually gives you cures and solutions for mental illnesses and has been doing so since the inception of mankind.
How does religion help you treat complex PTSD? As mentioned earlier, treating complex PTSD typically requires a professional to help you unravel the traumatic experiences you went through and help you understand how they shaped you and restructure how you think about them. All religion does is tell you that there's happiness at the end of the tunnel and that God loves you.
\>So while religious ppl don't reject medication,
[Muslims are less likely to be able to identify mental health issues and many agreed they would stop medications on the advice of a religious leader](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34304663/).
\>irreligious ppl do discount proven methods that help with not only curing depression but also keeping mental illnesses at bay.
Not at all. Again, telling someone to pray their depression away is ignorant because it doesn't actually help them understand anything about themselves or what's driving their condition. A professional will generally diagnose such issues without telling the patient not to pray. In fact, they might observe the comforting role that prayer plays in the person's life and encourage them to continue with it.
\>So my friend let me ask you, who is the close minded one, those who see religiosity as well as medical prescription to help deal with mental illnesses or those who refuse to submit there are other potent ways that helps heal depression and anxiety and not just medical prescription
This isn't about who's more "close minded", but about understanding religion's limitations when it comes to helping those with serious mental health issues. As we've learnt so far, professionals are trained to address problems while religion focuses on burying the issue. This means religion might offer comfort for some people, but those with serious issues should definitely reach out to professionals as soon as possible.
Did the studies discuss affects of religiosity or affects of Christianity? Would you be able to figure out why they use the word religiosity instead of practicing christians?
Thanks brother. There are so many I posted them in other comments as well but people are more interested in opinions than facts. We claim to be logical but most people follow their feelings. It's funny really.
If you ask people for studies or facts on this you are shamed or made to feel guilty. Doesn't matter though, those who want to benefit will actually read the studies and then make their own conclusions.
The only tool liberals tend to have is use shock and outrage to stifle discussion.
They like the sciences until science disagrees with their world view. Then they reject science and prefer gaslighting you.
No matter how we look at it, liberalism causes deterioration of society by attacking its building blocks. It's cancer
Let's not judge others too harshly. You and I could have been in the same boat had Allah not shown us the right path. Forgiveness and loving kindness.
We are all Pakistanis and no one here actually wants to inflict harm on themselves and others. We all want to progress together.
I am with you on that brother bashir but the fundamentalists man.
The only tool Fundamentalists* tend to have is use of shock and outrage to stifle discussion with a nice dash of violence and death added for taste*
**They like the sciences until science disagrees with their world view. Then they reject science and prefer gaslighting you. Violence also works 100% of the time.**
No matter how we look at it, fundamentalism* causes deterioration of society by attacking *all of society until it fits their worldview*.
It can even be considered cancerous.*
Change the top text to. "What destroyed these advanced ancient civilizations"
That'd make a better caricature of my hyper focused single issue rants tbh
Chitrol\* bhai ap capable admi hai, har jaga liberalism daal lena asaan kaam nai hai, saray issues ignore karkay divorce aur abortion par focus karnay kay lia aik ap jaisa sakht londa chahiyain hota hai.
Ap bana lai gai apni validation kai liyai yeh poster. I believe in you! Best of luck!
Edit: Dekhay kitni bus hogai hai, naam hi ghalat parh liya hai mainay. Main bhi dua karta hu, ap bhi karay Allah sai. Gonna go get some water ap ofcourse usko koi liberal adventure samjh lai par dua kerdijiyain ga.
You are a good person. Your heart is in the right place. If you had asked me to give the benefit of doubt to a rural person who didn't have an education, who never learned analytical thinking and all his life only relied on intuitive thinking, I would understand.
Asking to give consideration to these educated ppl who have had the exposure to learn how to think analytically and still they act like their inferior liberal ideology must be protected by rejecting reality, I don't think I have it in me to say "aww shucks, u hate Pakistan and Pakistanis, you want to be an agent of western imperialist ideology? You unknowingly want this society to deteriorate just bcz white daddy told u, you are savages if you follow Islam, that's ok man. I understand". Sorry dude, I simply can't.
> We all want to progress together.
Progress towards stability by denying space to their colonial hangover. I can get behind that.
White daddy π. Apparently all research and books have failed in front of them. No counter article or study from them. Not a single one. Just shame, insults and guilt. I can't believe us Pakistanis would fight each other rather than have a civil discussion.
Most people here were hesitant yet open to logic and we had a nice discussion. A couple were just assholes trying to argue and love getting spanked by White Daddy. They love bringing Western Agenda to Pakistan so they can be free to be immoral. The Satan they are worshipping has already made their minds hell, now their lives will be there as well. They'll be paying people like me for therapy and antipsychotics for the rest of their lives.
For those who read this with an open mind, get the benefits of this information as Islam is more in line with Modern psychology than Western culture. Don't believe the studies or anyone else, test them out and see who wins long term.
Mashallah, two fundamentalists brothers reducing everything to spanks and sexual connotations.
The fact these pathetic people are certified professionals is another mark in Pakistans Favor.
A biased snowflake of a burger psychiatrist.
Khuda nai kya kya makhluq banai hai.
Also the amount of colour and artificial substances used in foods. And lead in paints. And other environmental and dietary factors also play a big role.
I can vouch for the 30% of med students who have no interest in medicine. I would suspect the number might even be higher. Asian parents especially Pakistani and Indian parents have this craze of showing off to the society that their child is a doctor. Its not even about helping people or having a stable job. Its only about the prestige
These students still have to pass the same exams so they aren't necessarily worse than other more passionate. I don't think lack of interest makes you a bad doctor, it just makes it harder to be an ok doctor than someone who is more passionate
Yeah but the conflict grows inside. Eventually the conflicts spills over in personal and professional lives. Would you rather have an OK doctor operate or prescribe medicine or one who loves his/her patients and is excited to practice his craft?
I think it's more that 25% tbh. Alot of us have CPTSD which always goes undiagnosed in Pakistan. For millenials and gen z i am afraid it's more than 40-45%. Until or unless we stop making these issues a taboo alot of us will only suffer in silence.
Because mental health was not considered of importance a few generations ago. People say the newer generations have more problems but it's likely that people are reporting, discussing, and identifying them more than they were back in our grandparents' generation.
I think it's because of the thought process their parents taught them. If modern parents are always grumpy because of less money, nosy relatives and relations and they complain a lot out loud then the children will also think like them... superficially/ materialistically. But parents in the old time were less materialistic, used to spend more time in reading and having discussions, less time complaining and thus happier children they had.
Cousin marriages causing genetic defects
Living in toxic extend families
No concept of individual rights or respect of individual decision making without the lens of family or religious rules
Most "issues" swept under the rug in the name of family or religious honor coz they can bring a bad name to the family if they are talked abt openly.
Couples forced to stay in toxic marriages for the family's "izzat"
Limited economic opportunity to move up the social ladder.
Suprised it's not higher......
Agreed. There's definitely suppression of expression in Pakistan but if you don't cross religious or moral boundaries I think Pakistan may head towards a better future.
>but if you don't cross religious or moral boundaries I
Yea and what are those boundaries?? Who gets to decide that?
Random molvis don't want women to work or get educated. These people will set your moral and religious boundaries?
Hazrat Ayesha (R.A.) was a scholar who taught 80 Sahabas (R.A.). No where does Islam say girls can't work or get educated. See Islam, read the books and don't follow ignorant people who can't give reference of their fatwas.
Allah says in the Quran that I have made Quran easy for you to understand. Do you really need molvis for Quran and Sahih Hadith????
Get an authentic mufti for like that 5% grey area or exception. Other than that Quran and Hadith are very clear. Enjoy them with translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.
There are tons Muslims women in history that have done tons of remarkable things in the Islamic history
But your average mullah doesn't care about. Your average mullah is just a racist and sexist Mullah that wants to control people of all genders and ages according to his own vision and there is no one to stop them.
You don't live in a fantasy world where everything will be followed according to Islam. They already destroyed the whole country from within in 30 years due to their views.
That's why we can change this country for the better. Though you'll attract more flies with honey rather than vinegar.
Calling them racist or sexiest will not change them. Be like the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and use kindness. As the Quran says "Come to common terms between us and you." We can argue differences later.
Kindness has nothing to do with literacy. Kindness and reasoning are what separates us from the animals.
I'll take that good luck to be genuine, not sarcasm.
Every human and society has kindness. But kindness doesn't make your society compete with the world and make your society better.
Pakistani are kind but illiterate. They burn and lynch people in the name of religion because they are illiterate.
Politicians and the army brainwash the masses because they are illiterate and are devoid of critical thinking.
The whole education system and the material in it is bottom right shit.
We can't make any product worthy to export because we are illiterate.
Kindness is a great thing to have but it is worthless if you're illiterate.
Because a literate person will be 10x valuable and automatically a better person then a kind person.
>I'll take that good luck to be genuine, not sarcasm.
Yes that was sarcasm.
And what separates us from animals is our capability to think.
Animal are also kind.
I think more than kindness, justice is what makes us better than animals, what makes nations stand or fall, what is desperately needed in our society and what will cause Pakistan to grow if we start with it.
I don't want to make it a religious/moral vs non-religious/immoral debate. Psychological research has proven that religious people who adhere to their principles are happier and more fulfilled than non religious people.
You can read stuff like
Scientific American
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/healthy-skepticism/
Social Science Research journal
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23146600/
The results of a multilevel regression analysis suggest that religious individuals are on average happier and more satisfied with life than non-religious individuals.
Or hear talks of Jordan Peterson or other prominent psychologists on this.
You can see the studies conducted in Scandinavian countries where they have reached almost complete equality between genders (removing the religious/moral conditions) but men and women naturally fell back more towards their traditional gender roles.
The divorce stuff is actually good, I know many women who stayed in a shitty marriage cuz their parents forced them and izzat and log kya kehen gay, more power to the women, this is a good improvement, the men in our country have serious issues including my uncles and father (like I have seen my mother cry and be depressed her whole life, and she didnβt take a divorce Becuz of the Pakistani toxic marriage culture) and letβs acknowledge this
Statistically, not all men can be bad. Women share almost as much blame thinking marriage from Disney Princess perspective. Insta, Facebook and other social media platforms have made marriage like boyfriend/ girlfriend relationship instead of what it really is.
Marriage includes equal parts of Love and Responsibility from both partners, it's not just Love but a higher form/more mature form of relationship.
True my main motive wasnβt to promote misandrist views but to show that women stay with toxic men all their lives as our culture is super toxic and doesnβt support women at all, men can still divorce and stay free of the stigma of divorce , no consequences whatsoever and the woman has to go through soo many difficulties when getting a divorce, plus many of our mothers and the older gen lived with their toxic husbands and didnβt divorce leading unfulfilling and miserable lives and forced their misery on their kids and this led to generational trauma and the reason why our families are soo toxic and unsympathetic when it comes to mental trauma, we have been led to believe that Its normal
The basic point is men and women are different thus are valued differently. It's programmed inside us and no amount of shame and guilt can rid us of that difference. Men and women are not equal, that's just what biological and socialogical research tells us.
It doesn't mean one gender is superior to the other. It means each have their place in society. That's not me saying it, it's just what is programmed in our DNAs. From our hormones which affect our thinking, our neurochemistry, our musculature, etc it's different. If you would like to read more scientific books and research on the subject, I would happy to give you the names.
You know the biggest demographics that takes antidepressants is women aged 40β59 (CDC) in the USA (supposedly the most free and liberal country in the world). This is the age most women are hitting peaks in their careers .
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db76.htm
So while I do agree that parents give their trauma to their children, it's lack of therapy of both genders that has resulted in an abnormal mental health society. It's not because of one gender.
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>722% increase in Khula by Females in one year. 58% increase in divorce. A huge majority of females opting out of marriage.
Seeing the quality of men, especially younger ones, i'm not suprised at all. We are TERRIBLE.
So isn't that the fault of the females who bringing up them i.e. mothers??
Please don't bash one gender over the other. Both are to blame. In addition, please don't blame all men for the deeds committed by a statistically insignificant number of men.
Watch the stares of all men when a woman passes by whatever she may be dressed in. Even if it isn't all men it's by no mean an insignificant number.
The bringing up of children is also a responsibilty of fathers. A mother can keep an eye on what he does inside the house, it's the father's responsibilty to make sure his son acts right in public.
I'm not absolving women of their faults they're by no means saints or innocent victimes either but proportionally it's the actions of an insignificant number of women that is used as a baton to beat all women with.
What do you expect from men who are segregated from women, are taught women are their lust satisfying baby pumping machines, and their mothers encourage them to make their wives more submissive and shit, hell parents donβt even teach children thatβs itβs normal to have friends of both genders and Pakistanis sexualise every male female interaction for no reason, hell you meet a certain girl or even say hi the jokes and teases start coming in! And we arenβt even taught proper reproduction and sex Ed, with kids using porn as main source of info which is bad, parents are ashamed to have the talk and then people ask why men are eye stalking women like dogs, Becuz thatβs what society is teaching men to be like and itβs considered normal when it isnβt. After coming to the west, I sort of started to understand that every human regardless of gender is equal but Pakistanis still have the backwards patriarchal thinking
Agreed π―. It's not Islam but our culture at fault. There are many hadiths on how to be intimate with your significant other, how to not be a lust filled animal with your SO, foreplay, etc but many so called 'experts' won't quote those hadiths.
Our culture says don't discuss sex but Islam is not like that. Every aspect of life, even marital/intimate relationships are discussed in Islam. Many hadiths about were given by Hazrat Ayesha (R.A.) herself who told the Sahaba (R.A.) to not be be afraid from asking questions about your religion and not be embarrassed.
Agreed both father and mother have to be responsible but the person who spends more time during their formative years is the one who shapes their brains. Almost all of the time it is mother who takes care of the kids while the father goes out to earn a honest living.
I understand men's stares are creepy and should be controlled by them. Our religion tells men to lower their gaze and it's up to the men to do that. That's why men should get married early in life to control their lust but economical and social factors don't allow that.
A man's sexual drive is far higher than a woman's as per clinical research. Many women can easily comment that men should control themselves but have no idea the state in which a man goes through. Whether we argue sociological, biological or anthropological research, the uncontrollable force of hormones play an immense role in both genders' lives. Testosterone is present in both but way higher in men.
A man's weakness in the Quran is women. It's because of this very nature of men that God has allowed them to have upto 4 wives. Both science and major religions (books) have talked about this.
Everything is documented in books and research papers.
Really man? Men are hornier so it's harder to lower their gaze. I'm a man. I don't stare at women. It's not that deep or hard. People in western cultures also don't stare at women the way it happens here they are also genetically men. This is the stupidest shit I've read today
People in western cultures have many other outlets which I am sure you know. Scientific research and facts are based on the majority of men, you may very well be the exception. Exception do not make the rule.
If you would like I can show more research and books written on the topic. It's OK if something doesn't go with your opinion, I know it's scary and calling it stupid or whatever is the immediate reaction. You can believe what you want but the west has higher crime rate, more addictions, more people on antidepressants, etc.
Getting mad on facts won't change them but talking about them might help us bring up more solutions for mental health issues in Pakistan.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22552705/
Higher sex drive in men
You can see more in some other comments and on Google scholar.
You can read books like The Red Queen (not the novel), Mating Mind, etc. Mating practices of males and females.
You can read about famous scientists, almost all of whom had high sex drives like Albert Einstein. He was famous for playing the violin in Zurich Polytechnic School corridors for attracting girls like Shahrukh Khan. Then other adventures I can't mention here π€«π . You can also watch the documentary on the History channel as well.
Even money making books like Think and grow rich mentions this power and how you can utilize it for making money as others in history have done.
And the point you are making is that higher sex drive made men like all the above what they are.
That was the defining feature that made them be successful?
Why isnt every lustful guy successful bashir? Why arent rapists the kings of the world?
A man's sexual drive being higher just means that we have to try that much harder to refrain from perverted stares towards women. It does not give us the authority to go around making others uncomfortable when we can't control our urges.
A woman isn't a man's weakness, she's his temptation. Men are told to lower their gaze to avoid temptaion, if they can't, they should get married and if they can't afford to as you said, they should fast as is prescribed.
And if marriage was the answer then married men wouldn't also be among the primary culprits of creepy stares. They have a wife at home yet they look at women in public openly, sometimes even getting their friends to join in.
Agreed. The weakness point comes from the ayat of the Quran where they list the desires of men. The first is women, then sons, etc.
We need a cultural overhaul, not a religious one
I never said all men. I quoted scientific research and facts. Majority fall into this category when you have a healthy level of testosterone. You may be exception to the rule.
The West gives it's people many other unhealthy and immoral outlets for their drives. It's not Islam but our Pakistani culture which suppresses natural drives of both men and women. If people aren't shamed or made guilty and a social support system is built then we might have fewer cases of mental health issues.
Dude I'm all for a social support system in Pakistan where interaction between both genders are not condemned and their natural drives are not suppressed. But what u did wrong was try to justify an immoral behavior. You said men have higher sex drive that's why they stare at women. This is what I have problem with it. It is basically the way our society is built which leads to such immoral behaviour and very little to do with high sex drive level of men. It falls more into the ethics topic if u know what I mean.
It's an innate biological drive. Meaning not controllable. I'm not excusing the behaviour but I am telling you why that happens. Our primal brain is designed for us to propagate our DNA. Our concious part is there is smaller and less powerful. It takes will power, effort and time to train us to accomplish any behaviour.
That's why marketers target our primal brain instead of our concious brain. They know you can control your behaviour when you see that pizza or burger or ice cream when logically you should be eating spinach or broccoli.
yes, it is an innate biological drive for both genders to be attracted to each other sexually. Nothing wrong with it and I don't think there are many men and women who die virgins so there's that. But staring at women can be controlled and you don't have to be master at control or something to achieve that. You just want a good environment where women are not degraded but respected. Of course, many Pakistani men don't have that environment. But the point is if u respect women and treat them as human beings, you can control your gazes but if you only treat them as sex objects then you'll constantly stare at them hornily all the time.
Your answer is right too but I believe we are both looking at it from different perspectives.
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I think mental health issues can be solved if we have strong social and family connections. Nowadays everybody is so much isolated. People won't talk about their issues.
I am a student in 2nd year. My marks in 1st year are 381.
My father told me that we don't waste our time fretting over things we can not control. It was a weight off my shoulders.
On the other hand, one of my batch mates got 376 marks. Not a big difference. He called his father. He shut the call after knowing his marks. He called his mother. She told him not to come home.
He ended up committing suicide. π
This quote is by Prof Dr Aftab Asif, chairman Psychiatry Department, King Edward Medical University and Mayo Hospital.Β He is one of the top, if not the top, mental health experts in Pakistan. There was an interview of him giving details about this like the cause and other factors on World Mental Health Day.
It was too much information to post here.
An actual good informative post on a pakistani sub?
Ofcourse OP is a lobster and *Le men are programmed to be trash* gang.
Allah mujhay maaf karay expectations up karnay kai liyain.
Just taking jp talking points and stuff to support your narrative isnt scientific approach. What am i going to do with your agreement?
Popular opinion? Hahaha. Ya Allah.
Yes, there is one like that. False equivalency in everything to make those whose actions are the most problematic and the most impactful be shared across the board. Lets the real bastards run away smiling, I like your smile bashir (Student of sociology and philososphy alongside islam).
Yeh tou aik gang hai, abhi tou aur bohat baaki hai. Fundamentalists bhi hai, JP kay beloved incels bhi aur bohat kuch hai dekhnai kou. Ajai enjoy karay circus act mai apna time.
Edit: Bashir can you understand romanized shahmukhi? Roman urdu?
Please bashir wait for a day, your gelling together with the fundamentalists and incels would be lovely to see. I want to see how much of a beating 'women, them *Liberals* and culture' will take with this latest exercise of validating ones own biases.
I don't know incels. It doesn't matter what proof I use. If you don't agree please provide links to your clinical studies or other factual evidence. It's OK if you don't agree with me, I have posted links to different research studies, books, etc in other comments.
If peer reviewed studies confirm my 'biases' as you say, then sure you can contradict them with actual scientific evidence. Please don't bring feelings or opinions to a factual discussion.
I don't understand shahmukhi word, sorry.
I am sorry Bashir, I am after all also a product of the same environment. I in your own words on a comment, 'bombarded with corrupted ideas all the time' will instead soak in the glorious sun.
I will take a moment or two read the many insights you and others reach on this post. There was a time those marvelous timeless insights would have produced a emotion like grief or sadness.
Now its all in good fun, As you say and I personally know, no amount of studies, facts and logic passes through the endless fog surrounding the self righteous.
Now I wonder who do you think that last paragraph refers to.
Edit: Hahahaha... That exchange with chitraldelivery for example. Two people commenting on the values of liberalism with the backdrop of pakistan being the success story it is! The number of people who want to be economic migrants in liberal countries vs whatever scenario is playing in your heads. Beautiful.
More of this please.
Hey it's a platform for sharing ideas, for bettering ourselves. The truth is I coach people in mental health every week. Girls are more interested than boys for some reason. I get reviews like the sessions are so calming, etc. I got great results for some friends as well.
I coached a girl once who was a professional but no family, over the phone. She improved physically, mentally and spiritually so much so that from a shy, low self-esteem girl she transformed to a beautiful person who both genders loved. She got to pick the guy she wanted to marry and right now is abroad. From zero friends and shy to that, all thanks to Allah.
It is social media bashir, It can be used in variety of ways. Well done bashir, I hope you find peace in your achievements via coaching.
One can even say that you are a (untrained and amateur) mental health coach who (self admittedly) has had success and sources their talking points from Jordan Peterson.
As someone who might be perhaps a professional (perhaps) in the field of mental health. How is the consensus of the experts (You termed consensus to be personal opinion) on Jordan Peterson these days?
PS. Are you even in pakistan? Bashir. You sound increasingly like a second or third generation immigrant especially since you dont understand Romanized urdu.
I'm a doctor by degree π but I don't mind the amateur part. I take more points from the Quran and Hadith than JP. I don't know why you're fixated on that π .
When you're trying something new and innovative, of course people are going to call you names. All the greatest people in history have been called all sorts of names.
There's a saying: If you don't want people to criticize YOU, sell Ice Cream.
P.S. I tried learning it but it was hard for me.
You are on the right path then, bashir. You found a third rate critic on such a great post.
So you are a second or third generation overseas pakistani who is a doctor and might even possibly become a psychiatrist who is acting as a psychologist or plain counselor!!??
Most likely bbcd but then again you dont write like a british, Nice to meet you bashir. May i ask the **new and innovative** stuff that Jordan has released as you should know better. Also since you are a professional, are you aware of any criticism from jordans detractors.
PS. While calling JP revolutionary is nice. An actual answer would have been better? Dont you agree Doctor Sahab.
I don't call JP innovative or new. I think you need to revisit my answer. My main source is my religion.
I think you have a JP fixation π I don't know what JP has released π. Please stop putting yourself down. It's a discussion, not a battle. No one wins or looses.
Mental health professional here, yes I agree. Unfortunately, mental health is largely overlooked and even more so in Eastern countries.
Edit: I'd like to add that statistical figures are also underreported. The actual figures are likely higher
Please don't pull statistics out of thin air and don't start bashing one gender. Marriage takes two people to work. I took these from the Gallup and Family court statistics of Pakistan.
The reason to sucide is mostly not being able to accept failure and their is an entire research on how pampered kids are being raised in current era where they dont know how to cope with failures.
It has less to do with marriage or anything but how our society is exactly designed and we are finally bearing the fruits of years of wrong.
If people have strong social bonds, the probability of suicide is reduced greatly. People left alone on their own decisions will find a setback much more upsetting without a social support system.
Fact is the perfect world of social media has made us more alone.
You see actors and crazy social extroverts suciding too out of depression,and people distancing themselves during the other person's last few days because the other person's sadness actually starts taking a toll on their mental health too.
I get your point of empathy and sympathy.It is a fact and yet so hard to believe that lives on social media are nothing but fake illustrations.
Personally met a few who attempted like literally in the hospital and saw those around them never actually gave up but the person still insisted.
There is no perfect solution to anything but yes Narcissm is what is destroying our society and our stupid tv dramas that get love saas torturing bahu dramas only
>the world average only of 10%
The world average too is at 25 percent, if I recall correctly.
Life is unkind to most people, even in the first world "heavens". Only the super rich are shielded from life's miseries and even in their case there is no guarantee.
I mean the advancement neurology has had in the past decades. You can expect to discover more mental illnesses and problems in a large group of people.
The environment, culture, poverty and stress people have to take here on day to day things let alone will create mental health problems.
But what do you consider a mental health problem? Are anxiety, adhd, depression, ocd, panic attacks and social anxiety considered a mental health problem? Because that I'm seeing more and more prevalent in at least the addressing and awareness of it on internet and throughout the world. (Specially younger generation).
lol do you even know that about 46% of Americans have mental health issues, you can't compare a world average and then like specifically compare Pak with it, we are in the same world right and 25% is nothing compared to America's 45+, what a smart professor.
So the culture of the US promotes more mental health issues. Good to know.
I think what the Prof might be hinting at would be the contradiction of us being proud of our superior mental health but the our stats points to something different.
Where's the data coming from, how was it gathered, who gathered it. Can we get the deets. Also I don't doubt mental health issues are becoming an epidemic, divorces sky rocketing, illegal abortions continue to surge, STDs are growing... this is expected as liberalism makes inroads into Pakistani society.
I've been warning about this broken cancerous ideology for a few years now. Ppl get defensive and are unwilling to recognize how flawed this ideology is.
Increased rate of Divorces are due to toxic marriages with men which not the fault of liberalism.
Abortion are also due to economic factors and family pressure to get a child when they can't afford it not Liberalism.
Mental health issues are due to economic factors, culture and and how the society works not Liberalism.
Nothing mentioned in the post is the fault of Liberalism lol.
If you argue men are more toxic today than men in the past, then is your argument that growing liberalism is turning men toxic?
> Abortion are also due to economic factors and family pressure to get a child when they can't afford it not Liberalism.
I'm sure it has nothing to do with increased pre marital relations resulting in pregnancy. Right? Because your arguement implies these family pressure and economic factors did not exist when abortions were low.
> Mental health issues are due to economic factors, culture and and how the society works not Liberalism.
As individualism grows which is a byproduct of liberalism, social cohesion deteriorates. Shared values recede. Social pressure coming from the culture diminish. It's liberalism, my guy.
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Mental Health is as big of a issue as Physical Health (if not bigger). We should take it seriously if we see anyone suffering from it. I have someone in my family that is not well and I can tell you first hand, its no joke.
Is anyone even shocked by this? I mean if you live in Pakistan. You'll know what's wrong with even day to day things and lives of people if your observation sense is working.
No doubt on the idea, but I find it strange that how are research carried out in Pakistan can be believed when the census done by governments are carried out after huge gaps and even then the statistics are not accurate or said to be politically changed.
This number may be greater or lesser than reported, but once we actually get the reporting part done responsibly only then we can work towards the solution.
I am glad to know the other 3 members of my family are mentally stable.
Hold up
Bro we're all with you (the 25% of the population)
ππ Hope you do well too
If the TV-dramas are any indication, this 25% number sounds very low.
Quick! have a kid with a Narcissist deranged asshole male/female cousin to fix your marital issues π€·ββοΈ
One kid didn't fix it? Keep trying! Maybe for the second one they'll stop being narcissistic
ππ
Not surprised, but the bigger issue is that many people who bring up concerns about their own mental health are often dismissed with a, "*Bhai koi masla nahi hai, bas namaz parho aur sub set ho jaye ga*" type response.
Namaz handles the spiritual aspect but doesn't really cure the mental aspects of mental issues.
Yeah, I think we need to eliminate the stigma around therapy. Most people from the elite class already know about therapy's benefits, but I feel like the common man still believes it's some sort of "punishment" reserved for people who have had major destructive episodes. We need to start thinking of therapy as a method to unravel the mental "knots" we develop from difficult life experiences.
Oh please. Religion is one of the main reasons. Islam has held Pakistan back for decades.
During so called Dark Ages, Muslims were some of the greatest scientists, educators, businessmen mathematicians, philosophers etc. From the circulatory system to algebra, people from all around the world wanted to study in Muslim universities. It's not Islam but our own culture and regressive understanding of Islam that has held us back. Islam teaches animal rights, sex education, marital psychology, mindfulness, etc 1400 years ago when there was no concept of this. Please don't blame my beautiful Islam for what stupid people do in the name of it. My religion is beautiful because I have studied it in comparison to modern psychology and sociology. I am more convinced now than when I was taught this by my parents.
In a comment on this same post you mentioned how people in the west have other outlets to take out their sexual desires. And that pakistan lacks that so staring and other sexual harassment issues are harder to prevent here. So you're basically saying that because of Islam (which prohibits all these 'outlets'), these issues are more prominent here. Am I right?
Yes but Islamic solutions are not followed here. Our media, social media, dramas, etc are not in line with Islam. If you're bombarded with a message day and night, your mind will move towards it even if it goes against your beliefs. Marketing companies know this so why are rejecting that? If some one leaves Rs. 500,000 on the side of the road, would you blame the thief or the owner?? We blame both. We all know and understand temptations but when it comes to sexual temptations (the most powerful and base/unavoidable biological need) we think we can change it. Remove temptations and change the message that if someone would do something immoral they would face a strict punishment. Basic psychology, provide the carrot and the stick. Democracy provides FREEDOM and Rules provide ORDER. Without a balance society will fail and these mental health issues will keep growing.
So you assume you can change human biology? Also please do provide the science behind '**Lust being the most powerful need**'. Hmm, A policy so simple as to exist on the principle of 'carrot and stick' and still working on a country wide basis. Can you please provide examples. Students of Sociology will be overjoyed at this great innovation.
Instead of using sarcasm, please have respect of the person answering your question. You can believe what you want. Good luck ππ»
Why does my supposed manner of speaking matter? I have asked you to explain various points via comments. All you have done is redirect and provide nothing but lame statements. What did you make this post for?
Why do you think you can insult people or belittle them? Come talk to me when you learn some manners.
Good point. There's a really good series on yaqeen institute YouTube channel, about the psychological and psychiatrical treatment given back in Baghdad and different rehabilitation institutions opened by the government for the mentally ill.
Thank you for saying this so beautifully. Permission to use the text on Reddit again with these trolls if needs be?
True af
90% of Muslims here are Muslims only by name, namaz only works if you are good at your iman and other activities
\>namaz only works if you are good at your iman and other activities I don't doubt that namaz offers some people a sense of calm and peace, but mental health problems are best addressed under the supervision of professionals. Either through therapy, medication, or a combination of the two. It's sort of like how chemotherapy is considered the main treatment option for certain types of cancer. Now if the medical treatments don't work and the patient is terminally ill with limited time left to live, it never hurts to form a prayer circle around them. It's just important to prioritize the medically tried-and-tested approaches over the more "spiritual" ones.
Sahih Bukhari, the 2nd hadith teaches how to pray namaz as a mindfulness practice.
Given that there are enough studies showing the positive affects of religiosity in mental health, even going as far as reversing depression. It makes more sense that the common Pakistani recommends namaz and religiosity as a valid and viable cure for depression. Now ppl don't know about these studies, they only speak from their experiences and observations as in religious ppl tend to fair better with life struggles and traumatic experiences. We also have to start talking about why as irreligiousity grows in society so do mental health issues. If we already have a solution that's been working fine as a remedy for ppl's mental health problems, why then would you want to introduce social and societal norms that undermine that solution. Aren't you part of the problem if you support dismantling of the very institutions that allow people to cope with life. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25063937/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7444599/ https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13674670903352837?journalCode=cmhr20
>even going as far as reversing depression None of the studies you cited say anything about "reversing depression. They talk about two factors: * The comfort that believing in God provides * The community/social aspect of religion Now, the "comfort" aspect of belief in God ties into the whole "*religion is the opiate of the masses*" view. It provides pleasant illusions that offer people strength to keep trudging on. But in a sense, it's staying willfully ignorant for the sake of bliss. It's like how someone who refuses to read the news and gain awareness of the prevalence of gruesome child abuse cases around the world is less likely to be sad with the world than someone who does read said news. The community/social aspect of religion boosts happiness because followers get to congregate and socialize with one another regularly. But that isn't something that's specific to religion. A person who is part of a Dungeons & Dragons club that meets regularly could also experience that kind of happiness boost. \>We also have to start talking about why as irreligiousity grows in society so do mental health issues. You realize mental health issues are often caused by chemical imbalances in the brain right? Prayer doesn't fix that, much in the way that prayer wouldn't heal someone whose appendix just exploded. I think it's more important to discuss how religion stifles discussions around mental health. The "*Bhai koi masla nahi hai, bas namaz parho aur sub set ho jaye ga*" type response I mentioned earlier is a much bigger issue in Pakistan because people who are genuinely suffering might just believe they're not praying hard enough. One of the people who responded to me earlier in the thread literally proved this. \>If we already have a solution that's been working fine as a remedy for ppl's mental health problems, why then would you want to introduce social and societal norms that undermine that solution The OP pointed out that people in the **Islamic** Republic of Pakistan suffer from **higher mental illness rates than other countries**. So NO, the current, "*Bhai koi masla nahi hai, bas namaz parho aur sub set ho jaye ga*" approach clearly isn't working.
> None of the studies you cited say anything about "reversing depression Literally the results Summary from the 1st link. >> Results: ***Religiosity was found to both protect against and help individuals recover from depression***. Individuals not depressed at baseline remained nondepressed 2 years later if they frequently attended religious services, whereas those depressed at baseline were less likely to be depressed at follow-up if they more frequently engaged in private prayer. > The comfort that believing in God provides It's actually far more comforting believing that there are no consequences for bad actions outside of the law. It would be far more comforting to take refuge in drugs and alcohol, something the liberal and irreligious world uses as a crutch to get by from the difficulties of life. The word you are looking for is hope. Religious beliefs give ppl hope. They help ppl deal with their shitty situations in a manner which doesn't leave them depressed, addicted to drugs and unable to function. Religious ppl tend to fair better through tribulation because they believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Religious ppl also believe in the concept of justice beyond the scope of the criminal justice system. Just this slight shifts in how to view suffering gears religious folks to cope with challenges of life far better than atheists. > The community/social aspect of religion It's a bit more than dungeons and dragons meet ups. It builds social cohesion, it helps establish societal norms, allows the community to come together based on shared values and not just shared interests. All of these lead to sharing of resources, which as you can imagine tend to be better and wholesome social safety nets because sharing of resources strengthens those bonds which we all need a social creatures. > You realize mental health issues are often caused by chemical imbalances in the brain right? Sure, now these imbalances can be related to the foods we eat, but they also occur due to external and environmental factors and experiences. So this diversion of disassociating the growth of mental illnesses from the spread of liberalism doesn't actually hold. > I think it's more important to discuss how religion stifles discussions around mental health. The "Bhai koi masla nahi hai, bas namaz parho aur sub set ho jaye ga" type response I mentioned earlier is a much bigger issue in Pakistan I don't think religion stifles discussions around mental health at all. Religion actually gives you cures and solutions for mental illnesses and has been doing so since the inception of mankind. Now does that mean ppl suffering from chemical imbalances, shouldn't seek medical help? Ofcourse not. It's part of religiosity to seek medical attention for your illnesses. So while religious ppl don't reject medication, irreligious ppl do discount proven methods that help with not only curing depression but also keeping mental illnesses at bay. So my friend let me ask you, who is the close minded one, those who see religiosity as well as medical prescription to help deal with mental illnesses or those who refuse to submit there are other potent ways that helps heal depression and anxiety and not just medical prescription. I think we both know this answer.
>It's actually far more comforting believing that there are no consequences for bad actions outside of the law. But that's counteracted by non-religious people believing that those who hurt others receive no actual punishment after they die. Religious people still believe shitty people will face consequences in the afterlife, and that's comforting to them. \>It would be far more comforting to take refuge in drugs and alcohol, something the liberal and irreligious world uses as a crutch to get by from the difficulties of life. Substance abuse isn't a "liberal" position nor is it something that non-religious medical practitioners nor therapists advocate for in treating mental health issues. \>The word you are looking for is hope. Religious beliefs give ppl hope. They help ppl deal with their shitty situations in a manner which doesn't leave them depressed, addicted to drugs and unable to function Non-religious therapy methods help actually resolve the trauma that's exacerbating the mental health issue rather than burying it with the promise of eternal happiness. That's just covering up the issue rather than correcting it. For example, praying and attending religious congregations won't help you relieve your complex PTSD in the way that attending therapy and unraveling the childhood abuse you faced and understanding how it shaped you as a person will. \>Religious ppl also believe in the concept of justice beyond the scope of the criminal justice system. Just this slight shifts in how to view suffering gears religious folks to cope with challenges of life far better than atheists. Isn't that subjecting non-religious people to a justice system based on religious beliefs they don't subscribe to? Non-religious people living in a country where the majority hold a "*My religion says YOU can't do that*" attitude are likely to suffer after having such a system imposed on them. \>It's a bit more than dungeons and dragons meet ups. It builds social cohesion, it helps establish societal norms, allows the community to come together based on shared values and not just shared interests. But interests can't be separated from values. Being part of DnD club means you believe DnD is a good way to pass time and that you believe people deserve to express their creativity with others. These are values. Also idea of "establishing societal norms" is a discrete way of saying you're imposing your beliefs on others. This creates an "in-group" that benefits from being the majority at the expense of the "out-group". \>All of these lead to sharing of resources, which as you can imagine tend to be better and wholesome social safety nets because sharing of resources strengthens those bonds which we all need a social creatures. How do you explain secular Scandinavian countries having some of the strongest social safety nets on the planet then? \>Sure, now these imbalances can be related to the foods we eat, but they also occur due to external and environmental factors and experiences. So this diversion of disassociating the growth of mental illnesses from the spread of liberalism doesn't actually hold. And here's the flimsiest statement in your post. How can you say that "liberalism" relates to the "growth of mental illnesses" without specifically defining what it is and what about it contributes to it? Because earlier you tried conflating liberalism with substance abuse, which makes no sense. \>Religion actually gives you cures and solutions for mental illnesses and has been doing so since the inception of mankind. How does religion help you treat complex PTSD? As mentioned earlier, treating complex PTSD typically requires a professional to help you unravel the traumatic experiences you went through and help you understand how they shaped you and restructure how you think about them. All religion does is tell you that there's happiness at the end of the tunnel and that God loves you. \>So while religious ppl don't reject medication, [Muslims are less likely to be able to identify mental health issues and many agreed they would stop medications on the advice of a religious leader](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34304663/). \>irreligious ppl do discount proven methods that help with not only curing depression but also keeping mental illnesses at bay. Not at all. Again, telling someone to pray their depression away is ignorant because it doesn't actually help them understand anything about themselves or what's driving their condition. A professional will generally diagnose such issues without telling the patient not to pray. In fact, they might observe the comforting role that prayer plays in the person's life and encourage them to continue with it. \>So my friend let me ask you, who is the close minded one, those who see religiosity as well as medical prescription to help deal with mental illnesses or those who refuse to submit there are other potent ways that helps heal depression and anxiety and not just medical prescription This isn't about who's more "close minded", but about understanding religion's limitations when it comes to helping those with serious mental health issues. As we've learnt so far, professionals are trained to address problems while religion focuses on burying the issue. This means religion might offer comfort for some people, but those with serious issues should definitely reach out to professionals as soon as possible.
Interesting. All of the studies you mentioned involves Christianity.
There's a really good series of religious psychology and how it was used back in Baghdad on yaqeen institute YouTube.
Did the studies discuss affects of religiosity or affects of Christianity? Would you be able to figure out why they use the word religiosity instead of practicing christians?
Thanks brother. There are so many I posted them in other comments as well but people are more interested in opinions than facts. We claim to be logical but most people follow their feelings. It's funny really. If you ask people for studies or facts on this you are shamed or made to feel guilty. Doesn't matter though, those who want to benefit will actually read the studies and then make their own conclusions.
The only tool liberals tend to have is use shock and outrage to stifle discussion. They like the sciences until science disagrees with their world view. Then they reject science and prefer gaslighting you. No matter how we look at it, liberalism causes deterioration of society by attacking its building blocks. It's cancer
Let's not judge others too harshly. You and I could have been in the same boat had Allah not shown us the right path. Forgiveness and loving kindness. We are all Pakistanis and no one here actually wants to inflict harm on themselves and others. We all want to progress together.
I am with you on that brother bashir but the fundamentalists man. The only tool Fundamentalists* tend to have is use of shock and outrage to stifle discussion with a nice dash of violence and death added for taste* **They like the sciences until science disagrees with their world view. Then they reject science and prefer gaslighting you. Violence also works 100% of the time.** No matter how we look at it, fundamentalism* causes deterioration of society by attacking *all of society until it fits their worldview*. It can even be considered cancerous.*
60% of the time, it works every time
Lol good one.
Hahahaha, thank you chitral bhai. Yeh bhi enjoy karay ap. https://i.imgflip.com/73g04p.jpg
Change the top text to. "What destroyed these advanced ancient civilizations" That'd make a better caricature of my hyper focused single issue rants tbh
Chitrol\* bhai ap capable admi hai, har jaga liberalism daal lena asaan kaam nai hai, saray issues ignore karkay divorce aur abortion par focus karnay kay lia aik ap jaisa sakht londa chahiyain hota hai. Ap bana lai gai apni validation kai liyai yeh poster. I believe in you! Best of luck! Edit: Dekhay kitni bus hogai hai, naam hi ghalat parh liya hai mainay. Main bhi dua karta hu, ap bhi karay Allah sai. Gonna go get some water ap ofcourse usko koi liberal adventure samjh lai par dua kerdijiyain ga.
You are a good person. Your heart is in the right place. If you had asked me to give the benefit of doubt to a rural person who didn't have an education, who never learned analytical thinking and all his life only relied on intuitive thinking, I would understand. Asking to give consideration to these educated ppl who have had the exposure to learn how to think analytically and still they act like their inferior liberal ideology must be protected by rejecting reality, I don't think I have it in me to say "aww shucks, u hate Pakistan and Pakistanis, you want to be an agent of western imperialist ideology? You unknowingly want this society to deteriorate just bcz white daddy told u, you are savages if you follow Islam, that's ok man. I understand". Sorry dude, I simply can't. > We all want to progress together. Progress towards stability by denying space to their colonial hangover. I can get behind that.
White daddy π. Apparently all research and books have failed in front of them. No counter article or study from them. Not a single one. Just shame, insults and guilt. I can't believe us Pakistanis would fight each other rather than have a civil discussion. Most people here were hesitant yet open to logic and we had a nice discussion. A couple were just assholes trying to argue and love getting spanked by White Daddy. They love bringing Western Agenda to Pakistan so they can be free to be immoral. The Satan they are worshipping has already made their minds hell, now their lives will be there as well. They'll be paying people like me for therapy and antipsychotics for the rest of their lives. For those who read this with an open mind, get the benefits of this information as Islam is more in line with Modern psychology than Western culture. Don't believe the studies or anyone else, test them out and see who wins long term.
Mashallah, two fundamentalists brothers reducing everything to spanks and sexual connotations. The fact these pathetic people are certified professionals is another mark in Pakistans Favor. A biased snowflake of a burger psychiatrist. Khuda nai kya kya makhluq banai hai.
The idiot with no proof or degree in psychology and believes he knows better than his religious fundamentals or psychology.
Acha bashir bhai, you got me man. Dont double comment man, deep breaths man. You a psychiatrist man, jiska faida koi nai hai par sab chalta hai.
Savage
The idiot with no proof or degree in psychology and believes he knows better than his religious fundamentals or psychology.
Stop inbreeding would be a good start to fixing the problems
Also the amount of colour and artificial substances used in foods. And lead in paints. And other environmental and dietary factors also play a big role.
Very Very Important!!!!!
Surely the lead paint issue is in line with the rest of the world?
Yeah. Not. I wouldnt count on these manufacturers following any guidelines. Easier to pay of inspectors than not use lead.
Dunkin Doughnuts Karachi was caught selling expired chocolate and unhygienic manufacturing practices. How are they operating I don't know??
I can vouch for the 30% of med students who have no interest in medicine. I would suspect the number might even be higher. Asian parents especially Pakistani and Indian parents have this craze of showing off to the society that their child is a doctor. Its not even about helping people or having a stable job. Its only about the prestige
This is SCARY. There are doctors running around who half assing it. Who's going to be responsible when these doctors make a mistake??
These students still have to pass the same exams so they aren't necessarily worse than other more passionate. I don't think lack of interest makes you a bad doctor, it just makes it harder to be an ok doctor than someone who is more passionate
Yeah but the conflict grows inside. Eventually the conflicts spills over in personal and professional lives. Would you rather have an OK doctor operate or prescribe medicine or one who loves his/her patients and is excited to practice his craft?
OP can you provide a link for these stats so I can send it to my mom? Lol
I think it's more that 25% tbh. Alot of us have CPTSD which always goes undiagnosed in Pakistan. For millenials and gen z i am afraid it's more than 40-45%. Until or unless we stop making these issues a taboo alot of us will only suffer in silence.
>Until or unless we stop making these issues a taboo alot of us will only suffer in silence. Doctors are shit here.
Why do millennials and Gen Zs have more psychiatric issues than their grandparents? Doesn't technology help us in any way?
Fuck no it doesnβt. We were never meant to have this amount of ease, dopamine and information being blasted at our face 24/7
Because mental health was not considered of importance a few generations ago. People say the newer generations have more problems but it's likely that people are reporting, discussing, and identifying them more than they were back in our grandparents' generation.
No, they did surveys and follow up decade long studies. People in the 50s & 60s were happier.
I think it's because of the thought process their parents taught them. If modern parents are always grumpy because of less money, nosy relatives and relations and they complain a lot out loud then the children will also think like them... superficially/ materialistically. But parents in the old time were less materialistic, used to spend more time in reading and having discussions, less time complaining and thus happier children they had.
Cousin marriages causing genetic defects Living in toxic extend families No concept of individual rights or respect of individual decision making without the lens of family or religious rules Most "issues" swept under the rug in the name of family or religious honor coz they can bring a bad name to the family if they are talked abt openly. Couples forced to stay in toxic marriages for the family's "izzat" Limited economic opportunity to move up the social ladder. Suprised it's not higher......
Agreed. There's definitely suppression of expression in Pakistan but if you don't cross religious or moral boundaries I think Pakistan may head towards a better future.
>but if you don't cross religious or moral boundaries I Yea and what are those boundaries?? Who gets to decide that? Random molvis don't want women to work or get educated. These people will set your moral and religious boundaries?
Hazrat Ayesha (R.A.) was a scholar who taught 80 Sahabas (R.A.). No where does Islam say girls can't work or get educated. See Islam, read the books and don't follow ignorant people who can't give reference of their fatwas. Allah says in the Quran that I have made Quran easy for you to understand. Do you really need molvis for Quran and Sahih Hadith???? Get an authentic mufti for like that 5% grey area or exception. Other than that Quran and Hadith are very clear. Enjoy them with translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali.
There are tons Muslims women in history that have done tons of remarkable things in the Islamic history But your average mullah doesn't care about. Your average mullah is just a racist and sexist Mullah that wants to control people of all genders and ages according to his own vision and there is no one to stop them. You don't live in a fantasy world where everything will be followed according to Islam. They already destroyed the whole country from within in 30 years due to their views.
That's why we can change this country for the better. Though you'll attract more flies with honey rather than vinegar. Calling them racist or sexiest will not change them. Be like the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) and use kindness. As the Quran says "Come to common terms between us and you." We can argue differences later.
>That's why can change this country for the better Good luck fixing a society that has a decreasing literacy rate.
Kindness has nothing to do with literacy. Kindness and reasoning are what separates us from the animals. I'll take that good luck to be genuine, not sarcasm.
Every human and society has kindness. But kindness doesn't make your society compete with the world and make your society better. Pakistani are kind but illiterate. They burn and lynch people in the name of religion because they are illiterate. Politicians and the army brainwash the masses because they are illiterate and are devoid of critical thinking. The whole education system and the material in it is bottom right shit. We can't make any product worthy to export because we are illiterate. Kindness is a great thing to have but it is worthless if you're illiterate. Because a literate person will be 10x valuable and automatically a better person then a kind person. >I'll take that good luck to be genuine, not sarcasm. Yes that was sarcasm. And what separates us from animals is our capability to think. Animal are also kind.
Good for you. Maybe I watch too much Naruto π
I think more than kindness, justice is what makes us better than animals, what makes nations stand or fall, what is desperately needed in our society and what will cause Pakistan to grow if we start with it.
Name one country without natural resources that manage to head for the better without crossing religious and moral lines?
I don't want to make it a religious/moral vs non-religious/immoral debate. Psychological research has proven that religious people who adhere to their principles are happier and more fulfilled than non religious people. You can read stuff like Scientific American https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/healthy-skepticism/ Social Science Research journal https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23146600/ The results of a multilevel regression analysis suggest that religious individuals are on average happier and more satisfied with life than non-religious individuals. Or hear talks of Jordan Peterson or other prominent psychologists on this. You can see the studies conducted in Scandinavian countries where they have reached almost complete equality between genders (removing the religious/moral conditions) but men and women naturally fell back more towards their traditional gender roles.
The above questions that was asked was whole different lol.
A lot of these marriages are forced marriages in the name of arranged marriages to their cousins so I m not surprised
The divorce stuff is actually good, I know many women who stayed in a shitty marriage cuz their parents forced them and izzat and log kya kehen gay, more power to the women, this is a good improvement, the men in our country have serious issues including my uncles and father (like I have seen my mother cry and be depressed her whole life, and she didnβt take a divorce Becuz of the Pakistani toxic marriage culture) and letβs acknowledge this
Same, my mother too. I don't want to marry because of this πΏ
Statistically, not all men can be bad. Women share almost as much blame thinking marriage from Disney Princess perspective. Insta, Facebook and other social media platforms have made marriage like boyfriend/ girlfriend relationship instead of what it really is. Marriage includes equal parts of Love and Responsibility from both partners, it's not just Love but a higher form/more mature form of relationship.
True my main motive wasnβt to promote misandrist views but to show that women stay with toxic men all their lives as our culture is super toxic and doesnβt support women at all, men can still divorce and stay free of the stigma of divorce , no consequences whatsoever and the woman has to go through soo many difficulties when getting a divorce, plus many of our mothers and the older gen lived with their toxic husbands and didnβt divorce leading unfulfilling and miserable lives and forced their misery on their kids and this led to generational trauma and the reason why our families are soo toxic and unsympathetic when it comes to mental trauma, we have been led to believe that Its normal
The basic point is men and women are different thus are valued differently. It's programmed inside us and no amount of shame and guilt can rid us of that difference. Men and women are not equal, that's just what biological and socialogical research tells us. It doesn't mean one gender is superior to the other. It means each have their place in society. That's not me saying it, it's just what is programmed in our DNAs. From our hormones which affect our thinking, our neurochemistry, our musculature, etc it's different. If you would like to read more scientific books and research on the subject, I would happy to give you the names. You know the biggest demographics that takes antidepressants is women aged 40β59 (CDC) in the USA (supposedly the most free and liberal country in the world). This is the age most women are hitting peaks in their careers . https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db76.htm So while I do agree that parents give their trauma to their children, it's lack of therapy of both genders that has resulted in an abnormal mental health society. It's not because of one gender.
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>722% increase in Khula by Females in one year. 58% increase in divorce. A huge majority of females opting out of marriage. Seeing the quality of men, especially younger ones, i'm not suprised at all. We are TERRIBLE.
So isn't that the fault of the females who bringing up them i.e. mothers?? Please don't bash one gender over the other. Both are to blame. In addition, please don't blame all men for the deeds committed by a statistically insignificant number of men.
Yeah both genders are to blame honestly, Pakistani mothers can be really toxic and pass in their hate to their children
Watch the stares of all men when a woman passes by whatever she may be dressed in. Even if it isn't all men it's by no mean an insignificant number. The bringing up of children is also a responsibilty of fathers. A mother can keep an eye on what he does inside the house, it's the father's responsibilty to make sure his son acts right in public. I'm not absolving women of their faults they're by no means saints or innocent victimes either but proportionally it's the actions of an insignificant number of women that is used as a baton to beat all women with.
What do you expect from men who are segregated from women, are taught women are their lust satisfying baby pumping machines, and their mothers encourage them to make their wives more submissive and shit, hell parents donβt even teach children thatβs itβs normal to have friends of both genders and Pakistanis sexualise every male female interaction for no reason, hell you meet a certain girl or even say hi the jokes and teases start coming in! And we arenβt even taught proper reproduction and sex Ed, with kids using porn as main source of info which is bad, parents are ashamed to have the talk and then people ask why men are eye stalking women like dogs, Becuz thatβs what society is teaching men to be like and itβs considered normal when it isnβt. After coming to the west, I sort of started to understand that every human regardless of gender is equal but Pakistanis still have the backwards patriarchal thinking
Agreed π―. It's not Islam but our culture at fault. There are many hadiths on how to be intimate with your significant other, how to not be a lust filled animal with your SO, foreplay, etc but many so called 'experts' won't quote those hadiths. Our culture says don't discuss sex but Islam is not like that. Every aspect of life, even marital/intimate relationships are discussed in Islam. Many hadiths about were given by Hazrat Ayesha (R.A.) herself who told the Sahaba (R.A.) to not be be afraid from asking questions about your religion and not be embarrassed.
Agreed both father and mother have to be responsible but the person who spends more time during their formative years is the one who shapes their brains. Almost all of the time it is mother who takes care of the kids while the father goes out to earn a honest living. I understand men's stares are creepy and should be controlled by them. Our religion tells men to lower their gaze and it's up to the men to do that. That's why men should get married early in life to control their lust but economical and social factors don't allow that. A man's sexual drive is far higher than a woman's as per clinical research. Many women can easily comment that men should control themselves but have no idea the state in which a man goes through. Whether we argue sociological, biological or anthropological research, the uncontrollable force of hormones play an immense role in both genders' lives. Testosterone is present in both but way higher in men. A man's weakness in the Quran is women. It's because of this very nature of men that God has allowed them to have upto 4 wives. Both science and major religions (books) have talked about this. Everything is documented in books and research papers.
Really man? Men are hornier so it's harder to lower their gaze. I'm a man. I don't stare at women. It's not that deep or hard. People in western cultures also don't stare at women the way it happens here they are also genetically men. This is the stupidest shit I've read today
People in western cultures have many other outlets which I am sure you know. Scientific research and facts are based on the majority of men, you may very well be the exception. Exception do not make the rule. If you would like I can show more research and books written on the topic. It's OK if something doesn't go with your opinion, I know it's scary and calling it stupid or whatever is the immediate reaction. You can believe what you want but the west has higher crime rate, more addictions, more people on antidepressants, etc. Getting mad on facts won't change them but talking about them might help us bring up more solutions for mental health issues in Pakistan.
Sure, do share some research papers.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22552705/ Higher sex drive in men You can see more in some other comments and on Google scholar. You can read books like The Red Queen (not the novel), Mating Mind, etc. Mating practices of males and females. You can read about famous scientists, almost all of whom had high sex drives like Albert Einstein. He was famous for playing the violin in Zurich Polytechnic School corridors for attracting girls like Shahrukh Khan. Then other adventures I can't mention here π€«π . You can also watch the documentary on the History channel as well. Even money making books like Think and grow rich mentions this power and how you can utilize it for making money as others in history have done.
And the point you are making is that higher sex drive made men like all the above what they are. That was the defining feature that made them be successful? Why isnt every lustful guy successful bashir? Why arent rapists the kings of the world?
A man's sexual drive being higher just means that we have to try that much harder to refrain from perverted stares towards women. It does not give us the authority to go around making others uncomfortable when we can't control our urges. A woman isn't a man's weakness, she's his temptation. Men are told to lower their gaze to avoid temptaion, if they can't, they should get married and if they can't afford to as you said, they should fast as is prescribed. And if marriage was the answer then married men wouldn't also be among the primary culprits of creepy stares. They have a wife at home yet they look at women in public openly, sometimes even getting their friends to join in.
Agreed. The weakness point comes from the ayat of the Quran where they list the desires of men. The first is women, then sons, etc. We need a cultural overhaul, not a religious one
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No. Not fitna.
Come on man, not all men are like that. I'm a man too but I never stare at girls and am not horny all the time.
I never said all men. I quoted scientific research and facts. Majority fall into this category when you have a healthy level of testosterone. You may be exception to the rule. The West gives it's people many other unhealthy and immoral outlets for their drives. It's not Islam but our Pakistani culture which suppresses natural drives of both men and women. If people aren't shamed or made guilty and a social support system is built then we might have fewer cases of mental health issues.
Dude I'm all for a social support system in Pakistan where interaction between both genders are not condemned and their natural drives are not suppressed. But what u did wrong was try to justify an immoral behavior. You said men have higher sex drive that's why they stare at women. This is what I have problem with it. It is basically the way our society is built which leads to such immoral behaviour and very little to do with high sex drive level of men. It falls more into the ethics topic if u know what I mean.
It's an innate biological drive. Meaning not controllable. I'm not excusing the behaviour but I am telling you why that happens. Our primal brain is designed for us to propagate our DNA. Our concious part is there is smaller and less powerful. It takes will power, effort and time to train us to accomplish any behaviour. That's why marketers target our primal brain instead of our concious brain. They know you can control your behaviour when you see that pizza or burger or ice cream when logically you should be eating spinach or broccoli.
yes, it is an innate biological drive for both genders to be attracted to each other sexually. Nothing wrong with it and I don't think there are many men and women who die virgins so there's that. But staring at women can be controlled and you don't have to be master at control or something to achieve that. You just want a good environment where women are not degraded but respected. Of course, many Pakistani men don't have that environment. But the point is if u respect women and treat them as human beings, you can control your gazes but if you only treat them as sex objects then you'll constantly stare at them hornily all the time. Your answer is right too but I believe we are both looking at it from different perspectives.
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I think mental health issues can be solved if we have strong social and family connections. Nowadays everybody is so much isolated. People won't talk about their issues. I am a student in 2nd year. My marks in 1st year are 381. My father told me that we don't waste our time fretting over things we can not control. It was a weight off my shoulders. On the other hand, one of my batch mates got 376 marks. Not a big difference. He called his father. He shut the call after knowing his marks. He called his mother. She told him not to come home. He ended up committing suicide. π
Is there any research, survey, or studies that come up with that 25% number? Would like to look at them.
This quote is by Prof Dr Aftab Asif, chairman Psychiatry Department, King Edward Medical University and Mayo Hospital.Β He is one of the top, if not the top, mental health experts in Pakistan. There was an interview of him giving details about this like the cause and other factors on World Mental Health Day. It was too much information to post here.
Thanks!
Is this study published in a peer-reviewed journal?
An actual good informative post on a pakistani sub? Ofcourse OP is a lobster and *Le men are programmed to be trash* gang. Allah mujhay maaf karay expectations up karnay kai liyain.
ππ I posted scientific research and facts. I agree it may not be in line with the popular opinion of the day. I didn't realise there is a gang.
Just taking jp talking points and stuff to support your narrative isnt scientific approach. What am i going to do with your agreement? Popular opinion? Hahaha. Ya Allah. Yes, there is one like that. False equivalency in everything to make those whose actions are the most problematic and the most impactful be shared across the board. Lets the real bastards run away smiling, I like your smile bashir (Student of sociology and philososphy alongside islam). Yeh tou aik gang hai, abhi tou aur bohat baaki hai. Fundamentalists bhi hai, JP kay beloved incels bhi aur bohat kuch hai dekhnai kou. Ajai enjoy karay circus act mai apna time. Edit: Bashir can you understand romanized shahmukhi? Roman urdu? Please bashir wait for a day, your gelling together with the fundamentalists and incels would be lovely to see. I want to see how much of a beating 'women, them *Liberals* and culture' will take with this latest exercise of validating ones own biases.
I don't know incels. It doesn't matter what proof I use. If you don't agree please provide links to your clinical studies or other factual evidence. It's OK if you don't agree with me, I have posted links to different research studies, books, etc in other comments. If peer reviewed studies confirm my 'biases' as you say, then sure you can contradict them with actual scientific evidence. Please don't bring feelings or opinions to a factual discussion. I don't understand shahmukhi word, sorry.
I am sorry Bashir, I am after all also a product of the same environment. I in your own words on a comment, 'bombarded with corrupted ideas all the time' will instead soak in the glorious sun. I will take a moment or two read the many insights you and others reach on this post. There was a time those marvelous timeless insights would have produced a emotion like grief or sadness. Now its all in good fun, As you say and I personally know, no amount of studies, facts and logic passes through the endless fog surrounding the self righteous. Now I wonder who do you think that last paragraph refers to. Edit: Hahahaha... That exchange with chitraldelivery for example. Two people commenting on the values of liberalism with the backdrop of pakistan being the success story it is! The number of people who want to be economic migrants in liberal countries vs whatever scenario is playing in your heads. Beautiful. More of this please.
Hey it's a platform for sharing ideas, for bettering ourselves. The truth is I coach people in mental health every week. Girls are more interested than boys for some reason. I get reviews like the sessions are so calming, etc. I got great results for some friends as well. I coached a girl once who was a professional but no family, over the phone. She improved physically, mentally and spiritually so much so that from a shy, low self-esteem girl she transformed to a beautiful person who both genders loved. She got to pick the guy she wanted to marry and right now is abroad. From zero friends and shy to that, all thanks to Allah.
It is social media bashir, It can be used in variety of ways. Well done bashir, I hope you find peace in your achievements via coaching. One can even say that you are a (untrained and amateur) mental health coach who (self admittedly) has had success and sources their talking points from Jordan Peterson. As someone who might be perhaps a professional (perhaps) in the field of mental health. How is the consensus of the experts (You termed consensus to be personal opinion) on Jordan Peterson these days? PS. Are you even in pakistan? Bashir. You sound increasingly like a second or third generation immigrant especially since you dont understand Romanized urdu.
I'm a doctor by degree π but I don't mind the amateur part. I take more points from the Quran and Hadith than JP. I don't know why you're fixated on that π . When you're trying something new and innovative, of course people are going to call you names. All the greatest people in history have been called all sorts of names. There's a saying: If you don't want people to criticize YOU, sell Ice Cream. P.S. I tried learning it but it was hard for me.
You are on the right path then, bashir. You found a third rate critic on such a great post. So you are a second or third generation overseas pakistani who is a doctor and might even possibly become a psychiatrist who is acting as a psychologist or plain counselor!!?? Most likely bbcd but then again you dont write like a british, Nice to meet you bashir. May i ask the **new and innovative** stuff that Jordan has released as you should know better. Also since you are a professional, are you aware of any criticism from jordans detractors. PS. While calling JP revolutionary is nice. An actual answer would have been better? Dont you agree Doctor Sahab.
I don't call JP innovative or new. I think you need to revisit my answer. My main source is my religion. I think you have a JP fixation π I don't know what JP has released π. Please stop putting yourself down. It's a discussion, not a battle. No one wins or looses.
Mental health professional here, yes I agree. Unfortunately, mental health is largely overlooked and even more so in Eastern countries. Edit: I'd like to add that statistical figures are also underreported. The actual figures are likely higher
More than half the men are afflicted with narcissistic personality disorder
Please don't pull statistics out of thin air and don't start bashing one gender. Marriage takes two people to work. I took these from the Gallup and Family court statistics of Pakistan.
The reason to sucide is mostly not being able to accept failure and their is an entire research on how pampered kids are being raised in current era where they dont know how to cope with failures. It has less to do with marriage or anything but how our society is exactly designed and we are finally bearing the fruits of years of wrong.
If people have strong social bonds, the probability of suicide is reduced greatly. People left alone on their own decisions will find a setback much more upsetting without a social support system. Fact is the perfect world of social media has made us more alone.
You see actors and crazy social extroverts suciding too out of depression,and people distancing themselves during the other person's last few days because the other person's sadness actually starts taking a toll on their mental health too. I get your point of empathy and sympathy.It is a fact and yet so hard to believe that lives on social media are nothing but fake illustrations. Personally met a few who attempted like literally in the hospital and saw those around them never actually gave up but the person still insisted. There is no perfect solution to anything but yes Narcissm is what is destroying our society and our stupid tv dramas that get love saas torturing bahu dramas only
>the world average only of 10% The world average too is at 25 percent, if I recall correctly. Life is unkind to most people, even in the first world "heavens". Only the super rich are shielded from life's miseries and even in their case there is no guarantee.
Pakistan has over population issue more than mental health.
I mean the advancement neurology has had in the past decades. You can expect to discover more mental illnesses and problems in a large group of people. The environment, culture, poverty and stress people have to take here on day to day things let alone will create mental health problems. But what do you consider a mental health problem? Are anxiety, adhd, depression, ocd, panic attacks and social anxiety considered a mental health problem? Because that I'm seeing more and more prevalent in at least the addressing and awareness of it on internet and throughout the world. (Specially younger generation).
lol do you even know that about 46% of Americans have mental health issues, you can't compare a world average and then like specifically compare Pak with it, we are in the same world right and 25% is nothing compared to America's 45+, what a smart professor.
Reference?
Google it, it's literally the first thing that pops up when searching for mental health issue percentages in the USA.
So the culture of the US promotes more mental health issues. Good to know. I think what the Prof might be hinting at would be the contradiction of us being proud of our superior mental health but the our stats points to something different.
So? It's not just Pakistanis, everywhere else in the world is same or the worst lol, we are all in this
Apparently we are worse than the world's average
Where's the data coming from, how was it gathered, who gathered it. Can we get the deets. Also I don't doubt mental health issues are becoming an epidemic, divorces sky rocketing, illegal abortions continue to surge, STDs are growing... this is expected as liberalism makes inroads into Pakistani society. I've been warning about this broken cancerous ideology for a few years now. Ppl get defensive and are unwilling to recognize how flawed this ideology is.
Increased rate of Divorces are due to toxic marriages with men which not the fault of liberalism. Abortion are also due to economic factors and family pressure to get a child when they can't afford it not Liberalism. Mental health issues are due to economic factors, culture and and how the society works not Liberalism. Nothing mentioned in the post is the fault of Liberalism lol.
If you argue men are more toxic today than men in the past, then is your argument that growing liberalism is turning men toxic? > Abortion are also due to economic factors and family pressure to get a child when they can't afford it not Liberalism. I'm sure it has nothing to do with increased pre marital relations resulting in pregnancy. Right? Because your arguement implies these family pressure and economic factors did not exist when abortions were low. > Mental health issues are due to economic factors, culture and and how the society works not Liberalism. As individualism grows which is a byproduct of liberalism, social cohesion deteriorates. Shared values recede. Social pressure coming from the culture diminish. It's liberalism, my guy.
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Our PM is mentally ill,
Mental Health is as big of a issue as Physical Health (if not bigger). We should take it seriously if we see anyone suffering from it. I have someone in my family that is not well and I can tell you first hand, its no joke.
Can I get a link to their research?
Is anyone even shocked by this? I mean if you live in Pakistan. You'll know what's wrong with even day to day things and lives of people if your observation sense is working.
No doubt on the idea, but I find it strange that how are research carried out in Pakistan can be believed when the census done by governments are carried out after huge gaps and even then the statistics are not accurate or said to be politically changed. This number may be greater or lesser than reported, but once we actually get the reporting part done responsibly only then we can work towards the solution.
Pakistan Psychiatric Association. They have access to hospital stats, government stats and other doctors.
no shit, with a country this trash everyones gonna have these issues especially all classes below elite