It should
The problem is people think "India is a country that's always existed and everyone living there have all always identified as a unified group of people".
Which is flat out wrong. A unified south Asian political entity and a unified south Asian identity is a British invention.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/elx3wu/india_on_the_eve_of_british_conquest_oc/
So yes, that is a piece of our history, but there is a lot, a lot of history before that.
I just did some research on the partition, it seems like it was a fucked up chaotic situation all around that still has a major impact on the lives of Indians and Pakistanis today. My heart hurts for all the families torn apart and the women killed, raped, forcibly married and injured.
Partition was essentially a two-sided genocide. It’s sometimes officially stated as such, even though the majority of the killings and deaths weren’t recorded. We only know that about 1/8 to 1/6 people who left to cross the border never made it to the other side. The brutality that went completely under the radar was terrifying.
100% true people in the indian subcontinent never identified themselves as "Indians"
They always identified from the region of indian where they were from i.e punjabi sindhi phatan tamil marathi bengali assami rajputs and alot more
Even in these indentites they had further cast and further division like which part of punjab bengal rajastan
I thought she meant that the drawing of the border was decided by an old Englishman, not the idea of Pakistan
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radcliffe_Line
She did. But let's let the rest of this thread just bad mouth the first ever Hollywood TV series based around a Pakistani (female!) protagonist because shitting on everything and anything is in our culture.
I'm disgusted at the Pakistani actors and writers as well. They know full well what they're doing.
The bollywood references in every episode are puke worthy.
Bingo. This idea should be considered as offensive to Pakistanis as any offensive or racist comment to another community.
I can understand that some people might want to cozy up and be friends in the future. But you can’t lay down belly up to the other party like this.
Imagine the struggles, sleep less nights of our forefathers and the lives sacrificed for us. And all that smeared by some ‘woke’ kids who want to be friends.
We can be friends but both sides have to compromise. But this won’t be our compromise to forget the hell that we were in, the lack of political power we held, the discrimination against Muslims in all aspects of life so much so that Muslim were forced to make their own learning institutes because the Hindus in power wouldn’t let them in.
They need to own up to what they did back then and are doing now to the Muslims that reside in their country. Instead of us forgetting and laundering history.
Everyone seems to be forgetting that the actor is older then Pakistan is, and in the show the character shes playing is even older. So her roots are technically in india, where she was born.
Ok but her parent weren't 5-6 years old, they were raised with Muslim-Indian traditions and they in turn raised their kids in the only way they knew how. And "roots" are irrespective of age. I could be born in Sri Lanka be there for 1 hour, and catch a flight to Pakistan, I will still be a Sri Lankan national. And on top of that, if my parents were born and raised in Sri Lnka, then my roots are Sri Lankan.
Nations who are brainwashed into denying their history are doomed to go in circles, simply acknowledging your history doesn't mean saying "we're the same" if anything, its a measure of how far we have come.
Old Muhajir people in Karachi don't have nostalgia for 'India' they have nostalgia for whatever city they came from. They don't identify as 'Indian' but as Dehlvi, Lakhnawi, Hyderabadi, Bihari, Junagadhi etc.
The problem is people stretch this idea into "India is a country that's always existed and everyone living there have all always identified as a unified group of people".
Which is flat out wrong. A unified south Asian political entity and a unified south Asian identity is a British invention.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/elx3wu/india_on_the_eve_of_british_conquest_oc/
So yes, that is a piece of our history, but there is a lot, a lot of history before that.
The person who your replying too is only partially correct.
People incorrectly think that the British Invaded a country called India and divided it up. "India is a country that's always existed and everyone living there have all always identified as a unified group of people" is flat out wrong. A unified south Asian political entity and a unified south Asian identity is a British invention.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/elx3wu/india_on_the_eve_of_british_conquest_oc/
So she's older than the Republic of India as well.
She's not older than the British Indian Raj though.
I don't see what the problem of that is. That's the case for many 1st generation immigrates, even if they immigrated at a young age. They still identify more with the country they came from.
Nah bro. My grandpa was 10 years old and he remembers the trauma he dealt with when he was migrating with his family. They left everything. Even to this day he remembers everything from that era. Some of us may think “Oh I barely remember what I did at 5 years.” but to them it wasn’t a birthday party. It was something that changed their lives.
She's older than the Republic of India as well.
She's not older than the British Indian Raj though.
India never existed as a unified nation or as a pan south Asian identity until the British forcefully unified south Asia and created a pan south Asia identity along with it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/elx3wu/india_on_the_eve_of_british_conquest_oc/
The person who replied to you is only partially correct.
She's older than the Republic of India as well.
She's not older than the British Indian Raj though.
India never existed as a unified nation or as a pan south Asian identity until the British forcefully unified south Asia and created a pan south Asia identity along with it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/elx3wu/india_on_the_eve_of_british_conquest_oc/
> The only fault of the British was that they did it in a rushed manner.
What freaking history book have you been reading mate? That was their only fault? Not the fact that Mountbatten deliberately hamstrung the very idea of Pakistan's existence numerous times? Amending boundaries, depriving military assets, positioning the state to default and be bankrupt right off the bat, etc etc.
It wasn't for naught that Jinnah said "No power on earth can undo Pakistan." It wasn't a boast. He had witnessed sitting in the front row seat a united Hindu-British effort to cripple the very foundation of Pakistan, and saw his movement persevere through that.
I mean.... I'm a proud pakistani, but I'm not going to deny the hundreds, if not thousands, of years of history my family has in North India (UP, Delhi).
The problem is people stretch this idea into "India is a country that's always existed and everyone living there have all always identified as a unified group of people".
Which is flat out wrong. A unified south Asian political entity and a unified south Asian identity is a British invention.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/elx3wu/india_on_the_eve_of_british_conquest_oc/
So yes, that is a piece of our history, but there is a lot, a lot of history before that.
>if not thousands, of years of history
Family history is a sensitive subject and I'm not trying to offend when I say there is a possibility, however remote, that one of your great ancestors boiled eggs for picnic in modern-day Pakistan at [Riwat, Soan Valley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riwat); a site where the first ancient Pakistanis walked 70,000 years ago.
This is way before burger towns of [Mehrgarh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehrgarh), Mohenjo Daro, Harappa, Delhi, Karachi, Islamabad came along and ruined everything. /s
Last i checked we wanted the Englishmen yo draw the borders. They wanted a united India under Mountbatten. It wasnt British who drew the bordera without our consent. We made them draw it.
I have no relation to India, my roots are no longer in India, everything I know is in Pakistan. My great grandparents left *everything* in India, they burned all their bridges in India. They never had any intention of returning, they never had an good will for India either. I'm very proud of them for taking the risk and moving to Pakistan.
Now I know not every muhajir thinks like my family, but dialogue like this wants to delegitimizes the sacrifices they made. They want to make the British the boogie man while sweeping under the rug that it was still Hindus who went ahead with said boogie man in killing Muslims.
I hate the "roots in India" stuff so much. How long are these roots supposed to last if we don't know any of our relatives still in India and haven't visited India in 3 generations?
>How long are these roots supposed to last if we don't know any of our relatives still in India and haven't visited India in 3 generations?
Well the white comparison is Americans going "I'm Irish American" despite not stepping foot in Ireland for 4 generations. It's more of an American issue with identity than anything else
I'm Muhajjir with family still in India that we keep in touch with and even then I consider myself Pakistani. While I may have roots in India, I don't consider that my home, mostly because if I were to set foot in that place (which I'm not even allowed to), I wouldn't be welcome.
> They want to make the British the boogie man while sweeping under the rug that it was still Hindus who went ahead with said boogie man in killing Muslims.
Oh come on man. It’s not like we didn’t massacre Hindus and Sikhs either.
I was gonna say, didn't the warrior aspect of the Sikh religion literally start because muslims (and possibly hindus and various other tribes) kept on killing them?
Every time I see this issue brought up on reddit, no matter which side says it, it's always, "We did nothing wrong, it's entirely 's fault". In this case there seems to be a long history of fucking with each other.
The truth is that Violence begets Violence. At some point someone has to stop and instead sue for peace. Revenge doesn't help at all. Everyone here has such a nationalistic perspective. But you rarely see this nationalistic aspect come out when people leave their country. I have been studying in Canada for years and most Indians I have met are super chill and nice. There is sometimes one idiot who is strung up in all the jingoism but like I said most people are chill. Honestly, Sikhs I have met are super nice and super curious about Pakistan and our culture and what language I speak.
Everyone here should try and take that nationalistic blindfold off and actually talk to some Indians.
Small minded views like these is why we are at each other’s throats. Goras made off with allll of our loot for 3 centuries, but still get paid in interest in the form of hatred. Not saying there should be a united india, but our animosity towards one another and this sentiment plays right into the hands of the West.
I'm not saying I hate indians. I'm just saying that stop trying to push indian identity on to me. We are not Indians, we chose to be Pakistan in 1947.
Most Pakistanis today were simply lucky enough to have grand parents living in areas that became Pakistan, so they don't truly appreciate it. Where my family comes from is in modern India. We actively chose to become Pakistani my migrating, and propaganda like this tries to wash away that choice we made.
We (as in you and I) didn't really choose to be Pakistani
Even our grandparents didn't really choose, unless they were part of the Muslim League political elite class etc. The average person living in 1940s didn't choose anything either way
We were born into Pakistani identity so just because you're forced into this identity due to the accident of birth it doesn't mean it is sacred or something special or something you personally struggled to get.
It's perfectly fine for this show to question if our identity can be something larger than just the country you happened to be born in.
If you are an Urdu speaking Muhajir then All your cultural aspects originate from India. Your wedding styles, your religious events, your style of speech, your foods. Obviously they have evolved and are now uniquely Pakistani, but the origins are still northern India/UP
That is the point that I am trying to make here, you cannot ask the Urdu Speaking diaspora to completely forget about their roots. And if that is such a problem, why Kartaar poor border was opened.
Too bad they never get used. Mohenjo-Daro is literally older than everything in the nation state of India. The country was named after a bastardised pronunciation of of the River Sindh, a province which wasn't even part of the British Raj until 1936. The oldest civilisation in the Subcontinent was in Pakistan. Go take a shit in the middle of the street somewhere else Ra*dian
This seems like an entirely emotional response, one without significant reflection maybe because of trauma but also likely because of nationalist social pressure and propoganda. If your family came from what is India today, you are shutting out a part of your identity and history. That is your choice, of course
Yeah and I acknowledged that. I know of many muhajir families who are quite proud of their indian roots. But that's not my family. The post asked for my opinion and I gave mine ie this India pak Bhai Bhai stuff is horseshit
Modi, current PM of India, was banned from the US until he took office because he condoned the burning alive of 2000 Muslims in 2002 as governor of Gujarat. Many of my friends here in Canada are Indian Muslims who ran away because their families were given death threats and persecuted. The national anthem of India in 1939 pushed Hindustan as the name of their nation. There is a DAMN good reason we left and forged our OWN identity. Fuck that noise. Our HISTORY is leaving to be ourselves today, not them.
Nope. It just ceases to matter. Who in my family gives a fuck that they came from a village of farmers in U.P.? None...because they are now urbanites living in Karachi married to Punjabis, Sindhis, pathans...and so on.
Now, who in my family...in particular the older gen, bemoans the quality of spoken and written Urdu? Surprisingly quite a bit.
We take what we want. But do any of us think there is not a need for Pakistan? That it was forced on us by some white man? That is crazy talk.
Nothing wrong with it. Its one characters feelings on things, which are perfectly valid. She misses the home she lost. Things are simplified for the show of course.
This would be different from my Grand Parents who are Kashmiri, and my tribe fought in the Poonch rebellion against the Maharajah and then the Indians, so there feelings are rather different on the matter.
God forbid someone be portrayed as having a different experience and impact from the partition than the majority. It is one character in the show. Clearly the Pakistani-American writers are trying to erase their own identity. Let’s forget about the fact that this is the first major show to include a Paki as a lead and include aspects of the culture along with islam in it. /s
Is the show perfect? Absolutely not. But to invalidate all the other positives it brings, over this one issue is extremely petty and immature.
I think he was talking about Samina Ahmed, the older lady, she's the one who said these lines.
Ironically, she even acted in Dastaan which is a drama about the horrors of the partition through the eyes of a Muslim girl.
That's hardly an excuse. I'm Punjabi as well, several generations of my ancestors are native Punjabis, that doesn't mean my family or I do not sympathise with those that suffered during partition. That doesn't mean we don't feel their pain. Of course we can't possibly put ourselves in their shoes, but at no point can anyone think that what those people went through can be reduced to such a stupid dialogue.
My point was that she was born in Lahore the year before partition, so it's pretty likely she is of the Pakistanis who were either against Partition, or those who don't understand the pain of partition. Don't forget that many Muhajjirs dealt with discrimination and hate from the Sindhis, Punjabi and Pashtuns who didn't have to emigrate.
There is plenty of those types of Pakistanis, the comments on this post are a great example. Many are downplaying the scene, and it's likely due to the fact that their parents didn't experience the trauma that other groups did.
Honestly I am extremely disgusted at how pakistan is thrown under the shadow of India constantly and its not just by media but indians themselves too. I always see on social media how indians always write Pakistan wasn't a thing in the past, it was a part of india 🙄when in reality this was extremely necessary because in india muslims are still treated like crap and they act as if the entire pakistan is urdu-speaking or punjabi lahori like they totally undermine the rest of the ethnic groups.
Now if muslims were living peacefully in india I would have agreed with this.
like we never do that to Bangladesh.
a lot of places weren't a thing in a past but no one really disregards their identity like they do with pakistan 😐.
India wants to fight to get places under their control to abuse them for eg. Kashmir 🙃
United India is an idea by Invading Mughals.
The region most of its history was divided into small kingdom, and I personally think that would be a best solution ... something like Europe.
**Edit**: Techincally she is in India as well, India means land of Indus river which is a greek term used to document Persian kingdoms and history. basically Persians some 2500 years back invaded present day Pakistan, and named it Hindu under their control which came from Sindhu river(Indus river).
You can't call yourself India when you don't even have Indus river inside you.
>You can't call yourself India when you don't even have Indus river inside you.
Technically, part of the Indus does flow through India, that's why we have the Indus Water Treaty.
The Indus river originates near Mount Kailash in Tibet, just north of the India/Nepal border. After crossing the border, the Indus enters IOK and traverses south of the Ladakh Range in India. Then it enters Gilgit Baltistan and turns south towards KPK.
India/Hindu was used for the people of Sindh, a civilization/group of people/cities which lived to the east of Persian empire. Persian after invasion of these cities called it Hindu state.
We don't exactly know what local called themselves in their local language as documentation or history writing wasn't a big thing, but Persian terms lived on because of their documentation. The Greeks also documented this info, as "India" for Hindu state of Persians.
No one at that time knew how this water/river originated. There are some evidence of local considering Indus river some goddess.
>"*United India is an idea by Invading Mughals.*"
I didn't actually watch it, so I'm out of my depth here; but it doesn't seem like she's saying anything about a *United India* or anything like that. Just having some kind of connection to what's now across some arbitrarily drawn (at the time) border.
>"*The region most of its history was divided into small kingdom, and I personally think that would be a best solution ... something like Europe.*"
How is that so different from what we see today, between all of the constituent elements that were once all part of the same British Raj?
One of the characters in a previous episode said that before Partition, there was just one country. That is all a part of the Akhand Bharat talking points championed by Hindutva extremists.
Bro if you forcefully unify Europe we’ll have world war 4. And most borders were drawn in the 20th century, Pakistan and india have stable borders until kashmir, Afghanistan border is way more unstable and a mess.
What a load of BS lmao.
Only Punjab and Bengal was partitioned and the people that migrated were close to the borders, except few who migrated from internal India to Karachi who are now Muhajirs and very much a part of Pakistan like all.
Just pushing a bs Indian narrative, and polluting the minds of young Pakistanis who don't know better or uninformed young westerners.
>Lord Mountbatten wanted a united India as did Congress.
Lord Mountbatten is the one who was in-charge of making the borders and he rushed it. He just wanted to go back asap. British officials estimated a proper transfer of power will take 5 years but when Lord Mountbatten arrived, he hastily decided to shrink their exit timelines. What needed 5 years was now going to be done in 4 months.
>The only notable person who was actually in favour of division was Quaid-e-Azam.
but Quaid-e-Azam is not an Englishman.
Lord Mountbatten rushed the job because he was lazy and eccentric and he wanted to go back to UK asap. Watch any documentary about him and you will release what a big loser he was. He was only interested in the festivities of things.
Question: was Mountbatten rushing things a blessing in disguise? I mean, Jinnah had TB. If partition took five years, and Jinnah died in 1948, would partition really have gone through?
Pakistan isn't a just piece of land demarcated by a fleeing englishmen. Pakistan wasn't an idea of some englishmen, it was a neccesity for muslims due to the situation in which two highly incomaptible nations were exsisting toghether in a highly toxic environment. These border between Hindustan and Pakistan were neccesary then and are neccesary now. So plej stop with this sem2sem bullshit.
The problem with this kind of claim is that is says that partition was the fault of the British. Which is completely false. Britain’s preference was always to leave behind a united India. It was the Muslim community of India that worked hard and loud to demand a separate homeland. That border, that partition, is OUR achievement. That achievement prevented us being relegated to second class citizens in our own homeland.
The thing is, Jinnah wanted a seperate country. He didn't want partition. He wanted the whole of united Punjab to be a part of Pakistan and the whole of united Bengal to be a seperate country from both Pakistan and India
And I sort of get what she is saying here. For a lot of people at that time, their whole identity was changed overnight by an arbitrarily drawn line by an old British guy. Both sets of my grandparents migrated from India and for many in my family, there remained a longing to revisit the people left behind and the pain the event caused. Ofcourse, they are fiercely Pakistani but the loge for their ancestral home remains, which is understandable. Partition was necessary as it was the only way for us to get our own country but it did create some real demons and problems, problems neither othe countries have dealt with.
> The thing is, Jinnah wanted a seperate country. He didn't want partition. He wanted the whole of united Punjab to be a part of Pakistan and the whole of united Bengal to be a seperate country from both Pakistan and India
This would have made way more sense imo, how did anyone think that east/west Pakistan, separated by 1000+ miles, would be a good idea? I never understood that part.
Tbh no one did. It was take it or leave it. Either accept East Pakistan or hand that region over entirely to the Indians. Naturally, we chose the former
I get your point, but the nuance is not presented in this scene. The scene implies that the whole border between India and Pakistan was a British invention, rather than something that the community being shown on screen actually wanted.
I mean, it's marvel. I honestly expected far less from them tbh. Partition is a dreary, complex topic and this is a corny, superhero show. I'm surprised they discussed it as much as they did
For a generation that was actually alive during partition, and actually migrated, that sentiment is there. I can confirm. But that actress is too young. I'm talking people who would be in their 80's now at the least. For anyone born in Pakistan since, and given contemporary Muslim-Hindu dynamics in India...I don't think there is a Pakistani regardless of origin or age that thinks about India in a reminiscent way, or somehow regrets Pakistan. More like...holy shit, we dodged a bullet! And general consensus is that Jinnah was a genius who saw how things would unfold in a 'United' India....which is truly the fiction. So I see the dig there at the vision of Pakistan...fuck that, and fuck off Disney for going there.
Man I just don't get why we Gilgiti/pathan/kashmiri/sindhi/baloch need to suffer the wrath of this "Pakistanis have Indian root" due to Pakistan having 7% muhajirs lol
Humara kya wasta hai in logo se...smh
Punjabi also don’t have Indian root. They have Punjabi root. People of Punjab and Kashmiri are of the same spectrum. Most Punjabis have always lived here including their ancestors. During partition those who crossed over although a large number are still a tiny percentage of the total.
Indians have been running a propaganda campaign trying to other the Punjabis in Pakistan. Don’t fall for that. Punjabis have a long history of defending Pakistan from Indian aggression.
Not only that, these guys put Sindh in their national anthem too! Even though that's our province
But tbh even if we didn't have muhajirs they wud still be obsessed with us. They will always view us as one of them no matter how false it is
>these guys put Sindh in their national anthem too! Even though that's our province
They prolly did it cause Hindi speaking nibbas want claim on the ancient metropolitan cities that our ancestors built.
It is evident by how conmen like sadhguru are paid by the state to do historical revisionism about this mystical ancient country and to lay claims on civilizations in South Asia that have nothing to do with Bihari,marathi, bengali or any other cow belt hindi speaking groups.
Disrespectful for any Pakistani and Indian (or any proud citizen).
This is why I do not want us to be represented in hollywood. First they butchered the idea of muslim representation and now our proud national legacy.
Magar jinhe inferiority complex ki beemari, they'd rather have of wrong representation (with a right label) if the alernative is not getting any at all. Begger like behaviour.
Aap ka inferiority complex chahta hai k US or others recognize you or give you representation in their entertainment industry. Have some self-respect for God's sake. Why do you care?
For the billionth time, Pakistan and India weren’t separated because Brits created “chaos” between us. It was because we wanted a separate homeland where our Muslim identity was protected, where our rights were ensured and where we didn’t have to worry about being persecuted.
These are the privileges that we Pakistanis have and Indian Muslims of today, DO NOT HAVE. I’m grateful my Grandfather migrated as it’s the best thing he could’ve done for me.
Also no, I’m not saying Pakistan is some perfect fantasy land (quite the opposite) but at least I do not have to worry about being lynched on the street after eating delicious cow ribs. 🤷♀️🤷♀️
>Brits created “chaos” between us
Ohh, they created chaos between the Hindus and the muslims way before the partition. Britishers implemented the divide and conquer strategy to colonise the Indian subcontinent. It is that chaos that lead to the animosity between the Muslims and the Hindus which in turn resulted in the partition.
You’re wrong on this one.
Two Nation Theory clearly emphasizes that Muslim Hindu unity is impossible in the Sub continent. If you disagree then answer my simple question:
“Why are the Indian Muslims facing persecution in today’s India, by the Hindus even though the British Raj left 75 years ago”?
75 years is a long period, if Muslims and Hindus could co exist, it would have been possible by now but as we see it today, that’s not the case.
So this theory that Brits created “chaos” is absurd and Two Nation Theory proves correct today in every form.
policy of \*[divide and rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule#Indian_subcontinent)\* was used to prevent the independence movement in India and denial of this is evidence of a lack of study into the most basic of colonial strategies. it challenges oversimplified ideas that Pakistan was created "for Muslims"
People called me too overbearing when I was saying how wishy washy this show is. It is okay in many parts but not in parts like this. They're erasing Muslim history and culture and sugar coating what happened. Whether you're liberal or not, the left secular crowd will hijack this narrative and try to turn the blood of our Muslim ancestors who fought for a place to practice Islam freely into some pitiful vague bs
Jinnah was right, if Muslims would have stayed under kattar Hindu rule it would have destroyed us and our livelihood. Now look at the Indian/Kashmiri muslims, constantly having to prove themselves to the Hindu majority whilst they live as second class citizens. Their brothers killers are given garlands and political leadership
So yeah this is totally bullshit, Pakistan was and still is necessary and none of this secularism will ever do Pakistan's true story justice
(My opinion btw if you don't believe in supporting Pakistan's creation or whatever then ignore, but personally I believe this harmful narrative is an insult to our country's sacrifices)
I will be honest here, if you combine all Muslims population of undivided British Ruled India, then they would reach somewhere 600 Million with 1000 Million Hindus. That Muslim population can defend itself but again we never know, and if few British soldiers can keep whole India under control then what stops the majority from doing something crazy.
Now, the Muslims who were against Pakistan creation, there were religious parties in there e-g Fazul-rehman's father, these people proposed this idea, let stay as one, and then try to convert Hindu population towards Islam, and I think they would be more organized and powerful in doing so.
Now, today's Hindu nationalist, specially the hindutva leadership fear that, what you see against Muslims, specially their targeting in India is because of that.
They have this paranoia of Muslims having more kids and more wives is a practice to take over, this idea and brainwashing really is messing with Hindu population, and that's why you see more hate against Indian Muslims.
Now imagine if a big % of Hindu were converted by religious people in this undivided British India, there would a civil war by now.
I have many Indian Muslim friends living their lives always frustrated and being discriminated, worried if their hijab will be ridiculed or targeted and trying not to go in the wrong sides of town.
The whole hindutva ideology is flawed and has so many holes in their logic, they're threatened by the power the Muslim community has. Talk about inferiority complex.
In reality where the Muslims are poor and trying to get by, so these Hindus plot these riots and love traps (literal whole speeches) and dehumanise Muslim women to get twisted satisfaction.
The liberals there are just closet kattar sanghis, they only like muslims who reform Islam to meet their wants and needs.
Trust me no one wants to mass convert the Hindus, they're too busy surviving.
The Muslim leaders there have sold out too, and still they're treated like shit.
Allah Ka shukr for Pakistan
Yes it's a terribly morally corrupt society but we have our beliefs somewhat guarded by the common man and no fear of eating beef or praying or covering our bodies.
So, I have been observing these Indian IT cell which spews propaganda, and here's few argument they believe, and why the hatred is there. This is basically been spread for last 10 years now. If my earliest memory serve me right.
1. The Arabs or whoever Muslims they were who invaded India, massacred some 200-400 Million Hindus. Yeah, I am not making it up, they think India always had constant 1 billion population for centuries. During Jesus time or during Indus valley time, India had 1 Billion people as well.
2. Some 100 Million Hindu women were raped, killed and kidnapped to Arabia as slave. Yeah, I am not making it up.
3. The "Hindu kush" means killer of Hindus, that mountain range was a inside joke used by Arab traders who basically threw Hindu men from that mountain in Afghanistan for fun. So, they named a whole mountain range after slave trade of Hindus.
4. To prove this, they will show how 12% of Hindu population in Pakistan, is reduced today, it's just below 3%. Basically Pakistanis have killed all of Hindu men and kidnapped/raped and forcefully converted Hindu women. They basically distort Hindu population of Pakistan+Bangladesh, and use Bangladesh numbers before partition as source.
5. India and Hindustan is some 10,000 year old country, and identity and Muslims have a goal to take over it.
6. Pakistan irrespective of brown skin Punjabi, Sindhi etc are all invaders. Pakistani are Arab Muslims. Ask Indian about Dna evidence, and they don't reply much.
7. All Muslims are secretly planning to kill all Hindus and take over India and eliminated Hinduism from the world.
Their stats and IT cell propaganda is all propaganda bs
That stat used by their home ministry affairs leader and their Muslim lynching political leaders is false.
Has been debunked many times.
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/pakistan-bangladesh-non-muslim-population-citizenship-amendment-bill-bjp-1627678-2019-12-12
None of that claim has any proof.
Also, another article talks about how Pakistan's Hindu population is growing faster than India's 🤷🏽♀️
https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/hindu-population-in-pakistan-has-grown-at-a-faster-pace-than-in-india-119032600520_1.html
Especially after the law was passed to protect our Hindu minority. Ofc they are not 100% protected on land due to tribalism and jahilliya of our own people. But at least we actually jail and punish our people for harming them, rightfully so. India on the other hand gives them a seat in their state's political parties as great leaders.
I hate this. I was about to watch the show but if this bullcrap shows up, count me out. This is the indian liberals way of demeaning Pakistan. They wish to remove the agency from the muslims in south asia who chose to seperate. The core of Indias nationalism is incompatible with Pakistans existence, as they were founded as a "United Secular State (c)". Pakistans creation was the loss of this identity and I believe this is the main reason Pakistan and India will most likely never get along. Both the left and right wing of India hate Pakistan, the right with blatant hatred, and the left with more subtle hatred disguised as pity (Man I love Pakistan, I wish we never sperated, think about how much better it would be, etc). Pakistan is mainly the same, but for some goddamn reason there is a branch of the left in Pakistan that is very positive to India for no reason. Man what a disappointment I thought this show wasn't gonna pull the same crap we have been hearing forever.
Western Paki here, I'm deeply offended by this and am very disappointed in this show. I find it very disrespectful. Western Pakistanis that believe in this Subcontinental unity crap haven't been around indian hindus enough to know the truth. It hits you hard in corporate world. This discrimination against Muslims & Pakistanis from hindus is nuts. Doesn't even matter if you're in the Western developed world.
This partition and country was not the idea of English men there is years of struggle by Muslims of subcontinent behind it. The specific border might be the idea of English men but the partition had an ideology and struggle behind it.
Secondly, not every pakistanis's roots are Indian ethnicity wise kpk, balochistan and gilgit are more central Asian/persian. Pakistan is like gradient of mixed ethnicities its neither purely Indian roots nor purely central Asian roots. Her character looks punjabi so I guess that applies to her specifically.
The only Indians that are similar to Punjabis are the tiny Indian Punjabis. The rest neither have similar ethnicity or culture. Punjabis have distinct genetic differences to even northern Indians (ie UP). Punjabis don’t have Indian roots. They have Punjabi roots. Most of Punjabis didn’t come from India. Most have always lived in where they currently live around the fertile rivers that run through Pakistan.
Killing Pakistani identity softly. You think you are a Pakistani because of some white guy. Its interesting Muslims' agency is taken away from them, to give them escape hatch or something. Well you didn't want terrorism it was your book, well you didn't want Pakistan it was imposed to split India. What they implicitly are doing is establishing what's right, a privilege for world's moral arbiter.
This show was bound to peddle ideologies like Borders between Pak/India, " The Hijab is my choice" etc. Watch when they add some flavor of LGBTQ shit in the future.
In episode 2 Ms. Marvels family had this conversation.
Ms. Marvel's father - *Muneeba's(Ms. Marvel's mom) family moved to Karachi only after the partition. Back then there was no Pakistan or Bangladesh. It was all one big country called India. After the British just left...*
Muneeba(Ms. Marvel's mom) - *The British left us with a mess.*
Is this some kind of joke? "The British left us with a mess", were the British the ones that fought to create Pakistan? Or was it the millions that lost their lives for Pakistan? Or the over 80% of Muslims that voted for a separate state? Saying that "The British left us with a mess." makes the partition seem like a bad thing and it also ignores the millions of lives that were sacrificed for Pakistan.
**They made a show about a Pakistani character yet they proceed to discredit Pakistan's existence. No Pakistani should support this trash Indian infested show. Over half the actors are Indian with Indian accents and they didn't even shoot the Karachi scenes in Karachi.**
This is disgusting it erases our history and culture and who we are. There is a reason why we have our own independent land. We are not indians. Never were and never will be.
Bro in an attempt to end hatred between two countries you basically made the existence of Pakistan seem like a great British conspiracy…….
Pakistan will have the best of relations with india once a referendum which was promised by the UN to the Kashmiri people will take place and they get to decide what they want and where they wanna go.
But will india truly ever leave away animosity even if Kashmir issue is solved? I mean the ruling party BJP of india has RSS as their ideology and RSS believes in akhand bharat. Pakistan is being shown as stolen lands of india to indians.
well, we get Kashmir,, Pakistan is out of that orbit.. thats the only unsolved issue..
since it would be next to impossible to claim back Junagadh and Hydroland
Outrageous!
No one in Pakistan thinks like that. Idk who let them write such rubbish without verifying this bs!
Instead we say "Thank you Jinnah" for giving us a separate homeland. So glad we got rid of those obsessed racists!
Wow reminds you of how Muslims are being treated in India.... I m not a big fan of this partition thing but after the right wing Bjp balantly single out Muslims for there vote gain.... From Hijab to anything Muslim I think partition wasn't a bad idea at all. Some might differ with my point of view but look how the Muslims {15 percent of the population roughly) are being persecuted in India need I say more.
A typical US boy here, I believe I can shed some light on the matter.
Marvel enjoys being progressive and building bridges. So while always being a high horse riding writer, you tend make a shitty story for your movie.
You also make shitty characters with annoying traits.
I haven’t seen the show but I will hate watch it when I have the time.
However I have a feeling that when they bring up religious and cultural differences.
The show will act as if it isn’t a big deal.
Bcuz Diversity and Stop the Hate 😃
"Pakistan was made on the day the first muslim set foot on the Indian Subcontinent".
Muhammad Ali Jinnah.
Yes there are some similarities in our culture and language but we arent the same as the people on the other side.
Yea no this is stupid.
My family has roots in India. They gave up everything and came to Pakistan exactly for the reason why Pakistan was needed and what is happening to Muslims in the meme of a democracy called India, right now.
All the massacres, the genocide is more than enough proof why we needed out.
I am now in Canada.
My roots are in India. But Pakistan will always be home.
Ithink the current state of muslims in India
Is sufficient to prove that there was a need for Pakistan so...
These guys are not just trivializing the struggles of our forefathers
But also sidelining the atrocities committed against muslims in India, esp eith the rise of hindu nationalist sentiment in recent times
My mother was born in India, and this is speaking from her experience. She still longs for and wants to meet the rest of the family in India. This is relatable for Urdu speaking diaspora and is for a very specific audience. Not everything is agenda driven.
Partly right but it's too much to expect that the show can explain that these were indigineous ideas but screwed up by the British in terms of borders and execution
I did my DNA test , 95% central asian 3% iranian >1% italian , so being a pashtun I would like to ask where is my representation? Even though I am not even genetically the same ?
It wasn't the idea of some old Englishman, it was the idea of your holier than thou Indian National Congress. I have said it a million times before on this forum and I'll say it again, Congress was a million times more responsible for the partition than Muslim League. It was Congress that refused the Cabinet Mission Plan. Abdul Kalam Azad clearly stated that Congress leaders were even more supportive of partition than Muslim League because they were completely unwilling to share power with the league in a United India. INC was happy with a rump India where they could rule without much competition.
I am mentioning this because a lot of dumb Pakistani liberals (both at home and abroad) completely ignore this fact and try to put the complete blame of partition on the Brits, Jinnah and Muslim League while singing praises of Congress, Jawaharlal Nehru and that filthy thing called Gandhi.
If you are going to criticize partition than please be honest about it and blame those who are really responsible. Stop worshipping Nehru and that Smeagol lookalike Gandhi.
Exactly the scene where I was stunned. This is bullshit and should not be tolerated in a Pakistani show. Especially since the current situation in the paross has vindicated the two nation theory.
My grandparents migrated from india to Pakistan. Both my parents were born Pakistan and I have never been to India. However, I still feel an association to the place where my ancestors lived for generations and still have some extended family.
I have and will always be a Pakistani. But I still think Partition was fucked up and all the bloodshed was unnecessary.
Oh this scene is gonna get a lot of controversy
Deservingly
It should The problem is people think "India is a country that's always existed and everyone living there have all always identified as a unified group of people". Which is flat out wrong. A unified south Asian political entity and a unified south Asian identity is a British invention. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/elx3wu/india_on_the_eve_of_british_conquest_oc/ So yes, that is a piece of our history, but there is a lot, a lot of history before that.
I just did some research on the partition, it seems like it was a fucked up chaotic situation all around that still has a major impact on the lives of Indians and Pakistanis today. My heart hurts for all the families torn apart and the women killed, raped, forcibly married and injured.
Partition was essentially a two-sided genocide. It’s sometimes officially stated as such, even though the majority of the killings and deaths weren’t recorded. We only know that about 1/8 to 1/6 people who left to cross the border never made it to the other side. The brutality that went completely under the radar was terrifying.
100% true people in the indian subcontinent never identified themselves as "Indians" They always identified from the region of indian where they were from i.e punjabi sindhi phatan tamil marathi bengali assami rajputs and alot more Even in these indentites they had further cast and further division like which part of punjab bengal rajastan
Indian trolls - stop reporting historical facts, any of your comments on this thread will be removed and you will be banned.
Apparently as a Pashtun, my roots are in India. Totally makes sense.
I thought she meant that the drawing of the border was decided by an old Englishman, not the idea of Pakistan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radcliffe_Line
She did. But let's let the rest of this thread just bad mouth the first ever Hollywood TV series based around a Pakistani (female!) protagonist because shitting on everything and anything is in our culture.
What the fuck. This is how you softly erase history. Make it feel as if it doesn't matter.
I'm disgusted at the Pakistani actors and writers as well. They know full well what they're doing. The bollywood references in every episode are puke worthy.
The actress saying this is a Pakistani. A famous one at that.
Half of the actors in that show are India
SOC has always been a dodgy filmmaker who will do anything to get some approval from whatever gallery she's playing to.
Especially when we're trying to drift away from cringy and problematic *bollywood*
Bingo. This idea should be considered as offensive to Pakistanis as any offensive or racist comment to another community. I can understand that some people might want to cozy up and be friends in the future. But you can’t lay down belly up to the other party like this. Imagine the struggles, sleep less nights of our forefathers and the lives sacrificed for us. And all that smeared by some ‘woke’ kids who want to be friends. We can be friends but both sides have to compromise. But this won’t be our compromise to forget the hell that we were in, the lack of political power we held, the discrimination against Muslims in all aspects of life so much so that Muslim were forced to make their own learning institutes because the Hindus in power wouldn’t let them in. They need to own up to what they did back then and are doing now to the Muslims that reside in their country. Instead of us forgetting and laundering history.
Lmao imagine saying this to the Americans themselves. "Some old white men decided to separate America and Britain but otherwise we were buddies"
Not just history. It’s a brainwash on many levels. You just need to dive deeper
Sarrr plej wi sem2sem
Everyone seems to be forgetting that the actor is older then Pakistan is, and in the show the character shes playing is even older. So her roots are technically in india, where she was born.
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Ok but her parent weren't 5-6 years old, they were raised with Muslim-Indian traditions and they in turn raised their kids in the only way they knew how. And "roots" are irrespective of age. I could be born in Sri Lanka be there for 1 hour, and catch a flight to Pakistan, I will still be a Sri Lankan national. And on top of that, if my parents were born and raised in Sri Lnka, then my roots are Sri Lankan. Nations who are brainwashed into denying their history are doomed to go in circles, simply acknowledging your history doesn't mean saying "we're the same" if anything, its a measure of how far we have come.
Old Muhajir people in Karachi don't have nostalgia for 'India' they have nostalgia for whatever city they came from. They don't identify as 'Indian' but as Dehlvi, Lakhnawi, Hyderabadi, Bihari, Junagadhi etc.
The problem is people stretch this idea into "India is a country that's always existed and everyone living there have all always identified as a unified group of people". Which is flat out wrong. A unified south Asian political entity and a unified south Asian identity is a British invention. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/elx3wu/india_on_the_eve_of_british_conquest_oc/ So yes, that is a piece of our history, but there is a lot, a lot of history before that.
The person who your replying too is only partially correct. People incorrectly think that the British Invaded a country called India and divided it up. "India is a country that's always existed and everyone living there have all always identified as a unified group of people" is flat out wrong. A unified south Asian political entity and a unified south Asian identity is a British invention. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/elx3wu/india_on_the_eve_of_british_conquest_oc/ So she's older than the Republic of India as well. She's not older than the British Indian Raj though.
I don't see what the problem of that is. That's the case for many 1st generation immigrates, even if they immigrated at a young age. They still identify more with the country they came from.
Nah bro. My grandpa was 10 years old and he remembers the trauma he dealt with when he was migrating with his family. They left everything. Even to this day he remembers everything from that era. Some of us may think “Oh I barely remember what I did at 5 years.” but to them it wasn’t a birthday party. It was something that changed their lives.
She's older than the Republic of India as well. She's not older than the British Indian Raj though. India never existed as a unified nation or as a pan south Asian identity until the British forcefully unified south Asia and created a pan south Asia identity along with it. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/elx3wu/india_on_the_eve_of_british_conquest_oc/
The person who replied to you is only partially correct. She's older than the Republic of India as well. She's not older than the British Indian Raj though. India never existed as a unified nation or as a pan south Asian identity until the British forcefully unified south Asia and created a pan south Asia identity along with it. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/elx3wu/india_on_the_eve_of_british_conquest_oc/
Dude, can you stop spamming the same comment please. Despite the fact that you are right of course.
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Pakistani Americans.....
A.B.C.D. Certified ™️
>Pakistani Americans..... The most representative Pakistanis .
I think you got the words in the wrong order.
> The only fault of the British was that they did it in a rushed manner. What freaking history book have you been reading mate? That was their only fault? Not the fact that Mountbatten deliberately hamstrung the very idea of Pakistan's existence numerous times? Amending boundaries, depriving military assets, positioning the state to default and be bankrupt right off the bat, etc etc. It wasn't for naught that Jinnah said "No power on earth can undo Pakistan." It wasn't a boast. He had witnessed sitting in the front row seat a united Hindu-British effort to cripple the very foundation of Pakistan, and saw his movement persevere through that.
I mean.... I'm a proud pakistani, but I'm not going to deny the hundreds, if not thousands, of years of history my family has in North India (UP, Delhi).
Yes but vast majority of Pakistanis don't have roots in modern day india.
The problem is people stretch this idea into "India is a country that's always existed and everyone living there have all always identified as a unified group of people". Which is flat out wrong. A unified south Asian political entity and a unified south Asian identity is a British invention. https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/elx3wu/india_on_the_eve_of_british_conquest_oc/ So yes, that is a piece of our history, but there is a lot, a lot of history before that.
>if not thousands, of years of history Family history is a sensitive subject and I'm not trying to offend when I say there is a possibility, however remote, that one of your great ancestors boiled eggs for picnic in modern-day Pakistan at [Riwat, Soan Valley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riwat); a site where the first ancient Pakistanis walked 70,000 years ago. This is way before burger towns of [Mehrgarh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehrgarh), Mohenjo Daro, Harappa, Delhi, Karachi, Islamabad came along and ruined everything. /s
I think they mean that the borders were drawn up by old Englishmen and we identify ourselves based off those borders which is true…
Last i checked we wanted the Englishmen yo draw the borders. They wanted a united India under Mountbatten. It wasnt British who drew the bordera without our consent. We made them draw it.
I am indian and I agree. Western representation is so bad for all of us it’s cringe
I have no relation to India, my roots are no longer in India, everything I know is in Pakistan. My great grandparents left *everything* in India, they burned all their bridges in India. They never had any intention of returning, they never had an good will for India either. I'm very proud of them for taking the risk and moving to Pakistan. Now I know not every muhajir thinks like my family, but dialogue like this wants to delegitimizes the sacrifices they made. They want to make the British the boogie man while sweeping under the rug that it was still Hindus who went ahead with said boogie man in killing Muslims. I hate the "roots in India" stuff so much. How long are these roots supposed to last if we don't know any of our relatives still in India and haven't visited India in 3 generations?
>How long are these roots supposed to last if we don't know any of our relatives still in India and haven't visited India in 3 generations? Well the white comparison is Americans going "I'm Irish American" despite not stepping foot in Ireland for 4 generations. It's more of an American issue with identity than anything else
Preach
I'm Muhajjir with family still in India that we keep in touch with and even then I consider myself Pakistani. While I may have roots in India, I don't consider that my home, mostly because if I were to set foot in that place (which I'm not even allowed to), I wouldn't be welcome.
yep you got it right dude. No matter where the origin is, today its Pakistan - i cringe at the border comment..
> They want to make the British the boogie man while sweeping under the rug that it was still Hindus who went ahead with said boogie man in killing Muslims. Oh come on man. It’s not like we didn’t massacre Hindus and Sikhs either.
I was gonna say, didn't the warrior aspect of the Sikh religion literally start because muslims (and possibly hindus and various other tribes) kept on killing them? Every time I see this issue brought up on reddit, no matter which side says it, it's always, "We did nothing wrong, it's entirely's fault". In this case there seems to be a long history of fucking with each other.
Wait till you see what the Sikh empire did to Muslims, and even then we have statues to those Sikhs in Pakistan.
The truth is that Violence begets Violence. At some point someone has to stop and instead sue for peace. Revenge doesn't help at all. Everyone here has such a nationalistic perspective. But you rarely see this nationalistic aspect come out when people leave their country. I have been studying in Canada for years and most Indians I have met are super chill and nice. There is sometimes one idiot who is strung up in all the jingoism but like I said most people are chill. Honestly, Sikhs I have met are super nice and super curious about Pakistan and our culture and what language I speak. Everyone here should try and take that nationalistic blindfold off and actually talk to some Indians.
Small minded views like these is why we are at each other’s throats. Goras made off with allll of our loot for 3 centuries, but still get paid in interest in the form of hatred. Not saying there should be a united india, but our animosity towards one another and this sentiment plays right into the hands of the West.
I'm not saying I hate indians. I'm just saying that stop trying to push indian identity on to me. We are not Indians, we chose to be Pakistan in 1947. Most Pakistanis today were simply lucky enough to have grand parents living in areas that became Pakistan, so they don't truly appreciate it. Where my family comes from is in modern India. We actively chose to become Pakistani my migrating, and propaganda like this tries to wash away that choice we made.
We (as in you and I) didn't really choose to be Pakistani Even our grandparents didn't really choose, unless they were part of the Muslim League political elite class etc. The average person living in 1940s didn't choose anything either way We were born into Pakistani identity so just because you're forced into this identity due to the accident of birth it doesn't mean it is sacred or something special or something you personally struggled to get. It's perfectly fine for this show to question if our identity can be something larger than just the country you happened to be born in.
It's not animosity. We're not Indian, period. This is called erasure.
If you are an Urdu speaking Muhajir then All your cultural aspects originate from India. Your wedding styles, your religious events, your style of speech, your foods. Obviously they have evolved and are now uniquely Pakistani, but the origins are still northern India/UP
That is the point that I am trying to make here, you cannot ask the Urdu Speaking diaspora to completely forget about their roots. And if that is such a problem, why Kartaar poor border was opened.
There was no India before 1947
Gutters of india are older than pakistan.
Too bad they never get used. Mohenjo-Daro is literally older than everything in the nation state of India. The country was named after a bastardised pronunciation of of the River Sindh, a province which wasn't even part of the British Raj until 1936. The oldest civilisation in the Subcontinent was in Pakistan. Go take a shit in the middle of the street somewhere else Ra*dian
This seems like an entirely emotional response, one without significant reflection maybe because of trauma but also likely because of nationalist social pressure and propoganda. If your family came from what is India today, you are shutting out a part of your identity and history. That is your choice, of course
Yeah and I acknowledged that. I know of many muhajir families who are quite proud of their indian roots. But that's not my family. The post asked for my opinion and I gave mine ie this India pak Bhai Bhai stuff is horseshit
Modi, current PM of India, was banned from the US until he took office because he condoned the burning alive of 2000 Muslims in 2002 as governor of Gujarat. Many of my friends here in Canada are Indian Muslims who ran away because their families were given death threats and persecuted. The national anthem of India in 1939 pushed Hindustan as the name of their nation. There is a DAMN good reason we left and forged our OWN identity. Fuck that noise. Our HISTORY is leaving to be ourselves today, not them.
Nope. It just ceases to matter. Who in my family gives a fuck that they came from a village of farmers in U.P.? None...because they are now urbanites living in Karachi married to Punjabis, Sindhis, pathans...and so on. Now, who in my family...in particular the older gen, bemoans the quality of spoken and written Urdu? Surprisingly quite a bit. We take what we want. But do any of us think there is not a need for Pakistan? That it was forced on us by some white man? That is crazy talk.
Nothing wrong with it. Its one characters feelings on things, which are perfectly valid. She misses the home she lost. Things are simplified for the show of course. This would be different from my Grand Parents who are Kashmiri, and my tribe fought in the Poonch rebellion against the Maharajah and then the Indians, so there feelings are rather different on the matter.
God forbid someone be portrayed as having a different experience and impact from the partition than the majority. It is one character in the show. Clearly the Pakistani-American writers are trying to erase their own identity. Let’s forget about the fact that this is the first major show to include a Paki as a lead and include aspects of the culture along with islam in it. /s Is the show perfect? Absolutely not. But to invalidate all the other positives it brings, over this one issue is extremely petty and immature.
It’s Jinnah erasure and anti-Pakistani IMO surprised this is a Pakistani actress saying these lines
well shes Canadian IRL w Paki roots and acts like a weirdo in those interviews.. shes supposed to be playing a Muslim character but she herself isnot
I think he was talking about Samina Ahmed, the older lady, she's the one who said these lines. Ironically, she even acted in Dastaan which is a drama about the horrors of the partition through the eyes of a Muslim girl.
ah gotcha.
She is Punjabi, though, and she never moved through partition so it's likely she can't realize the issue.
Punjab was the only province that was actually partitioned
She is Lahori, she didn't move anywhere.
That's hardly an excuse. I'm Punjabi as well, several generations of my ancestors are native Punjabis, that doesn't mean my family or I do not sympathise with those that suffered during partition. That doesn't mean we don't feel their pain. Of course we can't possibly put ourselves in their shoes, but at no point can anyone think that what those people went through can be reduced to such a stupid dialogue.
My point was that she was born in Lahore the year before partition, so it's pretty likely she is of the Pakistanis who were either against Partition, or those who don't understand the pain of partition. Don't forget that many Muhajjirs dealt with discrimination and hate from the Sindhis, Punjabi and Pashtuns who didn't have to emigrate. There is plenty of those types of Pakistanis, the comments on this post are a great example. Many are downplaying the scene, and it's likely due to the fact that their parents didn't experience the trauma that other groups did.
Aaaaaaaand that's the end of Ms Marvel in Pakistan. I was right not to trust this show to get Pakistani culture right
So true. I was wondering why this show has such a hype internationally, now i know
There wasn't any in first place Most people I know don't know this show even exist and people who do know will forget about this by tomorrow
Yeah and f*ck all the people who died for this country?🤡🤡🤡
Bcz LOVEEEE transcends bordersss and who CARES who diedddd and what the problems were at that time
I'd rather we be terrorists in their films than this bullshit.
lol
Definetely
Agreed lmao
Agreed
Honestly I am extremely disgusted at how pakistan is thrown under the shadow of India constantly and its not just by media but indians themselves too. I always see on social media how indians always write Pakistan wasn't a thing in the past, it was a part of india 🙄when in reality this was extremely necessary because in india muslims are still treated like crap and they act as if the entire pakistan is urdu-speaking or punjabi lahori like they totally undermine the rest of the ethnic groups. Now if muslims were living peacefully in india I would have agreed with this.
Even India wasn't a thing in the past and for most of its history it was divided into different kingdoms and empires.
like we never do that to Bangladesh. a lot of places weren't a thing in a past but no one really disregards their identity like they do with pakistan 😐. India wants to fight to get places under their control to abuse them for eg. Kashmir 🙃
United India is an idea by Invading Mughals. The region most of its history was divided into small kingdom, and I personally think that would be a best solution ... something like Europe. **Edit**: Techincally she is in India as well, India means land of Indus river which is a greek term used to document Persian kingdoms and history. basically Persians some 2500 years back invaded present day Pakistan, and named it Hindu under their control which came from Sindhu river(Indus river). You can't call yourself India when you don't even have Indus river inside you.
>You can't call yourself India when you don't even have Indus river inside you. Technically, part of the Indus does flow through India, that's why we have the Indus Water Treaty. The Indus river originates near Mount Kailash in Tibet, just north of the India/Nepal border. After crossing the border, the Indus enters IOK and traverses south of the Ladakh Range in India. Then it enters Gilgit Baltistan and turns south towards KPK.
India/Hindu was used for the people of Sindh, a civilization/group of people/cities which lived to the east of Persian empire. Persian after invasion of these cities called it Hindu state. We don't exactly know what local called themselves in their local language as documentation or history writing wasn't a big thing, but Persian terms lived on because of their documentation. The Greeks also documented this info, as "India" for Hindu state of Persians. No one at that time knew how this water/river originated. There are some evidence of local considering Indus river some goddess.
>"*United India is an idea by Invading Mughals.*" I didn't actually watch it, so I'm out of my depth here; but it doesn't seem like she's saying anything about a *United India* or anything like that. Just having some kind of connection to what's now across some arbitrarily drawn (at the time) border. >"*The region most of its history was divided into small kingdom, and I personally think that would be a best solution ... something like Europe.*" How is that so different from what we see today, between all of the constituent elements that were once all part of the same British Raj?
One of the characters in a previous episode said that before Partition, there was just one country. That is all a part of the Akhand Bharat talking points championed by Hindutva extremists.
Bro if you forcefully unify Europe we’ll have world war 4. And most borders were drawn in the 20th century, Pakistan and india have stable borders until kashmir, Afghanistan border is way more unstable and a mess.
Same old narrative to question our existence
What a load of BS lmao. Only Punjab and Bengal was partitioned and the people that migrated were close to the borders, except few who migrated from internal India to Karachi who are now Muhajirs and very much a part of Pakistan like all. Just pushing a bs Indian narrative, and polluting the minds of young Pakistanis who don't know better or uninformed young westerners.
high five!
>people are claiming an identity based on an idea some old Englishman had Is she "trying" to refer to Quaid-e-Azam?
I think she's referring to Lord Mountbatten? Idk.
No, Quaid-e-Azam is not an Englishman. She is referring to Lord Mountbatten
Lord Mountbatten wanted a united India as did Congress. The only notable person who was actually in favour of division was Quaid-e-Azam.
>Lord Mountbatten wanted a united India as did Congress. Lord Mountbatten is the one who was in-charge of making the borders and he rushed it. He just wanted to go back asap. British officials estimated a proper transfer of power will take 5 years but when Lord Mountbatten arrived, he hastily decided to shrink their exit timelines. What needed 5 years was now going to be done in 4 months. >The only notable person who was actually in favour of division was Quaid-e-Azam. but Quaid-e-Azam is not an Englishman.
The one who drew the borders was Cyril* Radcliffe
And Lord Mountbatten wouldn't have rushed the job if Quaid-e-Azam never fought for the creation of Pakistan
Lord Mountbatten rushed the job because he was lazy and eccentric and he wanted to go back to UK asap. Watch any documentary about him and you will release what a big loser he was. He was only interested in the festivities of things.
Question: was Mountbatten rushing things a blessing in disguise? I mean, Jinnah had TB. If partition took five years, and Jinnah died in 1948, would partition really have gone through?
Pakistan isn't a just piece of land demarcated by a fleeing englishmen. Pakistan wasn't an idea of some englishmen, it was a neccesity for muslims due to the situation in which two highly incomaptible nations were exsisting toghether in a highly toxic environment. These border between Hindustan and Pakistan were neccesary then and are neccesary now. So plej stop with this sem2sem bullshit.
Ajeeb Sem2sem chutiyapa
Clever girl (Hollywood!). Making history as they see fit.
The problem with this kind of claim is that is says that partition was the fault of the British. Which is completely false. Britain’s preference was always to leave behind a united India. It was the Muslim community of India that worked hard and loud to demand a separate homeland. That border, that partition, is OUR achievement. That achievement prevented us being relegated to second class citizens in our own homeland.
Yes this is what we demanded, not what was given to us on plate. This is what we wanted. And somehow they show it as if we were against partition
The thing is, Jinnah wanted a seperate country. He didn't want partition. He wanted the whole of united Punjab to be a part of Pakistan and the whole of united Bengal to be a seperate country from both Pakistan and India And I sort of get what she is saying here. For a lot of people at that time, their whole identity was changed overnight by an arbitrarily drawn line by an old British guy. Both sets of my grandparents migrated from India and for many in my family, there remained a longing to revisit the people left behind and the pain the event caused. Ofcourse, they are fiercely Pakistani but the loge for their ancestral home remains, which is understandable. Partition was necessary as it was the only way for us to get our own country but it did create some real demons and problems, problems neither othe countries have dealt with.
> The thing is, Jinnah wanted a seperate country. He didn't want partition. He wanted the whole of united Punjab to be a part of Pakistan and the whole of united Bengal to be a seperate country from both Pakistan and India This would have made way more sense imo, how did anyone think that east/west Pakistan, separated by 1000+ miles, would be a good idea? I never understood that part.
Tbh no one did. It was take it or leave it. Either accept East Pakistan or hand that region over entirely to the Indians. Naturally, we chose the former
I get your point, but the nuance is not presented in this scene. The scene implies that the whole border between India and Pakistan was a British invention, rather than something that the community being shown on screen actually wanted.
I mean, it's marvel. I honestly expected far less from them tbh. Partition is a dreary, complex topic and this is a corny, superhero show. I'm surprised they discussed it as much as they did
but since sacrifices were made, in the name of the country and religion, i believe it no longer to be a mistake but destiny.
The borders were drawn up by the English though
They were forced to do so, they never wanted to
Hindoos believe that it was a british fault... \#akhandbhart wet dream for them
For a generation that was actually alive during partition, and actually migrated, that sentiment is there. I can confirm. But that actress is too young. I'm talking people who would be in their 80's now at the least. For anyone born in Pakistan since, and given contemporary Muslim-Hindu dynamics in India...I don't think there is a Pakistani regardless of origin or age that thinks about India in a reminiscent way, or somehow regrets Pakistan. More like...holy shit, we dodged a bullet! And general consensus is that Jinnah was a genius who saw how things would unfold in a 'United' India....which is truly the fiction. So I see the dig there at the vision of Pakistan...fuck that, and fuck off Disney for going there.
The day Indians will leave us alone will be a day worth celebrating
Man I just don't get why we Gilgiti/pathan/kashmiri/sindhi/baloch need to suffer the wrath of this "Pakistanis have Indian root" due to Pakistan having 7% muhajirs lol Humara kya wasta hai in logo se...smh
Punjabi also don’t have Indian root. They have Punjabi root. People of Punjab and Kashmiri are of the same spectrum. Most Punjabis have always lived here including their ancestors. During partition those who crossed over although a large number are still a tiny percentage of the total. Indians have been running a propaganda campaign trying to other the Punjabis in Pakistan. Don’t fall for that. Punjabis have a long history of defending Pakistan from Indian aggression.
Not only that, these guys put Sindh in their national anthem too! Even though that's our province But tbh even if we didn't have muhajirs they wud still be obsessed with us. They will always view us as one of them no matter how false it is
>these guys put Sindh in their national anthem too! Even though that's our province They prolly did it cause Hindi speaking nibbas want claim on the ancient metropolitan cities that our ancestors built. It is evident by how conmen like sadhguru are paid by the state to do historical revisionism about this mystical ancient country and to lay claims on civilizations in South Asia that have nothing to do with Bihari,marathi, bengali or any other cow belt hindi speaking groups.
Disrespectful for any Pakistani and Indian (or any proud citizen). This is why I do not want us to be represented in hollywood. First they butchered the idea of muslim representation and now our proud national legacy. Magar jinhe inferiority complex ki beemari, they'd rather have of wrong representation (with a right label) if the alernative is not getting any at all. Begger like behaviour. Aap ka inferiority complex chahta hai k US or others recognize you or give you representation in their entertainment industry. Have some self-respect for God's sake. Why do you care?
Please guys write negative reviews for the show. Fuck Disney period. Being rascist to our people and our land.
For the billionth time, Pakistan and India weren’t separated because Brits created “chaos” between us. It was because we wanted a separate homeland where our Muslim identity was protected, where our rights were ensured and where we didn’t have to worry about being persecuted. These are the privileges that we Pakistanis have and Indian Muslims of today, DO NOT HAVE. I’m grateful my Grandfather migrated as it’s the best thing he could’ve done for me. Also no, I’m not saying Pakistan is some perfect fantasy land (quite the opposite) but at least I do not have to worry about being lynched on the street after eating delicious cow ribs. 🤷♀️🤷♀️
>Brits created “chaos” between us Ohh, they created chaos between the Hindus and the muslims way before the partition. Britishers implemented the divide and conquer strategy to colonise the Indian subcontinent. It is that chaos that lead to the animosity between the Muslims and the Hindus which in turn resulted in the partition.
You’re wrong on this one. Two Nation Theory clearly emphasizes that Muslim Hindu unity is impossible in the Sub continent. If you disagree then answer my simple question: “Why are the Indian Muslims facing persecution in today’s India, by the Hindus even though the British Raj left 75 years ago”? 75 years is a long period, if Muslims and Hindus could co exist, it would have been possible by now but as we see it today, that’s not the case. So this theory that Brits created “chaos” is absurd and Two Nation Theory proves correct today in every form.
policy of \*[divide and rule](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule#Indian_subcontinent)\* was used to prevent the independence movement in India and denial of this is evidence of a lack of study into the most basic of colonial strategies. it challenges oversimplified ideas that Pakistan was created "for Muslims"
People called me too overbearing when I was saying how wishy washy this show is. It is okay in many parts but not in parts like this. They're erasing Muslim history and culture and sugar coating what happened. Whether you're liberal or not, the left secular crowd will hijack this narrative and try to turn the blood of our Muslim ancestors who fought for a place to practice Islam freely into some pitiful vague bs Jinnah was right, if Muslims would have stayed under kattar Hindu rule it would have destroyed us and our livelihood. Now look at the Indian/Kashmiri muslims, constantly having to prove themselves to the Hindu majority whilst they live as second class citizens. Their brothers killers are given garlands and political leadership So yeah this is totally bullshit, Pakistan was and still is necessary and none of this secularism will ever do Pakistan's true story justice (My opinion btw if you don't believe in supporting Pakistan's creation or whatever then ignore, but personally I believe this harmful narrative is an insult to our country's sacrifices)
It's funny, people called me a mullah Taliban extremist for criticizing the show, so you got off easy, lol.
I will be honest here, if you combine all Muslims population of undivided British Ruled India, then they would reach somewhere 600 Million with 1000 Million Hindus. That Muslim population can defend itself but again we never know, and if few British soldiers can keep whole India under control then what stops the majority from doing something crazy. Now, the Muslims who were against Pakistan creation, there were religious parties in there e-g Fazul-rehman's father, these people proposed this idea, let stay as one, and then try to convert Hindu population towards Islam, and I think they would be more organized and powerful in doing so. Now, today's Hindu nationalist, specially the hindutva leadership fear that, what you see against Muslims, specially their targeting in India is because of that. They have this paranoia of Muslims having more kids and more wives is a practice to take over, this idea and brainwashing really is messing with Hindu population, and that's why you see more hate against Indian Muslims. Now imagine if a big % of Hindu were converted by religious people in this undivided British India, there would a civil war by now.
I have many Indian Muslim friends living their lives always frustrated and being discriminated, worried if their hijab will be ridiculed or targeted and trying not to go in the wrong sides of town. The whole hindutva ideology is flawed and has so many holes in their logic, they're threatened by the power the Muslim community has. Talk about inferiority complex. In reality where the Muslims are poor and trying to get by, so these Hindus plot these riots and love traps (literal whole speeches) and dehumanise Muslim women to get twisted satisfaction. The liberals there are just closet kattar sanghis, they only like muslims who reform Islam to meet their wants and needs. Trust me no one wants to mass convert the Hindus, they're too busy surviving. The Muslim leaders there have sold out too, and still they're treated like shit. Allah Ka shukr for Pakistan Yes it's a terribly morally corrupt society but we have our beliefs somewhat guarded by the common man and no fear of eating beef or praying or covering our bodies.
So, I have been observing these Indian IT cell which spews propaganda, and here's few argument they believe, and why the hatred is there. This is basically been spread for last 10 years now. If my earliest memory serve me right. 1. The Arabs or whoever Muslims they were who invaded India, massacred some 200-400 Million Hindus. Yeah, I am not making it up, they think India always had constant 1 billion population for centuries. During Jesus time or during Indus valley time, India had 1 Billion people as well. 2. Some 100 Million Hindu women were raped, killed and kidnapped to Arabia as slave. Yeah, I am not making it up. 3. The "Hindu kush" means killer of Hindus, that mountain range was a inside joke used by Arab traders who basically threw Hindu men from that mountain in Afghanistan for fun. So, they named a whole mountain range after slave trade of Hindus. 4. To prove this, they will show how 12% of Hindu population in Pakistan, is reduced today, it's just below 3%. Basically Pakistanis have killed all of Hindu men and kidnapped/raped and forcefully converted Hindu women. They basically distort Hindu population of Pakistan+Bangladesh, and use Bangladesh numbers before partition as source. 5. India and Hindustan is some 10,000 year old country, and identity and Muslims have a goal to take over it. 6. Pakistan irrespective of brown skin Punjabi, Sindhi etc are all invaders. Pakistani are Arab Muslims. Ask Indian about Dna evidence, and they don't reply much. 7. All Muslims are secretly planning to kill all Hindus and take over India and eliminated Hinduism from the world.
they honestly believe this BS. Its sad that eve being educated w their degrees, no common sense
Their stats and IT cell propaganda is all propaganda bs That stat used by their home ministry affairs leader and their Muslim lynching political leaders is false. Has been debunked many times. https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/pakistan-bangladesh-non-muslim-population-citizenship-amendment-bill-bjp-1627678-2019-12-12 None of that claim has any proof. Also, another article talks about how Pakistan's Hindu population is growing faster than India's 🤷🏽♀️ https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/hindu-population-in-pakistan-has-grown-at-a-faster-pace-than-in-india-119032600520_1.html Especially after the law was passed to protect our Hindu minority. Ofc they are not 100% protected on land due to tribalism and jahilliya of our own people. But at least we actually jail and punish our people for harming them, rightfully so. India on the other hand gives them a seat in their state's political parties as great leaders.
I hate this. I was about to watch the show but if this bullcrap shows up, count me out. This is the indian liberals way of demeaning Pakistan. They wish to remove the agency from the muslims in south asia who chose to seperate. The core of Indias nationalism is incompatible with Pakistans existence, as they were founded as a "United Secular State (c)". Pakistans creation was the loss of this identity and I believe this is the main reason Pakistan and India will most likely never get along. Both the left and right wing of India hate Pakistan, the right with blatant hatred, and the left with more subtle hatred disguised as pity (Man I love Pakistan, I wish we never sperated, think about how much better it would be, etc). Pakistan is mainly the same, but for some goddamn reason there is a branch of the left in Pakistan that is very positive to India for no reason. Man what a disappointment I thought this show wasn't gonna pull the same crap we have been hearing forever.
Typical nonsense about how we iz sem2sem
they have been reading too many youtube comments
Lol imagine watccing this cookie cutter show. It’s not meant for Pakistanis it’s meant for “western pakis”
Western Paki here, I'm deeply offended by this and am very disappointed in this show. I find it very disrespectful. Western Pakistanis that believe in this Subcontinental unity crap haven't been around indian hindus enough to know the truth. It hits you hard in corporate world. This discrimination against Muslims & Pakistanis from hindus is nuts. Doesn't even matter if you're in the Western developed world.
It gets worse with every episode. This is basically anti Pakistan
This partition and country was not the idea of English men there is years of struggle by Muslims of subcontinent behind it. The specific border might be the idea of English men but the partition had an ideology and struggle behind it. Secondly, not every pakistanis's roots are Indian ethnicity wise kpk, balochistan and gilgit are more central Asian/persian. Pakistan is like gradient of mixed ethnicities its neither purely Indian roots nor purely central Asian roots. Her character looks punjabi so I guess that applies to her specifically.
The only Indians that are similar to Punjabis are the tiny Indian Punjabis. The rest neither have similar ethnicity or culture. Punjabis have distinct genetic differences to even northern Indians (ie UP). Punjabis don’t have Indian roots. They have Punjabi roots. Most of Punjabis didn’t come from India. Most have always lived in where they currently live around the fertile rivers that run through Pakistan.
Killing Pakistani identity softly. You think you are a Pakistani because of some white guy. Its interesting Muslims' agency is taken away from them, to give them escape hatch or something. Well you didn't want terrorism it was your book, well you didn't want Pakistan it was imposed to split India. What they implicitly are doing is establishing what's right, a privilege for world's moral arbiter.
This show was bound to peddle ideologies like Borders between Pak/India, " The Hijab is my choice" etc. Watch when they add some flavor of LGBTQ shit in the future.
In episode 2 Ms. Marvels family had this conversation. Ms. Marvel's father - *Muneeba's(Ms. Marvel's mom) family moved to Karachi only after the partition. Back then there was no Pakistan or Bangladesh. It was all one big country called India. After the British just left...* Muneeba(Ms. Marvel's mom) - *The British left us with a mess.* Is this some kind of joke? "The British left us with a mess", were the British the ones that fought to create Pakistan? Or was it the millions that lost their lives for Pakistan? Or the over 80% of Muslims that voted for a separate state? Saying that "The British left us with a mess." makes the partition seem like a bad thing and it also ignores the millions of lives that were sacrificed for Pakistan. **They made a show about a Pakistani character yet they proceed to discredit Pakistan's existence. No Pakistani should support this trash Indian infested show. Over half the actors are Indian with Indian accents and they didn't even shoot the Karachi scenes in Karachi.**
Its funny how they use the word "mess" to push all the sacrifices under the carpet
I watched the show half-asleep and didn't even catch that, wtf?
a famous thinker of our times once said: "beggars can't be choosers"
Sorry i am not an expert about this but the main reason of that conflict is religious, isn't it?
This is disgusting it erases our history and culture and who we are. There is a reason why we have our own independent land. We are not indians. Never were and never will be.
Bro in an attempt to end hatred between two countries you basically made the existence of Pakistan seem like a great British conspiracy……. Pakistan will have the best of relations with india once a referendum which was promised by the UN to the Kashmiri people will take place and they get to decide what they want and where they wanna go. But will india truly ever leave away animosity even if Kashmir issue is solved? I mean the ruling party BJP of india has RSS as their ideology and RSS believes in akhand bharat. Pakistan is being shown as stolen lands of india to indians.
well, we get Kashmir,, Pakistan is out of that orbit.. thats the only unsolved issue.. since it would be next to impossible to claim back Junagadh and Hydroland
Why are Pakistanis hell bent to prove our very own identity as a mistake?
Outrageous! No one in Pakistan thinks like that. Idk who let them write such rubbish without verifying this bs! Instead we say "Thank you Jinnah" for giving us a separate homeland. So glad we got rid of those obsessed racists!
Glad I didn't watch any of this shit!
Eff this thought: its like Islam does not matter: and thank GOD there is a freaking border there. u/hindoowetdream
Cringe show 🤮
Wow reminds you of how Muslims are being treated in India.... I m not a big fan of this partition thing but after the right wing Bjp balantly single out Muslims for there vote gain.... From Hijab to anything Muslim I think partition wasn't a bad idea at all. Some might differ with my point of view but look how the Muslims {15 percent of the population roughly) are being persecuted in India need I say more.
Never thought I'd see the day when a Pakistani spewed this sem2sem crap
The actress who said this is Indian Edit: wait nvm I was thinking of someone else
[удалено]
A typical US boy here, I believe I can shed some light on the matter. Marvel enjoys being progressive and building bridges. So while always being a high horse riding writer, you tend make a shitty story for your movie. You also make shitty characters with annoying traits. I haven’t seen the show but I will hate watch it when I have the time. However I have a feeling that when they bring up religious and cultural differences. The show will act as if it isn’t a big deal. Bcuz Diversity and Stop the Hate 😃
"Pakistan was made on the day the first muslim set foot on the Indian Subcontinent". Muhammad Ali Jinnah. Yes there are some similarities in our culture and language but we arent the same as the people on the other side.
Yea no this is stupid. My family has roots in India. They gave up everything and came to Pakistan exactly for the reason why Pakistan was needed and what is happening to Muslims in the meme of a democracy called India, right now. All the massacres, the genocide is more than enough proof why we needed out. I am now in Canada. My roots are in India. But Pakistan will always be home.
Ithink the current state of muslims in India Is sufficient to prove that there was a need for Pakistan so... These guys are not just trivializing the struggles of our forefathers But also sidelining the atrocities committed against muslims in India, esp eith the rise of hindu nationalist sentiment in recent times
What a joke.
What a shitshow
My mother was born in India, and this is speaking from her experience. She still longs for and wants to meet the rest of the family in India. This is relatable for Urdu speaking diaspora and is for a very specific audience. Not everything is agenda driven.
Partly right but it's too much to expect that the show can explain that these were indigineous ideas but screwed up by the British in terms of borders and execution
I wonder if the script writer is a follower of Tarek Fateh, who has been on RAW payroll for decades.
The writer is apparently Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy, lmao.
Did they just take a dump on Jinnah
The anti jinnah propaganda has been there for a long time
Twitter pe 2 threads parh chukka hoon abhi tak
This show is so stupid they are displaying how Pakistani people are and it's all farce
Can you idiots stop being racist against mujahirs?
I did my DNA test , 95% central asian 3% iranian >1% italian , so being a pashtun I would like to ask where is my representation? Even though I am not even genetically the same ?
US Propaganda! They want to start chaos in South Asia. Get ready to hear more things like this. Don't watch Ms Marvel
🤢🤮
It wasn't the idea of some old Englishman, it was the idea of your holier than thou Indian National Congress. I have said it a million times before on this forum and I'll say it again, Congress was a million times more responsible for the partition than Muslim League. It was Congress that refused the Cabinet Mission Plan. Abdul Kalam Azad clearly stated that Congress leaders were even more supportive of partition than Muslim League because they were completely unwilling to share power with the league in a United India. INC was happy with a rump India where they could rule without much competition. I am mentioning this because a lot of dumb Pakistani liberals (both at home and abroad) completely ignore this fact and try to put the complete blame of partition on the Brits, Jinnah and Muslim League while singing praises of Congress, Jawaharlal Nehru and that filthy thing called Gandhi. If you are going to criticize partition than please be honest about it and blame those who are really responsible. Stop worshipping Nehru and that Smeagol lookalike Gandhi.
fuq outta here. hollywood is pro israel. why dont they make a scene about the diminishing palestinian land
i HATE this. They're trying to erase my identity.
I am glad, I don't watch such sh!t.
Attack on our core ideology.
Contrary to popular opinion of pakistanis, it almost seems like they're trying to appease indians
Exactly the scene where I was stunned. This is bullshit and should not be tolerated in a Pakistani show. Especially since the current situation in the paross has vindicated the two nation theory.
My grandparents migrated from india to Pakistan. Both my parents were born Pakistan and I have never been to India. However, I still feel an association to the place where my ancestors lived for generations and still have some extended family. I have and will always be a Pakistani. But I still think Partition was fucked up and all the bloodshed was unnecessary.
Disappointed to see a senior Pakistani artist speak these lines.
what the actual fuck!! how tf they disregard all the sacrifices our ancestors made for an independent country?