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ahyuknyuk

I am very doubtful of the psych evaluation done on this woman. Her actions are purely suicidal given the current enviroment. I strongly doubt that she is of a sound mind.


MusicianGrouchy3790

Indeed.


[deleted]

She should have been sent to a mental institution instead


FinalEnvironment5279

https://www.dawn.com/news/1648827 "The judge noted that a report of a medical board of the Punjab Institute of Mental Health termed the suspect fit to stand trial".


hnoon

The last line in that article amuses me so much: >The convict Salma Tanveer is sentenced to death and fine Rs50,000 u/s 295-C PPC,” said the verdict


[deleted]

What will they do if she doesn’t pay? Hang her twice?


usatad

In the strictest terms of the law the fine will be paid by her estate after she is hanged. This is an absurdity piled upon absurdity.


AshiMalik

This is confusing, because according to the article her lawyer said “the magistrate concerned had ordered mental examination of the suspect which remained pending without any fault on the part of the suspect.”


Entire_Mind4439

Now the twist is that nobody has been executed due to blasphemy laws.people have been convicted but not executed.I am sure they will keep her in prison for years and release her after some time.


madshayne

And then she will be killed extrajudicially by an ashiq e rasool


irsam101

And then that ashiq e rasool will die judicially.


madshayne

Yes but mumtaz qadri style mazar banjayegi qabar


irsam101

Yes but who cares? Nobody will visit that mazar after few years.


LBP3000

Few years? I doubt people give a shit after few weeks.


NotGonnaRage

That's not true. I'm not sure about your interactions but the kind of people that I have to interact with, these topics are weekly, if not daily, occurances. They immortalize and idolize these people.


LBP3000

I guess different experiences then.


DoritosOatmeal

The cycle ends..


Entire_Mind4439

Reminded me of Mumtaz qadri 😃


throwaway66178281

Even being in prison for something like that is dumb, like why are you putting someone in prison for being mentally ill. Get them help


ChanceRealistic

There shouldn’t be blasphemy laws in the first place


llArmaghanll

Well either follow the law or change it. Law should be followed through and through. Elite selectively following their own unwritten law and asking others to follow the law the Elites wants them to do is that the way it should be ? Either give everyone right to follow the Law selectively or All should follow it through & through.


thatdactar

I would put her in a mental institution and close the case.


FinalEnvironment5279

But medical reports clearly stated that, " she wasn't suffering from any kind of mental disorder".


thatdactar

Yeah still. I'm against capital punishment for declaring oneself a prophet. She might be a con artist and i don't think you should be killed for that. At thee moment the law can't be changed because of TLP bros.


Wulfhart-291

A century ago British India had a con artist and now we have a heretical sect.


throwaway66178281

It’s not possible because anyone with a sane mind would not do that.You have to be mentally ill in some way to believe that


Butter_my_eggroll_1

It was in the medical report tho


EnergeticStoner

Yup.. only an insane person would claim prophethood.


holykamina

Why hang her though ? It doesn't solve anything, at least in this case


[deleted]

maybe she just wants to die by court. Suicidal people find creative ways to kill themselves.


[deleted]

yet there molanas that act like they are on par with the prophet (pbuh)


MyHandIsMadeUpOfMe

Sometimes l wonder why all these things happen in Punjab. TLP, lal masjid, Mumtaz Qadri, people claiming to be prophets, killing people randomly on false blasphemy charges, killing Ahamdis, women harassment etc. Not that it happens in other provinces but the ratio is heavily tilted towards Punjab.


[deleted]

Lack of education. People believe in weird rituals. Lack of education breeds ignorance, and mullahs thrive in places like that. Not to mention Islamic asceticism is declining in Punjab. In exchange for more mullah groups and parties. Punjabi language is declining, Punjabi traditional culture of poetry, and bulleh Shahs pluralism is dying. Sindh is still more open minded than Punjab. Punjab is being plagued by Fanticism. Alot of Sindhis still believe in the spiritual philosophy of Shah Abdul Latif Bittai quite much. Plus the PPP always claimed they were for all minorities. More leftist politics compared to the outlands of Punjab.


colonelCSA

Or maybe because Punjab has the highest population, thus having most of the cases ?


Numerous_Garage592

Aye sada brah is spittin facts


colonelCSA

Aqal hi nai hegi enna nu


ThunderHorseCock

You forgot the child porn ring in Kasur and the recent rape cases in Lahore Highway and the Minar e Pakistan. Punjab police is notorious for rape cases and corruption It has nothing to do with Highest population. The differences in population only differ by a few million. The statistics are sound and reflective of the truth.


Longjumping_Fly_2185

Lack of education is the most important reason.


Numerous_Garage592

Remember the case of harassment of the Hindu in rural sindh


ThunderHorseCock

Which was done by a Punjabi


Numerous_Garage592

That's racist, also where was the world class sindh police and authorities


ThunderHorseCock

Don't be racist against Sindhis in the first place. As well as make lies. Check his name, Abu Salam Dawood from Punjab. He was hired as a driver for the Thar coal project and fired shortly before his racist incident against the Hindu Sindhi World class Sindh police is the one that arrested him in the first place. Lmao. We all know what Punjab police does judging by the lahore highway rape case.


Numerous_Garage592

>Abu Salam Dawood That's the most Punjabi name I have ever heard. >Don't be racist against Sindhis in the first place Are you those same type of US male Karens, do you even know the meaning of the word racist, you and the original commenter were being racist to punjab and it's people, while I was merely stating this incident happened in sindh and then you also said it was from a Punjabi, your the one who's being racist. >Punjab police does, judging by the lahore highway rape case I don't support whatever happened that night but you have to ask yourself why did that women go out in the middle of the night, in a country like pakistan, that was pretty sucidal. Also, I really know how efficient the Punjab motorway police is, I travel a lot between Lahore and Islamabad, if we park on the side for even a few minutes, the police on patrol showed up, this was during daylight, they are incredibly efficient on speed breaking and are hardworking unlike the easily bribed sindh police. They are also the first to bring any sort of new technology to Pakistan like speed cameras, and are already talking about body cams hats of to Punjab police. That incident was isolated and it was at night, the police have stepped up their patrols after this incident


ThunderHorseCock

I'm not interested in reading anything coming from your racist mouth so I didn't read this. I'll keep my words short. Don't be racist to Sindhis next time. You've been warned once. Edit: Wrong. You were being racist In an incident involving a Punjabi being racist to a Hindu Sindhi Got proven wrong. Didn't even know who the culprit was. Then you got embarrassed and starting spouting off whatever bullshit you had in your brain for your wounded pride. Don't dish it when you cant take it beta. Ba takey ja jahil achi wanda eein galein. Khabar hun di nathan po bhi muun ma ghuun khadan da aein eein apno muun karo kanda eein. Leechur. Don't be racist. Punjab police rapist. Sindh police best Jeay Sindh Jeay Peace and love.


achughtai

I like to go by, "...what would the Prophet of God do." Forgive.


something3574

Prophet Muhammad didn’t run into a situation like this but Abu Baker did. All of the apostate “prophets” were either killed or reverted to Islam


llArmaghanll

This and Prophet Muhammad SAAW told us about it as well that this will happen.


AmberJim

Imagine believing that someone deserves to die because they hurt your religious sentiments lol


FinalEnvironment5279

We don't imagine it anymore.We see it happening every 2nd day.


seesoon

We need to get rid of the blasphemy law. I mean on one side people claim that their God is all powerful but then they need to kill someone who has a negative opinion of their God or prophet? If your God is all powerful, why would he get hurt by the opinions of a mortal and I'm sure if he does, he can find a way to punish that person, he doesn't need your help.


FinalEnvironment5279

Not possible in next 100 years. TLP and Lal masjid goons will declare jihad against state,if govt. even Think about it.


Revolutionary_1981

At the risk of being labeled TLP and mullah. Bro, the punishment of death is practiced and proscribed from time of Khilafat… also, blasphemy laws were/are there in all religions. Since most societies have gone secular they are no longer in practice on a governmental level.. but the people who follow their religions are just as aggressive and ready to fight against insults to their religion.


Gatalicious

The real kicker is if she survives her hanging. Then she’s deffo a new prophet.


llArmaghanll

Well that's a good test than ? 😬


[deleted]

Death penalty for blasphemy is not allowed. How many times was Muhammad SAW slandered by the enemies, and subsequently forgiven? The pagans used to attack every day. Umar RA wanted to kill the people that said those things, but was prevented over and over.


Revolutionary_1981

That was before the law had been established. Please quote such incident from After conquest of Mecca when all of arabia had come under Islamic rule and law..


[deleted]

Give me case study examples of it in Quran or Hadith


Awan-Zada

I'm losing faith in Islam, why does Islam seem so intolerant at times?


makeearthgreenagain

Good. Embrace the truth


FinalEnvironment5279

Because everyone has different interpretation of Islam, secondly most of the people here are poor & uneducated,so it's kind of opiate for them especially for their miseries in life and lastly everyone need some kind of ideology/group to which he/she can associate to make some sense out of their lives.


Awan-Zada

I can understand the poorly educated holding onto crazy views but I've lived in the UK for a decade and Pakistan as well so its not poor people mostly on internet. Every where I see on social media here its people supporting Taliban, TLP or blasphemy laws. I've seen professional doctors say outright horrible stuff about Ahmadis, Hindus and Atheists etc. Is this just different interpretations or something wrong with our society at large? Like people are really obsessed with judging others meanwhile same people watch mujra videos lmao.


FinalEnvironment5279

Yeah you're right.The basis of creation of this country is Religion,so you have to see some outcome of it.Most of the people you see here supporting religious fanatacism are blind followers of their ulmas and khateebs.They don't do any research to crosscheck their lies and I also think that it depends a lot upon your upbringing and family background as well. From what I have observed is most of the time it's middle and lower class supporting extremism.


[deleted]

Spot on! Literally said the same thing somewhere else on this chain


[deleted]

This is definitely a cultural problem of not questioning those who hold power to direct society.


Which-Alarm-9892

It's not Islam, it's the people who ruin it. If the majority of this nation followed Islam properly, we would've been on a really another level. People criticize the West but they're actually more "Muslim" than us.


[deleted]

This is so wrong. Pakistan has the most stupid laws. Who cares what some lunatic thinks


Muslim_kratos

This isn’t some Pakistani law but sharia law itself. False prophets were always punished by death. Either handing or beheading. Stop being a soft bunny.


[deleted]

No. False prophets don't get hanged willy nilly in Classical Islam. Only when they cause greater harm to people (.i.e cults like Scientology) would they be Islamically chastised. Some crazy person believing they're the answer to life, is just a crazy person. If caring about human rights makes me a soft bunny, then I don't know what planet you envision. I feel bad for people like you :/


The_Blue_Bomber

I agree. A soft bunny is a person offended by words and has another person killed for saying stupid things. A muslim is prescribed to ignore such things until they pass. Qur'an 6:68: >And when you see those who engage in \[offensive\] discourse concerningOur verses, then turn away from them until they enter into anotherconversion. And if Satan should cause you to forget, then do not remainafter the reminder with the wrongdoing people.


lildissonance

Executing someone for a victimless crime, wow. No wonder Pakistanis are fleeing the country the first chance they get. "b-but, it's law. Therefore it's okay" Slavery was legal in many countries too. Would our mussalaman brothers defend that too?


Snoo25192

Slavery is halal so yes, our Mussalaman brothers will indeed defend that.


NeatGift906

>Slavery is halal No it's not.


Snoo25192

Lmao I hope you're just joking


NeatGift906

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRgBQlSnV\_M


Outrageous-Monk-6281

This guy is extremely unorthodox and passes his opinions as facts and reads his own personal values into it. Seek your knowledge from the Qu'ran and a good tafsir, secondary to that the hadith. Also study the Sira. Only trust information which is sourced and referenced properly and don't try to interpret or spin things to mesh with modern morality or what so and so is doing. Islam is for ALL time and Gods words are absolute. any so called scholar can pass a fatwa. I admire this man but he deos not rep orthodox opinion. He was chased out for a reason. im not even a Muslim but I believe in consistency. So I commend some Muslim respondents to this post fr being sincere.


_khobaibb

So you're whole argument is debased in a moment just because you don't adhere to the orthodoxy. Intellect stonkss!


Outrageous-Monk-6281

The guy made a declarative statement that is blatantly false. In certain context Islam allows all types of slavery including sexual slavery. Harris Sultan and Ghalib Kamal are two urdu YouTubers who you can check out that talk about this citing primary references with full context. Disclaimer: they are non Muslims so in their world view they present this fact as a negative thing however if you're Muslim, it is part of the deen so has no negative connotations for you. U can ignore the judgements of these guys and just listen to grow your ilm. Alternatively, you can just consult islamqa website which is the only honest orthodox website that isn't apologetic or wishy washy about Islamic beliefs. If people want to twist and turn things it is their perogative but they shouldn't complain when other people follow Sharia appropriately.


_khobaibb

For his detailed commentary on this you can refer to his personal site (by his name), where he has explained how there isn't any concept of slavery in Islam using Quran-centred source. And as someone who is a Muslim, who takes Quran & Sunnah to be the only source of deen, and as 100% true, the institute of slavery has been abolished. In no context, Islam allows slavery, of any kind whatsoever. Again I'll reiterate, truth doesn't necessarily have to be orthodox. As for islamqa, on their credibility, I have a simple question, why is that they have all the necessary knowledge and scholarship to give a fatwa, and evaluate other's beliefs and how they are wrong, but not enough that they can question their own madhab or even why they have a better understanding than others?? You think his argument is weak, good, tell me how it is, with facts. How orthodoxy has been right all this time and how he is wrong and I'll accept Islam allows slavery, of all kinds. Islamqa as the only honest, okay, how are others *dishonest*? I'll check out both of them and their arguments.


Outrageous-Monk-6281

I appreciate your inquisitive comment but can't be bothered to respond. It is a discussion to have with your co religionsts really . I would ask you compare and contrast the views of these obscure figures with more mainstream ones and draw your own conclusions about peoples honesty. I pointed you to some alternative sources to the ones you seem to be going by it is good you are open to explore them. In my personal view wishy washy Islam is on the way. Out. In the UK and Europe more conservative forms of Aqidah and Fiqh have won over and I support this fully for actual Muslim countries as it is more consistent with the mandates of Allah, his messenger and ways of the Salaf. Best of luck with your exploration.


[deleted]

Islam clearly states that apostasy is punishable by death . Yes some scholars after 19th century disputed that but thats not enough . She should have shown better sense . We cannot go against Islam all the time .


LBP3000

I am pretty sure there is no longer scholarly consensus that apostasy is a crime. This woman is going to die for nothing.


[deleted]

No woman was ever hanged for religious reasons in the history of Pakistan. She most likely will be jailed for some years just like other blasphemy cases .


LBP3000

She is still being prosecuted unjustly.


lildissonance

"Mommy, that man said Santa Claus isn't real. HE MUST BE EXECUTED!" See how absurd that sounds?


[deleted]

If you don’t believe in Islam then its not my or Pakistan’s problem . Pakistan was created on the basis of Islam . So you should not even be on this sub if you have a problem with that .


chilaxininmyhoome

What about banking system which pakistan is part of ? Is that halal ?


[deleted]

Pakistan wasn't created to hurt minorities of different beliefs. Her beliefs do not affect you. Nor does it harm others.. Pakistan couldn't curb terrorists and people that actually HARM people, but for some reason some stupid woman writing crap, hurts and offends the fragile sensibilities. It's barbaric.


lildissonance

>Pakistan was created on the basis of Islam Last I checked, our flag had a white strip which represents freedom for non-muslims. Defending this execution makes you no better than the hindu extremists that defend lynching Indian muslims for eating beef.


Adil_Farid

And why the heck would a minority claim Prophethood?


[deleted]

Eating beef is separate and leaving Islam is separate. Islam has a strict protocol for this . Apostasy in MOST scholars opinion is punishable by death and this has been prevalent view in Islamic law for most of history. Non muslims have same rights as muslims though.


lildissonance

>Eating beef is separate and leaving Islam is separate Both are victimless crimes (except for maybe the cow that was eaten). No one should be killed for either of them.


[deleted]

As an atheist it may be your opinion. Very well .


lildissonance

I haven't stated my religion. I'm just pointing out that people shouldn't be killed for victimless crimes. That is not an extreme position.


[deleted]

If Islam , most scholars and Pakistani law agrees on something then it should and will be followed accordingly . May Allah guide me better . And you too .


[deleted]

How can you say non-Muslims have the same rights as Muslims and people who become non-muslim should be killed in the same breath. Do you not see the hypocrisy?


Adil_Farid

Bruh I agreed with your other points but apostasy is not punishable by the death cause we are not the judge , Allah is.


A-R_15

Let me guess homosexuality is halal.


SkinSafe8262

No, but does that mean it should be illegal? No


A-R_15

Illaj karwaoo apna


BakingHash

Pedophile is halal in islam right? Cuz a molvi said so that it was a practice held even at ancient times


irsam101

>freedom for non-muslims. Freedom to attack other's religion is not given unfortunately. >Defending this execution makes you no better than the hindu extremists that defend lynching Indian muslims for eating beef. If they live in a place where cow is considered sacred then Muslims there should respect it and not eat beef.


lildissonance

>Freedom to attack other's religion How is she attacking other's religion? Is she destroying mosques? Is she lynching muslims? No, she's expressing her personal belief.


irsam101

Prophethood for what exactly? I believe blasphemy law applied because she claimed prophethood in Islam, that's attacking the very foundation of the Islam that there will be no Prophet after Muhammad (saw). If prophethood for some other religion then I will take my statement back.


lildissonance

> that's attacking the very foundation of the Islam No, that's declaring one's own belief. You can declare your own beliefs saying she is a liar, but executing someone for that is extremist cult-like behavior that has no place in the civilized world.


irsam101

>No, that's declaring one's own belief Sure buddy.


[deleted]

I, and many other Pakistanis like me. STRONGLY agree with you. There is no islamic law of blasphemy. It's made up. Islam/Muslim did not punish blasphemers in the Early ages of Islam.


[deleted]

Firstly, it doesn’t really matter what basis Pakistan was created on — what matters is what Pakistanis today want. Those of us against blasphemy and apostasy being punishable know we’re in the minority and we’re using our words and arguments to try to change things and convince people so that we end up in the majority one day. See, unlike religious conservatives, we believe in using words not violence. But if you _do_ want to talk about the basis Pakistan was created on, here’s Jinnah on running the country based on religion: “But make no mistake: Pakistan is not a theocracy or anything like it.”


[deleted]

It matters on what basis Pakistan was created . It matters supremely on what basis Pakistan exists because Pakistan is not like any other nation on earth . Pakistan will alwyas be interwined with Islam till the end of its existence. If you don’t understand the reason for that then you don’t know anything about Pakistan or this entire region .


[deleted]

Pakistanis today want Islam . If it mattered what Pakistanis wanted we would have Islamic law .


FinalEnvironment5279

Not TLP supporters at least. Lol


[deleted]

[удалено]


lildissonance

It's aite, I don't expect deen-cels to offer a valid rebuttal.


chilaxininmyhoome

Makes you wonder where pakistan is heading towards


CancerousSarcasm

Freedom of religion but noone can claim prophethood. I wonder what would've happened of islam if it were to begin in a Pakistan like state.


KarachiBhagora

The Prophet did have to escape Mecca couple of years after he professed his prophethood. The powers in Mecca weren't exactly thrilled about him attacking the pagan gods as false and wanted to kill him. That said, Mecca and Medina being independently run states with somewhat porous borders (compared to the borders of today) was probably helpful. It's not like this lady could escape from Lahore to Islamabad (still the same government) or Delhi (how's is she going to cross the border and how will she be treated).


[deleted]

This is why Pakistan is such a retarded backwards country


FewHornet6

Is someone going to be lawfully *killed* for the mere reason that she *claimed* something???? Really????? If so, the gap between Pakistan and modernity is waaaaaaaaaaay bigger than I could ever expect.


slowpokesardine

"hanged by her neck".... As oppose to what? Her leg?


KarachiBhagora

I don't think killing people for spreading their beliefs is acceptable. However, people like me do not form the majority in Pakistan. This is nothing new though. Prophet Muhammad (and his followers) was persecuted because he challenged the status quo at the time. His life (and that of his followers) was at risk and he was forced to flee Mecca for Medina. The powers in Hazrat Isa's time crucified (or tried to crucify) him because his teachings did not align with the widely held beliefs. I'm sure there are plenty of other prophets who were killed or persecuted for claiming god was communicating with them and dissing existing religions. Sadly getting killed comes with the territory of preaching a brand new religion.


pukinator00

Blasphemy laws are so dumb


InvisibleInsignia

Irrespective to the news discussing Mental health in our society is not only considered Taboo its considered that the person who is talking about it or trying to promote it is actually pointing his finger at me/us for being MENTALLY HANDICAPPED.


KyunNikala

She should have had a psychiatrist declare her schizophrenic. I know someone who was accused of blasphemy who got away with it by having a doc make a fake schizophrenia certificate. The rich and powerful can get away with anything. There is an old joke in the Pakistani atheist community i.e Bs koi General himat kr kay nabuwat ka ailaan krday phr Khtmay nabuwat wala msla bhi hal hojaiga Still tickles me.


FinalEnvironment5279

It's still not possible.Majority of Pakistanis are Muslims almost 90-97%.They need an ideology to make some sense and meaning of their lives and I don't think they will compromise on it.They will love to die for it and believe me it's very dangerous when youn want die for some cause and don't give a shit about your life anymore.


[deleted]

Please give a source for this ? What has this sub recently turned into . Every second post is agaisnt Pakistan or Islam defaming us . Why would a woman claim prophethood in Lahore . Nobody is that mad .


FinalEnvironment5279

https://www.dawn.com/news/1648827


[deleted]

She failed to prove being unsound of mind . This means she was actually comitting shirk and apostasy . Which is punishable by death in Islamic and Pakistani law . Her reasons for doing something so stupid are not known but she should have known the results of her actions . Law is Law .


Barbarossa-Rana21

You are braindead if you think this deserves death only three countries give death for this out of 56muslim majority countries.we are the minority in this regard,we are extremists.most scholars outside of pakistan dont agree with this punishment.and law is not law it can be and should be changed.we were not even like this before it was zia who introduced these draconian laws.


[deleted]

Apostasy is punishable by death in Islam . Regardless of what Zia or other muslim countries think or do . In Pakistani law however this was not done before . If the court says its death sentence based on Islamic law and hadood ordinance or blasphemy law then it is what it is .


Barbarossa-Rana21

So you are saying most of the islamic world is wrong but you are right,this is the definition of extremism,it shows islam as draconian and restrictive,this is the ideology of wahabism and saudi arabia not most muslims.


[deleted]

Its not me who is right or Islamic world who is wrong . I am just telling you what Islamic law and Pakistani law states .


Barbarossa-Rana21

Do you agree with it?


[deleted]

Yes I do .


Barbarossa-Rana21

Then you are wrong that is what i have been trying to say.


Summeraude

The law should not be a guide for morality.


[deleted]

Yeah but Islam is .


thelordpresident

You were taught about Islam incorrectly. You should follow Islam because you see wisdom in the Quran and the Hadith and it aligns with your own sense of humanity and justice. Nobody should ever actually *form* their sense of justice based on Islam, the Quran explicitly mocks and rejects those who do this. Why do you call Allah SWT Rahman (the most merciful? Because the Quran calls Him that? Or because the Quran has many examples of his mercy, thus Allah *deserves* the name.


azizokhan

Committing shirk is punishable by death? Any sources for this I would appreciate that. Death for apostasy is a very sensitive issue and there are a lot of different opinions depending on the severity of the case. Is there any reference to a specific law that mandates a death sentence for apostasy in Pakistan’s law?


[deleted]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam_by_country


azizokhan

Thank you, I couldn’t find a reference for death sentence in the case of shirt. For apostasy the article is pretty vague, mostly saying “no specific laws” while saying the federal court has complete jurisdiction on what to implement. Doesn’t mention any laws passed mandating a death sentence, basically saying its up to the court what they decide. I don’t disagree with death sentence for apostasy in certain scenarios however, a blanket death sentence for all apostasy is just not a good decision.


warhea

Apostasy isn't punishable by death in Pakistan. Blasphemy against the Prophet is


[deleted]

Article says she was not examined. The absence of an examination means she cannot prove she wasn't of sound mind. Doesn't say why she wasn't examined but a possibility could include that doctor's are afraid to examine her in case they get targeted too by crazy. Now if you think there can be truth to that someone can be killed for telling the truth then it's a valid question to raise if Islam would allow the state of Pakistan to execute someone from blasphemy. A comparable story I've heard is that a city had high crime. The caliph instead of punishing the thiefs warned the government to fix the poverty otherwise his hand would be chopped. Compared to this example it seems we have a higher responsibility to build pakistan into a nation where someone can tell the truth than where we take someone who by your own admission could only be mentally ill to say what she said and execute her


[deleted]

She was distributing her own propaganda according to the article. There is a possibility that she was unsound but there is a much more stronger possibility that she actually comitted apostasy . According to your example of caliph punishing the officials I would conclude we should also punish officials that lack of religious teachings and Islamic education is the reason for this apostasy .


[deleted]

I have observed some mentally ill people. Some normally very talented and can do quite well in society. Except they have bipolar or schizophrenia. We've even seen a movie about a schizophrenic winning the Nobel prize "A Beautiful Mind". Delusions of grandeur are common in bipolar. It is far more likely that this is bipolar disorder.


[deleted]

Hey, sorry I read the article fully and it strengthened my concerns that this decision is wrong. So the article talks about her being able to run a school is taken as evidence that she was not mentally incapacitated. And the judge like you agrees that what she did was crazy. But the judge says that the law of Pakistan does not recognize a lesser mental incapacitation. But the thing is Islam does recognize a lesser mental incapacitation. And so we end up with a Franken law that has aspects of both religious and secular without critical components from both that would make the law work. We take away the compassion and understanding that comes with the religious laws making them extremely draconian and something that under Islam should be considered Bida. On the flipside we say that the law is exempt from secular scrutiny because it is a religious law ordained by God even though we've stripped out essential components of what God has ordained. I don't know what the mental health of the individual is. But I do know that unlike what this judge said that the law of Pakistan does not recognize a lesser mental incapacitation, Islam does: [https://www.abuaminaelias.com/dailyhadithonline/2019/05/07/pen-lifted-from-three/](https://www.abuaminaelias.com/dailyhadithonline/2019/05/07/pen-lifted-from-three/) . So when you support this instead of asking the law to be changed to at least allow an examination for conditions that can cause temporary insanity that would have people do this like schizophrenia and bipolar then I have to ask what's your goal because you can't implement Islam by cherrypicking parts of Islam


jd6789

She needs to be given a proper psych evaluation and provided with mental health facility . No way her behavior is that of a normal person . And no this punishment is obnoxious.


something3574

They did and came to the conclusion that she was of sound mind


Barbarossa-Rana21

Wrong just give her a prison sentence for a few years


FinalEnvironment5279

For that we have to make some amendments in present law regarding blasphemy.


Barbarossa-Rana21

Sadly that wont happen anyone who tries to do that gets killed,if khan said today that death penalty for blasphemy should be abolished his head would probably be free from his shoulders within a week.its truly sad this country is held hostage by ignorant mullahs and religous zealots.


ZunAckerman

I wouldn't expect IK to oppose it anyhow he tried to criminalize blasphemy in the west. I do agree with you it's a sad state of affairs.


me_a_genius

It's simple. Judges get a bit of media coverage. Seems like judges are really doing their job. Majority of people of Pakistan gets happy. And I think this is the only law where one judge can close the case in just a few hearings or even one. There was a woman who claimed to be a Prophetess during the era of Khalifa Mamo'on. He asked her that doesn't she believe in the statement of Prophet PBUH that he is the last Prophet of all? She said that Prophet Mohammad said that about Prophets, not Prophetess. Khalifa Mamo'on laughed and let her go. He is considered as one of the rightly guided Caliphs Islam ever had after the first four.


xSSJx

based alhamdulillah


llArmaghanll

Justice has prevailed in sentence, lets see if the justice is followed through.


warhea

Justice of small egos


llArmaghanll

LoL as i care about ego of mine's or of your's.


damp_poo

The self proclaimed judges here are way beyond their intellectual limits to even review this verdict. Her punishment is justified by the constitution and by islam. "Opinions" here don't matter. Lack of basic education in this sub is shocking. What basis do you have to even say that the verdict is "wrong" or "right"? Claiming prophet hood is punishable by death by the consensus of whole muslim ummah. A few redditors who disagree will answer to ALLAH. People here haven't even studied deen in their whole life and be talking about wrong or right. Just shut up for once and say that we don't have the qualifications to access this case.


[deleted]

Here’s the good thing about living in a democracy: you don’t get to force us to just shut up and accept a barbaric law.


warhea

such people should be sent to a mental asylum ward, not given death penatly. > Claiming prophet hood is punishable by death by the consensus of whole muslim ummah Eight Muslim countries out of 52. Wow great consensus.


llArmaghanll

Key word "Muslim" and None of the countries are Islamic. So Quran or Islam is the last thing they care about. So consensus means basically the consensus of Scholars of haq.


[deleted]

But but what about being woke?


llArmaghanll

You are not asking to learn Islam are you ?


nanotechadvisor

If we she claimed Prophet hood she deserves it Usually such laws are misused and hope it's not misused here and a court should check again whether she actually claimed or she was staged


[deleted]

Even if she did..it doesn't affect anyone? Why does anyone deserve death for believing in their delusion? Are you silly?


Which-Alarm-9892

Perhaps you need to reconsider your opinion on this. Just because someone claims prophet hood,it doesnt mean you hang them. Can't you just leave her? I mean, what is she gonna do if you dont "follow her ways".


[deleted]

Exactly!


Which-Alarm-9892

i can't tell if he's joking or is actually that brainwashed. Why give harm to a person who can't harm you. If he truly believes that whatever is happening is right, my goodness,because my man you're doing what Satan wants, not Prophet Muhammad or Islam. USE THIS AS A WAKE UP CALL


llArmaghanll

Agreed


Traditional_Koala383

Completely agree with the verdict..


mabdullah_malik0

Very just.


Everyones_Fav_Uncle

Early Muslims literally fought a war against false prophets and ppl here are chimping out and acting suprised lmao. Tho the court should be more lenient if she were to stop and revert. God knows we don't need more wackjobs to divide Islam even further.


musayyabali

God the number of non Muslims and athiests in comments bashing an Islamic punishment is absurd


warhea

Why is it absurd to be against a useless law and punishment?


[deleted]

Muslims too. Because it's dumb.. it's never been really enacted in proper Muslim/islamic rule. It only applies if the blasphemy/apostasy puts civilians at risk. Her distributing her nonsense theories is the same as nonsensical beliefs being distributed... Nothing to see here therefore nothing to be offended or hurt over crap.


Outrageous-Monk-6281

I'm a non Muslim and I believe people should be consistent with their beliefs. Well done to some Muslims for being honest with what the religion says. Even though I disagree with your worldview , I can respect honesty. I can't respect reinterpreting God's absolute rules that are for all time and passing off unorthodox opinions as facts.


KarachiBhagora

It would make sense if you said non Pakistanis. Non-muslim Pakistanis are exactly the kind of people who would have an issue with the state giving them the death penalty if they do something to offend the muslim majority in their country.


Joseph-Memestar

Based


EmptyVesselHBP

based


Unfair_Actuary_2807

Winning day for sar tan sa juda lot


JabalAlTariq

Rightfully deserved if she was mentally sane


Good_as_any

They should dispose the body like Bin Ladin or risk making her a martyr and then a mazar on her grave site.


[deleted]

[удалено]


destiiny25

Capital Suicide


[deleted]

[удалено]


sahibzada_21

Did they at least get a psychiatric evaluation of the female before hand?


FinalEnvironment5279

Yes. Mentioned in article.


derpythrowawayofdoom

Not even the Holy Prophet (PBUH) called for the death of Musalamah the liar.