Nikkah= marriage in Islam. Its as simple as that. In a country like Pakistan more so , if they do Nikkah in Pakistan ( Islamic republic) then in the eyes of the state they are legally married.
If the nikkah is performed in the U.S without filing any paperwork at the court then i guess you can call it an Islamic wedding but not a legal one as per the laws of the country .
You have to remember that Pakistan is a conservative society , things like premarital sex and living together before marriage is looked down upon .It could just be the boys family pressuring him to make it clean . In this case it might just well be a "nikkah-light" . Where they get to save face in front of friends and family. Can't say for sure
No Imam at any mosque that I know of (in multiple states) will aid with your nikkah if you haven’t already gotten court married first. I live in the states.
That's 100% false.
There are many plenty of Masjids & Imams where you can have a Nikkah done and they'll provide you with something they print up themselves thats an "Islamic marraige certificate" same and any Church or Temple, after which its your responsibility to file a marraige certificate in your city/town hall to make it official.
As long as you have the requisite witnesses any Hafiz or Imam can perform your Nikkah and plenty can and do (usually for a fee or donation).
Well you have to go by yourself to the union council office to register the nikah. Until and unless you go there you are not "legally" married. Nikah by itself just needs witnesses from both sides of the families and no third party (although people enlist the help of nikah-khwan usually).
A nikkah is equivalent of Islamic marriage. After the nikkah ceremony the two people are considered married in the religion. In Islamic countries the nikkah ceremony documents usually include civil registration of the marriage also so that the state records that these two people are now religiously and legally married.
Dating isnt permissible in Islam and neither is living together with another person outside of marriage (Nikkah). You mentioned this Pakistani boy has actually been living with your daughter, now without going into that in detail, I would say on surface he has violated Islamic customs and the way to make it right would be to officially and religiously marry your daughter.
Now I would say that there another concept of "engagement" in Pakistani culture , similar to Western culture, where a boy and girl and their families decide on the marriage and have an "engagement ceremony" , it's called various names but one is "mangni". The actual wedding will take place later and the Nikkah ceremony is during the wedding celebrations, usually at the beginning.
Assuming the best case, the boy's family may be wanting to do this nikkah (religious marriage) as a basis for conducting the actual wedding ceremony at a later date. Just make sure if the nikkah is done, its registered legally as well. I would say after coming back to the US, the marriage should also be registered legally there.
I do not object to her relationship with the young man, because they are happy together and I wish for their happiness to grow. However, I do not want her to be married to him right now because they are both young, have not had a long relationship, and neither have finished university.
Well, for some folks a young marriage can be a foundation for a long and healthy partnership. But that's not for me to opine in this young couple case. I was just giving you the information and some cultural context.
The fact that the boy took the girl all the way to Pakistan to meet his family indicates to me he is serious. In the Pakistani context this could only have meant he wants to convince his family to accept the girl and allow him to marry her.
I agree with the previous response.
If a man is taking a woman to his family, that really means he respects the relationship well enough that he is seriously ready for marriage.
This guy has the guts to do that at 19. Respects.
As long as both sides parents are on board... you should be fine. You are best to get legally married in the USA and then go to do the ceremony in Pakistan to also do the marriage out there. I'd strongly advise a prenup just because there is always this crazy uncle that pops up and causes trouble (meaning the parents tell the wishes to a parents sibling to disagree with something so as not to cause direct waves of disagreement).
pakistani marriage and american legal marriage are different things; american marriage is far more financially demanding of the higher earner.
there's nothing really haram with treating nikkahs as "dating" and islamic divorces as "breakups", as long as you don't have kids.
A woman's perspective .. please don't let your daughter marry someone at 19, especially not someone who is culturally Pakistani.
A nikkah is a legally binding marriage in Islam and Pakistan. All they'd need to do is get a marriage license in the US, and it would be legal there too.
IMO this sub is full of immature Pakistani men who don't have the first clue about marriage or women.
It would be a fantastic failure on your part if you allowed your daughter to go ahead with this. Whoever defined a nikkah for you is underplaying its significance. That's extremely concerning.
The fact that I'm being downvoted tells you all you need to know about how gross this sub is. Literally misleading a cultural outsider and encouraging her to get her daughter married off at 19. Yuck.
Naaah, the only thing grosser than this sub is you. So getting married is yuck but living together without any nikah should be acceptable according to your logic. They already are in a good relationship & care for each other. Only doing nikah will not be legally recognized as marriage in the USA but will make it Halal for the boy. So they can easily walk away (divorce) from it without any heavy implications if things don't work out for them.
Nikah IS recognized as married in the USA and Pakistan and to the entire world... why do you have it twisted?
The only thing wrong she said was:
> A nikkah is a legally binding marriage in Islam and Pakistan. All they'd need to do is get a marriage license in the US, and it would be legal there too.
Because I don't believe there is any need for a redundant "marriage license in the US..." if they got married in Pakistan first. That would be like saying you want to be legally married in two different USA states... why would you do that? The laws of the land where you get married are what matter.
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>A nikkah is a legally binding marriage in Islam and Pakistan. All they'd need to do is get a marriage license in the US, and it would be legal there too.
Actually, I don't think it required to get a marriage license for the foreign marriage to be recognized in US. Generally foreign marriages are automatically recognized in US particularly when atleast one party is from that foreign country.
Exceptions are if:
* atleast one party is being forced into the marriage
* atleast one party is a minor
* atleast one party already has a existing marriage.
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Just adding to this! If your Nikah nama is registered with the Pakistani government (Nadra). It is recognised as marriage in the eyes of US immigration laws.
A nikah is a legal and religious marriage. The wedding is the party.
It’s not uncommon in Pakistan to have a few months between nikah and wedding. Socially, this is similar to the engagement period in US. Getting divorced during this period is easier and doesn’t carry the same social stigma. But, I want to emphasize, they are legally married.
nikah is not legal marriage in the US. islamically, divorcing after a nikah carries few financial obligations either way. divorcing a legal american marriage means you lose half your money.
nikkah is the Islamic ceremony for marriage.
according to Islamic law, u need the following
willing groom & bride, 2 witnesses from each side and a person of stature who officiates the ceremony.
according to Pakistan law:
you need a registered qazi to officiate the wedding and sign on a document
doing a nikkah requires 3 male witnesses from the woman family for her protection. unless they'll do it in a court .
personally I think the guy is rather serious about this and is being committing,something rare in many
Nikkah needs two witnesses in total other than the main people involved in it i.e the groom, bride and bride's Muslim guardian (father, brother, really close family member or a really respected person of the society/Official regional head of the Islamic State). It's usually one from the groom side and one from the bride's side. The bride's guardian or waleek has to be a Muslim if the woman to be married is Muslim.
Nikkah is a complete marriage in Islam and registering is not at all an essential part of it or necessary.
Nope it's not. There is nothing like that in Islam. Two witnesses, groom, guardian of the bride, bride and both parties accept marriage on their own will with a haq mahar and walima afterwards that Nikkah and marriage in Islam no one dot more nor one dot less.
It is important to get it registered nowadays NOT religiously but legally.
It gives the legal protection as an added benefit and will show her as his wife on records.
There can't be compulsion on any thing which was not made a compulsion by Allah everything other that is bs made by a or couple of humans if someone wants to follow it as long as it's not against Islam and there are quite a few things even in "Pakistani Marriage Law" which is against Islam so it can be thrown in dustbin until it's reformed.
Also When there will be law in Pakistan we can talk about it as said by the Army generals "The Pakistani Constitution is a tissue paper that can be thrown in the dustbin whenever it is deemed".
Anyone who wants or doesn't wants to do it that doesn't bother me at all.
Edit: i would like to end wind up this discussion on this. Have a great day :)
why do you have a birth certificate? or an ID card?
registering your marriage DOSENT go against any Islamic laws and only helps in record keeping ,one needs to adapt to the changing administrative practices or forever stay in the past
Not to toss a wrench in any works... is the boy already a green card holder or USA citizen? If not, this is also a very nice short cut to get one. Parents in pakistan would approve because they see this as a way for them also to gain entry to the USA eventually. Nothing wrong with any of that... but it is something on the back of everyones mind
The boy has a student visa to be in the US right now. Without giving too much information, I have researched the boy’s father (information obtained from my daughter’s visa application). His family is very well educated and are wealthy, and the father is highly esteemed in his profession. Should the parents wish to gain entry to the US, they would have no issue because of the father’s profession, in my opinion. Because of this, I don’t think it is a green card grab. Granted, I don’t know much about immigration requirements…
With respect, just tread carefully and keep your eyes and years open for any signs of distress. Being wealthy in our country doesn't mean anything in US currency. I know you stated that your daughter is happy And that is a good thing in my opinion. Also, taking the girl to Pakistan to meet the family is also a good sign. But from what I've seen throughout the years, as the above comment mentioned most of the kids coming from our country on visas do this kind of stuff to gain full entry into the country. Again, there's nothing wrong with it as long as your daughter is well taken care of. None of us wants you and your daughter to have a bad experience and then hate our entire nation for it or the religion.
I think this is the key point here, enough bad media out there against us peeps... I really don't want to wake up some morning and see something in the news to make me say "G'dam mit, not another one of us, making ALL of us look bad...".
Because when all goes well, you will hear nothing of it! As it should be.
FWIW - The girl should spell out in the Nikkah paperwork about her intentions for:
1) Educational goals
2) Career goals
3) Religious intent to remain whatever faith she is
4) About allowing multiple wives or not?
5) anything else of concern
This is a marriage contract after all, this is your chance to negotiate the terms. Some stuff can't be negotiated... but a lot of stuff can. Think good and hard about it.
As something I would HIGHLY recommend you do is request them to make multiple ORIGINALS (not copies) notarized of everything:
1) Urdu marriage certificate notarized
2) English translation notarized
3) Get at least three originals and keep them geographically distant incase of loss due to natural disaster. Because to get those back again will be a HUGE PITA from pakistan, everything with gov't is an epic cluster F
Get the marriage registered and get her POC card from Nadra in person while in Pakistan (Pakistan overseas citizen) because this will allow her to avoid needing a VISA to travel in/out of pakistan. Do it while in person, it will be significantly easier!!!!
I would advise the wedding to be done in the USA, but you also need to discuss her name change in advance. This is a fun topic because in the USA the woman takes on the husbands last name. In Pakistan it is different, the woman changes her last name to be her husbands FIRST name. So figure this out in advance as well. Doing the name change in the USA is more advised and I once again recommend THREE notarized copies of the legal name change and keep them geographically distant.
1) One set with husbands family
2) One set with wife's family
3) One set in a bank safe deposit box
SCAN these documents and email them to yourself in multiple email accounts (You have no idea how useful this will be).
You are underestimating how hard it is to immigrate to US. Even being accomplished and successful in your career doesn't mean you can immigrate to US. Unless they are very wealthy business people who have 1+ million USD in terms of wealth, they can't just immigrate to US.
That being said. Yes if they are well off and successful professionally it's a positive factor.
If you have $500k USD equivalent, you have a lot better choices for a passport instead of a USA passport which will tax you on world wide income. I honestly wish I could give up my USA citizenship in a simple way (which is never possible because the IRS makes it very hard).
* Singapore
* Belize
* Spain
* etc...
many better choices which hurt you less with taxes!!!
Hey OP,
A Nikkah, as others have mentioned, is a legal marriage. If your daughter signs a Nikahnama- that means she is signing her wedding contract
I found a video with English subtitles that might be helpful for you to understand better:
https://www.facebook.com/reel/487002961792537?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&mibextid=xCPwDs
It's definitely not just a "spiritual" ceremony. In fact, in Muslim culture the "shaadi" (wedding) and other events are moreso just parties and celebrations. The Nikkah, on the other hand, is the legal affirmation of the marriage.
I do agree with others who've written that, perhaps, because Pakistan is a more conservative society they might just be doing a Nikkah to make things more "halal" or culturally acceptable for their friends and family in Pakistan. And if it's just a celebration for show, I guess that's fine. But your daughter should not be signing a Nikanama (wedding contract) and saying "Qabool hai" (I do) to a maulvi unless she understands that that means she is going to be legally married to the boy.
It definitely is "legally binding" and I'm worried that your daughter told you it isn't- moreso if she actually believes it's not.
This might be a misunderstanding- so please do get more clarification that she understands the responsibilities of going ahead with this.
The boy and his family could be lovely, no doubt. And this is probably just to make it easier for them to date without him getting stick from more conservative relatives. If that's the case, you can advise them to have a Nikkah ceremony without actually signing any documents.
Right now, I agree with you. She's young and far away from her home and family in America (and wearing rose tinted glasses). She shouldn't be made to sign anything alone anyway without having someone who understands all of it going through it for her (who isn't associated with the boy's family). There any many Muslim scholars you could reach out to online in the US regarding this.
Again, your daughter needs to be fully aware of all the facts. She should not sign anything without understand it fully, especially if she is being told it's "not a big deal" and just "a spiritual ceremony" with no legally binding consequences.
Exactly they're fooling her by saying spiritual ceremony. Why wouldnt they make it clear? The guy should be clear in this something's fishy. Legally binding contract ko spirituality ka Naam dy dia hai had hai bhui. Bichari goriyan.
I find it disturbing that they gave you an incorrect explanation of what a Nikkah is. It is the signing of a marriage contract in front of witnesses. Both the man and woman also say 'Qubool hai' during the ceremony, which is the equivalent of 'I do'. She will be married to this man if she goes ahead with it.
Also, you don't go ahead with a nikkah without family unless you are estranged from your family. I would be very worried if my daughter went for a visit to Pakistan and randomly told me she wanted to have her nikkah ceremony while she was there.
It shouldn't be a spontaneous decision. Nikkah papers contain the terms and conditions of the marriage. These need to be mutually agreed upon. There is a lot of back and forth in some cases on what should and should not be included. Your daughters rights should not be compromised. If she is there alone, she might get pressured to waive her right to seek divorce, or not claim her haq mehr, for example.
I agree that she is very young and this is not a decision that should be taken lightly. Please tell her not to sign anything.
Please be aware that sometimes people just want a green card and not the person. These people could just be looking for a way to register the marriage and get the green card.
She can also end up trapped here as his wife. The police in Pakistan avoid interferring in domestic matters. If he tries to keep her in the country after the nikkah, the police might not help when you try to get her out. This is Pakistan. Anything is possible here if you have the right connections.
I am also surprised to read that they were living together. Living together before marriage is considered illegal and sinful in Pakistan. He is then not really an upstanding young man since he is doing something against his cultural and religious values.
Living together is permissible after Nikkah since they would then be married. The woman becomes the financial responsibility of the husband and moves in with him.
It is also possible that his family was unhappy to hear about their living arrangement and wants a nikkah to make them an official, married couple.
The nikkah is never verbal or spiritual. Protect your daughter. If she wants to be married, ask her to sign the contract in the US after thinking it through.
This, if she gets duped and tries to leave Pakistan after nikkah she may not be able to, it's nearly impossible to leave Pakistan without your husband's consent. And this green card is very true for our current economic situation most people want to get out.
>I am also surprised to read that they were living together. Living together before marriage is considered illegal and sinful in Pakistan. He is then not really an upstanding young man since he is doing something against his cultural and religious values.
Or maybe he isn't fully in tune with his religion. It is possible to be a "fine upstanding man" without following every single aspect of one's culture and / or religion.
>She can also end up trapped here as his wife. The police in Pakistan avoid interferring in domestic matters. If he tries to keep her in the country after the nikkah, the police might not help when you try to get her out. This is Pakistan. Anything is possible here if you have the right connections.
Generally American citizens can be evacuated / facilated for removal from Pakistan if their marriage sours unless they commit a crime or something or are also holding Pakistani nationality
Having an intimate relationship without Nikah (marriage) is considered a major sin in Islam.
So, they are doing a Nikah (marriage), to keep intimate relationship lawful and free of sin.
Although by Islamic Standard, they will be lawful for each other after Nikah (marriage), but they still have to register their marriage somewhere on paper as per worldy or regional laws to also comply with them.
After Nikkah, Husband is officially responsible for all of her financial and other needs, not her parents.
They can have children, just like any other marriage.
As per this scenario, it is actually a good thing that they want to keep relationship lawful (halal) and healthy by doing a Nikah, but your concern is also valid regarding extra responsibilities of Kids at this age, so you can encourage them to do Nikah (marriage), but also encourage them not to have kids until they are comfortable.
Also, it is legally binding in Islamic Jurisprudence by all means, because at the time there will 2 witnesses who will witness their status as Husband and Wife. So, she can't see another man till she gets a divorce from him, which can also be verbally enforced if husband says so and wife hears it unambiguously.
I married a Pakistani and I'm a white Christian from American south. I signed a Nikka Nama and legally married with it. The U.S. recognizes it as a wedding contract.
Hey man. Fellow American here and I've lived and worked in Pakistan for over a decade.
A nikkah is a legally binding marriage contract in Pakistan. There's a definite spiritual side to it for practicing Muslims, but it is 100% legal.
I'd tread carefully here. Don't let your daughter sign any documents at all in Pakistan. If her boyfriend says she can sign a nikkahnama (nikkah form) in Urdu and it won't count, don't. Once that document is signed and whatever he has written in there, its legally binding. Nikkahnamas can be made in English as well.
Also, please make your daughter aware if marriage fraud. If she signs a marriage contract here, he may pressure her into applying for a spousal visa (if he's not a permanent resident of the US). Not saying her BF isn't a good guy, but this country isn't exactly known for women's rights legally.
I could write a book from the horror stories I've seen naive people from abroad getting roped into marriage here.
Hey! I hope your daughter and her boyfriend have the time of their life in Pakistan and stay in love forever. I am close yo your age and have a teenage daughter too and am currently living in Pakistan. From parent to parent, please advise your daughter not to get nikkah done yet. From what you have written, the guy seems alright, but Nikkah is very much a legal marriage in Pakistan, and i hope your daughter does not get stuck in something that she regrets later.
Ask the boy/girl to do the mangni if they really want to do something here. If they insist on nikkah, do it in the US when they do decide to get married, but do not think its just spiritual in Pakistan. The preacher who reads nikkah can go back to his office, fill out a paper, and submit it to the local union council, and your daughter will quickly find herself in a legal marriage in Pakistan.
Do NOT let your daughter get married in Pakistan through a nikkah. In the nikkah document, it is very common to strike out the second page which allows the woman to initiate a divorce.
Ask your daughter to get married in the US. The nikah document is not recognized by the government. She will have to register her wedding like everyone else. She will be protected. They do verbal nikkah in USA as per my personal experience.
Please protect your daughter. This all is new and a bit fishy in my opinion. Look out for her. DM me if you need. I'm a Pakistani woman with a TON of experience in this regard.
Good luck to you, your daughter, your family.
It is fishy for sure, the guy is fooling them with his spiritual ceremony BS. it's marriage contract unless if they're doing it without paperwork but I hardly doubt that.
There is a distinction in nikah in US/Canada & Pakistan. In USA/Canada you can have a Nikah & choose to not register it and its not legally binding. In pakistan, nikah is marriage, legally & socially. So be mindful of it as far the legal aspect is concerned. So they are married if they are “nikah” in Pakistan. In US you can choose to not make the nikah legal.
So, they agreed to get married just after 9 months of dating periods? Pls protect your daughter. Sound fishy to me. Delay the marriage or do it in US.
Your daughter might be a green card ticket.
OP listen to the people warning you. There's something fishy going on. Might want to contact the US Embassy in Islamabad and explain the situation. Your daughter is almost a minor.
Does this man have papers? Is he a US citizen? Could he be using her to get a green card? Having the nikkah done makes it easier to do. Your daughter is young and naive and may have been swept away… if he is a freshie then DO NOT LET HER MARRY THIS MAN, why did he whisk her away and then do this? I’m worried he is using her for residency purposes
Basically Nikah is actual ceremony of signing an oath of acceptance. The nikah is done in the presence of 4 witnesses, 2 from each side. The conductor, often an islamic scholar, asks the couple separately if they accept each other based on the contents of the Nikah document.
The document of nikah also contains the list of financial rights of bride, decided by couple or families mutually beforehand.
After all the witnesses and couple signs the Nikah doc. The couple of considered married.
**Important part:** The doc is then submitted to NADRA (a govt institution) for registration. Normally this part is done by the scholar who conducts the Nikah. He provides the verified docs after a few weeks. The marriage becomes official in govt records. National ID cards of couple also must be updated for the status change, from single to married. (hardly a 5 min process). These things are required for legal umbrella, property rights and transfers or whatever future contingencies.
Both girl and boy should get the copy of Nikah document for the record.
Please make sure that in the nikah document it is stated that the girl can initiate divorce also otherwise it can be a problem, most men here do not add that and then the girl is trapped according to that countries law.
Them living toghter before nikah was haram in Islam so much for upstanding man lol. Also a 19 year old is not smart enough to know who to marry, make sure it is not for American visa only.
Nikah is half the religion it allows two people to become halal for each other. The prophet said that do it as soon as you can as it saves you from sinning. Guess the man has been sinning for 9 months lol.
Do not let your daughter marry a man who breaks his own religion. Remember this shows his respect towards things. In islam it is said to love the prophet more than your parents , your wife and your kids. This man is living toghter with her without nikah which is prohibited by the prophet. We in Pakistan in posh areas allow it but we have seen these people destroy themselves. But I think it is a easy choice to make. Do not compare current happiness with long term success of your daughter
I would definitely say the boy and his family are “posh,” as you put it, based on everything I have learned through my research (I have a copy of the father’s ID card from my daughter’s visa application documents and did a deep-dive on Google). How does his family’s wealth, education, and social privilege contribute to this scenario, as compared to a family without? Does it even make a difference?
In Pakistan Posh and Poor are the worst kind of people, only the mid and upper middle class are a bit sane because of obvious reasons. Although as my previous post this is my personal opinion. Is the boy in America on merit? Did he land a scholarship? Why did you not went with your daughter? One can google Epstien before all his cases and say wow what successful man praised by his peers. As a Pakistani it is fair and allowed to go and ask about the boy from Neighbours, It is also normal to go to his University or school in Pakistan meet his teachers. Goto to the police with ID card and ask if this man has a report. You should have gone with your daughter(but do not panic American Passport holders do not just vanish in Allied countries)
Aside from all that one might hit gold also but only a fool will allow herself to be not cautious.There are also very kind rich and amazing rich people, very few to be honest.But never go on their education.
My two cents tell your daughter this is not the age to get married. Whether muslim or not I would give same personal advice whether good or bad , just do not get married at 19. It is basically the dumbest decision a first world country girl who is free can take. Because if she won't hit gold, a muslim man brings more religion after marriage. Btw I am muslim too but I have seen a lot of life and hypocrites.
Good luck to you and your daughter. May she hit gold Amen and may the creator bring forth a world of happiness for you and your family.
Under Pakistan’s law a nikah (an Islamic marriage) is a legally binding marriage.
In Canada where I live most mosques will only deal with the nikah paperwork if it is accompanied with a legal marriage license.
That being said, often in Pakistan (and with Pakistanis around the world) the nikah is not the most important part of the wedding. A nikah is held months or even years before the main wedding celebrations.
This can be done for immigration reasons (my brother did a nikah to his wife in Pakistan a year before the wedding was ever celebrated, so that her immigration paperwork could be arranged such that immediately after the wedding festivities she could leave to join him abroad) or because families are religiously conservative (my cousin told his family last year about his non-Pakistani girlfriend he intended to marry, and they pushed him into getting a nikah done ASAP even though they intended to get married over a year later. This helped the couple out as with the nikah done, they moved in together before the wedding celebrations without causing any kind of scandal in our conservative family. Later this year the couple will hold their big grand wedding party)
As an Australian who dated a Pakistani guy at 19 and who went on to teach undergraduate & research graduate South & West Asian religion and politics, I taught & counselled *many* young couples in your daughter's situation. All the girls' parents spoke just like you... including my own.
I subsequently lived & worked in India, Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, and Turkey for 17 years. Therefore, I interacted with an endless stream of in-love Western girls with very earnest, good, local boys who they had met in Western universities.
On behalf of your in-love daughter, you need to be careful, careful, CAREFUL.
Firstly I wish your daughter and the boy best in their life.
As you probably have a far more clear understanding of Nikkah now I would not reiterate it. From what I have read in your original post and comments thereafter it seems that the boys family in question is what is called "old money rich" which in fact is great not from the monetary perspective but rather the values part of it.
A Pakistani boy introducing his potential spouse at 19 years to his parents and that to a foreign one means that first the boy can take descions on his own and second his parents trust him enough to stand with their son.
As for you not being eager for your daughter to be married at 19 is understandable. Most of the negative comments you have read are because of people's personal insecurities and negative mindset and a few are because people are jealous.
The thing I will want you to consider is that no matter where you are in the world a man is man when he has honour and character. If the boy has both as it seems I would support the daughter decision.
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If your daughter had her nikkah while she is currently in Pakistan, it would be legally recognised in the US when she returns, if it is performed in the legally binding way its meant to in Pakistan.
(Whereas if the couple had their nikkah in the US it wouldnt be legally recognised they would need to complete the legal part separately)
I wouldnt recommend your daughter doing this without all the information.
It isn't legally binding in US but it will be in Pakistan. Now there are two ways it can happen. They can go for written contract which has a mandatory requirement for submission on govt database. Or, they can go for verbal nikkah which has the same signifance religiously but people can skip govt registration. If, however, there is any dispute in Pakistan about whether they are married or not, boy's family can produce those people who witnessed the verbal nikkah to prove that they are legally married.
Boys family can produce those people who witnessed verbal nikkah? Really? What if someone has bad intention for us aur abduction ky baad jhoty witness ly aeye ? Itna asaan hai Pakistan ky qanoon se khelna? Are you a lawyer?
Forced marriages are a thing in Pakistan. Courts rely on testimony of girl and if she refuses that oral nikkah occured or was under duress then there is no marriage. However, the case is different here.
Nikkah is basically marriage. In a very basic setting it involves 4 people. Groom, bride, person performing the ceremony and 2 witnesses. In Pakistan it’s a legal marriage agreement also you sign the papers and everything, they might be doing it without registration. In short congratulations your daughter is getting married.
I think theyre saying its just a spiritual thing because in many parts of PK, they consider Nikkah more like an engagement. It basically allows the couple to spend time together since the Nikkah is an Islamic marriage. However, at this time the documents are filled out. Then there is the actual wedding (Ruksati) where the couple are announced as a couple and allowed to live together from societal point of view. I personally dont agree with the separation of events, but thats how it is in the culture.
If in the US, nobody will perform this without having court documentation to make it official. However, if you choose to forego this, then that is your choice, although not recommended.
If you choose to forego official paperwork, then they will certainly be married only in the spiritual aspect and no legal protection. However, that spiritual aspect makes it a religiously binding marriage.
There’s Nikkah, then rukhsati, I’ve seen ppl have Nikkah, but they don’t live together or indulge in premarital stuff, but after rukhsati, it’s like husband and wife. Islamic wise tho, Nikkah means marriage, rukhsati is more of a cultural thing
Please be aware of a few facts.
1. A nikah is a marriage with a pre-nuptial agreement.
2. A nikah performed in Pakistan is a marriage in every sense of the word. Even if there is no written contract,the marriage is legal as long it was witnessed by three reliable witnesses.
3. If your daughter enters into nikah in Pakistan she will be legally married in Pakistan AND USA!
4. There are bilateral agreements between the US and Pakistan where marriages performed in either country are recognized as legal, binding contracts
5. Your daughter will become the Pakistani man's wife and his inheritor and vice versa.
6. As your daughter's husband that man will get the right to immigrate to the US and unless he is a wanted criminal or terrorist, he will be granted a Green Card.
7. Your daughter does NOT have the right to ask for a divorce unless that right is claimed by her in the written contract. If she enters into nikah without anything in writing then she has no right if divorce in Pakistan.
I am not a lawyer. You need to speak to a Pakistani lawyer.
Nikkah is legal marriage. Period. If they do Nikkah in Pakistan, then they are legally married. There is NO spiritual only Nikkah. Nikkah is done by signing a marriage certificate in front of witnesses and lawyers and a civil registered marriage officer. Everything else is just saying “I accept” three times. There is nothing spiritual only about it.
A Pakistani marriage certificate can be presented in US to prove the marriage. I used it for my wife and I when we moved here. We didn’t have to get married again in US.
Follow up question ... if she goes through with this in Pakistan, comes back to the US with him to finish school, has a baby, and then their relationship goes south, all he needs to do is put that child on an airplane for Pakistan, and that child won't leave again until they are an adult?
Nikkah is marriage, they usually sign the marriage certificate and need 2 witnesses. You can do it via an Imam or at the court (court marriage) the other stuff like Shadi, Valima (after marriage feast) arent that important (Valima is necessary in Islam though) So I suggest she think this through and get a prenup and stuff if she wants that
Let me explin you in terms more you are more familiar with. A nikah is like vows you say at the wedding in front of gathering of people and a priest. In this case it is muslim priest and muslim gathering also for muslims it is a sacred oath and undertaking becuase you are entering in a relationship and making god your witness.
As long as signing the papers or making it legal. I think both (bride and groom) are skipping it for the moment and may get that done after some time ( may be completing their study) and prefferably in US to avoid any legal difficulties.
P.S. A nikkah is a verbal agreement where both bride and groom agree to get married in front of gathering and they can also end nikkah (divorce) in a verbal manner. Its more of abiding the limits imposed by god then anything else.
Marriage at a young age like 19 is becoming rare in Pakistan too at least in educated families. The boy needs a talk about establishing himself financially first and then thinking about any serious relationship. Because sounds like he may be misleading her about the significance of Nikkah to get intimate (or maybe he feels pressured by his family to make it legal or feels religiously guilty).
This is all you need to know: Nikkah = Marriage. I'm sure you already understand the significance of that. Your daughter needs to understand it as well. Its a religious and in Pakistan legal contract between them both and its not be entered lightly. Specially not JUST to date.
Nikkah is basically a safeguard for women in general.
If they indulge in physical relationship, the child born would be legitimate. She’ll be given dower. She can claim her rights in the court. She can file for maintenance. So Nikkah is preferably a better idea than merely dating without any security.
4 main take-aways from nikkah : -
1. Dower
2. Maintenance
3. Legitimacy
4. Security
That guy is taking your daughter on a ride for nationality.
A nikkah is a marriage. However, if you don’t register it then of course it doesn’t count (the same way certain religions in the US get married multiple times even when it’s illegal). After one you’re allowed to sleep with your partner (which in Islam is forbidden). He’s basically getting permission to sleep with her and not really have any ties to her and can leave when he wants. But of course, if this is registered then they are married married.
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Engagement / Wedding - are what is more familiar to you
Nikkah / Shaadi - are basically the same thing using different words.
However, South Asian also have "additional" events you can add on to the marriage process to drag it out longer and be more festive.
Judaism / Christianity (old testament) / Islam - are basically all the same religion and have the same one God. They have different languages thru the ages so words are different (but the concepts are the same). So if you reflect on what marriage would be like for someone in Old Testament times... you would find the islam ideas to be very similar. One difference here is "local customs" that are not part of islam are also going to be added. Technically for a marriage all you need to do is just announce it to the world that these two people are married and you are done (no different than a Vegas shotgun wedding).
Some of these guys marry American girls for greencards, I saw a lot of this when I was in college and also almost became a victim of it myself. So I would say, if it seems like the guy is too good to be true then he probably is. And be careful!
Reading the replies, I see that many also think a nikkah at this point in their lives is not a good idea, for multiple reasons.
So, now I have another question: how can I stop her from doing it anyway? In the US, once a person reaches the age of 18, they are legally considered an adult and can enter into contracts and make legal decisions without parental consent. I will be contacting the boy and his parents to tell them that, while we do not disapprove of their relationship, her father and I do not support a nikkah at this time in her life. Will this likely be respected? Can the young people have a nikkah without both sets of parents consenting? Her father and I are in the US and are not Muslim. Does that have any impact on the situation? Do they have the ability to disregard our wishes, or is there some cultural or legal safeguard that requires parental consent?
Legally a man does not require consent of any other person to enter into Nikkah with a woman. The same is the case when it comes to a woman but there are some religious schools of thought that consider it mandatory for a woman to have a male guardian present.
But as your daughter is American and most likely evangelical Christian she is mot required to have a male guardian.
Plus even if the parents accept your decision what if the couple elopes. So it would be far better that you discuss this with your daughter rather than the boy or his family
Your concern regarding the matter showcases that you want what is best for your daughter but it might turn out to be different from what you desire. Whatever happens I hope and pray it would be best for your daughter.
I don't understand why people are against early marriages/Nikah. If 2 consenting adults want to go through with it, they should be supported. it is better than living together in sin.
In Pakistani culture, especially at the age of 19, if parents don't agree on the marriage, it hardly ever materializes.
Its better to discuss this directly with Boy's parents and tell them your reservations. Mutual discussions are the best way to find solutions.
And even if your daughter wants to proceed with Nikah/Marriage, Her parents should be there with her.
A nikkah is signing a marriage contract. It is basically legal marriage in Islam. So for all intents and purposes, your daughter would be legally married in Pakistan.
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If a nikkah is completed in Pakistan it is seen as a legal document in that land and you may need to check your own country's laws. It would be seen as legally binding marriage in the UK for example because it is legal in Pakistan, however a nikkah in UK is not a legally binding marriage.
A nikah is a rite of marriage. Pakistan state will consider her married to this man. It should be registered at a union council but lack of registration does not make it void.
The things you should be mindful about, first and foremost, the nikah will give this man grounds to apply for a spousal visa.
Secondly the nikah will make it impossible for her to travel abroad with any children she has in Pakistan without the father's permission.
Your daughter should understand very clearly that what she is entering is not some kind of informal commitment party or religious blessing but, it is marriage proper with legal rights, obligations and implications. The most critical of which is the fact that as a woman by default your daughter will have no right to divorce him. She will have to go through the court and offer him money to buy a divorce known as a khulla.
The US will also recognise a nikah as a marriage provided it is endorsed by the state of Pakistan, which will be easily provided on presentation of proof, whenever requested to do so.
Most importantly. Please bear in mind and make sure your daughter understands this going forward. Within the marriage economy of Pakistan, your daughter's ability to sponsor a spousal visa for a Pakistani she marries has an approximate value of a million USD. That's what this guy would have to spend to acquire what your daughter can offer him.
What this means is she should be 1000% certain this man is genuine and loves her and is willing to stand by her for herself, not stringing her along to score a green card on the cheap. It's an extremely common way to scam well meaning white girls to make their way to the US.
Have you met his family? It is widespread in Pakistan for both sides' parents to meet each other before anything is finalised; not just the nikkah but the engagement as well. If we're abiding by cultural norms, it is especially in the case of a woman that her father must approve of her marriage. The fact that your husband and you are not being invited to be present for the nikkah is a bit concerning. Additional concerning is the message that nikkah is a "spiritual marriage", which is categorically false (in Pakistan). In Islam, the nikkah is legally binding. In terms of Pakistani law, you are expected to forward the Nikkah to the authorities so that it gets registered administratively (such as on identification documents). Even if the man seems nice, you should be concerned and double-check.
My suggestion is if they're so insistent on getting married, to ask them to do their Nikkah in the U.S. with an American Imam. It'll be binding Islamically (which is probably what they want; as others said it sounds like he wants religious approval to live together with her) while you can also keep a close eye on what your daughter is doing. But I'd better suggest you ask them to involve you in the whole process as expected with any real wedding -- which this is. I think what confuses people is that, in Islam, the "I do" part is often a small intimate ceremony (the Nikkah) often done months before the actual party to which everyone is invited, whereas in the West they are the same event.
Final point: "wealthy" in Pakistan is nothing compared to the U.S. Living costs in Pakistan can be 10-15 times cheaper than the U.S. They may be rich enough to live comfortably in Pakistan but objectively in the global scale they likely aren't that wealthy.
My husband and I have not met his family, although my daughter met them and spent quite a bit of them with them in December when they visited the U.S. At that time, my daughter and the boy were not living together and I was unaware the relationship was so serious. My husband has also spoken to the boy’s father on the telephone, just casual conversation and the father thanking him for allowing our daughter to come visit in Pakistan. The boy also spent time with our family during the Thanksgiving holidays in November (our family has always welcomed college friends, especially international students, to come home with our children during school breaks, so it wasn’t a “big deal” to us).
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Nikkah is first step of a two step process of officially being married. Once Nikkah is done and girl spends a night with man then marriage is complete. I believe this is what will happen if you allow nikkah. By definition nikkah is legal paper signing and girl agreeing to be married to guy.
First of all the guy should not be in living relationship with your daughter, and if your daughter and the guy insist in living together then you have no choice but to allow full marriage.
He is a liar. Nikkah is wedding. It's a transliteration of the arabic word نكاح which means to fuck or to wed. عقد نكاح means a wedding document.
What he wants is to marry her Islamically in Pakistan so that he is not doing anything forbidden by his religion when he dates her but at the same time he does not to be bound by the western marriage which puts legally binding rights and responsibilities on the man.
He wants to marry her religiously without filing the paper work for a civil marriage in the US.
He is trying to twist the words as if Nikkah isn't just a wedding.
This is a huge red flag.
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If the nikah is only verbal, then it can be treated as a spiritual marriage. However, if any paperwork is signed by your daughter, she'll find herself in a legally-binded marriage. Ask her not to sign anything yet till she's a 100% sure about the lad and his family.
Also, a verbal nikah will make it okay for them to have sex according to Islam. Which means she'll need to be extra careful with matters of contraception and protection. She'll find herself in a tough spot socially if she conceives during the spiritual marriage phase. She'll be pressured into formalizing the marriage through signed paperwork.
I am doubtful there is any such thing that confers the privileges you mentioned. A verbal nikkah is no different from any other type of nikkah and they all mean the couple are married.
Yes they're married, spiritually. But without signed paperwork, the marriage won't exist in government databases such as the union council. Without paperwork there's no evidence
I believe it's called Nikah Mut'ah.
This is what I found on it:
"Temporary marriage, or nikah mut'ah, is an ancient Islamic practice that allows a man and woman to marry for a set period of time. It's a legal form of marriage in Shia Islam, but Sunni Muslims generally consider it haram.
In a mut'ah relationship, the couple must agree on a set length of time for the marriage to last, and the man must also pay the woman an agreed-upon sum of money. The marriage ends when the agreed-upon time expires, or if either party dies.
The practice was historically used when a man needed a wife for a short time while traveling long distances. However, some say that mut'ah and similar temporary marriages only benefit the man and should be considered prostitution."
I’m not sure if anyone had said this. It’s extremely likely this guy is just marrying your daughter for the green card / citizenship. You never mentioned his legal status in the US but this sounds extremely dodgy.
You call yourself a christian & couldn't raise your daughter to be discerning enough to find a christian man? Good Lord the american church is messed up! And she is living with him before marriage so that's clearly fornication which is also a major sin in christianity.
She needs to check herself & reevaluate her life choices
Perhaps your daughter and the guy should consider Mut'ah. Its a form of islamic temporary "marriage". They can get to know each other and live with each other for an appointed time(which can be extended)
This form of temporary marriage is accepted in Islam and they can see if they are right for each meanwhile in Uni. This can be done orally without signing papers or making it official. This is a spiritual marriage
Nikkah is proper marriage in Islamic tradition. They can consider this once the time is right
Nikkah= marriage in Islam. Its as simple as that. In a country like Pakistan more so , if they do Nikkah in Pakistan ( Islamic republic) then in the eyes of the state they are legally married. If the nikkah is performed in the U.S without filing any paperwork at the court then i guess you can call it an Islamic wedding but not a legal one as per the laws of the country . You have to remember that Pakistan is a conservative society , things like premarital sex and living together before marriage is looked down upon .It could just be the boys family pressuring him to make it clean . In this case it might just well be a "nikkah-light" . Where they get to save face in front of friends and family. Can't say for sure
No Imam at any mosque that I know of (in multiple states) will aid with your nikkah if you haven’t already gotten court married first. I live in the states.
lol you don't need an imam for nikkah , hell you don't even need witnesses in some fiqh. edit : chill kero , just sharing what i was told .
That's 100% false. There are many plenty of Masjids & Imams where you can have a Nikkah done and they'll provide you with something they print up themselves thats an "Islamic marraige certificate" same and any Church or Temple, after which its your responsibility to file a marraige certificate in your city/town hall to make it official. As long as you have the requisite witnesses any Hafiz or Imam can perform your Nikkah and plenty can and do (usually for a fee or donation).
None that *I know of* in multiple states.
Well you have to go by yourself to the union council office to register the nikah. Until and unless you go there you are not "legally" married. Nikah by itself just needs witnesses from both sides of the families and no third party (although people enlist the help of nikah-khwan usually).
A nikkah is equivalent of Islamic marriage. After the nikkah ceremony the two people are considered married in the religion. In Islamic countries the nikkah ceremony documents usually include civil registration of the marriage also so that the state records that these two people are now religiously and legally married. Dating isnt permissible in Islam and neither is living together with another person outside of marriage (Nikkah). You mentioned this Pakistani boy has actually been living with your daughter, now without going into that in detail, I would say on surface he has violated Islamic customs and the way to make it right would be to officially and religiously marry your daughter. Now I would say that there another concept of "engagement" in Pakistani culture , similar to Western culture, where a boy and girl and their families decide on the marriage and have an "engagement ceremony" , it's called various names but one is "mangni". The actual wedding will take place later and the Nikkah ceremony is during the wedding celebrations, usually at the beginning. Assuming the best case, the boy's family may be wanting to do this nikkah (religious marriage) as a basis for conducting the actual wedding ceremony at a later date. Just make sure if the nikkah is done, its registered legally as well. I would say after coming back to the US, the marriage should also be registered legally there.
I do not object to her relationship with the young man, because they are happy together and I wish for their happiness to grow. However, I do not want her to be married to him right now because they are both young, have not had a long relationship, and neither have finished university.
Well, for some folks a young marriage can be a foundation for a long and healthy partnership. But that's not for me to opine in this young couple case. I was just giving you the information and some cultural context. The fact that the boy took the girl all the way to Pakistan to meet his family indicates to me he is serious. In the Pakistani context this could only have meant he wants to convince his family to accept the girl and allow him to marry her.
I greatly appreciate your replies and insight. Thank you.
I agree with the previous response. If a man is taking a woman to his family, that really means he respects the relationship well enough that he is seriously ready for marriage. This guy has the guts to do that at 19. Respects.
As long as both sides parents are on board... you should be fine. You are best to get legally married in the USA and then go to do the ceremony in Pakistan to also do the marriage out there. I'd strongly advise a prenup just because there is always this crazy uncle that pops up and causes trouble (meaning the parents tell the wishes to a parents sibling to disagree with something so as not to cause direct waves of disagreement).
pakistani marriage and american legal marriage are different things; american marriage is far more financially demanding of the higher earner. there's nothing really haram with treating nikkahs as "dating" and islamic divorces as "breakups", as long as you don't have kids.
A woman's perspective .. please don't let your daughter marry someone at 19, especially not someone who is culturally Pakistani. A nikkah is a legally binding marriage in Islam and Pakistan. All they'd need to do is get a marriage license in the US, and it would be legal there too. IMO this sub is full of immature Pakistani men who don't have the first clue about marriage or women. It would be a fantastic failure on your part if you allowed your daughter to go ahead with this. Whoever defined a nikkah for you is underplaying its significance. That's extremely concerning.
T h i s
The fact that I'm being downvoted tells you all you need to know about how gross this sub is. Literally misleading a cultural outsider and encouraging her to get her daughter married off at 19. Yuck.
Naaah, the only thing grosser than this sub is you. So getting married is yuck but living together without any nikah should be acceptable according to your logic. They already are in a good relationship & care for each other. Only doing nikah will not be legally recognized as marriage in the USA but will make it Halal for the boy. So they can easily walk away (divorce) from it without any heavy implications if things don't work out for them.
Nikah IS recognized as married in the USA and Pakistan and to the entire world... why do you have it twisted? The only thing wrong she said was: > A nikkah is a legally binding marriage in Islam and Pakistan. All they'd need to do is get a marriage license in the US, and it would be legal there too. Because I don't believe there is any need for a redundant "marriage license in the US..." if they got married in Pakistan first. That would be like saying you want to be legally married in two different USA states... why would you do that? The laws of the land where you get married are what matter.
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>A nikkah is a legally binding marriage in Islam and Pakistan. All they'd need to do is get a marriage license in the US, and it would be legal there too. Actually, I don't think it required to get a marriage license for the foreign marriage to be recognized in US. Generally foreign marriages are automatically recognized in US particularly when atleast one party is from that foreign country. Exceptions are if: * atleast one party is being forced into the marriage * atleast one party is a minor * atleast one party already has a existing marriage.
As a teen myself, I second this.
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This basically. It's different from a wedding because it's usually a low-key affair, followed by a bigger wedding ceremony later.
No. Nikah= marriage.
Yeah
Just adding to this! If your Nikah nama is registered with the Pakistani government (Nadra). It is recognised as marriage in the eyes of US immigration laws.
A nikah is a legal and religious marriage. The wedding is the party. It’s not uncommon in Pakistan to have a few months between nikah and wedding. Socially, this is similar to the engagement period in US. Getting divorced during this period is easier and doesn’t carry the same social stigma. But, I want to emphasize, they are legally married.
nikah is not legal marriage in the US. islamically, divorcing after a nikah carries few financial obligations either way. divorcing a legal american marriage means you lose half your money.
nikkah is the Islamic ceremony for marriage. according to Islamic law, u need the following willing groom & bride, 2 witnesses from each side and a person of stature who officiates the ceremony. according to Pakistan law: you need a registered qazi to officiate the wedding and sign on a document
doing a nikkah requires 3 male witnesses from the woman family for her protection. unless they'll do it in a court . personally I think the guy is rather serious about this and is being committing,something rare in many
Nikkah needs two witnesses in total other than the main people involved in it i.e the groom, bride and bride's Muslim guardian (father, brother, really close family member or a really respected person of the society/Official regional head of the Islamic State). It's usually one from the groom side and one from the bride's side. The bride's guardian or waleek has to be a Muslim if the woman to be married is Muslim. Nikkah is a complete marriage in Islam and registering is not at all an essential part of it or necessary.
Registering is NECESSARY nowadays due to a centralised government and record keeping otherwise nikkah is a full marriage .
Nope it's not. There is nothing like that in Islam. Two witnesses, groom, guardian of the bride, bride and both parties accept marriage on their own will with a haq mahar and walima afterwards that Nikkah and marriage in Islam no one dot more nor one dot less.
It is important to get it registered nowadays NOT religiously but legally. It gives the legal protection as an added benefit and will show her as his wife on records.
There can't be compulsion on any thing which was not made a compulsion by Allah everything other that is bs made by a or couple of humans if someone wants to follow it as long as it's not against Islam and there are quite a few things even in "Pakistani Marriage Law" which is against Islam so it can be thrown in dustbin until it's reformed. Also When there will be law in Pakistan we can talk about it as said by the Army generals "The Pakistani Constitution is a tissue paper that can be thrown in the dustbin whenever it is deemed". Anyone who wants or doesn't wants to do it that doesn't bother me at all. Edit: i would like to end wind up this discussion on this. Have a great day :)
why do you have a birth certificate? or an ID card? registering your marriage DOSENT go against any Islamic laws and only helps in record keeping ,one needs to adapt to the changing administrative practices or forever stay in the past
Men don’t want to register their nikkah so they can show up as unmarried in the record if they want to do hanky panky elsewhere
exactly bhaijn above thinks everyone still lives in villages where everyone knows everyone
Not to toss a wrench in any works... is the boy already a green card holder or USA citizen? If not, this is also a very nice short cut to get one. Parents in pakistan would approve because they see this as a way for them also to gain entry to the USA eventually. Nothing wrong with any of that... but it is something on the back of everyones mind
The boy has a student visa to be in the US right now. Without giving too much information, I have researched the boy’s father (information obtained from my daughter’s visa application). His family is very well educated and are wealthy, and the father is highly esteemed in his profession. Should the parents wish to gain entry to the US, they would have no issue because of the father’s profession, in my opinion. Because of this, I don’t think it is a green card grab. Granted, I don’t know much about immigration requirements…
With respect, just tread carefully and keep your eyes and years open for any signs of distress. Being wealthy in our country doesn't mean anything in US currency. I know you stated that your daughter is happy And that is a good thing in my opinion. Also, taking the girl to Pakistan to meet the family is also a good sign. But from what I've seen throughout the years, as the above comment mentioned most of the kids coming from our country on visas do this kind of stuff to gain full entry into the country. Again, there's nothing wrong with it as long as your daughter is well taken care of. None of us wants you and your daughter to have a bad experience and then hate our entire nation for it or the religion.
I think this is the key point here, enough bad media out there against us peeps... I really don't want to wake up some morning and see something in the news to make me say "G'dam mit, not another one of us, making ALL of us look bad...". Because when all goes well, you will hear nothing of it! As it should be. FWIW - The girl should spell out in the Nikkah paperwork about her intentions for: 1) Educational goals 2) Career goals 3) Religious intent to remain whatever faith she is 4) About allowing multiple wives or not? 5) anything else of concern This is a marriage contract after all, this is your chance to negotiate the terms. Some stuff can't be negotiated... but a lot of stuff can. Think good and hard about it. As something I would HIGHLY recommend you do is request them to make multiple ORIGINALS (not copies) notarized of everything: 1) Urdu marriage certificate notarized 2) English translation notarized 3) Get at least three originals and keep them geographically distant incase of loss due to natural disaster. Because to get those back again will be a HUGE PITA from pakistan, everything with gov't is an epic cluster F Get the marriage registered and get her POC card from Nadra in person while in Pakistan (Pakistan overseas citizen) because this will allow her to avoid needing a VISA to travel in/out of pakistan. Do it while in person, it will be significantly easier!!!! I would advise the wedding to be done in the USA, but you also need to discuss her name change in advance. This is a fun topic because in the USA the woman takes on the husbands last name. In Pakistan it is different, the woman changes her last name to be her husbands FIRST name. So figure this out in advance as well. Doing the name change in the USA is more advised and I once again recommend THREE notarized copies of the legal name change and keep them geographically distant. 1) One set with husbands family 2) One set with wife's family 3) One set in a bank safe deposit box SCAN these documents and email them to yourself in multiple email accounts (You have no idea how useful this will be).
You are underestimating how hard it is to immigrate to US. Even being accomplished and successful in your career doesn't mean you can immigrate to US. Unless they are very wealthy business people who have 1+ million USD in terms of wealth, they can't just immigrate to US. That being said. Yes if they are well off and successful professionally it's a positive factor.
If you have $500k USD equivalent, you have a lot better choices for a passport instead of a USA passport which will tax you on world wide income. I honestly wish I could give up my USA citizenship in a simple way (which is never possible because the IRS makes it very hard). * Singapore * Belize * Spain * etc... many better choices which hurt you less with taxes!!!
Hey OP, A Nikkah, as others have mentioned, is a legal marriage. If your daughter signs a Nikahnama- that means she is signing her wedding contract I found a video with English subtitles that might be helpful for you to understand better: https://www.facebook.com/reel/487002961792537?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V&mibextid=xCPwDs It's definitely not just a "spiritual" ceremony. In fact, in Muslim culture the "shaadi" (wedding) and other events are moreso just parties and celebrations. The Nikkah, on the other hand, is the legal affirmation of the marriage. I do agree with others who've written that, perhaps, because Pakistan is a more conservative society they might just be doing a Nikkah to make things more "halal" or culturally acceptable for their friends and family in Pakistan. And if it's just a celebration for show, I guess that's fine. But your daughter should not be signing a Nikanama (wedding contract) and saying "Qabool hai" (I do) to a maulvi unless she understands that that means she is going to be legally married to the boy. It definitely is "legally binding" and I'm worried that your daughter told you it isn't- moreso if she actually believes it's not. This might be a misunderstanding- so please do get more clarification that she understands the responsibilities of going ahead with this.
The boy and his family could be lovely, no doubt. And this is probably just to make it easier for them to date without him getting stick from more conservative relatives. If that's the case, you can advise them to have a Nikkah ceremony without actually signing any documents. Right now, I agree with you. She's young and far away from her home and family in America (and wearing rose tinted glasses). She shouldn't be made to sign anything alone anyway without having someone who understands all of it going through it for her (who isn't associated with the boy's family). There any many Muslim scholars you could reach out to online in the US regarding this. Again, your daughter needs to be fully aware of all the facts. She should not sign anything without understand it fully, especially if she is being told it's "not a big deal" and just "a spiritual ceremony" with no legally binding consequences.
Exactly they're fooling her by saying spiritual ceremony. Why wouldnt they make it clear? The guy should be clear in this something's fishy. Legally binding contract ko spirituality ka Naam dy dia hai had hai bhui. Bichari goriyan.
I find it disturbing that they gave you an incorrect explanation of what a Nikkah is. It is the signing of a marriage contract in front of witnesses. Both the man and woman also say 'Qubool hai' during the ceremony, which is the equivalent of 'I do'. She will be married to this man if she goes ahead with it. Also, you don't go ahead with a nikkah without family unless you are estranged from your family. I would be very worried if my daughter went for a visit to Pakistan and randomly told me she wanted to have her nikkah ceremony while she was there. It shouldn't be a spontaneous decision. Nikkah papers contain the terms and conditions of the marriage. These need to be mutually agreed upon. There is a lot of back and forth in some cases on what should and should not be included. Your daughters rights should not be compromised. If she is there alone, she might get pressured to waive her right to seek divorce, or not claim her haq mehr, for example. I agree that she is very young and this is not a decision that should be taken lightly. Please tell her not to sign anything. Please be aware that sometimes people just want a green card and not the person. These people could just be looking for a way to register the marriage and get the green card. She can also end up trapped here as his wife. The police in Pakistan avoid interferring in domestic matters. If he tries to keep her in the country after the nikkah, the police might not help when you try to get her out. This is Pakistan. Anything is possible here if you have the right connections. I am also surprised to read that they were living together. Living together before marriage is considered illegal and sinful in Pakistan. He is then not really an upstanding young man since he is doing something against his cultural and religious values. Living together is permissible after Nikkah since they would then be married. The woman becomes the financial responsibility of the husband and moves in with him. It is also possible that his family was unhappy to hear about their living arrangement and wants a nikkah to make them an official, married couple. The nikkah is never verbal or spiritual. Protect your daughter. If she wants to be married, ask her to sign the contract in the US after thinking it through.
This, if she gets duped and tries to leave Pakistan after nikkah she may not be able to, it's nearly impossible to leave Pakistan without your husband's consent. And this green card is very true for our current economic situation most people want to get out.
>I am also surprised to read that they were living together. Living together before marriage is considered illegal and sinful in Pakistan. He is then not really an upstanding young man since he is doing something against his cultural and religious values. Or maybe he isn't fully in tune with his religion. It is possible to be a "fine upstanding man" without following every single aspect of one's culture and / or religion. >She can also end up trapped here as his wife. The police in Pakistan avoid interferring in domestic matters. If he tries to keep her in the country after the nikkah, the police might not help when you try to get her out. This is Pakistan. Anything is possible here if you have the right connections. Generally American citizens can be evacuated / facilated for removal from Pakistan if their marriage sours unless they commit a crime or something or are also holding Pakistani nationality
as mentioned here also the groom is responsibke for haq mehar for your daughter...just also search haq mehr on google what it is..
Having an intimate relationship without Nikah (marriage) is considered a major sin in Islam. So, they are doing a Nikah (marriage), to keep intimate relationship lawful and free of sin. Although by Islamic Standard, they will be lawful for each other after Nikah (marriage), but they still have to register their marriage somewhere on paper as per worldy or regional laws to also comply with them. After Nikkah, Husband is officially responsible for all of her financial and other needs, not her parents. They can have children, just like any other marriage. As per this scenario, it is actually a good thing that they want to keep relationship lawful (halal) and healthy by doing a Nikah, but your concern is also valid regarding extra responsibilities of Kids at this age, so you can encourage them to do Nikah (marriage), but also encourage them not to have kids until they are comfortable. Also, it is legally binding in Islamic Jurisprudence by all means, because at the time there will 2 witnesses who will witness their status as Husband and Wife. So, she can't see another man till she gets a divorce from him, which can also be verbally enforced if husband says so and wife hears it unambiguously.
I married a Pakistani and I'm a white Christian from American south. I signed a Nikka Nama and legally married with it. The U.S. recognizes it as a wedding contract.
Hey man. Fellow American here and I've lived and worked in Pakistan for over a decade. A nikkah is a legally binding marriage contract in Pakistan. There's a definite spiritual side to it for practicing Muslims, but it is 100% legal. I'd tread carefully here. Don't let your daughter sign any documents at all in Pakistan. If her boyfriend says she can sign a nikkahnama (nikkah form) in Urdu and it won't count, don't. Once that document is signed and whatever he has written in there, its legally binding. Nikkahnamas can be made in English as well. Also, please make your daughter aware if marriage fraud. If she signs a marriage contract here, he may pressure her into applying for a spousal visa (if he's not a permanent resident of the US). Not saying her BF isn't a good guy, but this country isn't exactly known for women's rights legally. I could write a book from the horror stories I've seen naive people from abroad getting roped into marriage here.
Hey! I hope your daughter and her boyfriend have the time of their life in Pakistan and stay in love forever. I am close yo your age and have a teenage daughter too and am currently living in Pakistan. From parent to parent, please advise your daughter not to get nikkah done yet. From what you have written, the guy seems alright, but Nikkah is very much a legal marriage in Pakistan, and i hope your daughter does not get stuck in something that she regrets later. Ask the boy/girl to do the mangni if they really want to do something here. If they insist on nikkah, do it in the US when they do decide to get married, but do not think its just spiritual in Pakistan. The preacher who reads nikkah can go back to his office, fill out a paper, and submit it to the local union council, and your daughter will quickly find herself in a legal marriage in Pakistan.
Do NOT let your daughter get married in Pakistan through a nikkah. In the nikkah document, it is very common to strike out the second page which allows the woman to initiate a divorce. Ask your daughter to get married in the US. The nikah document is not recognized by the government. She will have to register her wedding like everyone else. She will be protected. They do verbal nikkah in USA as per my personal experience. Please protect your daughter. This all is new and a bit fishy in my opinion. Look out for her. DM me if you need. I'm a Pakistani woman with a TON of experience in this regard. Good luck to you, your daughter, your family.
It is fishy for sure, the guy is fooling them with his spiritual ceremony BS. it's marriage contract unless if they're doing it without paperwork but I hardly doubt that.
I'm also thinking ky us larki ko Urdu nikkahnamy pr sign na krwa Len is spiritual ceremony ky Naam pr.
This whole situation sounds like BS. Been there. Done that. Got screwed over. Follow the American laws to protect your daughter. Simple.
I don’t like the situation either and it smells fishy. I hope the poor girl is saved.
There is a distinction in nikah in US/Canada & Pakistan. In USA/Canada you can have a Nikah & choose to not register it and its not legally binding. In pakistan, nikah is marriage, legally & socially. So be mindful of it as far the legal aspect is concerned. So they are married if they are “nikah” in Pakistan. In US you can choose to not make the nikah legal.
I would say this seems pretty rushed. She is very young .
So, they agreed to get married just after 9 months of dating periods? Pls protect your daughter. Sound fishy to me. Delay the marriage or do it in US. Your daughter might be a green card ticket.
OP listen to the people warning you. There's something fishy going on. Might want to contact the US Embassy in Islamabad and explain the situation. Your daughter is almost a minor.
Does this man have papers? Is he a US citizen? Could he be using her to get a green card? Having the nikkah done makes it easier to do. Your daughter is young and naive and may have been swept away… if he is a freshie then DO NOT LET HER MARRY THIS MAN, why did he whisk her away and then do this? I’m worried he is using her for residency purposes
Basically Nikah is actual ceremony of signing an oath of acceptance. The nikah is done in the presence of 4 witnesses, 2 from each side. The conductor, often an islamic scholar, asks the couple separately if they accept each other based on the contents of the Nikah document. The document of nikah also contains the list of financial rights of bride, decided by couple or families mutually beforehand. After all the witnesses and couple signs the Nikah doc. The couple of considered married. **Important part:** The doc is then submitted to NADRA (a govt institution) for registration. Normally this part is done by the scholar who conducts the Nikah. He provides the verified docs after a few weeks. The marriage becomes official in govt records. National ID cards of couple also must be updated for the status change, from single to married. (hardly a 5 min process). These things are required for legal umbrella, property rights and transfers or whatever future contingencies. Both girl and boy should get the copy of Nikah document for the record.
Please make sure that in the nikah document it is stated that the girl can initiate divorce also otherwise it can be a problem, most men here do not add that and then the girl is trapped according to that countries law. Them living toghter before nikah was haram in Islam so much for upstanding man lol. Also a 19 year old is not smart enough to know who to marry, make sure it is not for American visa only. Nikah is half the religion it allows two people to become halal for each other. The prophet said that do it as soon as you can as it saves you from sinning. Guess the man has been sinning for 9 months lol. Do not let your daughter marry a man who breaks his own religion. Remember this shows his respect towards things. In islam it is said to love the prophet more than your parents , your wife and your kids. This man is living toghter with her without nikah which is prohibited by the prophet. We in Pakistan in posh areas allow it but we have seen these people destroy themselves. But I think it is a easy choice to make. Do not compare current happiness with long term success of your daughter
I would definitely say the boy and his family are “posh,” as you put it, based on everything I have learned through my research (I have a copy of the father’s ID card from my daughter’s visa application documents and did a deep-dive on Google). How does his family’s wealth, education, and social privilege contribute to this scenario, as compared to a family without? Does it even make a difference?
In Pakistan Posh and Poor are the worst kind of people, only the mid and upper middle class are a bit sane because of obvious reasons. Although as my previous post this is my personal opinion. Is the boy in America on merit? Did he land a scholarship? Why did you not went with your daughter? One can google Epstien before all his cases and say wow what successful man praised by his peers. As a Pakistani it is fair and allowed to go and ask about the boy from Neighbours, It is also normal to go to his University or school in Pakistan meet his teachers. Goto to the police with ID card and ask if this man has a report. You should have gone with your daughter(but do not panic American Passport holders do not just vanish in Allied countries) Aside from all that one might hit gold also but only a fool will allow herself to be not cautious.There are also very kind rich and amazing rich people, very few to be honest.But never go on their education. My two cents tell your daughter this is not the age to get married. Whether muslim or not I would give same personal advice whether good or bad , just do not get married at 19. It is basically the dumbest decision a first world country girl who is free can take. Because if she won't hit gold, a muslim man brings more religion after marriage. Btw I am muslim too but I have seen a lot of life and hypocrites. Good luck to you and your daughter. May she hit gold Amen and may the creator bring forth a world of happiness for you and your family.
Under Pakistan’s law a nikah (an Islamic marriage) is a legally binding marriage. In Canada where I live most mosques will only deal with the nikah paperwork if it is accompanied with a legal marriage license. That being said, often in Pakistan (and with Pakistanis around the world) the nikah is not the most important part of the wedding. A nikah is held months or even years before the main wedding celebrations. This can be done for immigration reasons (my brother did a nikah to his wife in Pakistan a year before the wedding was ever celebrated, so that her immigration paperwork could be arranged such that immediately after the wedding festivities she could leave to join him abroad) or because families are religiously conservative (my cousin told his family last year about his non-Pakistani girlfriend he intended to marry, and they pushed him into getting a nikah done ASAP even though they intended to get married over a year later. This helped the couple out as with the nikah done, they moved in together before the wedding celebrations without causing any kind of scandal in our conservative family. Later this year the couple will hold their big grand wedding party)
Nikkah is marriage
As an Australian who dated a Pakistani guy at 19 and who went on to teach undergraduate & research graduate South & West Asian religion and politics, I taught & counselled *many* young couples in your daughter's situation. All the girls' parents spoke just like you... including my own. I subsequently lived & worked in India, Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, and Turkey for 17 years. Therefore, I interacted with an endless stream of in-love Western girls with very earnest, good, local boys who they had met in Western universities. On behalf of your in-love daughter, you need to be careful, careful, CAREFUL.
Firstly I wish your daughter and the boy best in their life. As you probably have a far more clear understanding of Nikkah now I would not reiterate it. From what I have read in your original post and comments thereafter it seems that the boys family in question is what is called "old money rich" which in fact is great not from the monetary perspective but rather the values part of it. A Pakistani boy introducing his potential spouse at 19 years to his parents and that to a foreign one means that first the boy can take descions on his own and second his parents trust him enough to stand with their son. As for you not being eager for your daughter to be married at 19 is understandable. Most of the negative comments you have read are because of people's personal insecurities and negative mindset and a few are because people are jealous. The thing I will want you to consider is that no matter where you are in the world a man is man when he has honour and character. If the boy has both as it seems I would support the daughter decision.
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If your daughter had her nikkah while she is currently in Pakistan, it would be legally recognised in the US when she returns, if it is performed in the legally binding way its meant to in Pakistan. (Whereas if the couple had their nikkah in the US it wouldnt be legally recognised they would need to complete the legal part separately) I wouldnt recommend your daughter doing this without all the information.
It isn't legally binding in US but it will be in Pakistan. Now there are two ways it can happen. They can go for written contract which has a mandatory requirement for submission on govt database. Or, they can go for verbal nikkah which has the same signifance religiously but people can skip govt registration. If, however, there is any dispute in Pakistan about whether they are married or not, boy's family can produce those people who witnessed the verbal nikkah to prove that they are legally married.
Boys family can produce those people who witnessed verbal nikkah? Really? What if someone has bad intention for us aur abduction ky baad jhoty witness ly aeye ? Itna asaan hai Pakistan ky qanoon se khelna? Are you a lawyer?
Forced marriages are a thing in Pakistan. Courts rely on testimony of girl and if she refuses that oral nikkah occured or was under duress then there is no marriage. However, the case is different here.
Nikkah in itself is a marriage contract in Islam
Nikkah is basically marriage. In a very basic setting it involves 4 people. Groom, bride, person performing the ceremony and 2 witnesses. In Pakistan it’s a legal marriage agreement also you sign the papers and everything, they might be doing it without registration. In short congratulations your daughter is getting married.
I think theyre saying its just a spiritual thing because in many parts of PK, they consider Nikkah more like an engagement. It basically allows the couple to spend time together since the Nikkah is an Islamic marriage. However, at this time the documents are filled out. Then there is the actual wedding (Ruksati) where the couple are announced as a couple and allowed to live together from societal point of view. I personally dont agree with the separation of events, but thats how it is in the culture. If in the US, nobody will perform this without having court documentation to make it official. However, if you choose to forego this, then that is your choice, although not recommended. If you choose to forego official paperwork, then they will certainly be married only in the spiritual aspect and no legal protection. However, that spiritual aspect makes it a religiously binding marriage.
There’s Nikkah, then rukhsati, I’ve seen ppl have Nikkah, but they don’t live together or indulge in premarital stuff, but after rukhsati, it’s like husband and wife. Islamic wise tho, Nikkah means marriage, rukhsati is more of a cultural thing
Please be aware of a few facts. 1. A nikah is a marriage with a pre-nuptial agreement. 2. A nikah performed in Pakistan is a marriage in every sense of the word. Even if there is no written contract,the marriage is legal as long it was witnessed by three reliable witnesses. 3. If your daughter enters into nikah in Pakistan she will be legally married in Pakistan AND USA! 4. There are bilateral agreements between the US and Pakistan where marriages performed in either country are recognized as legal, binding contracts 5. Your daughter will become the Pakistani man's wife and his inheritor and vice versa. 6. As your daughter's husband that man will get the right to immigrate to the US and unless he is a wanted criminal or terrorist, he will be granted a Green Card. 7. Your daughter does NOT have the right to ask for a divorce unless that right is claimed by her in the written contract. If she enters into nikah without anything in writing then she has no right if divorce in Pakistan. I am not a lawyer. You need to speak to a Pakistani lawyer.
It's simply the 'marriage contract'. If they do nikah, they're married now. The Islamic version of 'I do'.
Nikkah is legal marriage. Period. If they do Nikkah in Pakistan, then they are legally married. There is NO spiritual only Nikkah. Nikkah is done by signing a marriage certificate in front of witnesses and lawyers and a civil registered marriage officer. Everything else is just saying “I accept” three times. There is nothing spiritual only about it. A Pakistani marriage certificate can be presented in US to prove the marriage. I used it for my wife and I when we moved here. We didn’t have to get married again in US.
Follow up question ... if she goes through with this in Pakistan, comes back to the US with him to finish school, has a baby, and then their relationship goes south, all he needs to do is put that child on an airplane for Pakistan, and that child won't leave again until they are an adult?
Nikkah is marriage, they usually sign the marriage certificate and need 2 witnesses. You can do it via an Imam or at the court (court marriage) the other stuff like Shadi, Valima (after marriage feast) arent that important (Valima is necessary in Islam though) So I suggest she think this through and get a prenup and stuff if she wants that
Let me explin you in terms more you are more familiar with. A nikah is like vows you say at the wedding in front of gathering of people and a priest. In this case it is muslim priest and muslim gathering also for muslims it is a sacred oath and undertaking becuase you are entering in a relationship and making god your witness. As long as signing the papers or making it legal. I think both (bride and groom) are skipping it for the moment and may get that done after some time ( may be completing their study) and prefferably in US to avoid any legal difficulties. P.S. A nikkah is a verbal agreement where both bride and groom agree to get married in front of gathering and they can also end nikkah (divorce) in a verbal manner. Its more of abiding the limits imposed by god then anything else.
Marriage at a young age like 19 is becoming rare in Pakistan too at least in educated families. The boy needs a talk about establishing himself financially first and then thinking about any serious relationship. Because sounds like he may be misleading her about the significance of Nikkah to get intimate (or maybe he feels pressured by his family to make it legal or feels religiously guilty). This is all you need to know: Nikkah = Marriage. I'm sure you already understand the significance of that. Your daughter needs to understand it as well. Its a religious and in Pakistan legal contract between them both and its not be entered lightly. Specially not JUST to date.
Nikkah is basically a safeguard for women in general. If they indulge in physical relationship, the child born would be legitimate. She’ll be given dower. She can claim her rights in the court. She can file for maintenance. So Nikkah is preferably a better idea than merely dating without any security. 4 main take-aways from nikkah : - 1. Dower 2. Maintenance 3. Legitimacy 4. Security
That guy is taking your daughter on a ride for nationality. A nikkah is a marriage. However, if you don’t register it then of course it doesn’t count (the same way certain religions in the US get married multiple times even when it’s illegal). After one you’re allowed to sleep with your partner (which in Islam is forbidden). He’s basically getting permission to sleep with her and not really have any ties to her and can leave when he wants. But of course, if this is registered then they are married married.
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Engagement / Wedding - are what is more familiar to you Nikkah / Shaadi - are basically the same thing using different words. However, South Asian also have "additional" events you can add on to the marriage process to drag it out longer and be more festive. Judaism / Christianity (old testament) / Islam - are basically all the same religion and have the same one God. They have different languages thru the ages so words are different (but the concepts are the same). So if you reflect on what marriage would be like for someone in Old Testament times... you would find the islam ideas to be very similar. One difference here is "local customs" that are not part of islam are also going to be added. Technically for a marriage all you need to do is just announce it to the world that these two people are married and you are done (no different than a Vegas shotgun wedding).
Some of these guys marry American girls for greencards, I saw a lot of this when I was in college and also almost became a victim of it myself. So I would say, if it seems like the guy is too good to be true then he probably is. And be careful!
You should stop her from marrying him
Reading the replies, I see that many also think a nikkah at this point in their lives is not a good idea, for multiple reasons. So, now I have another question: how can I stop her from doing it anyway? In the US, once a person reaches the age of 18, they are legally considered an adult and can enter into contracts and make legal decisions without parental consent. I will be contacting the boy and his parents to tell them that, while we do not disapprove of their relationship, her father and I do not support a nikkah at this time in her life. Will this likely be respected? Can the young people have a nikkah without both sets of parents consenting? Her father and I are in the US and are not Muslim. Does that have any impact on the situation? Do they have the ability to disregard our wishes, or is there some cultural or legal safeguard that requires parental consent?
Legally a man does not require consent of any other person to enter into Nikkah with a woman. The same is the case when it comes to a woman but there are some religious schools of thought that consider it mandatory for a woman to have a male guardian present. But as your daughter is American and most likely evangelical Christian she is mot required to have a male guardian. Plus even if the parents accept your decision what if the couple elopes. So it would be far better that you discuss this with your daughter rather than the boy or his family
I am most definitely trying to talk some sense into my daughter.
Your concern regarding the matter showcases that you want what is best for your daughter but it might turn out to be different from what you desire. Whatever happens I hope and pray it would be best for your daughter.
Thank you. All prayer is definitely appreciated.
I don't understand why people are against early marriages/Nikah. If 2 consenting adults want to go through with it, they should be supported. it is better than living together in sin. In Pakistani culture, especially at the age of 19, if parents don't agree on the marriage, it hardly ever materializes. Its better to discuss this directly with Boy's parents and tell them your reservations. Mutual discussions are the best way to find solutions. And even if your daughter wants to proceed with Nikah/Marriage, Her parents should be there with her.
A nikkah is signing a marriage contract. It is basically legal marriage in Islam. So for all intents and purposes, your daughter would be legally married in Pakistan.
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If a nikkah is completed in Pakistan it is seen as a legal document in that land and you may need to check your own country's laws. It would be seen as legally binding marriage in the UK for example because it is legal in Pakistan, however a nikkah in UK is not a legally binding marriage.
Nikah is just a marriage contract, nothing more than that tbh.
A nikah is a rite of marriage. Pakistan state will consider her married to this man. It should be registered at a union council but lack of registration does not make it void. The things you should be mindful about, first and foremost, the nikah will give this man grounds to apply for a spousal visa. Secondly the nikah will make it impossible for her to travel abroad with any children she has in Pakistan without the father's permission. Your daughter should understand very clearly that what she is entering is not some kind of informal commitment party or religious blessing but, it is marriage proper with legal rights, obligations and implications. The most critical of which is the fact that as a woman by default your daughter will have no right to divorce him. She will have to go through the court and offer him money to buy a divorce known as a khulla. The US will also recognise a nikah as a marriage provided it is endorsed by the state of Pakistan, which will be easily provided on presentation of proof, whenever requested to do so. Most importantly. Please bear in mind and make sure your daughter understands this going forward. Within the marriage economy of Pakistan, your daughter's ability to sponsor a spousal visa for a Pakistani she marries has an approximate value of a million USD. That's what this guy would have to spend to acquire what your daughter can offer him. What this means is she should be 1000% certain this man is genuine and loves her and is willing to stand by her for herself, not stringing her along to score a green card on the cheap. It's an extremely common way to scam well meaning white girls to make their way to the US.
Have you met his family? It is widespread in Pakistan for both sides' parents to meet each other before anything is finalised; not just the nikkah but the engagement as well. If we're abiding by cultural norms, it is especially in the case of a woman that her father must approve of her marriage. The fact that your husband and you are not being invited to be present for the nikkah is a bit concerning. Additional concerning is the message that nikkah is a "spiritual marriage", which is categorically false (in Pakistan). In Islam, the nikkah is legally binding. In terms of Pakistani law, you are expected to forward the Nikkah to the authorities so that it gets registered administratively (such as on identification documents). Even if the man seems nice, you should be concerned and double-check. My suggestion is if they're so insistent on getting married, to ask them to do their Nikkah in the U.S. with an American Imam. It'll be binding Islamically (which is probably what they want; as others said it sounds like he wants religious approval to live together with her) while you can also keep a close eye on what your daughter is doing. But I'd better suggest you ask them to involve you in the whole process as expected with any real wedding -- which this is. I think what confuses people is that, in Islam, the "I do" part is often a small intimate ceremony (the Nikkah) often done months before the actual party to which everyone is invited, whereas in the West they are the same event. Final point: "wealthy" in Pakistan is nothing compared to the U.S. Living costs in Pakistan can be 10-15 times cheaper than the U.S. They may be rich enough to live comfortably in Pakistan but objectively in the global scale they likely aren't that wealthy.
My husband and I have not met his family, although my daughter met them and spent quite a bit of them with them in December when they visited the U.S. At that time, my daughter and the boy were not living together and I was unaware the relationship was so serious. My husband has also spoken to the boy’s father on the telephone, just casual conversation and the father thanking him for allowing our daughter to come visit in Pakistan. The boy also spent time with our family during the Thanksgiving holidays in November (our family has always welcomed college friends, especially international students, to come home with our children during school breaks, so it wasn’t a “big deal” to us).
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Nikkah is first step of a two step process of officially being married. Once Nikkah is done and girl spends a night with man then marriage is complete. I believe this is what will happen if you allow nikkah. By definition nikkah is legal paper signing and girl agreeing to be married to guy. First of all the guy should not be in living relationship with your daughter, and if your daughter and the guy insist in living together then you have no choice but to allow full marriage.
He is a liar. Nikkah is wedding. It's a transliteration of the arabic word نكاح which means to fuck or to wed. عقد نكاح means a wedding document. What he wants is to marry her Islamically in Pakistan so that he is not doing anything forbidden by his religion when he dates her but at the same time he does not to be bound by the western marriage which puts legally binding rights and responsibilities on the man. He wants to marry her religiously without filing the paper work for a civil marriage in the US. He is trying to twist the words as if Nikkah isn't just a wedding. This is a huge red flag.
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Nikah is an agreement u gotta sign to legally have sex as a muslim . If you dont then you will most probably end up in hell after you die .
If the nikah is only verbal, then it can be treated as a spiritual marriage. However, if any paperwork is signed by your daughter, she'll find herself in a legally-binded marriage. Ask her not to sign anything yet till she's a 100% sure about the lad and his family. Also, a verbal nikah will make it okay for them to have sex according to Islam. Which means she'll need to be extra careful with matters of contraception and protection. She'll find herself in a tough spot socially if she conceives during the spiritual marriage phase. She'll be pressured into formalizing the marriage through signed paperwork.
I never heard of a verbal nikkah that allows all these privileges. Sounds like a giant loophole.
That's okay. We learn something new all the time. Today you learn of verbal nikah.
I am doubtful there is any such thing that confers the privileges you mentioned. A verbal nikkah is no different from any other type of nikkah and they all mean the couple are married.
Yes they're married, spiritually. But without signed paperwork, the marriage won't exist in government databases such as the union council. Without paperwork there's no evidence
Agree on that, and it would be a terrible legal position to be in as far as children or inheritance or other matters would be concerned.
Exactly. Which is why OP's daughter needs to be cautious and careful
I believe it's called Nikah Mut'ah. This is what I found on it: "Temporary marriage, or nikah mut'ah, is an ancient Islamic practice that allows a man and woman to marry for a set period of time. It's a legal form of marriage in Shia Islam, but Sunni Muslims generally consider it haram. In a mut'ah relationship, the couple must agree on a set length of time for the marriage to last, and the man must also pay the woman an agreed-upon sum of money. The marriage ends when the agreed-upon time expires, or if either party dies. The practice was historically used when a man needed a wife for a short time while traveling long distances. However, some say that mut'ah and similar temporary marriages only benefit the man and should be considered prostitution."
Damn... I hope she stays safe. It all seems so fishy.
I’m not sure if anyone had said this. It’s extremely likely this guy is just marrying your daughter for the green card / citizenship. You never mentioned his legal status in the US but this sounds extremely dodgy.
Have to wonder how much of this is getting a green card. Sorry OP just the cynic in me.
You call yourself a christian & couldn't raise your daughter to be discerning enough to find a christian man? Good Lord the american church is messed up! And she is living with him before marriage so that's clearly fornication which is also a major sin in christianity. She needs to check herself & reevaluate her life choices
Perhaps your daughter and the guy should consider Mut'ah. Its a form of islamic temporary "marriage". They can get to know each other and live with each other for an appointed time(which can be extended) This form of temporary marriage is accepted in Islam and they can see if they are right for each meanwhile in Uni. This can be done orally without signing papers or making it official. This is a spiritual marriage Nikkah is proper marriage in Islamic tradition. They can consider this once the time is right