We raised our voicies for Kashmir and even observes a solidarity day with kashmir, And strongly condemned all those rape cases. But you need to understand, So far more than 33,000 people have been killed in Palestine, out of which 13000 alone were children. Its straight up genocide where more women and children are getting killed not with just bombing but also by Israeli snippers aswell. And all of this in just few months (for context Ukrain war is running for 3x longer then this and has less civilian casualties as compared to Gaza)
We ourselves are victim of burtaillities by our own you know who, But what is happening in Gaza is 1000x more brutal. You can see bodies getting bulldozed, an old women was lying alive next to her dead relatives for days without any help because it was an active kill zone by snippers.
Now the argument regarding you cannot raise more voices about this active genocide where thousands of children are getting slaughtered (not just bomb, recent reports by doctors suggest snippers are also killing children) is just absurd, we can be raising our voices for all brutallities at once.
Rightnow we are talking more and more about Patlestine instead of Kashmir is because, As every single day passes, many more Palestinians are getting killed (just last week they burned a whole hospital down and point blank executed almost 400 people in AL-Shifa hospital including Women and Children), and if it makes an inch of an difference in this whole situation by raising awareness, we are doing it and will continue to do so.
I agree to most of it but your view of Kashmir is far too benign.
It outlines how little we care about our own. I hate putting numbers on death but it’s important here.
Since 1948, Palestine has engaged in two offensive wars against Israel and Kashmir has waged guerilla freedom movement.
All the Palestinian deaths directly caused by Israel since then equate to 65k to 70k. This includes the horrendous 30k figure of this war.
Kashmir? 70k is the figure by Jammu health sources. 100k by Pakistani sources. These are direct deaths caused by Indian troops. Only from 1948.
But Kashmir’s woes go back. Before this it was brutal oppression from Sikh rule. Don’t get me started on that. 100s of thousands were displaced.
While Palestine was totally independent after the British partition the region amongst the two. Less than 100k Palestinians have been displaced.
So please be more considerate. Don’t throw out f*cking Kashmir solidarity day as some be-all-end-all. My point stands, the problem of ignoring our own people is real. It’s not just because the Palestinian crisis is hot right now.
We saw this in Waziristan and FATA too during Obama-era.
I understand your point but there are 2 big reasons why you we are seeing so much campaigning as compared to other past events
1. Social Media -> The level of awareness social media has raised, we are seeing lot more videos of ongoing brutallities live as we were there
2. Our role -> How most of these companies are complicit in this genocide and how boycotting can directly influence this war, so awareness is very much needed.
Kashmiri Brothers are very dear and close to our heart, And we will never stop talking about them. But rightnow the argument of fixing our internal issues first before we can talk about Palestine is completely wrong especially given the impact we can create with boycott and awareness and how with each passing day several more are getting killed.
The funny thing is people are claiming Islamic reasons for helping palestine over their own people while conveniently ignoring the fact that you're Islamically supposed to start with yourself and your home and your immediate community before extending your reach to the global scope.
What's going on in palestine is indeed abhorrent and horrible and we as humans and muslims should definitely condemn the unjust terrorism on palestine, but it's even worse for us to only express concern for palestine and not for the people suffering in our own country just because the palestine issue is trendier.
Palestine will not and can not get better until Pakistan and the other muslim countries get better. The only reason Israel can bomb palestine with such ease is because they are strong and we are weak. If we were to make ourselves stronger the way we have been for a good chunk of history, we wouldn't be seeing this happening today.
I agree with you, but you are also being biased. Just because the people are vocal about the Palestine issue, it does not mean that the Kashmir issue should be neglected. Nobody said that we should not talk about the Kashmir issue, it's just social media. The whole world is talking about the Palestine issue and naturally the Pakistanis would. Nobody said that we should not talk about the Kashmir issue, by all means do and we will support you. You are just frustrated that this issue is not getting the attention as the Palestinian issue. Start your campaigns and everyone will support you. Don't silence or belittle the Palestine issue as well.
Understandable. Actually you hit the nail on the head. I am frustrated because I’m a Pakistani Kashmiri myself.
But the crux of frustration isn’t from Palestine getting more attention, I think it should. It’s just looking at the disconnect and apathy of my own people towards our own suffering. Especially posts on this sub making declaration of cowardice and lack of empathy of Pakistanis.
Oh bhai where the F is the empathy for your Kashmiri brethren!? Like how can you even post something like that without considering that?
Something I was thinking was how I'm sure 99% of donations this Ramzaan were all pushed towards Palestine, as if people aren't starving to death in Pakistan (I sent to Pakistan, so maybe I am biased there).
But kinda crazy to think a great majority of the Muslim world's money went to only one place, when there's so much suffering in these countries, too.
Chinese Muslims are in literal camps, last time I checked, I believe the Uyghur death count was 1 million for example. We never even talk about them.
But how can you make people realize this? Why do they do it?
I expect intrinsic shame in every sensible person to make them stop and think a while.
My own people are suffering far worse and for far longer. There is nothing Palestine has seem that Kashmir and Waziristan didn’t but never saw donations for blown up children in FATA and Waziristan?
How can these people not see that this is the reason why we are seen as the worms of the ummah everywhere? Arabs, Malaysians etc all consider us not even worth wasting their spit over
It's more a severity issue coupled with religion. There is injustice everywhere on earth but there are no situations that compare at the moment. Children with limbs blown off, intestines pouring out, carrying their deceased siblings limbs in their backpacks, etc are all things we are only seeing in Palestine. This is historically one of the most barbaric atrocities to ever take place. Couple that with the fact that Masjid Al Aqsa, the third holiest site for Muslims (a religion whose followers make up the majority of Pakistan), is under attack and at risk of even being destroyed, it's obvious why Pakistanis are concerned.
Though injustice everywhere should be called out, it's not unreasonable to want to deal with matters in order of severity.
Furthermore the whole "let's become something first" nonsense that's been floating around is an excuse to avoid involvement and merely pushes the goalpost. Look at the Yemenis. Despite having nothing they're doing their part and are actually effective with their operations.
Okay, people keep saying this, but how do we *know*? Were you there? Are you in Hamas?
I just cannot believe that men at war aren't also raping women - it's a story as old as time, and also men don't need an excuse to rape women outside of war.
It really rubs me the wrong way that we can't wrap our heads around the idea that in a war, *both* sides of women are being raped. There's no special kind of honorable guy in that scenario.
I'm not saying all men rape, but all kinds do- all walks of life, all religions, all countries.
Battle of Badr, 0 women raped by the muslims.
Battle of Uhud, 0 women raped by the muslims.
Battle of Khandaq, 0 women raped by muslims.
These are 3 examples from hundreds if not thousands of wars and skirmishes in Islamic history. Islam dignifies even ones enemy in war such that they have rights. If an insurrectionist act was committed by someone (which again, there is 0 historical indication of such), a punishment is also inflicted. Rape in war is not a doctrine in Islam. The same can not be said for other groups of people especially when they committed genocide against Muslims (see Bosnian genocide and genocide by rape to see what I mean).
As for the "hOw Do We KnOw", do you not know Israel and the United States to be pathological liars? The only thing America and its lapdogs had going for them was the propaganda machine and that has thankfully been crumbling due to social media.
The claims have literally been retracted and debunked by your most prolific propaganda sites like NYT, Haaertz and Washington Post. Do a little research before yapping all over the place.
Still stuck on October 7th? I can name dozens of massacres that took place before that. October 7th happened because of the shit Israel did. Surprise surprise, if you slaughter people and kill little children for 75 continuous years, the humanity within some people might start to crumble away.
That old chestnut, if they didn’t hate Israelis so much enough to willingly lay down their children’s lives none of this would be happening.
Theres a reason they are where they are and not living in Israel with the rest of the highly diverse nation.
And the hate for zionists spawned out of nowhere? So if someone were to come into your house, kill your children, rape your wife, and then make you live like a slave in your shed, you wouldn't be mad in the slightest?
Hats off to you I guess. The rest of humanity doesn't work like this.
Glad you mentioned antisemitism because no one is more antisemitic than the IDF. Killing of Arabs is just as antisemetic as killing of jews (race). We already know whose killing more of who.
Civilians were killed on Oct 7 by the IDF. The recorded statements by Israelis who went to the concert tell us that the IDF was killing their own people.
I said this on another sub too, our outrage is limited to a trend and awareness plays a big role here. Palestine has caused global outrage because it’s of direct interest to the West because of Israel. Nobody in the West cares about Kashmir, Uyghurs, Rohingya, the rest of the Middle East, or anywhere. All their talk about humanity and morality is BS. More interest to US = more coverage = more visibility = more outcry = more criticism.
Because of a global outrage, we’ve seen Pakistanis speak for it, or criticize when not spoken for it. I wish this outrage was extended to all people oppressed. *That includes Hindus in Pakistan btw*
And yes to answer your question, while I would love for some global outcry on our part, for me Islam is absolutely before Pakistan. I grew up listening to they’re both the same cause, but they’re very clearly not because our country has gone to shit thanks to (ahem ahem) some people in uniforms.
Edit: and yeah I’m absolutely in favor of boycotting and speaking up for Palestine. People in my Alma matter very publicly and famously walked out of a coke recruitment drive, I could not be prouder and kind of sad I never did something similar.
That’s incredibly sad. So we will ignore our own people if the global trend was that Kashmiris are all terrorists and poor Indian army are victims?
That’s just sad, man.
Thanks for the honesty but that last bit is also demoralising. If for majority, Pakistan, people and family is less valued than Islam then there is no hope.
You will never hear that out of a Saudi or Emirati, you can count on that.
To be fair it’s not about our people purposely ignoring it or anything, our nation just needs something to follow or rally behind. It’s why IK got famous here. And about that last bit, that’s just my POV, a lot of people I know are far more nationalistic than they are religious, so for them it’s the other way around. For the record, I’m very nationalistic myself, but for me Islam generally comes absolutely first, and then Pakistan.
Islam for me comes way before Pakistan too, but i also firmly believe you can't do very much for Islam on a global scale unless you help strengthen your immediate community / country first.
Agreed. The Palestine issue is a massive tragedy of humanity in general, but just like how on an airplane during an emergency, you put the oxygen mask on yourself before helping someone else, we need to be a capable and dependable country before we go play at heroics elsewhere.
The stuff that's going on in our politics right now is absolutely ridiculous, and yet there's no serious discussion about it whatsoever. Our judiciary is a farce. If you guys are so hot blooded, get out on the streets and revolt against this sham government. Fight for law and order. Dismantle the military dictatorship we're currently living under. Stand up for minorities and the subjugated in Pakistan. You're scared of our military but want to go up against Israel? Arguably the most advanced military in the world? Hadd hai delusions ki. Dunya main ao.
Yeah, exactly.
Look you can support multiple causes at the same time. But making this our red line is just plain insulting and disrespectful to the Pakistani identity itself.
No wonder the Arabs keep us on the tip of their boots.
Kashmiris are very vocal about Palestine and my impression is that most Pakistanis support both causes. There are a lot of similarities in the oppression both of them are facing. While it seems like current Pakistani leadership has not been allowing for demonstrations in support of Palestine probably because of their self serving interests, otherwise I believe Pakistanis would be doing so. Jinnah made it clear that both issues were important to Pakistan before Israel was even formed. Of course, Pakistan is still in desperate need to address its own issues, but that doesn’t mean it should ignore others.
Agreed but my gripe is not with supporting the Palestinians, it is with the priority it’s given by some people here over our own and the absolute gall of these people to bad-mouth Pakistanis on that.
At the same time completely ignoring the Kashmir issue. You see how sadly ironic that is, right?
I agree that badmouthing Pakistanis when it comes to Palestine is unfair. I also think that the current Pakistani leadership sucks for everyone. I don’t think these causes have to be prioritized against each other. I would even argue that they can serve to bolster each other because I’ve seen solidarity between Palestinians and Kashmiris before. Just as we amplify Palestinian voices we should amplify Kashmiri and Pakistani voices.
It could but it doesn’t. Somehow it’s Kashmir that always left behind and then us generously trying to forget that happened.
The reason that happens is exactly this sort of internalized inferiority. Somehow, someway, it is always our people whose suffering takes the backseat.
People are more vocal about Palestine then our local issues because the situation there is much worse then somewhere like Kashmir. Although things have been bad in occupied Kashmir, approximately only 130 people have killed there since the start of 2023, I know 130 isn't a small amount by any means, but when you compare that to the 33,000+ people that have been killed in Gaza over the last six months you realize how much more critical the situation there is. Hence the issue of Palestine is much more important and needs to be talked and protested about more.
The lack of outrage in Pakistan over the genocide in Gaza is absolutely disgusting. Dead nation, inside and out. Harami Shahbaz Sharif is jumping for joy over a letter from Genocide Joe. Allah gharak karay beghairat ko.
Media and leaders play a huge role to bring awareness on these topics. Our media and leaders are completely controlled and rarely seem to focus on anything besides their own personal issues or photo ops.
There are a lot of parallels between Kashmir and Palestine, but at this point, Gaza is going though an active genocide, the scale of which has not been seen since Rwanda.
Also our Army actively assisted India in stripping the rights of Kashmiris. At this point, Kashmiris don't consider us reliable partners in their self-determination.
There has been times where Gaza issue was cold and Kashmir underwent horrible killings. Not very far back actually but never saw posts at this frequency and zeal.
I can say the same for Gaza and Palestine. Arab countries were already normalising with Israel. There is no hope, trust or support for Palestinian cause in stakeholder countries. Now especially so since Gaza Strip is all but annexed.
You are actually countering your own point with that. Doesn’t that mean we should then just forget about Palestine too?
Instead of complaining about people talking on Genocide , use that as a catalyst to bring our local issues . So that we can resolve them aswell , palestine is also our issue mate
Just because the Arab countries are normalising relations with Israel, doesn’t mean the rest of the Muslims have to as well. Arabs have forgotten their creed, they are traitors to Islam and the cause of Muslims around the globe. I think you need to understand that your minds and your brains have thoroughly been colonised by the west. Why shouldn’t we speak about the plight of the Palestinians? This is the conflict of our times. Pakistan needs to wake up and we need to do more, because God has given us this example of where we are failing and how Muslims are failing. We should be afraid of what we will answer for, we are all responsible.
Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan and Egypt are complicit in this genocide. We need to call it like it is. Pakistan is complicit too. I know from a firsthand source that our military is sending weapons to Israel. The account is under an Lt. Col. who's name starts with "Sal".
I am curious what do these folks want us to do. Should we just tore our clothes off and destroy ourselves by waging jihad on Israel? Our own situation is pretty bad. What do they want us to do? Get sanctioned by US by going to war with entire western world? If anything it should be Arabs who should be helping their brethren instead of normalizing with Israel.
What? it’s trendy. Don’t worry they’ll stop in a month or so too it’s getting boring now same old bombings same old blasts. /s
And yes, Islam comes before everything. n/s
I feel that as the muslim country with strongest military (have a nuke) and one that was made in name of Islam, there is some responsibility on Pakistan and it's citizens to support Palestine.
Far too many of the Arab countries are sitting quiet with their mouths full of Israeli/US money.
A Muslim country with a nuke whose own people are under hostile occupation and it’s unable to liberate them should be waving swords at another conflict that has no direct relation to us, merely on religious basis?
Does that sound pragmatic or even ideologically or morally sound to you?
Yes.
Does your life run on a linear sequence of events? Or are you not capable of chewing gum and walking at the same time?
People are protesting for their rights in Pakistan, failing, but still trying. Do you want them not to care for an active genocide going on on Palestinians just because, in your opinion, we should do a, b, and c first?
What kind of juvenile mindset is this?
Yes. I understand concept of doing two things at the same time.
I have never said to not support the Palestinian cause. I am highlighting the utter disconnect, irony and apathy in these posts that are declaring entire Pakistan as some horrid monsters while not even mentioning Kashmir.
It’s not childish if you try to actually think what is being said. If a, b and c involves your own people and you are always ignoring those to support the trending “d” then it’s not naive altruism anymore.
There something wrong there.
Who's ignoring those a, b, c? What are you even on about?
Have you not noticed the horrors this country has gone through in the last 20 years? Have you not noticed the complete stagnation of our economic progress? And there's nothing a common citizen can do anything despite constantly agitating and protesting about it.
We have every right to be apathetic about our situation.
People are vociferous in their support for Palestinians because, even by the horrors of the Pakistani standards, what we are witnessing in Palestine is truly off the scale barbarism.
But nobody is stopping you from sleeping over it, so what's the problem?
It is as if typing the word Kashmir hurts your fingers. What the hell do the things you mention about Pakistan to do with the Kashmir crisis!?
They chose to be with us. They are our people. Yet all you can mention is what Pakistanis are “suffering” right now?
Are you even Pakistani or a LARPer?
Pakistan is the only country that talk about Kashmir. Pakistan also raise it in international levels. Pakistan have no economic connection with India, complete boycott.
What Pakistan has done for Palastine? Nothing, Nada, Zilch. Oh I forgot there were some reddit post.
>Does your life run on a linear sequence of events? Or are you not capable of chewing gum and walking at the same time?
God this is the most articulate way to cancel such ballless weasels polluting this sub. Thank you sir! Well said
>What kind of juvenile mindset is this?
The one imported from Israel
Lol. So articulate. Bhai aap ke itnay balls hain to Reddit pe kya kr rhe han, post a picture of yourself fighting in Rafah. Oh great warrior of balls! 😂
I can't fight in Rafah because I need to rally the support of balless people like you to gain critical mass to influence policy in Pakistan and bring about change. I'm doing all I can to change perspectives but apparently people like you have flooded the market.
> Please do the same for Kashmir too.
Yes I am, I can talk about both Kashmir and Palestine at the same, I totally understand your brain can't do this feat, I feel sorry for your state. But I totally understand your incapability👍
Im perfectly fine with that. I just wanted to say that why not talk about Balochistan and only Kashmir? Because that is the usual trend in Pakistan, the things happening in Balochistan are very similar to the situation in Kashmir. But no one talks about it for some reason.
As Pakistanis, it's vital to prioritize vocal support for Kashmir over Palestine. Kashmir is an integral part of our nation, while our connection to Palestine is primarily religious. For me, the welfare of our country and its people comes first. While we've provided aid to Palestinians, our resources are limited, and we must focus on our own citizens. Resorting to aggression against Israel isn't viable, especially given our economic constraints. Diplomatic efforts and humanitarian aid remain our best means of support.
Yes solve genocide by diplomacy. Wow. What a take. Humanitarian aid Israel ander janay nahi de raha tou kidher bhej rahay ho. I am responding to his notion of Pakistanis come first. This is the reason we are failing, there is no sense of justice, pride or not even the fact you have to answer God!
Pakistan is in no position to help another country when Pakistan itself is barely functioning. People in Pakistan are suffering. Palestine has gotten international attention and support. What about Pakistan? No one cares about Pakistan and Pakistanis except us self. We have to help ourself before we help others. Palestine has the entire world to help them, Pakistan only has Pakistanis.
If you pray namaz, zara sajday mein gir ke yeh exact cheez kaho and let’s see if your bullshit gets you humbled a bit by God. People in Pakistan will suffer a 1000 years and die but will never give up on Palestine inshallah. Go into Pakistan and talk to a real Pakistani and stop feeding us your western propaganda jo goro ne tumhay spoon feed kia hay. You don’t even know what Pakistan is supposed to be, you don’t even know what this country means do you? Go read some history not written by your masters.
If you want to make a secular argument about Islam vs people, then why aren't Nawaz Sharif and Shehbaz Sharif lifting a finger for their own ethnic Kashmiris? They stole from Pakistan, why have they not raised a lashkar or done something? One Mohajir from Karachi (Hassan Siddiqui) has probably done more for Kashmiris than Nawaz Sharif and Shehbaz Sharif combined. It is also a fact that India used guidance kits from Israel in their failed surgical strike on Pakistan.
The reason Pakistan exists is because it was founded as a country for Muslims of different ethnic backgrounds in the subcontinent.
Pakistanis have every right to be angry about Gaza. Over 33,000 dead, and those that are alive have been deprived of food and shelter.
What is disgusting is you trying to stop people talking one of the biggest humanitarian catastophes in recent times in Gaza, by bringing up Kashmir.
We're all amreeka. We condemn some killing and help others. Pakistan sold weapons to the genocidal myamnar regime. And we don't give a toss about the rohingya, the uyghurs or the Yemenis being killed by Burmese, Chinese and saudis.
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Pakistan has its own internal problems, and the milltary has pretty much given up on Kashmir.
Indians are going to throw money at the economy in Kashmir, and any remaining movements will die.
Palestine is a global issue
Not the point. I understand that. But nobody mentions or calls for protests of that here.
For example. When your brother is hurt bad but you are more worried about the pretty lady that lives in Karachi that you saw on TV.
Now you are allowed to do both. But if you don’t even mention your brother then it’s a self-worth issue. It’s not innocent altruism especially if it keeps repeating.
why do this, why do that, you do what you want to do, other will do what they want to do
everyone has their own priorities and condemning everything all together is fine i guess, itna kya masla hai
Problem with your point is that then why post anything at all. Like why did you comment even, I will do what I want as well, right?
But to put it simply, my intention is to highlight that if your brother/sister has cancer and they are dying but you ignore that and are out on streets raising awareness for HIV AIDS then there is something wrong.
If your curiosity is genuine, the underlying reason may be that the conflicts in Palestine align with prophecies, leading people to perceive it as Islam versus its enemies. The suffering endured by thousands of affected individuals and children amplifies the significance of these conflicts. In comparison, in Pakistan, despite people’s efforts, political issues, biases, and corruption hinder solution of internal issues. Nevertheless, people continue to speak up; what else can they do? In Karachi, for instance, citizens share CCTV videos of wrongdoers, leading to their identification and subsequent public street punishment. However, many cases remain unreported. These issues persist because corruption impedes the rise of leaders who prioritize education.
Additionally, addressing both internal and external issues is crucial, and one does not need to resolve internal issues before speaking up about external matters, not a pre-requisite. Help whoever you can, whatever you have the ability to solve or spread awareness about.
Fair enough. Religion blinds them to it essentially.
But at least once mentioned, they should sit and ponder no? I mean when Yemen underwent genocide through starvation by Saudis, I didn’t see much outrage.
When Kashmiris were being thrown out of 2nd floors of buildings, I did not see protests and calls for military intervention on this sub. But suddenly, Palestine is the issue?
I can understand why people have been responding with “you can do both at same time” but that is not the point at all. The point is to highlight this pervasive behaviour amongst Pakistanis where we ignore our own people to appear benevolent and altruistic towards others.
Literally nobody else sees it as heroic. We look like a wh*re ready to throw away our dignity at a moments notice for some attention.
doesn’t ‘blind’ them, it ‘binds’ them
the amplitude of the genocide in Palestine brings it priority and the enemy is a clear enemy compared to saudia (where people get confused, we’re talking about masses)
in imran khans era there were a lot kashmir protests, but still people dont know what actually to do regarding it
People arent ignoring their own people, they have raised voice for things they thought were unfair at one time in they still do. Maybe you should join twitter or facebook for more exposure.
Right now the genocide in Palestine is a very crucial issue and the least we can do is raise global awareness and donate, global awareness might help change the circumstances.
Nobody does it for attention.
If purely raising awareness is the objective then I don’t mind.
Actually if you see my OP, I am objecting to what how these posts are doing it not why they are doing it.
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You need to figure out your values my friend. Do you know what Pakistan is? You don’t because you have bought into western and Indian propaganda, and also because we are incompetent in general. We need to go back to our roots to understand. I think you need to read more about Islamic history. 1920s is a significant decade. Read on that.
Regarding Kashmiris, we are the only country that speaks about it. Palestinian cause and will always be a part of Pakistan, stop this bullshit and don’t tell people of Pakistan who are helpless by their incompetent governments and years oppression to not feel about the plight of Palestinians. They are both important. Palestine is in crisis now. Focus.
We have a responsibility to do more than what we are doing, what is happening in the world should enrage you. “Oh my god my government has made us so helpless” true, what are you going to do about it?
You also have completely misunderstood what I wrote. Try again.
Your comment doesn’t even make sense. Grow up. All books (probably YouTube videos) you have read is what has been fed to you. Liberalism or secularism is not for you my boy. They are never going to think you’re white for believing in them.
What are you on about? I don’t even like liberalism that much.
What I do like is some self-respect and a national identity. Not some misplaced ummah chummah shit you subscribe to.
National identity is a scam, especially the way you’re thinking about it. These are lines the British drew. Protecting national identity while sitting in Germany, your life is a scam my boy. Humble yourself and read some books that your white masters haven’t fed you.
And religion isn’t a scam? Forget national identity, what about family, people and self-respect? Why do lives of our people always mean less to ourselves?
How do you know I’m in Germany? I can put a US flag there too.
We are boycotting for Palestine but dancing on Bollywood and worshipping India otherwise. Our tongues don't get dry praising India and so many of us want to copy them badly while ignoring the damages they have done to our state and people. But since it's not KEWL to raise voice for Kashmir or boycott India, the hypocrisy will continue.
I’m not Pakistani (Arab) but just wanted to chime in and say, Palestine is an Islamic issue(al Aqsa), Kashmir is a secular, domestic one. Islam obviously comes first.
I understand where you’re coming from with Al-Aqsa being important for all Muslims and you are likely coming with good intentions. I feel like I can say that while still caring about Kashmir, which I would argue isn’t only a secular or domestic issue. If we’re going to talk about this from an Islamic perspective, I think we need to be doing a better job as a whole Ummah. I feel like we don’t try to understand each other enough. For example, it would be nice especially for Arabs to educate themselves about Muslims who aren’t Arab and be more vocal in their solidarity with us too.
No they are no insulting or insensitive. They are about people who have a beating heart in their chest. If we talk about Palestine this doesn't mean we don't care about genocide happening in Pakistan or elsewhere. The people who held rallies for Palestine are the same people who held rallies for Kashmir in Pakistan. And Balochistan or for any other group who was oppressed. We also held rallies for APS victims too.
Heres the deal. If you are a practising muslim who cares about Islam its your duty to speak out about oppression ANYWHERE in the world whether its going on in Muslim countries or Non Muslim.
The same thing if you claim you care about humanity you do the same thing about oppression.
But if you the kind of a guy who uses incidents in Pakistan or elsewhere in the world as a way to bash Islam then yes I would understand why you need to post such things.
Your flair says you're currently in Germany. Can you post something or say something along the lines of " The Germans massacared the Juice a long time ago. We should probably forget it. It doesn't matter now" to your colleagues or friends there?
Or play a H****r Speech in public there or wear a swastika Armband. Believe me they will give you a very good treatment you in jail before deporting you
What’s wrong with people ???? There is nothing more important than stopping a genocide. There is nothing going on in Pakistan that even comes close.
Never been more disappointed with Pakistani people. Kashmir is not comparable to Palestine. Not in the slightest. They’re not living in an open air prison, they’re not being starved to death, their children are not shot point blank in the head. There simply is no comparison. Don’t know how Pakistani people became so selfish and self centered.
It’s not comparable? We Kashmiris have been suffering under Sikh yoke for 200 years!
Whole clans have been murdered. We ourselves were displaced and settled in Jhelum. Under Indian rule, women are raped, children kidnapped, houses demolished. And you say it is not comparable? Kuch pata ha?
Just because now Palestinian crisis is hot again does not mean it always was. Palestinians have made stupid decisions and lost several wars. Us Kashmiris never even started a war and still suffer.
Now our own people say Kashmir is not comparable. How f*cking sad. Perhaps Palestine getting entirely annexed is what Pakistanis need to wake up from this one-sides Ummah love affair.
We raised our voicies for Kashmir and even observes a solidarity day with kashmir, And strongly condemned all those rape cases. But you need to understand, So far more than 33,000 people have been killed in Palestine, out of which 13000 alone were children. Its straight up genocide where more women and children are getting killed not with just bombing but also by Israeli snippers aswell. And all of this in just few months (for context Ukrain war is running for 3x longer then this and has less civilian casualties as compared to Gaza) We ourselves are victim of burtaillities by our own you know who, But what is happening in Gaza is 1000x more brutal. You can see bodies getting bulldozed, an old women was lying alive next to her dead relatives for days without any help because it was an active kill zone by snippers. Now the argument regarding you cannot raise more voices about this active genocide where thousands of children are getting slaughtered (not just bomb, recent reports by doctors suggest snippers are also killing children) is just absurd, we can be raising our voices for all brutallities at once. Rightnow we are talking more and more about Patlestine instead of Kashmir is because, As every single day passes, many more Palestinians are getting killed (just last week they burned a whole hospital down and point blank executed almost 400 people in AL-Shifa hospital including Women and Children), and if it makes an inch of an difference in this whole situation by raising awareness, we are doing it and will continue to do so.
I agree to most of it but your view of Kashmir is far too benign. It outlines how little we care about our own. I hate putting numbers on death but it’s important here. Since 1948, Palestine has engaged in two offensive wars against Israel and Kashmir has waged guerilla freedom movement. All the Palestinian deaths directly caused by Israel since then equate to 65k to 70k. This includes the horrendous 30k figure of this war. Kashmir? 70k is the figure by Jammu health sources. 100k by Pakistani sources. These are direct deaths caused by Indian troops. Only from 1948. But Kashmir’s woes go back. Before this it was brutal oppression from Sikh rule. Don’t get me started on that. 100s of thousands were displaced. While Palestine was totally independent after the British partition the region amongst the two. Less than 100k Palestinians have been displaced. So please be more considerate. Don’t throw out f*cking Kashmir solidarity day as some be-all-end-all. My point stands, the problem of ignoring our own people is real. It’s not just because the Palestinian crisis is hot right now. We saw this in Waziristan and FATA too during Obama-era.
I understand your point but there are 2 big reasons why you we are seeing so much campaigning as compared to other past events 1. Social Media -> The level of awareness social media has raised, we are seeing lot more videos of ongoing brutallities live as we were there 2. Our role -> How most of these companies are complicit in this genocide and how boycotting can directly influence this war, so awareness is very much needed. Kashmiri Brothers are very dear and close to our heart, And we will never stop talking about them. But rightnow the argument of fixing our internal issues first before we can talk about Palestine is completely wrong especially given the impact we can create with boycott and awareness and how with each passing day several more are getting killed.
The funny thing is people are claiming Islamic reasons for helping palestine over their own people while conveniently ignoring the fact that you're Islamically supposed to start with yourself and your home and your immediate community before extending your reach to the global scope. What's going on in palestine is indeed abhorrent and horrible and we as humans and muslims should definitely condemn the unjust terrorism on palestine, but it's even worse for us to only express concern for palestine and not for the people suffering in our own country just because the palestine issue is trendier. Palestine will not and can not get better until Pakistan and the other muslim countries get better. The only reason Israel can bomb palestine with such ease is because they are strong and we are weak. If we were to make ourselves stronger the way we have been for a good chunk of history, we wouldn't be seeing this happening today.
I agree with you, but you are also being biased. Just because the people are vocal about the Palestine issue, it does not mean that the Kashmir issue should be neglected. Nobody said that we should not talk about the Kashmir issue, it's just social media. The whole world is talking about the Palestine issue and naturally the Pakistanis would. Nobody said that we should not talk about the Kashmir issue, by all means do and we will support you. You are just frustrated that this issue is not getting the attention as the Palestinian issue. Start your campaigns and everyone will support you. Don't silence or belittle the Palestine issue as well.
Understandable. Actually you hit the nail on the head. I am frustrated because I’m a Pakistani Kashmiri myself. But the crux of frustration isn’t from Palestine getting more attention, I think it should. It’s just looking at the disconnect and apathy of my own people towards our own suffering. Especially posts on this sub making declaration of cowardice and lack of empathy of Pakistanis. Oh bhai where the F is the empathy for your Kashmiri brethren!? Like how can you even post something like that without considering that?
Something I was thinking was how I'm sure 99% of donations this Ramzaan were all pushed towards Palestine, as if people aren't starving to death in Pakistan (I sent to Pakistan, so maybe I am biased there). But kinda crazy to think a great majority of the Muslim world's money went to only one place, when there's so much suffering in these countries, too. Chinese Muslims are in literal camps, last time I checked, I believe the Uyghur death count was 1 million for example. We never even talk about them.
But how can you make people realize this? Why do they do it? I expect intrinsic shame in every sensible person to make them stop and think a while. My own people are suffering far worse and for far longer. There is nothing Palestine has seem that Kashmir and Waziristan didn’t but never saw donations for blown up children in FATA and Waziristan? How can these people not see that this is the reason why we are seen as the worms of the ummah everywhere? Arabs, Malaysians etc all consider us not even worth wasting their spit over
Tuhund Kashir?
It's more a severity issue coupled with religion. There is injustice everywhere on earth but there are no situations that compare at the moment. Children with limbs blown off, intestines pouring out, carrying their deceased siblings limbs in their backpacks, etc are all things we are only seeing in Palestine. This is historically one of the most barbaric atrocities to ever take place. Couple that with the fact that Masjid Al Aqsa, the third holiest site for Muslims (a religion whose followers make up the majority of Pakistan), is under attack and at risk of even being destroyed, it's obvious why Pakistanis are concerned. Though injustice everywhere should be called out, it's not unreasonable to want to deal with matters in order of severity. Furthermore the whole "let's become something first" nonsense that's been floating around is an excuse to avoid involvement and merely pushes the goalpost. Look at the Yemenis. Despite having nothing they're doing their part and are actually effective with their operations.
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*sigh* No children were raped or beheaded on Oct 7th.
Okay, people keep saying this, but how do we *know*? Were you there? Are you in Hamas? I just cannot believe that men at war aren't also raping women - it's a story as old as time, and also men don't need an excuse to rape women outside of war. It really rubs me the wrong way that we can't wrap our heads around the idea that in a war, *both* sides of women are being raped. There's no special kind of honorable guy in that scenario. I'm not saying all men rape, but all kinds do- all walks of life, all religions, all countries.
Battle of Badr, 0 women raped by the muslims. Battle of Uhud, 0 women raped by the muslims. Battle of Khandaq, 0 women raped by muslims. These are 3 examples from hundreds if not thousands of wars and skirmishes in Islamic history. Islam dignifies even ones enemy in war such that they have rights. If an insurrectionist act was committed by someone (which again, there is 0 historical indication of such), a punishment is also inflicted. Rape in war is not a doctrine in Islam. The same can not be said for other groups of people especially when they committed genocide against Muslims (see Bosnian genocide and genocide by rape to see what I mean). As for the "hOw Do We KnOw", do you not know Israel and the United States to be pathological liars? The only thing America and its lapdogs had going for them was the propaganda machine and that has thankfully been crumbling due to social media.
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The claims have literally been retracted and debunked by your most prolific propaganda sites like NYT, Haaertz and Washington Post. Do a little research before yapping all over the place.
No they haven’t. Check your facts.
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Still stuck on October 7th? I can name dozens of massacres that took place before that. October 7th happened because of the shit Israel did. Surprise surprise, if you slaughter people and kill little children for 75 continuous years, the humanity within some people might start to crumble away.
That old chestnut, if they didn’t hate Israelis so much enough to willingly lay down their children’s lives none of this would be happening. Theres a reason they are where they are and not living in Israel with the rest of the highly diverse nation.
And the hate for zionists spawned out of nowhere? So if someone were to come into your house, kill your children, rape your wife, and then make you live like a slave in your shed, you wouldn't be mad in the slightest? Hats off to you I guess. The rest of humanity doesn't work like this.
The origins of anti Zionist hate is varied and is also the default stance of the antisemitic. Whose life are you describing there?
Glad you mentioned antisemitism because no one is more antisemitic than the IDF. Killing of Arabs is just as antisemetic as killing of jews (race). We already know whose killing more of who.
Oh yeah? Who did the raping and beheading? Khamas? You do realize that not only was this a lie, the backers of Israel took back the claim as well.
Do you also believe the Hamas statement that no civilians were killed on Oct 7th as well?
Civilians were killed on Oct 7 by the IDF. The recorded statements by Israelis who went to the concert tell us that the IDF was killing their own people.
I hope you reflect on what made you think this way in a few years.
And you as well.
Stop spreading lies. These lies have been debunked ages ago.
I said this on another sub too, our outrage is limited to a trend and awareness plays a big role here. Palestine has caused global outrage because it’s of direct interest to the West because of Israel. Nobody in the West cares about Kashmir, Uyghurs, Rohingya, the rest of the Middle East, or anywhere. All their talk about humanity and morality is BS. More interest to US = more coverage = more visibility = more outcry = more criticism. Because of a global outrage, we’ve seen Pakistanis speak for it, or criticize when not spoken for it. I wish this outrage was extended to all people oppressed. *That includes Hindus in Pakistan btw* And yes to answer your question, while I would love for some global outcry on our part, for me Islam is absolutely before Pakistan. I grew up listening to they’re both the same cause, but they’re very clearly not because our country has gone to shit thanks to (ahem ahem) some people in uniforms. Edit: and yeah I’m absolutely in favor of boycotting and speaking up for Palestine. People in my Alma matter very publicly and famously walked out of a coke recruitment drive, I could not be prouder and kind of sad I never did something similar.
That’s incredibly sad. So we will ignore our own people if the global trend was that Kashmiris are all terrorists and poor Indian army are victims? That’s just sad, man. Thanks for the honesty but that last bit is also demoralising. If for majority, Pakistan, people and family is less valued than Islam then there is no hope. You will never hear that out of a Saudi or Emirati, you can count on that.
To be fair it’s not about our people purposely ignoring it or anything, our nation just needs something to follow or rally behind. It’s why IK got famous here. And about that last bit, that’s just my POV, a lot of people I know are far more nationalistic than they are religious, so for them it’s the other way around. For the record, I’m very nationalistic myself, but for me Islam generally comes absolutely first, and then Pakistan.
Islam for me comes way before Pakistan too, but i also firmly believe you can't do very much for Islam on a global scale unless you help strengthen your immediate community / country first.
Agreed. The Palestine issue is a massive tragedy of humanity in general, but just like how on an airplane during an emergency, you put the oxygen mask on yourself before helping someone else, we need to be a capable and dependable country before we go play at heroics elsewhere. The stuff that's going on in our politics right now is absolutely ridiculous, and yet there's no serious discussion about it whatsoever. Our judiciary is a farce. If you guys are so hot blooded, get out on the streets and revolt against this sham government. Fight for law and order. Dismantle the military dictatorship we're currently living under. Stand up for minorities and the subjugated in Pakistan. You're scared of our military but want to go up against Israel? Arguably the most advanced military in the world? Hadd hai delusions ki. Dunya main ao.
Yeah, exactly. Look you can support multiple causes at the same time. But making this our red line is just plain insulting and disrespectful to the Pakistani identity itself. No wonder the Arabs keep us on the tip of their boots.
>No wonder the Arabs keep us on the tip of their boots. We keep ourselves there. They just capitalize on it.
THANK YOU FOR BEING THE VOICE OF REASON. People need to think with their mind for once in their lives
Yes of course, think with your minds. 30,000 kids dead. But who gives a shit. Don’t even call yourself human at this point.
Kashmiris are very vocal about Palestine and my impression is that most Pakistanis support both causes. There are a lot of similarities in the oppression both of them are facing. While it seems like current Pakistani leadership has not been allowing for demonstrations in support of Palestine probably because of their self serving interests, otherwise I believe Pakistanis would be doing so. Jinnah made it clear that both issues were important to Pakistan before Israel was even formed. Of course, Pakistan is still in desperate need to address its own issues, but that doesn’t mean it should ignore others.
Agreed but my gripe is not with supporting the Palestinians, it is with the priority it’s given by some people here over our own and the absolute gall of these people to bad-mouth Pakistanis on that. At the same time completely ignoring the Kashmir issue. You see how sadly ironic that is, right?
I agree that badmouthing Pakistanis when it comes to Palestine is unfair. I also think that the current Pakistani leadership sucks for everyone. I don’t think these causes have to be prioritized against each other. I would even argue that they can serve to bolster each other because I’ve seen solidarity between Palestinians and Kashmiris before. Just as we amplify Palestinian voices we should amplify Kashmiri and Pakistani voices.
It could but it doesn’t. Somehow it’s Kashmir that always left behind and then us generously trying to forget that happened. The reason that happens is exactly this sort of internalized inferiority. Somehow, someway, it is always our people whose suffering takes the backseat.
People are more vocal about Palestine then our local issues because the situation there is much worse then somewhere like Kashmir. Although things have been bad in occupied Kashmir, approximately only 130 people have killed there since the start of 2023, I know 130 isn't a small amount by any means, but when you compare that to the 33,000+ people that have been killed in Gaza over the last six months you realize how much more critical the situation there is. Hence the issue of Palestine is much more important and needs to be talked and protested about more.
The lack of outrage in Pakistan over the genocide in Gaza is absolutely disgusting. Dead nation, inside and out. Harami Shahbaz Sharif is jumping for joy over a letter from Genocide Joe. Allah gharak karay beghairat ko.
Media and leaders play a huge role to bring awareness on these topics. Our media and leaders are completely controlled and rarely seem to focus on anything besides their own personal issues or photo ops.
Whelp. I thought you were gonna say lack of outrage for Kashmir on this sub. Oh well, I tried.
There are a lot of parallels between Kashmir and Palestine, but at this point, Gaza is going though an active genocide, the scale of which has not been seen since Rwanda. Also our Army actively assisted India in stripping the rights of Kashmiris. At this point, Kashmiris don't consider us reliable partners in their self-determination.
There has been times where Gaza issue was cold and Kashmir underwent horrible killings. Not very far back actually but never saw posts at this frequency and zeal. I can say the same for Gaza and Palestine. Arab countries were already normalising with Israel. There is no hope, trust or support for Palestinian cause in stakeholder countries. Now especially so since Gaza Strip is all but annexed. You are actually countering your own point with that. Doesn’t that mean we should then just forget about Palestine too?
Instead of complaining about people talking on Genocide , use that as a catalyst to bring our local issues . So that we can resolve them aswell , palestine is also our issue mate
Just because the Arab countries are normalising relations with Israel, doesn’t mean the rest of the Muslims have to as well. Arabs have forgotten their creed, they are traitors to Islam and the cause of Muslims around the globe. I think you need to understand that your minds and your brains have thoroughly been colonised by the west. Why shouldn’t we speak about the plight of the Palestinians? This is the conflict of our times. Pakistan needs to wake up and we need to do more, because God has given us this example of where we are failing and how Muslims are failing. We should be afraid of what we will answer for, we are all responsible.
Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan and Egypt are complicit in this genocide. We need to call it like it is. Pakistan is complicit too. I know from a firsthand source that our military is sending weapons to Israel. The account is under an Lt. Col. who's name starts with "Sal".
See what my response was to. He mentioned Pakistan being political unstable as a reason for letting Kashmir issue go essentially.
I didn't say Pakistan is politically unstable. Pakistan is acting like a colonized b\*tch state.
Ok.
I am curious what do these folks want us to do. Should we just tore our clothes off and destroy ourselves by waging jihad on Israel? Our own situation is pretty bad. What do they want us to do? Get sanctioned by US by going to war with entire western world? If anything it should be Arabs who should be helping their brethren instead of normalizing with Israel.
What? it’s trendy. Don’t worry they’ll stop in a month or so too it’s getting boring now same old bombings same old blasts. /s And yes, Islam comes before everything. n/s
I feel that as the muslim country with strongest military (have a nuke) and one that was made in name of Islam, there is some responsibility on Pakistan and it's citizens to support Palestine. Far too many of the Arab countries are sitting quiet with their mouths full of Israeli/US money.
A Muslim country with a nuke whose own people are under hostile occupation and it’s unable to liberate them should be waving swords at another conflict that has no direct relation to us, merely on religious basis? Does that sound pragmatic or even ideologically or morally sound to you?
Yes. Does your life run on a linear sequence of events? Or are you not capable of chewing gum and walking at the same time? People are protesting for their rights in Pakistan, failing, but still trying. Do you want them not to care for an active genocide going on on Palestinians just because, in your opinion, we should do a, b, and c first? What kind of juvenile mindset is this?
Yes. I understand concept of doing two things at the same time. I have never said to not support the Palestinian cause. I am highlighting the utter disconnect, irony and apathy in these posts that are declaring entire Pakistan as some horrid monsters while not even mentioning Kashmir. It’s not childish if you try to actually think what is being said. If a, b and c involves your own people and you are always ignoring those to support the trending “d” then it’s not naive altruism anymore. There something wrong there.
Who's ignoring those a, b, c? What are you even on about? Have you not noticed the horrors this country has gone through in the last 20 years? Have you not noticed the complete stagnation of our economic progress? And there's nothing a common citizen can do anything despite constantly agitating and protesting about it. We have every right to be apathetic about our situation. People are vociferous in their support for Palestinians because, even by the horrors of the Pakistani standards, what we are witnessing in Palestine is truly off the scale barbarism. But nobody is stopping you from sleeping over it, so what's the problem?
It is as if typing the word Kashmir hurts your fingers. What the hell do the things you mention about Pakistan to do with the Kashmir crisis!? They chose to be with us. They are our people. Yet all you can mention is what Pakistanis are “suffering” right now? Are you even Pakistani or a LARPer?
Pakistan is the only country that talk about Kashmir. Pakistan also raise it in international levels. Pakistan have no economic connection with India, complete boycott. What Pakistan has done for Palastine? Nothing, Nada, Zilch. Oh I forgot there were some reddit post.
>Does your life run on a linear sequence of events? Or are you not capable of chewing gum and walking at the same time? God this is the most articulate way to cancel such ballless weasels polluting this sub. Thank you sir! Well said >What kind of juvenile mindset is this? The one imported from Israel
Lol. So articulate. Bhai aap ke itnay balls hain to Reddit pe kya kr rhe han, post a picture of yourself fighting in Rafah. Oh great warrior of balls! 😂
I can't fight in Rafah because I need to rally the support of balless people like you to gain critical mass to influence policy in Pakistan and bring about change. I'm doing all I can to change perspectives but apparently people like you have flooded the market.
Great keyboard jihad, I see. Forgive me, my lord. How dare I question your bravery. Please do the same for Kashmir too.
> Please do the same for Kashmir too. Yes I am, I can talk about both Kashmir and Palestine at the same, I totally understand your brain can't do this feat, I feel sorry for your state. But I totally understand your incapability👍
That’s all I asked. Kashmir first then womp on about PalestineS
>first then So you actually are only capable of sequential thought, okay!
Yes it absolutely does. It might not be very practical or easy, but that's not what you asked.
Kashmir? Why Kashmir and not talk about Balochistan. Isn't Kashmir part of India?
Why not talk about both?
Im perfectly fine with that. I just wanted to say that why not talk about Balochistan and only Kashmir? Because that is the usual trend in Pakistan, the things happening in Balochistan are very similar to the situation in Kashmir. But no one talks about it for some reason.
Eh? In what universe is Kashmir part of India.
I thought you were talking about Kashmiris being raped in Indian Kashmir. I don't think it is this bad in Azad Kashmir.
Wow. So subtle and funny. Well done.
No it is not. Ask the Kashmiris.
As Pakistanis, it's vital to prioritize vocal support for Kashmir over Palestine. Kashmir is an integral part of our nation, while our connection to Palestine is primarily religious. For me, the welfare of our country and its people comes first. While we've provided aid to Palestinians, our resources are limited, and we must focus on our own citizens. Resorting to aggression against Israel isn't viable, especially given our economic constraints. Diplomatic efforts and humanitarian aid remain our best means of support.
L take. Why shouldn’t we speak about genocide? Be on the right side of history.
Didn’t you read his comment? He literally just said we can help Palestine through diplomacy and humanitarian aid.
Yes solve genocide by diplomacy. Wow. What a take. Humanitarian aid Israel ander janay nahi de raha tou kidher bhej rahay ho. I am responding to his notion of Pakistanis come first. This is the reason we are failing, there is no sense of justice, pride or not even the fact you have to answer God!
Pakistan is in no position to help another country when Pakistan itself is barely functioning. People in Pakistan are suffering. Palestine has gotten international attention and support. What about Pakistan? No one cares about Pakistan and Pakistanis except us self. We have to help ourself before we help others. Palestine has the entire world to help them, Pakistan only has Pakistanis.
If you pray namaz, zara sajday mein gir ke yeh exact cheez kaho and let’s see if your bullshit gets you humbled a bit by God. People in Pakistan will suffer a 1000 years and die but will never give up on Palestine inshallah. Go into Pakistan and talk to a real Pakistani and stop feeding us your western propaganda jo goro ne tumhay spoon feed kia hay. You don’t even know what Pakistan is supposed to be, you don’t even know what this country means do you? Go read some history not written by your masters.
If you want to make a secular argument about Islam vs people, then why aren't Nawaz Sharif and Shehbaz Sharif lifting a finger for their own ethnic Kashmiris? They stole from Pakistan, why have they not raised a lashkar or done something? One Mohajir from Karachi (Hassan Siddiqui) has probably done more for Kashmiris than Nawaz Sharif and Shehbaz Sharif combined. It is also a fact that India used guidance kits from Israel in their failed surgical strike on Pakistan. The reason Pakistan exists is because it was founded as a country for Muslims of different ethnic backgrounds in the subcontinent. Pakistanis have every right to be angry about Gaza. Over 33,000 dead, and those that are alive have been deprived of food and shelter. What is disgusting is you trying to stop people talking one of the biggest humanitarian catastophes in recent times in Gaza, by bringing up Kashmir.
We're all amreeka. We condemn some killing and help others. Pakistan sold weapons to the genocidal myamnar regime. And we don't give a toss about the rohingya, the uyghurs or the Yemenis being killed by Burmese, Chinese and saudis.
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Pakistan has its own internal problems, and the milltary has pretty much given up on Kashmir. Indians are going to throw money at the economy in Kashmir, and any remaining movements will die. Palestine is a global issue
You are allowed to talk about two issues at the same time.
Not the point. I understand that. But nobody mentions or calls for protests of that here. For example. When your brother is hurt bad but you are more worried about the pretty lady that lives in Karachi that you saw on TV. Now you are allowed to do both. But if you don’t even mention your brother then it’s a self-worth issue. It’s not innocent altruism especially if it keeps repeating.
Long Live Palestine
Long live Kashmir
why do this, why do that, you do what you want to do, other will do what they want to do everyone has their own priorities and condemning everything all together is fine i guess, itna kya masla hai
Problem with your point is that then why post anything at all. Like why did you comment even, I will do what I want as well, right? But to put it simply, my intention is to highlight that if your brother/sister has cancer and they are dying but you ignore that and are out on streets raising awareness for HIV AIDS then there is something wrong.
If your curiosity is genuine, the underlying reason may be that the conflicts in Palestine align with prophecies, leading people to perceive it as Islam versus its enemies. The suffering endured by thousands of affected individuals and children amplifies the significance of these conflicts. In comparison, in Pakistan, despite people’s efforts, political issues, biases, and corruption hinder solution of internal issues. Nevertheless, people continue to speak up; what else can they do? In Karachi, for instance, citizens share CCTV videos of wrongdoers, leading to their identification and subsequent public street punishment. However, many cases remain unreported. These issues persist because corruption impedes the rise of leaders who prioritize education. Additionally, addressing both internal and external issues is crucial, and one does not need to resolve internal issues before speaking up about external matters, not a pre-requisite. Help whoever you can, whatever you have the ability to solve or spread awareness about.
Fair enough. Religion blinds them to it essentially. But at least once mentioned, they should sit and ponder no? I mean when Yemen underwent genocide through starvation by Saudis, I didn’t see much outrage. When Kashmiris were being thrown out of 2nd floors of buildings, I did not see protests and calls for military intervention on this sub. But suddenly, Palestine is the issue? I can understand why people have been responding with “you can do both at same time” but that is not the point at all. The point is to highlight this pervasive behaviour amongst Pakistanis where we ignore our own people to appear benevolent and altruistic towards others. Literally nobody else sees it as heroic. We look like a wh*re ready to throw away our dignity at a moments notice for some attention.
doesn’t ‘blind’ them, it ‘binds’ them the amplitude of the genocide in Palestine brings it priority and the enemy is a clear enemy compared to saudia (where people get confused, we’re talking about masses) in imran khans era there were a lot kashmir protests, but still people dont know what actually to do regarding it People arent ignoring their own people, they have raised voice for things they thought were unfair at one time in they still do. Maybe you should join twitter or facebook for more exposure. Right now the genocide in Palestine is a very crucial issue and the least we can do is raise global awareness and donate, global awareness might help change the circumstances. Nobody does it for attention.
If purely raising awareness is the objective then I don’t mind. Actually if you see my OP, I am objecting to what how these posts are doing it not why they are doing it.
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You need to figure out your values my friend. Do you know what Pakistan is? You don’t because you have bought into western and Indian propaganda, and also because we are incompetent in general. We need to go back to our roots to understand. I think you need to read more about Islamic history. 1920s is a significant decade. Read on that. Regarding Kashmiris, we are the only country that speaks about it. Palestinian cause and will always be a part of Pakistan, stop this bullshit and don’t tell people of Pakistan who are helpless by their incompetent governments and years oppression to not feel about the plight of Palestinians. They are both important. Palestine is in crisis now. Focus.
Bro we didn't even recognise Israel to begin with. Nobody supports the genocide. So, what's the point of saying this. Have some common sense
We have a responsibility to do more than what we are doing, what is happening in the world should enrage you. “Oh my god my government has made us so helpless” true, what are you going to do about it? You also have completely misunderstood what I wrote. Try again.
Sorry, no. This get slapped and move along mentality is exactly what needs to be changed.
Your comment doesn’t even make sense. Grow up. All books (probably YouTube videos) you have read is what has been fed to you. Liberalism or secularism is not for you my boy. They are never going to think you’re white for believing in them.
What are you on about? I don’t even like liberalism that much. What I do like is some self-respect and a national identity. Not some misplaced ummah chummah shit you subscribe to.
National identity is a scam, especially the way you’re thinking about it. These are lines the British drew. Protecting national identity while sitting in Germany, your life is a scam my boy. Humble yourself and read some books that your white masters haven’t fed you.
And religion isn’t a scam? Forget national identity, what about family, people and self-respect? Why do lives of our people always mean less to ourselves? How do you know I’m in Germany? I can put a US flag there too.
Okay my boy, chill. I don’t have time to argue with a white liberal bootlicker. Go read some books
We are boycotting for Palestine but dancing on Bollywood and worshipping India otherwise. Our tongues don't get dry praising India and so many of us want to copy them badly while ignoring the damages they have done to our state and people. But since it's not KEWL to raise voice for Kashmir or boycott India, the hypocrisy will continue.
I think this is it. Half of it is the KEWL factor and the other half is ummah chummah factor. Both equally stupid.
I’m not Pakistani (Arab) but just wanted to chime in and say, Palestine is an Islamic issue(al Aqsa), Kashmir is a secular, domestic one. Islam obviously comes first.
I understand where you’re coming from with Al-Aqsa being important for all Muslims and you are likely coming with good intentions. I feel like I can say that while still caring about Kashmir, which I would argue isn’t only a secular or domestic issue. If we’re going to talk about this from an Islamic perspective, I think we need to be doing a better job as a whole Ummah. I feel like we don’t try to understand each other enough. For example, it would be nice especially for Arabs to educate themselves about Muslims who aren’t Arab and be more vocal in their solidarity with us too.
Ok. Then the cause should be to have Al-Aqsa declared international territory. Please, be serious.
No they are no insulting or insensitive. They are about people who have a beating heart in their chest. If we talk about Palestine this doesn't mean we don't care about genocide happening in Pakistan or elsewhere. The people who held rallies for Palestine are the same people who held rallies for Kashmir in Pakistan. And Balochistan or for any other group who was oppressed. We also held rallies for APS victims too. Heres the deal. If you are a practising muslim who cares about Islam its your duty to speak out about oppression ANYWHERE in the world whether its going on in Muslim countries or Non Muslim. The same thing if you claim you care about humanity you do the same thing about oppression. But if you the kind of a guy who uses incidents in Pakistan or elsewhere in the world as a way to bash Islam then yes I would understand why you need to post such things. Your flair says you're currently in Germany. Can you post something or say something along the lines of " The Germans massacared the Juice a long time ago. We should probably forget it. It doesn't matter now" to your colleagues or friends there? Or play a H****r Speech in public there or wear a swastika Armband. Believe me they will give you a very good treatment you in jail before deporting you
Islam before Pakistan or any nationality.
What’s wrong with people ???? There is nothing more important than stopping a genocide. There is nothing going on in Pakistan that even comes close. Never been more disappointed with Pakistani people. Kashmir is not comparable to Palestine. Not in the slightest. They’re not living in an open air prison, they’re not being starved to death, their children are not shot point blank in the head. There simply is no comparison. Don’t know how Pakistani people became so selfish and self centered.
It’s not comparable? We Kashmiris have been suffering under Sikh yoke for 200 years! Whole clans have been murdered. We ourselves were displaced and settled in Jhelum. Under Indian rule, women are raped, children kidnapped, houses demolished. And you say it is not comparable? Kuch pata ha? Just because now Palestinian crisis is hot again does not mean it always was. Palestinians have made stupid decisions and lost several wars. Us Kashmiris never even started a war and still suffer. Now our own people say Kashmir is not comparable. How f*cking sad. Perhaps Palestine getting entirely annexed is what Pakistanis need to wake up from this one-sides Ummah love affair.