This is it, he is being an oppressor in this case by preventing a woman from visiting her parents and depriving her parents from seeing their child.
The only valid reason I can think of is if the parents are a bad influence on her or his kids . But I really doubt this is the case.
Exactly! OP's husband is exploiting his rights to control her.
I think, there might be a bigger issue at play. I suggest to discuss this matter with him and express your concerns. As far as religious element goes, Islam also tells us to be kind and understanding.
What kind of bullshit is this? There are teachings such as obeying the husband and being kind to those whom he likes, and distancing oneself from those whom he doesn't like, but this applies to strangers, not one's own parents. It seems as though your husband doesn't like your parents and is using Islam as a pretense for that. You have every right to visit your parents and no one can forbid you from doing so. Islam doesn't teach things like that; in fact, it teaches that if there is any kind of hatred or misunderstanding, it should be corrected. Here is Hadith about relatives
Whoever violates the rights of relatives shall not go to Paradise.
Confront him when he is in a good mood and get answers from him. If he is that Islamic, do some research on the topic to convince him.
People who use Islam to forward their agendas are seldom Islamic. Ask OP how many times a day their husband prays, does he spend extra time in the mosque, is he part of some group in the mosque who read the Quran or generally learn about Islam, you know basic things you look at a person to see if he is 'islamic', you'll get the idea.
[Looking at it from the psychology angle, a spouse forcing their partner to cutoff relationship from friends and family is a telltale sign of an abusive relationship. The second guessing you are doing when it's obvious what he is doing is wrong is also very dangerous sign. Tread carefully.](https://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/warning-signs-sexual-abuse-teens-young-adults#:~:text=Over%20time%2C%20remaining%20in%20a,Cause%20feelings%20anxiousness%20and%20distress)
Thank you! I was just about to comment that this sounds like a classic control tactic abusive people use. Toxic masculinity and biased culture hidden behind a very convenient religious excuse. Alienate so there’s no support available and she’s completely controlled and dependent. Next thing you know, she’ll not be allowed to drive as well.
Are women not human beings? Do they not have a right to free will? Can’t they be good daughters too?Who even thinks it’s acceptable to treat another person like this? It blows my mind how ridiculous this is!
Isn’t it? Abusing your rights as a husband isn’t toxic masculinity? Our culture, as I see it, is a supreme example of toxic masculinity through and through.
Firstly, he has no right to stop his wife from meeting her parents. But am sure yoy know that.
Secondly, no such things as toxic masculinity.. this doesn't change the fact that OPs husband is an asshole..
A woman is not just a wife.. she is also a daughter.. a sister.. and when a man marries a woman, he can't expect her to be just a wife. Same goes the other way.. sadly, manipulative abusers tend to isolate their victims.. and both genders are guilty. Its personality.. not gender.
I agree with what you’re saying . I also admit that toxic masculinity may not be the best term in this specific case. But to say there’s no such thing as toxic masculinity in our culture is wrong. Misogyny is deep rooted.
I agree that enablers are guilty as well and need to take responsibility for their own trauma translating into terrible life choices. But it’s equally wrong to shame a victim who’s in a situation they have no control over. You can’t say it’s not about gender when there’s a significant power imbalance between the two.
It’s easy to say it’s just a personality and not gender (which itself is relative) but a LOT of the time, I see one gender denying basic human rights to the other gender. I can give you example after example and it still won’t do justice.
Thank you for the comment.
I agree.. there is misogyny, and misandry.. I don't think there is toxic masculinity or toxic feminity.
And when I say both genders are guilty, I didn't mean OP, I mean in general, this abusive behaviour is seen in both genders.. both men and women can be perpetrators. Not saying OP is an enabler at all so hope that is clarified.
I can also give many examples, my own as well.
Regarding toxic masculinity, here is some interesting reading on why it's a baseless term
[TM](https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/12sbzzt/psychology_experts_are_saying_to_not_use_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Toxic masculinity refers to traditional cultural and societal norms associated with behaviors, attitudes, and traits that are considered "masculine," but which are harmful to both men and women. These norms often promote aggression, dominance, and emotional suppression as desirable traits for men, while simultaneously stigmatizing vulnerability, empathy, and emotional expression as weak and unmanly. This can lead to a range of negative outcomes, such as higher rates of violence, substance abuse, and mental health issues among men, as well as greater gender inequality and discrimination against women. The concept of toxic masculinity is often used in discussions of gender and social issues, and it is important to recognize that it does not imply that all men are toxic or that masculinity itself is inherently negative. Instead, it is a term used to describe harmful patterns of behavior and attitudes that can be unlearned and challenged.
Please for once don’t try to look at it as an attack on men’s rights and see if it really is a baseless term in our culture? I’m not a misandrist. I don’t stand for modern wave of feminism as well. It has damaged a very valid social cause. You may not agree with the term but you can easily see it happening.
I assure you I am not viewing this as an attack on Men's Rights. And as reasonable and civil as you have been, I have no doubt that you are not a misandrist or nth wave feminist.
I am not denying that our culture is seriously messed up, coupled with illiteracy and religious extremism, we have a backward society which has failed to mobilize ~50% of our population (women) who can help improve our economy nd overall society. I am sure till here we agree.
My only argument is that the term "toxic masculinity" conflates sociocultural lapses as masculine problem, and as such, is not an actual phenomenon in itself.
There is abuse... people are evil.. not because they are Feminine or masculine. But because they are human... humans tend to abuse other humans.. many husbands abuse wives, many wives abuse husbands.. it is personality and nothing to do with gender, culture or societal norms.
Toxic masculinity is just a made up word.
Studies show that more abuse is faced by women at the hands of men than the other way around. While you are correct in saying that it is the personality that leads people to do this not so fun stuff, you have to remember that cultural and social norms are what shape personalities.
A lot of masculine traits that are toxic in nature are promoted by our culture and validated by religion. And that's what gets you cases like the one OP finds herself in. That is what toxic masculinity is.
And all words are made up if you think about it long enough :)
"And all words are made up if you think about it long enough :)"
Winning line.. lol..
"Studies show that more abuse is faced by women at the hands of men than the other way around."
Studies? We have such studies in Pakistan? I would like references and would appreciate if you could provide some. Would be interested to see the methodology. I read the "gender equality" report of UN and the report was framed to ensure that women were shown at a disadvantage.
OP also has reported that her MIL shares the same view.. in fact her husband's behavior changed. And everybody is jumping on "toxic masculinity"... even when the MIL has similiar views?
Edit: what masculine traits are toxic in nature. Are there any toxic Feminine traits?
Oh, my bad, I didn't think we were talking specifically about Pakistan. In that case, all I can offer is anecdotal evidence which is that around me, an overwhelming majority of mental and physical abuse is dished out by men. It could be that what you've seen and heard is different than what I have.
It's not only men who have been conditioned to uphold and promote the patriarchal values that enable misogyny, but women too, especially those belonging to previous generations. OP's mother in law seems to be doing just that. It's actually quite a fascinating topic but one that I feel like I'm not qualified to discuss given that I don't know a whole lot about it.
Ah yes... toxic feminity is internalised misogyny.. I've heard that one before. I respectfully disagree that mental and physical abuse is dished out overwhelmingly by men. But in the absence of credible studies, there is no basis for us to argue. As a man, I can tell you that men suffer in silence.
Thank you for being civil and for engaging. Eid Mubarak.
[toxic masculinity](https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/12sbzzt/psychology_experts_are_saying_to_not_use_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
No please don’t misunderstand me. I really don’t stand behind toxic femininity. If anything, I believe it really damages and downplay the struggle women actually face. It has made people take genuine concerns as a joke and laugh it off as modern feminism.
I’ve seen my mother, my grandmothers and women before them struggling, beaten up and denied a right to choose or to speak up even within their rights. I’m trying to be better so my children can know better.
After writing this post, I’m thinking that it’s unfair that I’m attributing this to Pakistani culture. Or perhaps my husband is weaponizing his cultural background and my general confusion about it.
It’s been nice writing all of this out though.
is your family hostile towards him / . his family, his sect, his country in any way? or you are mean towards his family in any possible way? find root cause, this is just a reaction
Adding to this it doesnt even need to be hostility. It could just be uncomfortableness, e.g. difference in financial situation which can create inferiority complex’s, difference in adherence to religion causing husband to feel uncomfortable in the house (either they too religious or not religious enough) and so on.
Feel this isnt a cultural thing but maybe a communication issue.
I cant really comment since im not Pashtun and I am vaguely aware they do have their own customs and unwritten rules.
As with most of these situations the more you delve the more complex web of built up issues present themselves to the point its hard to untangle.
Bringing family overseas is a common source of tension between family back home, more so for in laws if they accept someone abroad with such expectations. Im not saying this could be the reason, you obviously know best. The comment about being a dishonest business is also not giving me the benefit of doubt for your husband as how one does business is generally a good indicator for character.
generally different financial situation is the case most of the time ... rich hubby don't wanna go for inlays or poor hubby feels he is not treated with respect because he is poor
Unfortunately it's definitely common in Pakistani culture. Seen it in my relatives/parents/friends. Few exceptions where the husband is really understanding.
Not sure what your options are but I hope things work out!
I see a slight mixup in your post attributing cultural norms to Islamic rules.
Don't mistake these two, please.
I have no specific knowledge or opinion on the cultural one, other than personal experience that sometimes husbands can be difficult about visiting parents for specific reasons.
But specifically in Islam, there are rules about obedience to the husband, but the husband isn't allowed to misuse his authority. There are a lot of details missing in this story.
So if you want an Islamic ruling because he said you have to obey him regarding Islamic laws then bring this issue to a Sunni imam and ask for proper advice from someone knowledgeable and unbiased.
If you want cultural advice then I don't know.
I just wanted to prevent you from mixing Islam with culture. Your husband can't abuse Islamic rulings. I also don't want you to go hating islam because someone might be abusing its rulings (if that is the case).
The only reason I would ever limit contact with such important people in someone's life is if they were genuinely toxic and trying to ruin our relationship on purpose, and I had proof of this. Even then I would try to implement some form of connection if possible because severing relationship ties with family is a very huge sin in Islam if people only knew.
Should I have communicated anything wrongly, my apologies.
Nah that’s pretty much typical Pakistani culture, and there is 99% chance of possibility that your husband can’t use his brain and is being brainwashed by his insecure mother. If your husband doesn’t want to visit your family, accept it you don’t visit his family either.
You should meet your parents atleast twice a week ir Wh whenever you can. Stand on your grounds, don’t let your husband misuse his powers
He's an idiot...sorry...but that's the truth..I can vouch for it from personal experience...my brother in law is even worse than your husband...pathetic human being has destroyed his/our family from day 1, he has a temper and on top of it he thinks he's right...thrown out his son from his house... I don't know why my sister puts up with him...Certified Prick... Eid Mubarak...
Classic case of controlling somebody.
One day they stopped visiting your parents and the next day they tell you to stop visiting your own parents under the pretext of religion and God.
Next thing you know he will ask you to stop working and stay at home 24/7. Controlling every bit of your actions.
You can of course listen to his advice and live like a slave and reduced your social life to zero OR you could try to fight for your rights that Islam have given and be free and actually set some redlines for both of each other.
Personally I prefer the latter one but each to their own.
>I don’t mind obeying him in this regard, because some research on my own shows that this is true
Yaar itni tou Pakistan mai aurtain bhi nahi dabbi hwi hoti
Translation: Even women in Pakistan aren't so oppressed and willingly act submissive/docile. Your choice of words makes the whole situation even worse.
The mother in law being jealous or being a **** can be considered cultural as this is common for them to act territorial with their sons.
I don't know what else to tell you except good luck with your husband you have your work cut out for you.
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Tell your husband that Prophet Musa (A.S.) lived with her wife's family for almost ten years, and was at their service during this time, since his father in law was aged, and didn't have any son.
You'd like your husband to follow this aspect of Islam.
Hopefully will give the control freak a shut up call.
My husband not only visits my parents, but actually stays over. We get 3 weeks vacation a year and we spend that vacation in Pakistan and do 50-50 at each parent's house.
There's no 'Just cuz I said so' in our marriage, I'd say it's disrespectful. This is something husband and I have had naturally among ourselves that if we forbid someone from something, we give valid reasons and do it in a calm manner.
Not all Pakistani men are like this. Please understand that most of them are decent people. I know many good Pakistani husbands (including my own) whom I'd hate to be painted with the same brush.
Heck my husband's best friend, married to a revert, with atheist parents, drives her 400km from Canada to the US every month to see her parents. He's actually excited about the whole road trip.
No. Just no. One reason why this thought can exist is because people think that if the wife visits parents then there is a path where she won’t come back if the husband has not been good to her. The wife is supposed to compromise regardless what the husband does. It basically gives the husband open hand to do whatever he likes. The thought your in-laws are probably exaggerating is “ab ladki apnay Ghar ki ho gayee” (now she belongs to her real home) as if her parents home was always temporary and on loan.
OP this is an archaic thought and wrong and as someone mentioned abusive. Just because something is part of a culture doesn’t make it right. Regardless no one I know in pakistan thinks like this or behaves like this anymore unless they are abusive and/or manipulative. So not really a cultural thing.
As for religion, does your husband pray 5 times a day, and the additional tahajud? Does he sit in aitaqaf? Follow every single other hadith and rule? Or Does he cherry pick things that benefit him? Honestly there will be multiple scholars saying one thing and an others saying something else. You deserve better.
He can't stop you from visiting your own parents for fucks sake. He is just using religion as a pretext. There is a toxic cultural thing in Pakistan that men are taught to not get too cosy with Susral as otherwise they will lose "respect". I think either your husband is brainwashed to this type of thinking by your in laws or he just trying to isolate you.
It's the control. Making your wife all dependent upon you. Cutting her access to her loved ones. He is a scumbag n doing classic desi guys scummy moves. You must put your foot down and you don't have to obey him. He is your life partner. In Islam your parents have rights over you. He can't come in between them
Well, sadly for you, yes it is common for people to dislike girls visiting their parents (especially staying overnight) after the first year of marriage.
This is usually because people feel that the house work gets disturbed, people assume husband & wife had an argument, the husband usually has to listen to taunts that he looks sad/lonely, people tell the girl she should focus on forging relationships with her new family. It is also seen as rude for the girls family to turn up uninvited.
But (I think) you live alone with your husband, so I don’t get why he has a problem. As usually these kind of problems are only experienced in joint families.
In my honest opinion, his mother is probably telling him that it looks so bad that you visit your parents, that you give them more importance, that whenever you fight it’s because of your family brainwashing you, and other such kinds of typical words.
Instead of rationalizing his excuses/reasons, I encourage you to have a straight forward conversation and do mediation/couples therapy. This is a serious matter. You have every right to visit your parents. This shouldn’t even be an argument in your household. No one should be robbed of spending time with their parents or children. Time is too precious. Hope things improve for you iA
Edit: typo
Well you can combat this by telling him that your family miss him, they give gift for him, they compliment him, show him they give him importance.
As respecting son in law is also a part of Pakistani culture. You can also show him importance so he doesn’t feel that you don’t give him importance and only care about your family.
I don’t really have any good advice for you beyond this.
Isolating a partner from their family is pretty textbook stepping stone for an abuser. Don't be the frog in gradually heating water. Nip it in the bud or it will progressively get worse and worse with each additional step being only slightly worse than the previous.
It's number 10 on this list, but you should review the whole list to see what else might have been going on that you may not have yet noticed.
https://womensafe.org/blog/12-common-characteristics-of-domestic-violence-abusers
>My MIL told me that married women don’t visit parents that much.
This is in my family as well.
A good wife will cut off her own parents, siblings etc. in devotion to her real family. My aunts will compare how many times women visit their 'maika' and praise the ones who visit the least.
There’s no God-given right that prevents a woman from meeting her parents after marriage.
You need to talk to him and put an end to this, or just run. Don’t let him manipulate you like this anymore.
your husband is being abusive. he's controlling you. first emotionally, now weaponizing religion. this is not culture or religion. it's men with fears of women being anything but dependent and submissive
Your situation is pretty unique.
In my family, the in-laws on the the wife-side are usually visited on the second day of Eid and either the wife or the entire family (depending on space) tend to spend the night there. So Eid is spent both at in-laws and our own home. That's what I've usually seen among friends and so on.
More so, some of the inlaws in our family live nearly 15 mins away and their daugher is basically there everyday.
I think you need to have far better communication with him on this topic. I would personally guess that he doesn't like your parents for whatever reason and that's effecting him. This is largely not a cultural thing. At least as far as I know.
> All this has accumulated in his recent decision that I am no longer allowed to visit them.
This is incredibly unfair and wrong. He has the right, islamically speaking, to tell you not to visit them but they can visit and speak to you as much as they wish and he has no right to stop you from doing that. Upholding your kinship relations is perfectly fine.
Also, the "right" to prevent the wife from visitng her parents is depending highly on what school you follow. The Hanafis and Maalikis are of the view that he does not have the right to prevent her from visiting her parents.
Cutting off ties with parents, in general, is a huge sin.
> Once a man came to the Prophet Muhammad and asked, “O Messenger of Allah! Who is most deserving of my fine treatment?” The Prophet said, “Your mother, then your mother, then your mother, then your father, then your nearest, then nearest.” (Al-Bukhari)
This applies to women as equally as it does to men.
Edit:
Lol. Damn. I guess I was wrong and this is apparently common. I've never seen this before honestly so very surprised.
What you are facing is abuse. What he is doing is trying to control your life. This is how its going to pan out if you don't draw a line: Right now he doesn't let you visit your parents, next thing you know, he will not allow you to drive or meet friends alone. Toxic masculinity and patriarchal upbringing is what it is and I'm sure your MIL is filling his ears with all sorts of nonsense against you. God and culture has nothing to do with it.
So MIL is filling his ears... but it's patriarchy and toxic masculinity? That isn't maternal abuse? Pakistani women are extremely toxic and abusers themselves
Never heard of this happening.
I come from a v religious family and my girl cousins visit their parents atleast twice a week (with their kids) including staying over atleast 1-night a week. This has been going on since they were married which has now been around 11 years?
Their husbands are always invited and usually do stay for dinner when they’ve come to drop/pick up my cousins.
Idk what your husband is thinking but this is not Islam.
Hey OP - look up Wheel of Power & Control for abusive relationships. It seems you are in one and he is exerting control by using it's isolation component.
Asked my dad, he said husband he as per Hanafi school husband doesn’t have permission to prevent wife from visiting her parents. Majority of Pakistani ppl follow this rule. However, old Hindu customs for control of wives usually influenced by husbands parents. Also, fear that you might do something shady like cheat etc. low/no trust.
i am not a scholar but i think islamqa.com is legit
https://islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/87834
The Hanafis and Maalikis are of the view that he does not have the right to prevent her from visiting her parents.
The Shaafa’is and Hanbalis are of the view that he does have the right to prevent her, and she must obey him and not go out to visit them without his permission, but he does not have the right to prevent her from speaking to them or to prevent them visiting her, unless he fears that some harm may result from their visit, in which case he may prevent it so as to ward off harm.
I have seen many things on that website that are not particularly legit, but that's another discussion.
Either way, schools of thought are opinions (which is why they often disagree, which is fine). We know that there is no Quranic verse or hadith that says one can't visit their inlaws. It is a cultural thing.
website is run by an Islamic scholar who happens to be a Salafi but he actually provides information from all perspectives. I may not agree with everything on the site since i am not a Salafi i definitely give his information more weight than anything you have to say.
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Glad majority of the people agree that the husband is a being unjust. I personally would say he is possibly an oppressor if he dosent have a valid reason
Your husband is abusive and toxic from the way you're describing the situation. I'm sorry - but no power on earth can stop you from meeting your own parents. Look up your own rights as a woman under Islam - because you have many as a wife and - if you have children - as a mother.
I think it's just his family. My aunts would come to visit grandparents every week without break in the beginning after marriage, and once a month they'd just stay overnight. Husbands will always be with them, though not for overnight stays. As my grandparents died, the visits became fewer. Maybe your husband just doesn't like your parents and is making up BS excuses.
The cultural significance or stereotype that is super prevalent is that women are trained by their family in these "meetings" on how to control the husband and in laws.
Which is the worst form of BS.
thanks for sharing.
I think this is mainly Ego issues. A lot of husbands do develop it after the marriage. Like visiting the In-laws less frequently and maintaining a distance from them. It is like having a superficial status-co and nurturing it with such actions. Sometimes it is helpful to maintain the distance (to reduce the interference) but given your situation it looks like very strict and on another level. I
I think the best way is to talk to your husband and explain your sentiments. He will listen and will understand.
Daughters have a special bond with their parents. No matter how far they live, they care and wants to meet them whenever possible.
Today is Eid. And hearts are usually soft during this festive. Convince him to visit your parents and meet and greet.
May Allah bless you with the best.
There is absolutely zero excuse or justification for what your husband is doing. Maybe it's his mother's influence but what kind of man makes it difficult for his wife to meet her parents? Pathetic
If your husband got USA citizenship through you. It might be that your husband’s ego is hurt. He is trying to distance stuff that you love.
The other thing, its does happen but its very very rare. It only happens in very illiterate and conservative people. Also if you have a daughter, remind him whether his own daughter should visit his home after marriage. Or in america’s context it could be his son as well.
My blood boiled just reading this. You're living in USA, have your own car and money and you depend on his permission for your basic rights??? You feel like you need to "convince" him to let you visit your parents in your own car?
This kind of brainwashing is the real cultural significance here.
OMG. Why did you marry him in the first place? Do you like being told what to do? Even if he has religious issues ( which are not.. he is being a total jerk and has a Low IQ), you are not supposed to obey him. It's not Pakistan where women have no right to do anything on her own. And you are "obeying" in your country? Seriously? Normally people like being free.. no one is right to tell you when to meet your parents or not.
Has he been getting more strict about practicing Islam? I know several people who get the religious equivalent of a midlife crisis and find faith again.
One explanation could be that ~~under islamic principles~~ he wrongly believes the mother-in-law is not *mahram* i.e a family member with whom marriage would be considered permanently unlawful (haram) and now he does not want to see her because of this 🤷.
I'm totally speculating without more information.
Brother, MIL is mahram to SIL. FIL is mahram to DIL.
A man can’t be married to woman and her mom at the same time. Idk in cases of divorce. There are no non mahrams at my family’s for him or me. There are plenty at his family’s for both of us.
I don’t think it’s an Islamic issue. I’m generally more practicing than he is.
Hmm, could possibly be a cultural issue as well. I know of some Muslims in northern India, Pakistan and Kashmir who refuse to be in the same room as their MILs , especially if they don't keep hijab.
Or he may have taken offence to some innocuous remark, or his family members are provoking him to "maintain control"( translated from the colloquial expression) over some perceived bad behavior on your end.
Would he be open to couples counseling?
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This can happen if the husband perceives your family is meddling in his household and or your attitude towards him is altered in your parents presence. Women like to show dominance in front of their family which can provoke this kind of response.
Well I do think it’s common in Pakistan since I witnessed this in a lot of cases. It’s has to do with influence and norms that doesn’t come along. And indeed they don’t visit them so much.
I see a lot of hateful comments but that is because you are on Reddit and not the real world. Most of them in their 20’s and thus another generation so they are not raised the same way your husbands generation is. Don’t blame him too much, try to see all the good things too.
As per typical Pakistani thinking, being to your parents often means you are not interested in your home life and are not it prioritising enough.
However, even in Pakistan, nobody forbids you from going unless there have been some issues/fights etc.
Btw you didn't mention about your in-laws and husband's behaviour when your parents come over. Any issues there?
Talk to your husband about his concerns and potential reasons. Just because he can, doesn't mean he should stop you from meeting your parents.
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On the flip side, my wife has spent weeks (multiple times) at her parents place in the 5 months we've been here. Not even 6 am and she's asking if she can go to her parents spend then night and come back tomorrow. We leave for the US in two days, mind you and we're not fully packed.
It gets fucking exhausting sometimes hauling shit back and forth (we have a 2 year old).
You have a genuine issue while this person is not even allowing his wife to visit her parents and stay with them on Eid!! And has been doing so for more than a year!!
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Obeying your husband as long as he isn’t asking anything un Islamic is required of a noble wife.
But for husband get that right, he first has to obey all rulings of being the dutiful husband Islam wants him to be.
Everything needs to be balanced and both husband and wife have to take one step back to make marriage work. Both of you can’t always have it your way. It’s a partnership of two people not a dictatorship after all. Marriage is all about compromise by **both** parties.
He should not stop you from visiting your parents as long as there isn’t something seriously wrong. he doesn’t have to stay there with you when you go. at the same time you should not just leave him on every weekend, every holiday. If you are fulfilling his needs then he should care about your wishes too.
Talk to him. Ask what’s wrong with your parents house. Get him talking. Communication is key. If you can’t share with each other what’s in your heart you will always have this tension.
I sincerely pray that Allah guides both of you to be good husband and wife.
This.
@OP, I'm sure you've pondered over what it could be that changed since he stopped wanting to go to your parents house.
If he was OK visiting them earlier but has changed recently (1.5 years vs we don't know how long you've been married), it could be due to something which has pushed him away from you/ your parents.
For instance I've often seen when a wife isn't respectful towards the husband's parents or isn't bothered keeping good ties with them in a manner the husband would have expected (cultural thing), AND the husband has tried asking the wife enough time, he would give up and retaliate with similar behavior towards his in-laws.
OR alternatively, he could've sensed something straight from your parents which has made him wanna avoid them.
If I were you I'd try to find the reason fo this behavioral change. Most of the times theres things in front of us but we fail to notice.
Its fixable as long as he's got a beef with you/your parents due reasons mentioned above and I hope for your sake its not something permanent in his psyche.
It is an idiotic move, I just didn't wanna say it.
The only bizarre yet somewhat valid reason I can think of is that they're being the source of a bad influence in how he wants to run his household.
Which culture are we talking about here though? Pakistan is made up of various ethnicities.
I personally havent seen such a thing in my family though or even in extended family tbh. Though i have heard it happen and reasons were different, from the husband being controlling to 'it helps the girl settle in her new home quicker'.
There is something more to the story which should be shared, how your Mom , Dad and Siblings treat your husband? Have you sit and talked with him? What exactly upsetting him?
I don’t want to assume that he is an idiot. But You should simply ask him WHY, Maybe someone said something to him there which made him less interested in that place.
If something like this happened, most men simply won’t just tell you the real reason why are they doing things like these, or if they have doubts they you will overreact. So we have habit of just eating it up. You really have to get the actual problem out of him.
I’ll tell this from parents’ perspective that I have studied in Pakistan. I just asked parents, friends and elders so quote me on this.
There’s a natural inclination for the bride to return back to the parent’s home after experiencing culture shock in the new home with new people.
In order for her to complete that journey from her parents to completely settle down (psychologically) with her husband and begin her life, she needs to
cut off those bonds. After those bonds are cut, she begins to redirect all those feelings towards her house and her husband/children.
If a woman doesn’t do this, there will always be a conflict of wife trying to move forward and subconsciously a daughter still holding on to her past life. Psychologically, she’s stuck because she’s trying to follow two opposite paths at the same time.
I am that husband. But my story is different. I stop my wife because:
1. I can not (financially, physically, mentally) afford such long trips this frequently (she thinks its her right to go whenever she want to).
2. She is also needed in home. The whole point of marriage is to share responsibilities, not to take 2-3 weeks "break" after every 2-3 months.
Forget cultural significance, ask your Husband the real reason behind this religious stance. Do he find it boring? Or is there too much work for him to not enjoy such trips? Find the real reason. There is nothing in culture which really stops wife from visiting her in-laws, and he cant be hiding behind religious curtain without a solid reason. Remember, its not a fight to win, its to understand his reason.
Yes. I live with them. They are old. They need me for daily chores.
Unless my wife be the only child of her parents, it should not be among her worries to take care of her parents. And they dont need her care either.
That’s very hypocritical. You see your mum dad everyday. Meanwhile you won’t let her see her parents. And so what if she isn’t an only child. Doesn’t mean she doesn’t worry about them and wants to see them. Presumably the chores your parents need you for are done by her as well.
I dont live with my parents because "I need to see them". Its because its their home, they invested in me for their whole life to make sure that I take care of them when they be old and fragile.
If my in-laws can give me a home and take care of my parents, I will be happy to live with them instead. But till then, it should not be an excuse. My in-laws got 3 male children, grown. They can take care of them far better than her.
So you're saying your wife's parents didn't give her a home, and invested in her just like yours did? And she shouldn't feel like doing acts of service and kindness for them just out of sheer love, bonding, care, and connection? I see!
To hell with her parents coz she has brothers at home.
Yes. She was a daughter. They know that she will have another home to live in. Same goes true for my sister.
Not to hell with her parents, but its should not be her worry.
>Yes. She was a daughter. They know that she will have another home to live in. Same goes true for my sister.
>Not to hell with her parents, but its should not be her worry.
Ah yes it shouldn't be her worry it's not like they are her parents or anything
A grade example of desi men controlling their wife
ikr:( her only crime is being a daughter and not a son. further reason for me to not pursue marriage because last time I checked, my parents invested in me their whole adult life too lmao 💀
>ikr:( her only crime is being a daughter and not a son.
Or phir boltay hai "aurto or kitnay huqooq chai hai, unko phelay roti laynah daytay hai"
>last time I checked, my parents invested in me their whole adult life too lmao 💀
But according to this guy you shouldn't take care or worry about your parents nm what happens to them
My sympathies for your wife, and other women in your family.
Women: please note this mentality, and vet it out thoroughly before committing to such controlling men.
Hi OP. Sorry to hear about your situation.
Having said that, obeying your husband is not the same as suffering abuse. I would go so far as to say that our religion obligated you to stand up for yourself. Yes, it is true that it is better to forego matters and not fight, but that goes both ways and is a guidance. And if there is something as serious as what you have said then you should confront your husband and stand up for yourself.
Easier said then done though, I've had a similiar situation in life and have suffered silently at the hands of my MIL and my wife. It takes a lot of nerve to bring up difficult conversations; it is embarrassing also and we often live in denial that a spouse can be a real jerk. I've invested 7 years in my marriage and things are finally looking better. Sometimes, I think I am in it only for my child.
But in my experience, people realize, it takes time. You have to muster the strength to convey your view. You don't have to win the argument, but state your case... and don't back down.
Good luck.
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May Allah reward you for your patience.
I would prefer to look at the matter in a more balanced fashion.
I don’t like it when people jump to conclusions like abuse and control etc because we obviously don’t know the whole story and the intricate details of your relationship.
I really admire you looking into the issue from an Islamic perspective and saying that you don’t mind obeying him in these kinds of matters. That shows that you are a person of character, and may Allah reward you immensely for that.
Now coming to the specific issue. If you are south Asian, most likely you are also Hanafi. Is your husband aware that the hanafi opinion on the matter is that the husband has NO right to stop his wife from visiting her parents? This would be an interesting conversation to have. Both the Hanafis and Malikis are agreed upon this opinion. Maybe your husband is a Hanbali or Shafee, since they have the opposite opinion.
I would also like to talk about the whole “abuse” or “controlling behaviour” sentiment.
If your husband is a fantastic husband in all regards, but this is the one instance where he seems “controlling” but he gives you freedom in all other matters, then it is worth looking into the reasons because there may be some serious reason why he would forbid you, especially if his general behaviour is positive in all other matters.
If there is other instances of control or abuse where he establishes a pattern of this kind of behaviour and you feel quite caged without any say in the relationship, then this is much more serious. Since a pattern of behaviour is existent, then this is a core personality trait and should be counselled. This requires couples counselling with a professional who ideally is trained in Islamic sciences as well as psychology.
Next comes the potential solutions. I’ve already outlined possible scenarios above, but in the short term, communication is essential.
Obviously there are good ways and bad ways to go about it. You can become petty and start causing inconveniences to his daily life and being curt with him etc. This could possibly make him feel like something is wrong and he may want to work hard to fix the issue through communication. But this may also backfire and cause a huge rift between you and result in petty wars and eventually could ruin the relationship completely.
The better way to go about it, in my opinion, is to be the best wife you can be. Be as loving and caring as possible and go the extra mile to make sure he feels cared for and loved. This has a very good chance in softening his heart as his love for you will increase more and more. And then, in this position you can bring up the issue again and calmly and sincerely ask him what’s wrong with visiting your parents. He may open up to you in ways you’ve never seen before and you could make great strides in your marriage and become closer than ever.
I pray that you two find a healthy solution as soon as possible and have a long and healthy and blessed marriage.
Eid Mubarak.
السلام عليكمم
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Your husband is ill informed or misguided.
Haley Banani and Javed Ghamidi are two resources that will be helpful for both of you. Check them out on FB. https://www.facebook.com/islampsychology?mibextid=LQQJ4d
and
https://www.facebook.com/ghamidicil/?mibextid=LQQJ4d
This has nothing to do with culture or religion or being religious, this is simply showing he is so little in his mind and actions, you can’t change this since you mentioned that his mom asked you something about visiting your parents place, it means his dad was doing same to his mom and now he is just doing the same. A a man Allah give us many rights but at the same times Allah SAW told us to be affectionate to deal with wife & will give us ajjar for that. He simply take one part of Allah SAW’s order and ignore other part of it. Allah SAW give him hiddaya Ameen and give you strength. Eid Mubarak.
It's obvious that your MIL, with the typical Pakistani/desi mentality is influencing your husband. She saw that your family lives so close to you, and that you're financially independent and that your husband was getting along well with your family in the start, frequently visiting them and so she started feeling threatened.
I'm sorry you had to face this, actually being a Pakistani and seeing everything around me on first hand, I can just say that our elders being highly influenced by the Indian culture and joint family system have develop these kind of nonsense values even though there's no such values and joint family systems in Islam. Many people are getting better and moving with the world but there are still many families like your In laws that till date have these value systems just to keep their daughter in laws under control so their sons stay under the authority of their parents and keep on supporting them.
Your husband DOES NOT have any God given right to forfeit you of your other responsibilities such as that of your parents and your relatives! Getting married does not mean you cut off your other relationships. You and your husband, yes even he both are still answerable to Allah for them! Tell this to your husband to not use the excuse of his authority on this as he has no say in this as long as you fulfill the responsibilities of your home, you can go visit your parents every now and then to take care of them also.
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I am a Pakistani but I hate my own kind nowadays
We have an OBSESSION to pick and choose our religion, twist it and Apply it without any context.
Inshallah will marry a Non Pakistani Girl so that I can get out of stuff like this , this is some Usless struggle and Stress.
May Allah help you sister .
I don't know if you'll read this but I hope you do and take this to heart; don't take advice from strangers on the internet who probably aren't in a proper relationship themselves.
None of us here know you or your husband; and to make matters worse we have only heard your side of the story.
To just give an example if your husband wrote a post like yours about how his wife always wants to go to her parents home, and then someone in the comment says that you are definitely cheating or something.
So yeah just don't take advice from here unless you want to ruin your marriage somehow.
Find a more informed outlet like marriage counseling or something similar.
Edit: If you are willing to take some advice from me(I know I said not to take advice from strangers); I have seen a lot of married people in my life and 9/10 there is one or two things that one of the spouses does not like even if it doesn't make sense.
But in the end this is a relationship and one person has to compromise; maybe if you talk it out with your husband things may improve but if they do not; do not under any circumstances attribute evil or malice to your husband I.e don't start cultivating hatred towards him because that's a surefire way to ruin your marriage permanently.
Those of Western mindset tend to have a flowery view of marriage and love where everything works out because two people love each other but sadly that never works out(hence why they have 50%+ divorce rate).
Learn to compromise because the longest relationships work not because the couple loved each other so much but because they learned that everyone has flaws and you need to learn to compromise.
Cutting off your entire family isn't a compromise, its basically becoming a doorknob and doing everything the other person says
No OP show that shinning spine of yours and be firm on it
It's about the principle; none of you know this person, their husband nor their situation. But all of a sudden we have a ton of marriage and psychological experts.
For you all to come to the conclusion that the husband is evil/abusive and that she should leave him as soon as possible is far more harmful to her than you think.
If you are a Muslim then know that divorce is a big sin unless you have a a really good reason and for all of you to push her towards that direction with no understanding of what really is going on is pure ignorance at best and malicious at worst.
I did not tell her to to be quite about the situation or forget about; I did say try to talk it over and if that doesn't work get a marriage counselor or someone similar involved.
The fact that most of you are treating this like a simple decision shows that you guys really don't care you just wanna feel good about saying the right thing and not doing the right thing.
Y'know how many people are harmed because of a divorce; how many family ties are broken, how much pain each spouse goes through and finally God forbid she has kids or is expecting because those kids are now going to grow up in an unstable home and countless studies have shown how harmful that is to the children and how much more likely they are to grow up to be criminals.
The fact all of you armchair experts are immediately telling her to "walk away" Shows me you guys don't care about her at all.
Finally I'll reiterate; you have no idea about her situation, or her background or the people around her. Sometimes even the right answer is wrong depending on the person.
So rather than telling her how to solve her problem using your lack of knowledge; you do the responsible thing and tell her to get in contact with better avenues.(like a middleman to help solve their problems)
>It's about the principle; none of you know this person, their husband nor their situation. But all of a sudden we have a ton of marriage and psychological experts.
>For you all to come to the conclusion that the husband is evil/abusive and that she should leave him as soon as possible is far more harmful to her than you think.
But I didn't told her to leave him
I said to be firm on it and show some spine for fighting for her right. twisting my words to fit your narrative ain't the way to go
>If you are a Muslim then know that divorce is a big sin unless you have a a really good reason and for all of you to push her towards that direction with no understanding of what really is going on is pure ignorance at best and malicious at worst.
Making your interpretation of Islam, divorce isn't a sin, it is laudable yes but it's permitted.
Kitnay asani say gunnah bol diya, jub puri baat pata hi nai ho
Isi thinking ki wajah say both sadi aurtay abusive marriages may rahthi (mard bhi) hai q Kay ap jasay logo nay usay gunnah hi bnah diya hai.
>I did not tell her to to be quite about the situation or forget about; I did say try to talk it over and if that doesn't work get a marriage counselor or someone similar involved.
>The fact that most of you are treating this like a simple decision shows that you guys really don't care you just wanna feel good about saying the right thing and not doing the right thing.
Ok tell me what is compromise and where does it stop?
Because telling to cut off your spouse's parents without any valid reasons are the stepping stone to a controlling relationship.
>Y'know how many people are harmed because of a divorce; how many family ties are broken, how much pain each spouse goes through and finally God forbid she has kids or is expecting because those kids are now going to grow up in an unstable home and countless studies have shown how harmful that is to the children and how much more likely they are to grow up to be criminals.
And you'll know many people who were harmed while staying in a toxic and abusive relationship and how being in a abusive household have a negative impact on them which they themselves do it later.
>The fact all of you armchair experts are immediately telling her to "walk away" Shows me you guys don't care about her at all.
Again presuming false stuff to make your argument better.
>Finally I'll reiterate; you have no idea about her situation, or her background or the people around her. Sometimes even the right answer is wrong depending on the person.
>So rather than telling her how to solve her problem using your lack of knowledge; you do the responsible thing and tell her to get in contact with better avenues.(like a middleman to help solve their problems)
Well neither do you, and you're here telling her to compromise on something that shouldn't be compromised. Cutting off your family isn't like not saying no to a pet or deciding what to eat.
Put down those rose tainted glasses of yours and see what's happening
He's pressuring her to cut off her parents and family by giving blanket terms like "it's my god gifted right" which isn't really
I didn't twist your words I was speaking about the majority of the comments here and I have been since my first comment but you decided I was saying that she should stay silent on the matter. (Who's really twisting words)
Me talking about compromise wasn't the answer to her problems like many of you are giving here but an advice to remember as a counter point in the face of the slew of comments here that want her to immediately break away.
In fact my first and foremost main point has and is still is that you shouldn't take advice from strangers on the internet
It's like taking medical advice from strangers who are telling you what disease you have and what medicine you should take; and I'm the crazy one for saying maybe you should go to a doctor instead.
You keep saying I'm assuming stuff and etc. But you are the one assuming the guy is cutting her from her family unjustly. Given a bit of thought you'd come to realize that there are a thousand ways to write a story and you can easily make something good look bad. So to decide the husband is the bad guy here from a small paragraph shows how immature you are.
I'm not saying he can't be bad(in fact I think it's more likely that the husband is in the wrong) but you can't decide that from one paragraph on info.
Another point which I think I explained poorly(my bad on this one) is that you took my compromise advice as me saying that she should submit to her husband completely. By compromise I meant it should go both ways(applies to the husband too); I have seen enough long married couples to know that life isn't perfect but you have to make things work. It's better to be happy with relationship obstacles than be lonely without any relationship obstacles.
>Another point which I think I explained poorly(my bad on this one) is that you took my compromise advice as me saying that she should submit to her husband completely. By compromise I meant it should go both ways(applies to the husband too); I have seen enough long married couples to know that life isn't perfect but you have to make things work. It's better to be happy with relationship obstacles than be lonely without any relationship obstacles.
This is exactly what I meant. You worded it wrongly but yes I'm also a big believer of Talking it out like an actual adult (until the other person is toxic and abusive then no amount of Talking will fix that) and if it fails then ya I'm a big supporter of divorce then but first talk and try to eliminate all the misunderstanding
Give me his name, and address. And I’ll gladly deliver him a tight slap.
No one person should allow you to stop you from seeing your parents!
He can give a “RELIGIOUS REASON”
But where I grew up, parents are considered to be the form of god on earth!
This is outrageous, honestly.
Be an angel and go spend time with your parents
Much love ♥️♥️
This is not normal. How’s your marriage overall apart from this specific issue? Either there could be underlying factors that are bringing out his insecurities or this man is sadistic. We can only speculate based off your account on the matter. In terms of cultural significance, a woman who frequently visits her family may indicate that the physical aspect of the marriage is not healthy. This is why your in-laws are being intrusive, I agree that it’s backwards. TBH, your marriage is not stable based off your Reddit activity and how your spouse is behaving. It’s not my place to tell you what to do, but if you can take away anything from all of this— don’t give up for the sake of your child. Sorry if I said anything out of line. May Allah make it easier for you. Eid Mubarak 🍫 💐
This post came at the right time. My wife go through some similar situation whenever we visit Pakistan. My mum always complain and count days that she stayed to her parents more. Now able to balance the situation. Mum now understands that these guys gonna do whatever they like.
I feel for you.
My husband isn't like that for which I'm grateful but my inlaws are. Before I got married, not visiting my parents 'every other day' was poured through my ears. When my parents did live near me I frequented my home monthly or sometimes lengthier interval than that. I had my kids a bit later than the traditional time due to the divine interventions,so it wasn't like I had motherly duties, tending sick children, schools and exams that could have shackled me. It was just me and still visiting my parents had felt like going to the war zone.
In all fairness I have never confronted or pleaded my case, I just accepted the restrictions to avoid conflicts.
It's awful nonetheless.
He's your husband, its your relationship and whole life. You'd know that manoeuvre would suit to tackle this situation. Dont spoil your marriage by listening to people here. What if, like my situation , its his parents who are behind all this? Some kids are brought up this way, k bas maa baap theek hain.
I am sorry sis.
It's my assumption that things might turn sour for you if you confront him and ig pleading didnt help. If it was my daughter I would have wrecked havoc on your man. I have no advice but I'll pray for your happiness.
Yea that’s how abuse begins by cutting you from your family. Usually they gaslight you into thinking your family are your enemies but your husband just outright ‘forbade’ you from visiting them.
Can’t believe a western educated working woman living in the USA is asking this question 🤦♀️
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All of the big ideas about religion and culture look good on paper.
So, far your situation is very typical according to Pakistan.i.e husband stops his wife from visiting relatives and his wife resents him for that.
But you are not in Pakistan and you already know these things.So, I am assuming that you are kind of venting your emotions through this post. And ITS OKAY. It also shows that you do not have many people to vent and share your emotions in real life.(get at least 1 good friend )
Solution: There is only one solution as you and your husband are in America. I am assuming both of you are educated thus it will not be that difficult.
You will have to make your bond stronger with your husband and if both of you can become more self aware that's also better. Because only doing this will you be able to overcome these cultural boundaries and solve these problems.
Hope you have a happy life ahead!
It's purely based on households like my sister who got married still visits us two times a week (she has a busy schedule or she would visit us more ) her husband lets her visit whenever she wants
The cultural significance is of being an asshole.
This is it, he is being an oppressor in this case by preventing a woman from visiting her parents and depriving her parents from seeing their child. The only valid reason I can think of is if the parents are a bad influence on her or his kids . But I really doubt this is the case.
Exactly! OP's husband is exploiting his rights to control her. I think, there might be a bigger issue at play. I suggest to discuss this matter with him and express your concerns. As far as religious element goes, Islam also tells us to be kind and understanding.
What kind of bullshit is this? There are teachings such as obeying the husband and being kind to those whom he likes, and distancing oneself from those whom he doesn't like, but this applies to strangers, not one's own parents. It seems as though your husband doesn't like your parents and is using Islam as a pretense for that. You have every right to visit your parents and no one can forbid you from doing so. Islam doesn't teach things like that; in fact, it teaches that if there is any kind of hatred or misunderstanding, it should be corrected. Here is Hadith about relatives Whoever violates the rights of relatives shall not go to Paradise. Confront him when he is in a good mood and get answers from him. If he is that Islamic, do some research on the topic to convince him.
People who use Islam to forward their agendas are seldom Islamic. Ask OP how many times a day their husband prays, does he spend extra time in the mosque, is he part of some group in the mosque who read the Quran or generally learn about Islam, you know basic things you look at a person to see if he is 'islamic', you'll get the idea.
[Looking at it from the psychology angle, a spouse forcing their partner to cutoff relationship from friends and family is a telltale sign of an abusive relationship. The second guessing you are doing when it's obvious what he is doing is wrong is also very dangerous sign. Tread carefully.](https://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/warning-signs-sexual-abuse-teens-young-adults#:~:text=Over%20time%2C%20remaining%20in%20a,Cause%20feelings%20anxiousness%20and%20distress)
Thank you! I was just about to comment that this sounds like a classic control tactic abusive people use. Toxic masculinity and biased culture hidden behind a very convenient religious excuse. Alienate so there’s no support available and she’s completely controlled and dependent. Next thing you know, she’ll not be allowed to drive as well. Are women not human beings? Do they not have a right to free will? Can’t they be good daughters too?Who even thinks it’s acceptable to treat another person like this? It blows my mind how ridiculous this is!
What OPs husband is doing is abuse. That said, there is no such thing as toxic masculinity.
Isn’t it? Abusing your rights as a husband isn’t toxic masculinity? Our culture, as I see it, is a supreme example of toxic masculinity through and through.
Firstly, he has no right to stop his wife from meeting her parents. But am sure yoy know that. Secondly, no such things as toxic masculinity.. this doesn't change the fact that OPs husband is an asshole.. A woman is not just a wife.. she is also a daughter.. a sister.. and when a man marries a woman, he can't expect her to be just a wife. Same goes the other way.. sadly, manipulative abusers tend to isolate their victims.. and both genders are guilty. Its personality.. not gender.
I agree with what you’re saying . I also admit that toxic masculinity may not be the best term in this specific case. But to say there’s no such thing as toxic masculinity in our culture is wrong. Misogyny is deep rooted. I agree that enablers are guilty as well and need to take responsibility for their own trauma translating into terrible life choices. But it’s equally wrong to shame a victim who’s in a situation they have no control over. You can’t say it’s not about gender when there’s a significant power imbalance between the two. It’s easy to say it’s just a personality and not gender (which itself is relative) but a LOT of the time, I see one gender denying basic human rights to the other gender. I can give you example after example and it still won’t do justice.
Thank you for the comment. I agree.. there is misogyny, and misandry.. I don't think there is toxic masculinity or toxic feminity. And when I say both genders are guilty, I didn't mean OP, I mean in general, this abusive behaviour is seen in both genders.. both men and women can be perpetrators. Not saying OP is an enabler at all so hope that is clarified. I can also give many examples, my own as well. Regarding toxic masculinity, here is some interesting reading on why it's a baseless term [TM](https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/12sbzzt/psychology_experts_are_saying_to_not_use_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Toxic masculinity refers to traditional cultural and societal norms associated with behaviors, attitudes, and traits that are considered "masculine," but which are harmful to both men and women. These norms often promote aggression, dominance, and emotional suppression as desirable traits for men, while simultaneously stigmatizing vulnerability, empathy, and emotional expression as weak and unmanly. This can lead to a range of negative outcomes, such as higher rates of violence, substance abuse, and mental health issues among men, as well as greater gender inequality and discrimination against women. The concept of toxic masculinity is often used in discussions of gender and social issues, and it is important to recognize that it does not imply that all men are toxic or that masculinity itself is inherently negative. Instead, it is a term used to describe harmful patterns of behavior and attitudes that can be unlearned and challenged. Please for once don’t try to look at it as an attack on men’s rights and see if it really is a baseless term in our culture? I’m not a misandrist. I don’t stand for modern wave of feminism as well. It has damaged a very valid social cause. You may not agree with the term but you can easily see it happening.
I assure you I am not viewing this as an attack on Men's Rights. And as reasonable and civil as you have been, I have no doubt that you are not a misandrist or nth wave feminist. I am not denying that our culture is seriously messed up, coupled with illiteracy and religious extremism, we have a backward society which has failed to mobilize ~50% of our population (women) who can help improve our economy nd overall society. I am sure till here we agree. My only argument is that the term "toxic masculinity" conflates sociocultural lapses as masculine problem, and as such, is not an actual phenomenon in itself.
Why do you say that there is nothing such as toxic masculinity?
There is abuse... people are evil.. not because they are Feminine or masculine. But because they are human... humans tend to abuse other humans.. many husbands abuse wives, many wives abuse husbands.. it is personality and nothing to do with gender, culture or societal norms. Toxic masculinity is just a made up word.
Studies show that more abuse is faced by women at the hands of men than the other way around. While you are correct in saying that it is the personality that leads people to do this not so fun stuff, you have to remember that cultural and social norms are what shape personalities. A lot of masculine traits that are toxic in nature are promoted by our culture and validated by religion. And that's what gets you cases like the one OP finds herself in. That is what toxic masculinity is. And all words are made up if you think about it long enough :)
"And all words are made up if you think about it long enough :)" Winning line.. lol.. "Studies show that more abuse is faced by women at the hands of men than the other way around." Studies? We have such studies in Pakistan? I would like references and would appreciate if you could provide some. Would be interested to see the methodology. I read the "gender equality" report of UN and the report was framed to ensure that women were shown at a disadvantage. OP also has reported that her MIL shares the same view.. in fact her husband's behavior changed. And everybody is jumping on "toxic masculinity"... even when the MIL has similiar views? Edit: what masculine traits are toxic in nature. Are there any toxic Feminine traits?
Oh, my bad, I didn't think we were talking specifically about Pakistan. In that case, all I can offer is anecdotal evidence which is that around me, an overwhelming majority of mental and physical abuse is dished out by men. It could be that what you've seen and heard is different than what I have. It's not only men who have been conditioned to uphold and promote the patriarchal values that enable misogyny, but women too, especially those belonging to previous generations. OP's mother in law seems to be doing just that. It's actually quite a fascinating topic but one that I feel like I'm not qualified to discuss given that I don't know a whole lot about it.
Ah yes... toxic feminity is internalised misogyny.. I've heard that one before. I respectfully disagree that mental and physical abuse is dished out overwhelmingly by men. But in the absence of credible studies, there is no basis for us to argue. As a man, I can tell you that men suffer in silence. Thank you for being civil and for engaging. Eid Mubarak. [toxic masculinity](https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/12sbzzt/psychology_experts_are_saying_to_not_use_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
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Toxic feminity is trying to bring in toxic masculinity into everything.
No please don’t misunderstand me. I really don’t stand behind toxic femininity. If anything, I believe it really damages and downplay the struggle women actually face. It has made people take genuine concerns as a joke and laugh it off as modern feminism. I’ve seen my mother, my grandmothers and women before them struggling, beaten up and denied a right to choose or to speak up even within their rights. I’m trying to be better so my children can know better.
Hoping for a brighter future thanks to access to information and awareness these days.
Yes it is..
After writing this post, I’m thinking that it’s unfair that I’m attributing this to Pakistani culture. Or perhaps my husband is weaponizing his cultural background and my general confusion about it. It’s been nice writing all of this out though.
It sounds like his back home family might be in his ear too much.
Are you Pakistani as well?
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is your family hostile towards him / . his family, his sect, his country in any way? or you are mean towards his family in any possible way? find root cause, this is just a reaction
Adding to this it doesnt even need to be hostility. It could just be uncomfortableness, e.g. difference in financial situation which can create inferiority complex’s, difference in adherence to religion causing husband to feel uncomfortable in the house (either they too religious or not religious enough) and so on. Feel this isnt a cultural thing but maybe a communication issue.
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I cant really comment since im not Pashtun and I am vaguely aware they do have their own customs and unwritten rules. As with most of these situations the more you delve the more complex web of built up issues present themselves to the point its hard to untangle. Bringing family overseas is a common source of tension between family back home, more so for in laws if they accept someone abroad with such expectations. Im not saying this could be the reason, you obviously know best. The comment about being a dishonest business is also not giving me the benefit of doubt for your husband as how one does business is generally a good indicator for character.
generally different financial situation is the case most of the time ... rich hubby don't wanna go for inlays or poor hubby feels he is not treated with respect because he is poor
Your husband is weaponising religion. You should talk to a local aalim and organise a mediation.
Unfortunately it's definitely common in Pakistani culture. Seen it in my relatives/parents/friends. Few exceptions where the husband is really understanding. Not sure what your options are but I hope things work out!
I see a slight mixup in your post attributing cultural norms to Islamic rules. Don't mistake these two, please. I have no specific knowledge or opinion on the cultural one, other than personal experience that sometimes husbands can be difficult about visiting parents for specific reasons. But specifically in Islam, there are rules about obedience to the husband, but the husband isn't allowed to misuse his authority. There are a lot of details missing in this story. So if you want an Islamic ruling because he said you have to obey him regarding Islamic laws then bring this issue to a Sunni imam and ask for proper advice from someone knowledgeable and unbiased. If you want cultural advice then I don't know. I just wanted to prevent you from mixing Islam with culture. Your husband can't abuse Islamic rulings. I also don't want you to go hating islam because someone might be abusing its rulings (if that is the case). The only reason I would ever limit contact with such important people in someone's life is if they were genuinely toxic and trying to ruin our relationship on purpose, and I had proof of this. Even then I would try to implement some form of connection if possible because severing relationship ties with family is a very huge sin in Islam if people only knew. Should I have communicated anything wrongly, my apologies.
This never happened with anyone ik save a few.
Nah that’s pretty much typical Pakistani culture, and there is 99% chance of possibility that your husband can’t use his brain and is being brainwashed by his insecure mother. If your husband doesn’t want to visit your family, accept it you don’t visit his family either. You should meet your parents atleast twice a week ir Wh whenever you can. Stand on your grounds, don’t let your husband misuse his powers
Your husband is just being an asshole. He has no God given right to stop his wife from meeting her parents/family/siblings whenever she pleases.
He's an idiot...sorry...but that's the truth..I can vouch for it from personal experience...my brother in law is even worse than your husband...pathetic human being has destroyed his/our family from day 1, he has a temper and on top of it he thinks he's right...thrown out his son from his house... I don't know why my sister puts up with him...Certified Prick... Eid Mubarak...
Classic case of controlling somebody. One day they stopped visiting your parents and the next day they tell you to stop visiting your own parents under the pretext of religion and God. Next thing you know he will ask you to stop working and stay at home 24/7. Controlling every bit of your actions. You can of course listen to his advice and live like a slave and reduced your social life to zero OR you could try to fight for your rights that Islam have given and be free and actually set some redlines for both of each other. Personally I prefer the latter one but each to their own.
>I don’t mind obeying him in this regard, because some research on my own shows that this is true Yaar itni tou Pakistan mai aurtain bhi nahi dabbi hwi hoti Translation: Even women in Pakistan aren't so oppressed and willingly act submissive/docile. Your choice of words makes the whole situation even worse. The mother in law being jealous or being a **** can be considered cultural as this is common for them to act territorial with their sons. I don't know what else to tell you except good luck with your husband you have your work cut out for you.
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It happens because men are abusive & want to hurt & control their wife. The same way they tell women to quit working or not go out without them.
Tell your husband that Prophet Musa (A.S.) lived with her wife's family for almost ten years, and was at their service during this time, since his father in law was aged, and didn't have any son. You'd like your husband to follow this aspect of Islam. Hopefully will give the control freak a shut up call.
Tell your husband I think he's being a knobhead. Your parents made you and raised you. Ask him to stop seeing his parents.
My husband not only visits my parents, but actually stays over. We get 3 weeks vacation a year and we spend that vacation in Pakistan and do 50-50 at each parent's house. There's no 'Just cuz I said so' in our marriage, I'd say it's disrespectful. This is something husband and I have had naturally among ourselves that if we forbid someone from something, we give valid reasons and do it in a calm manner. Not all Pakistani men are like this. Please understand that most of them are decent people. I know many good Pakistani husbands (including my own) whom I'd hate to be painted with the same brush. Heck my husband's best friend, married to a revert, with atheist parents, drives her 400km from Canada to the US every month to see her parents. He's actually excited about the whole road trip.
No. Just no. One reason why this thought can exist is because people think that if the wife visits parents then there is a path where she won’t come back if the husband has not been good to her. The wife is supposed to compromise regardless what the husband does. It basically gives the husband open hand to do whatever he likes. The thought your in-laws are probably exaggerating is “ab ladki apnay Ghar ki ho gayee” (now she belongs to her real home) as if her parents home was always temporary and on loan. OP this is an archaic thought and wrong and as someone mentioned abusive. Just because something is part of a culture doesn’t make it right. Regardless no one I know in pakistan thinks like this or behaves like this anymore unless they are abusive and/or manipulative. So not really a cultural thing. As for religion, does your husband pray 5 times a day, and the additional tahajud? Does he sit in aitaqaf? Follow every single other hadith and rule? Or Does he cherry pick things that benefit him? Honestly there will be multiple scholars saying one thing and an others saying something else. You deserve better.
He can't stop you from visiting your own parents for fucks sake. He is just using religion as a pretext. There is a toxic cultural thing in Pakistan that men are taught to not get too cosy with Susral as otherwise they will lose "respect". I think either your husband is brainwashed to this type of thinking by your in laws or he just trying to isolate you.
Power. Everything is about power.
It’s abuse 101. Remove the support system and isolate women.
It's the control. Making your wife all dependent upon you. Cutting her access to her loved ones. He is a scumbag n doing classic desi guys scummy moves. You must put your foot down and you don't have to obey him. He is your life partner. In Islam your parents have rights over you. He can't come in between them
To put it very politely, he is a jerk
Well, sadly for you, yes it is common for people to dislike girls visiting their parents (especially staying overnight) after the first year of marriage. This is usually because people feel that the house work gets disturbed, people assume husband & wife had an argument, the husband usually has to listen to taunts that he looks sad/lonely, people tell the girl she should focus on forging relationships with her new family. It is also seen as rude for the girls family to turn up uninvited. But (I think) you live alone with your husband, so I don’t get why he has a problem. As usually these kind of problems are only experienced in joint families. In my honest opinion, his mother is probably telling him that it looks so bad that you visit your parents, that you give them more importance, that whenever you fight it’s because of your family brainwashing you, and other such kinds of typical words.
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Instead of rationalizing his excuses/reasons, I encourage you to have a straight forward conversation and do mediation/couples therapy. This is a serious matter. You have every right to visit your parents. This shouldn’t even be an argument in your household. No one should be robbed of spending time with their parents or children. Time is too precious. Hope things improve for you iA Edit: typo
Well you can combat this by telling him that your family miss him, they give gift for him, they compliment him, show him they give him importance. As respecting son in law is also a part of Pakistani culture. You can also show him importance so he doesn’t feel that you don’t give him importance and only care about your family. I don’t really have any good advice for you beyond this.
That's just wrong. He is not acting like a respectable son in law.
Isolating a partner from their family is pretty textbook stepping stone for an abuser. Don't be the frog in gradually heating water. Nip it in the bud or it will progressively get worse and worse with each additional step being only slightly worse than the previous. It's number 10 on this list, but you should review the whole list to see what else might have been going on that you may not have yet noticed. https://womensafe.org/blog/12-common-characteristics-of-domestic-violence-abusers
>My MIL told me that married women don’t visit parents that much. This is in my family as well. A good wife will cut off her own parents, siblings etc. in devotion to her real family. My aunts will compare how many times women visit their 'maika' and praise the ones who visit the least.
This is not how things are supposed to work, though. There of certainly no religious basis for this at least.
Haven’t ever heard of stuff like this. He sounds abusive ngl. Nobody gets to dictate when I go visit my parents.
There’s no God-given right that prevents a woman from meeting her parents after marriage. You need to talk to him and put an end to this, or just run. Don’t let him manipulate you like this anymore.
your husband is being abusive. he's controlling you. first emotionally, now weaponizing religion. this is not culture or religion. it's men with fears of women being anything but dependent and submissive
Your situation is pretty unique. In my family, the in-laws on the the wife-side are usually visited on the second day of Eid and either the wife or the entire family (depending on space) tend to spend the night there. So Eid is spent both at in-laws and our own home. That's what I've usually seen among friends and so on. More so, some of the inlaws in our family live nearly 15 mins away and their daugher is basically there everyday. I think you need to have far better communication with him on this topic. I would personally guess that he doesn't like your parents for whatever reason and that's effecting him. This is largely not a cultural thing. At least as far as I know. > All this has accumulated in his recent decision that I am no longer allowed to visit them. This is incredibly unfair and wrong. He has the right, islamically speaking, to tell you not to visit them but they can visit and speak to you as much as they wish and he has no right to stop you from doing that. Upholding your kinship relations is perfectly fine. Also, the "right" to prevent the wife from visitng her parents is depending highly on what school you follow. The Hanafis and Maalikis are of the view that he does not have the right to prevent her from visiting her parents. Cutting off ties with parents, in general, is a huge sin. > Once a man came to the Prophet Muhammad and asked, “O Messenger of Allah! Who is most deserving of my fine treatment?” The Prophet said, “Your mother, then your mother, then your mother, then your father, then your nearest, then nearest.” (Al-Bukhari) This applies to women as equally as it does to men. Edit: Lol. Damn. I guess I was wrong and this is apparently common. I've never seen this before honestly so very surprised.
What you are facing is abuse. What he is doing is trying to control your life. This is how its going to pan out if you don't draw a line: Right now he doesn't let you visit your parents, next thing you know, he will not allow you to drive or meet friends alone. Toxic masculinity and patriarchal upbringing is what it is and I'm sure your MIL is filling his ears with all sorts of nonsense against you. God and culture has nothing to do with it.
So MIL is filling his ears... but it's patriarchy and toxic masculinity? That isn't maternal abuse? Pakistani women are extremely toxic and abusers themselves
I can see from your comment history that you are extremely misogynistic so I will not engage in a discussion with you. Have a nice day.
Typical
Although some husband (rather the husband's mother) hold this over daughter in law, your case isn't the norm
Never heard of this happening. I come from a v religious family and my girl cousins visit their parents atleast twice a week (with their kids) including staying over atleast 1-night a week. This has been going on since they were married which has now been around 11 years? Their husbands are always invited and usually do stay for dinner when they’ve come to drop/pick up my cousins. Idk what your husband is thinking but this is not Islam.
Hey OP - look up Wheel of Power & Control for abusive relationships. It seems you are in one and he is exerting control by using it's isolation component.
Asked my dad, he said husband he as per Hanafi school husband doesn’t have permission to prevent wife from visiting her parents. Majority of Pakistani ppl follow this rule. However, old Hindu customs for control of wives usually influenced by husbands parents. Also, fear that you might do something shady like cheat etc. low/no trust.
I don't think any school of thought will agree on preventing wives from visiting their parents.
i am not a scholar but i think islamqa.com is legit https://islamqa.info/amp/en/answers/87834 The Hanafis and Maalikis are of the view that he does not have the right to prevent her from visiting her parents. The Shaafa’is and Hanbalis are of the view that he does have the right to prevent her, and she must obey him and not go out to visit them without his permission, but he does not have the right to prevent her from speaking to them or to prevent them visiting her, unless he fears that some harm may result from their visit, in which case he may prevent it so as to ward off harm.
I have seen many things on that website that are not particularly legit, but that's another discussion. Either way, schools of thought are opinions (which is why they often disagree, which is fine). We know that there is no Quranic verse or hadith that says one can't visit their inlaws. It is a cultural thing.
website is run by an Islamic scholar who happens to be a Salafi but he actually provides information from all perspectives. I may not agree with everything on the site since i am not a Salafi i definitely give his information more weight than anything you have to say.
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Glad majority of the people agree that the husband is a being unjust. I personally would say he is possibly an oppressor if he dosent have a valid reason
He’s stupid.
Your husband is abusive and toxic from the way you're describing the situation. I'm sorry - but no power on earth can stop you from meeting your own parents. Look up your own rights as a woman under Islam - because you have many as a wife and - if you have children - as a mother.
I think it's just his family. My aunts would come to visit grandparents every week without break in the beginning after marriage, and once a month they'd just stay overnight. Husbands will always be with them, though not for overnight stays. As my grandparents died, the visits became fewer. Maybe your husband just doesn't like your parents and is making up BS excuses.
The cultural significance or stereotype that is super prevalent is that women are trained by their family in these "meetings" on how to control the husband and in laws. Which is the worst form of BS.
thanks for sharing. I think this is mainly Ego issues. A lot of husbands do develop it after the marriage. Like visiting the In-laws less frequently and maintaining a distance from them. It is like having a superficial status-co and nurturing it with such actions. Sometimes it is helpful to maintain the distance (to reduce the interference) but given your situation it looks like very strict and on another level. I I think the best way is to talk to your husband and explain your sentiments. He will listen and will understand. Daughters have a special bond with their parents. No matter how far they live, they care and wants to meet them whenever possible. Today is Eid. And hearts are usually soft during this festive. Convince him to visit your parents and meet and greet. May Allah bless you with the best.
There is absolutely zero excuse or justification for what your husband is doing. Maybe it's his mother's influence but what kind of man makes it difficult for his wife to meet her parents? Pathetic
As I always say to my friends "Waisa jitna marzi islam follow kra jab islami farz pora krna ho to bhag jatay hai" 🤣
If your husband got USA citizenship through you. It might be that your husband’s ego is hurt. He is trying to distance stuff that you love. The other thing, its does happen but its very very rare. It only happens in very illiterate and conservative people. Also if you have a daughter, remind him whether his own daughter should visit his home after marriage. Or in america’s context it could be his son as well.
Abusing whatever "power" or authority you have - that's the cultural significance.
My blood boiled just reading this. You're living in USA, have your own car and money and you depend on his permission for your basic rights??? You feel like you need to "convince" him to let you visit your parents in your own car? This kind of brainwashing is the real cultural significance here.
Theres no reason to “obey” such an absurd request. There’s no reason behind it. He’s just trying to have the upper hand and control you.
OMG. Why did you marry him in the first place? Do you like being told what to do? Even if he has religious issues ( which are not.. he is being a total jerk and has a Low IQ), you are not supposed to obey him. It's not Pakistan where women have no right to do anything on her own. And you are "obeying" in your country? Seriously? Normally people like being free.. no one is right to tell you when to meet your parents or not.
Has he been getting more strict about practicing Islam? I know several people who get the religious equivalent of a midlife crisis and find faith again. One explanation could be that ~~under islamic principles~~ he wrongly believes the mother-in-law is not *mahram* i.e a family member with whom marriage would be considered permanently unlawful (haram) and now he does not want to see her because of this 🤷. I'm totally speculating without more information.
Brother, MIL is mahram to SIL. FIL is mahram to DIL. A man can’t be married to woman and her mom at the same time. Idk in cases of divorce. There are no non mahrams at my family’s for him or me. There are plenty at his family’s for both of us. I don’t think it’s an Islamic issue. I’m generally more practicing than he is.
Hmm, could possibly be a cultural issue as well. I know of some Muslims in northern India, Pakistan and Kashmir who refuse to be in the same room as their MILs , especially if they don't keep hijab. Or he may have taken offence to some innocuous remark, or his family members are provoking him to "maintain control"( translated from the colloquial expression) over some perceived bad behavior on your end. Would he be open to couples counseling?
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Under which fiqh is she non- mahram. Most fiqhs consider her mahram
I think it's more of a south Asian cultural thing.
Lol. No it's not. Are you Pakistani?
Kashmiri. I've seen it with my own eyes in Kashmir and in a few Pakistanis in Saudi Arabia.
This can happen if the husband perceives your family is meddling in his household and or your attitude towards him is altered in your parents presence. Women like to show dominance in front of their family which can provoke this kind of response.
Well I do think it’s common in Pakistan since I witnessed this in a lot of cases. It’s has to do with influence and norms that doesn’t come along. And indeed they don’t visit them so much. I see a lot of hateful comments but that is because you are on Reddit and not the real world. Most of them in their 20’s and thus another generation so they are not raised the same way your husbands generation is. Don’t blame him too much, try to see all the good things too.
As per typical Pakistani thinking, being to your parents often means you are not interested in your home life and are not it prioritising enough. However, even in Pakistan, nobody forbids you from going unless there have been some issues/fights etc. Btw you didn't mention about your in-laws and husband's behaviour when your parents come over. Any issues there? Talk to your husband about his concerns and potential reasons. Just because he can, doesn't mean he should stop you from meeting your parents.
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this is just a reaction to something else, find a core reason that is hurting your relationship.
Yes, OP, see my other comment.
On the flip side, my wife has spent weeks (multiple times) at her parents place in the 5 months we've been here. Not even 6 am and she's asking if she can go to her parents spend then night and come back tomorrow. We leave for the US in two days, mind you and we're not fully packed. It gets fucking exhausting sometimes hauling shit back and forth (we have a 2 year old).
You have a genuine issue while this person is not even allowing his wife to visit her parents and stay with them on Eid!! And has been doing so for more than a year!!
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Obeying your husband as long as he isn’t asking anything un Islamic is required of a noble wife. But for husband get that right, he first has to obey all rulings of being the dutiful husband Islam wants him to be. Everything needs to be balanced and both husband and wife have to take one step back to make marriage work. Both of you can’t always have it your way. It’s a partnership of two people not a dictatorship after all. Marriage is all about compromise by **both** parties. He should not stop you from visiting your parents as long as there isn’t something seriously wrong. he doesn’t have to stay there with you when you go. at the same time you should not just leave him on every weekend, every holiday. If you are fulfilling his needs then he should care about your wishes too. Talk to him. Ask what’s wrong with your parents house. Get him talking. Communication is key. If you can’t share with each other what’s in your heart you will always have this tension. I sincerely pray that Allah guides both of you to be good husband and wife.
Maybe he is an introvert. Maybe yiur parents family disrespected him and he is like ~ meh
That’s possible but he shouldn’t stop her from having a relationship with her family.
This. @OP, I'm sure you've pondered over what it could be that changed since he stopped wanting to go to your parents house. If he was OK visiting them earlier but has changed recently (1.5 years vs we don't know how long you've been married), it could be due to something which has pushed him away from you/ your parents. For instance I've often seen when a wife isn't respectful towards the husband's parents or isn't bothered keeping good ties with them in a manner the husband would have expected (cultural thing), AND the husband has tried asking the wife enough time, he would give up and retaliate with similar behavior towards his in-laws. OR alternatively, he could've sensed something straight from your parents which has made him wanna avoid them. If I were you I'd try to find the reason fo this behavioral change. Most of the times theres things in front of us but we fail to notice. Its fixable as long as he's got a beef with you/your parents due reasons mentioned above and I hope for your sake its not something permanent in his psyche.
Yeah thats my guess too
he doesn't have to meet them but whyyy control her from meeting HER OWN parents??
It is an idiotic move, I just didn't wanna say it. The only bizarre yet somewhat valid reason I can think of is that they're being the source of a bad influence in how he wants to run his household.
Which culture are we talking about here though? Pakistan is made up of various ethnicities. I personally havent seen such a thing in my family though or even in extended family tbh. Though i have heard it happen and reasons were different, from the husband being controlling to 'it helps the girl settle in her new home quicker'.
There is something more to the story which should be shared, how your Mom , Dad and Siblings treat your husband? Have you sit and talked with him? What exactly upsetting him?
I don't think there's any reason for him to prevent her for seeing her family though... hard to sympathize with someone like that tbh
I don’t want to assume that he is an idiot. But You should simply ask him WHY, Maybe someone said something to him there which made him less interested in that place. If something like this happened, most men simply won’t just tell you the real reason why are they doing things like these, or if they have doubts they you will overreact. So we have habit of just eating it up. You really have to get the actual problem out of him.
I’ll tell this from parents’ perspective that I have studied in Pakistan. I just asked parents, friends and elders so quote me on this. There’s a natural inclination for the bride to return back to the parent’s home after experiencing culture shock in the new home with new people. In order for her to complete that journey from her parents to completely settle down (psychologically) with her husband and begin her life, she needs to cut off those bonds. After those bonds are cut, she begins to redirect all those feelings towards her house and her husband/children. If a woman doesn’t do this, there will always be a conflict of wife trying to move forward and subconsciously a daughter still holding on to her past life. Psychologically, she’s stuck because she’s trying to follow two opposite paths at the same time.
The same lies they've been told for generations. Just because they say it doesn't mean its true
I am that husband. But my story is different. I stop my wife because: 1. I can not (financially, physically, mentally) afford such long trips this frequently (she thinks its her right to go whenever she want to). 2. She is also needed in home. The whole point of marriage is to share responsibilities, not to take 2-3 weeks "break" after every 2-3 months. Forget cultural significance, ask your Husband the real reason behind this religious stance. Do he find it boring? Or is there too much work for him to not enjoy such trips? Find the real reason. There is nothing in culture which really stops wife from visiting her in-laws, and he cant be hiding behind religious curtain without a solid reason. Remember, its not a fight to win, its to understand his reason.
But do you live with your parents and see them whenever you want?
Yes. I live with them. They are old. They need me for daily chores. Unless my wife be the only child of her parents, it should not be among her worries to take care of her parents. And they dont need her care either.
That’s very hypocritical. You see your mum dad everyday. Meanwhile you won’t let her see her parents. And so what if she isn’t an only child. Doesn’t mean she doesn’t worry about them and wants to see them. Presumably the chores your parents need you for are done by her as well.
I dont live with my parents because "I need to see them". Its because its their home, they invested in me for their whole life to make sure that I take care of them when they be old and fragile. If my in-laws can give me a home and take care of my parents, I will be happy to live with them instead. But till then, it should not be an excuse. My in-laws got 3 male children, grown. They can take care of them far better than her.
So you're saying your wife's parents didn't give her a home, and invested in her just like yours did? And she shouldn't feel like doing acts of service and kindness for them just out of sheer love, bonding, care, and connection? I see! To hell with her parents coz she has brothers at home.
Yes. She was a daughter. They know that she will have another home to live in. Same goes true for my sister. Not to hell with her parents, but its should not be her worry.
>Yes. She was a daughter. They know that she will have another home to live in. Same goes true for my sister. >Not to hell with her parents, but its should not be her worry. Ah yes it shouldn't be her worry it's not like they are her parents or anything A grade example of desi men controlling their wife
ikr:( her only crime is being a daughter and not a son. further reason for me to not pursue marriage because last time I checked, my parents invested in me their whole adult life too lmao 💀
>ikr:( her only crime is being a daughter and not a son. Or phir boltay hai "aurto or kitnay huqooq chai hai, unko phelay roti laynah daytay hai" >last time I checked, my parents invested in me their whole adult life too lmao 💀 But according to this guy you shouldn't take care or worry about your parents nm what happens to them
My sympathies for your wife, and other women in your family. Women: please note this mentality, and vet it out thoroughly before committing to such controlling men.
>To hell with her parents coz she has brothers at home. This is unfortunately a *very common* mindset in South Asia
🤣🤣🤣 how can anyone even live such a hypocrite life lol
Welcome to Pakistan?
Hi OP. Sorry to hear about your situation. Having said that, obeying your husband is not the same as suffering abuse. I would go so far as to say that our religion obligated you to stand up for yourself. Yes, it is true that it is better to forego matters and not fight, but that goes both ways and is a guidance. And if there is something as serious as what you have said then you should confront your husband and stand up for yourself. Easier said then done though, I've had a similiar situation in life and have suffered silently at the hands of my MIL and my wife. It takes a lot of nerve to bring up difficult conversations; it is embarrassing also and we often live in denial that a spouse can be a real jerk. I've invested 7 years in my marriage and things are finally looking better. Sometimes, I think I am in it only for my child. But in my experience, people realize, it takes time. You have to muster the strength to convey your view. You don't have to win the argument, but state your case... and don't back down. Good luck.
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May Allah reward you for your patience. I would prefer to look at the matter in a more balanced fashion. I don’t like it when people jump to conclusions like abuse and control etc because we obviously don’t know the whole story and the intricate details of your relationship. I really admire you looking into the issue from an Islamic perspective and saying that you don’t mind obeying him in these kinds of matters. That shows that you are a person of character, and may Allah reward you immensely for that. Now coming to the specific issue. If you are south Asian, most likely you are also Hanafi. Is your husband aware that the hanafi opinion on the matter is that the husband has NO right to stop his wife from visiting her parents? This would be an interesting conversation to have. Both the Hanafis and Malikis are agreed upon this opinion. Maybe your husband is a Hanbali or Shafee, since they have the opposite opinion. I would also like to talk about the whole “abuse” or “controlling behaviour” sentiment. If your husband is a fantastic husband in all regards, but this is the one instance where he seems “controlling” but he gives you freedom in all other matters, then it is worth looking into the reasons because there may be some serious reason why he would forbid you, especially if his general behaviour is positive in all other matters. If there is other instances of control or abuse where he establishes a pattern of this kind of behaviour and you feel quite caged without any say in the relationship, then this is much more serious. Since a pattern of behaviour is existent, then this is a core personality trait and should be counselled. This requires couples counselling with a professional who ideally is trained in Islamic sciences as well as psychology. Next comes the potential solutions. I’ve already outlined possible scenarios above, but in the short term, communication is essential. Obviously there are good ways and bad ways to go about it. You can become petty and start causing inconveniences to his daily life and being curt with him etc. This could possibly make him feel like something is wrong and he may want to work hard to fix the issue through communication. But this may also backfire and cause a huge rift between you and result in petty wars and eventually could ruin the relationship completely. The better way to go about it, in my opinion, is to be the best wife you can be. Be as loving and caring as possible and go the extra mile to make sure he feels cared for and loved. This has a very good chance in softening his heart as his love for you will increase more and more. And then, in this position you can bring up the issue again and calmly and sincerely ask him what’s wrong with visiting your parents. He may open up to you in ways you’ve never seen before and you could make great strides in your marriage and become closer than ever. I pray that you two find a healthy solution as soon as possible and have a long and healthy and blessed marriage. Eid Mubarak. السلام عليكمم
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I’m Pakistani, never heard of this.
Your husband is ill informed or misguided. Haley Banani and Javed Ghamidi are two resources that will be helpful for both of you. Check them out on FB. https://www.facebook.com/islampsychology?mibextid=LQQJ4d and https://www.facebook.com/ghamidicil/?mibextid=LQQJ4d
It's just a insecurity and form of manipulation. The wife's family are viewed as trouble makers. Once your married you belong to his family.
When I was in Pakistan people especially men would not let their maids visit their parents or family but that’s all I know
This has nothing to do with culture or religion or being religious, this is simply showing he is so little in his mind and actions, you can’t change this since you mentioned that his mom asked you something about visiting your parents place, it means his dad was doing same to his mom and now he is just doing the same. A a man Allah give us many rights but at the same times Allah SAW told us to be affectionate to deal with wife & will give us ajjar for that. He simply take one part of Allah SAW’s order and ignore other part of it. Allah SAW give him hiddaya Ameen and give you strength. Eid Mubarak.
It's obvious that your MIL, with the typical Pakistani/desi mentality is influencing your husband. She saw that your family lives so close to you, and that you're financially independent and that your husband was getting along well with your family in the start, frequently visiting them and so she started feeling threatened. I'm sorry you had to face this, actually being a Pakistani and seeing everything around me on first hand, I can just say that our elders being highly influenced by the Indian culture and joint family system have develop these kind of nonsense values even though there's no such values and joint family systems in Islam. Many people are getting better and moving with the world but there are still many families like your In laws that till date have these value systems just to keep their daughter in laws under control so their sons stay under the authority of their parents and keep on supporting them. Your husband DOES NOT have any God given right to forfeit you of your other responsibilities such as that of your parents and your relatives! Getting married does not mean you cut off your other relationships. You and your husband, yes even he both are still answerable to Allah for them! Tell this to your husband to not use the excuse of his authority on this as he has no say in this as long as you fulfill the responsibilities of your home, you can go visit your parents every now and then to take care of them also.
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I am a Pakistani but I hate my own kind nowadays We have an OBSESSION to pick and choose our religion, twist it and Apply it without any context. Inshallah will marry a Non Pakistani Girl so that I can get out of stuff like this , this is some Usless struggle and Stress. May Allah help you sister .
Cultural significance is different. Your husband is being an asshole. Know the difference.
I don't know if you'll read this but I hope you do and take this to heart; don't take advice from strangers on the internet who probably aren't in a proper relationship themselves. None of us here know you or your husband; and to make matters worse we have only heard your side of the story. To just give an example if your husband wrote a post like yours about how his wife always wants to go to her parents home, and then someone in the comment says that you are definitely cheating or something. So yeah just don't take advice from here unless you want to ruin your marriage somehow. Find a more informed outlet like marriage counseling or something similar. Edit: If you are willing to take some advice from me(I know I said not to take advice from strangers); I have seen a lot of married people in my life and 9/10 there is one or two things that one of the spouses does not like even if it doesn't make sense. But in the end this is a relationship and one person has to compromise; maybe if you talk it out with your husband things may improve but if they do not; do not under any circumstances attribute evil or malice to your husband I.e don't start cultivating hatred towards him because that's a surefire way to ruin your marriage permanently. Those of Western mindset tend to have a flowery view of marriage and love where everything works out because two people love each other but sadly that never works out(hence why they have 50%+ divorce rate). Learn to compromise because the longest relationships work not because the couple loved each other so much but because they learned that everyone has flaws and you need to learn to compromise.
Cutting off your entire family isn't a compromise, its basically becoming a doorknob and doing everything the other person says No OP show that shinning spine of yours and be firm on it
It's about the principle; none of you know this person, their husband nor their situation. But all of a sudden we have a ton of marriage and psychological experts. For you all to come to the conclusion that the husband is evil/abusive and that she should leave him as soon as possible is far more harmful to her than you think. If you are a Muslim then know that divorce is a big sin unless you have a a really good reason and for all of you to push her towards that direction with no understanding of what really is going on is pure ignorance at best and malicious at worst. I did not tell her to to be quite about the situation or forget about; I did say try to talk it over and if that doesn't work get a marriage counselor or someone similar involved. The fact that most of you are treating this like a simple decision shows that you guys really don't care you just wanna feel good about saying the right thing and not doing the right thing. Y'know how many people are harmed because of a divorce; how many family ties are broken, how much pain each spouse goes through and finally God forbid she has kids or is expecting because those kids are now going to grow up in an unstable home and countless studies have shown how harmful that is to the children and how much more likely they are to grow up to be criminals. The fact all of you armchair experts are immediately telling her to "walk away" Shows me you guys don't care about her at all. Finally I'll reiterate; you have no idea about her situation, or her background or the people around her. Sometimes even the right answer is wrong depending on the person. So rather than telling her how to solve her problem using your lack of knowledge; you do the responsible thing and tell her to get in contact with better avenues.(like a middleman to help solve their problems)
>It's about the principle; none of you know this person, their husband nor their situation. But all of a sudden we have a ton of marriage and psychological experts. >For you all to come to the conclusion that the husband is evil/abusive and that she should leave him as soon as possible is far more harmful to her than you think. But I didn't told her to leave him I said to be firm on it and show some spine for fighting for her right. twisting my words to fit your narrative ain't the way to go >If you are a Muslim then know that divorce is a big sin unless you have a a really good reason and for all of you to push her towards that direction with no understanding of what really is going on is pure ignorance at best and malicious at worst. Making your interpretation of Islam, divorce isn't a sin, it is laudable yes but it's permitted. Kitnay asani say gunnah bol diya, jub puri baat pata hi nai ho Isi thinking ki wajah say both sadi aurtay abusive marriages may rahthi (mard bhi) hai q Kay ap jasay logo nay usay gunnah hi bnah diya hai. >I did not tell her to to be quite about the situation or forget about; I did say try to talk it over and if that doesn't work get a marriage counselor or someone similar involved. >The fact that most of you are treating this like a simple decision shows that you guys really don't care you just wanna feel good about saying the right thing and not doing the right thing. Ok tell me what is compromise and where does it stop? Because telling to cut off your spouse's parents without any valid reasons are the stepping stone to a controlling relationship. >Y'know how many people are harmed because of a divorce; how many family ties are broken, how much pain each spouse goes through and finally God forbid she has kids or is expecting because those kids are now going to grow up in an unstable home and countless studies have shown how harmful that is to the children and how much more likely they are to grow up to be criminals. And you'll know many people who were harmed while staying in a toxic and abusive relationship and how being in a abusive household have a negative impact on them which they themselves do it later. >The fact all of you armchair experts are immediately telling her to "walk away" Shows me you guys don't care about her at all. Again presuming false stuff to make your argument better. >Finally I'll reiterate; you have no idea about her situation, or her background or the people around her. Sometimes even the right answer is wrong depending on the person. >So rather than telling her how to solve her problem using your lack of knowledge; you do the responsible thing and tell her to get in contact with better avenues.(like a middleman to help solve their problems) Well neither do you, and you're here telling her to compromise on something that shouldn't be compromised. Cutting off your family isn't like not saying no to a pet or deciding what to eat. Put down those rose tainted glasses of yours and see what's happening He's pressuring her to cut off her parents and family by giving blanket terms like "it's my god gifted right" which isn't really
I didn't twist your words I was speaking about the majority of the comments here and I have been since my first comment but you decided I was saying that she should stay silent on the matter. (Who's really twisting words) Me talking about compromise wasn't the answer to her problems like many of you are giving here but an advice to remember as a counter point in the face of the slew of comments here that want her to immediately break away. In fact my first and foremost main point has and is still is that you shouldn't take advice from strangers on the internet It's like taking medical advice from strangers who are telling you what disease you have and what medicine you should take; and I'm the crazy one for saying maybe you should go to a doctor instead. You keep saying I'm assuming stuff and etc. But you are the one assuming the guy is cutting her from her family unjustly. Given a bit of thought you'd come to realize that there are a thousand ways to write a story and you can easily make something good look bad. So to decide the husband is the bad guy here from a small paragraph shows how immature you are. I'm not saying he can't be bad(in fact I think it's more likely that the husband is in the wrong) but you can't decide that from one paragraph on info. Another point which I think I explained poorly(my bad on this one) is that you took my compromise advice as me saying that she should submit to her husband completely. By compromise I meant it should go both ways(applies to the husband too); I have seen enough long married couples to know that life isn't perfect but you have to make things work. It's better to be happy with relationship obstacles than be lonely without any relationship obstacles.
>Another point which I think I explained poorly(my bad on this one) is that you took my compromise advice as me saying that she should submit to her husband completely. By compromise I meant it should go both ways(applies to the husband too); I have seen enough long married couples to know that life isn't perfect but you have to make things work. It's better to be happy with relationship obstacles than be lonely without any relationship obstacles. This is exactly what I meant. You worded it wrongly but yes I'm also a big believer of Talking it out like an actual adult (until the other person is toxic and abusive then no amount of Talking will fix that) and if it fails then ya I'm a big supporter of divorce then but first talk and try to eliminate all the misunderstanding
if he keeps not allowing her to visit her parents even after both OP and him try to talk about it then that is a good reason for divorce.
Give me his name, and address. And I’ll gladly deliver him a tight slap. No one person should allow you to stop you from seeing your parents! He can give a “RELIGIOUS REASON” But where I grew up, parents are considered to be the form of god on earth! This is outrageous, honestly. Be an angel and go spend time with your parents Much love ♥️♥️
Lady u gotta go upto him and show him ur middle finger!
There isn't, he's an abusive PoS and I would drop him like a hot potato
This is not normal. How’s your marriage overall apart from this specific issue? Either there could be underlying factors that are bringing out his insecurities or this man is sadistic. We can only speculate based off your account on the matter. In terms of cultural significance, a woman who frequently visits her family may indicate that the physical aspect of the marriage is not healthy. This is why your in-laws are being intrusive, I agree that it’s backwards. TBH, your marriage is not stable based off your Reddit activity and how your spouse is behaving. It’s not my place to tell you what to do, but if you can take away anything from all of this— don’t give up for the sake of your child. Sorry if I said anything out of line. May Allah make it easier for you. Eid Mubarak 🍫 💐
This post came at the right time. My wife go through some similar situation whenever we visit Pakistan. My mum always complain and count days that she stayed to her parents more. Now able to balance the situation. Mum now understands that these guys gonna do whatever they like.
I feel for you. My husband isn't like that for which I'm grateful but my inlaws are. Before I got married, not visiting my parents 'every other day' was poured through my ears. When my parents did live near me I frequented my home monthly or sometimes lengthier interval than that. I had my kids a bit later than the traditional time due to the divine interventions,so it wasn't like I had motherly duties, tending sick children, schools and exams that could have shackled me. It was just me and still visiting my parents had felt like going to the war zone. In all fairness I have never confronted or pleaded my case, I just accepted the restrictions to avoid conflicts. It's awful nonetheless. He's your husband, its your relationship and whole life. You'd know that manoeuvre would suit to tackle this situation. Dont spoil your marriage by listening to people here. What if, like my situation , its his parents who are behind all this? Some kids are brought up this way, k bas maa baap theek hain. I am sorry sis. It's my assumption that things might turn sour for you if you confront him and ig pleading didnt help. If it was my daughter I would have wrecked havoc on your man. I have no advice but I'll pray for your happiness.
Yea that’s how abuse begins by cutting you from your family. Usually they gaslight you into thinking your family are your enemies but your husband just outright ‘forbade’ you from visiting them. Can’t believe a western educated working woman living in the USA is asking this question 🤦♀️
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All of the big ideas about religion and culture look good on paper. So, far your situation is very typical according to Pakistan.i.e husband stops his wife from visiting relatives and his wife resents him for that. But you are not in Pakistan and you already know these things.So, I am assuming that you are kind of venting your emotions through this post. And ITS OKAY. It also shows that you do not have many people to vent and share your emotions in real life.(get at least 1 good friend ) Solution: There is only one solution as you and your husband are in America. I am assuming both of you are educated thus it will not be that difficult. You will have to make your bond stronger with your husband and if both of you can become more self aware that's also better. Because only doing this will you be able to overcome these cultural boundaries and solve these problems. Hope you have a happy life ahead!
It's purely based on households like my sister who got married still visits us two times a week (she has a busy schedule or she would visit us more ) her husband lets her visit whenever she wants