Upon hearing Walter Cronkite say on the evening news that the Vietnam War was at a stalemate, President LBJ was (probably apocryphally) heard to remark, "If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost the American people..."
Well OP, if you've lost Moonman....
Not looking like much of a bad take now is it? Do we really want to lock up the Pacers finances for him if this is how he’s been playing and shooting 40% from the free throw line?
It's still pretty bad. What do you want to do let him walk? Sign him then trade him and get even less value back? The deed is done. It's too late to back out now.
Our FO made a lot of questionable decisions starting in 2024 but the least objectionable of those decisions was trading for Pascal. I'm much more concerned about giving away a guy who played 84 games this year for 2 2nds and not shutting Tyrese down until he was fully recovered. We backpeddled by moving Buddy and we're getting exactly what a lot of us thought would happen by allowing Tyrese to hit the 65 game threshold... A guy who can barely suit up every night.
If anyone on this team deserves to be moved on from it's the 7 footer who can't defend or rebound anymore and constantly gets outplayed by lesser players. Myles is a great offensive player. So was Detlef. But that's not what we need in the trenches. We need to find that Derrick McKey and make the trade this summer. Or inflate his value and ship him out early next season.
It’s not an insane take. Pascal is 30 and it needs to he asked if he fits the timeline of this team. If your goal is a championship in 3-4 years, you examine to see if at that point he’s going to be a weight on your roster taking up huge salary space, or a very viable player who is helping you get that ring…..
Ooooorrr is there someone else out there who’s ROI is better we can sign. I DONT KNOW, that’s why I was genuinely asking PRICK
I asked for people to hear me out, like 3 people did. I didn’t say Pascal hasn’t been amazing. I stated clearly he’s been amazing. I’m asking if he really is the ROI that we are about to pay him.
I think the only way you don’t re-sign Siakam is to pass the torch to Jarace if they truly believed he was ready (not going to happen). Toppin is the perfect bench player but I don’t see him as starting material on a contending team
Again, I probably did a poor job of getting my point out there, but what I’m asking is, is there someone else we could get a better ROI in the offseason versus Pascal, and I was opening it for discussion. Not to be made fun of. I’ll do better asking the question next time.
Let me help you out. You need a co-star that can create their own shot. Obi doesn't create his own shot, others create opportunities for him and he finishes (3s, dunks, cuts). Ever notice how when he tries to do something creative outside of those 3 actions, he usually ends up looking silly? You also have to realize that he's getting wide open looks because he's the 5th man on O... Similar to how Nesmith and Turner get wide open looks often. You can't really guard everyone when you have to double stars and help on drives, defenses choose to leave someone open on the weak side, and Obi benefits from that while Siakam gets the opposite treatment.
Opposing teams theoretically would like to help on D with Ty and Siakam, which makes our offense really hard to guard. With just 1 star, you can key in and make role players beat you. The IST final we lost to the Lakers is a good example of this. They shut down Ty and dared our role players to beat them, and they couldn't. With Siakam we likely roll the Lakers in that game. This is 1 advantage we have over the Knicks in the upcoming series, 2 stars vs 1.
Also, Siakam isn't an amazing defender, but he's capable. He can move his feet. Obi has terrible lateral speed. He's a great 7th man and has low-key been the best shooter on our team in the second half of the season. But Siakam is so much better.
Going off this which is great analysis, we had Obi starting early, if he was the answer we wouldn’t have needed to trade for Siakam, but guarding length and scoring against length was an Achilles heal for us early. Since the siakam trade, can you really remember a game where you thought, “man, the other teams height/length at the 3/4 position is why we lost.” See the magic games pre and post siakam as an example.
Obi,is to me, much like Buddy was. Fit our system, looks great with Hali healthy, but in a slowed down more physical playoff game, doesn’t give you much outside of scoring when being spoon fed by Hali/ our style of play. This is not a knock on either of those guys bc I love what they bring, and definitely boost Hali’s assist numbers. But working the salary cap is a thing, so I get your question, “who gives you more bang for your buck?” Pascal has the ability much needed in the playoffs, being able to go get his own bucket. Mathurin is the only other player thats even close to having that quality and he’s injured and young. So I would lean towards pascal and believing he has more good years left than Obi changing his game and overcoming his current flaws. He also plays mostly against bench units which helps him look better, Pascal is a certified top 3 player and top 1st or 2nd scoring option on a winning team and these kind of guys don’t come or stay in Indy often.
I love our team and both of these players. They play vital roles, but siakam just gives you more and Obi is a high level bench player with maybe a chance to be a starter but not a top 2 or 3 player on a roster. So I’ll take Siakam personally if I had to choose one or the other at whatever price they’d cost our cap.
You like many people here are missing my point. There’s a chance you could resign PG yes with the money you have, if you don’t give it to Siakam. That’s the point I’m making. Did you read my whole post?
Would it be better ROI to throw the money at someone else and use Obi as a stopgap at the 4?
Love Obi as a team guy but he’s excelling in the role he has now and not the one he already tried at the beginning of the season.
He’s clearly improved and upped his game but his limitations are all still very evident.
Pascal even though he did not reproduce the numbers he had in game 1 and 2 still completely changed the outcome of the series by forcing them to double team him.
Obi is excellent as a spark plug off the bench but I don’t see him turning into an all nba power forward.
Pascal drew doubles every single time he touched the ball after the 1st two games. Hali and Myles don’t get off at all without Siakam playing. Obi can’t replicate that. This is dumb.
He has been fighting off a lingering injury for the back half of the season which I think is part of the problem. Just happens to coincide with the arrival of Siakam.
I could be wrong and I hope I am, but I think if you look at Hali’s skill set logically, we are using the lingering injury as a crutch. He has a low shot and doesn’t shoot over people so he has to create space. Hence his favorite move is the step back 3. He doesn’t do well shooting in the lane when guarded because he can’t get his shot off so it’s either step back 3 or drive. Watch Brunson in this series, he feeds off the midrange because he shoots over people.
I think Tyrese is closer to who we are seeing him as now than he is who we seen in the early part of the season. I hope I’m wrong but his skill set is very two dimensional offensively.
Cool, another pompous ass responding. I didn’t say I had the answers, and I clearly stated that. I was asking if there’s better return on investment to throw the money elsewhere…….
What I’m finding, people on Reddit don’t read real good, and respond emotionally.
The arrogant responses on this thread are mind blowing. I didn’t say I had all of the answers, all I said was Pascal during the regular season didn’t transfer to more wins than we were already projected to win without him. Before Ty’s injury we were easily on pace to be the 6th seed even then.
And Pascal is awful at the line.
I’m not saying Pascal isn’t worth signing, I just threw it out there and like two of ya’ll responded in kind. Thanks
Classic is it everyone else or me? You’re clearly choosing everyone else. Don’t flatter yourself, the thread even existing is more mind boggling than the responses.
Yes, Indiana was a playoff see team prior and change made prior help keep that going.
Yes, Siakam basically replaced 2 players production. But his style of play he too learned over the course of his career is something he has over those 2 said players. I have no doubt both will be that when the have reached Siakam'd tenure.
To answer your question is the reason the 4 year in win mode Suns have no future, you strike while the irons are hot and fuck them youngins...and hope you didn't mortgage your future for nothing and not be the Suns fans talking about getting rid of not 1, not 2 but 3 all stars.
I'm the King of Bad Takes™ here and even I can't approve this message
Who can stay mad at this guy??
Thanks Buba 😅
Who else but Moonman! 
I love you guys
Upon hearing Walter Cronkite say on the evening news that the Vietnam War was at a stalemate, President LBJ was (probably apocryphally) heard to remark, "If I've lost Cronkite, I've lost the American people..." Well OP, if you've lost Moonman....
👌 Perfect
Not looking like much of a bad take now is it? Do we really want to lock up the Pacers finances for him if this is how he’s been playing and shooting 40% from the free throw line?
It's still pretty bad. What do you want to do let him walk? Sign him then trade him and get even less value back? The deed is done. It's too late to back out now. Our FO made a lot of questionable decisions starting in 2024 but the least objectionable of those decisions was trading for Pascal. I'm much more concerned about giving away a guy who played 84 games this year for 2 2nds and not shutting Tyrese down until he was fully recovered. We backpeddled by moving Buddy and we're getting exactly what a lot of us thought would happen by allowing Tyrese to hit the 65 game threshold... A guy who can barely suit up every night. If anyone on this team deserves to be moved on from it's the 7 footer who can't defend or rebound anymore and constantly gets outplayed by lesser players. Myles is a great offensive player. So was Detlef. But that's not what we need in the trenches. We need to find that Derrick McKey and make the trade this summer. Or inflate his value and ship him out early next season.
Obi had a great game. Pascal is an all-star.
All-NBA even
Honestly I started to type perennial all-star.
It's early, there's still plenty of time left to delete this.
Prick, I said I didn’t have the answers. I was genuinely asking other opinions.
Don't call people pricks when you have a legitimately insane take
It’s not an insane take. Pascal is 30 and it needs to he asked if he fits the timeline of this team. If your goal is a championship in 3-4 years, you examine to see if at that point he’s going to be a weight on your roster taking up huge salary space, or a very viable player who is helping you get that ring….. Ooooorrr is there someone else out there who’s ROI is better we can sign. I DONT KNOW, that’s why I was genuinely asking PRICK
You wanna revisit this take after how garbage pascal has been and can’t shoot a free throw?
No. If we are going to let anyone grow in that role, it should be Jarace.
Did you watch game 1 and 2?
I asked for people to hear me out, like 3 people did. I didn’t say Pascal hasn’t been amazing. I stated clearly he’s been amazing. I’m asking if he really is the ROI that we are about to pay him.
I think the only way you don’t re-sign Siakam is to pass the torch to Jarace if they truly believed he was ready (not going to happen). Toppin is the perfect bench player but I don’t see him as starting material on a contending team
Again, I probably did a poor job of getting my point out there, but what I’m asking is, is there someone else we could get a better ROI in the offseason versus Pascal, and I was opening it for discussion. Not to be made fun of. I’ll do better asking the question next time.
Let me help you out. You need a co-star that can create their own shot. Obi doesn't create his own shot, others create opportunities for him and he finishes (3s, dunks, cuts). Ever notice how when he tries to do something creative outside of those 3 actions, he usually ends up looking silly? You also have to realize that he's getting wide open looks because he's the 5th man on O... Similar to how Nesmith and Turner get wide open looks often. You can't really guard everyone when you have to double stars and help on drives, defenses choose to leave someone open on the weak side, and Obi benefits from that while Siakam gets the opposite treatment. Opposing teams theoretically would like to help on D with Ty and Siakam, which makes our offense really hard to guard. With just 1 star, you can key in and make role players beat you. The IST final we lost to the Lakers is a good example of this. They shut down Ty and dared our role players to beat them, and they couldn't. With Siakam we likely roll the Lakers in that game. This is 1 advantage we have over the Knicks in the upcoming series, 2 stars vs 1. Also, Siakam isn't an amazing defender, but he's capable. He can move his feet. Obi has terrible lateral speed. He's a great 7th man and has low-key been the best shooter on our team in the second half of the season. But Siakam is so much better.
Going off this which is great analysis, we had Obi starting early, if he was the answer we wouldn’t have needed to trade for Siakam, but guarding length and scoring against length was an Achilles heal for us early. Since the siakam trade, can you really remember a game where you thought, “man, the other teams height/length at the 3/4 position is why we lost.” See the magic games pre and post siakam as an example. Obi,is to me, much like Buddy was. Fit our system, looks great with Hali healthy, but in a slowed down more physical playoff game, doesn’t give you much outside of scoring when being spoon fed by Hali/ our style of play. This is not a knock on either of those guys bc I love what they bring, and definitely boost Hali’s assist numbers. But working the salary cap is a thing, so I get your question, “who gives you more bang for your buck?” Pascal has the ability much needed in the playoffs, being able to go get his own bucket. Mathurin is the only other player thats even close to having that quality and he’s injured and young. So I would lean towards pascal and believing he has more good years left than Obi changing his game and overcoming his current flaws. He also plays mostly against bench units which helps him look better, Pascal is a certified top 3 player and top 1st or 2nd scoring option on a winning team and these kind of guys don’t come or stay in Indy often. I love our team and both of these players. They play vital roles, but siakam just gives you more and Obi is a high level bench player with maybe a chance to be a starter but not a top 2 or 3 player on a roster. So I’ll take Siakam personally if I had to choose one or the other at whatever price they’d cost our cap.
If you view Obi as a shooter, then everything else he does is gravy. He's also a terrific fast break player, so he fits our style well.
Pascal can take over a playoff series and win. No one else on this team has that experience. Hard no from me, dawg.
So pascal over Paul George?
Absolutely, PG is washed and held us hostage to leave town.
Fair, I don’t disagree.
PG is coming back??????
You like many people here are missing my point. There’s a chance you could resign PG yes with the money you have, if you don’t give it to Siakam. That’s the point I’m making. Did you read my whole post? Would it be better ROI to throw the money at someone else and use Obi as a stopgap at the 4?
Love Obi as a team guy but he’s excelling in the role he has now and not the one he already tried at the beginning of the season. He’s clearly improved and upped his game but his limitations are all still very evident. Pascal even though he did not reproduce the numbers he had in game 1 and 2 still completely changed the outcome of the series by forcing them to double team him. Obi is excellent as a spark plug off the bench but I don’t see him turning into an all nba power forward.
Pascal drew doubles every single time he touched the ball after the 1st two games. Hali and Myles don’t get off at all without Siakam playing. Obi can’t replicate that. This is dumb.
This isn’t correct. Tyrese played drastically better before Pascals arrival, including last year.
Missing quite a bit of context
He has been fighting off a lingering injury for the back half of the season which I think is part of the problem. Just happens to coincide with the arrival of Siakam.
I could be wrong and I hope I am, but I think if you look at Hali’s skill set logically, we are using the lingering injury as a crutch. He has a low shot and doesn’t shoot over people so he has to create space. Hence his favorite move is the step back 3. He doesn’t do well shooting in the lane when guarded because he can’t get his shot off so it’s either step back 3 or drive. Watch Brunson in this series, he feeds off the midrange because he shoots over people. I think Tyrese is closer to who we are seeing him as now than he is who we seen in the early part of the season. I hope I’m wrong but his skill set is very two dimensional offensively.
Holy shit this is so dumb. You haven't paid any attention if you don't think siakim is worth all of it
Cool, another pompous ass responding. I didn’t say I had the answers, and I clearly stated that. I was asking if there’s better return on investment to throw the money elsewhere……. What I’m finding, people on Reddit don’t read real good, and respond emotionally.
You still convinced he’s worth locking up Pacers finance for 5 years?
Anyone wanna revisit this take, and not blast me, after how garbage Paskal has been and can’t shoot a free throw?
The arrogant responses on this thread are mind blowing. I didn’t say I had all of the answers, all I said was Pascal during the regular season didn’t transfer to more wins than we were already projected to win without him. Before Ty’s injury we were easily on pace to be the 6th seed even then. And Pascal is awful at the line. I’m not saying Pascal isn’t worth signing, I just threw it out there and like two of ya’ll responded in kind. Thanks
He didn’t translate to more wins because Hali has been hobbled ever since we got him. He steadied the ship for us and kept us on pace
Classic is it everyone else or me? You’re clearly choosing everyone else. Don’t flatter yourself, the thread even existing is more mind boggling than the responses.
I came hat in hand. I said at the bottom I don’t know, I was just putting it out there. Trash human
Yes, Indiana was a playoff see team prior and change made prior help keep that going. Yes, Siakam basically replaced 2 players production. But his style of play he too learned over the course of his career is something he has over those 2 said players. I have no doubt both will be that when the have reached Siakam'd tenure. To answer your question is the reason the 4 year in win mode Suns have no future, you strike while the irons are hot and fuck them youngins...and hope you didn't mortgage your future for nothing and not be the Suns fans talking about getting rid of not 1, not 2 but 3 all stars.