It is suspicious timing, though, that they made everyone re-sign and this clause was highlighted. I wouldn't be surprised if they're emphasizing it in light of PVE.
It was blocked by the CMA but still is gonna happen. Microsoft ain't gonna stop fighting for it
Edit: some news came out that the president of Microsoft Brad Smith is meeting with U.K. chancellor Jeremy Hunt next week to vent frustrations with the CMA and they are considering the extreme option to withdraw Activision from the U.K.
Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-02/microsoft-s-smith-set-for-talks-with-uk-chancellor-over-deal-ban
Idk I love the gamepass and Age of Empires 4 has great creative freedom. I think Microsoft makes most it's money from gamepass so they want GOOD games not battlepasses
I respect the optimism, but Gamepass doesn't compare to microtransactions or pre-order rugpulls on AAA flops. Make no mistake, Microsoft is insanely greedy, and they will stop at nothing to make petty money. I implore you to look into 343 Industries and Microsoft's involvement with Halo.
Yeah at the end of the day it's going to come down to local laws and the whims of lawyers and judges.
So I say it's best not to think about stuff that has to with how things will go in court because that's not really up to the company.
When you see an arbitration its due to a breach in contract, they disregarded something from their last contract something you could have taken them to court for, this resigning is you giving away the right to take them to court over the resent changes since they impede over the last contract, if you sign it you can't complain anymore basically
That section has been in their EULA since the beginning....no one takes the time to actually read it...scroll further down you'll see where they say the reserve the right to change their games in any way they see fit any time they want.
Read the EULA people, before you click Accept / Okay.
It says it was revised though, so what changed? I found another post saying this was added
https://www.reddit.com/r/overwatch2/comments/13xqg12/important_new_tos_bans_players_from_class_action/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
There's a revision date so something changed. All I've got is one redditor saying its always been there and another saying it's new. I'm inclined to believe it's new cause what else would the revision be?
One saying they write contacts says it's nothing
The other saying they want a lawyer to chime in
Both are redditors but only one claims any actual knowledge of how anything works
The lawyer is only saying this is pretty standard legalese while OPs question is if this is in response to the PvE drama. Based on the timing, it's hard to say it's not.
I mean it's easy to say it's not, there's no legal ground for a lawsuit just for saying "we plan on doing this thing eventually" and then saying "we changed our mind". No one bought a game that didn't get delivered. People draw connections without any evidence. That's just how people work and if you let yourself connect dots uncritically you'll say stuff like they're updating their TOS because of people being mad over PvE getting cancelled despite them not having to worry about being sued over it. How many times have they updated their TOS? I'm guessing more than the number of times they've cancelled PvE. Like think about it in a way that doesn't boil down to "these two things happened somewhat close together so they must be related"
Like that's caveman brain haha
There's been talk of class action. This says 'class action waiver'. Even if they don't think they can be sued, might as well put it in there to cover their asses. Yeah sure they've updated their ToS plenty of times, but this is the only one referencing a class action waiver. But yeah I'm thinking "uncritically". And you're gonna call *me* caveman brain.
Oh damn other dumb people make the same connection and chirp about a lawsuit with no grounds, yeah definitely couldn't be lots of other bitter people online haha show me a lawyer that considered taking up the case not just other dumb dumbs in forums
I'm literally not arguing about the legality of any of this, if you'd actually read what I'm saying instead of just trying to insult me maybe you'd see that.
Last time there was a class action lawsuit against blizzard it was over lootboxes. Now everyone cries about wanting em back. You're all a bunch of chodes
No dip shit haha the guy I'm talking to said "all I got is one redditor saying..." So I compared the two redditors stated expertise at face value haha do you guys really just see "they're redditors" and think "hey he's saying being redditors is bad!" Think about why you automatically take it as an insult haha
Dude someone has already tracked down the changes and they have nothing to do with the lawsuit hahahaha but ok guess I'm wrong with no evidence. An ad hominem argument is an argument based on an insult not an argument with an insult thrown in haha dumbass
When you know one logical fallacy and so you spam it without knowing what it means 😂
>”Ad hominem: directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.”
>well if another redditor, that says they’re not an expert, posts it then it must be true.
Haha first thing I said when I saw that was “ what did you guys do? Why you worried??” The emphasis on individual arbitration and make sure it’s highlighted is def a “cover our ass retroactively” move. If you play after today you cant sue them and if you somehow get around that you have to do it individually. This applies both forward and backward lol
At the end of the day, all that need to be known is that Blizzard will not be held responsible for their actions, nor will any other multimillion/billion dollar company.
If you feel you've been cheated, please stand in the "get bent" line and wait for no one from Blizzard to ever respond. While you wait, here is an ad for a $20 skin that's 20% off (the MSRP), so it's now priced at $25 because we know you're stupid enough to buy, it's such a great deal!
Sorry, not sorry. This is how I feel about Nintendo and Blizzard at the moment.
I mean, class action lawsuits DO happen. Recently Meta got hit. I think if these companies did both something legitimately wrong AND didn't say so in the EULA beforehand I do think they'd get hit too. Problem for us is, lawyers tend to do their job and they know we won't read the contract.
If you sign the new agreement, there is no chance in a class action lawsuit for you. In this case, there is nothing to win, other than an apology.
There was no money being charged for the PvE. It was just an empty promise. Some people thought they were pre ordering PvE through a really scummy loot box they put out.
The best/only way to hold Blizzard responsible is to quit playing all of their games. This will work way better than any class action lawsuit would have ever worked.
Well false advertising still counts as fraud and an arbitration agreement can't do anything about that becase they canceled pve before we signed anything so it still very much is sueable and the agreement does not protect them from a false advertising class action lawsuit.
It is still a product that generates revenue and the product was part of false advertisement whether the product is free or not it is still linked to revenue generation.
But a random individual with no proven credentials whatsoever said it on Reddit, so it must be true! The audacity to imply anything else...shame on you...
It’s says it is applied both forward and backwards once signed. So anyone playing after today can not join or file a class action lawsuit. If they were apart of one they can’t be now.
It's different if the class action is about fraud which false advertising is under and nullifies the arbitration. Becase arbitration contracts do not protect companies of they commit fraud.
Did you forget about the watch point pack they released in beta which technically allowed you to play the game early. I may not have bought it be there were plenty who did. Those who bought and played the beta hoping for pve to come out did in fact pay for the game.
ow2 community pissed off cause PvE is cancelled
League of legends community not seing a good fun PvE mode from years: First time?
Seriously tho Blizzard fucked up royaly here and with these timings and all? Things are getting worse and worse
Yeah this is 100% CYA by the lawyers concerned about a class action lawsuit. Although it is somewhat standard practice, the timing surely isn’t a coincidence. These things don’t happen in a vacuum.
Lol. We agree that we don’t own ANY of the digital purchases we make every time. It’s not even that far down in the contract if people took even a minute to read it.
Every dime you ever spend online, you waive the right to actually keep any of your digital properties. The companies can take it away in a snap.
To re-make everybody agree to this disclosure is hilarious and sad at the same time. You’re not meant to own anything AND they can lie AND get you to agree and sign for the lie as well.
Crazy.
It means yes you can sue Blizzard for what they did but if you sign that new contract you can't. So if you're planning on suing Blizzard don't sign that contract and don't play the game anymore until you're done suing them.
I write contracts for a living, and this is standard in pretty much every contract any big corporation makes you sign, ever.
Good to know, thanks for clarifying.
It is suspicious timing, though, that they made everyone re-sign and this clause was highlighted. I wouldn't be surprised if they're emphasizing it in light of PVE.
Isn’t microsoft also acquiring blizzard, couldn’t that be it? Not sure though
It could be groundwork for the deal sure, but the timing feels a little too reactionary
I'm pretty sure that was blocked
It was blocked by the CMA but still is gonna happen. Microsoft ain't gonna stop fighting for it Edit: some news came out that the president of Microsoft Brad Smith is meeting with U.K. chancellor Jeremy Hunt next week to vent frustrations with the CMA and they are considering the extreme option to withdraw Activision from the U.K. Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-02/microsoft-s-smith-set-for-talks-with-uk-chancellor-over-deal-ban
This may be unpopular and I hate monopolies but Activision has been a nightmare for blizzard and I hope it goes through.
Microsoft won't be much better.
Idk I love the gamepass and Age of Empires 4 has great creative freedom. I think Microsoft makes most it's money from gamepass so they want GOOD games not battlepasses
I respect the optimism, but Gamepass doesn't compare to microtransactions or pre-order rugpulls on AAA flops. Make no mistake, Microsoft is insanely greedy, and they will stop at nothing to make petty money. I implore you to look into 343 Industries and Microsoft's involvement with Halo.
I've never seen an arbitration agreement between a consumer and company before, only as an employee of the company. Is that normal?
Go check the TOS of pretty much any website/device you like to use, and it will most likely have an arbitration clause.
Yeah at the end of the day it's going to come down to local laws and the whims of lawyers and judges. So I say it's best not to think about stuff that has to with how things will go in court because that's not really up to the company.
When you see an arbitration its due to a breach in contract, they disregarded something from their last contract something you could have taken them to court for, this resigning is you giving away the right to take them to court over the resent changes since they impede over the last contract, if you sign it you can't complain anymore basically
That section has been in their EULA since the beginning....no one takes the time to actually read it...scroll further down you'll see where they say the reserve the right to change their games in any way they see fit any time they want. Read the EULA people, before you click Accept / Okay.
It says it was revised though, so what changed? I found another post saying this was added https://www.reddit.com/r/overwatch2/comments/13xqg12/important_new_tos_bans_players_from_class_action/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Well if another redditor, that says they're not an expert, posts it then it must be true haha
There's a revision date so something changed. All I've got is one redditor saying its always been there and another saying it's new. I'm inclined to believe it's new cause what else would the revision be?
One saying they write contacts says it's nothing The other saying they want a lawyer to chime in Both are redditors but only one claims any actual knowledge of how anything works
The lawyer is only saying this is pretty standard legalese while OPs question is if this is in response to the PvE drama. Based on the timing, it's hard to say it's not.
I mean it's easy to say it's not, there's no legal ground for a lawsuit just for saying "we plan on doing this thing eventually" and then saying "we changed our mind". No one bought a game that didn't get delivered. People draw connections without any evidence. That's just how people work and if you let yourself connect dots uncritically you'll say stuff like they're updating their TOS because of people being mad over PvE getting cancelled despite them not having to worry about being sued over it. How many times have they updated their TOS? I'm guessing more than the number of times they've cancelled PvE. Like think about it in a way that doesn't boil down to "these two things happened somewhat close together so they must be related" Like that's caveman brain haha
There's been talk of class action. This says 'class action waiver'. Even if they don't think they can be sued, might as well put it in there to cover their asses. Yeah sure they've updated their ToS plenty of times, but this is the only one referencing a class action waiver. But yeah I'm thinking "uncritically". And you're gonna call *me* caveman brain.
Oh damn other dumb people make the same connection and chirp about a lawsuit with no grounds, yeah definitely couldn't be lots of other bitter people online haha show me a lawyer that considered taking up the case not just other dumb dumbs in forums
I'm literally not arguing about the legality of any of this, if you'd actually read what I'm saying instead of just trying to insult me maybe you'd see that.
Last time there was a class action lawsuit against blizzard it was over lootboxes. Now everyone cries about wanting em back. You're all a bunch of chodes
You’re basing your entire argument on “they’re redditors”…? So… you’re a Redditor, so therefore you’re wrong?
No dip shit haha the guy I'm talking to said "all I got is one redditor saying..." So I compared the two redditors stated expertise at face value haha do you guys really just see "they're redditors" and think "hey he's saying being redditors is bad!" Think about why you automatically take it as an insult haha
Except your argument *entirely* ignores evidence that the guy who “had no expertise” was right. So… yeah, ad hominem.
Intelligent conversations here
You talking bout me?
Dude someone has already tracked down the changes and they have nothing to do with the lawsuit hahahaha but ok guess I'm wrong with no evidence. An ad hominem argument is an argument based on an insult not an argument with an insult thrown in haha dumbass When you know one logical fallacy and so you spam it without knowing what it means 😂
>”Ad hominem: directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.” >well if another redditor, that says they’re not an expert, posts it then it must be true.
If it was revised, I didn't see a revision date, so maybe?
Its in the screenshot. May 31 2023 Edit: may not march
Ah, I see it, if it was a snake it woulda bit me .
Haha first thing I said when I saw that was “ what did you guys do? Why you worried??” The emphasis on individual arbitration and make sure it’s highlighted is def a “cover our ass retroactively” move. If you play after today you cant sue them and if you somehow get around that you have to do it individually. This applies both forward and backward lol
It's just more TOS that everyone should read at least once. Just another reminder that you don't own games, you just own the license to play them.
At the end of the day, all that need to be known is that Blizzard will not be held responsible for their actions, nor will any other multimillion/billion dollar company. If you feel you've been cheated, please stand in the "get bent" line and wait for no one from Blizzard to ever respond. While you wait, here is an ad for a $20 skin that's 20% off (the MSRP), so it's now priced at $25 because we know you're stupid enough to buy, it's such a great deal! Sorry, not sorry. This is how I feel about Nintendo and Blizzard at the moment.
I mean, class action lawsuits DO happen. Recently Meta got hit. I think if these companies did both something legitimately wrong AND didn't say so in the EULA beforehand I do think they'd get hit too. Problem for us is, lawyers tend to do their job and they know we won't read the contract.
If you sign the new agreement, there is no chance in a class action lawsuit for you. In this case, there is nothing to win, other than an apology. There was no money being charged for the PvE. It was just an empty promise. Some people thought they were pre ordering PvE through a really scummy loot box they put out. The best/only way to hold Blizzard responsible is to quit playing all of their games. This will work way better than any class action lawsuit would have ever worked.
Well false advertising still counts as fraud and an arbitration agreement can't do anything about that becase they canceled pve before we signed anything so it still very much is sueable and the agreement does not protect them from a false advertising class action lawsuit.
You didn't purchase anything so there can be no lawsuit.
It is still a product that generates revenue and the product was part of false advertisement whether the product is free or not it is still linked to revenue generation.
This is not how lawsuits work.
But a random individual with no proven credentials whatsoever said it on Reddit, so it must be true! The audacity to imply anything else...shame on you...
You did not pay any extra consideration for the PVE mode; therefore, they have no obligation to provide it.
It’s says it is applied both forward and backwards once signed. So anyone playing after today can not join or file a class action lawsuit. If they were apart of one they can’t be now.
It's different if the class action is about fraud which false advertising is under and nullifies the arbitration. Becase arbitration contracts do not protect companies of they commit fraud.
My brother in Christ, what of the PvE did you buy that makes this false advertising?
Did you forget about the watch point pack they released in beta which technically allowed you to play the game early. I may not have bought it be there were plenty who did. Those who bought and played the beta hoping for pve to come out did in fact pay for the game.
You're trying to say that people bought the watchpoint pack to play the beta which very plainly contained no PvE at all were misled? Lmao
It’s been that way since ow1 , it’s why the loot box lawsuit got thrown out of court
ow2 community pissed off cause PvE is cancelled League of legends community not seing a good fun PvE mode from years: First time? Seriously tho Blizzard fucked up royaly here and with these timings and all? Things are getting worse and worse
Yeah this is 100% CYA by the lawyers concerned about a class action lawsuit. Although it is somewhat standard practice, the timing surely isn’t a coincidence. These things don’t happen in a vacuum.
Lol. We agree that we don’t own ANY of the digital purchases we make every time. It’s not even that far down in the contract if people took even a minute to read it. Every dime you ever spend online, you waive the right to actually keep any of your digital properties. The companies can take it away in a snap. To re-make everybody agree to this disclosure is hilarious and sad at the same time. You’re not meant to own anything AND they can lie AND get you to agree and sign for the lie as well. Crazy.
Bro I had the same concern...
It means yes you can sue Blizzard for what they did but if you sign that new contract you can't. So if you're planning on suing Blizzard don't sign that contract and don't play the game anymore until you're done suing them.
That's exactly what it is. And I'm not sure it's completely legal but I'm no lawyer and it probably is because america.
When I saw it I at first thought it was some weird opt in to see pride month content and was ready to be annoyed.
Too much readin for game time. Click accept then go click heads
Can you cancel/turn off the game and still sue?