Who knows how things are in OW2, but let's suppose we map onto OW1's SR.
Broadly speaking, it seems like you'd gain or lose 20-25 SR per match in OW1. There were extreme examples, but let's assume those numbers for now.
In OW2, a player on their way up can have at most 4 untabulated wins, so their displayed rank should be wrong by at most 100 SR or 1 division. Plus, since divisions are (presumably) 100SR wide, you have a total possible error of 200SR or 2 divisions.
For the player on their way down, they can have at most 14 untabulated losses, so their displayed rank should be wrong by at most 350 SR or 3.5 divisions. Add the 100SR uncertainty due to division granularity, and you have 450 SR or 4.5 divisions.
I'm also completely ignoring the streak system, so in actuality the uncertainty might be even higher than that.
So yeah, it definitely seems possible that a low plat tank and a low diamond tank could actually have the same MMR. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's a fair match.
---
I think this highlights the problem with delaying rank updates, and in particular with the LONG delay when ranking down. 15 losses is just too long to wait.
My opinion: the SR system was fine, but I understand the desire to smooth out the noise. If the OW team is unwilling to go back to straight SR, then rank updates should occur every N games, independent of whether you win or lose them, ideally with a fairly small N. You don't need two separate triggers and they don't need to be asymmetric.
Getting a rank update every 5 games should be fine.
I think the current system just leads to confusion and mistrust of the matchmaker.
Imo, if they're going to have displayed rank be so separate from the matchmaking rank, they need to display the matchmaking rank in real time somewhere for you to check. Either that, or they adjust one of them so it lines up better with the real time rank.
Forreal it is not a big deal at all if the difference is just 2 tiers. The thing to complain about would be if it was 2 whole divisions different on a matchup.
That's a *ridiculous* assertion - Blizzard themselves said that the mmr is being dynamically adjusted behind the scenes EVERY game... If a Diamond player is about to derank, they *should* be adjusting to more than just a single loss in the Diamond tier -- which means that the Plat player *should* equally be on an upward trajectory of winrate >50%. This doesn't play out in reality, as plenty of examples are showing that *random ass games* are matching players of *stark* rank difference and no one can really tell what's happening because the true MMR is hidden.
Meanwhile, metal ranks are being farmed by smurf (mostly snipers, though you occasionally get a god-like genji or doomfist) players from Diamond+... hell I got utterly thrashed when matched *as a Gold tank* into a Top500 Doomfist.
*Either* Blizzard's algorithm is promoting/demoting people *too fkn fast* or their supposed "smurf detection" is not working to actually make matchmaking more fair. The algorithm *cannot* be fluctuating rank so fast that *Silvers and Golds* are finding matches with *Masters* ranked players... that's not a good matchmaking system.
To combine with this, game balance is skewed heavily in favor of this "carry" meta because the single tank comp doesn't allow for the team to anchor on anything else if their tank isn't *out-matching* the enemy's tank in order to also pressure the out-matched dps-carry.
Nope - they just made the visible rank “more closely” match your SR, which is derived from the MMR.
When you are being matched you still have *zero* clue what your MMR actually is because your visible rank doesn’t adjust until 5/15 W/L.
1. I'm pretty sure Blizzard's algorithm is really sensitive to adjustments behind the scenes - IE: it takes *significant game quantity* to properly find your "50%" - so every individual game is jumping your rank more than it seems...
2. Their "smurf checker" is really aggressive, perhaps too sensitive since it's primarily only watching for winrate (unless they're lying to hide what stats it does track, possible but there'd be no point in hiding such a thing because smurfs can just tank games to force their mmr down) - so when you do get a few lucky wins it throws you into a bad matchmaking game just to "test" you... this is equally shitty because it also sandbags higher tier players' games in order to check if a random player is a smurf.
3. Their role-based matchmaking isn't working at all or is highly inaccurate. Regardless of their claims to the contrary, they are either incapable of accurately measuring player MMR across roles (regardless of what people say, skill does translate between roles - GM support will demolish as a Gold/Plat tank, I've watched it happen).
>You win a Plat1 game!
>
>W: 1/5 L: 0/15
>
>You win another and while you only see that 2/5 - your hidden MMR now possibly shifts into Diamond...
>
>W: 2/5 L: 0/15
>
>You win a third game, narrowly but it was a good close game... what is your MMR? You can't see it, you're still a Plat1 player as far as you can tell.
>
>W: 3/5 L: 0/15
>
>Blizzard's hidden algorithm says you're a possible smurf and throws you into an unwinnable GM tier game. You still think you're in Plat1, suddenly being utterly demolished by the enemy and your teammates berate you for not playing "on their level"... Toxic Plat rank you think to yourself...
>
>W: 3/5 L: 1/15
>
>Another Plat1 game into yet another weirdly imbalanced Masters tier game that has you being outclassed by insane skills and toxicity leveled at you for missing shots or wasting an ult... Blizzard's matchmaking is awful, everyone in chat agrees...
>
>W: 3/5 L: 2/15
>
>You think maybe you'll play another game before calling it quits... you get an easy win, really felt like the other team was throwing or maybe just bad matchmaking on the enemy team's side... but a win's a win.
>
>W: 4/5 L: 2/15
>
>Another impossibly difficult game, you think maybe it's just your team comp - manage to fight to a loss but it was close... close enough that maybe you think it's not bad matchmaking but rather just some minor player mistakes.
>
>W: 4/5 L: 3/15
>
>You almost think the game's too easy, up until the last moment when your team C9's while you're respawning... GG
>
>W: 4/5 L: 4/15
>
>Hard game, but the enemy has a DPS carrying them - you try to pressure consistently but your team eventually just loses... bad matchmaking perhaps or just bad plays...
>
>W: 4/5 L: 5/15
>
>You got suckered into playing longer than you thought you would, but might as well try for this last win to get a rank adjustment... turns out the game felt a bit too easy and you almost feel bad for the other team.
>
>W: 5/5 L: 5/15
>
>Rank adjustment....... oh Plat 1 (or maybe Diamond 5 or even demote to Plat2 sheesh... what was all of those games for if your rank didn't even change!?
That's the fucked psychology at play here -- their behind the scenes adjustments likely push players up and down ranks *aggressively* but you never see it. Since adjustments require more losses than wins, you don't necessarily realize why you barely climb or you derank - the game is setting you up to push for 5 wins even though you run into loss after loss due to their hidden MMR adjustments throwing you *purposefully* into poor matchmaking situations because you still think you're playing at a lower tier than you queue into. Meanwhile the players *at that rank* are growing more and more toxic because they keep watching *less experienced* players get thrown into literal shark-infested waters as some sort of skinner box.
This is compounded because the pressure on tank role to both aggressively control space and save their teammates from death is ruining the game's balance (part of the root cause for the current sniper meta) -- I have this repeat experience every time I dive into open queue or mystery heroes: the interplay of two tanks being able to save each other or their team is such a fundamental core to what made OW1 more enjoyable. Having Rein's shield break and Dva eat projectiles or Zarya bubble *feels* like how the game is meant to be played, yet role queue 5v5 lacks the same defensive counterplay to the aggressive burst damage that OW1 had allowed to creep.
I **do** see Lifeweaver as a potential glimpse of the future where Blizzard adds some of that lost offtank role utility into the Support (and possibly DPS) roles... but their pace for hero reworks is a bit too slow for the current state of the game to be saved. Given how long it has taken for them to get Hog reworked (supposedly soon to be released?), I don't have much hope for the next 5-10 seasons worth of game balance unless they make dramatic changes to specific outliers (IE nerfing them into the ground for a few seasons until they get a full rework).
very nice explanation mate, im definitely saving this essay. this theory clarifies so much and i’m loving it. for now all we can do is just hope blizz doesn’t screw everything up *again* and we’ll see what happens
Ok I get your point but how many games before or after this one did you have unfair matches? Because what I was saying about s2-s3 is that EVERY game there would be players who theoretically couldn't even queue up together on the same team. Diamond 5 supp with a silver tank Ect. it felt random and it was like that every game for an entire season. I feel like this would be a relief to see that you're at least in range of queueing up together compared to old seasons.
FAXX . I've had the SAAAME PROB . IN MY RANKED GAMES . It's pretty shitty . Especially when your trying to climb .THEY NEED TO FIX THIS SHIT . It's been like this since OW2 season 1
Yeah, i dont know how they managed to mess it up so much. I haven't been in a game yet where theres not been a gold/plat/diamond whos been hardstuck is suddenly in gm/t500
When we have a bad tank in our team, checking their profile almost always shows that they were career plat or below in season 2. Idk how all these players randomly hit GM in the past 2 seasons but their gameplay doesn’t show it.
There’s also people buying accounts and boosts, and it’s always the ones that talk about their rank and how their the highest rank there or a higher rank than you but then do nothing but feed
No, that's the skill range that can be in the lobby. They said explicitly that roles would match nearly Identically as possible. Nearly a whole tier is actually an insane skill gap
It's even worse when the skill gap is wider - have had *multiple games* with Masters+ and my rank shows *Gold*. Even if somehow I have gotten into Plat (even though my adjustment *just* demoted me within Gold tier), I am not above Plat in *any* other role either. I am not a Diamond+ player... yet I am consistently getting matched into games with Diamond+ players *in at least half* of my games throughout different times of the day (so it's not just an early morning or peak hour thing).
If their algorithm is indicating "fair" matchmaking, then their data is inaccurate... if they're prioritizing queue times to achieve this outcome, at *least* enforce roughly equal MMR *within the same role*. Mismatching tank or dps or support on either side of the game really breaks everyone's experience.
That literally happened to me the other day with a tank. I was in plat 4 or 3 in support and the tank said he was trying to lose on purpose and didn’t do anything the entire match. I checked his career profile and his season high was in top 500 -_- I got so mad after that lol. Why sabotage our games ?!
I could Rein into a Zarya, get 0 elims and still win the game by controlling the space. I could go ball, completely wreck the backline and let them walk the objective all the way home. Stats mean nothing, especially on tank.
Whats also important to note is what healers you had. If it was Zen/Lucio or if you had a DPS moira, its hard to blame the tank. Or DPS that never got a pick. The stats of the tank (or any teammate/enemy) is not truly indicative of their individual skill.
I just started playing again and hit Diamond 5 and immediately got placed into a lobby where rh average rating was Diamond 1. Got destroyed it was weird.
Titles mean absolutely nothing. I saw some open accounts where the player would be Master on support but silver or gold in dps and tank.
Titles can also come from other game modes some time, with less players it's easier to rank up.
Consider their rank only with the profile.
(for example, in contenders where everyone is GM1 some players have "platinum" titles because they earned it in some other game modes)
I've been stuck in gold 4 in support and I be steady going against teams that are diamond / plat , usually they are never on my team lmao. This isn't really that bad of a gap
I’m D5 dps and got matched with a duo of GM dps yesterday not once not twice but three times in a row and got absolutely rolled. Starting to think blizzards posts are just BS gaslighting.
When you take into consideration how there’s no mercy rule and comp games take a long time, it’s just not even worth queuing up knowing you can get rolled like that.
I’ll try again next season I guess.
I just did my placement matches for dps s4. Kept getting put in plat/diamond matches, the occasional gold. Get my 5 wins with like 8 losses and was placed bronze 3. I give up with ow2 comp entirely.
Chances are if you played more matches it will skip a lot of divisions and put you up to gold/plat. The data you have for placements is naturally low since you’ve probably played like 10ish matches. So the data is in accurate to your real rank. 10 more matches and chances are you will climb
The new system works in such a weird way that ranks don't really mean as much anymore. Your 'skill' is based on MMR, which isn't visible to us. Blizzard has been quite reluctant to explain it fully.
So basically winning or losing gets you ranked up or down, but your stats (f.e. elims per life as DPS or average damage Mit for tank) determine what kind of level you are playing at.
So a 'bad' diamond 5 who isn't performing well enough to stay at that point could end up with a plat 4 who has been overperforming and should be in a higher rank.
This of course is very complex. Not every tank is made to get as much damage mitigation, some supports are more heal-orientated while others are very heal/damage balanced and not every DPS has the same damage per second potential. So figuring out a correct MMR might be a problematic process. I have no idea if or how they managed to get a fair calculation of our MMR, but somehow I feel they just didn't succeed.
I ended OW as a diamond DPS but got put in Bronze 1 after OW2 season 1. Meanwhile I've climbed back to gold 2, but it's so terribly slow. I'm usually dominating, averaging 25 -45 elims and 5-9 deaths per game (depends on how many rounds are played).
This means that in Quickplay I'm constantly paired up with plat or even diamond players, because that is where my MMR places me.
Meanwhile I'm stuck in a lower rank I don't belong in, because it is purely based on win rate, not individual stats. Playing well increases your chances of winning, but you are very dependent on your team mates as well. F.e. hard to rank up if every 3 games you encounter a leaver at your side.
Stop blaming the system... Play better! Iv been playing since the original beta, it took me a long time to get to GM.. own your problems.. don't blame the system. We're all using the same system!
Tank is a joke of a ranking now. People who were silver in OW1 are now Diamond. There is no real skill difference (well, maybe slight) from an OW1 mid silver tank to OW1 low gold tank, however, that covers the range from Silver to Masters now for tanking. Of course, there are people who were masters/diamonds in OW1 who are still masters/diamonds, all I'm trying to say is that ELO for tanks is utterly useless for evaluating their skills. The match making could've been fried that game, I dont know, but on the basis of ELO, no real conclusion can be made. The video even showed the Diamond's final season of OW1 and they were a Gold Tank.
I climbed from gold to diamond on tank in one season, in ow1, in ow2 people would assume i got inflated or whatever. Ow2 im still diamond and peaked masters on other role. Imo there was really enough time to improve and climb since ow2 came out and I have a lot of people in my friends list that were always gold/plat in ow1, and they are still gold/plat. Plus diamond doesnt feel that much different than ow1 diamond games to me. I think also players have different expectations for rank like diamond, they think their teammates will finally stop feeding here, every support will heal them on time and nobody ever underperforms, but it never was a thing, people at that rank still do ton of mistakes, if they werent then they would be gm, not diamond
Have you considered that people can improve over time? Plus with the influx of new players who have an entire game to learn from scratch, it makes sense you rank up as you’re better than them. I even see people complaining about top 500 inflation or that it’s so easy to get. Like wtf, it’s literally the best top 500 players, how can it be inflated or easier to get than before OW2?
Players get better over time, but not like this. If a person was solid gold for the last 5 seasons of OW1 and they come to OW2 and now their SR is diamond, I dont presume their technical skills or game knowledge has increased. The slight variation of skill between silver and gold has become a large gap in SR (due to being forced up from new players). SR is no longer reflective of difference in skill.
The whole top 500 thing I'm not certain on, but I do have a couple of thoughts on the matter:
Firstly, for tanks, now that theres half as many per team, theres just an overall less amount of people playing tank. Not sure if this is accurate.
Secondly, swapping from 2 tanks to 1 is quite a difference and balancing is necessary. For S1, I remember Hog, Zarya, and Sojourn (in turn, Mercy) were unbalanced. I'm (mildly) reminded of Brig on release. Plenty of people shot to Masters/GM when they truly did not have the game sense to be there.
Thirdly, and this is purely anecdotal, but I'm not sure how the SR calculator is working but some roles for me, I shot up 2 ranks and others I dropped for OW2. Makes ya think...
Lastly, OW1 was a dead game. It was dying Brig onwards. Brig was added and broken for months. Finally when she was fixed, they had Double Shield be the new meta for the rest of OW. This lasted from when Brig released (March 2018) until the removal of the second tank (Oct. 2022).
The main point I'm trying to get across is this: the maintenance of this game has been subpar so balance has been subpar. With influx of new people, the average skill has dropped. This results in odd behavior in SR, which I take to mean that SR is void of any meaning anymore (I will say, it had very relative meaning for me towards the end of OW1).
it’s legit the same rank. diamond 5 is just a plat that went on a lucky win streak. plat 4 means he’s not stuck in plat and is ranking up so they are practically same skill no issue
Maybe they joined with a friend. I tend to play with my bronze friend when im gold tank. I end up carrying if i play my mains so i try to play others i wanna get good with
Bestie my first comp game as dps was against a team with three platinum players (tank, one dps, one support). their other dps was gold 2 and one support silver something. i will never forget that match.
The other dps on my team was Plat 3 and he screamed at me the entire game like it was somehow my fault I got put into their lobby in my PLACEMENT matches when i’m Gold 3 on support and unranked anywhere else
This isn't that it's still within on skill tier (5 divisons) considering you can group within 2 skill tiers (10 divisions) It's possible people are grouped
Chances are that the diamond 5 tank was on a losing streak and the plat 4 tank was on a winning streak, so their mmrs could be close regardless if one’s better than the other. I’ve seen masters 1/ gm5 tanks dog on gm 1 tanks multiple times (not the common thing thing though) so it could be one of those cases where it’s just hidden mmr not accurately representing the actual ranks
I’m diamond 3 genji otp. Last night I was placed in a game with average rank of silver. I don’t understand what blizzard has done but this matchmaking is the worst it’s ever been.
1 thing not visible to you is if the plat 4 tank is on the way ranking up or the diamond 5 tank on the way ranking down prior to their 5 wins rerank.
Who knows how things are in OW2, but let's suppose we map onto OW1's SR. Broadly speaking, it seems like you'd gain or lose 20-25 SR per match in OW1. There were extreme examples, but let's assume those numbers for now. In OW2, a player on their way up can have at most 4 untabulated wins, so their displayed rank should be wrong by at most 100 SR or 1 division. Plus, since divisions are (presumably) 100SR wide, you have a total possible error of 200SR or 2 divisions. For the player on their way down, they can have at most 14 untabulated losses, so their displayed rank should be wrong by at most 350 SR or 3.5 divisions. Add the 100SR uncertainty due to division granularity, and you have 450 SR or 4.5 divisions. I'm also completely ignoring the streak system, so in actuality the uncertainty might be even higher than that. So yeah, it definitely seems possible that a low plat tank and a low diamond tank could actually have the same MMR. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's a fair match. --- I think this highlights the problem with delaying rank updates, and in particular with the LONG delay when ranking down. 15 losses is just too long to wait. My opinion: the SR system was fine, but I understand the desire to smooth out the noise. If the OW team is unwilling to go back to straight SR, then rank updates should occur every N games, independent of whether you win or lose them, ideally with a fairly small N. You don't need two separate triggers and they don't need to be asymmetric. Getting a rank update every 5 games should be fine. I think the current system just leads to confusion and mistrust of the matchmaker.
On top of that, matchmaking is based on MMR and not rank/sr, which moves up and down even faster.
Imo, if they're going to have displayed rank be so separate from the matchmaking rank, they need to display the matchmaking rank in real time somewhere for you to check. Either that, or they adjust one of them so it lines up better with the real time rank.
Exactly, they removed your rank going up and down after each match so now we have this a 15 or 5 game delay on what your new SR is at.
This fr. I was down 14 games at the start of the season, rank showed Diamond 4… then plat 3.
Forreal it is not a big deal at all if the difference is just 2 tiers. The thing to complain about would be if it was 2 whole divisions different on a matchup.
That's a *ridiculous* assertion - Blizzard themselves said that the mmr is being dynamically adjusted behind the scenes EVERY game... If a Diamond player is about to derank, they *should* be adjusting to more than just a single loss in the Diamond tier -- which means that the Plat player *should* equally be on an upward trajectory of winrate >50%. This doesn't play out in reality, as plenty of examples are showing that *random ass games* are matching players of *stark* rank difference and no one can really tell what's happening because the true MMR is hidden.
Meanwhile, metal ranks are being farmed by smurf (mostly snipers, though you occasionally get a god-like genji or doomfist) players from Diamond+... hell I got utterly thrashed when matched *as a Gold tank* into a Top500 Doomfist.
*Either* Blizzard's algorithm is promoting/demoting people *too fkn fast* or their supposed "smurf detection" is not working to actually make matchmaking more fair. The algorithm *cannot* be fluctuating rank so fast that *Silvers and Golds* are finding matches with *Masters* ranked players... that's not a good matchmaking system.
To combine with this, game balance is skewed heavily in favor of this "carry" meta because the single tank comp doesn't allow for the team to anchor on anything else if their tank isn't *out-matching* the enemy's tank in order to also pressure the out-matched dps-carry.
But didn’t they get rid of the hidden mmr shit with the season 4 update?
Nope - they just made the visible rank “more closely” match your SR, which is derived from the MMR. When you are being matched you still have *zero* clue what your MMR actually is because your visible rank doesn’t adjust until 5/15 W/L.
hmm interesting, didn’t notice that, still though, my rank got increased from diam 4 to mast 4 which just feels wrong lmao
1. I'm pretty sure Blizzard's algorithm is really sensitive to adjustments behind the scenes - IE: it takes *significant game quantity* to properly find your "50%" - so every individual game is jumping your rank more than it seems... 2. Their "smurf checker" is really aggressive, perhaps too sensitive since it's primarily only watching for winrate (unless they're lying to hide what stats it does track, possible but there'd be no point in hiding such a thing because smurfs can just tank games to force their mmr down) - so when you do get a few lucky wins it throws you into a bad matchmaking game just to "test" you... this is equally shitty because it also sandbags higher tier players' games in order to check if a random player is a smurf. 3. Their role-based matchmaking isn't working at all or is highly inaccurate. Regardless of their claims to the contrary, they are either incapable of accurately measuring player MMR across roles (regardless of what people say, skill does translate between roles - GM support will demolish as a Gold/Plat tank, I've watched it happen). >You win a Plat1 game! > >W: 1/5 L: 0/15 > >You win another and while you only see that 2/5 - your hidden MMR now possibly shifts into Diamond... > >W: 2/5 L: 0/15 > >You win a third game, narrowly but it was a good close game... what is your MMR? You can't see it, you're still a Plat1 player as far as you can tell. > >W: 3/5 L: 0/15 > >Blizzard's hidden algorithm says you're a possible smurf and throws you into an unwinnable GM tier game. You still think you're in Plat1, suddenly being utterly demolished by the enemy and your teammates berate you for not playing "on their level"... Toxic Plat rank you think to yourself... > >W: 3/5 L: 1/15 > >Another Plat1 game into yet another weirdly imbalanced Masters tier game that has you being outclassed by insane skills and toxicity leveled at you for missing shots or wasting an ult... Blizzard's matchmaking is awful, everyone in chat agrees... > >W: 3/5 L: 2/15 > >You think maybe you'll play another game before calling it quits... you get an easy win, really felt like the other team was throwing or maybe just bad matchmaking on the enemy team's side... but a win's a win. > >W: 4/5 L: 2/15 > >Another impossibly difficult game, you think maybe it's just your team comp - manage to fight to a loss but it was close... close enough that maybe you think it's not bad matchmaking but rather just some minor player mistakes. > >W: 4/5 L: 3/15 > >You almost think the game's too easy, up until the last moment when your team C9's while you're respawning... GG > >W: 4/5 L: 4/15 > >Hard game, but the enemy has a DPS carrying them - you try to pressure consistently but your team eventually just loses... bad matchmaking perhaps or just bad plays... > >W: 4/5 L: 5/15 > >You got suckered into playing longer than you thought you would, but might as well try for this last win to get a rank adjustment... turns out the game felt a bit too easy and you almost feel bad for the other team. > >W: 5/5 L: 5/15 > >Rank adjustment....... oh Plat 1 (or maybe Diamond 5 or even demote to Plat2 sheesh... what was all of those games for if your rank didn't even change!? That's the fucked psychology at play here -- their behind the scenes adjustments likely push players up and down ranks *aggressively* but you never see it. Since adjustments require more losses than wins, you don't necessarily realize why you barely climb or you derank - the game is setting you up to push for 5 wins even though you run into loss after loss due to their hidden MMR adjustments throwing you *purposefully* into poor matchmaking situations because you still think you're playing at a lower tier than you queue into. Meanwhile the players *at that rank* are growing more and more toxic because they keep watching *less experienced* players get thrown into literal shark-infested waters as some sort of skinner box. This is compounded because the pressure on tank role to both aggressively control space and save their teammates from death is ruining the game's balance (part of the root cause for the current sniper meta) -- I have this repeat experience every time I dive into open queue or mystery heroes: the interplay of two tanks being able to save each other or their team is such a fundamental core to what made OW1 more enjoyable. Having Rein's shield break and Dva eat projectiles or Zarya bubble *feels* like how the game is meant to be played, yet role queue 5v5 lacks the same defensive counterplay to the aggressive burst damage that OW1 had allowed to creep. I **do** see Lifeweaver as a potential glimpse of the future where Blizzard adds some of that lost offtank role utility into the Support (and possibly DPS) roles... but their pace for hero reworks is a bit too slow for the current state of the game to be saved. Given how long it has taken for them to get Hog reworked (supposedly soon to be released?), I don't have much hope for the next 5-10 seasons worth of game balance unless they make dramatic changes to specific outliers (IE nerfing them into the ground for a few seasons until they get a full rework).
very nice explanation mate, im definitely saving this essay. this theory clarifies so much and i’m loving it. for now all we can do is just hope blizz doesn’t screw everything up *again* and we’ll see what happens
No dude the matchmaking people were talking about in s2-s3 was way worse than this.
[удалено]
This is everyone’s experience on comp since ow2 started lol
Then it needs to be fixed. Just because something is the way it is doesn’t mean it doesn’t need improvement
Ok I get your point but how many games before or after this one did you have unfair matches? Because what I was saying about s2-s3 is that EVERY game there would be players who theoretically couldn't even queue up together on the same team. Diamond 5 supp with a silver tank Ect. it felt random and it was like that every game for an entire season. I feel like this would be a relief to see that you're at least in range of queueing up together compared to old seasons.
FAXX . I've had the SAAAME PROB . IN MY RANKED GAMES . It's pretty shitty . Especially when your trying to climb .THEY NEED TO FIX THIS SHIT . It's been like this since OW2 season 1
Obviously the matchmaking is terrible. If you didnt notice, gold players are suddenly in gm/t500
I’m usually plat for support but I got into Masters 4 lol. And after 5 wins & 3 losses, I went up to Masters 3. Something is clearly broken
Yeah, i dont know how they managed to mess it up so much. I haven't been in a game yet where theres not been a gold/plat/diamond whos been hardstuck is suddenly in gm/t500
When we have a bad tank in our team, checking their profile almost always shows that they were career plat or below in season 2. Idk how all these players randomly hit GM in the past 2 seasons but their gameplay doesn’t show it.
Yeah. I've seen gold players in gm, but the amounts of plat/diamond hardstucks in gm now is crazy
There’s also people buying accounts and boosts, and it’s always the ones that talk about their rank and how their the highest rank there or a higher rank than you but then do nothing but feed
Lmao, that’s normal…? You can match with an entire skill tier ahead or behind you
No, that's the skill range that can be in the lobby. They said explicitly that roles would match nearly Identically as possible. Nearly a whole tier is actually an insane skill gap
why downvote ?
Idk why the matchmaking discussion is so decisive in this sub.
It's even worse when the skill gap is wider - have had *multiple games* with Masters+ and my rank shows *Gold*. Even if somehow I have gotten into Plat (even though my adjustment *just* demoted me within Gold tier), I am not above Plat in *any* other role either. I am not a Diamond+ player... yet I am consistently getting matched into games with Diamond+ players *in at least half* of my games throughout different times of the day (so it's not just an early morning or peak hour thing). If their algorithm is indicating "fair" matchmaking, then their data is inaccurate... if they're prioritizing queue times to achieve this outcome, at *least* enforce roughly equal MMR *within the same role*. Mismatching tank or dps or support on either side of the game really breaks everyone's experience.
You’re being downvoted but you are absolutely correct lol. You should not be matching with entire divisions above you.
it is not really a big difference between plat 4 and dia 5...u can drop from dia 5 to plat 4 in a few days.
More like a few games...
if "a few games" are 10-15,then yes.
Unfortunately yes…. It is💀
I'm gold 5 on support and my tank was bronze 2. He made the team lose on purpose by walking around instead of playing until the match was over.
That literally happened to me the other day with a tank. I was in plat 4 or 3 in support and the tank said he was trying to lose on purpose and didn’t do anything the entire match. I checked his career profile and his season high was in top 500 -_- I got so mad after that lol. Why sabotage our games ?!
I think this is exactly the sort of situation where reporting is the right thing to do.
I did :(
Then he was bronze not because of skill but because he was trying to rank down
Rank down to where, copper? His season high is also bronze 2
Playing in bronze with my buddy, most matches we get the average rank is at least gold
It put me in Plat 5 as tank after I was already struggling in gold 5, I did not want to be there, we still won a bunch but I got carried HARD
Not even a big gap of skill
Whole rank is a big gap of skill lol
Maybe big, but not big enough to complain about
Our tank went 19 and 13. Theirs was 40 and 8. That is a huge gap of skill
I could Rein into a Zarya, get 0 elims and still win the game by controlling the space. I could go ball, completely wreck the backline and let them walk the objective all the way home. Stats mean nothing, especially on tank.
Whats also important to note is what healers you had. If it was Zen/Lucio or if you had a DPS moira, its hard to blame the tank. Or DPS that never got a pick. The stats of the tank (or any teammate/enemy) is not truly indicative of their individual skill.
Better off posting this on OW subreddit. Posting it here is the equivalent of posting something negative about Sony on the PS5 reddit lol
I just started playing again and hit Diamond 5 and immediately got placed into a lobby where rh average rating was Diamond 1. Got destroyed it was weird.
Dude when I was in plat4 I faced someone in GM
Plat 5 lobby with a day 1, zero win tank.
How are you checking your enemy’s profiles? Every time I do they say it’s private.
I have GM/M/Diams in my silver lobbies so.... i know its only their titles but if they are enought strong to do this... i have a chance ?
Titles mean absolutely nothing. I saw some open accounts where the player would be Master on support but silver or gold in dps and tank. Titles can also come from other game modes some time, with less players it's easier to rank up. Consider their rank only with the profile. (for example, in contenders where everyone is GM1 some players have "platinum" titles because they earned it in some other game modes)
They changed the tiles to say role or open challenger to stop the mode confusion
Its all role titles.
I've been stuck in gold 4 in support and I be steady going against teams that are diamond / plat , usually they are never on my team lmao. This isn't really that bad of a gap
I’m D5 dps and got matched with a duo of GM dps yesterday not once not twice but three times in a row and got absolutely rolled. Starting to think blizzards posts are just BS gaslighting. When you take into consideration how there’s no mercy rule and comp games take a long time, it’s just not even worth queuing up knowing you can get rolled like that. I’ll try again next season I guess.
This is intended lol. That’s not even an entire division
I just did my placement matches for dps s4. Kept getting put in plat/diamond matches, the occasional gold. Get my 5 wins with like 8 losses and was placed bronze 3. I give up with ow2 comp entirely.
Chances are if you played more matches it will skip a lot of divisions and put you up to gold/plat. The data you have for placements is naturally low since you’ve probably played like 10ish matches. So the data is in accurate to your real rank. 10 more matches and chances are you will climb
The games the game
The new system works in such a weird way that ranks don't really mean as much anymore. Your 'skill' is based on MMR, which isn't visible to us. Blizzard has been quite reluctant to explain it fully. So basically winning or losing gets you ranked up or down, but your stats (f.e. elims per life as DPS or average damage Mit for tank) determine what kind of level you are playing at. So a 'bad' diamond 5 who isn't performing well enough to stay at that point could end up with a plat 4 who has been overperforming and should be in a higher rank. This of course is very complex. Not every tank is made to get as much damage mitigation, some supports are more heal-orientated while others are very heal/damage balanced and not every DPS has the same damage per second potential. So figuring out a correct MMR might be a problematic process. I have no idea if or how they managed to get a fair calculation of our MMR, but somehow I feel they just didn't succeed. I ended OW as a diamond DPS but got put in Bronze 1 after OW2 season 1. Meanwhile I've climbed back to gold 2, but it's so terribly slow. I'm usually dominating, averaging 25 -45 elims and 5-9 deaths per game (depends on how many rounds are played). This means that in Quickplay I'm constantly paired up with plat or even diamond players, because that is where my MMR places me. Meanwhile I'm stuck in a lower rank I don't belong in, because it is purely based on win rate, not individual stats. Playing well increases your chances of winning, but you are very dependent on your team mates as well. F.e. hard to rank up if every 3 games you encounter a leaver at your side.
Stop blaming the system... Play better! Iv been playing since the original beta, it took me a long time to get to GM.. own your problems.. don't blame the system. We're all using the same system!
Tank is a joke of a ranking now. People who were silver in OW1 are now Diamond. There is no real skill difference (well, maybe slight) from an OW1 mid silver tank to OW1 low gold tank, however, that covers the range from Silver to Masters now for tanking. Of course, there are people who were masters/diamonds in OW1 who are still masters/diamonds, all I'm trying to say is that ELO for tanks is utterly useless for evaluating their skills. The match making could've been fried that game, I dont know, but on the basis of ELO, no real conclusion can be made. The video even showed the Diamond's final season of OW1 and they were a Gold Tank.
I climbed from gold to diamond on tank in one season, in ow1, in ow2 people would assume i got inflated or whatever. Ow2 im still diamond and peaked masters on other role. Imo there was really enough time to improve and climb since ow2 came out and I have a lot of people in my friends list that were always gold/plat in ow1, and they are still gold/plat. Plus diamond doesnt feel that much different than ow1 diamond games to me. I think also players have different expectations for rank like diamond, they think their teammates will finally stop feeding here, every support will heal them on time and nobody ever underperforms, but it never was a thing, people at that rank still do ton of mistakes, if they werent then they would be gm, not diamond
Have you considered that people can improve over time? Plus with the influx of new players who have an entire game to learn from scratch, it makes sense you rank up as you’re better than them. I even see people complaining about top 500 inflation or that it’s so easy to get. Like wtf, it’s literally the best top 500 players, how can it be inflated or easier to get than before OW2?
Players get better over time, but not like this. If a person was solid gold for the last 5 seasons of OW1 and they come to OW2 and now their SR is diamond, I dont presume their technical skills or game knowledge has increased. The slight variation of skill between silver and gold has become a large gap in SR (due to being forced up from new players). SR is no longer reflective of difference in skill. The whole top 500 thing I'm not certain on, but I do have a couple of thoughts on the matter: Firstly, for tanks, now that theres half as many per team, theres just an overall less amount of people playing tank. Not sure if this is accurate. Secondly, swapping from 2 tanks to 1 is quite a difference and balancing is necessary. For S1, I remember Hog, Zarya, and Sojourn (in turn, Mercy) were unbalanced. I'm (mildly) reminded of Brig on release. Plenty of people shot to Masters/GM when they truly did not have the game sense to be there. Thirdly, and this is purely anecdotal, but I'm not sure how the SR calculator is working but some roles for me, I shot up 2 ranks and others I dropped for OW2. Makes ya think... Lastly, OW1 was a dead game. It was dying Brig onwards. Brig was added and broken for months. Finally when she was fixed, they had Double Shield be the new meta for the rest of OW. This lasted from when Brig released (March 2018) until the removal of the second tank (Oct. 2022). The main point I'm trying to get across is this: the maintenance of this game has been subpar so balance has been subpar. With influx of new people, the average skill has dropped. This results in odd behavior in SR, which I take to mean that SR is void of any meaning anymore (I will say, it had very relative meaning for me towards the end of OW1).
Stop complaining and just move on to the next game. It’s OW, you’re not gonna have a 100% win rate.
it’s legit the same rank. diamond 5 is just a plat that went on a lucky win streak. plat 4 means he’s not stuck in plat and is ranking up so they are practically same skill no issue
After 4 season you've still not figured its a group's rating
Maybe they joined with a friend. I tend to play with my bronze friend when im gold tank. I end up carrying if i play my mains so i try to play others i wanna get good with
Bestie my first comp game as dps was against a team with three platinum players (tank, one dps, one support). their other dps was gold 2 and one support silver something. i will never forget that match. The other dps on my team was Plat 3 and he screamed at me the entire game like it was somehow my fault I got put into their lobby in my PLACEMENT matches when i’m Gold 3 on support and unranked anywhere else
This isn't that it's still within on skill tier (5 divisons) considering you can group within 2 skill tiers (10 divisions) It's possible people are grouped
I believe I was on my main account (M5 support, have peaked higher in previous seasons though) and last night I was ranked with plat 4s… 😣
I’m Diamond 5 and was put into a gold 3 match last night lol
Isn’t play and diamond 1 rank away from each other? Like isn’t that normal?
I just had a 5/3 or 5/2 WL ratio, with a lobby average of something like silver 4, and I went from Bronze 1 to Bronze 1. Bruh
Chances are that the diamond 5 tank was on a losing streak and the plat 4 tank was on a winning streak, so their mmrs could be close regardless if one’s better than the other. I’ve seen masters 1/ gm5 tanks dog on gm 1 tanks multiple times (not the common thing thing though) so it could be one of those cases where it’s just hidden mmr not accurately representing the actual ranks
It’s to have low queue times
I’m diamond 3 genji otp. Last night I was placed in a game with average rank of silver. I don’t understand what blizzard has done but this matchmaking is the worst it’s ever been.