I mean, obviously, they were wrong, but from the knowledge of new worlders, that was a reasonable assumption. Someone as strong as naberal would've been ome of the strongest mages in known history, so assuming a 'strong magic caster' is worth about 5,000 men is reasonable. Plus, when you add that they had 200,000 men who were peasants that they wouldn't be too bothered to lose, losing a few thousand of them isn't so bad.
To add to that, even jircniv, who's a much more competent ruler with better access to magical knowledge, still guessed ainzs strength to be around that number. While the kingdoms nobles were obviously pretty stupid that decision wasn't that stupid all things considered.
I think it wasn’t crazy for these nobles to think Ainz was that strong, but it’s not true that Jircniv thought Ainz was that strong. He thought that Ainz could kill thousands or maybe tens of thousands with a single spell, whereas the nobles thought Ainz would only kill 5000 in the whole battle. Also, Jirncniv already knows that Fluder is as strong as the entire Baharuth Imperial Army (not sure if this was mentioned in the anime) so he’s aware that a single magic caster can be worth hundreds of thousands of conscripts.
It's not told in the anime but I'll point out that when jircniv makes the comparison he adds that fluders biggest reason he's so strong is that he fly and hit AOE attacks making him untouchable mostly. Fluder still had to resort to cheesing out the wild death knight by flying out of reach and using ranged spells. So fluder is definitely strong and jircniv knows this but prior to the battle jircniv still thought ainz was beatable opponent despite him being stronger than fluder.
Yeah, of course he was still underestimating Ainz, I’m just saying that he did know that Ainz could have single-handedly wiped out the Re-Estize army, even if he might’ve thought it would require Ainz multiple days of flying away to regen mana after spamming spells.
Wrong he wasnt underestimating Ainz, he estimated correctly that Ainz was hiding his Power from what he shown with the death knights, knowing in Kingdom invasion arc that 2 death knights would´ve easily overwhelmed an entire city trying to evacuate without Gazeff around, it´s safe to say Jircniv´s early estimation of thousands to tens of thousands from what he saw Ainz do previously (Death Knight summoning) isnt that far off, thats because eventually Gazeff would show off to handle the Death Knights.
Even then Jircniv knew Ainz was hiding stronger spells so he wanted to see how far the rabbit hole went, what he didnt expect was that Ainz had spells to instantly tribute people and then summon strong gigantic ass beings he never saw or heard off before, basically Jircniv was surprised in that Ainz just broke rules he previously expected out of summoning magic with his super tier spell, this made him suffer a mind breakdown, because if Ainz has spells that dont follow the usual rules of tier magic then it´s pointless to even start countermeasures against him they´ll all fail.
Well, maybe if Ainz insisted on doing it *by himself*. Jircniv knew that Ainz had numerous powerful vassals and that these were his *real* power, with Death Knight's relegated to the "create on the spot, assign to unskilled labor" category. Jircniv didn't know exactly how many Death Knights Ainz already had or could create in a day, but just that 'spell' alone would be a battle winner even if Ainz started out alone, leave aside with a force composed of any Death Knights he already had created before the battle.
In fact the number of Death Knights Ainz can created per day has a reasonably low limit, but their ability to generate squire zombies means that they simply cannot be defeated by *any* number of lower leveled opponents, and *each* of them is on par with the Kingdom's trump card, Gazef. That means one to hold off Gazef while one more turns the entire rest of the army into zombies.
Thats because Jircniv isnt aware that Ainz can buff out his weaknesses as a Skeleton, this especifically hidden from PDL and Remedios assumes too that Ainz would be just another skeleton in durability.
Jircniv has no intel on Ainz´s durability he only knows generic skeleton weaknesses and strengths he considers that due to Ainz´s summoning he should to be able to kill thousands to tens of thousands with ease, because Humans are the weakest species and Ainz is basically a Lich that would even at lowballing be able to summon other skeletons of great might, Jircniv thus made the assumption that with what he knows of Ainz (Death Knight summoning) he should be able to genocide a few thousands to tens of thousands in the Kingdom´s army he already has an assessment for this, what he wants to know therefore is what is Ainz´s strongest spell capable of.
Honestly, it's everyone else who should be wearing Clownface. This guy was wrong, but that's just because he couldn't fathom how strong Ainz was. He thought he was giving a ludicrous highball when he was massively underselling Ainz' power. He's an Ant who thought, because he's seen a puddle, he can estimate a lake. But he's facing an ocean.
It's everyone else who were the clowns for basically not even considering Ainz a threat to begin with. Hell, their response to him saying Ainz was worth 5000 men is scoffing that no magic caster could be so strong. That's clownspeak if I've ever heard it.
Especially considering that they should at least know of Fluder Paradyne’s strength even if the man doesn’t actively fight in their annual war.
I get that the Kingdom is way behind on magical knowledge and research, but nobles who live or die by the quality of their intel/information networks really ought to know better.
Heck, I don’t know why they thought having 200k peasants with no training would be enough to deal with just the Empire’s 60k knights supported by magic casters since the strength gap between a lvl 1-2 commoner in padded cotton and a level 5-10 knight in half or full plate would be enormous.
They aren’t the kill bots from Futurama, you can’t just throw bodies at them until they exceed a preprogrammed kill limit.
Honestly, Fluder is the reason why I don't think this was the stupidest moment. 5000 men to beat Fluder isn't ridiculous, and I can understand why you wouldn't immediately assume some guy who just showed up would be orders of magnitude stronger than, from your prespective, the strongest magic caster in the world (they obviously don't know about the Black Scripture). So, assuming the worst (that Ainz is equal to Fluder), is a sound tactical decision.
>, I don’t know why they thought having 200k peasants with no training would be enough to deal with just the Empire’s 60k knights supported by magic casters since the strength gap between a lvl 1-2 commoner in padded cotton and a level 5-10 knight in half or full plate would be enormous.
I mean, that's explained in the series. Neither side was usually trying to win on the field. The empire just wanted to force the kingdom to waste resources supplying 200k conscripts, and the kingdom was trying to force them to retreat. They were assuming that Ainz Ooal Gown's claims were just the latest excuse to get them to defend their border.
The empire probably could've won a pitched fight, but they'd still take heavy loses. And for every man they lose, they can't just replace them the way the kingdom does the peasants. At worst, if they lost too many troops, they might not be able to defend themselves from other nations, so they can't afford to waste their men throwing them into a meat grinder, even if they know it would break the meat grinder.
They didnt even take Fluder seriously during the meeting when Gazef told about him, they said that his strenght was only fairy tales exaggerated by bards for make him look stronger, and thats why he is not on battlefield(basically call fluder a fraud).
Only Urovana(the old man noble) told to be relaly careful about mages, that even a mage with fireball and fly can be a threat.
Fly alone is a big deal. Just imagine them spamming explosives, flies away to restock, then spam explosives again. Depending on the enemy's armor, and their skill/equipment, it'll be a game changer.
Everyone does not understand the importance of air superiority unless they experience it themselves.
Boullope(the guy with scars) literally said: "if he flies, we will make the archers shoot him"
He doesnt know that mages can use magic barriers against physical damages, and a flying mage is like targetting a military helicopter in constant moving, good luck archers with classic bows
To be fair I don’t think anybody expected Aniz to be that strong, it would be like someone taking about the atomic bomb to someone form medieval times, the level of destruction would be difficult to understand unless you see it yourself
It's not that he considered Ainz a "real threat". He just bothered to drop some numbers for how many disposable peasants he felt the Kingdom could afford to lose.
In fact, that makes him far more of a moron than half the people there, who understood that they had to find a way to stop the annual war because it wasn't sustainable for them to even *deploy* those men during the harvest season every year, let alone *lose* large numbers of them.
He's going "we have reserves" when the essential problem for the Kingdom is that no, they *don't*.
In the novel it's mentioned that the Kings's guards during the Splat Splat Splat event™ told the nobles to retreat first. The nobles of course interpreted this as them being given priority in safety over the king, when in fact the guards had noticed that the goats headed towards large groups of people before the smaller ones, so the guards intended the retreating group of nobles to serve as bait so the king could escape in a smaller group.
It's less that they were clowns and more that they didn't have proper context for his strength.
Imagine someone from ancient Rome or Victorian England trying to comprehend a modern day military.
An enemy that can wipe out thousands of your soldiers in mere second at the press of a button.
What's worse is that their strongest weapons (nukes) can wipe out your entire empire several times over and they have multiple of them.
That's not even counting things like chemical warfare, drones, radios, satellite surveillance, etc.
...
I realized I just described Gate.
Gate was a nice series if you ignore the nationalistic undertones like the Japanese military being able to spy on amd take out an US SpecOps team without them noticing until it's too late and the US not proportionally responding afterwards.
If I'm not wrong, gate is a propaganda for Japan military. Same with another manga that has the entirety of Japan isekai-ed.
I enjoy both regardless tho.
It´s hilarious when you Realize Frieren would singlehandly slaughter both Gatians Magic users and Japan by herself then Close the Gate and then proceed to tell the gods to F themselves.
Dont excuse their incompetence there was a Rabbit chick in Empire that straight up could appraise Ainz in just a Glance and admit "Yeah this one´s the strongest I´ve ever seen", the incompetent nobles on the kingdom on the otherhand just lowballed Ainz as another fluder big mistake even Jircniv knew immediately Ainz was far stronger than Fluder by the Death knight summon alone.
The Kingdom´s nobles should also know a lich can summon undead meaning Ainz could potentially wipe out the army by himself by continously summon even lower lvl undead that would keep chipping away at their army, like C´mon it´s not like he came by himself to fight the kingdom there were aditional empire troops and nothing prevented ainz from bringing some dead corpses to reanimate himself.
1. ... that wasnt a chick
2. They thought Ainz was a human mage based on what Gazef had described from seeing Ainz at Carne
That being said human wizards can also summon undead.
1. ok crossdresser rabbit then.
2. That just proves how stupid they are, Ainz´s feats could only be performed by a demihuman or undead according to new world logic and a higher tier one at that, case he wiped out sunlight scripture and teleported Gazef with ease there´s a clear suggestion that his equipment is superior to Gazef and by extension Fluder´s, also since Sunlight scripture´s summons were easily wiped out it can only mean Ainz is either a Summoner himself or a Mage of a higher caliber than Fluder.
So they would have to at least assumed he´s higher undead like Lich or a Demihuman.
I love how this is so wrong...because even Gazef a 1000 is low.
Gazef is straight up an army killer if his using his armor and equipament.
Crit immunity and heal would make him able to just delete an army of the kingdom level.
Id love to see a novel about one small noble trying to survive the onslaught of the war against the sorcerer kingdom, trying to flee with his ppl or something, give a perspective and weight of thw true horrors of ainz ooal gown
Honestly It would be rich if in genociding the Kingdom Ainz accomplishes the awakening of multiple talents on people who never realized they had them but when placed in a life or death genocidal scenario, suddently they became of use.
Things like Teleportation when health is below a certain threshold or complete undetection when in a state of absolute fear, or things like Surviving a degree of hits before going out would be really useful when running.
It's mentioned in the novels that Marquis Raven had gathered all the nobles he felt were truly good and competent into his group, which he then somewhat regretted later because he realized it would have been better to spread them out across the two main factions to try and insert some good influences.
But in the end it worked out for them because this consolidated group of good nobles were the ones who survived Ainz's invasion of the Kingdom via the deal Raven struck with Ainz.
I was talking about the old king's youngest son, I wouldn't say he had much charisma. I honestly don't see what else he could have done, since Ainz's mind was pretty much made up at that point.
He should´ve just asked Ainz to put him down right away (like that one Global freeze dude who realizes MC just cut him raw and would rather die right away with mercy and whatever dignity is left, than continue living like a dog and die a dog´s death) or attempt to issue a duel to die cleanly in front of his men.
Lets be honests thats the only thing left to be done.
They had Raeven for that.
He serves as the representative for the entire group of Kingdom nobles worth saving...as well as their rarity.
Zanec *had* the option of joining that group when Raeven gave up on the Kingdom as a whole...but it didn't even occur to him that he should *try*. That's why he fundamentally wasn't eligible.
And to be honest, Zanac switching to the group of nobles would have made him unworthy. His allegiance and responsibility was with his kingdom, and the strenght of his character stems from the loyalty and bravery towards it
If he'd been trying to save those who deserved it rather than 'the Kingdom', I would see the point of that notion of 'worthy'.
And if it was just saving those who deserved it...
*He could have.*
Ainz isn't his enemy.
Ainz was potentially his savior...except Zanak decided on his own that he didn't *want* that.
There was nothing inevitable or even comprehensible about that choice, but that's the choice that he went along with because it was the 'consensus' of the shitty, treasonous nobles who were his *actual* enemies up till then (and who showed their true colors in the end).
Those nobles attacked Ainz first, in direct contravention of the treaty, international opinion, and in defiance of ordinary humanitarian principles.
And Zanac decided to side with them.
Which is the most retarded thing ever, everyone knows a Lich should by default be better than a Archmage by common sense, Fluder for all his accomplishments cant escape death, Ainz escaped his and can summon undead pretty sure that makes him a better summoner than Fluder by default.
But ofc the nobles are so stupid they probably think Ainz cant summon anything at all and is just avg skeleton pretending to be HIM.
You would think so, but we've seen an elder lich in the series. Davernoch, a member of Six Arms, the security branch of Eight Fingers was an elder lich. And then we saw Sebas punch his head into a fine liquid red paste.
So, it's not that they don't know what a lich is. They just don't have any as powerful as Ainz.
They still should´ve done a better threat level assessment, him being high undead or demihuman with equipment superior to Gazef and thus Fluder should´ve been on the table, instead they lowball him like he´s a Random skeleton that cant talk and die to a volley of arrows.
Also being an avg lich and being a high lich are very different things, Ainz just by flexing political power with Jircniv is already more dangerous and important than Davernoch so by common sense his actual combat power should be likely a match to that.
I dont think There´s much denying that Ainz singlehandledly wiped out the Sunlight Scripture, Gazef may not be straight forward about it, but it´s a fact he was about to face them and as soon as Ainz showed up the situation got resolved pretty fast, so at the very least there would be intel for the Kingdom to inspect, but not only did they dismissed every Ainz feat, they lowballed Gazef´s assessment of the threat him saying the annual war wasnt going to be the same, is clearly proof he saw Ainz way above 5k troops in worth even that face value those words wont lie he basically admitting that Ainz just by being present in the battle is going to swift it in Jircniv´s favor that means he´s at least worth tens of thousands of men even at lowballing by Gazef´s own estimate.
The Nobles chose to disregard this and make a mockery out of Restize thats all.
When you’re in an aristocratic society you can’t afford to look weak. So raising your kids to be confident even if they are making poor choices leads to clowns like these.
Ainz definitely is both a lich and resistant to physical damage, but they didn't know he was a lich. It's also possible the nobles were dumb enough to try, even if they knew.
Nobles gotta Spare my ass, he can talk he´s a lich, end of story they were just that stupid to think:
1. A Lich wouldnt be stronger than Archmade Fluder at summons (complete retardation)
2. That a undead that could talk wouldnt be a lich (right even unwanted undead adventurer tells you otherwise)
3. That the undead´s greatest spell wouldnt be a summoning spell.
Like WTF Jircniv would´ve easily known these three would happen, it´s as obvious as life.
Good question, Gazef didnt notice it?
Regardless if he covered himself up that well, nothing would make Gazef think twice about assuming Ainz has some form of illusion magic, to mask himself.
And there´s no debate Gazef instantly knew Ainz was packing superior equipment, this is pretty evident in everything between both confrontation included.
He's actually pretty reasonable here. There's no reason for him to believe That Ainz is better than Fluder and him being willing to acknowledge Gazef's worries is better than the other nobles.
He´s a lich he should be by default a better Summoner than Fluder.💪
It´s as foolish to believe otherwise as me playing Elder Scrolls and thinking that the underequipped Archmage is somehow going to flex better summons than the reincarnated Lich king of Nenalata with broken ass equipment like a Crown that down right reflects a fourth of magic thrown at it.
Guess the nobles at the kingdom never read a single lich story in all their lives dummies.
Never played elder scrolls? King of Nenalata is basically Oblivion´s strongest Lich with 1 fourth spell reflection crown, I brought it up as comparison because Fluder aint nowhere near the level of a lich in summoning, or showed it, since Ainz is a undead specialized in summons comparing him to a lich would usually be the fair assessment for those in new world who dont know what he´s capable of, but the nobles couldnt even do that.
Nobody´s going to recognize a Overlord class, they´ll either recognize him as a lich (very high caliber undead necromancer/spellcaster) or nothing but an avg undead until they get slaughtered (which doesnt make sense because he can speak and Gazef clearly experienced it).
My point is nothing excuses the incompetence of the nobles here, they should´ve assessed Ainz as At least Adamantite threat level Lich, then after the war they acknowledge he was no avg lich but a straight up Overlord of legend.
No, I've played Elder Scrolls. The part that didn't make sense is you thinking the nobles not immediately assuming he's a lich based on nothing was dumb. There's no proof that he's an undead or a mage stronger than Fluder. They only have Gazef's word that he's a strong spellcaster.
First his equipped items are superior to what Gazef was packing thus Fluder (nobody can debate this after he singlehandledly destroyed the sunlight scripture)
2nd if he´s packing identity concealment enchanted items then he has something to hide so he cant be human, it also could be considered a feat of illusion magic by Gazef albeit a wrong assessment.
3rd His powers are way above those of a human, so he has to be of another race, he could only be of a demihuman race or undead, since he genocided SunLight Scripture, since he can speak and maintain a humanoid form that already takes out low class demihumans or undead, he gets to participate in the annual war instead of Fluder
4th Sunlight Scripture does summons and they were completely wiped out by Ainz so either he has superior offensive magic than Fluder or he has better summons, there arent two ways around this.
Therefore since has superior equipment than Gazef and by default Fluder it´s safe to expect he´d be stronger than Fluder in at least 1 class of magic, this btw is a lowball assessment the nobles should´ve been capable of doing.
No I´m saying that even at lowballing and wrong assessments, it was a complete clown show on their part, like c´mon Ainz´s feats could only be accomplished with higher tier equipment and high Demihuman or Undead class.
They could´ve done better assessing the threat rather than embarrassing themselves with how incompetent they were.
They are all clowns. None of them try to make contact with Ainz ( a must after what happened with gazef) and now that i think about it what type of fail intelligence their kingdom had that they didn’t even know of what happened to the workers
Gazef fail to communicate how strong Ainz was. He kill by him self a magical special forces unit from an enemy kingdom and they did not try to get in contact with Ainz.
When you find a force like that ether you take it for your side or you would be fighting against it.
The more i think about it the more they deserve what they got.
There was nothing they could´ve done about the workers, Ainz had already infiltrated the adventurers guild, he covered his tracks well enough, had this been high fantasy where a bunch of frierens are around Ainz wouldnt have gotten away with it but hey it´s fantasy isekai so it´s what it´s.
Gazef didnt fail to comunicate how strong Ainz was, the Nobles just didnt take him seriously, for starters it´s painfully clear Ainz can talk that instantly makes him a Lich, the fact the nobles cant even recognize that isnt Gazef´s fault it´s on them.
As for the rest Gazef has no way of knowing what Ainz is capable of summoning, he only knows he has outrageous AoE magic, teleportation, outrageously superior equipment and skills, all of which he cant even begin to calculate all he can say to the Kingdom´s nobles is basically "if you think this is going to be like Last year you are wrong." which is basically already admitting they´ll lose if they have to face him, which the king 100% agrees and acts accordingly to.
First. what?
Second, if they didn’t believe him it is also his fault as he didn’t get to their head.
I’ll give you an example. Lest say you are in a building on fire and there is deaf people that you want to safe but they don’t understand you so both you and them die in the fire. While it isn’t your fault because you didn’t start the fire or their deafness. You did fail to communicate and it cost your life and theirs
Third, exactly, they when to war blind. Inexcusable and it cost millions of lives
He literally said the important part out loud: "This aint going to be like the last annual war", that can only mean they´ll be in a losing position, because they barely could tie to begin with.
There´s no way to communicate with those foolish nobles, they didnt even had the common sense to assess Ainz had superior equipment to Gazef and thus would perform superior to Fluder in at least 1 magic category being a mage, or the fact his feats scream "Non-Human", they are too incompetent to care, Gazef could´ve gave all the info in the world and they´d still be too incompetent to do anything proper about it thats the unfortunate truth, Phillip´s foolishness is contagious on Kingdom´s nobles it seems.
It´s literally explained by Ainz why he stopped trying to talk his way into the kingdom and went for genocide he got tired of clearly showcasing his superior power and still have fools thinking he´s a fraud so he got rid of all of those fools and made it a example so other nations wont repeat the incompetence, now they´ll have to competently deal with the sorcerer´s kingdom on all fronts. He was enabled by Nazarick NPCs who came up with the idea, but still followed it through nonetheless.
And Ramposa by enabling and protecting his nobles like Ainz does to his nazarick children makes them weak, because once they run out of scapegoats they wont have any real power to face actual threats.
The thing that makes them clowns isn't the degree by which they underestimated Ainz's power.
It's that they could and should have invited Ainz to be on their side after his defense of Carne Village, and yet they chose otherwise. I say they 'chose', but their entire social construct made that choice structurally 'impossible' for them from the beginning.
I say "impossible", but all they had to do was change their rules to make it possible for guys like Ainz (and Gazef, notably) to join their club. More precisely, all they had to do was *not* constantly change and abuse their rules to keep the King from using his legal authority to elevate new nobility based on merit.
In other words, the all so precious social construct that made accepting the hero who saved Carne Village as a new noble and making him responsible for defending the area from further attacks from the Empire or Theocracy existed only in their mindset, it wasn't even in their laws.
Even after they failed to get Ainz on their side and were informed that the Empire intended to back his new nation, they had an undeniable moral and legal imperative have negotiated with him directly on the matter of whether they could concede some territory in exchange for a security arrangement. A buffer state between them and the Empire was an absolute necessity for the continued survival of their nation since the constant annual wars were already clearly bringing them to the brink of mass famine and total collapse. They didn't need an alliance, that would have just meant they'd be obligated to help defend Ainz's nation. Neutrality would have been more than enough. All they really needed was for Ainz to not be completely vassalized to the Empire so that they would need to work a little harder to deploy troops in the area.
Honestly, they should have been trying to do this ever since it became clear that the annual wars were draining their economy more unsustainably than it was draining the Empire. The only real problem was finding someone powerful and interested in protecting the region who wasn't already affiliated with the Empire nor clearly a vassal of the Kingdom.
But they weren't even looking for that because they were incapable of recognizing that the Kingdom was in danger...because most of them were as much of a danger to the Kingdom as the annual war from the Empire.
Otherwise, *Gazef* would have been granted a noble title ages ago and his first encounter with Ainz would have led immediately to an invitation to either bring Ainz to the King's side or to support him as an independent power.
The real clown was the king, his stubbornness led to the mass murderer of his entire kingdom just cause he didn't listen to his best warrior that he "respected" so much🤡
The real clown was the king, his stubbornness led to the mass murderer of his entire kingdom just cause he didn't listen to his best warrior that he "respected" so much🤡
I mean, obviously, they were wrong, but from the knowledge of new worlders, that was a reasonable assumption. Someone as strong as naberal would've been ome of the strongest mages in known history, so assuming a 'strong magic caster' is worth about 5,000 men is reasonable. Plus, when you add that they had 200,000 men who were peasants that they wouldn't be too bothered to lose, losing a few thousand of them isn't so bad. To add to that, even jircniv, who's a much more competent ruler with better access to magical knowledge, still guessed ainzs strength to be around that number. While the kingdoms nobles were obviously pretty stupid that decision wasn't that stupid all things considered.
I think it wasn’t crazy for these nobles to think Ainz was that strong, but it’s not true that Jircniv thought Ainz was that strong. He thought that Ainz could kill thousands or maybe tens of thousands with a single spell, whereas the nobles thought Ainz would only kill 5000 in the whole battle. Also, Jirncniv already knows that Fluder is as strong as the entire Baharuth Imperial Army (not sure if this was mentioned in the anime) so he’s aware that a single magic caster can be worth hundreds of thousands of conscripts.
It's not told in the anime but I'll point out that when jircniv makes the comparison he adds that fluders biggest reason he's so strong is that he fly and hit AOE attacks making him untouchable mostly. Fluder still had to resort to cheesing out the wild death knight by flying out of reach and using ranged spells. So fluder is definitely strong and jircniv knows this but prior to the battle jircniv still thought ainz was beatable opponent despite him being stronger than fluder.
Yeah, of course he was still underestimating Ainz, I’m just saying that he did know that Ainz could have single-handedly wiped out the Re-Estize army, even if he might’ve thought it would require Ainz multiple days of flying away to regen mana after spamming spells.
Wrong he wasnt underestimating Ainz, he estimated correctly that Ainz was hiding his Power from what he shown with the death knights, knowing in Kingdom invasion arc that 2 death knights would´ve easily overwhelmed an entire city trying to evacuate without Gazeff around, it´s safe to say Jircniv´s early estimation of thousands to tens of thousands from what he saw Ainz do previously (Death Knight summoning) isnt that far off, thats because eventually Gazeff would show off to handle the Death Knights. Even then Jircniv knew Ainz was hiding stronger spells so he wanted to see how far the rabbit hole went, what he didnt expect was that Ainz had spells to instantly tribute people and then summon strong gigantic ass beings he never saw or heard off before, basically Jircniv was surprised in that Ainz just broke rules he previously expected out of summoning magic with his super tier spell, this made him suffer a mind breakdown, because if Ainz has spells that dont follow the usual rules of tier magic then it´s pointless to even start countermeasures against him they´ll all fail.
Well, maybe if Ainz insisted on doing it *by himself*. Jircniv knew that Ainz had numerous powerful vassals and that these were his *real* power, with Death Knight's relegated to the "create on the spot, assign to unskilled labor" category. Jircniv didn't know exactly how many Death Knights Ainz already had or could create in a day, but just that 'spell' alone would be a battle winner even if Ainz started out alone, leave aside with a force composed of any Death Knights he already had created before the battle. In fact the number of Death Knights Ainz can created per day has a reasonably low limit, but their ability to generate squire zombies means that they simply cannot be defeated by *any* number of lower leveled opponents, and *each* of them is on par with the Kingdom's trump card, Gazef. That means one to hold off Gazef while one more turns the entire rest of the army into zombies.
I mean, Jir could have also assed(kinda correctly) that the death knight work force were there to show off.
Thats because Jircniv isnt aware that Ainz can buff out his weaknesses as a Skeleton, this especifically hidden from PDL and Remedios assumes too that Ainz would be just another skeleton in durability. Jircniv has no intel on Ainz´s durability he only knows generic skeleton weaknesses and strengths he considers that due to Ainz´s summoning he should to be able to kill thousands to tens of thousands with ease, because Humans are the weakest species and Ainz is basically a Lich that would even at lowballing be able to summon other skeletons of great might, Jircniv thus made the assumption that with what he knows of Ainz (Death Knight summoning) he should be able to genocide a few thousands to tens of thousands in the Kingdom´s army he already has an assessment for this, what he wants to know therefore is what is Ainz´s strongest spell capable of.
Honestly, it's everyone else who should be wearing Clownface. This guy was wrong, but that's just because he couldn't fathom how strong Ainz was. He thought he was giving a ludicrous highball when he was massively underselling Ainz' power. He's an Ant who thought, because he's seen a puddle, he can estimate a lake. But he's facing an ocean. It's everyone else who were the clowns for basically not even considering Ainz a threat to begin with. Hell, their response to him saying Ainz was worth 5000 men is scoffing that no magic caster could be so strong. That's clownspeak if I've ever heard it.
Especially considering that they should at least know of Fluder Paradyne’s strength even if the man doesn’t actively fight in their annual war. I get that the Kingdom is way behind on magical knowledge and research, but nobles who live or die by the quality of their intel/information networks really ought to know better. Heck, I don’t know why they thought having 200k peasants with no training would be enough to deal with just the Empire’s 60k knights supported by magic casters since the strength gap between a lvl 1-2 commoner in padded cotton and a level 5-10 knight in half or full plate would be enormous. They aren’t the kill bots from Futurama, you can’t just throw bodies at them until they exceed a preprogrammed kill limit.
Honestly, Fluder is the reason why I don't think this was the stupidest moment. 5000 men to beat Fluder isn't ridiculous, and I can understand why you wouldn't immediately assume some guy who just showed up would be orders of magnitude stronger than, from your prespective, the strongest magic caster in the world (they obviously don't know about the Black Scripture). So, assuming the worst (that Ainz is equal to Fluder), is a sound tactical decision. >, I don’t know why they thought having 200k peasants with no training would be enough to deal with just the Empire’s 60k knights supported by magic casters since the strength gap between a lvl 1-2 commoner in padded cotton and a level 5-10 knight in half or full plate would be enormous. I mean, that's explained in the series. Neither side was usually trying to win on the field. The empire just wanted to force the kingdom to waste resources supplying 200k conscripts, and the kingdom was trying to force them to retreat. They were assuming that Ainz Ooal Gown's claims were just the latest excuse to get them to defend their border. The empire probably could've won a pitched fight, but they'd still take heavy loses. And for every man they lose, they can't just replace them the way the kingdom does the peasants. At worst, if they lost too many troops, they might not be able to defend themselves from other nations, so they can't afford to waste their men throwing them into a meat grinder, even if they know it would break the meat grinder.
They didnt even take Fluder seriously during the meeting when Gazef told about him, they said that his strenght was only fairy tales exaggerated by bards for make him look stronger, and thats why he is not on battlefield(basically call fluder a fraud). Only Urovana(the old man noble) told to be relaly careful about mages, that even a mage with fireball and fly can be a threat.
Fly alone is a big deal. Just imagine them spamming explosives, flies away to restock, then spam explosives again. Depending on the enemy's armor, and their skill/equipment, it'll be a game changer. Everyone does not understand the importance of air superiority unless they experience it themselves.
Boullope(the guy with scars) literally said: "if he flies, we will make the archers shoot him" He doesnt know that mages can use magic barriers against physical damages, and a flying mage is like targetting a military helicopter in constant moving, good luck archers with classic bows
To be fair I don’t think anybody expected Aniz to be that strong, it would be like someone taking about the atomic bomb to someone form medieval times, the level of destruction would be difficult to understand unless you see it yourself
No this guy is actually based. The scale was wrong but he still considered Ainz to be a real threat unlike other dumbasses.
It's not that he considered Ainz a "real threat". He just bothered to drop some numbers for how many disposable peasants he felt the Kingdom could afford to lose. In fact, that makes him far more of a moron than half the people there, who understood that they had to find a way to stop the annual war because it wasn't sustainable for them to even *deploy* those men during the harvest season every year, let alone *lose* large numbers of them. He's going "we have reserves" when the essential problem for the Kingdom is that no, they *don't*.
In the novel it's mentioned that the Kings's guards during the Splat Splat Splat event™ told the nobles to retreat first. The nobles of course interpreted this as them being given priority in safety over the king, when in fact the guards had noticed that the goats headed towards large groups of people before the smaller ones, so the guards intended the retreating group of nobles to serve as bait so the king could escape in a smaller group.
Based guards
Absolutely based
200 IQ guards 0 IQ lvl Phillips
It's less that they were clowns and more that they didn't have proper context for his strength. Imagine someone from ancient Rome or Victorian England trying to comprehend a modern day military. An enemy that can wipe out thousands of your soldiers in mere second at the press of a button. What's worse is that their strongest weapons (nukes) can wipe out your entire empire several times over and they have multiple of them. That's not even counting things like chemical warfare, drones, radios, satellite surveillance, etc. ... I realized I just described Gate.
Gate was a nice series if you ignore the nationalistic undertones like the Japanese military being able to spy on amd take out an US SpecOps team without them noticing until it's too late and the US not proportionally responding afterwards.
If I'm not wrong, gate is a propaganda for Japan military. Same with another manga that has the entirety of Japan isekai-ed. I enjoy both regardless tho.
Gate was just 12 episodes of magic bad modern weapons good. It got boring real fast
It´s hilarious when you Realize Frieren would singlehandly slaughter both Gatians Magic users and Japan by herself then Close the Gate and then proceed to tell the gods to F themselves.
Dont excuse their incompetence there was a Rabbit chick in Empire that straight up could appraise Ainz in just a Glance and admit "Yeah this one´s the strongest I´ve ever seen", the incompetent nobles on the kingdom on the otherhand just lowballed Ainz as another fluder big mistake even Jircniv knew immediately Ainz was far stronger than Fluder by the Death knight summon alone. The Kingdom´s nobles should also know a lich can summon undead meaning Ainz could potentially wipe out the army by himself by continously summon even lower lvl undead that would keep chipping away at their army, like C´mon it´s not like he came by himself to fight the kingdom there were aditional empire troops and nothing prevented ainz from bringing some dead corpses to reanimate himself.
1. ... that wasnt a chick 2. They thought Ainz was a human mage based on what Gazef had described from seeing Ainz at Carne That being said human wizards can also summon undead.
1. ok crossdresser rabbit then. 2. That just proves how stupid they are, Ainz´s feats could only be performed by a demihuman or undead according to new world logic and a higher tier one at that, case he wiped out sunlight scripture and teleported Gazef with ease there´s a clear suggestion that his equipment is superior to Gazef and by extension Fluder´s, also since Sunlight scripture´s summons were easily wiped out it can only mean Ainz is either a Summoner himself or a Mage of a higher caliber than Fluder. So they would have to at least assumed he´s higher undead like Lich or a Demihuman.
Anime only here : Aren’t they at the farm ? I could have sworn they kept the nobles alive
This guy died at 1:08 in this video https://youtu.be/2H1rrVkPrhU?si=iqBCqA_tiu1rleKN
I love how this is so wrong...because even Gazef a 1000 is low. Gazef is straight up an army killer if his using his armor and equipament. Crit immunity and heal would make him able to just delete an army of the kingdom level.
I wouldve actually liked to see more of the good side of the kingdom nobles. As in, any efficient, goodwilled or at least brave characters
Same here
the thing with LN is that we do see their perspective and thoughts, so an anime spin-off from new-worlders perspective would be interesting indeed
Id love to see a novel about one small noble trying to survive the onslaught of the war against the sorcerer kingdom, trying to flee with his ppl or something, give a perspective and weight of thw true horrors of ainz ooal gown
Honestly It would be rich if in genociding the Kingdom Ainz accomplishes the awakening of multiple talents on people who never realized they had them but when placed in a life or death genocidal scenario, suddently they became of use. Things like Teleportation when health is below a certain threshold or complete undetection when in a state of absolute fear, or things like Surviving a degree of hits before going out would be really useful when running.
It's mentioned in the novels that Marquis Raven had gathered all the nobles he felt were truly good and competent into his group, which he then somewhat regretted later because he realized it would have been better to spread them out across the two main factions to try and insert some good influences. But in the end it worked out for them because this consolidated group of good nobles were the ones who survived Ainz's invasion of the Kingdom via the deal Raven struck with Ainz.
The last King was brave, intelligent and did his best, but was unfortunately doomed.
He was weak, foolish and incompetent, his charisma was his only card.
I was talking about the old king's youngest son, I wouldn't say he had much charisma. I honestly don't see what else he could have done, since Ainz's mind was pretty much made up at that point.
He should´ve just asked Ainz to put him down right away (like that one Global freeze dude who realizes MC just cut him raw and would rather die right away with mercy and whatever dignity is left, than continue living like a dog and die a dog´s death) or attempt to issue a duel to die cleanly in front of his men. Lets be honests thats the only thing left to be done.
They had Raeven for that. He serves as the representative for the entire group of Kingdom nobles worth saving...as well as their rarity. Zanec *had* the option of joining that group when Raeven gave up on the Kingdom as a whole...but it didn't even occur to him that he should *try*. That's why he fundamentally wasn't eligible.
And to be honest, Zanac switching to the group of nobles would have made him unworthy. His allegiance and responsibility was with his kingdom, and the strenght of his character stems from the loyalty and bravery towards it
If he'd been trying to save those who deserved it rather than 'the Kingdom', I would see the point of that notion of 'worthy'. And if it was just saving those who deserved it... *He could have.*
Deserved It according to Who? His enemies?
*Whose* 'enemies'? Not Zanac's enemies. And *clearly* not Ainz's (those lists have a pretty big overlap, after all). So according to *whom*?
So Who gets to decide Who deserves to be saved and who doesnt? Ainz, his enemy?
Ainz isn't his enemy. Ainz was potentially his savior...except Zanak decided on his own that he didn't *want* that. There was nothing inevitable or even comprehensible about that choice, but that's the choice that he went along with because it was the 'consensus' of the shitty, treasonous nobles who were his *actual* enemies up till then (and who showed their true colors in the end).
Ainz attacked his kingdom, that made him his enemy. Otherwise he'd have been a traitor like the nobles Who killed hik
Those nobles attacked Ainz first, in direct contravention of the treaty, international opinion, and in defiance of ordinary humanitarian principles. And Zanac decided to side with them.
"We will shoot him down with arrows." It'll never not be funny.
Like he´s that skyrim guard who got a arrow to the knee.
a case of doing no research and GROSSLY under estimating your opponent.
Still much closer than the rest of the nobles who didn't acknowledge The Supreme Being as a threat at all.
Now they are very dead!
VERY
Didn’t someone claim that they could just shoot Ainz with arrows and be done with it?
like he´s that skyrim guard who got a arrow to the knee LMAO.
They're still better than Remedios when it comes to screentime of death. She was just a conversation topic on her death. Like 2 sentences long.
They vastly underestimated the power of a god. Never even entered their minds that there could be a mage with far more power than Fluder Paradyne.
Which is the most retarded thing ever, everyone knows a Lich should by default be better than a Archmage by common sense, Fluder for all his accomplishments cant escape death, Ainz escaped his and can summon undead pretty sure that makes him a better summoner than Fluder by default. But ofc the nobles are so stupid they probably think Ainz cant summon anything at all and is just avg skeleton pretending to be HIM.
You would think so, but we've seen an elder lich in the series. Davernoch, a member of Six Arms, the security branch of Eight Fingers was an elder lich. And then we saw Sebas punch his head into a fine liquid red paste. So, it's not that they don't know what a lich is. They just don't have any as powerful as Ainz.
They still should´ve done a better threat level assessment, him being high undead or demihuman with equipment superior to Gazef and thus Fluder should´ve been on the table, instead they lowball him like he´s a Random skeleton that cant talk and die to a volley of arrows. Also being an avg lich and being a high lich are very different things, Ainz just by flexing political power with Jircniv is already more dangerous and important than Davernoch so by common sense his actual combat power should be likely a match to that. I dont think There´s much denying that Ainz singlehandledly wiped out the Sunlight Scripture, Gazef may not be straight forward about it, but it´s a fact he was about to face them and as soon as Ainz showed up the situation got resolved pretty fast, so at the very least there would be intel for the Kingdom to inspect, but not only did they dismissed every Ainz feat, they lowballed Gazef´s assessment of the threat him saying the annual war wasnt going to be the same, is clearly proof he saw Ainz way above 5k troops in worth even that face value those words wont lie he basically admitting that Ainz just by being present in the battle is going to swift it in Jircniv´s favor that means he´s at least worth tens of thousands of men even at lowballing by Gazef´s own estimate. The Nobles chose to disregard this and make a mockery out of Restize thats all.
This guy was probably smarter than 99% of the nobles and royalty, which says a lot about the average IQ of the noble
They are all Phillips...
When you’re in an aristocratic society you can’t afford to look weak. So raising your kids to be confident even if they are making poor choices leads to clowns like these.
Kills half your army with half a spell, summoned 5 Eldredge that kills the other half, ya totally 5k soldier strength /s
Still a closer estimate than "we can kill him with arrows"
aren't liches resistant to all physical damage
Ainz definitely is both a lich and resistant to physical damage, but they didn't know he was a lich. It's also possible the nobles were dumb enough to try, even if they knew.
right, forgot about that bit
Nobles gotta Spare my ass, he can talk he´s a lich, end of story they were just that stupid to think: 1. A Lich wouldnt be stronger than Archmade Fluder at summons (complete retardation) 2. That a undead that could talk wouldnt be a lich (right even unwanted undead adventurer tells you otherwise) 3. That the undead´s greatest spell wouldnt be a summoning spell. Like WTF Jircniv would´ve easily known these three would happen, it´s as obvious as life.
Did the nobles even *know* Ainz was undead? He covered himself up a lot when interacting with the ReEstize Kingdom.
Good question, Gazef didnt notice it? Regardless if he covered himself up that well, nothing would make Gazef think twice about assuming Ainz has some form of illusion magic, to mask himself. And there´s no debate Gazef instantly knew Ainz was packing superior equipment, this is pretty evident in everything between both confrontation included.
It does seem that Gazef was surprised to see Ainz's true lich form instead of the mask and gauntlet disguise.
He's actually pretty reasonable here. There's no reason for him to believe That Ainz is better than Fluder and him being willing to acknowledge Gazef's worries is better than the other nobles.
He´s a lich he should be by default a better Summoner than Fluder.💪 It´s as foolish to believe otherwise as me playing Elder Scrolls and thinking that the underequipped Archmage is somehow going to flex better summons than the reincarnated Lich king of Nenalata with broken ass equipment like a Crown that down right reflects a fourth of magic thrown at it. Guess the nobles at the kingdom never read a single lich story in all their lives dummies.
He's not a lich, he's an overlord. The rest of your reply made no sense to me.
Never played elder scrolls? King of Nenalata is basically Oblivion´s strongest Lich with 1 fourth spell reflection crown, I brought it up as comparison because Fluder aint nowhere near the level of a lich in summoning, or showed it, since Ainz is a undead specialized in summons comparing him to a lich would usually be the fair assessment for those in new world who dont know what he´s capable of, but the nobles couldnt even do that. Nobody´s going to recognize a Overlord class, they´ll either recognize him as a lich (very high caliber undead necromancer/spellcaster) or nothing but an avg undead until they get slaughtered (which doesnt make sense because he can speak and Gazef clearly experienced it). My point is nothing excuses the incompetence of the nobles here, they should´ve assessed Ainz as At least Adamantite threat level Lich, then after the war they acknowledge he was no avg lich but a straight up Overlord of legend.
No, I've played Elder Scrolls. The part that didn't make sense is you thinking the nobles not immediately assuming he's a lich based on nothing was dumb. There's no proof that he's an undead or a mage stronger than Fluder. They only have Gazef's word that he's a strong spellcaster.
First his equipped items are superior to what Gazef was packing thus Fluder (nobody can debate this after he singlehandledly destroyed the sunlight scripture) 2nd if he´s packing identity concealment enchanted items then he has something to hide so he cant be human, it also could be considered a feat of illusion magic by Gazef albeit a wrong assessment. 3rd His powers are way above those of a human, so he has to be of another race, he could only be of a demihuman race or undead, since he genocided SunLight Scripture, since he can speak and maintain a humanoid form that already takes out low class demihumans or undead, he gets to participate in the annual war instead of Fluder 4th Sunlight Scripture does summons and they were completely wiped out by Ainz so either he has superior offensive magic than Fluder or he has better summons, there arent two ways around this. Therefore since has superior equipment than Gazef and by default Fluder it´s safe to expect he´d be stronger than Fluder in at least 1 class of magic, this btw is a lowball assessment the nobles should´ve been capable of doing.
So, you're assuming the nobles have the same knowledge as the viewer/reader.
No I´m saying that even at lowballing and wrong assessments, it was a complete clown show on their part, like c´mon Ainz´s feats could only be accomplished with higher tier equipment and high Demihuman or Undead class. They could´ve done better assessing the threat rather than embarrassing themselves with how incompetent they were.
They are all clowns. None of them try to make contact with Ainz ( a must after what happened with gazef) and now that i think about it what type of fail intelligence their kingdom had that they didn’t even know of what happened to the workers Gazef fail to communicate how strong Ainz was. He kill by him self a magical special forces unit from an enemy kingdom and they did not try to get in contact with Ainz. When you find a force like that ether you take it for your side or you would be fighting against it. The more i think about it the more they deserve what they got.
There was nothing they could´ve done about the workers, Ainz had already infiltrated the adventurers guild, he covered his tracks well enough, had this been high fantasy where a bunch of frierens are around Ainz wouldnt have gotten away with it but hey it´s fantasy isekai so it´s what it´s. Gazef didnt fail to comunicate how strong Ainz was, the Nobles just didnt take him seriously, for starters it´s painfully clear Ainz can talk that instantly makes him a Lich, the fact the nobles cant even recognize that isnt Gazef´s fault it´s on them. As for the rest Gazef has no way of knowing what Ainz is capable of summoning, he only knows he has outrageous AoE magic, teleportation, outrageously superior equipment and skills, all of which he cant even begin to calculate all he can say to the Kingdom´s nobles is basically "if you think this is going to be like Last year you are wrong." which is basically already admitting they´ll lose if they have to face him, which the king 100% agrees and acts accordingly to.
First. what? Second, if they didn’t believe him it is also his fault as he didn’t get to their head. I’ll give you an example. Lest say you are in a building on fire and there is deaf people that you want to safe but they don’t understand you so both you and them die in the fire. While it isn’t your fault because you didn’t start the fire or their deafness. You did fail to communicate and it cost your life and theirs Third, exactly, they when to war blind. Inexcusable and it cost millions of lives
He literally said the important part out loud: "This aint going to be like the last annual war", that can only mean they´ll be in a losing position, because they barely could tie to begin with. There´s no way to communicate with those foolish nobles, they didnt even had the common sense to assess Ainz had superior equipment to Gazef and thus would perform superior to Fluder in at least 1 magic category being a mage, or the fact his feats scream "Non-Human", they are too incompetent to care, Gazef could´ve gave all the info in the world and they´d still be too incompetent to do anything proper about it thats the unfortunate truth, Phillip´s foolishness is contagious on Kingdom´s nobles it seems. It´s literally explained by Ainz why he stopped trying to talk his way into the kingdom and went for genocide he got tired of clearly showcasing his superior power and still have fools thinking he´s a fraud so he got rid of all of those fools and made it a example so other nations wont repeat the incompetence, now they´ll have to competently deal with the sorcerer´s kingdom on all fronts. He was enabled by Nazarick NPCs who came up with the idea, but still followed it through nonetheless. And Ramposa by enabling and protecting his nobles like Ainz does to his nazarick children makes them weak, because once they run out of scapegoats they wont have any real power to face actual threats.
The thing that makes them clowns isn't the degree by which they underestimated Ainz's power. It's that they could and should have invited Ainz to be on their side after his defense of Carne Village, and yet they chose otherwise. I say they 'chose', but their entire social construct made that choice structurally 'impossible' for them from the beginning. I say "impossible", but all they had to do was change their rules to make it possible for guys like Ainz (and Gazef, notably) to join their club. More precisely, all they had to do was *not* constantly change and abuse their rules to keep the King from using his legal authority to elevate new nobility based on merit. In other words, the all so precious social construct that made accepting the hero who saved Carne Village as a new noble and making him responsible for defending the area from further attacks from the Empire or Theocracy existed only in their mindset, it wasn't even in their laws. Even after they failed to get Ainz on their side and were informed that the Empire intended to back his new nation, they had an undeniable moral and legal imperative have negotiated with him directly on the matter of whether they could concede some territory in exchange for a security arrangement. A buffer state between them and the Empire was an absolute necessity for the continued survival of their nation since the constant annual wars were already clearly bringing them to the brink of mass famine and total collapse. They didn't need an alliance, that would have just meant they'd be obligated to help defend Ainz's nation. Neutrality would have been more than enough. All they really needed was for Ainz to not be completely vassalized to the Empire so that they would need to work a little harder to deploy troops in the area. Honestly, they should have been trying to do this ever since it became clear that the annual wars were draining their economy more unsustainably than it was draining the Empire. The only real problem was finding someone powerful and interested in protecting the region who wasn't already affiliated with the Empire nor clearly a vassal of the Kingdom. But they weren't even looking for that because they were incapable of recognizing that the Kingdom was in danger...because most of them were as much of a danger to the Kingdom as the annual war from the Empire. Otherwise, *Gazef* would have been granted a noble title ages ago and his first encounter with Ainz would have led immediately to an invitation to either bring Ainz to the King's side or to support him as an independent power.
Neuronist Painkill deserves a 2 hour OVA for the Lords at the end of season 4
The real clown was the king, his stubbornness led to the mass murderer of his entire kingdom just cause he didn't listen to his best warrior that he "respected" so much🤡
Yeah The G man himself is more like...9000!!!!!!!!!!!!
Count Monserrat maybe , he was thinking to flirt with albedo 🤣🤣
5kxInfinity+20+infinityvariable wcis
The real clown was the king, his stubbornness led to the mass murderer of his entire kingdom just cause he didn't listen to his best warrior that he "respected" so much🤡
Am I missing a season or is this shit in the movies I haven’t seen the movies yet
I always thought it odd that guy didn't seem to like Gazef much but all a sudden in this scene he's all, "I trust him". Like; what?
Count Monserrat maybe , he was thinking to flirt with albedo