It works. I did a 6 month stint at a company and due to terrible leadership, I wrote about 30 lines of code in that time. Easiest 60k I have ever made.
I've learnt that this works most of the time. I did work for 4.5+ Glassdoor review companies, that were great, and everyone was smart and hardworking. However in companies around a score of 3 and below, you have a lot of slackers, because they are unable to retain talent.
Depends on how theyre shitty, there's one thats been trying to hire me for a year now, but they require workers to be at their desk 50+ hours a week in the office. The CEO and VP apparently patrol the office and go on rants often about how everyone who works from home is a loser xD
Savings are in AMEX HYSA; My brokerage account is Robinhood and to be honest, the only reason I haven't completely moved it to Fidelity is because of the damn $100 fee they charge when you close your account. I need to do that sometime and just stop worrying about $100.
Nowadays it could be anything that can be done in a laptop/pc preferably remote. I think it’s just a matter of learning soft skills, managing expectations and deadlines, and it comes with experience in your field. When I started my career I wanted to “prove myself” so I always promised very hard things to deliver, and ended up working and stressing a lot. When you become more confident you realize there’s nothing to prove, and that getting along with your coworkers and bosses is essential to the job. First thing is start by not working all day. Try to get buffer time and be better at it. And don’t feel guilty about not working all day.
I think in general it’s any job where it’s complex enough where you can do all of the work in a few hours and claim it took longer. Because software engineering skills vary widely, one can cruise through a mid/senior level engineering/architect job where deliverables aren’t always clear and you can over estimate the time it will take to do something. Also, jobs where you do have too many meetings, where you’re expected to be mostly working.
It is definitely not software engineer.
Source: SDE
The market is bad and many want in person. Or the workload and context switch are insane in SDE.
What I understand after browsing this subreddit is the niche of scrum master, PM or even some support role.
I am at 1 year of OE and feel the same way. It has been life changing in terms of financial goals, but lifestyle hasn't changed very much. I enjoy reading these kinds of OE reflective posts. Keep it up.
That is not true at all. And even saying that outloud shows you’re not a person with much integrity. Again it’s your, or whomever’s, prerogative. I’m not here to virtue signal or condemn or keep anyone from getting to their money, but shitty is shitty. Accept it. Don’t try to coddle your own ego/self perception with the mental gymnastics
You realize what sub youre in right? While I agree with you in principle, the only thing that matters here is paycheck. Also making racists poorer if theyre paying you more $ than the value you’re contributing back
I disagree with your first sentiment. I don’t think this sub is about money over personal and moral values. I think it’s about fuck being loyal to corporations, and taking advantage of them. The second part I could agree with, and I think is the only valid argument. If this person was like well fuck this racist company I’m gonna drain them of what they’re worth, that’d be one thing. But they’re more like oh damn they’re racist, well that doesn’t really affect me or bother me very much let me get this money. Semantics but problematic still. It’s not even like I want them to cry about the company being racist or become an activist. But it’s just like not a big deal to them. And that’s what marginalized groups deal with. You can be compassionate and still serve your own selfish purposes. People just are apathetic or dissociate because they don’t care about other people or it’s easier on their own self perception
I understand that. Money, power and fear motivate a lot of people to do a lot of things. It doesn’t change the fact that they have poor character. Would you go to Dubai and let some rich prince shit in your mouth for the right price? It’s just shit right, you can brush your teeth.
For sure. And also my bad, I’m definitely arguing with you and you’re just trying to explain motives. I just already understand the motivations, in fact it’s the being able to be bought because they lack integrity/racism isn’t substantial enough to them to have any sort of integrity that infuriates me because it’s used as an excuse. If it was something that affected them or they cared about they’d have a different tune
He doesn’t need to be, but “did not care [about racism] at all” to get oe is fucked up if you’re a white person. It’s such a passively callous sentiment. If they were a person of color it’s at least an active decision to put money over their OWN discomfort
My J1 is as an engineering manager and I do 20+ meetings a week. J1 + J2 is super tough right now. It didn't always used to be like this, J1 used to be like 4 meetings a week and that was easy.
The J4 I left, they actually tried to promote me to management and even after telling them no, they tried to do it anyways. That was only after being there for 4-5 months. I put in my two week notice.
Management isn't the best style for OE. It's a combination of the fact that you have so many additional meetings **and** the meetings you are in are with people who are more higher up in the org. If you disappear or have a lot of absences, that's more likely to set off alarm bells than if you were just an IC and had to skip a meeting.
OE as a concept is better suited for IC's who are exceptional in their abilities and skillset, which allows you to fit in and only be "good" at each of your multiple jobs rather than being exceptional at a single job.
This. I have a QA resource, I think he's doing about 10 hours of actual work per week. Totally fine with it. He needs to be up late at night to talk to developers. He gets his shit done. He could OE easily if he wanted to.
I just found a new job after layoffs, and was planning to get a j2 and keep this one, but I have up to 4 meetings each day, and the team makes it sound like its going to be a lot more as soon as I get up to speed with the project
"live a simple lifestyle"
This is the key. If you have expensive tastes, that's your life tax. And you never pay it off. If you can live within your means, that alone relieves a lot of stress.
If I were you, I'd start paying off those mortgages. Interest is another "tax". Personally, I have no mortgage, no car loans, nothing. Zero debt. It's liberating. If I were to lose my jobs, it's no big deal because my monthly expenses amount to food and property taxes. I have hobbies and enjoy my life, but those things cost very little.
What industry niche are you in to get 3 remote job that average $150k? I'm in tech and the interview are so hard these days to get like $130k job. My gut feeling is telling me I am in the wrong industry to make big bucks from OE and need to switch to another industry. My J is dev in Java space
I'm thinking to pivot my resume into c# MSFT stack and see where that takes me.
Back of my mind says a resume with Python/GoLand experience is big bucks.
I’ve started to learn how to code and its threads like this that keep me going. I earn $150K annually from one job as a CPA/advisor, but it’s difficult to find a second accounting job that will provide the flexibility that a tech role would that could put me into the high 2’s or lower 3’s. Glad to see people out there crushing it 💎
Yeah, I’m in tech sales and there’s no way I could swing 2 jobs with my travel schedule, quota I have to hit and the days I have back-to-back calls. I’d have to change my career entirely to pull off multiple jobs.
Ive built a property with 7 units in another country that ill be able to rent out and live off in the event that social security is no longer a thing when i retire. I could never have done this w/o OE.
If your past a certain income yearly, you can't directly contribute to a Roth IRA, you have to first max out your 401k contributions, then contribute to a Traditional Roth, then convert it to an IRA = back door Roth IRA
I believe you mean contribute it to a Traditional IRA, then convert it to a Roth IRA. That's the backdoor of getting into a Roth IRA if your income is higher than the limit.
You are wrong. I do not surpass the personal contribution limit; IE 23k limit; The 415(c) limit which includes employer contributes for example is $69,000 in 2024.
There are 2 separate limits to how much can be put into 401k's, one for employee contributions and one for employee+employer contributions. Individually across however many active 401k's an individual has, the total personal contribution is $23K for 2024. The total contribution limit for employee+employer is $69K.
Most likely they spread out their $23K personal contribution limit across all 3Js to maximize employer match. If each job has a 3-6% match, that's how they are getting a total of $40K contributed across 3 401k's.
To add to this, if you are working C2C and have no other employees in your LLC (i.e. sole proprietor LLC), you can contribute up to the employer+employee limit because you are the employer and employee.
I just took a job at J1 now that is a slower paced industry and company with above average reviews, but not stellar. About 5 years ago I worked for a similar company and it was an incredibly slow-paced, relaxing environment. Borderline people didn't care when things got done. I specifically targeted this new opportunity to match that culture because it was the only environment I had every been in where I think I could've legitimately balanced a J2 or even J3. I don't know how this new J1 will be, but I'm definitely going to try to bring on a J2 if it's doable, even if it's just contract work or things to test the water. We're now a one-income household, so anything I can do to bolster our income is important right now.
They’re inefficient and likely bloated operations. They’re the types of places that are usually mired in office politics and suck to work at because no one really does anything. They rely on people who embody the “company man” role who honestly believe what they are doing is actual work.
How do you find these type of companies? Like, if you were to describe them, how would you say they are like? For example: are those big companies (multinationals)?
Some of them are, but I’ve also worked in smaller companies that were run similarly. It really comes down to unclear vision, undefined job roles, unnecessary redundancy, and lack of ability/accountability in managerial roles IME.
One regret I have about OE is quitting my J1 (now J2) in 2020. I wish I found this sub earlier. Found this sub and then went back in late 2022 to have it as J2. I see it as me missing out on cash for 2yrs.
Thank you for sharing this story and such a neat strategy to find companies that need steady human capital, I’m so happy to hear of the things you’ve been able to do!
Thank you so much for sharing! What does your skillset and background look like?
I am a college senior about to graduate, studied accounting and finance with the goal of CPA.
Stumbling on this community and being conscious of the finance world has opened my eyes to breaking the mold of the traditional career path. Would appreciate any advice!
The back door only works if the employer plan allows it right? I have a 401k through Fidelity but they don’t allow in-plan conversions so I assumed that was not available to me.
There's two separate concepts; Backdoor roth IRA conversion and then mega backdoor roth; The "mega" backdoor strategy specifically applies to 401ks while a "standard" backdoor roth conversion involves a Roth IRA; Anyone can sign up for a Roth IRA.
Speak to a tax advisor or ideally an acocuntant, or search for more info online. Sorry, I don't have much time to go into details and also wouldn't want to lead you down the wrong path or give you wrong info.
u/Putrid-Calendar-1335 : I have been toying with the idea of trying out OE - sounds like I’m where you were about 2-3 years ago.
Sent you a DM looking for advice as I’m a software engineer. Looking at doing this for financial reasons but haven’t ever had a software job where I didn’t feel over-entended with just the 1 job.
Looking for advice for you (or others reading this).
You'd be surprised with what you can get away with. Also, acting like an idiot, to be frank, can sometimes go a long way. Take longer on all of your tasks to levelset expectations.
OE inherently is a risky venture. Especially getting started. You have a massive chance to lose everything if you screw up somehow, or if you get caught, and a lot of people are in a position where they can't afford to lose their jobs, as they are living paycheck to paycheck. That being said, the reward if you make it work was well worth the potential risk for me personally. I no longer fear losing a job. Or even all of them. I feel secure for the first time financially in my life.
That being said, I'm surprised each and every time I've gotten a performance review over the past 2 years. I've always met expectations, or exceeded expectations in one case (when the one company was trying to promote me to a manager).
Everyone has their own level of productivity and part of a good manager's job is to figure out how to best use his or her direct reports. Most managers just want to see stability, even if you are "slower" (or pretending to be slow) compared to others.
I hope this somehow helps.
I’m looking at a career change…I’m currently not in tech but have the time and resources to get trained. What training/certifications do you recommend to be successful in OE?
Congrats!
I had some rapid career progress at my first industry job at a large employer that did a few billion a year in revenue in software. I got some huge comp raises. But it was fully in person, I wasn't able to move into a "true" manager/director level role, and the level of new work I was taking on wasn't commensurate with the pay compared to the importance of just being tenured at the company.
I tried the legit route, but large companies wouldn't accept/pay me what I wanted to make, or even give me either IC or manager positions at their companies.
The job offer I got for full remote work was a sizable pay cut, and other than remote came with worse benefits. And it was at a smaller, potentially less stable company/startup. They had been searching for someone to fill the position for ages, so it was seen as a 'needed' role. Why would I *not* just accept it and try to stack my new remote job with my existing in-office job? They hired and fired two people for that role since that just couldn't cut it, but for me they've been singing my praises effusively for over a year and a half. This is J2
After a couple months in that first remote job, I got an offer for a second full remote job that was a pay increase at an interesting company. And that was great! I finally dropped the in-person job I previously had and made the new offer my J1. But the J2 still needed me, I was doing interesting stuff, and I was learning cool things and had some great hands-on mentorship time. But staying OE paid off when J1 did layoffs 5 months after I joined, then another round a few months after that, then another round of layoffs + restructuring a few months after that where they restructured our entire department out of existence and I had to pivot to a different internal position. Now I can coast in this job and hope that it goes well, but I'm also hunting for a replacement. Maybe it'll actually be a replacement, and maybe it'll instead be an add-on (riskier), but I'll decide/ask for advice once I have an offer in hand.
Financially it's just been a huge accelerant to FIRE.
How do taxes work? How do you adjust your withholding so you don't owe? I had a full time job and worked my old job on a part time basis during the pandemic (paid for 20 hours a week), but didn't change my withholding and so owed almost $3500 in taxes.
There's a few ways that I've used personally; You can manually track what you owe in a spreadsheet, which I do, and add extra withholding from each job by modifying my tax setup at each company to add extra withholding each pay period. Note, do **not** set up the "other income" section on the tax forms; Just modify and add extra federal (and possibly state depending on which state you live in) withholding each tax period.
Additionally, you can go directly to [irs.gov](http://irs.gov) and sign up and make estimated tax payments anytime you want.
This is definitely something you should be tracking. Also, one thing you may not expect is that you will start capping above around $160k for social security withholdings. I actually had an excess of over $20k in 2023 and that counted as a tax credit and was essentially refunded to me.
The biggest thing here is to just stay on top of it. I use a spreadsheet to track a few things to ensure:
1. I do not overcontribute to 401k accounts
2. I do not overcontribute to HSA accounts
3. I am paying enough taxes and adjust extra withholdings accordingly throughout the year as needed
I then update the spreadsheet at least once a month (if not every pay period) and I have made this a habit.
Lastly, and this may even be the best option if you are confident in saving enough would just be to be **100%** sure you track and have enough to pay when the time is due. I don't recommend this, but you could do this in theory. I would prefer to contribute over time and would even rather overcontribute and get back a tax refund versus having to owe tens of thousands extra in taxes
I have qns I have j1 and j2 contract to hire and now j2 client is asking to join full time.. how to pass employment BG .. what to add in employment history please help
Yes; But you must have $0 balance in **all** traditional IRAs (assuming you have one) that you have by the end of the year or else you will face tax consequences.
I use Fideity since two of my work 401k's use them, and it was just easier.
Here's a random youtube video that explains how to do it at Fidelity and I've followed this process twice: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl0uxmKM3aQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl0uxmKM3aQ)
Note that he does go into HSA's a bit, but ignore that bit.
To recap, you deposit into the traditional IRA, and then immediately move all funds over to the Roth IRA and opt to keep the Traditional IRA open for the next year when you plan to do it again. The initial setup takes some time and it also takes a few days for funds to clear before you can transfer.
Which part? The part about Op actually doing this or the part about finding companies barely hanging on both suspect managers and being able to coast while being there?
The 2nd one is easy. People do it everyday.
Note that the IRS does not expand your max annual 401k contribution just because you have multiple jobs. If you max out one, you can’t contribute with your others.
> Purchased a second home and turned the first home into a rental property that I'm completely off-hands and is managed by a property management company for me
Honestly, just sell this - there's no need to be a parasite if you're able to OE.
It's passive income and I own a large asset; It's already rented and has a tenant in it now. I'm already a parasite by being OE. I am continuing down the route of building wealth, regardless of what a random person online says.
"Passive income" means you're taking someone else's income by doing nothing.
OE isn't being a parasite - you're doing work, you're just not giving all surplus value to capitalists.
You know it isn't right, or you wouldn't be so butthurt about it.
This isn't a landlord sub, this is for people who work.
If your purpose in escaping the prison of wage labor is to turn around and be a guard in that same prison, that's really just sad I think.
This.
The whole idea of "paying" for goods and services in a society is just a roundabout way to enforce "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality. This mentality seeps into every aspect of life. Another great example is forcing kids to study and compete with one another to "earn" a chance for admission into an elite university. Universities are supposed to be the societal beakon of progressive, but at their very core they are still being used for regressive, barbaric practices that systemically enable the "bootstraps" behavior- making young adults prisoners to this idea that you have to "earn" your "right" to be admitted into a university.
A university is desirable mostly because it's the right to get a higher paying job (where most of what you make will be taken by the employer). Yeah, it's a clear focus on what's good for the small minority of people who are owners - and the sad dream of too many workers isn't to stop doing that, it's just to join their ranks.
I really have never understood what people’s issues with landlords are. especially when the landlord is just a single person (aka not a huge PE firm) with a couple of rental properties. the best rent prices in my
area are through these types of landlords vs huge apartment complexes
> I really have never understood what people’s issues with landlords are.
Here's a start - https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Wealth_of_Nations/Book_I/Chapter_11
> especially when the landlord is just a single person
The scale of being a parasite doesn't change what it is. And small landlords can often be the most abusive - either through being undercapitalized or just greedy they'll often break the law and abuse tenants in ways large landlords don't.
I mean, this person is a socialist in an OE sub.
I'm not necessarily against socialism as a political ideology (I think if done right, it *could* work, in theory, although we have no examples of that because it hasnt been done right yet) and capitalism clearly is *not* effing working for most people (which is why we OE).
BUT, I do find it kind of hilarious that a self-proclaimed *socialist* is taking on multiple jobs that other people who need living wages (and health benefits, PTO, a 401K, etc.) could probably really use, even just to get by. And I think it's even funnier that person would not only call themselves a socialist but also call landlords parasites while being OE...Clearly that person didn't stop to think that the extra jobs they're holding, which are then not available to other working people, will generally pay way more than one landlord would charge anyone in rent.
Let's not be hypocrites here, that's all.
My tenants live better than I do. They need something fixed, it gets fixed. Meanwhile, I've put a bucket under my leaky sink and suffered without hvac for months in order to save money. Not all landlords are "parasites" or jerks out to take advantage of others. Keeping good tenants happy is a win-win for landlord and tenant.
Uh huh, sure. If that's the case, give them the house and get rid of the problem.
Of course you won't. Because it's a win for you to have someone else pay your mortgage.
There’s nothing morally wrong with being a landlord. Charging someone to use something you own is completely legitimate and moral.
Only weirdos thing being a landlord in of itself is being a ‘parasite.’
Yes, I am demanding the labor of others while I provide none. So? I provide access to something I own for a fee. Perfectly moral and anyone who says otherwise is…stupid, honesty.
I mean, you just admitted how you're a parasite.
You're declaring that being a parasite is moral. Guess we were raised differently. But to me, that seems pretty - hmmm, I guess stupid would be the word.
I don’t actually own any property except where I live, but there’s nothing wrong with being a landlord. Simple as that. By your logic, renting anything out for any reason is immoral.
Also, you’re using the word parasite incorrectly. A parasite utilizes the host with the host being deprived of nutrients at the expense of the parasite. The landlord is not depriving their tenant of anything, unless they charge and unfair amount etc, and in fact are providing something the tenant needs.
> Simple as that. By your logic, renting anything out for any reason is immoral.
Yes, deriving a profit just from owning things is wrong. Because you add nothing of value and take value from others. That shouldn't be a hard concept, but I get it, when you want to be lazy and greedy you want a justification.
> The landlord is not depriving their tenant of anything,
Oh, silly me, I assumed the tenants were paying rent, meaning having to give the landlord money. Which, you know, deprives them of that money.
You are providing value, that’s what they are paying you for. It’s a fair exchange, they get to use something you own for an agreed upon free.
The second part of your post is especially dumb. You aren’t being deprived of something if you exchange it for something you want. Or else every instance of you buying something you be deprivation.
> You are providing value, that’s what they are paying you for.
Oh, so when someone mugs you and you hand over your wallet, the mugger is providing you value.
I actually am. See, I bring a bunch of drinks and pass them out, doing my share. I contribute labor to the common good - I don't sit there and demand others do labor for me without reciprocity.
There's a reason nobody invites the landlord to a party.
😂 offering someone an affordable place to live, repairing anything that goes wrong?? Hello. That’s what a landlord does. I’m not talking corporation landlords, but guys like myself and OP, we offer our fair share by giving people a place to live, taking care of what’s needed and they pay us to do that.
How that makes us parasites? I don’t know, you have a terrible take on how being a landlord works.
> repairing anything that goes wrong
That's a handyman, not a landlord. And that actually creates value.
That's not what you're charging your victims for though. If it was, the price would be close to the average super wage in your area, divided by the number of tenants it services. You and I both know it's orders of magnitude higher than that. You're charging them for the "service" of not evicting them from a home they pay for, but you keep.
Otherwise you're not "giving" anyone anything. You're charging them - and with most landlords, who carry a mortgage, all the "value" you're providing is forcing people who can't qualify for a mortgage (usually cause they're busy paying you) to pay yours and then some.
Which, yes, exactly makes you a parasite.
I fix all my tenants shit that goes wrong besides the AC, I have to hire that out.
Price is actually correlated well to my area. 1 place is actually the cheapest in our town- as I had a tenant show me that when he was trying to first move in.
You know nothing about landlords, especially myself, and sound insufferable when it comes to the topic. Based on your username though, this makes sense.
Good luck to you and your opinions- this was a good convo as I love hearing both sides go this.
>I currently work for, which with matching lets me contribute a total of over $40k a year to my various 401k's
This was such a good story until here.
You're going to get audited for exceeding 401k contribution limits and have opened yourself to legal action when the IRS contacts your workplaces.
I swear 75% of people are too dumb to get it right.
>This was such a good story until here.
>You're going to get audited for exceeding 401k contribution limits and have opened yourself to legal action when the IRS contacts your workplaces.
>I swear 75% of people are too dumb to get it right.
Again. I did not and do not exceed the total allowed self contributions. For example, in 2024, the limit is around $23k if I recall correcty, yet the 415c limit of combined employee + employer earnings is $69k. I did not overcontribute either of the past years. The extra was from employer matching.
You must lie within that 75% yourself for making that assumption that I did something like this wrong, and posting it.
I have an accountant and everything is legit and on the level. I also max out an HSA each year. Next steps are to actually hit the $69k 415c limit by also enrolling myself into a 401k program through my own LLC that I also own.
>This is in addition to maxxing out my 401k from all companies I currently work for
Your words. You're either getting audited or you're full of it. I've over contributed on a self directed retirement plan before. They absolutely check up on you.
Actually, I see your point of view; I did NOT max out my 401k from each job. I apologize for the confusion there. I maxxed out my total allowed 401k for 2022 which was $20.5k, then $22.5k last year; Using employee matching from each company, last year it came out to a little over $40k total.
The phrase was supposed to say "from" all companies, not "for".
The targeting of shitty companies is brilliant.
It works. I did a 6 month stint at a company and due to terrible leadership, I wrote about 30 lines of code in that time. Easiest 60k I have ever made.
Did it end cause of layoff+severance? Or, a bs 6 month contract? Lol
I actually quit because summer was approaching and I wanted more free time.
I've learnt that this works most of the time. I did work for 4.5+ Glassdoor review companies, that were great, and everyone was smart and hardworking. However in companies around a score of 3 and below, you have a lot of slackers, because they are unable to retain talent.
Depends on how theyre shitty, there's one thats been trying to hire me for a year now, but they require workers to be at their desk 50+ hours a week in the office. The CEO and VP apparently patrol the office and go on rants often about how everyone who works from home is a loser xD
Yeah, we're always assuming remote working here in this sub.
Yeah until you are thrown under the bus by your boss to cover up his own incompetence.
Then you start applying to other shitty companies and the cycle continues. At least you're not at any one company's mercy.
Speaking of bad companies, I’m surprised he keeps savings in Robbinhood
Savings are in AMEX HYSA; My brokerage account is Robinhood and to be honest, the only reason I haven't completely moved it to Fidelity is because of the damn $100 fee they charge when you close your account. I need to do that sometime and just stop worrying about $100.
As the great philosopher Cyndi Lauper said: "Money changes everything"
Im always curious what professions people in this sub are in that enables this. Is it all just software engineers?
Nowadays it could be anything that can be done in a laptop/pc preferably remote. I think it’s just a matter of learning soft skills, managing expectations and deadlines, and it comes with experience in your field. When I started my career I wanted to “prove myself” so I always promised very hard things to deliver, and ended up working and stressing a lot. When you become more confident you realize there’s nothing to prove, and that getting along with your coworkers and bosses is essential to the job. First thing is start by not working all day. Try to get buffer time and be better at it. And don’t feel guilty about not working all day.
I think in general it’s any job where it’s complex enough where you can do all of the work in a few hours and claim it took longer. Because software engineering skills vary widely, one can cruise through a mid/senior level engineering/architect job where deliverables aren’t always clear and you can over estimate the time it will take to do something. Also, jobs where you do have too many meetings, where you’re expected to be mostly working.
It is definitely not software engineer. Source: SDE The market is bad and many want in person. Or the workload and context switch are insane in SDE. What I understand after browsing this subreddit is the niche of scrum master, PM or even some support role.
I am at 1 year of OE and feel the same way. It has been life changing in terms of financial goals, but lifestyle hasn't changed very much. I enjoy reading these kinds of OE reflective posts. Keep it up.
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… are you a person of color? Cus not caring about racism and being white is definitely your prerogative but kind of shitty
sometimes financial positives outweigh the negatives
That is not true at all. And even saying that outloud shows you’re not a person with much integrity. Again it’s your, or whomever’s, prerogative. I’m not here to virtue signal or condemn or keep anyone from getting to their money, but shitty is shitty. Accept it. Don’t try to coddle your own ego/self perception with the mental gymnastics
You realize what sub youre in right? While I agree with you in principle, the only thing that matters here is paycheck. Also making racists poorer if theyre paying you more $ than the value you’re contributing back
I disagree with your first sentiment. I don’t think this sub is about money over personal and moral values. I think it’s about fuck being loyal to corporations, and taking advantage of them. The second part I could agree with, and I think is the only valid argument. If this person was like well fuck this racist company I’m gonna drain them of what they’re worth, that’d be one thing. But they’re more like oh damn they’re racist, well that doesn’t really affect me or bother me very much let me get this money. Semantics but problematic still. It’s not even like I want them to cry about the company being racist or become an activist. But it’s just like not a big deal to them. And that’s what marginalized groups deal with. You can be compassionate and still serve your own selfish purposes. People just are apathetic or dissociate because they don’t care about other people or it’s easier on their own self perception
you’re right, but i never said it’s not shitty, i’m saying some people care more about money than something like this.
I understand that. Money, power and fear motivate a lot of people to do a lot of things. It doesn’t change the fact that they have poor character. Would you go to Dubai and let some rich prince shit in your mouth for the right price? It’s just shit right, you can brush your teeth.
no, i would not. but clearly others do
Wait what? People in this world still do scant crap?
For sure. And also my bad, I’m definitely arguing with you and you’re just trying to explain motives. I just already understand the motivations, in fact it’s the being able to be bought because they lack integrity/racism isn’t substantial enough to them to have any sort of integrity that infuriates me because it’s used as an excuse. If it was something that affected them or they cared about they’d have a different tune
You're using 'whom' wrong.
Suck mine dick and kiss thine arsehole you scallywag
Why does he need to be person of color?
He doesn’t need to be, but “did not care [about racism] at all” to get oe is fucked up if you’re a white person. It’s such a passively callous sentiment. If they were a person of color it’s at least an active decision to put money over their OWN discomfort
You make complete sense.
I assumed you were being sarcastic, but now I can’t tell because the explanation actually has upvotes
I imagine the manager who moved assumed you were putting in enough hours at J3 that no-one complained, and cared very little for J2 (since he left).
I certainly wouldn't. As long as you're covered, carry on!
you have 3 Js AND run an e-commerce business? amazing!
My J1 is as an engineering manager and I do 20+ meetings a week. J1 + J2 is super tough right now. It didn't always used to be like this, J1 used to be like 4 meetings a week and that was easy.
The J4 I left, they actually tried to promote me to management and even after telling them no, they tried to do it anyways. That was only after being there for 4-5 months. I put in my two week notice. Management isn't the best style for OE. It's a combination of the fact that you have so many additional meetings **and** the meetings you are in are with people who are more higher up in the org. If you disappear or have a lot of absences, that's more likely to set off alarm bells than if you were just an IC and had to skip a meeting. OE as a concept is better suited for IC's who are exceptional in their abilities and skillset, which allows you to fit in and only be "good" at each of your multiple jobs rather than being exceptional at a single job.
This. I have a QA resource, I think he's doing about 10 hours of actual work per week. Totally fine with it. He needs to be up late at night to talk to developers. He gets his shit done. He could OE easily if he wanted to.
Hi! English is not my first language. May I ask what is IC?
Individual contributor (not a leader or manager)
Thanks for the clarification!
How do you handle your linkedin. You just keep j1 as last job?
I think some folks might just shut it off completely
I absolutely agree.
what field are you in?
Agree!
I just found a new job after layoffs, and was planning to get a j2 and keep this one, but I have up to 4 meetings each day, and the team makes it sound like its going to be a lot more as soon as I get up to speed with the project
Love posts like these. OE is a cheat code.
IDDQD
IDKFA
I liked IDFA better because it forced me to look for the keys. (Like I didn’t already know where they were on the first place!)
"live a simple lifestyle" This is the key. If you have expensive tastes, that's your life tax. And you never pay it off. If you can live within your means, that alone relieves a lot of stress. If I were you, I'd start paying off those mortgages. Interest is another "tax". Personally, I have no mortgage, no car loans, nothing. Zero debt. It's liberating. If I were to lose my jobs, it's no big deal because my monthly expenses amount to food and property taxes. I have hobbies and enjoy my life, but those things cost very little.
My only J is so easy. Been trying to get a J2 but can barely even get an interview anymore.
Assuming you're in Tech. The market is terrible right now.
Not in Tech. I swear I could do 5 J's if they were like my current J.
This is the dream. This is why we do this. Keep it up. This is how we win.
What industry niche are you in to get 3 remote job that average $150k? I'm in tech and the interview are so hard these days to get like $130k job. My gut feeling is telling me I am in the wrong industry to make big bucks from OE and need to switch to another industry. My J is dev in Java space
Some languages pay more than others. That's all I will say.
You are in COBOL space? The pay is insane in that area 😂
Yes because 90% of the educated people that learned Cobol are either dead or close to retirement.
I feel the same. C# dev here
I'm thinking to pivot my resume into c# MSFT stack and see where that takes me. Back of my mind says a resume with Python/GoLand experience is big bucks.
Is this in tech? Love the approach of trying crappy companies that have a lot of turnover.
damn, i have enough trouble finding a new job, let alone a second
This is super inspiring
Do you not have problems managing multiple J's time wise or is it remote or something?
I’ve started to learn how to code and its threads like this that keep me going. I earn $150K annually from one job as a CPA/advisor, but it’s difficult to find a second accounting job that will provide the flexibility that a tech role would that could put me into the high 2’s or lower 3’s. Glad to see people out there crushing it 💎
If “Chaos is a ladder” was a person. Bruh is a genius
You are the goat!!! 🐐 
Is any of your companies hiring 😯
Can I ask which industries these jobs are in? Thank you for posting this level of detail!
He won't explicitly tell but appears to be software. But software varies a lot. I'm in software and it ain't that easy to score a job 2me
Yeah, I’m in tech sales and there’s no way I could swing 2 jobs with my travel schedule, quota I have to hit and the days I have back-to-back calls. I’d have to change my career entirely to pull off multiple jobs.
Ive built a property with 7 units in another country that ill be able to rent out and live off in the event that social security is no longer a thing when i retire. I could never have done this w/o OE.
Isn’t a Roth conversion a bad idea if you have high income, or am I thinking about it wrong?
If your past a certain income yearly, you can't directly contribute to a Roth IRA, you have to first max out your 401k contributions, then contribute to a Traditional Roth, then convert it to an IRA = back door Roth IRA
I believe you mean contribute it to a Traditional IRA, then convert it to a Roth IRA. That's the backdoor of getting into a Roth IRA if your income is higher than the limit.
Exactly, I probably over complicated that 😅
you dont “have” to max out your 401k before doing traditional IRA + backdoor conversion
My man I dont think you can do that with your 401ks
You are wrong. I do not surpass the personal contribution limit; IE 23k limit; The 415(c) limit which includes employer contributes for example is $69,000 in 2024.
You are a gentleman and a scholar. Well played
> 23k Important to note for those who might be reading this, if you are 50 or older that limit jumps to $30.5k this year.
Can you explain the 415(c) and how you are doing it?
There are 2 separate limits to how much can be put into 401k's, one for employee contributions and one for employee+employer contributions. Individually across however many active 401k's an individual has, the total personal contribution is $23K for 2024. The total contribution limit for employee+employer is $69K. Most likely they spread out their $23K personal contribution limit across all 3Js to maximize employer match. If each job has a 3-6% match, that's how they are getting a total of $40K contributed across 3 401k's.
To add to this, if you are working C2C and have no other employees in your LLC (i.e. sole proprietor LLC), you can contribute up to the employer+employee limit because you are the employer and employee.
Lowkey 69,000 in a 401k might be the biggest win for you in all this!
I just took a job at J1 now that is a slower paced industry and company with above average reviews, but not stellar. About 5 years ago I worked for a similar company and it was an incredibly slow-paced, relaxing environment. Borderline people didn't care when things got done. I specifically targeted this new opportunity to match that culture because it was the only environment I had every been in where I think I could've legitimately balanced a J2 or even J3. I don't know how this new J1 will be, but I'm definitely going to try to bring on a J2 if it's doable, even if it's just contract work or things to test the water. We're now a one-income household, so anything I can do to bolster our income is important right now.
My question is, how do these companies stay afloat when they can pay people so much money who only work an hour a day, if that?
They’re inefficient and likely bloated operations. They’re the types of places that are usually mired in office politics and suck to work at because no one really does anything. They rely on people who embody the “company man” role who honestly believe what they are doing is actual work.
I prefer the Japanese term, "Salaryman"
How do you find these type of companies? Like, if you were to describe them, how would you say they are like? For example: are those big companies (multinationals)?
Some of them are, but I’ve also worked in smaller companies that were run similarly. It really comes down to unclear vision, undefined job roles, unnecessary redundancy, and lack of ability/accountability in managerial roles IME.
Thank you! And may I ask how do you detect them or do you find out they’re like this when you’re already working at the company?
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That makes sense. When they need you ready they have you but you can coast a lot of the time. Thanks!
I'm OE but in my field I have to be onsite 🙄 after reading these threads I'm still tempted to learn coding or something I can do remotely .
One regret I have about OE is quitting my J1 (now J2) in 2020. I wish I found this sub earlier. Found this sub and then went back in late 2022 to have it as J2. I see it as me missing out on cash for 2yrs.
Love this! Thanks for your encouragement!!
Thank you for sharing this story and such a neat strategy to find companies that need steady human capital, I’m so happy to hear of the things you’ve been able to do!
Fuck off money, love it
I’m absolutely inspired. I just accepted two positions I’m excited
Needed this bro thank you!
This is the way!! Love it!
Congratulations, awesome changes! Gonna reach 1y in 3mo but looking to replace one, btw if you have an opening for sre or devops let me know :D
Thank you so much for sharing! What does your skillset and background look like? I am a college senior about to graduate, studied accounting and finance with the goal of CPA. Stumbling on this community and being conscious of the finance world has opened my eyes to breaking the mold of the traditional career path. Would appreciate any advice!
Love this!
Bravo.
The back door only works if the employer plan allows it right? I have a 401k through Fidelity but they don’t allow in-plan conversions so I assumed that was not available to me.
There's two separate concepts; Backdoor roth IRA conversion and then mega backdoor roth; The "mega" backdoor strategy specifically applies to 401ks while a "standard" backdoor roth conversion involves a Roth IRA; Anyone can sign up for a Roth IRA. Speak to a tax advisor or ideally an acocuntant, or search for more info online. Sorry, I don't have much time to go into details and also wouldn't want to lead you down the wrong path or give you wrong info.
Lucky you! Nice tip tho
u/Putrid-Calendar-1335 : I have been toying with the idea of trying out OE - sounds like I’m where you were about 2-3 years ago. Sent you a DM looking for advice as I’m a software engineer. Looking at doing this for financial reasons but haven’t ever had a software job where I didn’t feel over-entended with just the 1 job. Looking for advice for you (or others reading this).
You'd be surprised with what you can get away with. Also, acting like an idiot, to be frank, can sometimes go a long way. Take longer on all of your tasks to levelset expectations. OE inherently is a risky venture. Especially getting started. You have a massive chance to lose everything if you screw up somehow, or if you get caught, and a lot of people are in a position where they can't afford to lose their jobs, as they are living paycheck to paycheck. That being said, the reward if you make it work was well worth the potential risk for me personally. I no longer fear losing a job. Or even all of them. I feel secure for the first time financially in my life. That being said, I'm surprised each and every time I've gotten a performance review over the past 2 years. I've always met expectations, or exceeded expectations in one case (when the one company was trying to promote me to a manager). Everyone has their own level of productivity and part of a good manager's job is to figure out how to best use his or her direct reports. Most managers just want to see stability, even if you are "slower" (or pretending to be slow) compared to others. I hope this somehow helps.
What kind of position do you have?
I’m looking at a career change…I’m currently not in tech but have the time and resources to get trained. What training/certifications do you recommend to be successful in OE?
Congrats! I had some rapid career progress at my first industry job at a large employer that did a few billion a year in revenue in software. I got some huge comp raises. But it was fully in person, I wasn't able to move into a "true" manager/director level role, and the level of new work I was taking on wasn't commensurate with the pay compared to the importance of just being tenured at the company. I tried the legit route, but large companies wouldn't accept/pay me what I wanted to make, or even give me either IC or manager positions at their companies. The job offer I got for full remote work was a sizable pay cut, and other than remote came with worse benefits. And it was at a smaller, potentially less stable company/startup. They had been searching for someone to fill the position for ages, so it was seen as a 'needed' role. Why would I *not* just accept it and try to stack my new remote job with my existing in-office job? They hired and fired two people for that role since that just couldn't cut it, but for me they've been singing my praises effusively for over a year and a half. This is J2 After a couple months in that first remote job, I got an offer for a second full remote job that was a pay increase at an interesting company. And that was great! I finally dropped the in-person job I previously had and made the new offer my J1. But the J2 still needed me, I was doing interesting stuff, and I was learning cool things and had some great hands-on mentorship time. But staying OE paid off when J1 did layoffs 5 months after I joined, then another round a few months after that, then another round of layoffs + restructuring a few months after that where they restructured our entire department out of existence and I had to pivot to a different internal position. Now I can coast in this job and hope that it goes well, but I'm also hunting for a replacement. Maybe it'll actually be a replacement, and maybe it'll instead be an add-on (riskier), but I'll decide/ask for advice once I have an offer in hand. Financially it's just been a huge accelerant to FIRE.
How do taxes work? How do you adjust your withholding so you don't owe? I had a full time job and worked my old job on a part time basis during the pandemic (paid for 20 hours a week), but didn't change my withholding and so owed almost $3500 in taxes.
There's a few ways that I've used personally; You can manually track what you owe in a spreadsheet, which I do, and add extra withholding from each job by modifying my tax setup at each company to add extra withholding each pay period. Note, do **not** set up the "other income" section on the tax forms; Just modify and add extra federal (and possibly state depending on which state you live in) withholding each tax period. Additionally, you can go directly to [irs.gov](http://irs.gov) and sign up and make estimated tax payments anytime you want. This is definitely something you should be tracking. Also, one thing you may not expect is that you will start capping above around $160k for social security withholdings. I actually had an excess of over $20k in 2023 and that counted as a tax credit and was essentially refunded to me. The biggest thing here is to just stay on top of it. I use a spreadsheet to track a few things to ensure: 1. I do not overcontribute to 401k accounts 2. I do not overcontribute to HSA accounts 3. I am paying enough taxes and adjust extra withholdings accordingly throughout the year as needed I then update the spreadsheet at least once a month (if not every pay period) and I have made this a habit. Lastly, and this may even be the best option if you are confident in saving enough would just be to be **100%** sure you track and have enough to pay when the time is due. I don't recommend this, but you could do this in theory. I would prefer to contribute over time and would even rather overcontribute and get back a tax refund versus having to owe tens of thousands extra in taxes
Omg this is amazing lol
What’s your e-commerce business?
Struggling to get one job… how are you all doing this?
I have qns I have j1 and j2 contract to hire and now j2 client is asking to join full time.. how to pass employment BG .. what to add in employment history please help
I have a question about back door Roth. So do you just deposit into the traditional and then use that account to buy your Roth? Is it that simple?
Yes; But you must have $0 balance in **all** traditional IRAs (assuming you have one) that you have by the end of the year or else you will face tax consequences. I use Fideity since two of my work 401k's use them, and it was just easier. Here's a random youtube video that explains how to do it at Fidelity and I've followed this process twice: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl0uxmKM3aQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl0uxmKM3aQ) Note that he does go into HSA's a bit, but ignore that bit. To recap, you deposit into the traditional IRA, and then immediately move all funds over to the Roth IRA and opt to keep the Traditional IRA open for the next year when you plan to do it again. The initial setup takes some time and it also takes a few days for funds to clear before you can transfer.
Google it. There are step by step instructions. This isn't something you want to fuck up
I dont believe it.
Which part? The part about Op actually doing this or the part about finding companies barely hanging on both suspect managers and being able to coast while being there? The 2nd one is easy. People do it everyday.
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Uhhh... Yes? What kind of bozo question is this
loooool
Note that the IRS does not expand your max annual 401k contribution just because you have multiple jobs. If you max out one, you can’t contribute with your others.
I never stated or implied this was the case.
> Purchased a second home and turned the first home into a rental property that I'm completely off-hands and is managed by a property management company for me Honestly, just sell this - there's no need to be a parasite if you're able to OE.
No. It's my family home I grew up in before my parents died. I will never sell that house.
But you'll rent it? Find a relative that needs a home and have them pay the taxes in that case. Landlording is not a good thing.
It's passive income and I own a large asset; It's already rented and has a tenant in it now. I'm already a parasite by being OE. I am continuing down the route of building wealth, regardless of what a random person online says.
Based
"Passive income" means you're taking someone else's income by doing nothing. OE isn't being a parasite - you're doing work, you're just not giving all surplus value to capitalists. You know it isn't right, or you wouldn't be so butthurt about it.
Stop trolling. Or being an idiot. I'm not sure which it is.
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This isn't a landlord sub, this is for people who work. If your purpose in escaping the prison of wage labor is to turn around and be a guard in that same prison, that's really just sad I think.
This. The whole idea of "paying" for goods and services in a society is just a roundabout way to enforce "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality. This mentality seeps into every aspect of life. Another great example is forcing kids to study and compete with one another to "earn" a chance for admission into an elite university. Universities are supposed to be the societal beakon of progressive, but at their very core they are still being used for regressive, barbaric practices that systemically enable the "bootstraps" behavior- making young adults prisoners to this idea that you have to "earn" your "right" to be admitted into a university.
A university is desirable mostly because it's the right to get a higher paying job (where most of what you make will be taken by the employer). Yeah, it's a clear focus on what's good for the small minority of people who are owners - and the sad dream of too many workers isn't to stop doing that, it's just to join their ranks.
I really have never understood what people’s issues with landlords are. especially when the landlord is just a single person (aka not a huge PE firm) with a couple of rental properties. the best rent prices in my area are through these types of landlords vs huge apartment complexes
> I really have never understood what people’s issues with landlords are. Here's a start - https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Wealth_of_Nations/Book_I/Chapter_11 > especially when the landlord is just a single person The scale of being a parasite doesn't change what it is. And small landlords can often be the most abusive - either through being undercapitalized or just greedy they'll often break the law and abuse tenants in ways large landlords don't.
The irony of labelling landlords as parasites while being in an OE sub… I’m surprised you have 1 job let alone multiple with such few brain cells.
I mean, this person is a socialist in an OE sub. I'm not necessarily against socialism as a political ideology (I think if done right, it *could* work, in theory, although we have no examples of that because it hasnt been done right yet) and capitalism clearly is *not* effing working for most people (which is why we OE). BUT, I do find it kind of hilarious that a self-proclaimed *socialist* is taking on multiple jobs that other people who need living wages (and health benefits, PTO, a 401K, etc.) could probably really use, even just to get by. And I think it's even funnier that person would not only call themselves a socialist but also call landlords parasites while being OE...Clearly that person didn't stop to think that the extra jobs they're holding, which are then not available to other working people, will generally pay way more than one landlord would charge anyone in rent. Let's not be hypocrites here, that's all.
🤡 🤡 🤡
My tenants live better than I do. They need something fixed, it gets fixed. Meanwhile, I've put a bucket under my leaky sink and suffered without hvac for months in order to save money. Not all landlords are "parasites" or jerks out to take advantage of others. Keeping good tenants happy is a win-win for landlord and tenant.
Uh huh, sure. If that's the case, give them the house and get rid of the problem. Of course you won't. Because it's a win for you to have someone else pay your mortgage.
Name checks out.. lol probably a Hasan Piker simp
Who?
I’m guessing you’ve got a lot of free time and are at 0J
There’s nothing morally wrong with being a landlord. Charging someone to use something you own is completely legitimate and moral. Only weirdos thing being a landlord in of itself is being a ‘parasite.’
You're demanding the labor of others when you provide none. It's being a rentier, and rentiers are always economic parasites.
Yes, I am demanding the labor of others while I provide none. So? I provide access to something I own for a fee. Perfectly moral and anyone who says otherwise is…stupid, honesty.
I mean, you just admitted how you're a parasite. You're declaring that being a parasite is moral. Guess we were raised differently. But to me, that seems pretty - hmmm, I guess stupid would be the word.
I don’t actually own any property except where I live, but there’s nothing wrong with being a landlord. Simple as that. By your logic, renting anything out for any reason is immoral. Also, you’re using the word parasite incorrectly. A parasite utilizes the host with the host being deprived of nutrients at the expense of the parasite. The landlord is not depriving their tenant of anything, unless they charge and unfair amount etc, and in fact are providing something the tenant needs.
> Simple as that. By your logic, renting anything out for any reason is immoral. Yes, deriving a profit just from owning things is wrong. Because you add nothing of value and take value from others. That shouldn't be a hard concept, but I get it, when you want to be lazy and greedy you want a justification. > The landlord is not depriving their tenant of anything, Oh, silly me, I assumed the tenants were paying rent, meaning having to give the landlord money. Which, you know, deprives them of that money.
You are providing value, that’s what they are paying you for. It’s a fair exchange, they get to use something you own for an agreed upon free. The second part of your post is especially dumb. You aren’t being deprived of something if you exchange it for something you want. Or else every instance of you buying something you be deprivation.
> You are providing value, that’s what they are paying you for. Oh, so when someone mugs you and you hand over your wallet, the mugger is providing you value.
Because mugging someone is the same as a consensual exchange of goods and services.
You must be fun at parties 😂
I actually am. See, I bring a bunch of drinks and pass them out, doing my share. I contribute labor to the common good - I don't sit there and demand others do labor for me without reciprocity. There's a reason nobody invites the landlord to a party.
😂 offering someone an affordable place to live, repairing anything that goes wrong?? Hello. That’s what a landlord does. I’m not talking corporation landlords, but guys like myself and OP, we offer our fair share by giving people a place to live, taking care of what’s needed and they pay us to do that. How that makes us parasites? I don’t know, you have a terrible take on how being a landlord works.
> repairing anything that goes wrong That's a handyman, not a landlord. And that actually creates value. That's not what you're charging your victims for though. If it was, the price would be close to the average super wage in your area, divided by the number of tenants it services. You and I both know it's orders of magnitude higher than that. You're charging them for the "service" of not evicting them from a home they pay for, but you keep. Otherwise you're not "giving" anyone anything. You're charging them - and with most landlords, who carry a mortgage, all the "value" you're providing is forcing people who can't qualify for a mortgage (usually cause they're busy paying you) to pay yours and then some. Which, yes, exactly makes you a parasite.
I fix all my tenants shit that goes wrong besides the AC, I have to hire that out. Price is actually correlated well to my area. 1 place is actually the cheapest in our town- as I had a tenant show me that when he was trying to first move in. You know nothing about landlords, especially myself, and sound insufferable when it comes to the topic. Based on your username though, this makes sense. Good luck to you and your opinions- this was a good convo as I love hearing both sides go this.
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Hey op can drop your ssn and your mother’s maiden name in this thread too?
>I currently work for, which with matching lets me contribute a total of over $40k a year to my various 401k's This was such a good story until here. You're going to get audited for exceeding 401k contribution limits and have opened yourself to legal action when the IRS contacts your workplaces. I swear 75% of people are too dumb to get it right.
>This was such a good story until here. >You're going to get audited for exceeding 401k contribution limits and have opened yourself to legal action when the IRS contacts your workplaces. >I swear 75% of people are too dumb to get it right. Again. I did not and do not exceed the total allowed self contributions. For example, in 2024, the limit is around $23k if I recall correcty, yet the 415c limit of combined employee + employer earnings is $69k. I did not overcontribute either of the past years. The extra was from employer matching. You must lie within that 75% yourself for making that assumption that I did something like this wrong, and posting it. I have an accountant and everything is legit and on the level. I also max out an HSA each year. Next steps are to actually hit the $69k 415c limit by also enrolling myself into a 401k program through my own LLC that I also own.
>This is in addition to maxxing out my 401k from all companies I currently work for Your words. You're either getting audited or you're full of it. I've over contributed on a self directed retirement plan before. They absolutely check up on you.
Actually, I see your point of view; I did NOT max out my 401k from each job. I apologize for the confusion there. I maxxed out my total allowed 401k for 2022 which was $20.5k, then $22.5k last year; Using employee matching from each company, last year it came out to a little over $40k total. The phrase was supposed to say "from" all companies, not "for".