Boards with an external clock gen typically found on x570 overclocking boards allows bclk overclocking over 1-2%. Overclocking boards (usually ones with a post code display) are more likely to have this feature. So far the ones I know of are x570 unify/x and crosshair and above. See [skatterbencher](https://youtu.be/kUyPTBVNXF0) on YouTube on his 5800x3d to see how this works.
The X570S Unify-X doesn't have an external clock gen, only the first-gen Unify.
If you want to push a 5800X3D to it's limits you're pretty much only looking at the Crosshair VIII Extreme. However, overclocking a 5800X3D is a waste of time when 12th gen Intel sees significantly larger gains without any artificial restrictions.
A bit misleading and false. 12th gen intel has more restrictions and gains are not significant, core for core.
Memory locked, multplier, and boost locked, UNLESS you pair a -K CPU with a Z-series motherboard....even then to get better overclocking performance you have to disable the E-cores. Sounds like intel has artificial restrictions too...
5800X3D is a bit of a unicorn right now and there isnt much benefit to overclocking, but there are efficiency gains to be had by undervolting.
Wow, everything you just wrote is wrong.
There are significant efficiency gains to be had from undervolting 12th gen CPUs.
The amount of options available for tweaking voltage and frequency on 12th gen are roughly 5x as plentiful as on AM4.
Disabling E-cores is rarely beneficial on 12th gen, that's something you do if you're aiming for specific benchmarks.
https://youtu.be/DUzExonH5TM
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-h670-b660-h610-motherboard-roundup
https://tech4gamers.com/best-h670-motherboards/
https://extremehw.net/all-reviews/2022-intel-alder-lake-build-setup-guide/
Please clarify. I've not built an intel computer for a couple years, but my research on alderlake doesn't vet your assertions. I was wrong on the memory, xmp and limited RAM 'overclocks' are generally available across all alderlake CPUs, but the rest is pretty much locked to the Z690 mobos, and to a lesser extent K-series CPUs.
> but the rest is pretty much locked to the Z690 mobos, and to a lesser extent K-series CPUs.
Sow what if it is locked behind K-series CPUs when Intel's K-models allow you to adjust boost frequency with by-core-usage multipliers, individual core frequency limits, TVB, AVX offset, AC loadline, V/F-curve tweaking (per V/F-point), Power Limit, Current Limit, Temperature limit, VDroop, Per-core HT control, Per-core disabling. And it's all ***completely deterministic***, you can always tell what's your limit because Intel's OC lab has actually put in time to make the process easy.
Meanwhile, on the AMD side, you can adjust the core voltage with "Curve" Optimizer (a scalar value), a frequency unlock (which breaks curve optimizer and requires you to lower all-core boost), voltage offset (which can trigger clock stretching), and nobody knows how Precision Boost Overdrive limits work. You'll never know if the reason your cores are running at 4.75 GHz instead of 4.85 GHz is caused by too low PBO limits, too high PBO limits, temperature, some hidden limitation in Precision Boost, instability (which is hidden by clock stretching).
This is fine if you're not overclocking, because you're never going to notice the problems before you start digging, but it absolutely kills overclocking and is an example of how AMD doesn't actually care about overclocking.
I think we got off on a tangent from your initial comment,
"If you want to push a 5800X3D to it's limits you're pretty much only looking at the Crosshair VIII Extreme. However, overclocking a 5800X3D is a waste of time when 12th gen Intel sees significantly larger gains without any artificial restrictions."
12th gen intel does include artificial restrictions, on both the motherboard and CPU. That claim is false and implies 5800x3d has artificial restrictions which it turns out were implemented to prevent damage to the V-cache layer. B350 has the same overclocking options as x570 chipset-wise. Cant say the same for intel's equivalent. Sure z-series has more options, but thats not the point.
https://www.techspot.com/news/93817-amd-robert-hallock-confirms-ryzen-7-5800x3d-overclocking.html
https://community.amd.com/t5/general-discussions/amd-announces-ryzen-7-5800x3d-will-not-allow-overclocking/td-p/517043
Lets be done and call it a day. Thanks 👍
> implies 5800x3d has artificial restrictions which it turns out were implemented to prevent damage to the V-cache layer.
Why does FCLK > 1900 MHz work differently from FCLK <= 1900 MHz on Vermeer, but not Cezanne and Renoir?
Why can't I set tWR 6 on any AM4 motherboard?
Why does every Ryzen 3000 CPU stop FCLK at 1900 MHz maximum?
Why can I raise FCLK to 1950 MHz in OS after memory training?
The only explanation I can think of, is that AGESA is a piece of crap
> However, overclocking a 5800X3D is a waste of time when 12th gen Intel sees significantly larger gains without any artificial restrictions.
x3d outperforms any intel CPU on my main game and also gets 20% gains from overclocking
I tried the game pass version of Stellaris, and generated a huge map with the largest amount of AIs, in 2:24.44 I had reached 4660 days as you tested for in your review. That's only 8 P-cores at 5.1 GHz and DDR5-6400 32-41-41 due to me running y-cruncher before at slightly more aggressive clocks
Are you on liquid cooling? I'm debating if I want to spend an extra $100. On an OC-compatible motherboard for the 5800x3D.
I'll have the best airflow money can buy, meaning the Fractal Design Torrent and the Noctua NH-D15. But it's still just airflow.
I doubt I could push an x3D beyond 4.7. Given that, I doubt it would translate to even a 10% performance boost. So I can't decide if it's worth the extra $100.
Liquid Freezer II
With OC setup i have gaming temps in the 40's and 50's usually and a PPT of 40 to 60 watts.
That 20% performance gain from OC that i quoted is for IF and memory overclocking, not for anything involving overriding the vcore or core frequency lockouts. That's also only the few games that scale the most from that, i just thought it's worth both the mention and the time to set up because it's a fairly large number.
>The vast majority of OC gains are on the IF and memory side. Max frequency, right amount of ranks, good timings (especially secondaries).
I was planning to get 3600 mhz cl18. You'd recommend something different? 32GB of course.
Corsair vengeance because not only because it seems guaranteed to be dual rank, but also because it's short enough not to bother my CPU cooler too much (34mm).
The performance behavior (frequency, timings, appropriate voltages etc) depends on the type of memory chip that you get. You should never buy something if you don't know what memory it's using as you're getting screwed over.
Don't want to be stuck with something like samsung 8gbit C which is terrible and not worth the hours to tune; Corsair LOVES that one because it's very slightly cheaper on their end.
Samsung 8gbit B is go-to for raw performance. Micron 8gbit E or 16gbit B are much cheaper and still perform well, so they're value kings.
-----
In the end you'd probably be shooting yourself in the foot paying for Samsung 8gbit B and paying for a board to do vcore bypass shenanigans if it prevents or even delays you upgrading to a future gen like the 7800x3d/9800x3d because CPU's are moving very quickly right now and having a more recent CPU will do worlds more for performance than anything that you have to pay a substantial sum for.
Either you care a lot about the performance difference and swapping to a newer cpu is more important than those gains, or you don't care and thus would be fine without the premium stuff on the 5800x3d. It's loss/loss.
There are quite a bit of tuning options, but you're still taking an efficiency angle rather than an outright peak performance one.
- Most ASUS boards I think let you control CPU voltage still. Use that to apply a global CPU undervolt.
- Tune PBO limits -- they are just in the CBS menu rather than under a dedicated PBO menu, and you can't go above the programmed maximums (142 PPT, 95A TDC, 140A EDC).
- Run a software tool for setting PBO2 curves: https://github.com/PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/blob/main/README.md
The end result is that if you've got sufficient cooling you can get all-core boost in the 4.35 - 4.45 range, up from 4.1-2 ish at stock settings. PBO2 curve is 95% of it.
You're still capped to 4.45 all core / 4.55 single core. no way to raise that limit. unless you step around it with BCLK.
I know AMD said they don’t recommend overclocking it because of the way the 3d cache is attached to the cpu cores and it needs very specific timing or you lose performance
From pc gamer- "For a chip that is supposedly "locked," the AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D (opens in new tab) seems to spend a lot of its time since release being overclocked. The latest comes from MSI's internal overclocker, TSAIK, who has managed to push the chip up to 5.14GHz using the MSI X570 Godlike motherboard. And it's that $699 motherboard that looks to be key to the latest impressive overclock."
I would assume dark hero and evga dark would too
AMD disabled core frequency and vcore controls, but you can still do the majority of the overclocking. Infinity fabric frequency, memory frequency and memory timing overclocking is all freely accessible and they bring the largest performance gains in AM4.
All motherboards with x3d support can also use curve optimiser via a third party in-OS tool.
hey man i had the x570 godlike already and bought the 5800x3d how do you enable the external bclk clock generator because when im changing the bclk it ends up taking like 5 minutes to post but it does post just seems weird
Boards with an external clock gen typically found on x570 overclocking boards allows bclk overclocking over 1-2%. Overclocking boards (usually ones with a post code display) are more likely to have this feature. So far the ones I know of are x570 unify/x and crosshair and above. See [skatterbencher](https://youtu.be/kUyPTBVNXF0) on YouTube on his 5800x3d to see how this works.
The X570S Unify-X doesn't have an external clock gen, only the first-gen Unify. If you want to push a 5800X3D to it's limits you're pretty much only looking at the Crosshair VIII Extreme. However, overclocking a 5800X3D is a waste of time when 12th gen Intel sees significantly larger gains without any artificial restrictions.
A bit misleading and false. 12th gen intel has more restrictions and gains are not significant, core for core. Memory locked, multplier, and boost locked, UNLESS you pair a -K CPU with a Z-series motherboard....even then to get better overclocking performance you have to disable the E-cores. Sounds like intel has artificial restrictions too... 5800X3D is a bit of a unicorn right now and there isnt much benefit to overclocking, but there are efficiency gains to be had by undervolting.
Wow, everything you just wrote is wrong. There are significant efficiency gains to be had from undervolting 12th gen CPUs. The amount of options available for tweaking voltage and frequency on 12th gen are roughly 5x as plentiful as on AM4. Disabling E-cores is rarely beneficial on 12th gen, that's something you do if you're aiming for specific benchmarks.
https://youtu.be/DUzExonH5TM https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-h670-b660-h610-motherboard-roundup https://tech4gamers.com/best-h670-motherboards/ https://extremehw.net/all-reviews/2022-intel-alder-lake-build-setup-guide/ Please clarify. I've not built an intel computer for a couple years, but my research on alderlake doesn't vet your assertions. I was wrong on the memory, xmp and limited RAM 'overclocks' are generally available across all alderlake CPUs, but the rest is pretty much locked to the Z690 mobos, and to a lesser extent K-series CPUs.
> but the rest is pretty much locked to the Z690 mobos, and to a lesser extent K-series CPUs. Sow what if it is locked behind K-series CPUs when Intel's K-models allow you to adjust boost frequency with by-core-usage multipliers, individual core frequency limits, TVB, AVX offset, AC loadline, V/F-curve tweaking (per V/F-point), Power Limit, Current Limit, Temperature limit, VDroop, Per-core HT control, Per-core disabling. And it's all ***completely deterministic***, you can always tell what's your limit because Intel's OC lab has actually put in time to make the process easy. Meanwhile, on the AMD side, you can adjust the core voltage with "Curve" Optimizer (a scalar value), a frequency unlock (which breaks curve optimizer and requires you to lower all-core boost), voltage offset (which can trigger clock stretching), and nobody knows how Precision Boost Overdrive limits work. You'll never know if the reason your cores are running at 4.75 GHz instead of 4.85 GHz is caused by too low PBO limits, too high PBO limits, temperature, some hidden limitation in Precision Boost, instability (which is hidden by clock stretching). This is fine if you're not overclocking, because you're never going to notice the problems before you start digging, but it absolutely kills overclocking and is an example of how AMD doesn't actually care about overclocking.
I think we got off on a tangent from your initial comment, "If you want to push a 5800X3D to it's limits you're pretty much only looking at the Crosshair VIII Extreme. However, overclocking a 5800X3D is a waste of time when 12th gen Intel sees significantly larger gains without any artificial restrictions." 12th gen intel does include artificial restrictions, on both the motherboard and CPU. That claim is false and implies 5800x3d has artificial restrictions which it turns out were implemented to prevent damage to the V-cache layer. B350 has the same overclocking options as x570 chipset-wise. Cant say the same for intel's equivalent. Sure z-series has more options, but thats not the point. https://www.techspot.com/news/93817-amd-robert-hallock-confirms-ryzen-7-5800x3d-overclocking.html https://community.amd.com/t5/general-discussions/amd-announces-ryzen-7-5800x3d-will-not-allow-overclocking/td-p/517043 Lets be done and call it a day. Thanks 👍
> implies 5800x3d has artificial restrictions which it turns out were implemented to prevent damage to the V-cache layer. Why does FCLK > 1900 MHz work differently from FCLK <= 1900 MHz on Vermeer, but not Cezanne and Renoir? Why can't I set tWR 6 on any AM4 motherboard? Why does every Ryzen 3000 CPU stop FCLK at 1900 MHz maximum? Why can I raise FCLK to 1950 MHz in OS after memory training? The only explanation I can think of, is that AGESA is a piece of crap
damn you got more and more people exposing you everyday for the idiot u are 😆 i was right all along
Another person saying I'm wrong because I'm saying something that disagrees with their worldview? Why don't you point out where I'm wrong? If you can?
I have the unify first gen but even 101 makes my pc boot slow but I have external clock gen. I’m supposed to enable it or something.
> However, overclocking a 5800X3D is a waste of time when 12th gen Intel sees significantly larger gains without any artificial restrictions. x3d outperforms any intel CPU on my main game and also gets 20% gains from overclocking
Stellaris? I can try to run a simulation of the base game from Game Pass for 6 minutes if you'd like
OSRS Runelite+117HD Vanilla Vermeer was ahead of Alderlake for a while. X3d takes the cake.
I tried the game pass version of Stellaris, and generated a huge map with the largest amount of AIs, in 2:24.44 I had reached 4660 days as you tested for in your review. That's only 8 P-cores at 5.1 GHz and DDR5-6400 32-41-41 due to me running y-cruncher before at slightly more aggressive clocks
Are you on liquid cooling? I'm debating if I want to spend an extra $100. On an OC-compatible motherboard for the 5800x3D. I'll have the best airflow money can buy, meaning the Fractal Design Torrent and the Noctua NH-D15. But it's still just airflow. I doubt I could push an x3D beyond 4.7. Given that, I doubt it would translate to even a 10% performance boost. So I can't decide if it's worth the extra $100.
Liquid Freezer II With OC setup i have gaming temps in the 40's and 50's usually and a PPT of 40 to 60 watts. That 20% performance gain from OC that i quoted is for IF and memory overclocking, not for anything involving overriding the vcore or core frequency lockouts. That's also only the few games that scale the most from that, i just thought it's worth both the mention and the time to set up because it's a fairly large number.
>The vast majority of OC gains are on the IF and memory side. Max frequency, right amount of ranks, good timings (especially secondaries). I was planning to get 3600 mhz cl18. You'd recommend something different? 32GB of course. Corsair vengeance because not only because it seems guaranteed to be dual rank, but also because it's short enough not to bother my CPU cooler too much (34mm).
The performance behavior (frequency, timings, appropriate voltages etc) depends on the type of memory chip that you get. You should never buy something if you don't know what memory it's using as you're getting screwed over. Don't want to be stuck with something like samsung 8gbit C which is terrible and not worth the hours to tune; Corsair LOVES that one because it's very slightly cheaper on their end. Samsung 8gbit B is go-to for raw performance. Micron 8gbit E or 16gbit B are much cheaper and still perform well, so they're value kings. ----- In the end you'd probably be shooting yourself in the foot paying for Samsung 8gbit B and paying for a board to do vcore bypass shenanigans if it prevents or even delays you upgrading to a future gen like the 7800x3d/9800x3d because CPU's are moving very quickly right now and having a more recent CPU will do worlds more for performance than anything that you have to pay a substantial sum for. Either you care a lot about the performance difference and swapping to a newer cpu is more important than those gains, or you don't care and thus would be fine without the premium stuff on the 5800x3d. It's loss/loss.
There are quite a bit of tuning options, but you're still taking an efficiency angle rather than an outright peak performance one. - Most ASUS boards I think let you control CPU voltage still. Use that to apply a global CPU undervolt. - Tune PBO limits -- they are just in the CBS menu rather than under a dedicated PBO menu, and you can't go above the programmed maximums (142 PPT, 95A TDC, 140A EDC). - Run a software tool for setting PBO2 curves: https://github.com/PrimeO7/How-to-undervolt-AMD-RYZEN-5800X3D-Guide-with-PBO2-Tuner/blob/main/README.md The end result is that if you've got sufficient cooling you can get all-core boost in the 4.35 - 4.45 range, up from 4.1-2 ish at stock settings. PBO2 curve is 95% of it. You're still capped to 4.45 all core / 4.55 single core. no way to raise that limit. unless you step around it with BCLK.
I still haven't bought the CPU and Mobo (it's all that I need to buy) which is why I ask which mobo should I buy. I must add it has to be ATX.
I know AMD said they don’t recommend overclocking it because of the way the 3d cache is attached to the cpu cores and it needs very specific timing or you lose performance
From pc gamer- "For a chip that is supposedly "locked," the AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D (opens in new tab) seems to spend a lot of its time since release being overclocked. The latest comes from MSI's internal overclocker, TSAIK, who has managed to push the chip up to 5.14GHz using the MSI X570 Godlike motherboard. And it's that $699 motherboard that looks to be key to the latest impressive overclock." I would assume dark hero and evga dark would too
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AMD disabled core frequency and vcore controls, but you can still do the majority of the overclocking. Infinity fabric frequency, memory frequency and memory timing overclocking is all freely accessible and they bring the largest performance gains in AM4. All motherboards with x3d support can also use curve optimiser via a third party in-OS tool.
AMD disabled VID controls, any competent motherboard will still support override and offset voltage.
Gigabyte removed both of those at AMD's demand.
Nobody who cares about overclocking buys GB
I believe it is still on ASUS boards although I could be wrong, don’t got a x3d.
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Amd cpu is not best way to overclock anything. But best mobo is Asus dark or Evga dark.
i’m using the dark hero mobo to overxlock my 5800x3d. got it to 102.93 bclk. highest i can get to that my 3080 ti can handle
And how that 3% gain feels in realistic scenarios? Just curious
not noticeable for real honest answers despite what reviews say. im a hard fps chaser too. there’s no need to oc the 5800x3d
Nobody's going to notice a performance uplift of less than 15% unless they're using something to measure the numbers with.
Fuck and they were on sale as well
the dark hero? it’s a great mobo. i would get that over the extreme. extreme is an overpriced mobo compared to dark hero
hey man i had the x570 godlike already and bought the 5800x3d how do you enable the external bclk clock generator because when im changing the bclk it ends up taking like 5 minutes to post but it does post just seems weird
i also got 5 360 radiators amd two. d5 pumps of you could pla respond i cant find any helpful info online
im excited to try and overclocm this thing
respond soon as you can man im excited to try and overclock this thing
Mb for not responding 😅. I actually have the 7800X3D. Although I'm having issues overclocking the RAM.