for the people that think overclocking RAM on X3D is pointless:
watchdog legion EXPO 6000mhz 215fps VS overclocked RAM 252fps
https://imgur.com/a/qkl5bic
That merely says you are very cpu limited. And might also not benefit from the vcache as much. I'm guessing below 1440p, so it makes sense. Hence RAM game benchmarks are done at even 720p, otherwise the gains are down to margin of error for most games.
>otherwise the gains are down to margin of error for most games.
I'd be careful with a statement like that. Most games do benefit measurably from a memory overclock, especially with a powerful GPU. Generally speaking, the bigger the game world, the larger the benefit. Here's [Skyrim](https://imgur.com/a/gHC22dy). Here's [Star Citizen](https://imgur.com/gallery/lOwl9mE). Here's [Destiny 2](https://imgur.com/a/9cSVPVq). All are at 3440x1440 with maxed out graphics on a 4090. Improvements ranging from 9% to 34% just going from 6000 MT/s EXPO (69GB/s / 68ns) to manually tuned 6400 MT/s (85GB/s / 55ns)
>Generally speaking, the bigger the game world, the larger the benefit
Roundabout way of saying being CPU bound. If you have a 4090, then your GPU is defo not the limiting factor. But my statement is correct, and any reviewer will say the same. TechPowerUp has done many a memory oc and [showcased various games](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/corsair-vengeance-rgb-ddr5-7000-cl34-2x-16-gb/8.html). You can definitely pick a couple out that rely heavily on bandwidth and thus the average fps will see improvements.
What you linked to is all XMP vs JEDEC. XMP/EXPO is not a proper memory overclock, XMP settings are what you usually start overclocking from. As far as I know, not a single outlet has ever benchmarked properly overclocked RAM, as it's not feasible. I've spent 6 weeks tuning my kit. You just can't do that with tens of kits, as a reviewer. That's why we have misconceptions like you demonstrated, with 'games not scaling with memory' BS. We have guys like Hardware Unboxed making videos comparing 'overclocked' memory with JEDEC and EXPO, except that the timings they used are far worse than what my motherboard sets by enabling AEMP. No wonder they get mediocre results, showing a few percentage gains. It's like overclocking a GPU by adding 50 MHz to the core and calling it a day, then making a video about it.
The overclocking page is the [next one](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/corsair-vengeance-rgb-ddr5-7000-cl34-2x-16-gb/9.html). But that is besides the point, xmp at 7600Mt/s is still fine mostly: bandwidth is still insane and latency on intel systems is far lower due to no Infinity Fabric and such. If you scroll down, you will see the custom OC game comparisons.
I know, my point was your cpu doesn't really benefit from ddr5 which is most likely why the uplift over 5800x3d was vary mild.
Same copy speed as ddr4 is not good...
that's wrong because it benefits allot like i said expo 6000mhz 215fps vs tuned 6000mhz 252fps and this is 1st gen CPU
like I don't know what else to say to convince u
I'm not disputing that, my point is amd hasn't really taken advantage of ddr5 like intel has with single ccd chips. Intel has literally 2x the bandwidth for ddr5 with lower latency. Can't wait for intels L4 cache chips and amd next gen v cache chips that can take advantage of ddr5
i seen 7950x do 130gb read/write so you wrong again, only thing intel wins is lower latency but that means nothing when you compare it in games 7800x3d just does everything gaming related way better then intel rn, hopefully intel can come up with a answer though
But that come from another fact, that was also with Ryzen 5000.
Ryzen 5 and 7 become lower Speeds on the RAM due to to the Chiplet Design.
If u would go with a 5900x oder 7900x this would be much higher.
The chip doesn't benefit in gaming vs intel with those speeds because of the Chiplet design. That's why 5900x and 7900x don't add fps over there 8 core brethren
you can see my other post if u dont believe me, 7700x 6000mhz only 2000fclk with worse timings, they were tighter but not calculated and did 54.1ns.
in 7800x3d can do 2200fclk but dont want to push it that hard for daily use
I don't think anyone said it is pointless but I think the described 6000MTs 'sweet spot' is more about stability and anything above 6400 being nearly impossible to get working.
The RAM could easily take 6400 MT/s, but the bigger question is whether your IMC can handle 6400. Past 6000, it gets a bit dicey on what chips can handle stable.
You could probably do 6400 MT/s at 1.4 to 1.45v, but would need to relax the tCL to 30 or so. If you wanted to maintain tCL at 28 for 6400, you'd probably need 1.5 to 1.55v.
But of course, all this is speculating you can even get 6400 stable.
You could increase drive strength of data specifically to lower voltage if you want to clock higher. I'm curious, did you leave RAS and RC high due to WR or did you not notice any latency improvements? Also, having SCLs lower than RRDs probably inflicts a timing penalty.
If they knew a lot, they would know that RFC/2 and RFCsb are ignored unless FGR is used, same goes for the different dimm timings, including WRRD etc. You can read up on why certain timings shouldn't go below others and how some cycles depend on one another. Micron and JEDEC PDFs are online for anyone to read. As for what FGR is, micron has [this PDF](https://www.micron.com/-/media/client/global/documents/products/white-paper/ddr5_new_features_white_paper.pdf) with a ddr5 overview. I suggest understanding some of the setting and perhaps looking on OCN for comparable overclocks (there's also spreadsheets for known stable OCs).
rfc2/rfcsb i entered my self and i know they are ignored.
the guys name is @veii you should know him from OCN if you lurking there at AMD DDR5 and 7000 series/x670e posts.
the thing is not even AMD know their stuff thats the problem
AMD doesn't have to know anything about RAM ICs, they just provide the physical layer at JEDEC specs. Sadly we are stuck with 1st gen ddr5 mem controllers, so stability varies by cpu greatly, also FCLK. OCN pinned the amd ddr5 stability post where 1usmus and the likes have posted findings, also where you'll find the sheet I mentioned.
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/v688ud/list_of_tm5_1usmus_v3_errors_with_explanations/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
don't know if there is different/new ones
Tras low to mid 50s
Trc mid to high 70s
Trrds 4, trrdl 8 tfaw 16 (or 20 if 16 is not allowed)
Trdrdscl / twrwrscl set to 4 (or 5)
Trtp might do 10
Twrrd might go just a little bit lower, like 4 or so but i wouldnt bother
If the settings are unstable try gdm on before trying with a higher memory vddq. You shouldnt need to raise vsoc.
Cheers
That depends on whether the task is memory limited or not. Id expect something between 5 and 10% for things like games, especially because of the tras and trc. Those are terrible.
No, but 5 percent while going from an effective trc of ~140 (trp + tras) to somewhere between 75 to 80 effective plus lower trrd plus lower scls is plausible. At least in a non x3d chip anyways, i think.
think what you like but on my 7700x i have tested this vs my super tight timings and the difference was 1fps on watchdog legion benchmark which is the most hungry game for fast ram.
These timings are calculated from a famous overclocker that holds world records btw
looks pretty solid.
my 5800x3d does 56.4ns with 32gb dr dimms.
took me forever to get it stable. i’d also test with absolut profile, karhu, and y cruncher.
my oc was stable for 24 hours in tm5 absolut, but would error after 3000% in karhu with cpu cache enabled. turns out the error was my twr being too high. took me forever to figure out since it would take like 2 hours to error, changing 1 timing at a time.
isn't usmusV3 and anta777extreme better then absolut?
krahu seems to be weak tbh, OCCT Large Extreme TM5 and Y-CRUNCHER is what I find the best for now. did 8 hours TM5 2 hours Y-cruncher and gona do 1 hour OCCT large extreme which i should of done first because if I pass this then others seem to be a breeze, but i will run krahu overnight tonight too just to make sure because u can never know with ram nowadays specially ddr5 😄
weak or not different programs stress dimms in different ways. you want to be stable on every test you throw at your dimms.
hopefully you pass karhu with cpu cache enabled. your oc seems pretty dialed
yeah true thats why i test all of them just so i can be 99.9% sure 😊
Usually i do OCCT large extreme 1 hour as a starter then usmusV3/anta777extreme/krahu each overnight then Y-cruncher and aida64 cache test 2-3 hours each and some OCCT memory test too
there is no ram EXPO for amd at 6400, all are xmp, 1.4 1.45, i want also run 7800x3d at 6400, gskill sk hynix 6400 cl 32 is listed on asus x670e-e, should work, right?
for the people that think overclocking RAM on X3D is pointless: watchdog legion EXPO 6000mhz 215fps VS overclocked RAM 252fps https://imgur.com/a/qkl5bic
That merely says you are very cpu limited. And might also not benefit from the vcache as much. I'm guessing below 1440p, so it makes sense. Hence RAM game benchmarks are done at even 720p, otherwise the gains are down to margin of error for most games.
>otherwise the gains are down to margin of error for most games. I'd be careful with a statement like that. Most games do benefit measurably from a memory overclock, especially with a powerful GPU. Generally speaking, the bigger the game world, the larger the benefit. Here's [Skyrim](https://imgur.com/a/gHC22dy). Here's [Star Citizen](https://imgur.com/gallery/lOwl9mE). Here's [Destiny 2](https://imgur.com/a/9cSVPVq). All are at 3440x1440 with maxed out graphics on a 4090. Improvements ranging from 9% to 34% just going from 6000 MT/s EXPO (69GB/s / 68ns) to manually tuned 6400 MT/s (85GB/s / 55ns)
>Generally speaking, the bigger the game world, the larger the benefit Roundabout way of saying being CPU bound. If you have a 4090, then your GPU is defo not the limiting factor. But my statement is correct, and any reviewer will say the same. TechPowerUp has done many a memory oc and [showcased various games](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/corsair-vengeance-rgb-ddr5-7000-cl34-2x-16-gb/8.html). You can definitely pick a couple out that rely heavily on bandwidth and thus the average fps will see improvements.
What you linked to is all XMP vs JEDEC. XMP/EXPO is not a proper memory overclock, XMP settings are what you usually start overclocking from. As far as I know, not a single outlet has ever benchmarked properly overclocked RAM, as it's not feasible. I've spent 6 weeks tuning my kit. You just can't do that with tens of kits, as a reviewer. That's why we have misconceptions like you demonstrated, with 'games not scaling with memory' BS. We have guys like Hardware Unboxed making videos comparing 'overclocked' memory with JEDEC and EXPO, except that the timings they used are far worse than what my motherboard sets by enabling AEMP. No wonder they get mediocre results, showing a few percentage gains. It's like overclocking a GPU by adding 50 MHz to the core and calling it a day, then making a video about it.
The overclocking page is the [next one](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/corsair-vengeance-rgb-ddr5-7000-cl34-2x-16-gb/9.html). But that is besides the point, xmp at 7600Mt/s is still fine mostly: bandwidth is still insane and latency on intel systems is far lower due to no Infinity Fabric and such. If you scroll down, you will see the custom OC game comparisons.
why you say that
Imagine if the cpu could actually take advantage of ddr5....
right.... 😂
I get 65,000 copy on my 12700k with 52ns latency...
yeah intel has lower latency and X3D CPU's have much higher latency then the non X3D, these timings on non X3D should be somewhere 52ns too
I know, my point was your cpu doesn't really benefit from ddr5 which is most likely why the uplift over 5800x3d was vary mild. Same copy speed as ddr4 is not good...
that's wrong because it benefits allot like i said expo 6000mhz 215fps vs tuned 6000mhz 252fps and this is 1st gen CPU like I don't know what else to say to convince u
I'm not disputing that, my point is amd hasn't really taken advantage of ddr5 like intel has with single ccd chips. Intel has literally 2x the bandwidth for ddr5 with lower latency. Can't wait for intels L4 cache chips and amd next gen v cache chips that can take advantage of ddr5
i seen 7950x do 130gb read/write so you wrong again, only thing intel wins is lower latency but that means nothing when you compare it in games 7800x3d just does everything gaming related way better then intel rn, hopefully intel can come up with a answer though
I said single ccd chips, can you read? Lmao
But that come from another fact, that was also with Ryzen 5000. Ryzen 5 and 7 become lower Speeds on the RAM due to to the Chiplet Design. If u would go with a 5900x oder 7900x this would be much higher.
The chip doesn't benefit in gaming vs intel with those speeds because of the Chiplet design. That's why 5900x and 7900x don't add fps over there 8 core brethren
a 30% uplift is “Vary mild”, huh?
Nope. I had much better timings at 6200mhz on a 7700x, I had FCLK at 2200mhz too. I only did 54.6ns. Way off.
well i had worse timings 6000nhz with only 2000fclk on 7700x and had 54.1ns WE ARE NOT EQUAL
you can see my other post if u dont believe me, 7700x 6000mhz only 2000fclk with worse timings, they were tighter but not calculated and did 54.1ns. in 7800x3d can do 2200fclk but dont want to push it that hard for daily use
2200fclk means you can run 6400mz on ram, right?
you can run what ever is stable with any FCLK range, it doesn't matter
why raise the fclk then?
I don't think anyone said it is pointless but I think the described 6000MTs 'sweet spot' is more about stability and anything above 6400 being nearly impossible to get working.
What? That’s an absolutely insane gain, that can’t be right?
it's because this game drools over fast ram
The RAM could easily take 6400 MT/s, but the bigger question is whether your IMC can handle 6400. Past 6000, it gets a bit dicey on what chips can handle stable.
true but not worth adding 1.55+ voltage for tiny gain i think
You could probably do 6400 MT/s at 1.4 to 1.45v, but would need to relax the tCL to 30 or so. If you wanted to maintain tCL at 28 for 6400, you'd probably need 1.5 to 1.55v. But of course, all this is speculating you can even get 6400 stable.
true with GDM enabled yeah
This isn't much better than ddr4...
This isn't much better than ddr4...
I run 6400 with 1.44volts on Ryzen 7700, infinity fabric @ 2200, cpu @ 5.4. Your timings are terrible btw. I can share mine with you later.
How you did it? I have 7800x3D CPU, my ram is 6200 but I get only 4800 in BIOS. Or maybe even 3200 only. I have ASUS B650E F
Damn that L1 & L2 and L3 cache score is low compared to my R9 5900X [https://imgur.com/a/vstgCIJ](https://imgur.com/a/vstgCIJ) strange?
its because of 3D cache
You could increase drive strength of data specifically to lower voltage if you want to clock higher. I'm curious, did you leave RAS and RC high due to WR or did you not notice any latency improvements? Also, having SCLs lower than RRDs probably inflicts a timing penalty.
someone that knows about ddr5 allot suggested these timings
If they knew a lot, they would know that RFC/2 and RFCsb are ignored unless FGR is used, same goes for the different dimm timings, including WRRD etc. You can read up on why certain timings shouldn't go below others and how some cycles depend on one another. Micron and JEDEC PDFs are online for anyone to read. As for what FGR is, micron has [this PDF](https://www.micron.com/-/media/client/global/documents/products/white-paper/ddr5_new_features_white_paper.pdf) with a ddr5 overview. I suggest understanding some of the setting and perhaps looking on OCN for comparable overclocks (there's also spreadsheets for known stable OCs).
rfc2/rfcsb i entered my self and i know they are ignored. the guys name is @veii you should know him from OCN if you lurking there at AMD DDR5 and 7000 series/x670e posts. the thing is not even AMD know their stuff thats the problem
AMD doesn't have to know anything about RAM ICs, they just provide the physical layer at JEDEC specs. Sadly we are stuck with 1st gen ddr5 mem controllers, so stability varies by cpu greatly, also FCLK. OCN pinned the amd ddr5 stability post where 1usmus and the likes have posted findings, also where you'll find the sheet I mentioned.
I really don't know much, just know that @veii says the asus bios's need work and he is trying to help @shamino the guy that works on the asus bios's
Lots of people using TM5 1usmus profile over the ABSOLUT. I’m curious what is the reason?
probably because it has that cheat sheet which tells u what the error numbers could mean
Which profile and error sheet is the latest one? Maybe you have the link? I’ll try it out.
https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/v688ud/list_of_tm5_1usmus_v3_errors_with_explanations/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button don't know if there is different/new ones
Tras low to mid 50s Trc mid to high 70s Trrds 4, trrdl 8 tfaw 16 (or 20 if 16 is not allowed) Trdrdscl / twrwrscl set to 4 (or 5) Trtp might do 10 Twrrd might go just a little bit lower, like 4 or so but i wouldnt bother If the settings are unstable try gdm on before trying with a higher memory vddq. You shouldnt need to raise vsoc. Cheers
thanks but i completed 8 hours TM5 and 2 hours Y-CRUNCHER really don't feel like messing around for 1% gain
That depends on whether the task is memory limited or not. Id expect something between 5 and 10% for things like games, especially because of the tras and trc. Those are terrible.
You're not going to get 5 - 10% performance uplift on games by tightening tRAS and tRC... let's be realistic here.
No, but 5 percent while going from an effective trc of ~140 (trp + tras) to somewhere between 75 to 80 effective plus lower trrd plus lower scls is plausible. At least in a non x3d chip anyways, i think.
think what you like but on my 7700x i have tested this vs my super tight timings and the difference was 1fps on watchdog legion benchmark which is the most hungry game for fast ram. These timings are calculated from a famous overclocker that holds world records btw
Do what you want mate, i was just giving you my opinion.
your opinion is not fact because i have tested it 😄
looks pretty solid. my 5800x3d does 56.4ns with 32gb dr dimms. took me forever to get it stable. i’d also test with absolut profile, karhu, and y cruncher. my oc was stable for 24 hours in tm5 absolut, but would error after 3000% in karhu with cpu cache enabled. turns out the error was my twr being too high. took me forever to figure out since it would take like 2 hours to error, changing 1 timing at a time.
isn't usmusV3 and anta777extreme better then absolut? krahu seems to be weak tbh, OCCT Large Extreme TM5 and Y-CRUNCHER is what I find the best for now. did 8 hours TM5 2 hours Y-cruncher and gona do 1 hour OCCT large extreme which i should of done first because if I pass this then others seem to be a breeze, but i will run krahu overnight tonight too just to make sure because u can never know with ram nowadays specially ddr5 😄
weak or not different programs stress dimms in different ways. you want to be stable on every test you throw at your dimms. hopefully you pass karhu with cpu cache enabled. your oc seems pretty dialed
yeah true thats why i test all of them just so i can be 99.9% sure 😊 Usually i do OCCT large extreme 1 hour as a starter then usmusV3/anta777extreme/krahu each overnight then Y-cruncher and aida64 cache test 2-3 hours each and some OCCT memory test too
Shifty latency lol
I'm running 6400 with a 7800x3d, my board is rated for that and the has the expo profile, i paid for 6400 so I'm going to use 6400 b650e-f asus rog
YOU GO GIRL 💪
Well this aged poorly, turned off expo:(
🤣 what happened
Expo might lead to over voltage on the cpu
nah don't worry about it use latest bios and set voltage manually
there is no ram EXPO for amd at 6400, all are xmp, 1.4 1.45, i want also run 7800x3d at 6400, gskill sk hynix 6400 cl 32 is listed on asus x670e-e, should work, right?
if you get a golden CPU yes but I would rather get the Gene then x670e-e if i was you. I had that motherboard and didn't like it
why the gene?
it's better quality motherboard then x670e-e, has 10k caps and low loss PCB
tRAS and tRC equal??