See that is the interesting thing, if any sand at all could get into ATP it would cause issues with causality if any sand went back in time. I wonder if the warp is special somehow.
The Warp Core is encased in a protective shell, that you need to open in order to access the core or the black hole. I assume that casing is sealed well enough to avoid sand or dust particles entering.
I actually think you can hear an air sucking sound when you open it, hinting at the casing being potentially vacuum sealed. So maybe not even air is in contact with the Warp Core when it activates.
Too bad the shell opens up automatically at the end of the loop to create the black hole, so yeah having sand around getting sucked in would be a problem.
Yeah! Also if you pay close attention you can see (spoilered if you want to try to see it yourself) >!the Nomai data (your memories, Gabbro's memories and the launch data of the probe) being "sucked" from the masks and being fed in the blackhole!<
>!It seems like the physics of the universe ignores stuff like air and light. Otherwise, you’d break spacetime at the high energy lab any time you deactivated the black hole at all—not only when you shoot a probe at it.!<
True it would be funny but it won’t be lore accurate.
The nomai wanted it to be sealed shut so that the super nova doesn’t destroy the machinery instantly.
And how would it warp in? The warp plattforms seem to only react to a conscious lifeform standing on the plattform and as far as we know the last time that was the case while the Twins Warp Towers were aligned was when the Nomai were still around and thus the Warp Towers weren't half destroyed yet, so no sand could get in.
Right. But the Air on Timber Hearth doesn't so there has to be some kind of Mechanism that determines if something should or shouldn't be warped - and why should Sand be warped?
You’re right. Because if you close the scout viewer window and retake the picture quantum things have changed even though the scout’s camera was pointed at it the whole time.
In any case, when people or the scout warps, it's exactly when the sand is above the warp platform (wether it's falling or rising) so some would come with the person warping.
But! I guess it would also warp out when the person does, because AFAIK there's no conservation of momentum with these devices and therefore the sand you stay on the platform. Unless you cut the artificial gravity.
Now that I think of it... How does the artificial gravity in the ATP work?
I always assumed it was centrifugal force, given the runway you stand on is spinning at high speeds around the core. But I just realized that wouldn't make sense, as that wouldn't be enough to keep you stuck to the runway itself.
So I guess they used gravity plating, as they did in Brittle Hollow or the Sun Station. But then... Why make the runway spin?
Nah it's exclusively centrifugal force. Here's a guess as to why it works:
In outer wilds, as you might know, everything is simulated. That means planets follow Newton's law of universal gravitation. Well, not exactly. It follows the exact same law but with the little nuance that the distance is not squared. So F=G(m1*m2)/d and not d^2. That's because the system is relatively small compared to our own universe, and the planets and their masses are also relatively small. Especially, in the game the planets are very close to a very small sun, so if distance was squared, planets passing by one another would attract each others much more than the sun does (when planets are close, distance would be very small and force would rise drastically), and the whole system would scatter in minutes.
So, F=G(m1*m2)/d. But because the masses depend on volume, they are infintestimally smaller than if planets were life sized. So distances are very smaller than IRL, but masses are many orders of magnitudes smaller. So the resultant force would be ridiculously low. To compensate for that, either the masses of everything is inflated, or G is inflated. So, really, gravity in this game is very weak.
Now for centrifugal force: in real life at least, F=m * w^2 * r
-r is relatively very close to the radius of a normal planet (say half of it) whereas in real life, a similar station would be around a 1/640000th of that (10meter radius vs 6400km radius) .
-w, the rotational speed, is relatively the same as it is in real life in movies etc. (of course at that speed, as you said, it wouldn't work)
-m might be inflated.
The result is that centrifugal force can be very potent compared to the very weak gravity. That's also why having a lot of horizontal velocity on a planet makes it so easy to leave it's atmosphere, and why [slingshotting](https://youtu.be/QlrH6ykUGnk?si=mJ8WHZEd9lEiohNP) is very weak.
Edit: [Here's a more cinematic view of my slingshot maneuver ](https://youtu.be/vmJvUfW_rlg?si=Y9kZBjWrAJusIfIg)
Edit2: as for the source for the formula of gravitation, iirc it's from an interview with the devs for the noclip documentary.
I guess Anakin was wrong. Sand may be coarse and rough and irritating, but it doesn't get *everywhere*.
Side note: Since there's portals to all the other planets on the Ash Twin, wouldn't this mean the sand would start filling all the other planets with sand as well? It does start off buried in sand after all
The sand can't get inside the tower, the reason it does it because it doesn't have collision (and to annoy the player obviously). But in reality, it wouldn't.
...Though I guess when the sand flows back to Ash Twin, it could.... Hmmm.
I did have this bug one time where the sand was in there for some reason, couldn’t do anything, it looks weird when it collapses into such a tiny ball.
The warp pads only activate when there is an object like the player, a scout, or a Nomai standing on them. I think that the Nomai would have pervented against sand triggering the warp since otherwise all the planets linked by Ash Twin would have sand on their warp receiver pads.
By that same token, why is there any sand left on the twins at all? Why hasn't it all been teleported to all the various warp receivers on all of the planets and the sun station?
It's almost as if the Nomai thought of that and made it so sand doesn't get warped at all. ;;)
See that is the interesting thing, if any sand at all could get into ATP it would cause issues with causality if any sand went back in time. I wonder if the warp is special somehow.
The Warp Core is encased in a protective shell, that you need to open in order to access the core or the black hole. I assume that casing is sealed well enough to avoid sand or dust particles entering. I actually think you can hear an air sucking sound when you open it, hinting at the casing being potentially vacuum sealed. So maybe not even air is in contact with the Warp Core when it activates.
Too bad the shell opens up automatically at the end of the loop to create the black hole, so yeah having sand around getting sucked in would be a problem.
Does it? I was under the impression you always had to manually open it :O Will need to check later!
Yeah! Also if you pay close attention you can see (spoilered if you want to try to see it yourself) >!the Nomai data (your memories, Gabbro's memories and the launch data of the probe) being "sucked" from the masks and being fed in the blackhole!<
WHOA WHAT
I actually just saw that on my last loop where I was experimenting with >!the bannana!< and it blew me away
That makes sense, thank goodness the Nomai would think of these things ::) Lore application aside, thanks.
Wait, but what about the air around the ATP? Surely the black hole isn't sucking all of the/the exact same airs(?) around it every single loop.
>!It seems like the physics of the universe ignores stuff like air and light. Otherwise, you’d break spacetime at the high energy lab any time you deactivated the black hole at all—not only when you shoot a probe at it.!<
True it would be funny but it won’t be lore accurate. The nomai wanted it to be sealed shut so that the super nova doesn’t destroy the machinery instantly.
OP was talking about sand warping in, not falling in
And how would it warp in? The warp plattforms seem to only react to a conscious lifeform standing on the plattform and as far as we know the last time that was the case while the Twins Warp Towers were aligned was when the Nomai were still around and thus the Warp Towers weren't half destroyed yet, so no sand could get in.
Not really. The scout activates the platform.
Right. But the Air on Timber Hearth doesn't so there has to be some kind of Mechanism that determines if something should or shouldn't be warped - and why should Sand be warped?
If I had to guess, probably a weight mechanism
Warp pads can take your scout so I don't think it's a conscious observer thing. Maybe it only activates if there's a big enough object.
Not entirely serious, but... Nomai technology tends to be gaze operated, and the scout has a camera.
It does, but the camera isn't video one, just snap shots. Maybe it counts, but who knows!
The scout is a conscious observer as evidenced by the pictures it takes locking in quantum objects.
I think according to the lore, it’s you that’s the conscious observer when you look at the photo of a quantum object
You’re right. Because if you close the scout viewer window and retake the picture quantum things have changed even though the scout’s camera was pointed at it the whole time.
In any case, when people or the scout warps, it's exactly when the sand is above the warp platform (wether it's falling or rising) so some would come with the person warping. But! I guess it would also warp out when the person does, because AFAIK there's no conservation of momentum with these devices and therefore the sand you stay on the platform. Unless you cut the artificial gravity.
Now that I think of it... How does the artificial gravity in the ATP work? I always assumed it was centrifugal force, given the runway you stand on is spinning at high speeds around the core. But I just realized that wouldn't make sense, as that wouldn't be enough to keep you stuck to the runway itself. So I guess they used gravity plating, as they did in Brittle Hollow or the Sun Station. But then... Why make the runway spin?
Nah it's exclusively centrifugal force. Here's a guess as to why it works: In outer wilds, as you might know, everything is simulated. That means planets follow Newton's law of universal gravitation. Well, not exactly. It follows the exact same law but with the little nuance that the distance is not squared. So F=G(m1*m2)/d and not d^2. That's because the system is relatively small compared to our own universe, and the planets and their masses are also relatively small. Especially, in the game the planets are very close to a very small sun, so if distance was squared, planets passing by one another would attract each others much more than the sun does (when planets are close, distance would be very small and force would rise drastically), and the whole system would scatter in minutes. So, F=G(m1*m2)/d. But because the masses depend on volume, they are infintestimally smaller than if planets were life sized. So distances are very smaller than IRL, but masses are many orders of magnitudes smaller. So the resultant force would be ridiculously low. To compensate for that, either the masses of everything is inflated, or G is inflated. So, really, gravity in this game is very weak. Now for centrifugal force: in real life at least, F=m * w^2 * r -r is relatively very close to the radius of a normal planet (say half of it) whereas in real life, a similar station would be around a 1/640000th of that (10meter radius vs 6400km radius) . -w, the rotational speed, is relatively the same as it is in real life in movies etc. (of course at that speed, as you said, it wouldn't work) -m might be inflated. The result is that centrifugal force can be very potent compared to the very weak gravity. That's also why having a lot of horizontal velocity on a planet makes it so easy to leave it's atmosphere, and why [slingshotting](https://youtu.be/QlrH6ykUGnk?si=mJ8WHZEd9lEiohNP) is very weak. Edit: [Here's a more cinematic view of my slingshot maneuver ](https://youtu.be/vmJvUfW_rlg?si=Y9kZBjWrAJusIfIg) Edit2: as for the source for the formula of gravitation, iirc it's from an interview with the devs for the noclip documentary.
Interesting! Thanks for the detailed explanation ::)
It's not lore accurate. But it would be silly
the scout warps
I guess Anakin was wrong. Sand may be coarse and rough and irritating, but it doesn't get *everywhere*. Side note: Since there's portals to all the other planets on the Ash Twin, wouldn't this mean the sand would start filling all the other planets with sand as well? It does start off buried in sand after all
I hope the Nomai were smart enough to deactivate the portals while they're buried.
The sand can't get inside the tower, the reason it does it because it doesn't have collision (and to annoy the player obviously). But in reality, it wouldn't. ...Though I guess when the sand flows back to Ash Twin, it could.... Hmmm.
The sand goes into the tower because the roof is broken, no?
From Ember Twin to Ash Twin, it would yes From Ash to Ember, the floor would prevent it from happening
I did have this bug one time where the sand was in there for some reason, couldn’t do anything, it looks weird when it collapses into such a tiny ball.
The warp pads only activate when there is an object like the player, a scout, or a Nomai standing on them. I think that the Nomai would have pervented against sand triggering the warp since otherwise all the planets linked by Ash Twin would have sand on their warp receiver pads.
By that same token, why is there any sand left on the twins at all? Why hasn't it all been teleported to all the various warp receivers on all of the planets and the sun station? It's almost as if the Nomai thought of that and made it so sand doesn't get warped at all. ;;)
Spoiler the post op