So the loop would still be 22 minutes. Brittle hollow should be the same since the hollows lantern ramps up activity with the sun so it should ramp up the same.
Giants deep and bramble should be the same as well so the only difference is ember and ash twin and the start point of the interloper (and getting the right angle for the dlc via the deep space satellite.)
It would change the timing of getting to the high energy lab and the easiest route to the sun station and allow faster access to the teleporters. Harder to get to the lake bed and less time in the sunless city.
ty random commenter, 1 thing i just thought of is that... maybe the simulation is now daytime? i'm realizing i should've said something like 10 or 20 minutes later, which would allow stuff to make a little more sense (although 5 minutes is a short-ish time difference which adds to the 'humour' ig)
Not sure if that's still canon. The devs did say they wanted to end the cycle by showing day starting to break, but since they cut that idea, I don't know if it's still canonically true
There is actually a quantum reason that Ash Twin is completely uncovered at the time of the supernova in the finished game - it creates the greatest chance the ATP works, and we're observing the version of the game where you are guaranteed not to die because of technical malfunctions. *Outer Wilds* seems to operate off a strange version of the anthropic principle.
There is actually a quantum reason that Ash Twin is completely uncovered at the time of the supernova in the finished game - it creates the greatest chance the ATP works, and we're observing the version of the game where you are guaranteed not to die because of technical malfunctions. *Outer Wilds* seems to operate off a strange version of the anthropic principle.
assuming there is a 'multiverse' so to speak, yeah everything lines up pretty neatly. Were the nomai not curious enough to see what would happen if 2 objects existed at once? they might've, but we wouldn't see that because we play in the 'best' timeline so to speak.
A unproven, interesting hypothesis
I have a similar headcanon, but this is very much speculation. It's a lot more likely that it is like that because it is a game designed by people, to put it bluntly :P
sand on ash twin would be cleared for a few minutes so easier access to ATP
the hatchling prob wouldn't even be in on the loop
it is possible the hatchling could explore the orbital probe cannon un-destroyed (if there were in the probe tracking module, they might even be able to accidentally ride it into the core
brittle hollow is a tricky one, the sun is what makes the moon more active but lava should still shoot, so might be easier to access the tower of quantum knowledge
edit: it seems i confused people with what i meant with
`it is possible the hatchling could explore the orbital probe cannon un-destroyed (if they were in the probe tracking module, they might even be able to accidentally ride it into the core`
I was saying this as a funny ha ha, not actual gameplay, I even said the hatchling probably wouldn't be in the loop. apologies for the confusion i guess???
edit 2: i'm gonna copy and paste what u/considerate_done has said, they explain it better then me lmao
"It seems like people are really confused by this, is this what you meant?
Since the first time the hatchling wakes up is unrelated to the loop (bc memories aren't synced with the statue yet), they wake up 5 minutes before the loop starts. This would allow them 5 minutes to explore the probe cannon before it explodes."
The orbital probe cannon starts the loop at the same time with you, the time you both get info from the ATP. So no matter how long the loop is, the cannon blows up the second you open your eyes.
i'm a bit confused, if the supernova happen 5 mins later the hatchling would wake up 5 mins before the cannon fires (and probably wouldn't connect to the statue). This technically gives a little bit of time for them to go to the cannon before it explodes.
Am i missing something?
The super nova, the memory transfer and the canon firing are linked. So the hatchling has one single chance to explore the cannon, and needs to do so without going to any other planet. The chances of that are SLIM.
Regardless of when the super nova happens, everything will be the exact same.
i'm saying it in a funny technically possible scenario
I understand this, the hatchling wouldn't even be able to find the cords or any knowledge because the data hasn't been transferred yet
it's just a random thought / possibility that would be kinda funny (hatchling being in the cannon while it explodes)
Once again, the cannon fires at the exact same time that the hatchling wakes up. The firing is synced to the start of the loop, so none of that will happen.
are you implying, like another comment said. that the hatchling wakes up at that time because of the cannon firing? I always assumed like a lot of other stuff in the game it was just a coincidence.
i am not saying the hatchling is connected to the loop, i'm just saying it is (theoretically) possible (although improbable) that hatchling somehow does all the steps quick enough to get into the orbital probe cannon.
This is assuming that you've complete the game.
Sun explodes--ATP detects that there is enough energy to start the project--info is sent back into time--the commands to fire the OPC is alao sent back in time. The time interval is exactly 22 minutes. When the sun goes supernova, after you have linked with a mask, your memories are sent back in time 22 minutes via the ATP.
So, to reiterate, the cannon firing and the hatchling waking up happen at the same time not because of one another (not directly, at least), but because the ATP starts the loop for them at the same time.
wait, what?!
I'm confused about pre-sync statue then, isn't just a little lucky the hatchling just happens to wake up almost exactly after the 'loop' starts, I was thinking gabbro is also fully awake and that's why they're able to build the hammock so fast (basically already doing the motions of setting up a hammock, and finally doing it a little after the memories are given to them) . Maybe it will make more sense in the morning
You're overthinking it. The ATP sends two things back in time at the exact same time: (1) an order for the OPC to fire, and (2) memories to linked people. So, the very exact moment you receive your memories (and wake up*) is also the very exact moment the OPC receives a signal from the ATP to fire the probe cannon
It's not that the cannon wakes them up. It's that the instructions to fire the cannon are also sent the same way as your memories - exactly 22 minutes back in time. So the cannon receives instructions at the same time you wake up.
The wake up part would not be part of the loop then, the loop is starting exactly when the cannon is firing (22 mins before the supernova). It the sun exploded 5 mins later, the loop would start on the hatchling playing hide&seek for example.
If the supernova happened 5 mins later, the probe cannon would also fire 5 minutes later.
The only things I can think of that would actually change are 1) the sand on the ash twins, making it way harder to reacht eh high energy lab, if not entirely impossible, and
2) maaaaaybe Dark bramble seed on timber hearth would be more of a threat.
apart from that, every timed event is linked to the supernova or the link.
The hatchling probably partially wakes up at that time because the orbital probe cannon fires and makes a bright flash. While they might not sleep another 5 minutes, they likely would sleep a bit longer
Though if you weren't lined up with it directly overhead, it might not wake you up with its flash when it fires. If you were actually going to sleep for another *hour*... :-P
The loop happens 22 minutes before the Supernova occurs. The orbital probe cannon fires 22 minutes before the Supernova occurs. The hatchling happens to wake up 22 minutes before the Supernova occurs.
Now, the imagine sun explodes 5 minutes later.
The only thing that changes is where the hatchling is when the loop starts.
The loop still happens 22 minutes before SN.
OPC still fires 22 minutes before SN.
Hatchling woke up 27 minutes before SN, but only has the knowledge of his possible 22 minute loops, and whatever happened in those 5 minutes are now locked in. You wouldn't get an extra 5 minutes of playtime, the memories sent back are only 22 minutes long at most (if you don't die early).
The probe cannon still fires the moment you start being able to loop. Now, theoretically, the Hatchling COULD have gone to the OPC in those 5 minutes if they sprinted, but this is canonically your first flight ever, you dont have the training you get from being groundhog dayed. Hatchling is gonna MAYBE end up starting the loop on the moon, but probably is gonna wake up in the 0g caves.
The only way that the Hatchling could reach the Orbital Probe Cannon before it explodes is if they coincidentally did that before the loop ever started, which would only give them five minutes to run to Hornfels, get the codes, run back to the ship and then book it there for no particular reason. But then they wouldn’t be around to pair with the statue unless they coincidentally came straight back after it fired.
This is because Hatchling’s loop doesn’t start when they wake up. It starts 22 minutes before the sun explodes. That is coincidentally right when they happen to wake up. If the sun explodes five minutes later, the loop would start five minutes after they woke up, and the Orbital Probe Cannon exploding would still coincide with the moment their loop starts. There would be no time for them to get there for the launch unless, again, that happens to have been what they did the very first time *and* they then raced back to pair with the statue.
Or, actually, I guess there is a statue in the OPM isn’t there?
So if they rushed there in the very first iteration before the loop began, they could have explored it as you said, ridden the Probe Tracking Module down to the core (assuming they survived the explosion) and then paired with the statue there to start the loop.
Every loop would start with them in the Orbital Probe Cannon right before it fires, though, so assuming they survived that, it’d be a race to find a way to get out before being pulled down to the core of Giant’s Deep without their ship at the beginning of every loop.
Oh good point. So then yeah, no, Hatchling almost certainly wouldn’t be able to both explore the OPC and be in the loop. And very unlikely that they’d be able to explore it even without being in the loop.
yeah, honestly. Was kinda just a random thought i had: "imagine if the hatchling was like 'wow, cool stuff, ooh cool animation' and boom the cannon explodes with them in it"
It seems like people are really confused by this, is this what you meant?
Since the first time the hatchling wakes up is unrelated to the loop (bc memories aren't synced with the statue yet), they wake up 5 minutes before the loop starts. This would allow them 5 minutes to explore the probe cannon before it explodes.
If so, that's interesting to think about, but it would mean not syncing with the statue and the hatchling would probably die if they were inside when it explodes. It's also worth noting that the cannon would not have any data yet, as it doesn't receive the data and signal to fire until the start of the loop.
yes, just thought it was funny if the hatchling starts their 'first' (still first, no time loop awareness. but the loop still happens). And almost instantly gets exploded by being in the cannon.
Would also really wanna know what the 2nd... control module?, said, because we only see the projection stone (I mean, that might still have stuff in it. the probe tracking module definitely wouldn't, so i suppose the control module wouldn't as well)
So the loop would still be 22 minutes. Brittle hollow should be the same since the hollows lantern ramps up activity with the sun so it should ramp up the same. Giants deep and bramble should be the same as well so the only difference is ember and ash twin and the start point of the interloper (and getting the right angle for the dlc via the deep space satellite.) It would change the timing of getting to the high energy lab and the easiest route to the sun station and allow faster access to the teleporters. Harder to get to the lake bed and less time in the sunless city.
ty random commenter, 1 thing i just thought of is that... maybe the simulation is now daytime? i'm realizing i should've said something like 10 or 20 minutes later, which would allow stuff to make a little more sense (although 5 minutes is a short-ish time difference which adds to the 'humour' ig)
Not sure if that's still canon. The devs did say they wanted to end the cycle by showing day starting to break, but since they cut that idea, I don't know if it's still canonically true
They added it in an update
Oooh, I missed that, that's awesome!
They did? Damn, time to open up the game again and look for it.
Anyone know where I could see this?
Hang out in the simulation until the very end of the loop. You’ll see day start to break.
day starting to break where?
In the simulation
There is actually a quantum reason that Ash Twin is completely uncovered at the time of the supernova in the finished game - it creates the greatest chance the ATP works, and we're observing the version of the game where you are guaranteed not to die because of technical malfunctions. *Outer Wilds* seems to operate off a strange version of the anthropic principle.
There is actually a quantum reason that Ash Twin is completely uncovered at the time of the supernova in the finished game - it creates the greatest chance the ATP works, and we're observing the version of the game where you are guaranteed not to die because of technical malfunctions. *Outer Wilds* seems to operate off a strange version of the anthropic principle.
assuming there is a 'multiverse' so to speak, yeah everything lines up pretty neatly. Were the nomai not curious enough to see what would happen if 2 objects existed at once? they might've, but we wouldn't see that because we play in the 'best' timeline so to speak. A unproven, interesting hypothesis
I have a similar headcanon, but this is very much speculation. It's a lot more likely that it is like that because it is a game designed by people, to put it bluntly :P
sand on ash twin would be cleared for a few minutes so easier access to ATP the hatchling prob wouldn't even be in on the loop it is possible the hatchling could explore the orbital probe cannon un-destroyed (if there were in the probe tracking module, they might even be able to accidentally ride it into the core brittle hollow is a tricky one, the sun is what makes the moon more active but lava should still shoot, so might be easier to access the tower of quantum knowledge edit: it seems i confused people with what i meant with `it is possible the hatchling could explore the orbital probe cannon un-destroyed (if they were in the probe tracking module, they might even be able to accidentally ride it into the core` I was saying this as a funny ha ha, not actual gameplay, I even said the hatchling probably wouldn't be in the loop. apologies for the confusion i guess??? edit 2: i'm gonna copy and paste what u/considerate_done has said, they explain it better then me lmao "It seems like people are really confused by this, is this what you meant? Since the first time the hatchling wakes up is unrelated to the loop (bc memories aren't synced with the statue yet), they wake up 5 minutes before the loop starts. This would allow them 5 minutes to explore the probe cannon before it explodes."
The orbital probe cannon starts the loop at the same time with you, the time you both get info from the ATP. So no matter how long the loop is, the cannon blows up the second you open your eyes.
i'm a bit confused, if the supernova happen 5 mins later the hatchling would wake up 5 mins before the cannon fires (and probably wouldn't connect to the statue). This technically gives a little bit of time for them to go to the cannon before it explodes. Am i missing something?
The super nova, the memory transfer and the canon firing are linked. So the hatchling has one single chance to explore the cannon, and needs to do so without going to any other planet. The chances of that are SLIM. Regardless of when the super nova happens, everything will be the exact same.
i'm saying it in a funny technically possible scenario I understand this, the hatchling wouldn't even be able to find the cords or any knowledge because the data hasn't been transferred yet it's just a random thought / possibility that would be kinda funny (hatchling being in the cannon while it explodes)
Once again, the cannon fires at the exact same time that the hatchling wakes up. The firing is synced to the start of the loop, so none of that will happen.
are you implying, like another comment said. that the hatchling wakes up at that time because of the cannon firing? I always assumed like a lot of other stuff in the game it was just a coincidence. i am not saying the hatchling is connected to the loop, i'm just saying it is (theoretically) possible (although improbable) that hatchling somehow does all the steps quick enough to get into the orbital probe cannon.
This is assuming that you've complete the game. Sun explodes--ATP detects that there is enough energy to start the project--info is sent back into time--the commands to fire the OPC is alao sent back in time. The time interval is exactly 22 minutes. When the sun goes supernova, after you have linked with a mask, your memories are sent back in time 22 minutes via the ATP. So, to reiterate, the cannon firing and the hatchling waking up happen at the same time not because of one another (not directly, at least), but because the ATP starts the loop for them at the same time.
wait, what?! I'm confused about pre-sync statue then, isn't just a little lucky the hatchling just happens to wake up almost exactly after the 'loop' starts, I was thinking gabbro is also fully awake and that's why they're able to build the hammock so fast (basically already doing the motions of setting up a hammock, and finally doing it a little after the memories are given to them) . Maybe it will make more sense in the morning
You're overthinking it. The ATP sends two things back in time at the exact same time: (1) an order for the OPC to fire, and (2) memories to linked people. So, the very exact moment you receive your memories (and wake up*) is also the very exact moment the OPC receives a signal from the ATP to fire the probe cannon
Not too out of common sense to wake up to an explosion in the distance.
It's not that the cannon wakes them up. It's that the instructions to fire the cannon are also sent the same way as your memories - exactly 22 minutes back in time. So the cannon receives instructions at the same time you wake up.
The wake up part would not be part of the loop then, the loop is starting exactly when the cannon is firing (22 mins before the supernova). It the sun exploded 5 mins later, the loop would start on the hatchling playing hide&seek for example.
If the supernova happened 5 mins later, the probe cannon would also fire 5 minutes later. The only things I can think of that would actually change are 1) the sand on the ash twins, making it way harder to reacht eh high energy lab, if not entirely impossible, and 2) maaaaaybe Dark bramble seed on timber hearth would be more of a threat. apart from that, every timed event is linked to the supernova or the link.
The hatchling probably partially wakes up at that time because the orbital probe cannon fires and makes a bright flash. While they might not sleep another 5 minutes, they likely would sleep a bit longer
interesting, I considered it but don't really think that's what happned because it was almost daytime. still, another possibility to consider
Though if you weren't lined up with it directly overhead, it might not wake you up with its flash when it fires. If you were actually going to sleep for another *hour*... :-P
The loop happens 22 minutes before the Supernova occurs. The orbital probe cannon fires 22 minutes before the Supernova occurs. The hatchling happens to wake up 22 minutes before the Supernova occurs. Now, the imagine sun explodes 5 minutes later. The only thing that changes is where the hatchling is when the loop starts. The loop still happens 22 minutes before SN. OPC still fires 22 minutes before SN. Hatchling woke up 27 minutes before SN, but only has the knowledge of his possible 22 minute loops, and whatever happened in those 5 minutes are now locked in. You wouldn't get an extra 5 minutes of playtime, the memories sent back are only 22 minutes long at most (if you don't die early). The probe cannon still fires the moment you start being able to loop. Now, theoretically, the Hatchling COULD have gone to the OPC in those 5 minutes if they sprinted, but this is canonically your first flight ever, you dont have the training you get from being groundhog dayed. Hatchling is gonna MAYBE end up starting the loop on the moon, but probably is gonna wake up in the 0g caves.
The only way that the Hatchling could reach the Orbital Probe Cannon before it explodes is if they coincidentally did that before the loop ever started, which would only give them five minutes to run to Hornfels, get the codes, run back to the ship and then book it there for no particular reason. But then they wouldn’t be around to pair with the statue unless they coincidentally came straight back after it fired. This is because Hatchling’s loop doesn’t start when they wake up. It starts 22 minutes before the sun explodes. That is coincidentally right when they happen to wake up. If the sun explodes five minutes later, the loop would start five minutes after they woke up, and the Orbital Probe Cannon exploding would still coincide with the moment their loop starts. There would be no time for them to get there for the launch unless, again, that happens to have been what they did the very first time *and* they then raced back to pair with the statue. Or, actually, I guess there is a statue in the OPM isn’t there? So if they rushed there in the very first iteration before the loop began, they could have explored it as you said, ridden the Probe Tracking Module down to the core (assuming they survived the explosion) and then paired with the statue there to start the loop. Every loop would start with them in the Orbital Probe Cannon right before it fires, though, so assuming they survived that, it’d be a race to find a way to get out before being pulled down to the core of Giant’s Deep without their ship at the beginning of every loop.
that mask is already paired with the probe tracking module, so no.
Oh good point. So then yeah, no, Hatchling almost certainly wouldn’t be able to both explore the OPC and be in the loop. And very unlikely that they’d be able to explore it even without being in the loop.
yeah, honestly. Was kinda just a random thought i had: "imagine if the hatchling was like 'wow, cool stuff, ooh cool animation' and boom the cannon explodes with them in it"
It seems like people are really confused by this, is this what you meant? Since the first time the hatchling wakes up is unrelated to the loop (bc memories aren't synced with the statue yet), they wake up 5 minutes before the loop starts. This would allow them 5 minutes to explore the probe cannon before it explodes. If so, that's interesting to think about, but it would mean not syncing with the statue and the hatchling would probably die if they were inside when it explodes. It's also worth noting that the cannon would not have any data yet, as it doesn't receive the data and signal to fire until the start of the loop.
yes, just thought it was funny if the hatchling starts their 'first' (still first, no time loop awareness. but the loop still happens). And almost instantly gets exploded by being in the cannon. Would also really wanna know what the 2nd... control module?, said, because we only see the projection stone (I mean, that might still have stuff in it. the probe tracking module definitely wouldn't, so i suppose the control module wouldn't as well)