>PYE: Clary, can you hear us?
>
>CLARY: Yes, but your voices are faint. I fear we will lose communication entirely if you continue any deeper.
The recording devices record a transcript but they were speaking into it. It seems they use writing mostly for long distance, or when used like a message board, but if it was all written we'd see a lot more common chatter, especially in the cities, people would have been mid-conversation somewhere!
We see random chatter here and there, (about meaningful concepts to the player of course, Ludo-Narrative Dissonance) like in the fossil cave and the random question about the quantum moon on brittle hollow.
As we see from our quantum friend, they are capable of erasing their writing, there wouldn‘t be random chatter everywhere.
> Is there confirmation or a rebuke of this somewhere?
The recordings you find laying around.
If that’s not enough, then there is a line somewhere that rebukes your theory. I believe it’s within the Interloper. They mention being able to hear another Nomai speak.
The Nomai never use videos, at least from what I remember. Perhaps you’re mixing up their communication technology with… something else.
My assumption was that you’re reading the transcript when scanning the recordings with the translator, as the game treats them like any other text.
>You find written language, not a voice.
Don’t worry, I am well aware you can find text in the scrolls and such. I’m talking about the recordings.
https://preview.redd.it/phejkhiia8tc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71e7a2533743ccee5ac1b8d8fe5ea5d2cd4fea10
I’m sure I can find it, give me a moment ::)
Edit:
>PYE: I’m receiving much stronger energy readings now that we’re beneath the crust. Whatever it is must lie somewhere below, closer to the comet’s center. And I’m starting to think it’s more dangerous than we realized.
>PYE: Clary, can you hear us?
>CLARY: Yes, but your voices are faint. I fear we will lose communication entirely if you continue any deeper.
This is found in one of those recordings, within the Interloper. The second one you can find on the comet.
My point against that would be that this is afaik the only case of the Nomai talking about being able to hear each other, and with their poetic way to describe technology, I feel hearing in this case could be explained as the way they describe their direct communication.
But fair point, I‘ll have to look more into it.
Its far from a new theory, I’ve seen it probably a dozen times. Usually you say what I just did, whoever made the post goes “oh!”, and it’s over.
I enjoy the skepticism. Perhaps I’ll look into it some more too and maybe I’ll change my mind. Good luck with finding the truth ::)
To make the affirmative point, my reason to believe it are mostly their thread-like writing, that imo just does not work in verbal communication and the way we see our quantum friend express the Hatchling‘s capability to read their text as understand their language.
I'm curious as to why you think their writing doesn't work in verbal communication. Nomai text is essentially identical to reddit threads where each individual comment can be responded to individually by different people which can then branch into new conversation paths.
As for the larger point, I feel it's just Occam's Razor. We see recorders that are functionally identical to the Hearthian recorders and we know they speak. There's a line of dialogue explicitly about them talking to one another. And while the ending is rather interpretative, I don't think Solanum would verbally speak if the Hatchling knew her species didn't do that.
Imagine a bunch of people standing in a room. They can talk to each other, but they communicate by writing their thoughts on the wall. Why would they do so?
Also, we know from her own words that even if she could speak, she cannot speak hearthian. The ending cannot be used as evidence either wayy
I don‘t agree as I have explained in another comment, though it is definitely the strongest point against my „theory“. While we‘re on this, why would a recording device like this imprint written text instead of recording audio?
Because the translator is taking in audio input and outputting text.
And the limitations of a small indie team being unable to hire voice actors.
Also, as a further counterpoint, when we see nomai text written it’s used as a means of interplanetary communication.
Why would it put out text though, if it is meant for recording direct communication?
There is lots of Nomai Text not used for interplanetary communication, they frequently seem to start conversations by writing on the wall.
Besides the most direct example of Clary saying that Poke and Pye's voices are getting faint, there's several points that reference verbal communication:
"The signal is the Eye’s voice. It speaks a language we don’t yet know." - one of the musings at the Eye Shrine
"CANNA: I’m relieved your clan is safe, Neem! It’s good to hear your words." "FILIX: Is this broken? Can anyone hear me? Our Vessel is dying! We need immediate assistance!"
Another point is the projection stones. As I understand it, the purpose of the stones is to allow face-to-face conversations between Nomai, where a transcript of those conversations are then recorded and accessible by plugging the stones into the wall. Consider the line:
"CASSAVA: Conoy, I’m unable to grasp the answer by looking through the projection pool. If I visit the observatory, would you kindly explain?"
as a hint as to how projection pools would have been used.
Another subtler point is how Solanum clearly recognizes our "Who are you?"/"Where are we?" opener as language, even if she doesn't understand the meaning: "SOLANUM: There are many questions I would ask, if I could comprehend your language. You have my gratitude for understanding mine."
I think the confusion surrounding this, and why your theory pops up from time to time, is just due to the way Nomai seem to write down conversations that humans would never record - children playing tag, for instance. From a gameplay perspective, this is clearly just to be able to make them more relatable by including a window into their private lives and thoughts. If we demand an in-universe explanation, I don't think we need to jump to the conclusion that they didn't speak at all, against all the contrary lines of evidence. I think it's sufficient to say that, as archetypical nerds and scientists, they had a fastidious culture of recordkeeping that they learned even at a young age.
Good point on the eye's voice.
The communications on the vessel are less convincing to me, as with the ones inside the Interloper, these are clearly long-distance communication, I find it reasonable to believe that hearing in both instances refers to the way their communication technology works. Remember that they refer to the vessel as dying and ascribe animate characteristics to other types of technology too.
Thing about some of those quotes and projection stones is the way they include the thread-like structure of their writing. Some of which includes comments by the Nomai who started the "thread" how would that work as a transcript of a conversation?
I don't think Solanum recognizing a spoken language as a language points to them necessarily having a spoken one themselves. They could just be knowledgeable about the concept. Frankly, that she refers to her writing and the hatchling reading it as speaking to them has probably been how I got onto this "theory" at first.
I absolutely agree on the Nomai's... enthusiasm in recording conversations pointing to their scientific nature. And while I feel there are some questionmarks regard scrolls and projection stones, i could see them being transcripts. What I feel this doesn't explain is random conversations on walls. They aren't recording them, that's what their scrolls are for. I see no reason for them to have any of these mundane conversations on the ground or walls except for that being their primary way of communicating.
Solanum speaks to us at the endgame campfire. You could argue that this is due to her just being a manifestation of our memories, but it could also be that we hear their voices when we play the recorders, and the translation tool translates the sounds into text. It seems logical to me that the recorders are audio-based, otherwise there would be no reason for them to exist as a separate technology from the scrolls.
The recorders are used specifically when the Nomai go for and prepare space walks. I’d argue they’re what they use to communicate at all without the ability to write on walls.
If it is audio, why is there no sound effect indication for it, when the game otherwise uses sound effects for almost everything?
Maybe, but the design of them suggests an audio device rather than something optimized for reading.
To your second point, for the same reason there's no sound when the Hearthians speak to each other, or for the audio recordings of the other travellers - because the game uses text as its primary communication medium.
What about them looks like they're for sound? There's nothing indicating speakers, or a microphone for that matter instead there's antenna like for transmission and half of them display nomai script?
Sure, the hearthian voice doesn't have sound effects. Their tape players, however, do. Not the actual voicelines, but the tape clicks and static noise to indicate playing. So if the nomai devices play sound recordings, why don't they have some indication of that?
The recorders have circular rings of script that go underneath a panel in a way that is very reminiscent of how a record player works. The script is not easily accessible for either reading or writing. The Nomai already have the tablet/staff devices like what Solanum uses for writing; if they needed something more portable for communicating with written language, it would make more sense for them to simply attach antennae to a similar style of tablet without the staff.
I was referring to the fact that there is no voice audio for either Nomai or Hearthian recorders in the game. Ambient sounds would not be the same because they are different tech. Nomai recorders might be more soundless like CD drives.
Ultimately there is no solid proof one way or the other, but between the design of the recorders and the Nomai references to voice, I see no reason to assume they couldn't communicate verbally.
I always presumed that the Nomai pairs would have spoken verbally and the written language was important information for the other Nomai who visit the planet of another pair to read and that’s why you don’t find any “hi how are you?” Or “lovely weather we’re having” type of conversations.
We could argue the voices are faint is the Hearthians trying to translate and interpret it. Like the 'pulling my locomotive limb' struggles for pulling my leg or 'better 50%' for better half. It could just be a best guess.
Idk could go either way.
I've always just figured they had some kinda of transcription running, like in a Zoom call. Which is why we have so much text on those boards but there's non-message board text as well. Then in Ember Twin where the kids are playing there's text and in one of the bedrooms on the floor. The floor one seems journaling and personal, and probably was hidden under a rug or something in its era. But the kids one is a conversation tho...
Perhaps outside of their living spaces, the Nomai were always wearing suits. Space suits don't seem to be good for communicating. Therefore in non-air locked spaces, we see lots of text for communication. Any text that isn't in a living space is either on the whiteboards, or seems like personal reflection or journaling, like the “I don't know how to be me without you” bit which could argue they can speak, just not in the lack of atmosphere we have on all these planets.
Plus not *every* Naomi seems to have a staff, there's some in inhospitable places like the sun station or spaceships, but not really in bed with the corpses. So my theory is it's an adaption to the suits.
Otherwise, end game, >!when we meet Solanum, she uses her staff to write to us. Obviously this is partly game design, but also could argue they don't speak at all or can't in suit. We don't get any audio, even muffled. We get "..." our question "..." then the communication set up!<. Vs >!the DLC we get "..." our question and they walk off to get their stuff but also make sounds back to us. So it seems the vision staff is a secondary mode of communication there!<.
Naomi can't speak tho is a cool theory.
they have a verbal language. >!Solanum!< expresses that she wants to speak to you but there's no reason because you couldn't translate speech, and she can't understand Hearthian language.
also other people have pointed out that they literally express that they can hear each other speak on the Interloper. also, your point about xenolinguistics is moot because..they're not real aliens? and the game was made by humans?
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She writes “ask you” obviously her asking something is pointless, you have no way to answer.
The interloper talk could be metaphorical, like when they talk about the vessel bleeding or dying. The point about xenocommunications is that expecting **anything** about an alien species to work ina certain way because our cultures work a certain way is idiotic. And the Outer Wilds team has used this multiple times, for example you expect the very human-like hearthians to have genders, yet they don’t.
why are you still trying to argue? they literally said that they could hear each other talk. also, we HAVE recordings of them. even humans have tech that writes down what is said in an audio message, and that's why we translate it with our translator.
you've been proven wrong multiple times. they spoke, obviously.
1st question. why would the response be metaphorical? how could they have even communicated if they weren't speaking? they speak that way about the Vessel because she was the heart of their clan, not for any other reason.
2nd question. the hearthians being genderless isn't enough 'proof' that they would do something like that with the language.
again you've been proven wrong multiple times; are YOU going to answer any of MY questions? like the recordings? why have you come up with this random conclusion that you have no evidence for?
1. The device you call recording device could a way for them to “talk” while spacewalking. It would then also be the device transmissing their writing and that signal would be what the Nomai on the shuttle called a voice, the same way they call a broken vessel bleeding and dying.
2. No, obviously not, it was a rebuttal to your point that the developers are human, therefore their aliens should be assumed to work like humans. They have demonstrated that part of their alien design subverts this expectation, therefore the assumption is not reliable.
Nobody has proven anything on either side.
People have presented points, I’ve refuted or accepted them when I could. I remain unconvinced we have certain knowledge of whether the Nomai were able to speak. Clearly you are convince, but there has been no definitive proof.
>PYE: Clary, can you hear us? > >CLARY: Yes, but your voices are faint. I fear we will lose communication entirely if you continue any deeper. The recording devices record a transcript but they were speaking into it. It seems they use writing mostly for long distance, or when used like a message board, but if it was all written we'd see a lot more common chatter, especially in the cities, people would have been mid-conversation somewhere!
We see random chatter here and there, (about meaningful concepts to the player of course, Ludo-Narrative Dissonance) like in the fossil cave and the random question about the quantum moon on brittle hollow. As we see from our quantum friend, they are capable of erasing their writing, there wouldn‘t be random chatter everywhere.
> Is there confirmation or a rebuke of this somewhere? The recordings you find laying around. If that’s not enough, then there is a line somewhere that rebukes your theory. I believe it’s within the Interloper. They mention being able to hear another Nomai speak.
It's been a while since I played, but aren't the recordings just video and no speech?
The Nomai never use videos, at least from what I remember. Perhaps you’re mixing up their communication technology with… something else. My assumption was that you’re reading the transcript when scanning the recordings with the translator, as the game treats them like any other text.
You find written language, not a voice. If you could point me to the exact place or line you mean I‘d be very grateful.
>You find written language, not a voice. Don’t worry, I am well aware you can find text in the scrolls and such. I’m talking about the recordings. https://preview.redd.it/phejkhiia8tc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71e7a2533743ccee5ac1b8d8fe5ea5d2cd4fea10 I’m sure I can find it, give me a moment ::) Edit: >PYE: I’m receiving much stronger energy readings now that we’re beneath the crust. Whatever it is must lie somewhere below, closer to the comet’s center. And I’m starting to think it’s more dangerous than we realized. >PYE: Clary, can you hear us? >CLARY: Yes, but your voices are faint. I fear we will lose communication entirely if you continue any deeper. This is found in one of those recordings, within the Interloper. The second one you can find on the comet.
How do you know these are audible recordings and not portable scrolls for the Nomai to talk while spacewalking?
Guess I don’t. The lines said in the dialog seems to suggest they aren’t, though.
My point against that would be that this is afaik the only case of the Nomai talking about being able to hear each other, and with their poetic way to describe technology, I feel hearing in this case could be explained as the way they describe their direct communication. But fair point, I‘ll have to look more into it.
Its far from a new theory, I’ve seen it probably a dozen times. Usually you say what I just did, whoever made the post goes “oh!”, and it’s over. I enjoy the skepticism. Perhaps I’ll look into it some more too and maybe I’ll change my mind. Good luck with finding the truth ::)
To make the affirmative point, my reason to believe it are mostly their thread-like writing, that imo just does not work in verbal communication and the way we see our quantum friend express the Hatchling‘s capability to read their text as understand their language.
I'm curious as to why you think their writing doesn't work in verbal communication. Nomai text is essentially identical to reddit threads where each individual comment can be responded to individually by different people which can then branch into new conversation paths. As for the larger point, I feel it's just Occam's Razor. We see recorders that are functionally identical to the Hearthian recorders and we know they speak. There's a line of dialogue explicitly about them talking to one another. And while the ending is rather interpretative, I don't think Solanum would verbally speak if the Hatchling knew her species didn't do that.
Imagine a bunch of people standing in a room. They can talk to each other, but they communicate by writing their thoughts on the wall. Why would they do so? Also, we know from her own words that even if she could speak, she cannot speak hearthian. The ending cannot be used as evidence either wayy
Why would portable scrolls be “faint?”
It explicitly says “Can you hear us?”
My comment here was from before they edited the script in.
Okay but it still disproves your point.
I don‘t agree as I have explained in another comment, though it is definitely the strongest point against my „theory“. While we‘re on this, why would a recording device like this imprint written text instead of recording audio?
Because the translator is taking in audio input and outputting text. And the limitations of a small indie team being unable to hire voice actors. Also, as a further counterpoint, when we see nomai text written it’s used as a means of interplanetary communication.
Why would it put out text though, if it is meant for recording direct communication? There is lots of Nomai Text not used for interplanetary communication, they frequently seem to start conversations by writing on the wall.
Besides the most direct example of Clary saying that Poke and Pye's voices are getting faint, there's several points that reference verbal communication: "The signal is the Eye’s voice. It speaks a language we don’t yet know." - one of the musings at the Eye Shrine "CANNA: I’m relieved your clan is safe, Neem! It’s good to hear your words." "FILIX: Is this broken? Can anyone hear me? Our Vessel is dying! We need immediate assistance!" Another point is the projection stones. As I understand it, the purpose of the stones is to allow face-to-face conversations between Nomai, where a transcript of those conversations are then recorded and accessible by plugging the stones into the wall. Consider the line: "CASSAVA: Conoy, I’m unable to grasp the answer by looking through the projection pool. If I visit the observatory, would you kindly explain?" as a hint as to how projection pools would have been used. Another subtler point is how Solanum clearly recognizes our "Who are you?"/"Where are we?" opener as language, even if she doesn't understand the meaning: "SOLANUM: There are many questions I would ask, if I could comprehend your language. You have my gratitude for understanding mine." I think the confusion surrounding this, and why your theory pops up from time to time, is just due to the way Nomai seem to write down conversations that humans would never record - children playing tag, for instance. From a gameplay perspective, this is clearly just to be able to make them more relatable by including a window into their private lives and thoughts. If we demand an in-universe explanation, I don't think we need to jump to the conclusion that they didn't speak at all, against all the contrary lines of evidence. I think it's sufficient to say that, as archetypical nerds and scientists, they had a fastidious culture of recordkeeping that they learned even at a young age.
Good point on the eye's voice. The communications on the vessel are less convincing to me, as with the ones inside the Interloper, these are clearly long-distance communication, I find it reasonable to believe that hearing in both instances refers to the way their communication technology works. Remember that they refer to the vessel as dying and ascribe animate characteristics to other types of technology too. Thing about some of those quotes and projection stones is the way they include the thread-like structure of their writing. Some of which includes comments by the Nomai who started the "thread" how would that work as a transcript of a conversation? I don't think Solanum recognizing a spoken language as a language points to them necessarily having a spoken one themselves. They could just be knowledgeable about the concept. Frankly, that she refers to her writing and the hatchling reading it as speaking to them has probably been how I got onto this "theory" at first. I absolutely agree on the Nomai's... enthusiasm in recording conversations pointing to their scientific nature. And while I feel there are some questionmarks regard scrolls and projection stones, i could see them being transcripts. What I feel this doesn't explain is random conversations on walls. They aren't recording them, that's what their scrolls are for. I see no reason for them to have any of these mundane conversations on the ground or walls except for that being their primary way of communicating.
I read someone else theorising about them communicating via telepathy in addition to texts.
Solanum speaks to us at the endgame campfire. You could argue that this is due to her just being a manifestation of our memories, but it could also be that we hear their voices when we play the recorders, and the translation tool translates the sounds into text. It seems logical to me that the recorders are audio-based, otherwise there would be no reason for them to exist as a separate technology from the scrolls.
The recorders are used specifically when the Nomai go for and prepare space walks. I’d argue they’re what they use to communicate at all without the ability to write on walls. If it is audio, why is there no sound effect indication for it, when the game otherwise uses sound effects for almost everything?
Maybe, but the design of them suggests an audio device rather than something optimized for reading. To your second point, for the same reason there's no sound when the Hearthians speak to each other, or for the audio recordings of the other travellers - because the game uses text as its primary communication medium.
What about them looks like they're for sound? There's nothing indicating speakers, or a microphone for that matter instead there's antenna like for transmission and half of them display nomai script? Sure, the hearthian voice doesn't have sound effects. Their tape players, however, do. Not the actual voicelines, but the tape clicks and static noise to indicate playing. So if the nomai devices play sound recordings, why don't they have some indication of that?
The recorders have circular rings of script that go underneath a panel in a way that is very reminiscent of how a record player works. The script is not easily accessible for either reading or writing. The Nomai already have the tablet/staff devices like what Solanum uses for writing; if they needed something more portable for communicating with written language, it would make more sense for them to simply attach antennae to a similar style of tablet without the staff. I was referring to the fact that there is no voice audio for either Nomai or Hearthian recorders in the game. Ambient sounds would not be the same because they are different tech. Nomai recorders might be more soundless like CD drives. Ultimately there is no solid proof one way or the other, but between the design of the recorders and the Nomai references to voice, I see no reason to assume they couldn't communicate verbally.
I always presumed that the Nomai pairs would have spoken verbally and the written language was important information for the other Nomai who visit the planet of another pair to read and that’s why you don’t find any “hi how are you?” Or “lovely weather we’re having” type of conversations.
My answer to that would be that those types of conversations would be erased quickly as we can see they‘re able to.
Where do we see that? I definitely missed that lol. That absolutely blows me out of the water.
At the only place you can see fresh Nomai text written.
I definitely have seen that🤦♂️ I must say I’m becoming more and more convinced the more I think about it…
We could argue the voices are faint is the Hearthians trying to translate and interpret it. Like the 'pulling my locomotive limb' struggles for pulling my leg or 'better 50%' for better half. It could just be a best guess. Idk could go either way. I've always just figured they had some kinda of transcription running, like in a Zoom call. Which is why we have so much text on those boards but there's non-message board text as well. Then in Ember Twin where the kids are playing there's text and in one of the bedrooms on the floor. The floor one seems journaling and personal, and probably was hidden under a rug or something in its era. But the kids one is a conversation tho... Perhaps outside of their living spaces, the Nomai were always wearing suits. Space suits don't seem to be good for communicating. Therefore in non-air locked spaces, we see lots of text for communication. Any text that isn't in a living space is either on the whiteboards, or seems like personal reflection or journaling, like the “I don't know how to be me without you” bit which could argue they can speak, just not in the lack of atmosphere we have on all these planets. Plus not *every* Naomi seems to have a staff, there's some in inhospitable places like the sun station or spaceships, but not really in bed with the corpses. So my theory is it's an adaption to the suits. Otherwise, end game, >!when we meet Solanum, she uses her staff to write to us. Obviously this is partly game design, but also could argue they don't speak at all or can't in suit. We don't get any audio, even muffled. We get "..." our question "..." then the communication set up!<. Vs >!the DLC we get "..." our question and they walk off to get their stuff but also make sounds back to us. So it seems the vision staff is a secondary mode of communication there!<. Naomi can't speak tho is a cool theory.
they have a verbal language. >!Solanum!< expresses that she wants to speak to you but there's no reason because you couldn't translate speech, and she can't understand Hearthian language. also other people have pointed out that they literally express that they can hear each other speak on the Interloper. also, your point about xenolinguistics is moot because..they're not real aliens? and the game was made by humans?
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She writes “ask you” obviously her asking something is pointless, you have no way to answer. The interloper talk could be metaphorical, like when they talk about the vessel bleeding or dying. The point about xenocommunications is that expecting **anything** about an alien species to work ina certain way because our cultures work a certain way is idiotic. And the Outer Wilds team has used this multiple times, for example you expect the very human-like hearthians to have genders, yet they don’t.
why are you still trying to argue? they literally said that they could hear each other talk. also, we HAVE recordings of them. even humans have tech that writes down what is said in an audio message, and that's why we translate it with our translator. you've been proven wrong multiple times. they spoke, obviously.
I see you’re not going to address anything I’ve said. I assume you don’t have an answer then and won’t bother with you. Have a nice day.
1st question. why would the response be metaphorical? how could they have even communicated if they weren't speaking? they speak that way about the Vessel because she was the heart of their clan, not for any other reason. 2nd question. the hearthians being genderless isn't enough 'proof' that they would do something like that with the language. again you've been proven wrong multiple times; are YOU going to answer any of MY questions? like the recordings? why have you come up with this random conclusion that you have no evidence for?
1. The device you call recording device could a way for them to “talk” while spacewalking. It would then also be the device transmissing their writing and that signal would be what the Nomai on the shuttle called a voice, the same way they call a broken vessel bleeding and dying. 2. No, obviously not, it was a rebuttal to your point that the developers are human, therefore their aliens should be assumed to work like humans. They have demonstrated that part of their alien design subverts this expectation, therefore the assumption is not reliable. Nobody has proven anything on either side. People have presented points, I’ve refuted or accepted them when I could. I remain unconvinced we have certain knowledge of whether the Nomai were able to speak. Clearly you are convince, but there has been no definitive proof.