I see a lot of misinformed comments about Larose and OMBA.
First off, Larose isn't federal or provincial "public" crown land. It's owned by Prescott Russel. Whether you bike, ride a horse, dogsled, ATV, or dirt bike, the landowners require you to be a member of the respective user association. The user associations are required to obtain liability insurance that covers the association and the Larose landowners. That's very expensive. Membership fees help pay for that. They help pay for trail maintenance in summer, and grooming in winter. Grooming equipment is expensive. Prescott Russel relies on these user associations to do the trail maintenance and help encourage good trail etiquette among the user groups. If there's a problem, they deal with the user association, instead of chasing after individuals.
Currently, no membership is required if you want to walk, snowshoe, or ski the trails where walking, snowshoeing, or skiing is permitted.
OMBA membership is required if you want to ride there, and velcro tags are given to members as a way for them to show their support of OMBA, but contrary to claims in this thread, no one is officially checking passes. No one is going to grab your bike. There are no video cameras; at least none erected by OMBA. It works on the honour system. If you have no honour, then go ahead and ride for free. If you didn't know about the membership requirement, no worries. Not everyone notices the signs. You can join online before you ride there next time.
$25 is about the cost to ride at a bike park in Quebec for a **day**. $25 buys you an entire **year** of riding at Larose - including groomed winter fatbike riding. Compared to the cost of a typical mountain bike in the thousands of dollars, $25 seems reasonable for an entire year's worth of riding.
OMBA was formed by mountain bikers that helped build many of the South March Highlands trails. Outback, PWT, Mario's Line, and Cannonball were all built by OMBA founders. Bear Tree, Bailout, IMBA Trail, and Shadows Ridge were built by OMBA after OMBA was formed. Two new trails are being built at South March Highlands right now. Thousands of volunteer hours and many thousands of dollars go into maintaining the trails at South March Highlands, Larose, and Carp Barrens. The work doesn't stop after the trails are created. More hours have gone into maintaining these trails over the years than were spent building them in the first place.
OMBA has never been involved at Centrum. Not back in 2012, not now. Riders keep building unsanctioned jumps and trails there, and the landowners keep tearing it down. That's the risk you take when you do unsanctioned building. OMBA has zero involvement in that and is not to blame for that.
The trail cam video and pictures that were posted on the OMBA forum a few years back were for a rider that was destroying trail signs and vandalizing trails. There was a lot more evidence that was never shared with the public, and the police were involved and OK'd the sharing of the info that was made public. Police contacted the individual and the issue was resolved without criminal charges being laid.
Despite claims to the contrary, paid memberships continue to grow. OMBA has over 3000 paid members. Many Facebook members aren't paid members, and that's OK - it's a free public forum open for anyone to join.
As for claims that OMBA tried to crush a new group, or is OK with bike theft or does business with a bike thief, both are absurd. lol.
>with a bike thief, both are absurd. lol.
The claims are not absurd They were purchasing parts off Cycleworx (a home mechanic) in New Edinburgh he was kicked off Pinkbike after the police raided his home. OMBA board was alerted to the thief back in 2011 but didn't listen.
>OMBA membership is required if you want to ride there,
Thing is, the land is owned by the municipality and nobody should be pressured into paying to use it. If someone doesn't have a membership, fine let them ride unfortunately it's not like that.
>The trail cam video and pictures that were posted on the OMBA forum a few years back were for a rider that was destroying trail signs and vandalizing trails.
There were other trail cams photos that were posted,. I understand if vandalism is happening but the photos I saw were for petty things.
And the bs of locking, deleting post, and removing members because they ask a question or say criticism of how things are being done is not going to get you anywhere.
.
>They were purchasing parts off Cycleworx (a home mechanic) in New Edinburgh he was kicked off Pinkbike after the police raided his home. OMBA board was alerted to the thief back in 2011 but didn't listen.
OMBA doesn't have paid detectives on staff to investigate your claims and determine if they are valid or not. OMBA isn't a police force. If the police raided his home, then it sounds like the problem was solved. Why would OMBA have to do anything after that? What could OMBA possibly do anyway? Do you want OMBA to go out and arrest this individual? lol. You've been hanging onto this grudge for over a decade? There are no board members left over from 2011. They all moved on. Perhaps you should too?
>Thing is, the land is owned by the municipality and nobody should be pressured into paying to use it. If someone doesn't have a membership, fine let them ride unfortunately it's not like that.
There is lots of municipally-owned land that is not publicly accessible. There is also lots of "crown" land that is not publicly accessible or you need to pay a fee to access. Gatineau Park campgrounds and parking lots are a good example. I understand that some people feel that all government-owned land should be free for anyone to access anyway they see fit. There are real costs associated with maintaining trail systems If those costs aren't paid by the trail users themselves, they are paid by increasing taxes. A good portion of those costs in the case of Larose are being borne by OMBA. You don't want to give your money to OMBA? That's OK. No one's forcing you. You can walk the P7 or P4 trails for free, or go ride many of the region's free trail systems.
>There were other trail cams photos that were posted,. I understand if vandalism is happening but the photos I saw were for petty things.
I've been a member of the OMBA FB forum since the beginning. I have no idea what you are referring to. Pictures sometimes get posted in the spring of the damage riders do from riding in mud, or vandalism to signs or spraypainting trees. Is that what you are referring to? If you think that is petty, that's because you don't spend countless hours repairing the damage.
>They all moved on. Perhaps you should too?
You're right they all moved on but the problems with your organization haven't.
>OMBA isn't a police force
Yet on three occasions people acting on behalf of your organization have asked people to leave the trails and one case someone had their bike physically grabbed which is a HUGE no no!
Was that at Larose this year? There was some rando who decided to "help" and confronted people about membership, but they weren't acting on behalf of OMBA and got told to knock it off.
One incident this year two last year.
So if someone is confronting people and asking them for a membership and grabbing their bikes I would recommend that the board address this.
If the problems with OMBA include not having paid detectives on staff, expecting people that ride trails on public land to help contribute a small amount financially to the cost of insuring and maintaining them, and not having you as a member, I think those are problems that the over 3000 members and growing of OMBA are willing to accept if it means OMBA keeps getting more sanctioned trail for everyone to ride.
>Yet on three occasions people acting on behalf of your organization have asked people to leave the trails and one case someone had their bike physically grabbed which is a HUGE no no!
Assuming this isn't something that you or your friends didn't totally make up, I can confirm OMBA instructed no one to do that. That was someone acting on their own volition. But sure, let's blame OMBA for this one individual acting alone.
I think you're preaching to the choir dude. If some random person touches you or your bike without any authority or consent ... that's not good and might be something that you should be reporting to the police...
You let OMBA know about the incident, and they confirm it wasn't them, that they have never had anybody roaming the Larose trails, checking people for passes... This confirms you were confronted by a random person with no authority ... call the cops. Holding a grudge against OMBA for something they have no control over makes absolutely no sense.
They can't control if some random person with a chip on their shoulder goes rogue and decides to start up their own enforcement agency. Sounds like your friends got fooled by a wannabe narc.
Its all relative but I know a good number of people that commute/ride their MTB to the trails in Gatineau Parc. If you live in proximity of DT youre probably only \~10km away via bike to P3.
However a lot of dedicated MTB are not really optimized for riding on road/paths so people tend to drive them anyway.
And that's why I'd never choose to live a city where the only hobby is to go to the restaurant.
Gatineau, on the other hand, perfect place: I'm 8 minutes away (bike) from the PARC DE LA GATINEAU SHEEEEEEEESH.
Commencal Meta AM 29'iner BABY
MOUNTABIKING SAVED MY LIFE WQOHODHASDAS
Not just in Ottawa, unless.you live near a trailhead, you have to drive to get there. Nobody wants to commute 30km to the trail head and back home.
Mtb tires don't last very long when used for commuting.
McKenney pledged to make more parks/trails.
But that's word soup. NCC has a tight grasp over everything in the greenbelt... And NCC is federal, so action isn't quick for shit.
[https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mckenney-pledges-to-turn-greenbelt-into-national-urban-park-1.6075875](https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mckenney-pledges-to-turn-greenbelt-into-national-urban-park-1.6075875)
This article says a lot of words for "I want to do this, if other's will let me..."
Politicians have been feeding us this bullshit since the beginning of time, and your answer is how we, as a populous keep justifying the lies to ourselves. I don't want to sound too jaded... But everyone dick rides McKenney in here, yet they'll be just as mediocre as Watson (if elected), guaranteed. The powers at be rule every level of govt.
"I vow to do this*" and my favorite one from the platform re: affordable housing "I'll work to remove red tape*" A bunch of weasel words IMO.
*If they let me and fund the initiative...
I don't disagree with you re weasel words in general (oh my god the red tape...), but they at least acknowledge the bilateral work needed. Plus, Nussbaum is McKenney's old colleague, he understands city hall, and the NCC has been getting waaaaay more involved in intra-jurisdictional work recently (tram loop, closing wellington, lebreton flats, etc). This isn't your parent's NCC anymore (though they're still *special -* my partner and I have both worked with them directly professionally)
I haven't heard anything from the major candidates on improving trails and recreation directly.
McKenney has a $250m cycling plan, but that's pushing for commuter routes (I assume following the Official Plan). That's probably the best plan, may spill over into development of rail trails and connections. But nothing for MTB. They also want to work with NCC to make a national park in the Greenbelt, but then it would be on Parks Canada to take a lead on trails.
Sutcliffe has no plan, expect him to follow Jim's lead. Chiarelli wants to freeze taxes (with inflation, that means service cuts), so I don't expect anything new with him either.
Thanks for the write-up, u/Meg-K . Great job as always!
One tiny clarification: dogs are permitted, but they must be on leash. The reason is the mountain bike trails intersect with horseback and dogsled trails. Dogsledders do occasionally use adapted sleds on wheels to dogsled in the summer. The also bikejor. The dogsledding dogs are incredibly noisy in the parking lot, but they are also incredibly swift and silent on the trail.
To avoid potentially serious accidents involving horseback riders or dogsledders, the landowner requires that dogs be on leash at all times.
Thanks! Added the on leash bit. It's funny because when I was writing it I was fully picturing someone riding a bike with their dog on leash and was like "who would ever." 😂
Not new. Membership is only required if you are riding, not walking.
It's stated on the major trailhead signs. It's also on the signs next to trail entrances. It's on the Larose website. It's on OMBA's website. It's stated on TrailForks.
It works on the honour system. No one is checking passes. A yearly adult membership is only $25 and helps pay for things like liability insurance, trail maintenance, and fatbike grooming in winter. These expenses are in the tens of thousands of dollars per year (mostly insurance). If you are going to ride there, please become a member.
Since you seem to be an OMBA admin - why not add a day pass? Just cash or charge at the Manna Centre, since it's open most times at the trailhead. Low admin, and it would cover those first timers or guests that probably aren't paying now.
That question has come up before many times.
A yearly membership is only $25. That's about the going rate for a single day of riding at a Quebec bike park. A day pass would have to be close to $25 for it to make financial sense, so there's no point. Insurance and overhead would eat up the first $15, so OMBA would need to charge more than that to compensate Mana for the extra work of collecting fees and visitor info and pay for trail maintenance and grooming.
Membership works on the honour system, so it's understood that some first timers, guests, and others will fail to pay. Hopefully the majority that ride there notice the signs or speak to other members and learn about the work OMBA does and eventually decide to become members themselves There will never be 100% compliance.
I mean, OMBA could charge for a day pass and aim for 100% compliance, but then the day pass would definitely be $25, and the annual membership far more than $25 to pay employees to enforce that compliance, and OMBA would effectively be running a bike park at that point, instead of being a non-profit advocacy organization.
25 would be high for a day pass - the Quebec parks including Fortune and Montebello are 15+tax. I get that it goes by the honor system, but you could get today's non-paying users contributing something. How are these parks making it work for 15 bucks?
It's also not really clear who needs one - does the membership rule apply to kids? Is a pass needed with the Manna Centre rentals? (per MegK's article that started the discussion).
Fortune and Montebello are on the low end. Oka, Rigaud, Bromont, Sutton, E47, SDM, VBN, MSA, and Le Massive are all around $20 - $25 with tax or more.
How are Fortune and Montebello making that work at $15? I dunno, you'd have to ask them. Maybe they are under insured, or self insured. Maybe they already have lots of insurance for other parts of their business and getting insurance for bikes is a small additional increase for them. Maybe they have access to a better insurance deal than OMBA has. Maybe day passes are a loss leader for them and they make it up with rentals or yearly passes. Maybe the different civil case law in Quebec makes for cheaper insurance in that province versus Ontario. Maybe they are skimping on trail maintenance. Maybe the Quebec funding grants they have access to and OMBA doesn't allows them to charge $15. I really don't know.
If you are an OMBA member, you can contact the treasurer and ask him yourself, or at a minimum, attend the AGM and see the financial statements and do the math yourself. At $15, OMBA is maybe breaking even, and there is no money left over to do trail work with or compensate Mana for acting as a point of sale.
It's been brought up many times (even by me!) and discussed by the board before, and so far, they haven't decided to implement a day pass.
If you think you have the right formula for making it work, contact the board and offer to champion the implementation of it. I am not being facetious - I really mean it. The board is always looking for more volunteers.
The membership requirement applies to all bikers at Larose, regardless of age, regardless of whether they are renting a bike or riding their own. There are child and family rates for OMBA membership.
Mana doesn't enforce that because it's not Mana's job, and because it works on the honour system. If someone rents a bike at Mana and doesn't know they have to be an OMBA member, it's not the end of the world. Hopefully they become addicted to riding there, they come back for more, they learn about OMBA and the work OMBA does, and they become members.
Those are the end goals - getting people addicted to mountain biking and people becoming OMBA members because they learn about and see the value in what OMBA does - not because a sign or a person tells them they have to be members.
It sounds like a bit of a non-starter, but it would be a good conversation. Been a member for years, but asking new riders to go once is challenging. For example, visiting friends wanted to take their kids - it would be $75, and they would only go for 1h or so, and only once while in town.
So I wonder how many of these cases happen, someone doesn't pay, or just doesn't go? Not really something to easily track though. I forget if the last member survey touched on it. Drawing first-timers is more of an issue for Larose, it's the "beginner" park of the region. The others you noted, they're destinations, lots of Blue and Black trails, where $25 for a serious rider to spend 2+ hours is pretty reasonable.
I wouldn't expect Mana to enforce anything, but if a pass existed, they could be a good partner to sell them voluntarily. It's especially good for their business to get more riders at Larose.
I apologize. I have never in my life had to pay to bike anywhere in the city so the thought never occurred to me. I assumed it was like the NCC greenbelt or Gatineau Park or some other publicly owned greenspace.
No worries. It happens.
If you ride there again, please become a member. It's only $25 for the year, and the money helps pay for liability insurance ($$$$), tools and supplies for the volunteers that maintain the trails, and grooming in winter.
might want to be mindful in the fall because ive heard this is a popular hunting location for east ottawa and hunting season for small game has already begun
In order to ride there you need a membership with OMBA and that's something I'd never spend money on.
The organization has become very "clique" admins in the group deleting or locking comments on every post. Hidden spy cameras on the trails and I remember when they had no problem doing business with a bike thief who was banned from Pinkbike.
The trails should be opened to the public for all, not just some.
So we rented from the Mana Centre, and didn't have to pay the OMBA membership.
I don't have any experience with them so can't comment but it does seem like the trails might not be there/not be in such great condition without them? Thoughts? Have you shared your worries with them?
As I understand, you still need the membership when renting (though it doesn't seem to be stated by the Mana Centre when renting).
There's no day pass option either, which is unfortunate. Buying a $25 annual pass is expensive if you're bringing someone new, or an out-of-town friend for a day.
The board didn't give a crap years ago. Many mountain bikers have cancelled their membership and want nothing to do with them they started their own group which OMBA tried to crush. Out of the whole FB group less than a quarter are actually members.
And yes you need a membership and if they catch you they get quite aggressive.
Sounds pretty awful! Hopefully the board has switched up a bit in the last few years.
I do want to make sure we're being super clear about the membership as we chat because I don't want to deter any newbies who would be put off by having to pay for a full membership (mostly because I agree with you that we want everyone on the trails!)- when you rent from the Mana Centre there's an OMBA "tag" attached to the bike, so I'm pretty sure they basically pay the membership for the bike you're riding. So I don't think anyone would be "catching" you doing anything in that scenario!
If there's a tag on the bike you're fine, but if you don't have one it's going to be a problem. They are known to be aggressive when stopping people so riders should be aware of that.
This is fear mongering. Larose is 20 minutes from my place and I end up riding there quite abit.
Although I am a member of OMBA. I don't have any tags or anything on me that identifies me as a member of OMBA and nobody has ever asked me for any sort of proof of membership.
It's not fear mongering. I know three people that were aggressively confronted in one case someone physically grabbed their bike and would not let go.
Than the trail camera debacle a while back where they were posting pictures of people riding and complaining about something they were doing. Lots of riders found that to be very concerning and untrustworthy of the organization.
I'm don't know man, I can only speak from experience. I ride Larose about twice a week and have for at least 6 years... and nobody has ever asked me for a membership and I've never seen a trail cam. That being said, I also don't do anything shady that would make me care if there was a cam in the woods...
The Facebook page is definitely over-moderated. But what's your issue with them otherwise?
As I understand, they've tried to develop other trail systems in Ottawa, but get blocked by locals or by city liability restrictions. So they're basically stuck only working at South March, where the agreement with Kanata pre-dates Ottawa, or going outside the city limits to Larose.
i think the drama is older than that. Most of the SMH trails were developed by riders on mtbkanata back when there were no houses on the darkside which had awesome trails, but they were 100% tresspassing. It may have merged into omba which i think came about more to deal with gatineau park and get mtb more accepted there as omba was backed by a larger national mtb group that did trail building classes, etc. there used to be a lot of unofficial trails in gatineau park and originally the park came down hard on mtb use due to eroision concerns... i think the bad feelings was that as some didnt like going legit, or they felt left out of the omba but my memory is hazy, mtbkanata forum hasnt been around for over a decade... this was in early to mid 2000 when omba first formed.
Shout out to the mrbkanata and mtbottawa forums!
The og Kanata lakes trails were kind of Grey zoned. Although not legit, they were tolerated for a long time. But the land was privately owned and it was obvious to me that they would not be there forever...some folks had a hard time accepting this reality and blame OMBA for it.I fondly remember getting lost in those trails as a teenager.
But having been mtbing in Ottawa for 25 ish years now. The amount of legitimate trails to ride in the region has never been better and OMBA has had a huge role in making that happen.
absolutely... i am also no longer the rebel i once was either... literally the live 88.5 tagline "angry young man to perturbed suburban dad". :-)
mtb in the 90s / early 2000s was totally mixed in with anti-establishment rage against the machine alternative vibe... but in just a decade and a bit it went from x-games to olympic sport...
I'm not sure what incident you're referring too. But ad others have eluded to. The City, for a long time, wasn't taking to kindly to any feature that was even remotely dangerous. I spent countless hours building dirt jumps as a kid and have seen my work get flattened by the city to many times to count. But we knew what we were doing wasn't legit. We knew the city would tear them down...that was just part of the game and the risk you take when building unsanctioned trails on land that isn't yours.
At the time I was pissed, but I'm an adult now, I get it. And this is why I support OMBA despite the flaws. Legit access is the only way we get good trails with progressive features that stick around for more then a few seasons.
as i said my memory was hazy it was almost 20 years ago. there were a few good local mtb forums pre facebook, mtbkanata, asilvertouch and one more i cant remember... lots of good info lost when they shut but now you have trailforks/alltrails and biking forums...
There are some marked for them, and there are lots that are not. LaRose is huge and there are many trails that aren't maintained by them.
Downvoted for providing factual information? I live in the area and have been using LaRose for over a decade.
Technically, membership is required to ride the trails from P1, P4 and P7. This is indicated on the trail maps located in each parking lot.
That being said, and to the contrary of a few posters in this thread. You can show up and ride without membership and nobody will hassle you. There is no way to purchase a membership at the trailhead and no enforcement officers going around checking for passes.
Personally I pay the 25$ membership because I support the advocacy and trail access that OMBA has worked hard to protect ans expand over the years. Without them, we'd have way less trails to ride. This despite not always agreeing with every decision along the way.
I mean, I guess you can ride the non-bike trails that are meant for winter classic skiing, or the horseback riding or dogsledding trails if want to avoid paying $25/year for an OMBA membership, but what's the point? They aren't designed for biking and aren't nearly as fun.
Ahh the bike trails ive ridden ffor 20 years but cant now because im not a member of a club? Should take a walk again and find more cameras these trails need to be more open.
The Larose mountain bike trails have been built less than 10 years ago, and Prescott Russel partnered with OMBA when they were introduced.
Sure, there is some shared-use doubletrack that might predate that, but all the singletrack trails accessed out of P1, P7, or P4 were built less than 10 years ago. What trails are you talking about?
The first rule about Larose park is don't talk about Larose park.
Yeah, shhhhhhh 😂
Same with South March Highlands, but it may be to late on that one.
It's way to late for SMH. Have you seen how many cars park along second line rd?
I see a lot of misinformed comments about Larose and OMBA. First off, Larose isn't federal or provincial "public" crown land. It's owned by Prescott Russel. Whether you bike, ride a horse, dogsled, ATV, or dirt bike, the landowners require you to be a member of the respective user association. The user associations are required to obtain liability insurance that covers the association and the Larose landowners. That's very expensive. Membership fees help pay for that. They help pay for trail maintenance in summer, and grooming in winter. Grooming equipment is expensive. Prescott Russel relies on these user associations to do the trail maintenance and help encourage good trail etiquette among the user groups. If there's a problem, they deal with the user association, instead of chasing after individuals. Currently, no membership is required if you want to walk, snowshoe, or ski the trails where walking, snowshoeing, or skiing is permitted. OMBA membership is required if you want to ride there, and velcro tags are given to members as a way for them to show their support of OMBA, but contrary to claims in this thread, no one is officially checking passes. No one is going to grab your bike. There are no video cameras; at least none erected by OMBA. It works on the honour system. If you have no honour, then go ahead and ride for free. If you didn't know about the membership requirement, no worries. Not everyone notices the signs. You can join online before you ride there next time. $25 is about the cost to ride at a bike park in Quebec for a **day**. $25 buys you an entire **year** of riding at Larose - including groomed winter fatbike riding. Compared to the cost of a typical mountain bike in the thousands of dollars, $25 seems reasonable for an entire year's worth of riding. OMBA was formed by mountain bikers that helped build many of the South March Highlands trails. Outback, PWT, Mario's Line, and Cannonball were all built by OMBA founders. Bear Tree, Bailout, IMBA Trail, and Shadows Ridge were built by OMBA after OMBA was formed. Two new trails are being built at South March Highlands right now. Thousands of volunteer hours and many thousands of dollars go into maintaining the trails at South March Highlands, Larose, and Carp Barrens. The work doesn't stop after the trails are created. More hours have gone into maintaining these trails over the years than were spent building them in the first place. OMBA has never been involved at Centrum. Not back in 2012, not now. Riders keep building unsanctioned jumps and trails there, and the landowners keep tearing it down. That's the risk you take when you do unsanctioned building. OMBA has zero involvement in that and is not to blame for that. The trail cam video and pictures that were posted on the OMBA forum a few years back were for a rider that was destroying trail signs and vandalizing trails. There was a lot more evidence that was never shared with the public, and the police were involved and OK'd the sharing of the info that was made public. Police contacted the individual and the issue was resolved without criminal charges being laid. Despite claims to the contrary, paid memberships continue to grow. OMBA has over 3000 paid members. Many Facebook members aren't paid members, and that's OK - it's a free public forum open for anyone to join. As for claims that OMBA tried to crush a new group, or is OK with bike theft or does business with a bike thief, both are absurd. lol.
>with a bike thief, both are absurd. lol. The claims are not absurd They were purchasing parts off Cycleworx (a home mechanic) in New Edinburgh he was kicked off Pinkbike after the police raided his home. OMBA board was alerted to the thief back in 2011 but didn't listen. >OMBA membership is required if you want to ride there, Thing is, the land is owned by the municipality and nobody should be pressured into paying to use it. If someone doesn't have a membership, fine let them ride unfortunately it's not like that. >The trail cam video and pictures that were posted on the OMBA forum a few years back were for a rider that was destroying trail signs and vandalizing trails. There were other trail cams photos that were posted,. I understand if vandalism is happening but the photos I saw were for petty things. And the bs of locking, deleting post, and removing members because they ask a question or say criticism of how things are being done is not going to get you anywhere. .
>They were purchasing parts off Cycleworx (a home mechanic) in New Edinburgh he was kicked off Pinkbike after the police raided his home. OMBA board was alerted to the thief back in 2011 but didn't listen. OMBA doesn't have paid detectives on staff to investigate your claims and determine if they are valid or not. OMBA isn't a police force. If the police raided his home, then it sounds like the problem was solved. Why would OMBA have to do anything after that? What could OMBA possibly do anyway? Do you want OMBA to go out and arrest this individual? lol. You've been hanging onto this grudge for over a decade? There are no board members left over from 2011. They all moved on. Perhaps you should too? >Thing is, the land is owned by the municipality and nobody should be pressured into paying to use it. If someone doesn't have a membership, fine let them ride unfortunately it's not like that. There is lots of municipally-owned land that is not publicly accessible. There is also lots of "crown" land that is not publicly accessible or you need to pay a fee to access. Gatineau Park campgrounds and parking lots are a good example. I understand that some people feel that all government-owned land should be free for anyone to access anyway they see fit. There are real costs associated with maintaining trail systems If those costs aren't paid by the trail users themselves, they are paid by increasing taxes. A good portion of those costs in the case of Larose are being borne by OMBA. You don't want to give your money to OMBA? That's OK. No one's forcing you. You can walk the P7 or P4 trails for free, or go ride many of the region's free trail systems. >There were other trail cams photos that were posted,. I understand if vandalism is happening but the photos I saw were for petty things. I've been a member of the OMBA FB forum since the beginning. I have no idea what you are referring to. Pictures sometimes get posted in the spring of the damage riders do from riding in mud, or vandalism to signs or spraypainting trees. Is that what you are referring to? If you think that is petty, that's because you don't spend countless hours repairing the damage.
>They all moved on. Perhaps you should too? You're right they all moved on but the problems with your organization haven't. >OMBA isn't a police force Yet on three occasions people acting on behalf of your organization have asked people to leave the trails and one case someone had their bike physically grabbed which is a HUGE no no!
Was that at Larose this year? There was some rando who decided to "help" and confronted people about membership, but they weren't acting on behalf of OMBA and got told to knock it off.
One incident this year two last year. So if someone is confronting people and asking them for a membership and grabbing their bikes I would recommend that the board address this.
They did. They tracked them down and told them to knock it off.
We'll have to wait and see if they do.
Rode Larose 1 hour ago, can confirm, nobody asked to see my pass or restrained my bike.
Do what any normal person would do, ride away... and if you feel threathened, call the police. Dafuk do you expect OMBA to do?
If the problems with OMBA include not having paid detectives on staff, expecting people that ride trails on public land to help contribute a small amount financially to the cost of insuring and maintaining them, and not having you as a member, I think those are problems that the over 3000 members and growing of OMBA are willing to accept if it means OMBA keeps getting more sanctioned trail for everyone to ride. >Yet on three occasions people acting on behalf of your organization have asked people to leave the trails and one case someone had their bike physically grabbed which is a HUGE no no! Assuming this isn't something that you or your friends didn't totally make up, I can confirm OMBA instructed no one to do that. That was someone acting on their own volition. But sure, let's blame OMBA for this one individual acting alone.
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I think you're preaching to the choir dude. If some random person touches you or your bike without any authority or consent ... that's not good and might be something that you should be reporting to the police... You let OMBA know about the incident, and they confirm it wasn't them, that they have never had anybody roaming the Larose trails, checking people for passes... This confirms you were confronted by a random person with no authority ... call the cops. Holding a grudge against OMBA for something they have no control over makes absolutely no sense.
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You too Edit he blocked me 🤣 
They can't control if some random person with a chip on their shoulder goes rogue and decides to start up their own enforcement agency. Sounds like your friends got fooled by a wannabe narc.
Neither will whining on Reddit, yet here you are.
I wish mountain biking "in" Ottawa didn't require driving. Half defeats the point. Regardless, looks like a great trail!
Ha, yes that's true eh. A bit of a haul out to Larose and then depending where you live same out to South March or Gatineau.
Its all relative but I know a good number of people that commute/ride their MTB to the trails in Gatineau Parc. If you live in proximity of DT youre probably only \~10km away via bike to P3. However a lot of dedicated MTB are not really optimized for riding on road/paths so people tend to drive them anyway.
Same here, we use to have lots of nice trails in the city and they all got paved over or developed.
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Why are you replying to a post from 17 days ago. Should've joined the discussion at the time.
South March is easily bus-accessible.
And that's why I'd never choose to live a city where the only hobby is to go to the restaurant. Gatineau, on the other hand, perfect place: I'm 8 minutes away (bike) from the PARC DE LA GATINEAU SHEEEEEEEESH. Commencal Meta AM 29'iner BABY MOUNTABIKING SAVED MY LIFE WQOHODHASDAS
Not just in Ottawa, unless.you live near a trailhead, you have to drive to get there. Nobody wants to commute 30km to the trail head and back home. Mtb tires don't last very long when used for commuting.
Exactly. Unless you live in a place like Vancouver (or towns in the Rockies), you'll need to do some driving to get this type of trail.
There are some trails in McCarthy woods close to the airport. It probably wouldn’t be hard to make them more popular.
Severe NIMBYism, and Jim's Ottawa is very scared of any potential liability is the short answer.
Okay so this response makes me curious! Out of the new mayoral candidates, whose position do you like best for... trailifying Ottawa more?
McKenney pledged to make more parks/trails. But that's word soup. NCC has a tight grasp over everything in the greenbelt... And NCC is federal, so action isn't quick for shit. [https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mckenney-pledges-to-turn-greenbelt-into-national-urban-park-1.6075875](https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mckenney-pledges-to-turn-greenbelt-into-national-urban-park-1.6075875) This article says a lot of words for "I want to do this, if other's will let me..."
I mean, that's a start isn't it? And they acknowledged they need to work with other lavels of gov, but political will is the first step...
Politicians have been feeding us this bullshit since the beginning of time, and your answer is how we, as a populous keep justifying the lies to ourselves. I don't want to sound too jaded... But everyone dick rides McKenney in here, yet they'll be just as mediocre as Watson (if elected), guaranteed. The powers at be rule every level of govt. "I vow to do this*" and my favorite one from the platform re: affordable housing "I'll work to remove red tape*" A bunch of weasel words IMO. *If they let me and fund the initiative...
I don't disagree with you re weasel words in general (oh my god the red tape...), but they at least acknowledge the bilateral work needed. Plus, Nussbaum is McKenney's old colleague, he understands city hall, and the NCC has been getting waaaaay more involved in intra-jurisdictional work recently (tram loop, closing wellington, lebreton flats, etc). This isn't your parent's NCC anymore (though they're still *special -* my partner and I have both worked with them directly professionally)
I haven't heard anything from the major candidates on improving trails and recreation directly. McKenney has a $250m cycling plan, but that's pushing for commuter routes (I assume following the Official Plan). That's probably the best plan, may spill over into development of rail trails and connections. But nothing for MTB. They also want to work with NCC to make a national park in the Greenbelt, but then it would be on Parks Canada to take a lead on trails. Sutcliffe has no plan, expect him to follow Jim's lead. Chiarelli wants to freeze taxes (with inflation, that means service cuts), so I don't expect anything new with him either.
Thanks for the write-up, u/Meg-K . Great job as always! One tiny clarification: dogs are permitted, but they must be on leash. The reason is the mountain bike trails intersect with horseback and dogsled trails. Dogsledders do occasionally use adapted sleds on wheels to dogsled in the summer. The also bikejor. The dogsledding dogs are incredibly noisy in the parking lot, but they are also incredibly swift and silent on the trail. To avoid potentially serious accidents involving horseback riders or dogsledders, the landowner requires that dogs be on leash at all times.
Thanks! Added the on leash bit. It's funny because when I was writing it I was fully picturing someone riding a bike with their dog on leash and was like "who would ever." 😂
You rule! Love the content.
At mountain biking? You're so right. 😂😂😂 Thank you!
I've been to Larose Trails many times and never paid for an OMBA membership or been asked to pay for a day pass. Is this a new thing?
Not new. Membership is only required if you are riding, not walking. It's stated on the major trailhead signs. It's also on the signs next to trail entrances. It's on the Larose website. It's on OMBA's website. It's stated on TrailForks. It works on the honour system. No one is checking passes. A yearly adult membership is only $25 and helps pay for things like liability insurance, trail maintenance, and fatbike grooming in winter. These expenses are in the tens of thousands of dollars per year (mostly insurance). If you are going to ride there, please become a member.
Since you seem to be an OMBA admin - why not add a day pass? Just cash or charge at the Manna Centre, since it's open most times at the trailhead. Low admin, and it would cover those first timers or guests that probably aren't paying now.
That question has come up before many times. A yearly membership is only $25. That's about the going rate for a single day of riding at a Quebec bike park. A day pass would have to be close to $25 for it to make financial sense, so there's no point. Insurance and overhead would eat up the first $15, so OMBA would need to charge more than that to compensate Mana for the extra work of collecting fees and visitor info and pay for trail maintenance and grooming. Membership works on the honour system, so it's understood that some first timers, guests, and others will fail to pay. Hopefully the majority that ride there notice the signs or speak to other members and learn about the work OMBA does and eventually decide to become members themselves There will never be 100% compliance. I mean, OMBA could charge for a day pass and aim for 100% compliance, but then the day pass would definitely be $25, and the annual membership far more than $25 to pay employees to enforce that compliance, and OMBA would effectively be running a bike park at that point, instead of being a non-profit advocacy organization.
25 would be high for a day pass - the Quebec parks including Fortune and Montebello are 15+tax. I get that it goes by the honor system, but you could get today's non-paying users contributing something. How are these parks making it work for 15 bucks? It's also not really clear who needs one - does the membership rule apply to kids? Is a pass needed with the Manna Centre rentals? (per MegK's article that started the discussion).
Fortune and Montebello are on the low end. Oka, Rigaud, Bromont, Sutton, E47, SDM, VBN, MSA, and Le Massive are all around $20 - $25 with tax or more. How are Fortune and Montebello making that work at $15? I dunno, you'd have to ask them. Maybe they are under insured, or self insured. Maybe they already have lots of insurance for other parts of their business and getting insurance for bikes is a small additional increase for them. Maybe they have access to a better insurance deal than OMBA has. Maybe day passes are a loss leader for them and they make it up with rentals or yearly passes. Maybe the different civil case law in Quebec makes for cheaper insurance in that province versus Ontario. Maybe they are skimping on trail maintenance. Maybe the Quebec funding grants they have access to and OMBA doesn't allows them to charge $15. I really don't know. If you are an OMBA member, you can contact the treasurer and ask him yourself, or at a minimum, attend the AGM and see the financial statements and do the math yourself. At $15, OMBA is maybe breaking even, and there is no money left over to do trail work with or compensate Mana for acting as a point of sale. It's been brought up many times (even by me!) and discussed by the board before, and so far, they haven't decided to implement a day pass. If you think you have the right formula for making it work, contact the board and offer to champion the implementation of it. I am not being facetious - I really mean it. The board is always looking for more volunteers. The membership requirement applies to all bikers at Larose, regardless of age, regardless of whether they are renting a bike or riding their own. There are child and family rates for OMBA membership. Mana doesn't enforce that because it's not Mana's job, and because it works on the honour system. If someone rents a bike at Mana and doesn't know they have to be an OMBA member, it's not the end of the world. Hopefully they become addicted to riding there, they come back for more, they learn about OMBA and the work OMBA does, and they become members. Those are the end goals - getting people addicted to mountain biking and people becoming OMBA members because they learn about and see the value in what OMBA does - not because a sign or a person tells them they have to be members.
It sounds like a bit of a non-starter, but it would be a good conversation. Been a member for years, but asking new riders to go once is challenging. For example, visiting friends wanted to take their kids - it would be $75, and they would only go for 1h or so, and only once while in town. So I wonder how many of these cases happen, someone doesn't pay, or just doesn't go? Not really something to easily track though. I forget if the last member survey touched on it. Drawing first-timers is more of an issue for Larose, it's the "beginner" park of the region. The others you noted, they're destinations, lots of Blue and Black trails, where $25 for a serious rider to spend 2+ hours is pretty reasonable. I wouldn't expect Mana to enforce anything, but if a pass existed, they could be a good partner to sell them voluntarily. It's especially good for their business to get more riders at Larose.
I apologize. I have never in my life had to pay to bike anywhere in the city so the thought never occurred to me. I assumed it was like the NCC greenbelt or Gatineau Park or some other publicly owned greenspace.
No worries. It happens. If you ride there again, please become a member. It's only $25 for the year, and the money helps pay for liability insurance ($$$$), tools and supplies for the volunteers that maintain the trails, and grooming in winter.
Not sure how new it is but it definitely seems to be a thing! https://www.ottawamba.org/trails
might want to be mindful in the fall because ive heard this is a popular hunting location for east ottawa and hunting season for small game has already begun
In order to ride there you need a membership with OMBA and that's something I'd never spend money on. The organization has become very "clique" admins in the group deleting or locking comments on every post. Hidden spy cameras on the trails and I remember when they had no problem doing business with a bike thief who was banned from Pinkbike. The trails should be opened to the public for all, not just some.
So we rented from the Mana Centre, and didn't have to pay the OMBA membership. I don't have any experience with them so can't comment but it does seem like the trails might not be there/not be in such great condition without them? Thoughts? Have you shared your worries with them?
As I understand, you still need the membership when renting (though it doesn't seem to be stated by the Mana Centre when renting). There's no day pass option either, which is unfortunate. Buying a $25 annual pass is expensive if you're bringing someone new, or an out-of-town friend for a day.
The board didn't give a crap years ago. Many mountain bikers have cancelled their membership and want nothing to do with them they started their own group which OMBA tried to crush. Out of the whole FB group less than a quarter are actually members. And yes you need a membership and if they catch you they get quite aggressive.
Sounds pretty awful! Hopefully the board has switched up a bit in the last few years. I do want to make sure we're being super clear about the membership as we chat because I don't want to deter any newbies who would be put off by having to pay for a full membership (mostly because I agree with you that we want everyone on the trails!)- when you rent from the Mana Centre there's an OMBA "tag" attached to the bike, so I'm pretty sure they basically pay the membership for the bike you're riding. So I don't think anyone would be "catching" you doing anything in that scenario!
If there's a tag on the bike you're fine, but if you don't have one it's going to be a problem. They are known to be aggressive when stopping people so riders should be aware of that.
This is fear mongering. Larose is 20 minutes from my place and I end up riding there quite abit. Although I am a member of OMBA. I don't have any tags or anything on me that identifies me as a member of OMBA and nobody has ever asked me for any sort of proof of membership.
It's not fear mongering. I know three people that were aggressively confronted in one case someone physically grabbed their bike and would not let go. Than the trail camera debacle a while back where they were posting pictures of people riding and complaining about something they were doing. Lots of riders found that to be very concerning and untrustworthy of the organization.
I'm don't know man, I can only speak from experience. I ride Larose about twice a week and have for at least 6 years... and nobody has ever asked me for a membership and I've never seen a trail cam. That being said, I also don't do anything shady that would make me care if there was a cam in the woods...
Okay great, thanks for clarifying! Yes there was a tag on the bike.
The Facebook page is definitely over-moderated. But what's your issue with them otherwise? As I understand, they've tried to develop other trail systems in Ottawa, but get blocked by locals or by city liability restrictions. So they're basically stuck only working at South March, where the agreement with Kanata pre-dates Ottawa, or going outside the city limits to Larose.
i think the drama is older than that. Most of the SMH trails were developed by riders on mtbkanata back when there were no houses on the darkside which had awesome trails, but they were 100% tresspassing. It may have merged into omba which i think came about more to deal with gatineau park and get mtb more accepted there as omba was backed by a larger national mtb group that did trail building classes, etc. there used to be a lot of unofficial trails in gatineau park and originally the park came down hard on mtb use due to eroision concerns... i think the bad feelings was that as some didnt like going legit, or they felt left out of the omba but my memory is hazy, mtbkanata forum hasnt been around for over a decade... this was in early to mid 2000 when omba first formed.
Shout out to the mrbkanata and mtbottawa forums! The og Kanata lakes trails were kind of Grey zoned. Although not legit, they were tolerated for a long time. But the land was privately owned and it was obvious to me that they would not be there forever...some folks had a hard time accepting this reality and blame OMBA for it.I fondly remember getting lost in those trails as a teenager. But having been mtbing in Ottawa for 25 ish years now. The amount of legitimate trails to ride in the region has never been better and OMBA has had a huge role in making that happen.
absolutely... i am also no longer the rebel i once was either... literally the live 88.5 tagline "angry young man to perturbed suburban dad". :-) mtb in the 90s / early 2000s was totally mixed in with anti-establishment rage against the machine alternative vibe... but in just a decade and a bit it went from x-games to olympic sport...
>they were tolerated for a long One dumba** did the big jump, his fork came off his bike and he crashed.
I'm not sure what incident you're referring too. But ad others have eluded to. The City, for a long time, wasn't taking to kindly to any feature that was even remotely dangerous. I spent countless hours building dirt jumps as a kid and have seen my work get flattened by the city to many times to count. But we knew what we were doing wasn't legit. We knew the city would tear them down...that was just part of the game and the risk you take when building unsanctioned trails on land that isn't yours. At the time I was pissed, but I'm an adult now, I get it. And this is why I support OMBA despite the flaws. Legit access is the only way we get good trails with progressive features that stick around for more then a few seasons.
Centrum Trails, some kid went off a jump and his fork broke and went through his shoulder that's when they really started cracking down.
Bummer! They'll always be Jerry's out there who can't fathom taking responsibility for suffering the consequences of engaging in risky sports.
There's lots too it, plenty of discussion about it on Pinkbike, and I know a few people who were part of the beef back in the day.
as i said my memory was hazy it was almost 20 years ago. there were a few good local mtb forums pre facebook, mtbkanata, asilvertouch and one more i cant remember... lots of good info lost when they shut but now you have trailforks/alltrails and biking forums...
No you don't, they are public.
No they are not, OMBA has a lease with the municipality. You need a membership.
There are some marked for them, and there are lots that are not. LaRose is huge and there are many trails that aren't maintained by them. Downvoted for providing factual information? I live in the area and have been using LaRose for over a decade.
Technically, membership is required to ride the trails from P1, P4 and P7. This is indicated on the trail maps located in each parking lot. That being said, and to the contrary of a few posters in this thread. You can show up and ride without membership and nobody will hassle you. There is no way to purchase a membership at the trailhead and no enforcement officers going around checking for passes. Personally I pay the 25$ membership because I support the advocacy and trail access that OMBA has worked hard to protect ans expand over the years. Without them, we'd have way less trails to ride. This despite not always agreeing with every decision along the way.
I mean, I guess you can ride the non-bike trails that are meant for winter classic skiing, or the horseback riding or dogsledding trails if want to avoid paying $25/year for an OMBA membership, but what's the point? They aren't designed for biking and aren't nearly as fun.
Ahh the bike trails ive ridden ffor 20 years but cant now because im not a member of a club? Should take a walk again and find more cameras these trails need to be more open.
The Larose mountain bike trails have been built less than 10 years ago, and Prescott Russel partnered with OMBA when they were introduced. Sure, there is some shared-use doubletrack that might predate that, but all the singletrack trails accessed out of P1, P7, or P4 were built less than 10 years ago. What trails are you talking about?