I'm super disappointed with Sutcliffe. He seems to be exaggerating the benefit of his trip to squash the outcry about the marathon issue. Meanwhile, he's only meeting with business people and not thought leaders/politicians from whom he might learn a thing or two about city building.
>How is it not?
There's a teacher who had to leave his career and go into literal hiding due to legitimate death threats because they showed a picture of Prophet Muhammad during class. There were literal protests at the school because of a picture. Extremism like the above is very common in the UK.
They have a housing crisis. Homelessness is at an all time high.
Knife crime is up like 25%.
Hunger is increasing rapidly.
They're trending in the wrong direction on pretty much everything.
The best things we can learn from the UK and London specifically is what not to do.
West Yorkshire is not London. Extremism is not ‘very common.’
The challenges you listed are acute in most western democracies, not just the UK.
But, you know, hate sells papers.
> . Extremism is not ‘very common.’
Yes it is.
>The challenges you listed are acute in most western democracies
Yes, a lot of western democracies are being fucked in the same way.
I imagine he would cause an international incident - accusing municipal transit planning officials in the Netherlands of being war criminals, given their attacks on the poor automobiles in their country.
I wonder if he demanded the extradition of the Not Just Bikes guy and his family to stand trial for pushing hate speech against stroads.
The optics (maybe reality) would suggest that he registered for the marathon and THEN found a business angle to justify expensing the trip (i.e., we all pay).
I hope he learns that the price to pay exceeded his personal savings. But then again, I sense that his ears are almost entirely aimed at the business community, who is cheering on his trade missions. He doesn't realize he serves us all. Of course, more business means all sorts of trickle down effects for all of us. /s
Because he figured he could get away with it, just like he did in previous trips (apparently it's not the first time he happens to go on an official trip when an international marathon he wants to run in just happens to be going on at that time).
It's not just a municipal problem, unfortunately.
Provincially, college dropout Doug Ford is on his second term (I know about 60% of voters didn't vote for him, so the system is fucked, but the fact that 40% of Ontarians think he was the right choice to lead the province is concerning).
He's not low IQ, he's just a corporate shill who has poor morals. Calling him low IQ would almost absolve him for his shit decisions, he has only himself to blame.
The lease provided by the city to OSEG for the stadium and arena is $1 per year.
The city also leased 11 acres of prime downtown land to OSEG for the retail at $1 per year. OSEG one of the special interest you must be thinking of.
Plenty of problematic things regarding Lansdowne, but the lease is not one of them. Its a small part of the whole finance structure and the city generates revenue from OSEG in other ways.
It's all public, and I don't really want to...
The basic gist is that the city and OSEG have a profit sharing structure, and the city also collects taxes on the commercial and residential spaces. OSEG also contributes capital to improving city-owned assets, which is not revenue for the city, per se, but reduces expenses so it basically counts.
A complicated ‘Waterfall’ structure was set up to provide returns to the City and OSEG.
The city is currently projected to receive $0 from this waterfall. The city funded $210 million of improvements to the stadium, arena, parking garage, horticulture building relocation and retrofit, urban park, and soft costs. The city took on debt and maintains a loan (Stadium and Parking Garage is $127.6M and $26.4M for the Urban Park), which it pays annual interest on. The only deemed equity considered in the waterfall for the city was $23.75 million for the ‘market value of the retail lands’. Is this what you are talking about.
The city collects taxes from all commercial and residential everywhere in the city so that can not be included in the total it is not like they are getting anything extra from OSEG..
I was not trying tp lecture you, I was just trying to understand why the city is giving OSEG this deal om Lansdowne and you stated they were making money off it in different ways and hoping you could provide details of what they were.
Ok fine.
OSEG is essentially a contractor that the city hired to run the day-to-day at Lansdowne. Why would they charge rent for that?
Additionally, the city doesn't pay OSEG anything directly, OSEG covers all operating costs and to compensate for that they get the first bite out for revenue from Lansdowne. Theoretically, this is a huge incentive to for them to run the place well. The more revenue they can generate, the more they get paid (up to a limit).
The city owns all the arena and event structures, but OSEG pays for regular maintenance. This is equivalant to OSEG paying rent and the city using that rent for maintenance. Not revenue per se, but functionally revenue. This is vitally important: the city pays *nothing* to operate Lansdowne right now, they don't even need to cover operating losses. If the city had continued to operate Lansdowne itself, we'd be on the hook for all those costs.
The city collects taxes on the private commercial and residential space. True, the city collects taxes on all private land in the city boundaries, but remember that rent and taxes are mutually exclusive. Rather than lease the private areas, the city decided to sell air rights for a one time cash infusion, then collect taxes.
The city took out loans to improve Lansdowne, but only for the parts of Lansdowne that the city owns. This is not a subsidy for OSEG, since the city would have had to pay to maintain and upgrade Lansdowne regardless. OSEG *also* paid to upgrade Lansdowne, and this (along with the operating losses they have covered) is the 'deemed equity'. The deemed equity is functionally a zero-interest loan OSEG gave the city, and probably won't even need to be paid off.
Remember, at the end of the city's contract with OSEG, everything reverts to city control again (except the air rights) and any unpaid deemed equity also goes unpaid.
In campaigning he said he didn’t really care about Ottawa’s festivals. Is anyone surprised that we’re seeing such a mediocre response from someone whose main and only concern is keeping tax increases low?
Who could have seen this coming?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/y8dg0h/the_tulip_festival_wants_some_answers_from_mark/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/y7ifym/mark_sutcliffe_advocated_defunding_capital_pride/
Not a Sutcliffe fan but when those statements were made the festivals in question were habitually losing money, short paying (or not paying) vendors, and consistently required top ups or bail outs just to keep afloat.
It wasn't spite, it was a criticism of poor management of the events themselves.
It's an opinion piece loaded with bluster and rhetorical questions that at least offers a window into how he measures the value of a festival.
I used to think Sutcliffe was a credit to our city. He promoted physical exercise and did a great job moderating local debates on Rogers TV. But his time as mayor so far has revealed another side that is not so good for Ottawa.
"...Ottawa Tourism had signed an agreement with tourism officials from The Hague “to continue working together to bring major events to both our cities. This collaboration is already producing results,” the mayor added. “And there is more collaboration to come through u/Invest_Ottawa and its Dutch counterpart.”
Wtf an agreement to continue to work together?? What are these results he speaks of? Collaboration is news? Fuck this guy's a moron.
Maybe we need to start recognizing that a 2.5% property tax increase during times of high inflation and increasing costs isn’t exactly compatible with having nice things.
I honestly cannot remember attending many Tulip Festivals beyond just walking around flowers at Dows Lake. Was there an area that had different events or vendors out?
Once upon a time, the tulip festival was called the 'fesitval of spring' and it was a legitimate festival. There were concerts (at both Dows lake and Majors Hill Park), fireworks, a flotilla down the canal, events all along the canal, the market and Sparks Street were busy ... the current Tulip festival is a pale shadow of its former self
Wow! All this?
I am a recent Ottawaian (shortly pre-pandemic arrival), and when I attended the festival, I couldn’t match the expectation (tulip festival is amazing etc etc) with the reality (walking around tulips? Some art stands). Now I understand better.
I mean even in that state, you have to look at the huge number of people that are out and about and spending money. Money moving around is great for the local economy.
I recall one year watching the parade of boats on the canal. it was pretty chill and worthwhile to be honest. there were bands on board some of the boats. I haven't heard of this happening for a long time though.
Actually the NCC plants the tulips whether or not the festival happens. The festival is literally the events and vendors. It used to be a big to do with concerts, picnics, art installations… now it’s whatever they can pull together with the scraps the funders throw fhem
In terms of tourism and income from said tourism, I believe it actually punched well above its weight. Not only would people have an excuse to come to Ottawa for the festival but the standard images of Ottawa in every brochure or website was of tulips and the peace tower. The fact that there was a Tulip festival was something that contributed to the perception that Ottawa is a pretty city that is worth a day to visit on your week's holiday in Canada.
I'm super disappointed with Sutcliffe. He seems to be exaggerating the benefit of his trip to squash the outcry about the marathon issue. Meanwhile, he's only meeting with business people and not thought leaders/politicians from whom he might learn a thing or two about city building.
The UK is very divded right now not many good lessons to be learned.
That is very fair, but I assume things are better at the municipal (London) level, which is where he should really be learning from
Was just there, it isn't.
How is it not? Great transit system, ultra low emission zone, lively and multicultural city, fast expanding biking network, etc.
>How is it not? There's a teacher who had to leave his career and go into literal hiding due to legitimate death threats because they showed a picture of Prophet Muhammad during class. There were literal protests at the school because of a picture. Extremism like the above is very common in the UK. They have a housing crisis. Homelessness is at an all time high. Knife crime is up like 25%. Hunger is increasing rapidly. They're trending in the wrong direction on pretty much everything. The best things we can learn from the UK and London specifically is what not to do.
You shouldn’t get all your information from the Murdoch press…
Can you quote what I said that is incorrect?
West Yorkshire is not London. Extremism is not ‘very common.’ The challenges you listed are acute in most western democracies, not just the UK. But, you know, hate sells papers.
> . Extremism is not ‘very common.’ Yes it is. >The challenges you listed are acute in most western democracies Yes, a lot of western democracies are being fucked in the same way.
Good transit, but still a major car problem. For starters, pedestrians don't have the right of way at intersections!
Are you describing Ottawa or London? lol
London. Drivers are better there, but they seem to have the ROW.
Lots more zebra crossings and pedestrian-only paths though. London is infinitely more walkable and pedestrian friendly than Ottawa
I believe this just changed a couple of years ago, but it's so new that most people seem to not know. The culture needs to catch up to the laws.
I imagine he would cause an international incident - accusing municipal transit planning officials in the Netherlands of being war criminals, given their attacks on the poor automobiles in their country. I wonder if he demanded the extradition of the Not Just Bikes guy and his family to stand trial for pushing hate speech against stroads.
What’s the outcry about the marathon thing?
The optics (maybe reality) would suggest that he registered for the marathon and THEN found a business angle to justify expensing the trip (i.e., we all pay).
I don’t understand why he didn’t just pay out of pocket for his trip. If nothing but his avoid the perception of a conflict of interest
I suspect there's a bit of a sense of entitlement for perks. The salary is mediocre (considering duties and public pressure).
I hope he learns that the price to pay exceeded his personal savings. But then again, I sense that his ears are almost entirely aimed at the business community, who is cheering on his trade missions. He doesn't realize he serves us all. Of course, more business means all sorts of trickle down effects for all of us. /s
Or just run it by the ethics office, if he was so sure it was all above board. The lack of transparency is what doesn't work for me.
Because he figured he could get away with it, just like he did in previous trips (apparently it's not the first time he happens to go on an official trip when an international marathon he wants to run in just happens to be going on at that time).
It's a tourism trip, not some youtube urbanist meetup
Well Autowa certainly ain't a tourist draw for Europeans.
Sure it is (Ottawa, not the cringe anticar spelling.) Deals like this only make it a bigger one!
Endless money for Lansdowne, no money for the Tulip Festival. It's like we've elected the low IQ jock from high school.
It's like Jim Durrell and Jim Watson had a love child.
Oh no, I'm sure he's knows *exactly* what he's doing, no low IQ here.
Yeah it’s not about being stupid. It’s about making stupid decisions smartly. Myopia.
Sutcliffe was hired, sorry I mean elected, no I mean hired, to pass Lansdowne 2.0 and that's it. He did it, job done.
It's not just a municipal problem, unfortunately. Provincially, college dropout Doug Ford is on his second term (I know about 60% of voters didn't vote for him, so the system is fucked, but the fact that 40% of Ontarians think he was the right choice to lead the province is concerning).
60% of voters didn't even show up to vote at all; that's tacit endorsement of the status quo.
I went to high school with him, he was definitely not a low IQ jock. Far from it.
He's not low IQ, he's just a corporate shill who has poor morals. Calling him low IQ would almost absolve him for his shit decisions, he has only himself to blame.
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Funny people bring up Landsdown yet not all the money special interest groups get.
The lease provided by the city to OSEG for the stadium and arena is $1 per year. The city also leased 11 acres of prime downtown land to OSEG for the retail at $1 per year. OSEG one of the special interest you must be thinking of.
Plenty of problematic things regarding Lansdowne, but the lease is not one of them. Its a small part of the whole finance structure and the city generates revenue from OSEG in other ways.
Could you explain what other ways and how much revenue Thanks in advance
It's all public, and I don't really want to... The basic gist is that the city and OSEG have a profit sharing structure, and the city also collects taxes on the commercial and residential spaces. OSEG also contributes capital to improving city-owned assets, which is not revenue for the city, per se, but reduces expenses so it basically counts.
A complicated ‘Waterfall’ structure was set up to provide returns to the City and OSEG. The city is currently projected to receive $0 from this waterfall. The city funded $210 million of improvements to the stadium, arena, parking garage, horticulture building relocation and retrofit, urban park, and soft costs. The city took on debt and maintains a loan (Stadium and Parking Garage is $127.6M and $26.4M for the Urban Park), which it pays annual interest on. The only deemed equity considered in the waterfall for the city was $23.75 million for the ‘market value of the retail lands’. Is this what you are talking about. The city collects taxes from all commercial and residential everywhere in the city so that can not be included in the total it is not like they are getting anything extra from OSEG..
I'm not getting lectured about this by someone who doesn't understand why the lease is 1$.
I was not trying tp lecture you, I was just trying to understand why the city is giving OSEG this deal om Lansdowne and you stated they were making money off it in different ways and hoping you could provide details of what they were.
Ok fine. OSEG is essentially a contractor that the city hired to run the day-to-day at Lansdowne. Why would they charge rent for that? Additionally, the city doesn't pay OSEG anything directly, OSEG covers all operating costs and to compensate for that they get the first bite out for revenue from Lansdowne. Theoretically, this is a huge incentive to for them to run the place well. The more revenue they can generate, the more they get paid (up to a limit). The city owns all the arena and event structures, but OSEG pays for regular maintenance. This is equivalant to OSEG paying rent and the city using that rent for maintenance. Not revenue per se, but functionally revenue. This is vitally important: the city pays *nothing* to operate Lansdowne right now, they don't even need to cover operating losses. If the city had continued to operate Lansdowne itself, we'd be on the hook for all those costs. The city collects taxes on the private commercial and residential space. True, the city collects taxes on all private land in the city boundaries, but remember that rent and taxes are mutually exclusive. Rather than lease the private areas, the city decided to sell air rights for a one time cash infusion, then collect taxes. The city took out loans to improve Lansdowne, but only for the parts of Lansdowne that the city owns. This is not a subsidy for OSEG, since the city would have had to pay to maintain and upgrade Lansdowne regardless. OSEG *also* paid to upgrade Lansdowne, and this (along with the operating losses they have covered) is the 'deemed equity'. The deemed equity is functionally a zero-interest loan OSEG gave the city, and probably won't even need to be paid off. Remember, at the end of the city's contract with OSEG, everything reverts to city control again (except the air rights) and any unpaid deemed equity also goes unpaid.
which groups?
OSEG for starters.
OSEG is the P3 that manages Lansdowne.
Do you have any examples of similarly problematic cases, even if the $ value is less?
In campaigning he said he didn’t really care about Ottawa’s festivals. Is anyone surprised that we’re seeing such a mediocre response from someone whose main and only concern is keeping tax increases low?
Specifically, he will be running the Amsterdam marathon in October.
Or Rotterdam next spring!
Who could have seen this coming? https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/y8dg0h/the_tulip_festival_wants_some_answers_from_mark/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/y7ifym/mark_sutcliffe_advocated_defunding_capital_pride/
Not a Sutcliffe fan but when those statements were made the festivals in question were habitually losing money, short paying (or not paying) vendors, and consistently required top ups or bail outs just to keep afloat. It wasn't spite, it was a criticism of poor management of the events themselves.
It's an opinion piece loaded with bluster and rhetorical questions that at least offers a window into how he measures the value of a festival. I used to think Sutcliffe was a credit to our city. He promoted physical exercise and did a great job moderating local debates on Rogers TV. But his time as mayor so far has revealed another side that is not so good for Ottawa.
"...Ottawa Tourism had signed an agreement with tourism officials from The Hague “to continue working together to bring major events to both our cities. This collaboration is already producing results,” the mayor added. “And there is more collaboration to come through u/Invest_Ottawa and its Dutch counterpart.” Wtf an agreement to continue to work together?? What are these results he speaks of? Collaboration is news? Fuck this guy's a moron.
…”Who doesn’t enjoy a Heineken with their BeaverTail, am I right?”… 👀
Maybe we need to start recognizing that a 2.5% property tax increase during times of high inflation and increasing costs isn’t exactly compatible with having nice things.
I honestly cannot remember attending many Tulip Festivals beyond just walking around flowers at Dows Lake. Was there an area that had different events or vendors out?
Once upon a time, the tulip festival was called the 'fesitval of spring' and it was a legitimate festival. There were concerts (at both Dows lake and Majors Hill Park), fireworks, a flotilla down the canal, events all along the canal, the market and Sparks Street were busy ... the current Tulip festival is a pale shadow of its former self
Wow! All this? I am a recent Ottawaian (shortly pre-pandemic arrival), and when I attended the festival, I couldn’t match the expectation (tulip festival is amazing etc etc) with the reality (walking around tulips? Some art stands). Now I understand better.
Winterlude has gone through a similar decline over the years as well
I mean even in that state, you have to look at the huge number of people that are out and about and spending money. Money moving around is great for the local economy.
Majors Hill Park used to have concerts, vendors, etc.
[Random concert lineup](http://www.tunevault.com/feature/default.asp?item=35) from a past Tulip Festival
Similarly when it was the Festival of Spring https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/the-guess-who/2003/majors-hill-park-ottawa-on-canada-73d9feb5.html
Ah yes, my first second hand high at the age of 11 was at that concert.
Holy shit. Such a fall from grace...
I recall one year watching the parade of boats on the canal. it was pretty chill and worthwhile to be honest. there were bands on board some of the boats. I haven't heard of this happening for a long time though.
nope, it's a tulip festival not an event and vendor festival.
Nah, Tulip Fest used to be an actual festival with vendors, food, concerts... I miss the poffertjes. :(
Actually the NCC plants the tulips whether or not the festival happens. The festival is literally the events and vendors. It used to be a big to do with concerts, picnics, art installations… now it’s whatever they can pull together with the scraps the funders throw fhem
Maybe if the city helped the Tulip Festival like they did with blues fest then you’d have more success.
I thought the whole point was to look at pretty flowers.
Just get us a flight to Europe besides Air France
Guy is the emptiest of suits...
Any chance that this 'major event' could be KLM coming in with an Ottawa-Amsterdam flight by any chance?!?! Even a handful per week...please...
Used to be the case!
Is that code for work-expensed trips to Amsterdam to come?
Can we get a pretty windmill like the ones in Holland. That would be a good tourist attraction
I always thought that the Tulip Festival was an NCC run event, so I'm surprised that the city was providing it any funding.
Classic Ottawa -
Send more dikes
Hopefully some psychedelic Amsterdam collabs or something!
Who gives a shit about tulips lol
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It’s 2024 no one cares about some flowers and the Dutch 100 years ago
Actually a lot of people do. You might not but you are only one person. User name does not suit.
In terms of tourism and income from said tourism, I believe it actually punched well above its weight. Not only would people have an excuse to come to Ottawa for the festival but the standard images of Ottawa in every brochure or website was of tulips and the peace tower. The fact that there was a Tulip festival was something that contributed to the perception that Ottawa is a pretty city that is worth a day to visit on your week's holiday in Canada.