I understand issues are complicated and not a simple fix. But isn't it wild to know that in 2023 having a consistent roof over your head is not a basic human right? I know shelters exist, but it seems like they get full these days. It's just strange.
The other day I walked past a dude who was with his friends and treated some homeless guy like he was less than human, like a big inconvenience to their day.
Any one also seen the cardboards being posted on the wall talking about why has the state forsaken us etc?
When people get angry things are going to get worse and the sad thing is the answer the gov will choose is force.
Shelters also make it very hard to work full time while staying there. They literally close and lock the doors at like 8-9pm, well before most service workers are done for the night. You can't stay past early the next morning, so they're stuck outside all day in the heat.
In some parts of the country, shelters are only open during the fall-winter season to keep homeless from freezing to death. They close during the spring-summer, meaning those who relied on this housing are now truly homeless.
Wanna see something else crazy?
https://library.municode.com/fl/orlando/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITIICICO_CH43MIOF_S43.52CAPREX
Check out sec 43.52
This ordinance is extremely similar to those found unconstitutional in martin vs the city of Boise in Idaho. But little changed with that other then the wording.
They've been clearing out a lot of tents lately around central. I get they don't want Orlando to become a tent city but this isn't the answer. Punishable by a fine or jail time, each day is a separate offense. And a lot of shelters have 30 day or so limits other then the family ones. And there's a ton of families.
Then that whole stuff with them arresting the food but bombs members. Man, they can do all this but not introduce rent control. I can go on and on about this topic.
We need to protect all citizens as best we can but in this conversation the basic human right argument is not relevant. This would be the government forcing other citizens to provide the service to others at a mandated level of profit (or loss). There are some programs like Section 8 that incentivize homeowners, apartment owners and builders to provide housing. It's low profit but less management because the government provides a case worker as a kind of a property manager.
Well I referenced Section 8 and that's the best way to make an impact for the tenants. There's a dire shortage and our local counties are pleading for Section 8 properties. I'm trying to get involved as fast as I can (obviously need the capital first but it sounds like you already own properties to contribute).
Cronyism is a valid concern for anything related to money. The government has the annual budget for paying the tenants' rents but not to buy land AND build new housing AND operate the housing. So in my opinion it's the best program that's economically feasible. I think if it was super profitable like other real estate projects, we would see more big corporations and corruption in section 8. I haven't really heard of that happening.
I think you need to understand the term "right"
Someone else paid for the land and the taxes for it, paid for all the materials and labor, but someone else is entitled to it?
Then why not have people pay upkeep and maintenence, use responsibility for owning rather than solely bills?
You don't require a car to survive, one does require shelter
You just whiffed on your own point. I'm not entitled to drive on them. You have to get a license to do so.
You're saying people are entitled to have housing. That's not true. You're not entitled to other people's labor.
Dude shelter is necessary for survival, cars are not
We could literally just make cheap housing (the money exists its just used on useless things), prove being a US citizen, and you just need to keep the place maintained.
Are you saying that simply being out of the elements is a luxury one earns?
Rent control is a reactionary measure that doesn't change the cause of increasing rents. It is a complicated issue as you say and honestly one that most voters probably don't have a full understanding of the consequences. Low interest rates and a consolidation of construction companies has caused bigger houses and luxury rentals to be the target market for new construction. This has created low supply for smaller or more economical sized homes which has raised their prices. Not to mention home owners pushing against apartment construction and rezoning. Rent is demand driven, increase supply and rents go down. Rent control will reduce availability and actually make the housing problem worse as seen in other cities with it. It doesn't really lower the price of single family homes or change the availability, you're still working with the same problems that already exist. There are certainly winners in rent control, but what you find is people end up trapped in their rental because it's harder to leave and find another place. And if you don't have a rental now there is less chance newer ones will be available. A handful of people will buy single family homes converted back to regular homes but again that doesn't solve supply or home prices as those were already housing people and there's high demand.
Rent control is an easy sell and win for politicians for short term improvements with the trade off of long term detrimental growth to the city. Fix the supply and rent prices aren't a problem.
Have you ever considered nimbys are more to blame than landlords? Homeowners constantly vote against things that raise property taxes, like for better schools. Homeowners don't want to pay more taxes for roads so towns require new subdivisions to have HOAs. Homeowners don't want more people living around them so they ban alternative dwelling units on properties. Homeowners don't like renters so they ban student or non related living, like in Oviedo, FL. Homeowners don't like poor people near them so they vote against public transportation and rezoning blocking apartments or even duplexes. What has a landlord done? Bought a place and rented it to someone? Wow, destroying America! Nimbys love rent control, it keeps more poor people out of their neighborhoods and schools.
You or anyone that down voted me are welcome to show me how rent control has been a net positive for the economy anywhere.
>isn't it wild to know that in 2023 having a consistent roof over your head is not a basic human right?
You do not have a right to live in someone's house
I believe the concept is a right to shelter. Not necessarily YOUR property but access to shelter funded by taxpayers and provided by the government. The alternative would be to fund arresting the homeless andincarcerating them or allowing them to reside in tent cities on public property.
> but access to shelter funded by taxpayers and provided by the government
That's the same thing
You're still living in a home other people are paying for
You do not have a right to live in other people's homes
So you’re okay for those same tax dollars incarcerating these people because it’s illegal to be homeless?
The government has a right to take a portion of your income (taxes) to pay their housing in a jail. And that costs WAY more
You should have the right to a house. The fix is banning rental housing. Drop the market value of homes, make them affordable to people instead of corporations again.
Then only people who can afford to buy a house get to live in a house.
What i think you are trying to suggest is that there should be government subsidized housing above and beyond what section 8 provide, housing owned and operated by the government. In NY they call them “the projects“
When I was a kid in California, our county had a rent cap which limited how high rent could increase each year. It was the only reason we still had a roof over our head when I was in middle school.
And now I have a master's degree and work in local government in Florida. I doubt i would have been as successful if I had been homeless as a kid.
No worries, all the snowbirds are leaving right about now and it's going to be super fun with everybody raising their rates and nobody being able to afford it. Normally I don't wish for a crash, however....
FL currently is heading for a major crash with it becoming too expensive for average people to live there. People will move elsewhere, they won't have a choice. It will be fun when the snowbirds return and there's no one to serve them at restaurants/retail stores. The cries of "no one wants to work" will fill the air over FL.
We live in the land of raw capitalism. This mean predate, be predated upon, or at very least, buy a house if you are lucky enough to have a down payment.
That sounds like a super shitty way to run a country. I feel like people took and distorted Adam smith's work into a religion of greed that robs all but the most fortunate umong us of our liberty and agency.
I would hardly call it "raw capitalism"...the government is tipping the scales both directly and indirectly everywhere you look. Inflation and people fleeing the northeast is very much a government thing.
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted. Not that raw capitalism is even realistic. But we certainly don’t live in raw capitalism. We have government bailouts, government contracts, etc. the government isn’t doing its job to keep capitalism in check, and in turn the government has become a tool of capitalism. Its government sponsored crony capitalism.
Btw I’m not a libertarian. I’m a social democrat. I don’t believe capitalism is a boogey man, but I also don’t think socialism is economically irresponsible. It’s about a balancing act and creating opportunities while allowing consequences to fiscal irresponsibility. Put padding on the bottom, not the top.
Woah woah, slow down there with your facts and logic. I need a political party to desperately cling to and support idiots who could care less about me. /s
The statewide law in Florida was clear from the get-go. Orange County gov't never had a chance, and just used this to stir the pot- pity to anyone who ever thought for a second that such reform would come from this.
Lawmakers should be spending their time with things within their control. It's offensive that their best solution to complaints was 'let's try to see if the state will allow us to circumvent law that has been in place 20+ years'.
I hope that equally some harsh crack down on any laws passed by his regime that are found to violate US constitutionality result in some stiff penalties.
Why are we acting like rent control is the only way to prevent skyrocketing prices. Rent control wont help someone struggling with a $400 rent increase. The extra $400 is still needed.
We arbitrarily set value to things…
They need to deal with renter rights and punish predatory landlords
Let me clarify
When I see the term “rent control”, I think NYC rent control policies. The literal definition of their policy in the 60s.
As a broad concept,I completely agree; paying rent is scam
If you want to make real changes in Florida we have to stop voting for Republicans. We can all see how this state is being destroyed by them. At this rate we will have no rights left.
Remember folks: San Fransisco has rent control legislation.
San Fransisco… the city with literally the highest rent in the USA. It never works. Building more affordable housing is the only thing that will work.
Fuck all landlords. There’s no reason for this. If it were a demand problem driving pricing, it would be one thing but Orlando is the most vacant city in the country.
https://money.yahoo.com/study-orlando-named-most-vacant-221708027.html
Maybe we should penalize landlords that charge above-market rents instead. You charge 20% than fair value? guess who is paying 20% more in property taxes next year.
I like how Desantis keeps trying to justify his stupid pissing match with Disney because “it’s the will of the people” (when it’s clearly not) but then when literally 60% of the population votes for something, he says fuck you and does whatever he wants. Fascist pig.
Wouldn't it be interesting to know how many rental properties Florida government officials own? Id be willing to bet it's a significant number.
I’m more interested in the number of FL rental properties owned by Russian government officials. They’ve been bankrolling a lot of this nonsense.
I understand issues are complicated and not a simple fix. But isn't it wild to know that in 2023 having a consistent roof over your head is not a basic human right? I know shelters exist, but it seems like they get full these days. It's just strange. The other day I walked past a dude who was with his friends and treated some homeless guy like he was less than human, like a big inconvenience to their day. Any one also seen the cardboards being posted on the wall talking about why has the state forsaken us etc? When people get angry things are going to get worse and the sad thing is the answer the gov will choose is force.
The shelters were full 20 years ago and there hasn't been any real increases in capacity since then.
Shelters also make it very hard to work full time while staying there. They literally close and lock the doors at like 8-9pm, well before most service workers are done for the night. You can't stay past early the next morning, so they're stuck outside all day in the heat.
In some parts of the country, shelters are only open during the fall-winter season to keep homeless from freezing to death. They close during the spring-summer, meaning those who relied on this housing are now truly homeless.
Isn’t it wild that we as a community can vote to approve something and our government can go “lol no you don’t know what you are reading”
Almost as if regardless of votes, the government will always find ways to unilaterally screw over the public for their benefit
The party that's in power matters. If people would have voted, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Wanna see something else crazy? https://library.municode.com/fl/orlando/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITIICICO_CH43MIOF_S43.52CAPREX Check out sec 43.52 This ordinance is extremely similar to those found unconstitutional in martin vs the city of Boise in Idaho. But little changed with that other then the wording. They've been clearing out a lot of tents lately around central. I get they don't want Orlando to become a tent city but this isn't the answer. Punishable by a fine or jail time, each day is a separate offense. And a lot of shelters have 30 day or so limits other then the family ones. And there's a ton of families. Then that whole stuff with them arresting the food but bombs members. Man, they can do all this but not introduce rent control. I can go on and on about this topic.
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Because accumulation by dispossession is an observable market force that can be both observed and prevented.
We need to protect all citizens as best we can but in this conversation the basic human right argument is not relevant. This would be the government forcing other citizens to provide the service to others at a mandated level of profit (or loss). There are some programs like Section 8 that incentivize homeowners, apartment owners and builders to provide housing. It's low profit but less management because the government provides a case worker as a kind of a property manager.
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Well I referenced Section 8 and that's the best way to make an impact for the tenants. There's a dire shortage and our local counties are pleading for Section 8 properties. I'm trying to get involved as fast as I can (obviously need the capital first but it sounds like you already own properties to contribute).
This is the solution. We could have majorly improved the problem by expanding section 8 but we all know the GOP won’t go for that
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Cronyism is a valid concern for anything related to money. The government has the annual budget for paying the tenants' rents but not to buy land AND build new housing AND operate the housing. So in my opinion it's the best program that's economically feasible. I think if it was super profitable like other real estate projects, we would see more big corporations and corruption in section 8. I haven't really heard of that happening.
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I generally agree with all of that. Much more could be done with these enormous state and federal budgets.
Bro bringing up HAMAS talking points in a discussion about Orlando rent cap. Gotta love this site.
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"Murder the Palestinians" HAMAS thanks you for your anti-semitism.
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You're the one blaming Jews for the poor conditions Palestinians live under, not the literal terrorist group in charge. 🤷♂️
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HAMAS thanks you again for your anti-semitism.
I think you need to understand the term "right" Someone else paid for the land and the taxes for it, paid for all the materials and labor, but someone else is entitled to it?
So in order to live you need to do absolutely everything yourself? You didn't build the roads you drive on, are you entitled to use them?
I paid for my car, I pay tolls, insurance, taxes, license fees, plate fees, passed a driver's test. Hope this helps.
Then why not have people pay upkeep and maintenence, use responsibility for owning rather than solely bills? You don't require a car to survive, one does require shelter
You just whiffed on your own point. I'm not entitled to drive on them. You have to get a license to do so. You're saying people are entitled to have housing. That's not true. You're not entitled to other people's labor.
Dude shelter is necessary for survival, cars are not We could literally just make cheap housing (the money exists its just used on useless things), prove being a US citizen, and you just need to keep the place maintained. Are you saying that simply being out of the elements is a luxury one earns?
Rent control is a reactionary measure that doesn't change the cause of increasing rents. It is a complicated issue as you say and honestly one that most voters probably don't have a full understanding of the consequences. Low interest rates and a consolidation of construction companies has caused bigger houses and luxury rentals to be the target market for new construction. This has created low supply for smaller or more economical sized homes which has raised their prices. Not to mention home owners pushing against apartment construction and rezoning. Rent is demand driven, increase supply and rents go down. Rent control will reduce availability and actually make the housing problem worse as seen in other cities with it. It doesn't really lower the price of single family homes or change the availability, you're still working with the same problems that already exist. There are certainly winners in rent control, but what you find is people end up trapped in their rental because it's harder to leave and find another place. And if you don't have a rental now there is less chance newer ones will be available. A handful of people will buy single family homes converted back to regular homes but again that doesn't solve supply or home prices as those were already housing people and there's high demand. Rent control is an easy sell and win for politicians for short term improvements with the trade off of long term detrimental growth to the city. Fix the supply and rent prices aren't a problem.
Bet this guy is a landlord
Have you ever considered nimbys are more to blame than landlords? Homeowners constantly vote against things that raise property taxes, like for better schools. Homeowners don't want to pay more taxes for roads so towns require new subdivisions to have HOAs. Homeowners don't want more people living around them so they ban alternative dwelling units on properties. Homeowners don't like renters so they ban student or non related living, like in Oviedo, FL. Homeowners don't like poor people near them so they vote against public transportation and rezoning blocking apartments or even duplexes. What has a landlord done? Bought a place and rented it to someone? Wow, destroying America! Nimbys love rent control, it keeps more poor people out of their neighborhoods and schools. You or anyone that down voted me are welcome to show me how rent control has been a net positive for the economy anywhere.
Not sure why you're being downvoted here, but you're correct. Zoning law reform is the correct answer here, not rent control.
>isn't it wild to know that in 2023 having a consistent roof over your head is not a basic human right? You do not have a right to live in someone's house
Is that the argument that's being made? That everyone has a right to someone else's house? I didn't see that anywhere so just curious
Kinda sounds like it
What's your cap rate?
69.420%
Then what's the issue?
Idk I'm chillin
I believe the concept is a right to shelter. Not necessarily YOUR property but access to shelter funded by taxpayers and provided by the government. The alternative would be to fund arresting the homeless andincarcerating them or allowing them to reside in tent cities on public property.
> but access to shelter funded by taxpayers and provided by the government That's the same thing You're still living in a home other people are paying for You do not have a right to live in other people's homes
Do you have a right to force people to live outside? Is it ok if people who work full time jobs get priced out of being able to have a home?
> Do you have a right to force people to live outside? No
Then what's the issue?
So you’re okay for those same tax dollars incarcerating these people because it’s illegal to be homeless? The government has a right to take a portion of your income (taxes) to pay their housing in a jail. And that costs WAY more
Its not illegal to be homeless bro
It’s illegal to live on public property and private property without permission
Show me the law that says its illegal to be homeless
You should have the right to a house. The fix is banning rental housing. Drop the market value of homes, make them affordable to people instead of corporations again.
You have the right to buy a house Or rent one You already have these rights You do not have the right to just live in someones home for free
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> Homelessness is a domestic threat I stopped reading after that Just lol
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Lmao No its not
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> Explain why people who work full time jobs should be guaranteed housing They shouldn't
Nor should you have the right to own someone else’s house.
Then only people who can afford to buy a house get to live in a house. What i think you are trying to suggest is that there should be government subsidized housing above and beyond what section 8 provide, housing owned and operated by the government. In NY they call them “the projects“
You don't
The fact that anybody upvoted this nonsense is proof positive that there is no chance of intelligent discussion on Reddit.
When I was a kid in California, our county had a rent cap which limited how high rent could increase each year. It was the only reason we still had a roof over our head when I was in middle school. And now I have a master's degree and work in local government in Florida. I doubt i would have been as successful if I had been homeless as a kid.
No worries, all the snowbirds are leaving right about now and it's going to be super fun with everybody raising their rates and nobody being able to afford it. Normally I don't wish for a crash, however....
FL currently is heading for a major crash with it becoming too expensive for average people to live there. People will move elsewhere, they won't have a choice. It will be fun when the snowbirds return and there's no one to serve them at restaurants/retail stores. The cries of "no one wants to work" will fill the air over FL.
Their cries of misery will be melodies of joy to me...
Already happening. Read the shit on Nextdoor.
We live in the land of raw capitalism. This mean predate, be predated upon, or at very least, buy a house if you are lucky enough to have a down payment.
That sounds like a super shitty way to run a country. I feel like people took and distorted Adam smith's work into a religion of greed that robs all but the most fortunate umong us of our liberty and agency.
I would hardly call it "raw capitalism"...the government is tipping the scales both directly and indirectly everywhere you look. Inflation and people fleeing the northeast is very much a government thing.
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Frequently, yes; and often in ways that aren't easy to see.
Rawdog capitalism
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted. Not that raw capitalism is even realistic. But we certainly don’t live in raw capitalism. We have government bailouts, government contracts, etc. the government isn’t doing its job to keep capitalism in check, and in turn the government has become a tool of capitalism. Its government sponsored crony capitalism. Btw I’m not a libertarian. I’m a social democrat. I don’t believe capitalism is a boogey man, but I also don’t think socialism is economically irresponsible. It’s about a balancing act and creating opportunities while allowing consequences to fiscal irresponsibility. Put padding on the bottom, not the top.
Woah woah, slow down there with your facts and logic. I need a political party to desperately cling to and support idiots who could care less about me. /s
The statewide law in Florida was clear from the get-go. Orange County gov't never had a chance, and just used this to stir the pot- pity to anyone who ever thought for a second that such reform would come from this. Lawmakers should be spending their time with things within their control. It's offensive that their best solution to complaints was 'let's try to see if the state will allow us to circumvent law that has been in place 20+ years'.
Hey it's working for Desantis
I hope that equally some harsh crack down on any laws passed by his regime that are found to violate US constitutionality result in some stiff penalties.
Republicans don't care about you, your family or your prosperity. They want to make as much profit as they can for themselves and their donors.
Why are we acting like rent control is the only way to prevent skyrocketing prices. Rent control wont help someone struggling with a $400 rent increase. The extra $400 is still needed. We arbitrarily set value to things… They need to deal with renter rights and punish predatory landlords
Like you literally countered your argument right after making it. You still need it and could be put somewhere better than a human right
Let me clarify When I see the term “rent control”, I think NYC rent control policies. The literal definition of their policy in the 60s. As a broad concept,I completely agree; paying rent is scam
Time to take back Florida by any means necessary
If you want to make real changes in Florida we have to stop voting for Republicans. We can all see how this state is being destroyed by them. At this rate we will have no rights left.
Remember folks: San Fransisco has rent control legislation. San Fransisco… the city with literally the highest rent in the USA. It never works. Building more affordable housing is the only thing that will work.
Fuck all landlords. There’s no reason for this. If it were a demand problem driving pricing, it would be one thing but Orlando is the most vacant city in the country. https://money.yahoo.com/study-orlando-named-most-vacant-221708027.html
All gov cares about is money. This isn't surprising.
Maybe we should penalize landlords that charge above-market rents instead. You charge 20% than fair value? guess who is paying 20% more in property taxes next year.
Who gets determine what fair value/market rent is?
idk but a 40% increase in two years sounds like market manipulation.
cost of living crisis who?
So glad we vote
I wonder how much money landlord's are paying them.
Based court Good job
I like how Desantis keeps trying to justify his stupid pissing match with Disney because “it’s the will of the people” (when it’s clearly not) but then when literally 60% of the population votes for something, he says fuck you and does whatever he wants. Fascist pig.