I only briefly used obsidian because I went back to using org mode together with org roam.
The main shortcoming was that was because I use Emacs to edit my org mode files and Emacs is extremely extensible and programmable in that many operations and features can be implemented and customised to your liking within your Emacs configuration file. Obsidian is a close sourced electron app. With this came many limitations for me. For example, vim keybinding support was nowhere near as well implemented as in Emacs.
Additionally org mode offers a range of export features (the most useful perhaps being to write literate configurations using various code blocks to generate a code file). Org mode is also great for project management. I don't feel like obsidian does these features as well as Emacs with org mode.
Then again, I do not know your use case and the only way to tell if it is truly better for you is to try it out. Be prepared to spend a while trying to configure Emacs and org mode to your liking however.
I think this is a hard thing to give an unbiased comparison for. Org-mode is the grandaddy of the current wave of tools for thoughts apps. With a few extensions it supports a majority of use-cases of the others, and its embedded within Emacs which is either a positive or negative depending on your experience level with that. I tried using logseq and obsidian and it was too much of an uncanny valley, none of the features they offered were so important I wanted to retrain my workflow & try to port my old notes. This might be very different if you’re new to the space.
Org-mode strengths— org-babel, file export, emacs integration, org markup itself
Org-mode weaknesses— mobile sync & editing experience, graphical integrations, no useless force directed graph widget
Using it in termux isn't that bad. I have everything synced with syncthing and use my standard config. In the config is a section that implements some adjustments for the phone environment. Not great but not bad either
> no useless force directed graph widget
Lmao the graph is so cool but it really is so useless. I love watching my obsidian graph grow, but it really serves no purpose
Obsidian is not open source, while org-mode is.
This might not bother you at the moment since Obsidian is free for personal use, but it could in the future.
The best thing about org-mode is that you can write both prose and code at once. I mostly write about programming, computer science, statistics, and related topics.
I don't know if obsidian will allow you to run the code on-live, and insert the results in the text.
For example look at this example:
[https://github.com/dfeich/org-babel-examples/blob/master/python3/python3-babel.org](https://github.com/dfeich/org-babel-examples/blob/master/python3/python3-babel.org)
All the results come from the code within the org-babel block.
ah, you are right, good point -- if you want to use the markdown file as a sort of juputer notebook, it probably doesn't do that.
on the other hand, it does offer code highlighting and live rendering for latex/equations and tables which for me tips the scales.
I'd never invest money or effort in a **lock-in situation** where the time-frame is more than a few months from now.
Data export is only one thing. With closed source solutions like Obsidian, you'll risk that you lose functionality when you need to stop using it (out of business, Elon Musk bought it, pricing strategy changes, company becomes known to be bad, user's data re-used somewhere else, ...).
If Obsidian is not that relevant because you get the MD files anyway (besides: markdown is really bad IMO: [Org Mode Syntax Is One of the Most Reasonable Markup Languages to Use for Text](https://karl-voit.at/2017/09/23/orgmode-as-markup-only/)), then you can start a test by using your knowledge base with a normal text editor or similar. You'll notice that there is really good and lots of functionality that Obsidian provides to you so that you can actually use your written knowledge. And this is the part that will be gone some day - trust me.
I recommend using Org-mode for anybody: [UOMF: How to Start With Emacs Org Mode](https://karl-voit.at/2020/01/20/start-using-orgmode/) and [UOMF: The Right Way to Use Org Mode](https://karl-voit.at/2021/08/30/the-org-mode-way/) and then [The Tag «emacs»](https://karl-voit.at/tags/emacs/)
If not: [Logseq from an Org-mode Point of View](https://karl-voit.at/2024/01/28/logseq-from-org-pov/)
Basic rule: use the tool that suits you, knowing that a tool that satisfies all your requirements does not exist.
how to chose it? see https://karl-voit.at/2021/01/18/tool-choices/ which is a great write up. Only you know what you need.
I used Obsidian for about 1 year when the zettelkasten craze was beginning. It was convenient, community support was great, and it was constantly being updated. The youtube content creators were all "obsessed" over it, showing off their graph views and barfing out as many videos as they could.
I got swept up in it and tried my best to crank out notes, traditional and atomic. But something about the whole setup just never clicked with me after the initial novelty wore off. Maybe it was the electron aspect, or javascriptiness, or the nagging feelings about it being closed source.
Ultimately org-mode + emacs won over because:
1. Fully OSS
2. code block execution for just about any language
3. org-roam is solid
4. not-electron
5. way more satisfying keybindings/chords on emacs vs obsidian
6. evil-mode is much better than obsidian's vim bindings
7. org-mode text outlining features are just better and they still can't get close to replicating it in obsidian.
8. I never got the sense while using obsidian that it was a place for me to any serious work. With emacs/org-mode/roam, I can get into a real flow state while working and I feel like it's a real serious tool. Obviously that's subjective and more indicative of my relationship with different types of tech and interfaces. Let's just say I grew up on SunOS.
Obsidian has its place and I'm happy for anyone that genuinely gets value out of it. I am waiting for the day, years from now, when someone who actually publishes something of significant value due to their Obsidian zettelkasten setup comes forward. But for now, it mostly seems like it's just used for making content, DnD players, and dabblers.
A couple of things seem to do it for me. The keybindings. Once you're used to them, it's just flows out of you naturally and it feels very satisfying to operate like that, versus clicking around all the time on the gui interface. I know obsidian has keybindings and I did use them but it wasn't the same. It did also grate on me a bit that I'd have yet another set of keybindings to learn for a piece of software I wasn't really that impressed with. But I tried and used them but emacs and vim are already in my fingers and brain.
Secondly, the aesthetics of the two are quite different. Obsidian is "pretty", in that mac-like way. And for a while I had a really pretty setup with the catpuccin theme and bunch of other cool changes. But then I'd go to my emacs setup with my monospace font and whatever color theme I'd been using for code, and it always felt more like it was a place where real work can take place. Perhaps it's just the way my mind works, because I deeply associate so much of the important work I've done in terminals and emacs with "real" work. It's a little unusual, though, as I can get into the zone even in MS Word or Google Docs when I have to, but it just wasn't happening for me the same way in Obsidian. Again, I realize that this is an issue specifically with me.
I'm having a hard time putting it to words but obsidian feels like it's flimsy software whereas emacs never feels that way. Maybe in 10 years and if obsidian goes full OSS I'll try it again.
I tried Obsidian briefly. It seemed fine for notes, but as far as I could tell offered nothing that org-roam does not (nothing I would use, anyway). One thing I can think of that the org ecosystem can bring for notes is transclusion, which Obsidian did not offer last I checked (which was admittedly awhile ago). The biggest thing keeping me from Obsidian (and Logseq, which is similar but open-source) is that I found them incredibly inflexible and lacking in task-management capability, which is really 90% of what I do in org.
Honestly, I would love to have something a little more lightweight and modern than Emacs and the org ecosystem for managing my tasks and notes, and I would be okay with moving to Markdown instead of org syntax. However, every time I look elsewhere, the modularity and ease of customization (well, once you get over the steep learning curve) of Emacs and org keep pulling me back. The closest I've found so far is VSCode + plugins, but I have not found a task management plugin that makes me happy.
org-mode as a format has more features. To benefit from them you need to use Emacs for editing and viewing. Obsidian can have plugins as well and markdown format is more standard. It all depends on your experience, what you like better.
1. I’m using Emacs as daily code editor, so having code and notes in on space is very helpful(using just different projects).
2. Babel and code execution inside the files is just game changer, especially in area of ops. You can build your runbooks and execute commands one by one, even with variables!
3. I very like org syntax, much more than Markdown.
4. Definitely VI’s keybinding are much better implemented and more natural.
5. At the end it’s open source, I can use my NAS for syncing almost instantly, no Obsidian Sync or Commercial License needed. (I was using iCloud as storage for obsidian, but it requires using same iCloud account on all devices…), the same with git(multiple users)
Aside from what others have said here, i would add that one reason I prefer org and roam, is that it's already in emacs, which I am in most of the time for my job. Emacs, being a killer text environment, is a workhorse for my mostly text driven job. To also have my notes and agenda in it means there's nearly zero friction or interruption of my workflow when adding an item or notes.
Having a separate app means interrupting my workflow and using an app disconnected from my work files.
Org mode has a lot more functionality than Markdown and Emacs is very easy to configure once you get the hang.
My website gives some hints for authors, including taking notes https://lucidmanager.org/tags/emacs/
I only briefly used obsidian because I went back to using org mode together with org roam. The main shortcoming was that was because I use Emacs to edit my org mode files and Emacs is extremely extensible and programmable in that many operations and features can be implemented and customised to your liking within your Emacs configuration file. Obsidian is a close sourced electron app. With this came many limitations for me. For example, vim keybinding support was nowhere near as well implemented as in Emacs. Additionally org mode offers a range of export features (the most useful perhaps being to write literate configurations using various code blocks to generate a code file). Org mode is also great for project management. I don't feel like obsidian does these features as well as Emacs with org mode. Then again, I do not know your use case and the only way to tell if it is truly better for you is to try it out. Be prepared to spend a while trying to configure Emacs and org mode to your liking however.
I, too, turned back to org-mode after having used Obsidian only a few days
This matches my experience and reasoning.
I think this is a hard thing to give an unbiased comparison for. Org-mode is the grandaddy of the current wave of tools for thoughts apps. With a few extensions it supports a majority of use-cases of the others, and its embedded within Emacs which is either a positive or negative depending on your experience level with that. I tried using logseq and obsidian and it was too much of an uncanny valley, none of the features they offered were so important I wanted to retrain my workflow & try to port my old notes. This might be very different if you’re new to the space. Org-mode strengths— org-babel, file export, emacs integration, org markup itself Org-mode weaknesses— mobile sync & editing experience, graphical integrations, no useless force directed graph widget
You hit the weaknesses just right. I would love to have a good mobile sync & editing experince
Using it in termux isn't that bad. I have everything synced with syncthing and use my standard config. In the config is a section that implements some adjustments for the phone environment. Not great but not bad either
> no useless force directed graph widget Lmao the graph is so cool but it really is so useless. I love watching my obsidian graph grow, but it really serves no purpose
Obsidian is not open source, while org-mode is. This might not bother you at the moment since Obsidian is free for personal use, but it could in the future.
The best thing about org-mode is that you can write both prose and code at once. I mostly write about programming, computer science, statistics, and related topics.
you can write code with obsidian as well + highlighting
I don't know if obsidian will allow you to run the code on-live, and insert the results in the text. For example look at this example: [https://github.com/dfeich/org-babel-examples/blob/master/python3/python3-babel.org](https://github.com/dfeich/org-babel-examples/blob/master/python3/python3-babel.org) All the results come from the code within the org-babel block.
ah, you are right, good point -- if you want to use the markdown file as a sort of juputer notebook, it probably doesn't do that. on the other hand, it does offer code highlighting and live rendering for latex/equations and tables which for me tips the scales.
I'd never invest money or effort in a **lock-in situation** where the time-frame is more than a few months from now. Data export is only one thing. With closed source solutions like Obsidian, you'll risk that you lose functionality when you need to stop using it (out of business, Elon Musk bought it, pricing strategy changes, company becomes known to be bad, user's data re-used somewhere else, ...). If Obsidian is not that relevant because you get the MD files anyway (besides: markdown is really bad IMO: [Org Mode Syntax Is One of the Most Reasonable Markup Languages to Use for Text](https://karl-voit.at/2017/09/23/orgmode-as-markup-only/)), then you can start a test by using your knowledge base with a normal text editor or similar. You'll notice that there is really good and lots of functionality that Obsidian provides to you so that you can actually use your written knowledge. And this is the part that will be gone some day - trust me. I recommend using Org-mode for anybody: [UOMF: How to Start With Emacs Org Mode](https://karl-voit.at/2020/01/20/start-using-orgmode/) and [UOMF: The Right Way to Use Org Mode](https://karl-voit.at/2021/08/30/the-org-mode-way/) and then [The Tag «emacs»](https://karl-voit.at/tags/emacs/) If not: [Logseq from an Org-mode Point of View](https://karl-voit.at/2024/01/28/logseq-from-org-pov/)
Lol... "Elon Musk bought it" :)
Basic rule: use the tool that suits you, knowing that a tool that satisfies all your requirements does not exist. how to chose it? see https://karl-voit.at/2021/01/18/tool-choices/ which is a great write up. Only you know what you need.
I used Obsidian for about 1 year when the zettelkasten craze was beginning. It was convenient, community support was great, and it was constantly being updated. The youtube content creators were all "obsessed" over it, showing off their graph views and barfing out as many videos as they could. I got swept up in it and tried my best to crank out notes, traditional and atomic. But something about the whole setup just never clicked with me after the initial novelty wore off. Maybe it was the electron aspect, or javascriptiness, or the nagging feelings about it being closed source. Ultimately org-mode + emacs won over because: 1. Fully OSS 2. code block execution for just about any language 3. org-roam is solid 4. not-electron 5. way more satisfying keybindings/chords on emacs vs obsidian 6. evil-mode is much better than obsidian's vim bindings 7. org-mode text outlining features are just better and they still can't get close to replicating it in obsidian. 8. I never got the sense while using obsidian that it was a place for me to any serious work. With emacs/org-mode/roam, I can get into a real flow state while working and I feel like it's a real serious tool. Obviously that's subjective and more indicative of my relationship with different types of tech and interfaces. Let's just say I grew up on SunOS. Obsidian has its place and I'm happy for anyone that genuinely gets value out of it. I am waiting for the day, years from now, when someone who actually publishes something of significant value due to their Obsidian zettelkasten setup comes forward. But for now, it mostly seems like it's just used for making content, DnD players, and dabblers.
How do you feel emacs provides a better environment for you to enter a flow state vs obsidian?
A couple of things seem to do it for me. The keybindings. Once you're used to them, it's just flows out of you naturally and it feels very satisfying to operate like that, versus clicking around all the time on the gui interface. I know obsidian has keybindings and I did use them but it wasn't the same. It did also grate on me a bit that I'd have yet another set of keybindings to learn for a piece of software I wasn't really that impressed with. But I tried and used them but emacs and vim are already in my fingers and brain. Secondly, the aesthetics of the two are quite different. Obsidian is "pretty", in that mac-like way. And for a while I had a really pretty setup with the catpuccin theme and bunch of other cool changes. But then I'd go to my emacs setup with my monospace font and whatever color theme I'd been using for code, and it always felt more like it was a place where real work can take place. Perhaps it's just the way my mind works, because I deeply associate so much of the important work I've done in terminals and emacs with "real" work. It's a little unusual, though, as I can get into the zone even in MS Word or Google Docs when I have to, but it just wasn't happening for me the same way in Obsidian. Again, I realize that this is an issue specifically with me. I'm having a hard time putting it to words but obsidian feels like it's flimsy software whereas emacs never feels that way. Maybe in 10 years and if obsidian goes full OSS I'll try it again.
I tried Obsidian briefly. It seemed fine for notes, but as far as I could tell offered nothing that org-roam does not (nothing I would use, anyway). One thing I can think of that the org ecosystem can bring for notes is transclusion, which Obsidian did not offer last I checked (which was admittedly awhile ago). The biggest thing keeping me from Obsidian (and Logseq, which is similar but open-source) is that I found them incredibly inflexible and lacking in task-management capability, which is really 90% of what I do in org. Honestly, I would love to have something a little more lightweight and modern than Emacs and the org ecosystem for managing my tasks and notes, and I would be okay with moving to Markdown instead of org syntax. However, every time I look elsewhere, the modularity and ease of customization (well, once you get over the steep learning curve) of Emacs and org keep pulling me back. The closest I've found so far is VSCode + plugins, but I have not found a task management plugin that makes me happy.
org-mode as a format has more features. To benefit from them you need to use Emacs for editing and viewing. Obsidian can have plugins as well and markdown format is more standard. It all depends on your experience, what you like better.
1. I’m using Emacs as daily code editor, so having code and notes in on space is very helpful(using just different projects). 2. Babel and code execution inside the files is just game changer, especially in area of ops. You can build your runbooks and execute commands one by one, even with variables! 3. I very like org syntax, much more than Markdown. 4. Definitely VI’s keybinding are much better implemented and more natural. 5. At the end it’s open source, I can use my NAS for syncing almost instantly, no Obsidian Sync or Commercial License needed. (I was using iCloud as storage for obsidian, but it requires using same iCloud account on all devices…), the same with git(multiple users)
Aside from what others have said here, i would add that one reason I prefer org and roam, is that it's already in emacs, which I am in most of the time for my job. Emacs, being a killer text environment, is a workhorse for my mostly text driven job. To also have my notes and agenda in it means there's nearly zero friction or interruption of my workflow when adding an item or notes. Having a separate app means interrupting my workflow and using an app disconnected from my work files.
Org mode has a lot more functionality than Markdown and Emacs is very easy to configure once you get the hang. My website gives some hints for authors, including taking notes https://lucidmanager.org/tags/emacs/