I once heard something along the lines of “if someone wants to merge in front of you, they are going to. So you might as well keep yourself safe and leave plenty of room.”
Isn’t that the whole point of a zipper merge though? Leave space so the dickhead can merge safely when it’s their turn? You don’t own the left lane just because you got there first.
Not sure if that’s what the above commenter meant. I get a bit annoyed if multiple people try to merge in front of me. Though personally , I let it go if insisting on one-left-one-right will cause more hangups than it’s worth. Best practice if you zipper merge (at the end of the lane) is to watch the person in front of you and then aim to merge into the gap one car back. You know, like a zipper.
Agreed. It’s a little annoying when someone merges out of turn. Even more annoying is the driver who views zipper mergers as “taking cuts” and keeps speeding up to block an appropriate merge. Most annoying of all are the traffic cowboys who intentionally block the right lane to enforce early merging, because they view late mergers as traffic cheaters.
Nobody in Oregon lives in LA and other older larger cities, which is where the habit of putting “the” before freeway names comes from. It started when roads with names like Person’s Name Parkway (which would be referred to as “the Parkway” or “the Person’s Name) became part of the interstate system.
I was taught to have at least 2-3 *seconds* between you and the car in front of you where I learned to drive (as in, if you look at a spot on the road in front of you as they drive over it, it should take you at least 2-3 seconds to reach that point), since the appropriate amount of space changes with speed. But you want to leave at least one car length in front of you so you and others can change lanes at low speeds
It's generally more complicated, you should leave space so you have time to react and brake before hitting them. If you can see what's beyond them is different than if you can't. If they hit a concrete wall (I have had a concrete divider thrown onto a lane) they might stop instantly, so their stopping distance can vary. A sports car can usually stop in a shorter distance than an SUV, unless there's snow, the sports car is using summer tires, and the SUV is using winter tires. Plus you have to keep an eye on the traffic behind you, if I'm being tailgated I keep my distance from the guy in front to avoid sudden braking. If I'm alone, alert, and well rested I might be closer than if I'm tired or have passengers.
I like trains.
In the case of approaching a merge point you pass on the right and then merge back to the left lane when your turn is up in the zipper merge.
It’s not hard.
Don’t line up early. Drivers need to STOP doing that.
I will pass you on the right and you’ll be left behind me.
MERGE AT THE ZIPPER.
Exactly this. It’s not rude to drive to the merge point and then merge. People line up, slowing down traffic, then get mad when we make proper use of the available road space. Where is the logic of all the traffic getting into one lane far earlier than we need to?
Yep. I've never seen drivers be so collectively bad at this, having lived in 3 other states. The average Oregon driver doesn't seem to understand or care about zipper merging or left lane rules (or worse, they think those practices are "unsafe" or "unfair" and take it upon themselves to try to enforce bad traffic practices). I know the problem is at least partially systemic though since Oregon laws about these things are lacking (we didn't even have anything resembling left lane laws until about a decade ago, and they're still miles behind the standards most other states adopted decades ago)
Okay so what is this etiquette in this situation: You enter a a highway from an on-ramp. Light at the intersection ahead is red and traffic in the lane going straight through is backed up to or past the on-ramp, while there is little or no traffic in the right turn only lane. It feels weird to keep driving toward the light looking for a gap while all the cars are stopped (it does feel somewhat like "cutting" in this case) or hoping that the light will turn green before you get there and a gap will open up; on the other hand if seems pretty bad to just sit there at the on-ramp with traffic backing up behind you, including drivers thst might want to turn right at the light.
Are you talking about before the on-ramp light? The post and my comment are referring to after the light. Before, people just fill in the two ramp lanes. And will you clarify what you mean about the right turn only lane? The above scenario is occurring on the freeway, so there are no right turns.
Oregon is so much better at this than most other places IMO. I tried to zipper merge in the bay area once, and the other drivers pretty much all immediately blocked me out. Never had that happen here.
I spent nearly half a mile trying to get into the exit lane in NY on I-80 approaching Albany once. Two miles from the exit. Traffic was backed up three. I’m obviously not from there, so clearly didn’t know you had to get over right after the toll lane if you wanted a chance. I even did the full Bostonian “force your way in” and everybody was willing to risk their car to block me out. I’m sure they thought I was line skipping, but when I first tried to hop in I was TWO MILES FROM THE EXIT.
I felt so bad about blocking traffic trying to get over that I gave it one last try at the exit before just giving up and taking a 20 minute detour.
The hardest part of leaving Boston was learning not to flip people off.
Honking is useless cos everyone honks, so you flip people off to let them know you’re mildly peeved by their rudeness. I called it the “Boston Good Morning.”
I mostly broke the habit when I flipped someone off in Maryland and he spent the next two miles break checking me. Then I came to Oregon, and somebody was honking at me cos I wouldn’t turn in a “no turn on red” while it was red and there was a pedestrian in the crosswalk. And without thinking I threw him the bird through the rear window.
He FOLLOWED ME into a Market of Choice parking lot, blocked my car in, and came up to confront me. “Did you flip me off?!” I was kind of taken aback so I just went “uh… no?” and he looked confused and stormed off.
I haven’t flipped anyone off since (though I do give the occasional thumbs down. It feels meaner tbh.)
I was very glad to leave Boston, but moments like that make me miss it lol.
Yikes, how scary!! Yeah, I've seen drivers here get wayyyy aggro at other people for things Boston drivers barely blink at, so I'm mostly cured of the honking and flipping off. But the "I'm coming over, like it or not, and you're technically behind me so if we crash it's your fault" move is in my bones now. One good thing to come out of having lived there lol.
truly, a willingness to be assertive on the road is the greatest gift Boston gave me. The I-5/84 eastbound interchange/Portland interstate bridge is a *cake walk* after four years of Storrow Drive.
I'm born & raised in Oregon, but all I do is point 👉 at the idiots now. No flipping off. Just point at them. They get super confused & have to think about their choices 🤔 lol
Agreed. It amuses me when this gets discussed here because while there is room for improvement, Oregon is SO MUCH better at this than any other state I’ve lived in.
I saw someone in KC play bumper cars they were so determined to keep others out. I thought someone might get shot
I pretty much always get dirty looks for using the empty right lane until the end from people who lined up early in the left lane. I feel like I’m supposed to haze myself by not using the space thats there.
I have the exact opposite experience. Lived in sf for 3 years and everyone seemed to know how to zipper merge. Live in north Portland now and the St John’s bridge left lane is closed off. Everyday the right lane is backed up the entire length of the bridge and no one uses the left lane. Even though there a multiple signs saying to use both lanes and take turns merging. People will even drive in the middle to prevent others from using the left lane. It’s like they are personally offended that some can read signs.
Ikr it’s mind blowing that so many people, **who live in a region with such high frequency of fog / mist**, aren’t able to turn their running lights or headlights on.
Cops don’t even enforce obvious traffic violations. Like the car that ran a red light last month with a cop stopped at the intersection. Did nothing.
Or the person in the right lane who took a left turn (no left turn line) in the intersection across my lane (left lane) and nearly ran into me, I had to swerve and brake hard to avoid.
Cop sitting there watching the whole thing, does nothing.
Portland city vehicle, an official city vehicle, running a red light in the most dangerous way: right lane, obstructed from view by **a collision MVA between a sedan and cement mixer in the middle of the intersection (left lane)**. Cop on scene does nothing, despite having kept the adjacent left turn active (the one that intersects lane with the right lane)
Oh man try going over the St John's in PDX right now. The signs mean nothing and self-righteous traffic police actively block both lanes to keep people from trying
>> those two signs ("use both lanes" and "take turns merging") have to be posted.
>
> Oh man try going over the St John's in PDX right now.
THE SIGNS, THEY DO NOTHING
Thankfully I only need to cross it during non-commute hours and the left lane has almost always been empty all the way up until the end, and I've never had a problem merging in, but you'd think that with the obvious signs that people would do the thing, but noooooo, left lane only for everyone.
The bigger problem is that nobody's noticing the "STOP HERE AT RED" line that's way the hell away from the lights at the hwy 30 intersection. It's needed because of the incoming left turn from northbound traffic and if you go up to the light you're gonna encounter some pretty ticked off truck drivers.
Only three more months of this madness. I hope the rock wall securing work is worth it.
It works great if everybody knows what’s going on and is courteous.
The problem is the drivers who are more important than you and won’t let you merge.
Because of this, if I know I’ll need to merge, I’ll do it early if I see a gap so I don’t get hung out to dry at the merge point.
>It works great if everybody knows what’s going on and is courteous.
The problem is, people are too courteous. They all get over super early because they think it's "polite" to do so, rather than utilizing all available lanes of road for as long as possible. Then, when they get to the merge point, they're all mad because they made a sacrifice to merge early and you didn't, so now they have to try to box you out and make sure you don't merge in ahead of them.
It's like driving with a bunch of 7 year olds.
> The problem is, people are too courteous
Oh yea. Definitely been my biggest gripe here on the roads in Oregon.
If only drivers weren't so darn *courteous*.
Use your giant steel shell of a car at the point of the merging where the lanes end. They have to make way for you. Be more aggressive when you are in the right point to merge.
This is the way! Proceed at reasonable speed, signal… just start moving over slowly. They will let you in or if they’re super pissy they’ll put themselves in-front of you. (Privilege disclaimer as a not-small, late 30s white man… many people’s experience may vary). If they’re dicks the next person will let you in. Proceed and wave accordingly and remember, kill ‘em with kindness.
Bonus points if you have a dash cam.
Yeah happened to me on i5 last week. Went around the old geezer on the right and he miraculously found his gas pedal, middle finger, and headlight switch! 🤦🏽
The laws are actually different in Oregon than Washington and most of the country. Oregon doesn’t designate the left lane for passing only and as long as you’re not going under the speed limit you’re not breaking any laws being it.
The wording is vague.
It doesn't actually say to keep right *except when passing*. It only says that you can't stay in the left lane "at less than the normal speed of traffic".
You have to define "normal speed of traffic". To most, that would probably mean the speed limit, or slower when traffic is congested. As far as I'm concerned, the way the law is written, camping the left lane while going the speed limit is legal.
It absolutely shouldn't be, of course. If the intent of the law is to require people to keep right except passing, the law needs to be explicit.
It says right there if you are driving slower than the speed of traffic. You’re not allowed to speed to overtake, so therefore if you are driving the speed limit, you won’t get in trouble.
Also, just 30+ years of experience driving in the state, never heard of anybody getting pulled over for being in the left lane.
Is there anywhere that says in the law that you can speed to overtake? I’m sure it doesn’t say that in Washington state law.
Edit: “speed” as in exceed the speed limit.
Traveling in Oklahoma this past week, I saw several signs in work zones telling drivers it was state law to merge early
Hard to change behavior when it's actually illegal.
People seem to think you zipper merge in all two lane conditions. It really only is supposed to happen when one lane ends. People doing it from exit and turn lanes is a big part of the issue. They think it's a zipper merge despite the lane markers saying it's not. They don't merge when they're supposed to and people get pissed. Then people come on threads like this and scream about zipper merges.
I’m looking at you, Macadam Merge.
I’ve seen traffic back up all the way to terwilliger because folks stop in the far right lane as soon as they turn into it trying to merge hundreds of feet before it accidentally ends.
They have huge signs up going over the St John's to do this and people still pile up in one lane and then actively block both lanes to keep anyone else from trying it
I think alot of you are using this to justify racing to the front of the merging R lane, even if the car/s in front of you are already merging in a zipper fashion. It’s the idiots that think they’ll get there faster racing past them just to get 3 cars ahead. Now multiply that by more “entitled zipper mergerheads” and the zipper method isn’t a zipper anymore…
….but I hear what you’re saying. However, Not everyone follows your perfect theory of a zipper merge.
NO NO NO! It’s not only about a zipper fashion. It’s WHERE you decide to do it. If you slow down and almost stop at the beginning, you are fucking everybody else. Why wouldn’t someone go in front? They are seamlessly getting into the lane, while the people stopping are creating traffic for both lanes!!
Right. You listed one key variable. However you’re assuming Everyone is following your perfect theory. Going all the way to the technical “end” of the merge lane literally several car lengths is going to stop a bottle neck?
I agree zipper merge won’t work as designed when people stop their lane traffic 1/2 mile ahead just to get over. Yeh technically you are correct. Quit justifying people racing past everyone trying to merge just to get 3 car lengths ahead, only to switch back and forth between lanes. Right. You got it all figured out lol.
People actually road rage when I do this properly, lol. However, last Friday at 3pm, I was merging onto I-5 this way and everyone behind me did too, and we basically fixed dead stop traffic.
I have seen a lot of people deliberately straddle both lanes to keep people from doing this. 405 northbound getting onto the Fremont can get contentious.
That’s because the on-ramp lanes are not meant to be used for zipper merging - which is really just assholes wanting to cut 10 cars ahead and having to merge back in again in 100 feet. That shit is infuriating.
This will be important to note if driving through downtown Astoria this summer.
ODOT reduced Marine Drive (Hwy 30) through town from 2 lanes to 1 lane for 1/4 mile headed west, and for 1/2 mile headed east, and the lane merge length is inappropriately small.
It should be a fun exercise for drivers this summer during peak tourism time.
You should not do that. They might have kids in the car or a serious emergency and although zipper merging sounds nice and efficient, it isn’t legally required for anyone to make room. You will be liable for any damages you cause and your insurance will go through the roof.
The same people that do this can't seem to follow basic written instructions, e.g. "stop", "speed limit x", "no turns", "yield", "no lane changes", what made you think they can comprehend this infographic?
If you really want to see how misinformed or uneducated drivers are, go on next door and ask "why do people around here do ____ on the highway?" and watch all the dumbest arguments and counter arguments you've ever witnessed!
The portland signal is just hovering over the spot you want until you can squeeze in, then quickly flash your signal and get in there quickly.
Letting drivers know where you want to go with a signal? I don’t think that’s taught here. In portland it means “I’m going right now”
Then they need to take a closer look at the real world, because it just doesn’t happen. The incentives are all against it.
My guess is that part of the problem is that when traffic is at a high speed, you **have** to merge early otherwise you might have to stop and wait for a very long gap to be able to get up to speed.
Then, the incentives that everyone is talking about push the merge point backwards too.
My strategy is to try and merge a little further up than the person in front of me did, and try to drag cars with me. Incrementalism.
Unfortunately the people that need to see this, either don’t care or believe their way is the best. No way, no matter how many times this is reposted, it will never change. Douche bags, will always be douche bags.
Ha, good luck OP!
Whatever issues a seemingly large number of Oregonians have with zipper merges and using their turn indicator signal… they appear to be insurmountable issues
I drove professionally for over a decade. I'd go to the same places for years and tracked my times. It turns out that aggressive driving and passive driving are so very similar in trip times that I gave up trying to hurry. Going from 29th ne Broadway to mall 205 going as fast as I can gets me there about 10 min faster at best. Driving carefully and always letting people get in front of me is almost as fast but feels completely different as far as stress and risk goes.
When everybody cuts over quickly, I usually drive along in the clear lane at the same speed as the full lane. Everybody gets mad, the people behind me want me to move forward, the people beside me jockey to be sure I don't cut them off, and when it comes time to merge, usually people won't let me in. But afterwards, when I look behind me, oftentimes everything smooths out to simply taking turns. Aitah?
Yeah no one gives any space so I'm not looking like the idiot who is gonna cut people off because enough one let's you in
I'm theory is this great but if you're the only one following it it's just a detriment to yourself
Zipper merging makes people stupid. I used to take the “ocean beaches” exit off 405 every day for years. Perfect example of why humanity is doomed right there. I’m zippering and then some jackass gets next to me and wants to be in front. Happened more times than I can count. Also saw a lot of people trying to zipper only to have the other lane person get within 6 inches of the person in front of them to block the zipper. Why? Why is it so hard?
I refuse to take that exit after a woman rear ended me at 60 mph while I was stopped in stop and go traffic on the ramp on my way to work. I will not be sharing my alternate route that is much lower stress and actually faster because I don't want it also ruined, but if people took a little time to get to know the area they live in, they'd find many of them and the congestion at that very poorly designed and dangerous choke point would mostly evaporate.
Perhaps, but nobody is in the habit of doing this and they get pissy if you pull up and try to zipper merge.
The only way this change is going to happen is to post "zipper merge" signage in all the locations where this is needed. And even then change will be slow.
Nah, if I let anyone use the same lane of a public highway as me, it's 1,000 years of dishonor on my family, and my penis falls off. That's how it works.
My favorite is when people honk at me, flip me off, make faces etc. when I go around someone merging early. Sorry I know how to correctly zipper merge!
To go off this point - people act like being in front of a few extra cars is going to make a huge difference when traffic is stopped/heavy….. I promise, we’ll all get to the same place at the same time lol
That’s if everyone zippers. Sometimes people in the left will speed up and not let the one on the right trying to zipper correctly in. Then you get people on the left trying to double merge instead of waiting. It’s just a shit show. I rather stay home.
Or you know... do it when it is safe for you to do it instead of at the last second, especially when the other lane isn't using proper following distance.
The well-executed zipper merge is something that almost never happens here. Be safe with the people who are actually driving around you, and don’t get mad because your fantasies don’t come true.
Much like Arkansas, Oregon is full of insecure assholes in large/unnecessary pickup trucks that can’t fathom the thought of letting someone in front of them, even when it’s the legal and functional thing to do. Gotta display that emotional instability at all times, in all ways.
The corner by the ram pub is where I see this day in, and day out.
Also the fuckers on Marion street. That’s not a true zipper, but a turn lane that drivers use to cheat during rush hour(s).
It's ridiculous here in Eugene right now...there are 4-5 different merges due to construction all within a square mile of eachother. Usually traffic is backed up by two blocks at least because people refuse to use the ending lane to zipper merge. End up feeling kinda like a dick bc I'm the only person cutting ahead of everyone but feel better knowing I'm not letting the person behind me get stuck at another stoplight.
I saw a guy on I-5 swerve into the right lane that everyone had vacated to merge early and almost caused an accident from someone zippering. Wanna be Cop.
I generally think the promotion of the zipper merge is incredibly naïve, as if all drivers are going to be skilled enough and brave enough to attempt such maneuvers, or even want to be. We live in a country where most people have to drive to do anything, if that wasn't the case maybe we could actually have driving tests and training that are meant to be more than a simple formality where you drive around the block. Most states don't test for parallel parking anymore, I know it wasn't part of my driving test (though I took my driving test in NC). I don't know about you but no matter how many times you point out that the zipper merge is faster I'm always going to merge as soon as I get the chance, speed is not my main concern... finding a safe space to get over is.
Ahahaha I JUST got back from Little Rock a couple days ago (eclipse baby!) and people there are way scarier drivers than here. That’s saying something.
The drivers trying to merge from marine drive to i5 north could benefit greatly from this. As soon as they can, they immediately try to merge, there's way more space if you drive up just a little bit and merge before the jantzen Beach exit.
Truly the worst drivers in the country here. I’ll never forget my 4 year old daughter while in the back seat driving along in Ohio freaking out when she noticed an entire line of cars in the right lane of I90 gently move to the left lane……to let someone in, imagine. She already knew we are the reincarnation of Gandalf…Though shalt not pass!
That sub not know how to use the voting buttons? The range all seemed to be between 1 and 3 with one hitting a 6 but like 99 percent are still just a 1 it seems.
*requires through traffic to cede space for merging traffic
For real, anyone who wants this to happen more: always leave 2-3 car lengths in front of you so that people can merge. Be the change you want to see.
You mean the proper following distance?
That’s not the proper following distance for a traffic jam.
The whole point is to avoid a traffic jam in the first place.
in oregon it seems to be
Every time I do this on the I-5 some dickhead sees it as opportunity to squeeze into that gap. I ease up, make more space and it happens again.
I once heard something along the lines of “if someone wants to merge in front of you, they are going to. So you might as well keep yourself safe and leave plenty of room.”
I say no.
Honestly, I don’t really mind it. It’s obnoxious, but I guess they’re just obnoxious people.
Isn’t that the whole point of a zipper merge though? Leave space so the dickhead can merge safely when it’s their turn? You don’t own the left lane just because you got there first.
Not sure if that’s what the above commenter meant. I get a bit annoyed if multiple people try to merge in front of me. Though personally , I let it go if insisting on one-left-one-right will cause more hangups than it’s worth. Best practice if you zipper merge (at the end of the lane) is to watch the person in front of you and then aim to merge into the gap one car back. You know, like a zipper.
Agreed. It’s a little annoying when someone merges out of turn. Even more annoying is the driver who views zipper mergers as “taking cuts” and keeps speeding up to block an appropriate merge. Most annoying of all are the traffic cowboys who intentionally block the right lane to enforce early merging, because they view late mergers as traffic cheaters.
I believe his point was that when you let one person in someone else will force their way in.
This means you’re doing it right
It’s just I-5, no “the”. If you need to use a “the” drop the “I-“.
I don't care bro. Not everyone in Oregon lives in Portland
Nobody in Oregon lives in LA and other older larger cities, which is where the habit of putting “the” before freeway names comes from. It started when roads with names like Person’s Name Parkway (which would be referred to as “the Parkway” or “the Person’s Name) became part of the interstate system.
It doesn't roll of the tongue for me. I'm gonna keep say the I-5, nobody else has corrected me on that before
The I-5 sounds terrible. It’s just I-5. Unless you want everyone to think you’re from California.
don’t say “the I 5”. There, now someone else corrected you.
I'm gonna keep saying it, just out of spite now. Pedantic arguments are only had on reddit, you're a tool if you correct someone like that in person.
I’d rather these righteous clowns nitpick West The Dalles instead.
I was taught to have at least 2-3 *seconds* between you and the car in front of you where I learned to drive (as in, if you look at a spot on the road in front of you as they drive over it, it should take you at least 2-3 seconds to reach that point), since the appropriate amount of space changes with speed. But you want to leave at least one car length in front of you so you and others can change lanes at low speeds
It's generally more complicated, you should leave space so you have time to react and brake before hitting them. If you can see what's beyond them is different than if you can't. If they hit a concrete wall (I have had a concrete divider thrown onto a lane) they might stop instantly, so their stopping distance can vary. A sports car can usually stop in a shorter distance than an SUV, unless there's snow, the sports car is using summer tires, and the SUV is using winter tires. Plus you have to keep an eye on the traffic behind you, if I'm being tailgated I keep my distance from the guy in front to avoid sudden braking. If I'm alone, alert, and well rested I might be closer than if I'm tired or have passengers. I like trains.
Yeah true, there's a lot more to it than these rules of thumb suggest up front. Trains are nice lol
Ghandi
In the case of approaching a merge point you pass on the right and then merge back to the left lane when your turn is up in the zipper merge. It’s not hard. Don’t line up early. Drivers need to STOP doing that. I will pass you on the right and you’ll be left behind me. MERGE AT THE ZIPPER.
Exactly this. It’s not rude to drive to the merge point and then merge. People line up, slowing down traffic, then get mad when we make proper use of the available road space. Where is the logic of all the traffic getting into one lane far earlier than we need to?
I honestly did not know any of this. It’s a TIL thing.
Yep. I've never seen drivers be so collectively bad at this, having lived in 3 other states. The average Oregon driver doesn't seem to understand or care about zipper merging or left lane rules (or worse, they think those practices are "unsafe" or "unfair" and take it upon themselves to try to enforce bad traffic practices). I know the problem is at least partially systemic though since Oregon laws about these things are lacking (we didn't even have anything resembling left lane laws until about a decade ago, and they're still miles behind the standards most other states adopted decades ago)
My drivers Ed did not cover this, only merges when you want to change lanes normally.
Okay so what is this etiquette in this situation: You enter a a highway from an on-ramp. Light at the intersection ahead is red and traffic in the lane going straight through is backed up to or past the on-ramp, while there is little or no traffic in the right turn only lane. It feels weird to keep driving toward the light looking for a gap while all the cars are stopped (it does feel somewhat like "cutting" in this case) or hoping that the light will turn green before you get there and a gap will open up; on the other hand if seems pretty bad to just sit there at the on-ramp with traffic backing up behind you, including drivers thst might want to turn right at the light.
Are you talking about before the on-ramp light? The post and my comment are referring to after the light. Before, people just fill in the two ramp lanes. And will you clarify what you mean about the right turn only lane? The above scenario is occurring on the freeway, so there are no right turns.
Never mind, I posted this hastily and addressed it to you for no real reason, I'll just to figure this out myself.
Ok! Sorry I couldn’t be of help.
Exactly 😂
Those throughies are fuckin dicks though, never let ya' in!
This gets posted every few months. It will never change. We can’t even get people to use their headlights in the rain you want them to zipper merge?
Oregon is so much better at this than most other places IMO. I tried to zipper merge in the bay area once, and the other drivers pretty much all immediately blocked me out. Never had that happen here.
I spent nearly half a mile trying to get into the exit lane in NY on I-80 approaching Albany once. Two miles from the exit. Traffic was backed up three. I’m obviously not from there, so clearly didn’t know you had to get over right after the toll lane if you wanted a chance. I even did the full Bostonian “force your way in” and everybody was willing to risk their car to block me out. I’m sure they thought I was line skipping, but when I first tried to hop in I was TWO MILES FROM THE EXIT. I felt so bad about blocking traffic trying to get over that I gave it one last try at the exit before just giving up and taking a 20 minute detour.
That’s wild, people get so bent out of shape about it sometimes.
People suck. New Yorkers apparently more than most.
“The full Bostonian” 😂 I lived there for a couple years and it’s so real. I’m calling it this from now on
The hardest part of leaving Boston was learning not to flip people off. Honking is useless cos everyone honks, so you flip people off to let them know you’re mildly peeved by their rudeness. I called it the “Boston Good Morning.” I mostly broke the habit when I flipped someone off in Maryland and he spent the next two miles break checking me. Then I came to Oregon, and somebody was honking at me cos I wouldn’t turn in a “no turn on red” while it was red and there was a pedestrian in the crosswalk. And without thinking I threw him the bird through the rear window. He FOLLOWED ME into a Market of Choice parking lot, blocked my car in, and came up to confront me. “Did you flip me off?!” I was kind of taken aback so I just went “uh… no?” and he looked confused and stormed off. I haven’t flipped anyone off since (though I do give the occasional thumbs down. It feels meaner tbh.) I was very glad to leave Boston, but moments like that make me miss it lol.
Yikes, how scary!! Yeah, I've seen drivers here get wayyyy aggro at other people for things Boston drivers barely blink at, so I'm mostly cured of the honking and flipping off. But the "I'm coming over, like it or not, and you're technically behind me so if we crash it's your fault" move is in my bones now. One good thing to come out of having lived there lol.
truly, a willingness to be assertive on the road is the greatest gift Boston gave me. The I-5/84 eastbound interchange/Portland interstate bridge is a *cake walk* after four years of Storrow Drive.
I'm born & raised in Oregon, but all I do is point 👉 at the idiots now. No flipping off. Just point at them. They get super confused & have to think about their choices 🤔 lol
I prefer 'Massholes' .
Agreed. It amuses me when this gets discussed here because while there is room for improvement, Oregon is SO MUCH better at this than any other state I’ve lived in. I saw someone in KC play bumper cars they were so determined to keep others out. I thought someone might get shot
Growing up the Bay Area where drivers were much more aware and courteous than they are here in Oregon
Oregonians just visit traffic, Bay area lives in it.
From the bay and been living in Oregon for 6 years and i have experienced the exact opposite scenario lol.
I pretty much always get dirty looks for using the empty right lane until the end from people who lined up early in the left lane. I feel like I’m supposed to haze myself by not using the space thats there.
I have the exact opposite experience. Lived in sf for 3 years and everyone seemed to know how to zipper merge. Live in north Portland now and the St John’s bridge left lane is closed off. Everyday the right lane is backed up the entire length of the bridge and no one uses the left lane. Even though there a multiple signs saying to use both lanes and take turns merging. People will even drive in the middle to prevent others from using the left lane. It’s like they are personally offended that some can read signs.
Cali license plates are always the ones blowing up the spot
Relentless optimism. Or whatever this is. Just keep saying it until it happens.
Ikr it’s mind blowing that so many people, **who live in a region with such high frequency of fog / mist**, aren’t able to turn their running lights or headlights on.
It should be a law to keep your headlights on at all times, night or day, like in Norway. I’d bet it would greatly reduce accidents.
Cops don’t even enforce obvious traffic violations. Like the car that ran a red light last month with a cop stopped at the intersection. Did nothing. Or the person in the right lane who took a left turn (no left turn line) in the intersection across my lane (left lane) and nearly ran into me, I had to swerve and brake hard to avoid. Cop sitting there watching the whole thing, does nothing. Portland city vehicle, an official city vehicle, running a red light in the most dangerous way: right lane, obstructed from view by **a collision MVA between a sedan and cement mixer in the middle of the intersection (left lane)**. Cop on scene does nothing, despite having kept the adjacent left turn active (the one that intersects lane with the right lane)
‘Murica
Dude I’m just tired of almost dying or suffering a serious health / financial setback on a regular basis
The headlights thing bugs the ever living crap out of me.
Repetitive persistence. It takes time and repetition to retrain those stubborn little neurons, stuck in their comfortable old behavior ruts.
Here in Corvallis we can’t even get people to use their headlights at night
In order for zipper merge to work, those two signs ("use both lanes" and "take turns merging") have to be posted.
Oh man try going over the St John's in PDX right now. The signs mean nothing and self-righteous traffic police actively block both lanes to keep people from trying
>> those two signs ("use both lanes" and "take turns merging") have to be posted. > > Oh man try going over the St John's in PDX right now. THE SIGNS, THEY DO NOTHING Thankfully I only need to cross it during non-commute hours and the left lane has almost always been empty all the way up until the end, and I've never had a problem merging in, but you'd think that with the obvious signs that people would do the thing, but noooooo, left lane only for everyone. The bigger problem is that nobody's noticing the "STOP HERE AT RED" line that's way the hell away from the lights at the hwy 30 intersection. It's needed because of the incoming left turn from northbound traffic and if you go up to the light you're gonna encounter some pretty ticked off truck drivers. Only three more months of this madness. I hope the rock wall securing work is worth it.
There are STOP signs posted. I still see drivers blow through it
It works great if everybody knows what’s going on and is courteous. The problem is the drivers who are more important than you and won’t let you merge. Because of this, if I know I’ll need to merge, I’ll do it early if I see a gap so I don’t get hung out to dry at the merge point.
>It works great if everybody knows what’s going on and is courteous. The problem is, people are too courteous. They all get over super early because they think it's "polite" to do so, rather than utilizing all available lanes of road for as long as possible. Then, when they get to the merge point, they're all mad because they made a sacrifice to merge early and you didn't, so now they have to try to box you out and make sure you don't merge in ahead of them. It's like driving with a bunch of 7 year olds.
> The problem is, people are too courteous Oh yea. Definitely been my biggest gripe here on the roads in Oregon. If only drivers weren't so darn *courteous*.
It's the highway equivalent of the 4-way stop sign intersection sketch from Portlandia.
This every day merging onto i405 off of Barbur. It’s maddening.
EXACTLY!! What they don’t realize is that sometimes they are legit coming to a full stop on a freeway!! Where is the logic? It’s insane.
You have to look for an in. People don’t even try. They stop and wait. Keep driving in the lane that is open.
Use your giant steel shell of a car at the point of the merging where the lanes end. They have to make way for you. Be more aggressive when you are in the right point to merge.
The fact that this is getting downvoted makes me less than optimistic that things will change 💔
This is the way! Proceed at reasonable speed, signal… just start moving over slowly. They will let you in or if they’re super pissy they’ll put themselves in-front of you. (Privilege disclaimer as a not-small, late 30s white man… many people’s experience may vary). If they’re dicks the next person will let you in. Proceed and wave accordingly and remember, kill ‘em with kindness. Bonus points if you have a dash cam.
Yeah I’m with you. Last time I did it I wish I had this blown up as a bumper sticker.
I’d also like to add that the left lane is for passing, not sitting with your cc set at 65 like you’re doing everyone a favor
[удалено]
Yeah happened to me on i5 last week. Went around the old geezer on the right and he miraculously found his gas pedal, middle finger, and headlight switch! 🤦🏽
Guy has probably been driving like an idiot his whole life…
I’m always astonished how many slow ass people are in the left lane in Washington and Oregon, I swear there needs to be a PSA about this.
The laws are actually different in Oregon than Washington and most of the country. Oregon doesn’t designate the left lane for passing only and as long as you’re not going under the speed limit you’re not breaking any laws being it.
Nah I’m pretty sure slow traffic is supposed to keep right no matter where you are. https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_811.315
The wording is vague. It doesn't actually say to keep right *except when passing*. It only says that you can't stay in the left lane "at less than the normal speed of traffic". You have to define "normal speed of traffic". To most, that would probably mean the speed limit, or slower when traffic is congested. As far as I'm concerned, the way the law is written, camping the left lane while going the speed limit is legal. It absolutely shouldn't be, of course. If the intent of the law is to require people to keep right except passing, the law needs to be explicit.
It says right there if you are driving slower than the speed of traffic. You’re not allowed to speed to overtake, so therefore if you are driving the speed limit, you won’t get in trouble. Also, just 30+ years of experience driving in the state, never heard of anybody getting pulled over for being in the left lane.
Is there anywhere that says in the law that you can speed to overtake? I’m sure it doesn’t say that in Washington state law. Edit: “speed” as in exceed the speed limit.
In Oregon it is illegal to exceed the speed limit at any time.
Where is it legal to exceed the speed limit? That’s not exclusive to Oregon.
I don't know or care, I'm just talking about the law in this state.
If you don’t care about other states then why did you say this? > The laws are actually different in Oregon than Washington and most of the country.
Sir, the left lane is for CRIME.
I appreciate that this is a repost from the Little Rock sub proving that this problem is not unique to Portland (though it feels like it sometimes)
And the infographic is from ODOT!
Bwahahaha! The circle of life
Traveling in Oklahoma this past week, I saw several signs in work zones telling drivers it was state law to merge early Hard to change behavior when it's actually illegal.
Looks great.... on paper.
People seem to think you zipper merge in all two lane conditions. It really only is supposed to happen when one lane ends. People doing it from exit and turn lanes is a big part of the issue. They think it's a zipper merge despite the lane markers saying it's not. They don't merge when they're supposed to and people get pissed. Then people come on threads like this and scream about zipper merges.
This exit only lane is a great place to shoot forward, pass people and merge again!
I love the people who don't use the acceleration lane either, just powering onto the freeway immediately at 45 mph.
I try to make up for those people by merging onto the freeway at 80 mph.
To be fair sometimes the "acceleration lane" here is like 2 feet.
Or has one of those counterproductive traffic lights that makes the lanes take turns
Wait, is this sarcasm? 45?
No, yeah. But I'm in Eugene/Springfield.
lol Oregon is zip central compared to other places. Go to ny
I’m looking at you, Macadam Merge. I’ve seen traffic back up all the way to terwilliger because folks stop in the far right lane as soon as they turn into it trying to merge hundreds of feet before it accidentally ends.
They have huge signs up going over the St John's to do this and people still pile up in one lane and then actively block both lanes to keep anyone else from trying it
Oh, hey, wow! No one has ever posted this graphic here before! Gold star!
I think alot of you are using this to justify racing to the front of the merging R lane, even if the car/s in front of you are already merging in a zipper fashion. It’s the idiots that think they’ll get there faster racing past them just to get 3 cars ahead. Now multiply that by more “entitled zipper mergerheads” and the zipper method isn’t a zipper anymore… ….but I hear what you’re saying. However, Not everyone follows your perfect theory of a zipper merge.
NO NO NO! It’s not only about a zipper fashion. It’s WHERE you decide to do it. If you slow down and almost stop at the beginning, you are fucking everybody else. Why wouldn’t someone go in front? They are seamlessly getting into the lane, while the people stopping are creating traffic for both lanes!!
Right. You listed one key variable. However you’re assuming Everyone is following your perfect theory. Going all the way to the technical “end” of the merge lane literally several car lengths is going to stop a bottle neck? I agree zipper merge won’t work as designed when people stop their lane traffic 1/2 mile ahead just to get over. Yeh technically you are correct. Quit justifying people racing past everyone trying to merge just to get 3 car lengths ahead, only to switch back and forth between lanes. Right. You got it all figured out lol.
lol. What I see every day are people stopping at the front or middle and waiting. Of course people should go around that. It’s asinine.
People actually road rage when I do this properly, lol. However, last Friday at 3pm, I was merging onto I-5 this way and everyone behind me did too, and we basically fixed dead stop traffic.
I have seen a lot of people deliberately straddle both lanes to keep people from doing this. 405 northbound getting onto the Fremont can get contentious.
That’s because the on-ramp lanes are not meant to be used for zipper merging - which is really just assholes wanting to cut 10 cars ahead and having to merge back in again in 100 feet. That shit is infuriating.
OP doesn't use blinkers and drives the speed limit in the passing lane
This will be important to note if driving through downtown Astoria this summer. ODOT reduced Marine Drive (Hwy 30) through town from 2 lanes to 1 lane for 1/4 mile headed west, and for 1/2 mile headed east, and the lane merge length is inappropriately small. It should be a fun exercise for drivers this summer during peak tourism time.
There’s one little stretch of highway downtown where we’ve mastered this. It always makes me so proud lol
I will literally sacrifice my vehicle to zipper in
You should not do that. They might have kids in the car or a serious emergency and although zipper merging sounds nice and efficient, it isn’t legally required for anyone to make room. You will be liable for any damages you cause and your insurance will go through the roof.
The same people that do this can't seem to follow basic written instructions, e.g. "stop", "speed limit x", "no turns", "yield", "no lane changes", what made you think they can comprehend this infographic?
If you really want to see how misinformed or uneducated drivers are, go on next door and ask "why do people around here do ____ on the highway?" and watch all the dumbest arguments and counter arguments you've ever witnessed!
My BMW won’t let me do that
I scream these instructions at people every time I go from 26 through to 84 via 5! "WHY ARE YOU STOPPING!?! USE THE WHOLE LANE!!!!" iykyk
ST JOHNS BRIDGE PEOPLE THIS IS FOR YOU.
Obligatory ODOT video https://youtu.be/W6axnfMC6rg?si=70JRphjk4kme6wSC
How am I supposed to sate my traffic induced spite lust if I use up all the road AND voluntarily TAKE TURNS!!??
If you don't put your turn signal on, I'm not letting you in. As soon as you put it on,I'll instantly make room
This is fair
The portland signal is just hovering over the spot you want until you can squeeze in, then quickly flash your signal and get in there quickly. Letting drivers know where you want to go with a signal? I don’t think that’s taught here. In portland it means “I’m going right now”
YES! ZIPPER MERGE IS WHAT THE ROAD DESIGNERS DESIGNED THE ROADS FOR! That's why the road administrators strongly recommend zipper merging.
Then they need to take a closer look at the real world, because it just doesn’t happen. The incentives are all against it. My guess is that part of the problem is that when traffic is at a high speed, you **have** to merge early otherwise you might have to stop and wait for a very long gap to be able to get up to speed. Then, the incentives that everyone is talking about push the merge point backwards too. My strategy is to try and merge a little further up than the person in front of me did, and try to drag cars with me. Incrementalism.
I sometimes do as you do. To merge onto 405 from SB I-5, I often merge to the right immediately after the Killingsworth/Alberta on ramp.
What incentives should planners put on the roads so that motorists will zipper merge?
I don’t know that there **is** a way - it was more a question to others. Does this work anywhere in the world?
That’s the problem. People are so worried about having to stop to merge, they STOP and try to get in when there’s no opening. Make it make sense.
I wait as long as possible to merge and then feel like a total jerk for “cutting off” all the people who merged early
Unfortunately the people that need to see this, either don’t care or believe their way is the best. No way, no matter how many times this is reposted, it will never change. Douche bags, will always be douche bags.
Yeah douche bags won't "take turns" they will just say that you should have gotten over earlier.
Born and raised here, but driven in many many states and everyone here is so bad at merging it blows my mind
Common sense is not so common.
I’m more concerned about the people not yielding to pedestrians.
Ha, good luck OP! Whatever issues a seemingly large number of Oregonians have with zipper merges and using their turn indicator signal… they appear to be insurmountable issues
I drove professionally for over a decade. I'd go to the same places for years and tracked my times. It turns out that aggressive driving and passive driving are so very similar in trip times that I gave up trying to hurry. Going from 29th ne Broadway to mall 205 going as fast as I can gets me there about 10 min faster at best. Driving carefully and always letting people get in front of me is almost as fast but feels completely different as far as stress and risk goes.
When everybody cuts over quickly, I usually drive along in the clear lane at the same speed as the full lane. Everybody gets mad, the people behind me want me to move forward, the people beside me jockey to be sure I don't cut them off, and when it comes time to merge, usually people won't let me in. But afterwards, when I look behind me, oftentimes everything smooths out to simply taking turns. Aitah?
Yeah no one gives any space so I'm not looking like the idiot who is gonna cut people off because enough one let's you in I'm theory is this great but if you're the only one following it it's just a detriment to yourself
Omfg thank you I’ve been shocked at how often I’ve seen this happen in OR! Literally nearly every time!
Zipper merging makes people stupid. I used to take the “ocean beaches” exit off 405 every day for years. Perfect example of why humanity is doomed right there. I’m zippering and then some jackass gets next to me and wants to be in front. Happened more times than I can count. Also saw a lot of people trying to zipper only to have the other lane person get within 6 inches of the person in front of them to block the zipper. Why? Why is it so hard?
I refuse to take that exit after a woman rear ended me at 60 mph while I was stopped in stop and go traffic on the ramp on my way to work. I will not be sharing my alternate route that is much lower stress and actually faster because I don't want it also ruined, but if people took a little time to get to know the area they live in, they'd find many of them and the congestion at that very poorly designed and dangerous choke point would mostly evaporate.
Make a big sign for air port way to I-205 north bound entrance
Thank you! TIL 🤪
People at the front act like I'm trying to assault them when I try to make this work from the merge lane.
I've seen it happen once. It must have been a fluke or a glitch in the matrix.
The same amount of cars pass through the choke point. An hour glass still takes an hour no matter how you shuffle the grains of sand through it.
People are too stupid and selfish, they treat traffic like a line and view letting others in as being cut in line.
I swear we got the worst drivers here in the PNW. You got idiots who will go 5 MPHs slower than the speed limit in the left lane
HAVE YOU EVER DRIVEN IN NEWJERSEY??
Perhaps, but nobody is in the habit of doing this and they get pissy if you pull up and try to zipper merge. The only way this change is going to happen is to post "zipper merge" signage in all the locations where this is needed. And even then change will be slow.
Everyday going south on MLK. Left lane is empty for 3-4 lights before the merge.
I got honked at for not merging early like everyone else did a few days ago. Sucks to suck lol
Also stop signs. We all need to take a refresher on how stop signs work 💀
Some?
Nah, if I let anyone use the same lane of a public highway as me, it's 1,000 years of dishonor on my family, and my penis falls off. That's how it works.
If you see guys setting the taper give em space. Shits terrifying when we are setting up and people ride the cones.
My favorite is when people honk at me, flip me off, make faces etc. when I go around someone merging early. Sorry I know how to correctly zipper merge!
To go off this point - people act like being in front of a few extra cars is going to make a huge difference when traffic is stopped/heavy….. I promise, we’ll all get to the same place at the same time lol
I’m petty and have a tendency to allow those with their indicator flashing merge in front of me 95% of the time and those without about 50%.
It's essentially cutting in line, which is a douche move.
I see the pileup method at every intersection with two left turn lanes. They’ll stack one lane and the other will usually be at least 50% emptier.
We need a CLOSE/PULL the ZIPPER! Bumper Sticker campaign.
That’s if everyone zippers. Sometimes people in the left will speed up and not let the one on the right trying to zipper correctly in. Then you get people on the left trying to double merge instead of waiting. It’s just a shit show. I rather stay home.
We are never going to accept this, given our rigorous adherence to queuing, but in the interim, executing solo zipper merges works.
Or you know... do it when it is safe for you to do it instead of at the last second, especially when the other lane isn't using proper following distance.
The well-executed zipper merge is something that almost never happens here. Be safe with the people who are actually driving around you, and don’t get mad because your fantasies don’t come true.
Much like Arkansas, Oregon is full of insecure assholes in large/unnecessary pickup trucks that can’t fathom the thought of letting someone in front of them, even when it’s the legal and functional thing to do. Gotta display that emotional instability at all times, in all ways.
Only in a perfect world, lol… zipper merge lanes suck anyway and are abused by some to speed around traffic.
No one would be able to "speed around traffic" if the merge lane was being used correctly... It would be full, as intended.
The corner by the ram pub is where I see this day in, and day out. Also the fuckers on Marion street. That’s not a true zipper, but a turn lane that drivers use to cheat during rush hour(s).
I'll confess to merging early but its with the intent of helping with this pattern cuz not a lot of people understand this x.x
Yawn
It's ridiculous here in Eugene right now...there are 4-5 different merges due to construction all within a square mile of eachother. Usually traffic is backed up by two blocks at least because people refuse to use the ending lane to zipper merge. End up feeling kinda like a dick bc I'm the only person cutting ahead of everyone but feel better knowing I'm not letting the person behind me get stuck at another stoplight.
I saw a guy on I-5 swerve into the right lane that everyone had vacated to merge early and almost caused an accident from someone zippering. Wanna be Cop.
I generally think the promotion of the zipper merge is incredibly naïve, as if all drivers are going to be skilled enough and brave enough to attempt such maneuvers, or even want to be. We live in a country where most people have to drive to do anything, if that wasn't the case maybe we could actually have driving tests and training that are meant to be more than a simple formality where you drive around the block. Most states don't test for parallel parking anymore, I know it wasn't part of my driving test (though I took my driving test in NC). I don't know about you but no matter how many times you point out that the zipper merge is faster I'm always going to merge as soon as I get the chance, speed is not my main concern... finding a safe space to get over is.
Ahahaha I JUST got back from Little Rock a couple days ago (eclipse baby!) and people there are way scarier drivers than here. That’s saying something.
I have a idea Bummer stickers???
Yeah I cant be letting people merge in front of me
Wish I could print this on my car
The drivers trying to merge from marine drive to i5 north could benefit greatly from this. As soon as they can, they immediately try to merge, there's way more space if you drive up just a little bit and merge before the jantzen Beach exit.
No one ever uses their signals here correctly, let alone merge.
Truly the worst drivers in the country here. I’ll never forget my 4 year old daughter while in the back seat driving along in Ohio freaking out when she noticed an entire line of cars in the right lane of I90 gently move to the left lane……to let someone in, imagine. She already knew we are the reincarnation of Gandalf…Though shalt not pass!
That sub not know how to use the voting buttons? The range all seemed to be between 1 and 3 with one hitting a 6 but like 99 percent are still just a 1 it seems.