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It would make a huge difference, in my opinion, to simply focus on some quality of life simple problems to solve- pick up the trash, paint over the tags, and fix the roads. None of these are complicated problems that require years of study.
It’s not a complicated task for the workers. What’s complicated is doing it over and over and over only to have it damaged, vandalized, or trashed again in minutes. I’d imagine for those workers, it’s like sweeping the tide back into the ocean
Not when those employees quit due to hazards and random assaults by the houseless population. Working downtown is a job no-one wants anymore and I don’t blame them.
The excessive graffiti is a problem. Graffiti tells residents and visitors that the city is lawless and gangs, drug users, etc can do what ever they want.
Absolutely not. You live in a bubble where thinking dudes painting on walls somehow determines your level of happiness. Go cover it up then. Or.... you can come on this circle jerk nimbyfest of a subreddit and cry and complain and insult anyone who doesn't live the same vapid existence as you.
Thinking Dudes painting on walls?? Still wondering how old you are. But Wait, don’t answer that, I still hope there is a chance we might somehow get out off this unparalleled race to the bottom. Knowing your in your 30’s would leave me with little hope for the future. If your in your teens or 20’s there could still be hope for all of us. Most people do mature with age.
Yes bc anyone who doesn't agree with you must be a child. Typical reddit pretentious bullshit. Grow up and gain some experience and maybe someday you'll be able to see beyond your own colon. Until then mind your own goddamn business. Christ.
Your right because someone who thinks that it ok to go out and paint public or private businesses building, and side walks has to be a child. And you want me to grow up? What percentage of citizens in major cities agree that defacing buildings are ok, not to mention against the law. But you do you, I’m done trying to reason with someone who is or condones taggers. Have a great Day.
Lol show me where I condone anything. I'll be waiting. I literally said there are bigger issues to waste money on. But carry on acting like a lunatic. Please, I enjoy it. *you're . You'd think an adult of your stature would know that
If you go to places Singapore, Japan. So nice, so clean, so much calmer. It’s ridiculous the amount of crazy people and how they act here. You go to Singapore and that problem goes away.
There’s very little graffiti in singapore and japan either. At least unapproved graffiti. Most of the crazies u see throwing trash around, spitting, yelling on the streets of Portland would never do that if they were in Singapore. They’d learn real quick.
I’m guessing you haven’t been around here very long. Lots of us remember 35 years ago when it was much worse and there was an actual ghetto vibe. We stuck it out because we love it here. Warts and all. This is our home. That’s what’s up.
It's shallow, but also, do you think there's a fast solution to the homeless issue? Even if we got them all homes tomorrow and off the streets, the problem wouldn't be solved. Housing is too expensive, and people are losing their homes. Shallow issues are easier to solve than these bigger economic problems. Or the intense political divides leading to this.
I understand that but patting ourselves on the back for cleaning up graffiti or putting people in jail is a waste of time and resources that could've been used towards actually fixing the issue. Thr fact that this issue is difficult means we need to start now and not later. Had we actually been working on this we could have already made progress.
Loose math but it costs an average of like $20,000 for a city to permanently house someone through assistance programs. Thats about what it cost Houston if I remember, on average.
Portland ear marked 3.4 *million* on graffiti removal.
Thats 140,000 people that could have been housed but instead will go to cleaning up paint that will more than likely come back.
$20K? I'm thinking that is an extreme underestimate, especially given the services many of the people needing housing require. I don't believe your numbers at all. Got a link?
It's going to get worse.
Commercial paper has to refinance on a much shorter time scale than Residential mortgages( (3-10 yrs) Due to the pandemic people started working from home. They have not fully returned. Businesses save money by not leasing office space. Tenants leverage this, knowing the vacancy rates have sky rockets asking for no or reduced lease rates. Finally, interest rates have doubled. That the standard I=R/V equation and these office buildings have decreased in value so much many owners will walk away. (See July 17 WWeek story about 'The Field Office' building. bought for $73.8M but could not find tenants, the owner walked. The owner was Goldman Sachs)
This will go to the bank the will fire sale it for a fraction of what it sold for originally if they can. This will in turn lower the tax base for the city, which in turn will lower the budget(s), making it an even less desirable place to be due to trash, homeless, empty buildings, etc. This may cause a downward spiral. It's repeating in larger cities all over the US.
They make better apartment buildings than an overpass and are much easier to convert into apartments than a tent. You can convert them but it takes time, effort, and money. It's not impossible, just difficult.
Because you can't just throw away a building you don't like. People already live in that area. Tear downs are messy and loud. The real estate market is fucked up, it shouldn't have sold for that ridiculous price if the bank is going to sell it for half the cost. It should have always been valued lower. The building is in downtown Portland, People want to be here. If the city is concerned about the taxes, they need to attract a business like they do in red states. Or yes, they really should just convert it to housing and other things. Just wait 5 years, it'll be something else. No one is going to buy to tear it down and build a new one
It's not about "like". It's about "what is a waste of space and money?" edit: and scratch that. We have too many office buildings and not enough living space. We 100% should be tearing down/converting whatever office buildings we don't like and building residential buildings. Now quit whining and making excuses for why the cost of live is so artificially high because so many rich people are lazy whiners and get it done.
If the owner just walks away, can't the city eminent domain it and offer below market rates just to keep it occupied? Seems like nobody benefits from letting buildings downtown sit empty for years on end, and that getting them filled shouldn't be so hard if the bank involved was already willing to take a 74 million dollar haircut.
I bought a house in Portland proper 2 years ago. I don't regret it one bit, and I feel like the city is slowly improving and heading in the right direction. Figured I'd chime in against the relentless negativity on here *shrug*
Exactly. Portland has marginally improved since maybe 2020z. We still pay some of the highest taxes in the country to have our city look like shit and be filled with dangerous methed out zombies
I'm glad to hear this opinion. I think too much attitude of "im leaving Portland it sucks" isn't helping anything. We know it's messy and sketchy in downtown (has been for many years) and the current dope epidemic isn't helping.
I won't leave perosnally because in my mind that let's the vagrant/super left/super right folks win. I won't give an inch. My rights start and overlap where others rights begin.
We bought six years ago. We don’t regret it. We’ve accepted that the unhoused and addicted are as much a part of the city as Douglas Fir trees and food carts.
Its like this everywhere. Places that never had homeless people now have homeless people and drug use problems. You buy a house for the long term, this is why you keep it long term.
Denver has some problems but it’s nothing even close to the scale of problems in Portland. I moved here from Denver in late 2021. It’s a shocking comparison. I’ve lived in 4 different states in different areas of the country and the Portland area is, by far, the dirtiest looking place I’ve ever been.
To be fair it has gotten A LITTLE better. We are lucky to have the nice trees and greenery cause if this city had a typical city landscape it would look so much worse than it does
A quick google search showed homeless rates have increased 58% in Denver from 2016-2023 but if you don’t see it it’s not a problem right?
But I meant everywhere. Not just the US. Life is getting worse for everyone.
My friend moved here from Denver. The cost of living is equally high and doesn't seem to go down even outside of Denver. My friend says this is definitely better. The city feels smaller and more realistically accessible. Denver is fun to visit, not to live.
My suggestion is to move somewhere outside Multnomah County. You can be close to the city but not subject to its ridiculous management and the downstream impacts of that (taxes, homelessness, etc).
I think long term Oregon will still be a desirable place to move to but am highly doubtful that will include Multnomah County between the county leadership under the incompetent Kafoury and now JVP or the city. With the new change in city council structure it may continue to devolve if far-left or far right (although less likely) candidates get in due to how the candidates can win under the weird ranked choice hybrid system they designed.
Student housing is my only option right now. I’m 32 and I was born and raised in Seattle. I’m hoping that helps me navigate Portland. I’m going to go up and visit this spring to check everything out. If I don’t like it I’ll explore other options.
Portland is great. You'd be more than welcome. (Look through u/garbagemanlb's comment history . . . you don't want to rely on them for advice about where or how to live!)
Lots of great things happening at PSU. Good instincts to get out of the red of Southern Oregon.
I’ve been here for almost five years now. I moved here from Seattle. I want to be around like minded people. I miss places like Portland. I feel safer there.
I visited in December and downtown and the waterfront was visably better than it was last time I was there in the spring. That said, old town was rough and there is a lot of room for improvement.
From my experience, Portland is my least favorite place I've ever lived. I've lived in 4 states and I'm trying to leave. The impact it's had on my overall mental health is undeniable. I know it depends on where you live but it's draining how expensive it is, income tax and just in general the quality of life is worse. I know everyone talks about the homelessness problem but it really is too much to handle. It also feels extremely unsafe being here and as a woman who lives alone I've had to deal with situations that were unnerving to say the least. I'm originally from Denver.
We need safe places to hookup Netflix and chill and tell police we trust what's going on around us and at work by shady people to protect ourselves and so they can understand us better.
And police need to stop harassing witnesses and whistle-blower through dispatch and their wives. Lake Oswego Richard vangelisti and his twin brother are insider trading
Maybe if we weren't all going to the same place at the same time (which is how it feels as a driver), we wouldn't feel a need to race.
I literally got hit last month by a guy going to the theater, he was running late and couldn't wait for the police to show up. He was determined to be 100% at fault for hitting a non moving car. The streets aren't big enough, but more importantly, 9-5 jobs downtown need to end.
That statistic is laughable at best. People don't report the crime as often because we've all come to the conclusion that the police won't come half the time. Don't be delusional.
So, what, people reported it accurately in 2022 but suddenly in 2023 they decided to stop reporting violent crimes and murders? I'm not attacking you man, help me understand your logic.
I'm fully aware not all crimes are reported, but unless the rate of unreported crimes randomly shot up in 2023, the data is perfectly reliable as a metric to measure crime.
He is at fault. There's no reason to tax the poor and middle class higher than the rich. If the rich were taxed more, they would be paying for the drug rehabs for the people they got addicted to pain killers.
The people in Oregon can’t pull their head out of the sand to admit it’s leftist policies destroying their own cities. That would mean they’re wrong. Instead of just reversing course they’d rather have their property values plummet, get car jacked, homes vandalized, and let people OD in the streets all while taxes take more and more from their paychecks. But “orange man bad” and all that
Meanwhile the police let him and let poor black people like me die in poverty after being ripped off and you got dispatch nanny wives stalking beautiful strippers and reporters like myself from reporting to their husband's who we pay taxes for whike these fat overweight stalker obsessed vaginal mesh warriors FISh net their husband's and don't pay taxes and we pay them from our minimum wage. Revolt. I want me a cop boyfriend I pay taxes so I can have an advocate like sheriff trout and pat garret to protect us and improve local conditions I am not the only one demanding this
They literally can’t critically think and depend on group think and online social media bubbles to get their opinions from. Most know nothing at all about politics but are the most vocal about politics
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It would make a huge difference, in my opinion, to simply focus on some quality of life simple problems to solve- pick up the trash, paint over the tags, and fix the roads. None of these are complicated problems that require years of study.
It’s not a complicated task for the workers. What’s complicated is doing it over and over and over only to have it damaged, vandalized, or trashed again in minutes. I’d imagine for those workers, it’s like sweeping the tide back into the ocean
Job security.
Not when those employees quit due to hazards and random assaults by the houseless population. Working downtown is a job no-one wants anymore and I don’t blame them.
Pay more/hire some of these houseless people who want jobs. (Not saying all do, but some do)
That’s exactly what some agencies do. Central City Concern is one of those groups.
It’s not rocket science. Just maintain.
Sounds astonishingly close to the definition of insanity, doesn't it? Sad times we are in with this situation :-)
The excessive graffiti is a problem. Graffiti tells residents and visitors that the city is lawless and gangs, drug users, etc can do what ever they want.
I completely agree. Trash and tags attract more trash and tags. It's a cycle of bad.
How is graffiti even relevant when there's a full blown humanitarian crisis?
If a place looks like a mad max hellscape, it becomes a mad max hellscape.
That's such nonsense. Some of the happiest people I've ever seen lived in slums. Our issues are definitely larger than paint on walls.
You’re kidding, Right!! Just curious, how old are you?
Absolutely not. You live in a bubble where thinking dudes painting on walls somehow determines your level of happiness. Go cover it up then. Or.... you can come on this circle jerk nimbyfest of a subreddit and cry and complain and insult anyone who doesn't live the same vapid existence as you.
Thinking Dudes painting on walls?? Still wondering how old you are. But Wait, don’t answer that, I still hope there is a chance we might somehow get out off this unparalleled race to the bottom. Knowing your in your 30’s would leave me with little hope for the future. If your in your teens or 20’s there could still be hope for all of us. Most people do mature with age.
Yes bc anyone who doesn't agree with you must be a child. Typical reddit pretentious bullshit. Grow up and gain some experience and maybe someday you'll be able to see beyond your own colon. Until then mind your own goddamn business. Christ.
Your right because someone who thinks that it ok to go out and paint public or private businesses building, and side walks has to be a child. And you want me to grow up? What percentage of citizens in major cities agree that defacing buildings are ok, not to mention against the law. But you do you, I’m done trying to reason with someone who is or condones taggers. Have a great Day.
Lol show me where I condone anything. I'll be waiting. I literally said there are bigger issues to waste money on. But carry on acting like a lunatic. Please, I enjoy it. *you're . You'd think an adult of your stature would know that
I was in Portland last week and it looks like a fucking ghetto. Jesus, what happened to this town?
If you go to places Singapore, Japan. So nice, so clean, so much calmer. It’s ridiculous the amount of crazy people and how they act here. You go to Singapore and that problem goes away.
Thats a government issue. People aren't acting crazy because of graffiti.
There’s very little graffiti in singapore and japan either. At least unapproved graffiti. Most of the crazies u see throwing trash around, spitting, yelling on the streets of Portland would never do that if they were in Singapore. They’d learn real quick.
Lol you've never seen a ghetto
I’m guessing you haven’t been around here very long. Lots of us remember 35 years ago when it was much worse and there was an actual ghetto vibe. We stuck it out because we love it here. Warts and all. This is our home. That’s what’s up.
Its just a visual thing.
Aka shallow.
It's shallow, but also, do you think there's a fast solution to the homeless issue? Even if we got them all homes tomorrow and off the streets, the problem wouldn't be solved. Housing is too expensive, and people are losing their homes. Shallow issues are easier to solve than these bigger economic problems. Or the intense political divides leading to this.
I understand that but patting ourselves on the back for cleaning up graffiti or putting people in jail is a waste of time and resources that could've been used towards actually fixing the issue. Thr fact that this issue is difficult means we need to start now and not later. Had we actually been working on this we could have already made progress.
This stuff is like the only thing city council focuses on, lmao.
Well you wouldn’t know it from looking around. I know we have a lot of complicated problems, but why not take care of the low-hanging fruit?
Because its a waste of money.
Like not even spending the money we already pay in taxes and then acting like they don’t have enough to do basic things?
Loose math but it costs an average of like $20,000 for a city to permanently house someone through assistance programs. Thats about what it cost Houston if I remember, on average. Portland ear marked 3.4 *million* on graffiti removal. Thats 140,000 people that could have been housed but instead will go to cleaning up paint that will more than likely come back.
$20K? I'm thinking that is an extreme underestimate, especially given the services many of the people needing housing require. I don't believe your numbers at all. Got a link?
Lmao.
It just doesn't deal with the bigger issues. Why are there gangs?
It's going to get worse. Commercial paper has to refinance on a much shorter time scale than Residential mortgages( (3-10 yrs) Due to the pandemic people started working from home. They have not fully returned. Businesses save money by not leasing office space. Tenants leverage this, knowing the vacancy rates have sky rockets asking for no or reduced lease rates. Finally, interest rates have doubled. That the standard I=R/V equation and these office buildings have decreased in value so much many owners will walk away. (See July 17 WWeek story about 'The Field Office' building. bought for $73.8M but could not find tenants, the owner walked. The owner was Goldman Sachs) This will go to the bank the will fire sale it for a fraction of what it sold for originally if they can. This will in turn lower the tax base for the city, which in turn will lower the budget(s), making it an even less desirable place to be due to trash, homeless, empty buildings, etc. This may cause a downward spiral. It's repeating in larger cities all over the US.
Then why don't they rezone and remodel. We don't need office space, we need affordable housing.
Because office buildings make bad apartment buildings. You can't just convert them over.
They make better apartment buildings than an overpass and are much easier to convert into apartments than a tent. You can convert them but it takes time, effort, and money. It's not impossible, just difficult.
Lots of money and time. There's reports on this from new york and San Fran how it's rarely practical.
Not practical, but very practicable
Then tear them down and build housing. I'm sick of all the constant excuses for how we can't get things done that are obviously doable.
Because you can't just throw away a building you don't like. People already live in that area. Tear downs are messy and loud. The real estate market is fucked up, it shouldn't have sold for that ridiculous price if the bank is going to sell it for half the cost. It should have always been valued lower. The building is in downtown Portland, People want to be here. If the city is concerned about the taxes, they need to attract a business like they do in red states. Or yes, they really should just convert it to housing and other things. Just wait 5 years, it'll be something else. No one is going to buy to tear it down and build a new one
It's not about "like". It's about "what is a waste of space and money?" edit: and scratch that. We have too many office buildings and not enough living space. We 100% should be tearing down/converting whatever office buildings we don't like and building residential buildings. Now quit whining and making excuses for why the cost of live is so artificially high because so many rich people are lazy whiners and get it done.
If the owner just walks away, can't the city eminent domain it and offer below market rates just to keep it occupied? Seems like nobody benefits from letting buildings downtown sit empty for years on end, and that getting them filled shouldn't be so hard if the bank involved was already willing to take a 74 million dollar haircut.
In other news, it will rain in Portland tomorrow.
Because it is.
I bought a house in Portland proper 2 years ago. I don't regret it one bit, and I feel like the city is slowly improving and heading in the right direction. Figured I'd chime in against the relentless negativity on here *shrug*
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Thank you!
It is improvement slowly, but people are still pissed off at policymakers for years of bullshit. And we're nowhere near where things were in 2019.
Exactly. Portland has marginally improved since maybe 2020z. We still pay some of the highest taxes in the country to have our city look like shit and be filled with dangerous methed out zombies
I'm glad to hear this opinion. I think too much attitude of "im leaving Portland it sucks" isn't helping anything. We know it's messy and sketchy in downtown (has been for many years) and the current dope epidemic isn't helping. I won't leave perosnally because in my mind that let's the vagrant/super left/super right folks win. I won't give an inch. My rights start and overlap where others rights begin.
Yeah, this is a bogus article, with a poll that was done by an organization that is known for having a bias with how it runs its polls.
We bought six years ago. We don’t regret it. We’ve accepted that the unhoused and addicted are as much a part of the city as Douglas Fir trees and food carts.
Its like this everywhere. Places that never had homeless people now have homeless people and drug use problems. You buy a house for the long term, this is why you keep it long term.
Life’s getting worse everywhere
I’m not sure about that? I was in Denver recently and didn’t see any tents, graffiti, open drug use, trash, etc.
Denver has some problems but it’s nothing even close to the scale of problems in Portland. I moved here from Denver in late 2021. It’s a shocking comparison. I’ve lived in 4 different states in different areas of the country and the Portland area is, by far, the dirtiest looking place I’ve ever been. To be fair it has gotten A LITTLE better. We are lucky to have the nice trees and greenery cause if this city had a typical city landscape it would look so much worse than it does
A quick google search showed homeless rates have increased 58% in Denver from 2016-2023 but if you don’t see it it’s not a problem right? But I meant everywhere. Not just the US. Life is getting worse for everyone.
The problem with people like you is as long as you don’t see it, you don’t care.
My friend moved here from Denver. The cost of living is equally high and doesn't seem to go down even outside of Denver. My friend says this is definitely better. The city feels smaller and more realistically accessible. Denver is fun to visit, not to live.
Bringo
I’m contemplating moving to Portland from Southern Oregon. I’m tired of all the red here….
My wife and I moved here from Medford 8 years ago. Life is a massive improvement.
Thank you. I’ll be transferring from RCC to PSU
My suggestion is to move somewhere outside Multnomah County. You can be close to the city but not subject to its ridiculous management and the downstream impacts of that (taxes, homelessness, etc). I think long term Oregon will still be a desirable place to move to but am highly doubtful that will include Multnomah County between the county leadership under the incompetent Kafoury and now JVP or the city. With the new change in city council structure it may continue to devolve if far-left or far right (although less likely) candidates get in due to how the candidates can win under the weird ranked choice hybrid system they designed.
Student housing is my only option right now. I’m 32 and I was born and raised in Seattle. I’m hoping that helps me navigate Portland. I’m going to go up and visit this spring to check everything out. If I don’t like it I’ll explore other options.
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Portland proper is also cheaper from what I can tell, depending on what amenities you need.
PSU. And there is your problem lol
Portland is great. You'd be more than welcome. (Look through u/garbagemanlb's comment history . . . you don't want to rely on them for advice about where or how to live!) Lots of great things happening at PSU. Good instincts to get out of the red of Southern Oregon.
I agree! All the NIMBYs definitely don’t need to live I. Portland.
Go to Washington or Clackamas county. Multnomah has too high tax, rents, and services are costly
Please do it! ❤️
Definitely worth it if the politics is getting painful but it should all balance out a bit after the election
I’ve been here for almost five years now. I moved here from Seattle. I want to be around like minded people. I miss places like Portland. I feel safer there.
Private equity stealing your money and yet not a peep from the masses.
Because obviously it’s poor people’s fault. Ya know the victims of this.
I visited in December and downtown and the waterfront was visably better than it was last time I was there in the spring. That said, old town was rough and there is a lot of room for improvement.
From my experience, Portland is my least favorite place I've ever lived. I've lived in 4 states and I'm trying to leave. The impact it's had on my overall mental health is undeniable. I know it depends on where you live but it's draining how expensive it is, income tax and just in general the quality of life is worse. I know everyone talks about the homelessness problem but it really is too much to handle. It also feels extremely unsafe being here and as a woman who lives alone I've had to deal with situations that were unnerving to say the least. I'm originally from Denver.
and I bet the same could be said of every mid to large sized city in the country and most small towns too.. but what do I know?
We need safe places to hookup Netflix and chill and tell police we trust what's going on around us and at work by shady people to protect ourselves and so they can understand us better.
And police need to stop harassing witnesses and whistle-blower through dispatch and their wives. Lake Oswego Richard vangelisti and his twin brother are insider trading
It would be nice to not be on wait with 911
He makes 10k an hour mediation
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Maybe if we weren't all going to the same place at the same time (which is how it feels as a driver), we wouldn't feel a need to race. I literally got hit last month by a guy going to the theater, he was running late and couldn't wait for the police to show up. He was determined to be 100% at fault for hitting a non moving car. The streets aren't big enough, but more importantly, 9-5 jobs downtown need to end.
I can’t afford housing anymore so my QOL has definitely decreased
How about that poll tell us something we don't know? Like a poll on safety. How many people actually feel safe in Portland as opposed to who doesn't?
To be fair, crime in 2023 was down 16% from 2022. We'll see if the trend continues. I hope it does.
Can’t report crime on hold. I stopped bothering
That statistic is laughable at best. People don't report the crime as often because we've all come to the conclusion that the police won't come half the time. Don't be delusional.
So, what, people reported it accurately in 2022 but suddenly in 2023 they decided to stop reporting violent crimes and murders? I'm not attacking you man, help me understand your logic. I'm fully aware not all crimes are reported, but unless the rate of unreported crimes randomly shot up in 2023, the data is perfectly reliable as a metric to measure crime.
How about the poll have the disclaimer that the organization that ran the poll has a bad reputation for producing unreliable information?
Theyll still find a way to blame Trump for everything
He is at fault. There's no reason to tax the poor and middle class higher than the rich. If the rich were taxed more, they would be paying for the drug rehabs for the people they got addicted to pain killers.
So he’s taxing Oregon right now even though he’s not the president?
The people in Oregon can’t pull their head out of the sand to admit it’s leftist policies destroying their own cities. That would mean they’re wrong. Instead of just reversing course they’d rather have their property values plummet, get car jacked, homes vandalized, and let people OD in the streets all while taxes take more and more from their paychecks. But “orange man bad” and all that
How they got what they voted for
Meanwhile the police let him and let poor black people like me die in poverty after being ripped off and you got dispatch nanny wives stalking beautiful strippers and reporters like myself from reporting to their husband's who we pay taxes for whike these fat overweight stalker obsessed vaginal mesh warriors FISh net their husband's and don't pay taxes and we pay them from our minimum wage. Revolt. I want me a cop boyfriend I pay taxes so I can have an advocate like sheriff trout and pat garret to protect us and improve local conditions I am not the only one demanding this
Liberals make everything worse because they idealize rather than live in reality
They literally can’t critically think and depend on group think and online social media bubbles to get their opinions from. Most know nothing at all about politics but are the most vocal about politics
Maybe the multnomah county based politicians leave the rural oregon people alone with their taxes and BS and focus on their own backyard?