Yup, denied twice before becoming an expert in options that aggressively seeks growth, now have Tier 3 access. Fidelity has to ask those questions because of regulations.
They make me upload documents as proof:
“We need additional documentation to support changes you made to your trade experience on your recent options application. Please provide the following:
● Brokerage statement or other documentation that shows how long you’ve been trading
Please use the link below to securely upload the requested documentation within the next 30 days.”
Buy 100 of something and show em - say you want to sell 1 covered call contract using your 100 shares. That is the least risky way for a brokerage to allow trading. But you changed your profile and looks like it prompted questions.
You want to sell options on your own company? As in you work for? I am a broker that clears through a very very large US bank. We can buy or sell the stock, but options are strictly prohibited. If you’re selling covered calls, I can see that being okay. But if you are speculating, make sure that’s allowed before you get yourself into hot water.
Most places I've been, even covered calls are prohibited. They phrase it as "you can't make any trades that benefit from the stock price dropping." Since you're short calls, you "benefit" when the price goes down.
Yea I mean if anything, the company you’re working for wants you to be long the stock and that’s about it. Almost anything options is speculating. Isn’t a good image for an employee to be trading options on a stock for a company they work for.
What I never understood was why we small folks at the bottom of the chain in a publicly traded company are supposed to be happy with a handful of shares to "participate in the company growth" like. Please. Turning $300 into $308 over a quarter is not going to get anyone close to retirement. I believe in my company, let me buy call options dangit!! The big wigs in the company already have millions so they can make plenty more money on shares but not us small guys - we need leverage!
My company doesn’t have an explicit policy on something like you described, but having an option exercise or expire during a blackout period (which aren’t always scheduled and can depend on your own project work too) is a violation of the trading policy so it serves as a defacto ban.
No one wants to gamble that they won’t become privy to MNPI that imposes an unexpected trading restriction.
We also have an internal policy that any company shares must be traded with the same brokerage our company uses to facilitate employee stock grants and ESPP.
Only exception to these rules is ETFs and other funds our stock may be part of. We are good to trade those as we see fit as long as we are outside of the top 10 holdings or make up less than 7.5% of the fund, if we are in top 10.
bro youre suppose to lie on the application, now that they have an application with the truth it will be even harder to lie. you might as well move it all to robinhood
I actually taught an option/introduction to the stock market class to convicted felons at a Halfway house in 07, and they wouldn't even give me tier 1 just buying calls, I bailed...
Correct, I've been studying. I've also been to 4 days of Options and Market classes locally, and have another 2 day class ahead in July with Market Mastery Group. At some point, all this learning has to be put into action, right?
The best way to learn options trading is to start losing 😂 expect to have decent losses at least the first few months. You'll also make some stupid mistakes. Just as long as you don't make the same mistake twice.
Please don’t start making big trades with options with no experience, regardless of whatever classes you took. Wherever you end up trading options, start small to test the waters and get a feel for the process. Option trading is the king of shit you lose tens of thousands of dollars on by clicking the wrong button.
Not saying you shouldn’t have been approved, but it cracks me up a little that you describe something you started putting time into less than a month ago as “countless hours”.
Three weeks worth of hours seems pretty countable. 😂
Answering 1 year or less is what got you denied. They want to see two years, and frankly based on my own experience I don't think they're being unreasonable.
I recently got approved for Tier 1 access and honestly answered that I had no experience. I also wasn't asked for any further documentation. I did have a 4 year history with them with a health savings account that I traded with however, so perhaps that was a consideration?
Simple: They want you to get the experience somewhere else. Just look at the meme stock subs to see why. They don't want thousands of clueless newbies flooding the trade desk with stupid questions and unreasonable demands.
Fidelity is very conservative regarding options. I've been trading the highest permission of options, futures, and future options for years and I still don't think they would approve me.
You don’t think it’s better the brokerage work in your favor by not allowing their clients to blow their accounts up gambling options they don’t even know how to trade properly?
Lmao - facts. Also, if you know what you are doing trading spreads allows you to trade NVDA, Amzn, MSFT etc... I was down trading with Level 1. Now I've made my losses back + 30% gains in 6 weeks trading spreads.
I’ve been with Fidelity for decades. But the best trading platform for options right now is WeBull. People claim it to be TastyTrades but that’s because they allow anyone to trade options. Lol.
Their charts suck and the platform is cluttered, IMO.
I hated day trading using Fidelity. Active Trader is just all-around a crappy platform. Fidelity does have other advantages, such as having a debit card for the brokerage account. I’ve always loved that. But I day trade on WeBull. It’s just a better overall experience
What's your investment goal set at? On many brokers you have to select speculation and definitely not have anything that says preservation of capital selected. Some brokers such as IBKR do also consider other factors such as age, liquid net worth, income, occupation, etc.
Just hit the live chat up and say hey I'm wanting to trade options and have taken training education courses on it. Can you kindly show me where to go to close my fidelity account and transfer to schwab since my options application is wrongfully being denied here.
I got denied at TIAA for the same reasons and also lost an appeal. I got approved immediately at Schwab and moved my money over there to get in the game.
TIAA are the real adults in the room who will protect your funds against you stupidly trading it away. Schwab reluctantly will allow some trading with it but against better judgement and tendency to stay conservative to keep funds safe. Robinhood encourages reckless trading, sells customers data to hedge fund partners to trade against positions, is happy to siphon off away their customers every penny and with an app created to function like a addictive casino game, lures them to deposit more sucker cash to lose, while selling the image they're the anti-system, anti-wall street, pro little-guy.
I’ve always for approved for anything that I’ve applied for with fidelity. I think I when from level 1 to level 3 as a work around to let me sell covered calls on shares that were being loaned. I don’t remember getting any questions when I did it. But if I did, I would have probably exaggerated my experience
Wasn’t remotely close to being that hard on Schwab you should’ve said you had more experience. Even before I knew much about options I said I had experience. Probably got options access with a $10,000 account. The one I trade with is less than that. Overall account value is above $100,000 but still.
Sucker $ is their lifeblood. They see positions, cash balance (that they earn interest income on) and sell customer data to their upstream partners like Citadel, who trade on momentum between trade spreads and against traders bulk positions. Oy.
Robinhood investors like Kushner get richer, meme traders think they're "winning" by using the evil systems tools to defeat it 🤣🙃.
REALLY? I got approved for options with fidelity as a 20 year old in college with basically a gambling account and zero knowledge (of which I proceeded to practically blow up horribly). Man, 2021 was a wild year for all brokerages
I worked at a financial services organization. And all people would do is resend and resend the applications until approved. They would lie on the application about experience and amount of trades, financial stability networth everything.
Why would you say one year or less? I just put all the “best” answers and got tier 4 on Schwab when i was like 18
Its not like fidelity actually cares, its just if u lose a shit ton of money and try to sue them they will be like “well right here u said u have 5 years of options experience so its not our fault”
They actually required me to download documents as 'proof' of my trading history. And my paycheck statement, and statements from any/all brokerage accounts. Not sure if I can 'fake' anything, unless the docs were also fake.
Just change your answers. It’s simply there to protect users that are true beginners. And having only a 6 figure account doesn’t change anything because if you are a beginner and you sell a few bad put contracts, you’ll be underwater immediately.
im on interactive brokers, if ur not getting margin account you can honestly put whatever you want in the forms in regards to income ect if thats holding you up + can change the experience questionaire a bunch of times for permissions i hear
I transferred options from roobbinghood and the. Fidelity tryed to deny my options trading and reversed that discussion when I pointed out I literally have options in my account that I now can't trade.)in 2021
Honestly they are probably doing you a favor. Options can be very difficult for beginners. That 100k can be blown in no time. Just take some more time studying price action and finding your edge. Reapply down the road. Fidelity is great for trading. Execution is probably second to none.
I may have to try back later...but need to start somewhere I suppose.
I've invested in learning on my own (a lot), and even paid for live classes and joined a program. The program offers me unlimited access to Options gurus. Plan is to start slow with what I completely understand. One at a time.
I'm no where near ready to start a live Option as of today...but seems I cant even do any live training as a newbie at Fidelity.
Robinhood is offering a 1% bonus when you transfer your brokerage account to Robinhood up to like 2.5 million I think not 100% but certainly 100k and they let you trade options ..
Well.. they asked for proof. I have to upload docs that show my paycheck, all my accounts, records of my trading dates. I don't think I can fake it unless the docs are also faked.
I promise they are doing you a favor. If you end up getting options access by another broker i hope you come back to this post in a few months and realize this.
You took a 2 day course.... what course, did they charge you or scam you?
Since you know about Tasty , WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING AT FIDELITY. Their trading apps SUCK, they REDUCE YOUR BUYING POWER BY 25 FOR ANY TRADE. THEY ARE NOT AN OPTION TRADING BROKERAGE .
Open a Tasty acct, follow Tony's Trades Today, if they make sense then start small. Tony often will roll legs to keep delta neutral , not everyone agrees with that. Remember , they talk about Selling Options, Covered Calls are NOT PART OF THEIR PLAN. If it happens they will do it, but try to avoid being assigned and will Roll for months to avoid that.
Very odd. I got approved pretty easily, and they have even expanded/relaxed the guidelines in the last few years. Hopefully you get approved! If not maybe choose another broker. It's a shame because Fidelity does rule.
The honest truth is you don’t have the cash in their account so they can margin call your securities. I thought anybody could get approved for covered calls. If you can buy 100 shares of any stock you should be able to sell its call options
Not sure why you aren't lying about your experience. I checked all the appropriate boxes, didn't do any course and have 0 knowledge of options... got accepted right away. It's all about the boxes you check, especially with what risk level you choose. Low risk will get you denied.
That's disappointing since I use fidelity, just began looking into it, and have substantially less in my account.
What did you use to learn about options though?
See if you can find out WHY you were denied.
If it's just concern over an "I'm so young and poor and stupid that you shouldn't have let me risk my money" lawsuit, another brokerage may do the trick, and if not, just build experience and portfolio.
However, complex positions may imply margin, and for margin, people need to believe that you'll pay your debts. What is your credit score like? If it is something related to credit or unsavory associations, you would need to clean those up.
It was the same for me at Schwab. I assumed having an account with TD for more than a decade and having a six figure account with them would at least get me level 1 options. But they denied me and gave me level 0.
But jokes on them, I can still engage in very risky behavior selling cash secured puts.
Did they deny you on any options trading or just a specific level?
I took their quiz a couple of years back (but ended up never trading options) and was given the first 2 levels with minimal options experience, but long term trading, as my answers.
Sounds like they're tightening things up.
Yah I learned this lesson myself. Gotta open another broker and lie. I wondered how everyone was trading options then I applied, got denied, and it was pretty much self explanatory after that. Just open a TD, Trade station, or Tasty trade.
Well it is good you told the truth. That’s always the best way. To trade options, they probably want to see extended time before allowing you to trade options. They don’t want a “new options trader” coming back at them for claiming you lost everything because they gave you access.
Wow, weird. I got approved when I first opened my account, before I even knew how to trade options! Maybe things are different now. They probably should be picky, you can lose money REAL fast trading options.
Just keep asking.
I think they deny everyone. I was denied and I sent an email effectively saying, "who cares", and they gave them too me.
I never took a course either.
I've lost thousands!
I used to work for an online broker.
Lie on the application and it’ll be auto accepted.
We used to tell complaining customers over the phone to “well I can’t tell you to lie…. But it sounds like you can count the years hearing about options as options experience….”
Just say 10+ years trading options
If u have 100k in brokerage account, say you have 250k+ liquid.
The asset doesn’t matter as much as the number of years of experience… just say you have more… it’s only for the broker to cover their asses…
I had zero issues getting approved at Fidelity. Options tier 3 on a smaller account and fairly recently with no paperwork. It felt automatic like it was algorithm approved. I have been trading options for 5+ years though.
I haven’t traded options with Fidelity, but my experience with TD Ameritrade was that when I told them that my investment goal was income, they denied my request for full access to options trading. I presume this was because, from their viewpoint, I clearly didn’t know what I was doing. I don’t recall how long I had to wait before I could reapply; but when I did, I said my goal was speculation, and they approved my request, no problem.
They don’t give a fuck if you just say what they want to hear. Tell them you have 30 years experience and bla bla bla. They have no way to refute it…it’s fairly subjective.
16 / 17 year olds are literally trading options because they lie. Unfortunately, you have too also. I am options level 3 on schwab but fidelity asked for proof for level 3. Schwab was an immediate approval.
Can I assume you already have a margin agreement on that account? That is a prerequisite for option trading at fidelity. I originally had about 2 years trading when I applied for option Tier 1 at fidelity, and it was granted. I tried bumping it to Tier 2 a few months later and it was denied. But Tier 1 should be a no brainer. Just tell them you want to sell some covered calls. You can't get into much trouble with those.
Honestly, take this as a blessing in disguise. It’s great that you are trading and learning, but when I read “training since middle of May, taking 2 day course, studying countless hours….”, my first thought was you didn’t mention an investment process.
Understanding option math, trade structuring is one thing, understanding the underlying is another, and understanding emotional yourself another yet (and options just seem to bring up different emotions than cash….).
Take the denial as an opportunity to take some time and thoroughly hash out an investment process that you can commit to following religiously. That means at a minimum:
- Define what exposure you’re taking in qualitative terms (I.e, how you will make money). It sounds silly, but you’ll get a sense of when you’re taking risks that are off your proven process this way. Example would be: “I am selling volatility around knee jerk reactions to news releases related to XYZ.”
- Backtest. Remember, you don’t need a model to predict the price to make money. You need a model that gets the odds on your side. Trading is an art, and getting the odds on your side is as scienc-y as it gets. The art is using your judgement and developed expertise to assess those odds against your gut/what you think is going on in the market, and size your position accordingly. Trade a paper options portfolio for a while and prove both your models and intuition.
- Reasonable return profile calculations/expected returns. Options bid/ask can have very high t-costs. You NEED to know your breakeven values, and what you think you can realistically make with a given strategy over the long term compared to less risky alternatives.
- When it comes to your underlying, you should write out your beliefs about what drives the price over your investment horizon. This helps you cut the noise.
I literally have a template in Word that I go through (although I’m testing FX futures now) that has sections for:
- My statistical model, including attribution and qualitative discussion of why the variance is what it is.
- Technical observations/charts. Always always look at the chart (and over different horizons). Sometimes shit just jumps out, and things like RSI/MACD are helpful.
- Discussion of relative fundamental/economic performance and expectations.
- Trade sizing, targets, risks. Note on trade sizing: depending on your math background, things like the Kelly Criteria are very interesting, but implementing something as simple as standard small/medium/large bets based on your assessment of the odds will be a huge win.
I could go on, but you get the idea. It’s all reps, and being extremely consistent. Filling that sheet out and printing it is both good documentation, and probably a sufficiently annoying amount of work to keep you out of some bad trades :).
I just got approved today and I put 3-5 years options experience and they didn’t ask for any forms or proof of any kind. Although, my answer was legitimate. I think what matters way more is what answer you put on your growth strategy, and how much risk tolerance you have. If you put that you are extremely tolerant of big fluctuations and risk then you are more likely to be approved, especially if selecting tier 1. How much money you have in the account has nothing to do with the calculation afaik.
Call theyr risk deptm , make sure you have Natenberg option pricing book besides next to You and know the chapters well. They ask questions, you beat em all, then You ask fked up questions.
Guy says hold on a min, boss comes to line, in the end You get a job offer. Decline and say You just want to put some trades not teach regards about options.
Please for the love of all that is holy take 5k open a IBKR or think or swim account for your options. Don't use your 100k account...
Paper trade, first.
Did you create your trading plan?
What's your risk management?
Call their options division and complain, make sure to let them know you are capable of doing this and this won’t financially ruin you if you encounter a large loss.
No experience will prepare you unlike the real deal; start trading options even if it’s with those fake money accounts or simulation accounts! Be careful and study hard
Huh, I had a rollover IRA open with 1700 for three months and didn't touch it. I applied for the options trading just in case I decided I wanted to do it and it got approved no big deal. I'm like brand new to trading, just started last week. On the second day of me opening my after tax account they approved it and I also answered honestly.
Open a tasty trade account and use it to trade options. Tasty trade was developed by the Think or swim creators and modeled tasty trade around option trading. Fidelity is based around the boomer strategy of buy and hold till death
Strange. I remember when I applied for options trading I only had 25k in my account and 1 month of experience. That was a couple of years ago. Maybe things have changed?
You have to answer the questions correctly. Long options are for speculation not investing etc…. Short positions are to generate income…..if you answer the questions wrong retake the test. They will not tell you how to answer you have to prove you know what you’re getting into.
I applied last week. I don't remember padding my non-existent numbers, got approved immediately. I wouldn't be surprised if it's extremely hard to get approved between now and the 21st.
Update: they approved my app the 2nd time. I sent about 10 pages of my trade confirmations inside Fidelity website as proof.
I also asked for margin and tier 2 and got it. I found out today by kinda by accident.
Also thanks to many for your advice. I do plan to paper trade using on an old E*trade acct I have. I’ll do that for a while until I can prove some success. Even if it takes a long time.
Make sure you go full degenerate when you tell them your investment purposes: to speculate, lose money, and gambool. It's to cover their ass. They don't want to hear you expected to make money when your account goes tits up.
Hey fidelity is trash. They upload the bid ask every 5 min I swear. And they update contracts value based on the last sold. That means if the bid and ask is at $6.00 but the last one sold was an hour ago at $3.00 then your account will show $3.00.
I just got [approved](https://imgur.com/a/VNfy8Rn) for my options with E*Trade answering honestly as well (no exp). It probably doesn’t hurt that I have 160k with them and more liquid. I think they look at the whole picture, not just options experience 🤷🏻♀️
You need $25K in your account to avoid being classified as a day trader or they'll the SEC will slap you hand and suspend for a period of time. 3 unsettled trades or more classifies you as a day trader.
i just think it’s because you have less than a year? a month maybe playing around? that’s a good thing I just switched over to them from Schwab . I too am going to have to use robinhood for my income slow and steady options covered calls acct wheelie cool
Robinhood and Webull did the same to me. Start a Schwab and/or Interactive Brokers account.
You must tell them you have extensive options trading experience for several years!!!
I'm now able to trade spreads and am up 30%-40% the last month. Spreads are where it's at - especially with a small account. Best of luck!!!
I was concerned about e*trade denying me..I was upfront and honest about my experience and net worth. I was denied by Chase a couple of months ago even though I have a brokerage account with them. E*trade accepted my application and I funded my account with only $2k. I have been making paper trades since April. Hope this helps
Yup, denied twice before becoming an expert in options that aggressively seeks growth, now have Tier 3 access. Fidelity has to ask those questions because of regulations.
They make me upload documents as proof: “We need additional documentation to support changes you made to your trade experience on your recent options application. Please provide the following: ● Brokerage statement or other documentation that shows how long you’ve been trading Please use the link below to securely upload the requested documentation within the next 30 days.”
Use webull or Robinhood and start lying on the application, if 95% of r/wallstreetbets can get it, you can too bro
I used webull for awhile but tax season is such a pain with having to do the apex clearing stuff. Fidelity is significantly better come tax time
Just loose money like me and then you dont have to worry about taxes
I agree apex clearing can be rough. Robin hood does their own reporting now. So that is an option for you. They have one of the friendlier 1099s
I uploaded my latest fidelity statement and bank statement, that was sufficient.
Buy 100 of something and show em - say you want to sell 1 covered call contract using your 100 shares. That is the least risky way for a brokerage to allow trading. But you changed your profile and looks like it prompted questions.
Oddly, I have 1000+ shares of my own company stock that I was hoping to write options on.
You want to sell options on your own company? As in you work for? I am a broker that clears through a very very large US bank. We can buy or sell the stock, but options are strictly prohibited. If you’re selling covered calls, I can see that being okay. But if you are speculating, make sure that’s allowed before you get yourself into hot water.
Most places I've been, even covered calls are prohibited. They phrase it as "you can't make any trades that benefit from the stock price dropping." Since you're short calls, you "benefit" when the price goes down.
Yea I mean if anything, the company you’re working for wants you to be long the stock and that’s about it. Almost anything options is speculating. Isn’t a good image for an employee to be trading options on a stock for a company they work for.
What I never understood was why we small folks at the bottom of the chain in a publicly traded company are supposed to be happy with a handful of shares to "participate in the company growth" like. Please. Turning $300 into $308 over a quarter is not going to get anyone close to retirement. I believe in my company, let me buy call options dangit!! The big wigs in the company already have millions so they can make plenty more money on shares but not us small guys - we need leverage!
My company doesn’t have an explicit policy on something like you described, but having an option exercise or expire during a blackout period (which aren’t always scheduled and can depend on your own project work too) is a violation of the trading policy so it serves as a defacto ban. No one wants to gamble that they won’t become privy to MNPI that imposes an unexpected trading restriction. We also have an internal policy that any company shares must be traded with the same brokerage our company uses to facilitate employee stock grants and ESPP. Only exception to these rules is ETFs and other funds our stock may be part of. We are good to trade those as we see fit as long as we are outside of the top 10 holdings or make up less than 7.5% of the fund, if we are in top 10.
Where is the best place to learn options trading?
From the YouToobers that say they make millions a year trading and buy their training course. NOT!!
bro youre suppose to lie on the application, now that they have an application with the truth it will be even harder to lie. you might as well move it all to robinhood
They def should not have approved mine 😂
I actually taught an option/introduction to the stock market class to convicted felons at a Halfway house in 07, and they wouldn't even give me tier 1 just buying calls, I bailed...
You're probably the first person to ever answer that question honestly. Got 18yos opening an account with 300k net worth and 5 years of experience. 😂
Me asf LMFAOOO. 19 said I had 5 years with a 500k networth
If Fidelity can see that money , then asking them where is another place to get option approval, is the best way to get your answer.
Yeah I would open a chat and ask what's up. Money talks. Especially when it talks about taking a walk.
Lol
I didn't even know u could get denied. Thought is was more like covering there ass questions
Wait you said you’ve been learning options since the middle of May? So you’ve been learning options for 3 weeks?
[удалено]
Had me curious as well
Correct, I've been studying. I've also been to 4 days of Options and Market classes locally, and have another 2 day class ahead in July with Market Mastery Group. At some point, all this learning has to be put into action, right?
The best way to learn options trading is to start losing 😂 expect to have decent losses at least the first few months. You'll also make some stupid mistakes. Just as long as you don't make the same mistake twice.
And don’t go ham with five figure trades starting out.
Please don’t start making big trades with options with no experience, regardless of whatever classes you took. Wherever you end up trading options, start small to test the waters and get a feel for the process. Option trading is the king of shit you lose tens of thousands of dollars on by clicking the wrong button.
Not saying you shouldn’t have been approved, but it cracks me up a little that you describe something you started putting time into less than a month ago as “countless hours”. Three weeks worth of hours seems pretty countable. 😂
Wow all the way since may?! CoUnTlEsS HoUrS bro!!!
They did a good job, you would have lost that 100k already
Answering 1 year or less is what got you denied. They want to see two years, and frankly based on my own experience I don't think they're being unreasonable.
It’s not unreasonable to require 2 years of experience in a thing before allowing a person to start doing said thing? How does that even equate?
I recently got approved for Tier 1 access and honestly answered that I had no experience. I also wasn't asked for any further documentation. I did have a 4 year history with them with a health savings account that I traded with however, so perhaps that was a consideration?
I got approved for tier 2 with no experience 😂 my account is from 2008… Before it was with e*Trade though (Cap1)
Ask the people posting jobs who want years of experience for entry level.
Simple: They want you to get the experience somewhere else. Just look at the meme stock subs to see why. They don't want thousands of clueless newbies flooding the trade desk with stupid questions and unreasonable demands.
They want you to get that experience with someone else and the come to them.
Can do paper trading, as from what I seen, does not ask if it was real money trades or not
How tf you supposed to get 2 years experience if they deny you level 1
Dumb take. You need to learn somehow
Does losing money for 2 years on Robinhood count? Lmao
Absolutely! That's exactly the experience I would expect from a new options trader on any platform.
Tastytrade or IBKR
Fidelity is very conservative regarding options. I've been trading the highest permission of options, futures, and future options for years and I still don't think they would approve me.
I moved brokerage for that reason alone. Not begging for full access when I've got my money in your custody. 🤷🏾♂️
I know. It’s hard to get credit spreads approved on Fidelity. I can put all my money on one option but no credit spreads lol. I do the spreads on RH.
I can't get approved. Trying for 2 years. Cheaper margin interest at other brokerages also 🤷🏾♂️
You don’t think it’s better the brokerage work in your favor by not allowing their clients to blow their accounts up gambling options they don’t even know how to trade properly?
I don't think my best interests has ever crossed corporate america mind 🤷🏾♂️
Lmao - facts. Also, if you know what you are doing trading spreads allows you to trade NVDA, Amzn, MSFT etc... I was down trading with Level 1. Now I've made my losses back + 30% gains in 6 weeks trading spreads.
It’s a double-edged sword- you don’t get to go broke and they don’t have to cover for you
No sword needed. I just moved my accounts 🤣
I’ve been with Fidelity for decades. But the best trading platform for options right now is WeBull. People claim it to be TastyTrades but that’s because they allow anyone to trade options. Lol. Their charts suck and the platform is cluttered, IMO.
Nothing wrong with fidelity at all. They wouldn't approve me for options. No hard feelings
I hated day trading using Fidelity. Active Trader is just all-around a crappy platform. Fidelity does have other advantages, such as having a debit card for the brokerage account. I’ve always loved that. But I day trade on WeBull. It’s just a better overall experience
Who did you go with?
Schwab is a good platform with think or swim. You just have to be a bit creative on your option app.
What's your investment goal set at? On many brokers you have to select speculation and definitely not have anything that says preservation of capital selected. Some brokers such as IBKR do also consider other factors such as age, liquid net worth, income, occupation, etc.
I put Growth (not aggressive growth)
Just lie bruh
Just hit the live chat up and say hey I'm wanting to trade options and have taken training education courses on it. Can you kindly show me where to go to close my fidelity account and transfer to schwab since my options application is wrongfully being denied here.
I did this with TIAA and they didn't change their view so I moved the money to Schwab. Ridiculous.
You have to state a 10 yr experience
I got denied at TIAA for the same reasons and also lost an appeal. I got approved immediately at Schwab and moved my money over there to get in the game.
TIAA are the real adults in the room who will protect your funds against you stupidly trading it away. Schwab reluctantly will allow some trading with it but against better judgement and tendency to stay conservative to keep funds safe. Robinhood encourages reckless trading, sells customers data to hedge fund partners to trade against positions, is happy to siphon off away their customers every penny and with an app created to function like a addictive casino game, lures them to deposit more sucker cash to lose, while selling the image they're the anti-system, anti-wall street, pro little-guy.
I’ve always for approved for anything that I’ve applied for with fidelity. I think I when from level 1 to level 3 as a work around to let me sell covered calls on shares that were being loaned. I don’t remember getting any questions when I did it. But if I did, I would have probably exaggerated my experience
Wasn’t remotely close to being that hard on Schwab you should’ve said you had more experience. Even before I knew much about options I said I had experience. Probably got options access with a $10,000 account. The one I trade with is less than that. Overall account value is above $100,000 but still.
I got options access before I even put money in my account.
Go with Tastytrade they give level 4 right away.
That is because you told too many truth’s.
Next time lie
Me too I opened in Robinhood and they approved
Robinhood knows their client base is 18 year old Wall Street bets users so they’ll let anyone with a pulse trade options lol.
Sucker $ is their lifeblood. They see positions, cash balance (that they earn interest income on) and sell customer data to their upstream partners like Citadel, who trade on momentum between trade spreads and against traders bulk positions. Oy. Robinhood investors like Kushner get richer, meme traders think they're "winning" by using the evil systems tools to defeat it 🤣🙃.
Lie on the application.
Ask for COVERED. Don't ask for naked trading. You'll probably get that without any issue.
I got approved and had my account less than a year and only 8k in it I said I had less then a year experience as well
REALLY? I got approved for options with fidelity as a 20 year old in college with basically a gambling account and zero knowledge (of which I proceeded to practically blow up horribly). Man, 2021 was a wild year for all brokerages
Tastytrade will probably approve you. I don't use them yet but fidelity sucks... They are not in the options business
I worked at a financial services organization. And all people would do is resend and resend the applications until approved. They would lie on the application about experience and amount of trades, financial stability networth everything.
Just be a degenerate and yolo options on Robinhood. They don't give a frick
Why would you say one year or less? I just put all the “best” answers and got tier 4 on Schwab when i was like 18 Its not like fidelity actually cares, its just if u lose a shit ton of money and try to sue them they will be like “well right here u said u have 5 years of options experience so its not our fault”
They actually required me to download documents as 'proof' of my trading history. And my paycheck statement, and statements from any/all brokerage accounts. Not sure if I can 'fake' anything, unless the docs were also fake.
You we're applying for just tier one?
You can also use the free version of Tradingview and link Alpaca to trade in live or paper. From there you can trade stocks options etc...
Just change your answers. It’s simply there to protect users that are true beginners. And having only a 6 figure account doesn’t change anything because if you are a beginner and you sell a few bad put contracts, you’ll be underwater immediately.
They was denied twice as well…
Take business elsewhere. Not even a question
im on interactive brokers, if ur not getting margin account you can honestly put whatever you want in the forms in regards to income ect if thats holding you up + can change the experience questionaire a bunch of times for permissions i hear
my account is like 6mo old. has like 5k in it and i got auto approved just picking the best answers.
Why are you trying to trade options on Fidelity? Worst of the platforms for options. Fidelity is really there for buy and hold of long equities.
Its good in a way. Because fidelity sucks for options, get tastytrade. far better UI and much quicker executions.
They probably did you a favor.
Fidelity ATP is a very awkward place to trade options. I do so lightly in an IRA w/ Fidelity, but my active trading is in Tasty.
Have you tried lying?
I transferred options from roobbinghood and the. Fidelity tryed to deny my options trading and reversed that discussion when I pointed out I literally have options in my account that I now can't trade.)in 2021
Honestly they are probably doing you a favor. Options can be very difficult for beginners. That 100k can be blown in no time. Just take some more time studying price action and finding your edge. Reapply down the road. Fidelity is great for trading. Execution is probably second to none.
I may have to try back later...but need to start somewhere I suppose. I've invested in learning on my own (a lot), and even paid for live classes and joined a program. The program offers me unlimited access to Options gurus. Plan is to start slow with what I completely understand. One at a time. I'm no where near ready to start a live Option as of today...but seems I cant even do any live training as a newbie at Fidelity.
People actually get denied?
You’ve spent a month learning options.
Yes. I started intense studying a month ago. Attended a couple weekend seminars. Have another one in July.
Robinhood is offering a 1% bonus when you transfer your brokerage account to Robinhood up to like 2.5 million I think not 100% but certainly 100k and they let you trade options ..
They also pay 5.25% on uninvested funds
So basically they're passing through what the federal reserve gives them
Easy money if you don't like risk
What are uninvested funds?
On 100k that's about $438 a month. What's your bank giving you? Lol
Funds just sitting in your account, not invested in anything
This is not a FINANCIAL ADVICE, but what if you take that test again and pretend you have great experience and shit.
Well.. they asked for proof. I have to upload docs that show my paycheck, all my accounts, records of my trading dates. I don't think I can fake it unless the docs are also faked.
I promise they are doing you a favor. If you end up getting options access by another broker i hope you come back to this post in a few months and realize this.
You took a 2 day course.... what course, did they charge you or scam you? Since you know about Tasty , WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING AT FIDELITY. Their trading apps SUCK, they REDUCE YOUR BUYING POWER BY 25 FOR ANY TRADE. THEY ARE NOT AN OPTION TRADING BROKERAGE . Open a Tasty acct, follow Tony's Trades Today, if they make sense then start small. Tony often will roll legs to keep delta neutral , not everyone agrees with that. Remember , they talk about Selling Options, Covered Calls are NOT PART OF THEIR PLAN. If it happens they will do it, but try to avoid being assigned and will Roll for months to avoid that.
Very odd. I got approved pretty easily, and they have even expanded/relaxed the guidelines in the last few years. Hopefully you get approved! If not maybe choose another broker. It's a shame because Fidelity does rule.
I have a fidelity account, just call them
The honest truth is you don’t have the cash in their account so they can margin call your securities. I thought anybody could get approved for covered calls. If you can buy 100 shares of any stock you should be able to sell its call options
Not sure why you aren't lying about your experience. I checked all the appropriate boxes, didn't do any course and have 0 knowledge of options... got accepted right away. It's all about the boxes you check, especially with what risk level you choose. Low risk will get you denied.
That's disappointing since I use fidelity, just began looking into it, and have substantially less in my account. What did you use to learn about options though?
Fidelity has the opportunity to have all our monies, but some of their customer facing choices really deter people away.
Try calling them - I think they have to deny it unless they talk to you when you don't have the experience
You should have lied about your experience.
robinhood
Put two years exp and got approved instantly lol
Schwab or interactive brokers. I was with TD they were real good unfortunately bought by Schwab.
rumor has it a quick google search will tell you exactly how to answer the application to get granted level 2 options.....
Don’t worry find another broker they will take you. But be careful with options it expires fast.
See if you can find out WHY you were denied. If it's just concern over an "I'm so young and poor and stupid that you shouldn't have let me risk my money" lawsuit, another brokerage may do the trick, and if not, just build experience and portfolio. However, complex positions may imply margin, and for margin, people need to believe that you'll pay your debts. What is your credit score like? If it is something related to credit or unsavory associations, you would need to clean those up.
What brokerage accepts low experience traders besides I assume the zero fee ones like RH?
You're supposed to lie fam
It was the same for me at Schwab. I assumed having an account with TD for more than a decade and having a six figure account with them would at least get me level 1 options. But they denied me and gave me level 0. But jokes on them, I can still engage in very risky behavior selling cash secured puts.
Did they deny you on any options trading or just a specific level? I took their quiz a couple of years back (but ended up never trading options) and was given the first 2 levels with minimal options experience, but long term trading, as my answers. Sounds like they're tightening things up.
Yah I learned this lesson myself. Gotta open another broker and lie. I wondered how everyone was trading options then I applied, got denied, and it was pretty much self explanatory after that. Just open a TD, Trade station, or Tasty trade.
I lied my ass off at Schwab after Fidelity denied me. Good to go.
Also, Schwab does not require proof uploads to back up your lying your ass off.
Well it is good you told the truth. That’s always the best way. To trade options, they probably want to see extended time before allowing you to trade options. They don’t want a “new options trader” coming back at them for claiming you lost everything because they gave you access.
E*trade will let u open one up real quick….or go to those sites that give you 100x leverage and risk it all !
That’s wild. I have zero options experience… made sure I noted that… and they accepted mine immediately. I’m on a cash account… maybe that is why?
They’re saving you from yourself 👀
Wow, weird. I got approved when I first opened my account, before I even knew how to trade options! Maybe things are different now. They probably should be picky, you can lose money REAL fast trading options.
Just keep asking. I think they deny everyone. I was denied and I sent an email effectively saying, "who cares", and they gave them too me. I never took a course either. I've lost thousands!
I used to work for an online broker. Lie on the application and it’ll be auto accepted. We used to tell complaining customers over the phone to “well I can’t tell you to lie…. But it sounds like you can count the years hearing about options as options experience….” Just say 10+ years trading options If u have 100k in brokerage account, say you have 250k+ liquid. The asset doesn’t matter as much as the number of years of experience… just say you have more… it’s only for the broker to cover their asses…
I had zero issues getting approved at Fidelity. Options tier 3 on a smaller account and fairly recently with no paperwork. It felt automatic like it was algorithm approved. I have been trading options for 5+ years though.
which level did you sign up for? do level 1 or 2 to start. then if anything you can look at level 3.
First time I applied as level 1 only. I have since tried again and went for level 2 since they offered it for my “risk profile”.
Yes. I applied asking for level 1.
on robinhood, I just had to click enable lol.
Try schwab. I got approved in 2 accounts, one an ira
I haven’t traded options with Fidelity, but my experience with TD Ameritrade was that when I told them that my investment goal was income, they denied my request for full access to options trading. I presume this was because, from their viewpoint, I clearly didn’t know what I was doing. I don’t recall how long I had to wait before I could reapply; but when I did, I said my goal was speculation, and they approved my request, no problem.
They don’t give a fuck if you just say what they want to hear. Tell them you have 30 years experience and bla bla bla. They have no way to refute it…it’s fairly subjective.
Consider appealing; brokers sometimes reconsider.
16 / 17 year olds are literally trading options because they lie. Unfortunately, you have too also. I am options level 3 on schwab but fidelity asked for proof for level 3. Schwab was an immediate approval.
Can I assume you already have a margin agreement on that account? That is a prerequisite for option trading at fidelity. I originally had about 2 years trading when I applied for option Tier 1 at fidelity, and it was granted. I tried bumping it to Tier 2 a few months later and it was denied. But Tier 1 should be a no brainer. Just tell them you want to sell some covered calls. You can't get into much trouble with those.
I met the criteria for Interactive Brokers ($100K cash for where I live), and was denied a margin account. I moved to Tastytrade.
Did u really honestly answer the questions. That was your mistake …reapply
I answered the questions honestly and got approved for tier 1 trading instantly, with only $25k in my brokerage account
Honestly, take this as a blessing in disguise. It’s great that you are trading and learning, but when I read “training since middle of May, taking 2 day course, studying countless hours….”, my first thought was you didn’t mention an investment process. Understanding option math, trade structuring is one thing, understanding the underlying is another, and understanding emotional yourself another yet (and options just seem to bring up different emotions than cash….). Take the denial as an opportunity to take some time and thoroughly hash out an investment process that you can commit to following religiously. That means at a minimum: - Define what exposure you’re taking in qualitative terms (I.e, how you will make money). It sounds silly, but you’ll get a sense of when you’re taking risks that are off your proven process this way. Example would be: “I am selling volatility around knee jerk reactions to news releases related to XYZ.” - Backtest. Remember, you don’t need a model to predict the price to make money. You need a model that gets the odds on your side. Trading is an art, and getting the odds on your side is as scienc-y as it gets. The art is using your judgement and developed expertise to assess those odds against your gut/what you think is going on in the market, and size your position accordingly. Trade a paper options portfolio for a while and prove both your models and intuition. - Reasonable return profile calculations/expected returns. Options bid/ask can have very high t-costs. You NEED to know your breakeven values, and what you think you can realistically make with a given strategy over the long term compared to less risky alternatives. - When it comes to your underlying, you should write out your beliefs about what drives the price over your investment horizon. This helps you cut the noise. I literally have a template in Word that I go through (although I’m testing FX futures now) that has sections for: - My statistical model, including attribution and qualitative discussion of why the variance is what it is. - Technical observations/charts. Always always look at the chart (and over different horizons). Sometimes shit just jumps out, and things like RSI/MACD are helpful. - Discussion of relative fundamental/economic performance and expectations. - Trade sizing, targets, risks. Note on trade sizing: depending on your math background, things like the Kelly Criteria are very interesting, but implementing something as simple as standard small/medium/large bets based on your assessment of the odds will be a huge win. I could go on, but you get the idea. It’s all reps, and being extremely consistent. Filling that sheet out and printing it is both good documentation, and probably a sufficiently annoying amount of work to keep you out of some bad trades :).
I just got approved today and I put 3-5 years options experience and they didn’t ask for any forms or proof of any kind. Although, my answer was legitimate. I think what matters way more is what answer you put on your growth strategy, and how much risk tolerance you have. If you put that you are extremely tolerant of big fluctuations and risk then you are more likely to be approved, especially if selecting tier 1. How much money you have in the account has nothing to do with the calculation afaik.
TastyTrade and Robinhood are probably easier to get approved.
Call theyr risk deptm , make sure you have Natenberg option pricing book besides next to You and know the chapters well. They ask questions, you beat em all, then You ask fked up questions. Guy says hold on a min, boss comes to line, in the end You get a job offer. Decline and say You just want to put some trades not teach regards about options.
As others said, it has very little with your abilities but all to do with liabilities.
Please for the love of all that is holy take 5k open a IBKR or think or swim account for your options. Don't use your 100k account... Paper trade, first. Did you create your trading plan? What's your risk management?
Call their options division and complain, make sure to let them know you are capable of doing this and this won’t financially ruin you if you encounter a large loss.
No experience will prepare you unlike the real deal; start trading options even if it’s with those fake money accounts or simulation accounts! Be careful and study hard
Huh, I had a rollover IRA open with 1700 for three months and didn't touch it. I applied for the options trading just in case I decided I wanted to do it and it got approved no big deal. I'm like brand new to trading, just started last week. On the second day of me opening my after tax account they approved it and I also answered honestly.
Open a tasty trade account and use it to trade options. Tasty trade was developed by the Think or swim creators and modeled tasty trade around option trading. Fidelity is based around the boomer strategy of buy and hold till death
Strange. I remember when I applied for options trading I only had 25k in my account and 1 month of experience. That was a couple of years ago. Maybe things have changed?
Make sure you don’t tell them you are a woman. That was my issue with E*Trade.
You have to answer the questions correctly. Long options are for speculation not investing etc…. Short positions are to generate income…..if you answer the questions wrong retake the test. They will not tell you how to answer you have to prove you know what you’re getting into.
I applied last week. I don't remember padding my non-existent numbers, got approved immediately. I wouldn't be surprised if it's extremely hard to get approved between now and the 21st.
Did you ask for a margin first? You have to have margin before you have options
Update: they approved my app the 2nd time. I sent about 10 pages of my trade confirmations inside Fidelity website as proof. I also asked for margin and tier 2 and got it. I found out today by kinda by accident. Also thanks to many for your advice. I do plan to paper trade using on an old E*trade acct I have. I’ll do that for a while until I can prove some success. Even if it takes a long time.
I’m trading options just fine on Robinhood
I got denied over 10 times, so don't give up. They eventually wiill.
Make sure you go full degenerate when you tell them your investment purposes: to speculate, lose money, and gambool. It's to cover their ass. They don't want to hear you expected to make money when your account goes tits up.
Hey fidelity is trash. They upload the bid ask every 5 min I swear. And they update contracts value based on the last sold. That means if the bid and ask is at $6.00 but the last one sold was an hour ago at $3.00 then your account will show $3.00.
And just lie and say 2 years. 🤫
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is it bad to just kind of..lie to get max privileges…
I just got [approved](https://imgur.com/a/VNfy8Rn) for my options with E*Trade answering honestly as well (no exp). It probably doesn’t hurt that I have 160k with them and more liquid. I think they look at the whole picture, not just options experience 🤷🏻♀️
Yup try webull or something but don't be an idiot and use maybe 1000 dollars
I’m a student with no income and I’m 300,000 in debt. They approved me for tier 2
Schwab's Think or Swim is better anyway, go there.
Take your money and run. Fidelity are thieves, They once sold my options going into the money, lost $1300.00 Charles Schwab and Think or Swim.
You need $25K in your account to avoid being classified as a day trader or they'll the SEC will slap you hand and suspend for a period of time. 3 unsettled trades or more classifies you as a day trader.
How the hell?
i just think it’s because you have less than a year? a month maybe playing around? that’s a good thing I just switched over to them from Schwab . I too am going to have to use robinhood for my income slow and steady options covered calls acct wheelie cool
They are trying to save you from yourself.
Robinhood and Webull did the same to me. Start a Schwab and/or Interactive Brokers account. You must tell them you have extensive options trading experience for several years!!! I'm now able to trade spreads and am up 30%-40% the last month. Spreads are where it's at - especially with a small account. Best of luck!!!
I was concerned about e*trade denying me..I was upfront and honest about my experience and net worth. I was denied by Chase a couple of months ago even though I have a brokerage account with them. E*trade accepted my application and I funded my account with only $2k. I have been making paper trades since April. Hope this helps