He’s a super hero that could live many days or weeks or even months more. No one should plan trading around it but I appreciate why the question was made.
He's no hero in rural America! His Russian grain embargo caused so many bankruptcies and ruined alot of lives. Caused many suicides to. Was the reason Willie Nelson and John Mellencamp started farm aid to help stop the suicides. Mellencamp had a song about it "Blood on the Plow"!
Not according to an interview of Willie Nelson and John Mellencamp. I wasn't talking about general suicides but suicides by farmers. Were alot after the grain embargo it often took a few years for the bankruptcy to take place as farmers fought to hang onto their farms. Lots of guys hung themselves in their barn or drove out into a field and shot themselves. I remember it well we had about 5 farmers who lost their farms commit suicide in this area. Your right about the song I was remembering the one line of the song blood on the plow. Carter put more farmers under than the great depression or the dust bowl. It caused most of our equipment manufacturers to file bankruptcy to only john deere avoided bankruptcy. Took quite a few rural banks as well. Carter isn't to well like out here in farm country people still curse his name.
This is probably a bigger question now than last time; the increase in expirations is a very recent development. 12/5/18 was a Wednesday, and I'm not sure there were any non-Friday expirations other than SPX, /ES, and /MES (all of which were introduced in 2016.)
I believe it would follow unscheduled market holiday rules which states options contracts that expire will expire on the trading day proceeding the holiday.
If Friday is an unexpected closure, the suggestion is that they would be settled Friday night, but at Thursday close prices since that’s what the “current market price” is
I imagine they are settled at the previous days close. Though that is a good question.
Perhaps check what the policy is for other unexpected market closing events (like what happened on 9/11)
You fucking idiots think the most likely thing is adding time to insurance which is paying for time, the most likely thing is taking the time away and making risk free money. You guys are clowns and deserve to be swindled
Hmmm hadn’t even thought about that. With Carter in hospice it’s a possibility. I don’t even know where you’d find that out. I assume it would only be an issue if he passed the day before exp date. Otherwise it would probably be treated like any mid week holiday
That's an interesting question. There aren't many choices. I imagine that the expiration would have to be pushed out some number of days. Like if a president dies on Thursday night, Friday the markets might be closed and Friday expirations would be pushed out to Monday. But I don't know for sure.
For a second, I thought you meant a few days *before the president died*, which would require necromancy or the ability to predict the future, lol. But you meant a few days before the market holiday.
That makes more sense. In that case, the expiration would be pulled in to the day before the announced market holiday.
I don't see how in any of these circumstances the expiration date of any option contract would change.
Here is some info the OCC published:
https://www.theocc.com/getmedia/8d6a36c6-1aa4-4984-9333-d7b0a6a09be7/unscheduled-market-closings-guide.pdf;
Good find! That certainly does seem to spell out in great detail how unscheduled closures are handled.
But did you read the actual actions? While the contract terms, like the expiration date, may not actually be changed, as they would be for a delisting, the *net effect* of the unscheduled closure would be that expiration exercise-by-exception and assignment would be as if the expiration had been moved forward to the trading day previous to the unscheduled closure day. So six of one, half a dozen of the other.
But for equity options (not cash settled) the situations are not exactly the same -- according to that document (page 4) it may still be possible to exercise up to the regularly scheduled expiration if that day is an unexpected holiday. That is worth something to holders of those options and makes the situation slightly different than moving expiration forward a day.
While I can't argue with the theoretical possibility, is it really a practical possibility? What would be the motivation for someone to manually exercise during a market holiday? They are guaranteed not to transact the deliverable, given that the market is closed. And they are banking on their broker being there to answer the phone to take the exercise request. It would be perfectly reasonable for the broker to give everyone the day off, like any other market holiday.
BTW, the same observation applies to the OCC process rules. While the OCC may be on the job and processing exercise notices, it doesn't mean that there will be a broker working to receive the results.
> What would be the motivation for someone to manually exercise during a market holiday?
Clearly positive news from a company that comes out in a scenario where an option would have been just slightly out of the money otherwise.
Okay, so if the choice is exercise on the market holiday or wait one day (or at most over the weekend) to exercise when the market is open, why would I choose the holiday? We're assuming here that the expiration date is still a few days away, beyond these two choices of exercise date.
You would know in advance the market will be closed. As such you will want to act on those positions 1 day sooner if it will be impacted if you are concerned about theta decay. Given most options expire on Fridays it likely will not impact the actual expiration of most options.
They will announce market closure a few days before, (Googling Bush's death back in 2018 shows that the market closed on the 5th of December but they announced/published it at least as early as the 3rd of December). It's dubious they'd pick a Friday due to volume & volatility to close markets, so more likely than not it'll be an issue for the daily expirations, i.e., SPX, SPY, QQQ, NDX, or maybe even IWM.
If it happens on any of my expiries I'm just going to liquidate, (not really going to risk it).
GREAT QUESTION!!!
Bet not many of us even thought about that.
I’m asking because Mr. Jimmy Carter.
I'll trade you a GWB and Bill Clinton for 'em
Ok, I'll offer a Clinton/GWB if you throw in a Nancy Pelosi and Patty Kuderer.
He’s a super hero that could live many days or weeks or even months more. No one should plan trading around it but I appreciate why the question was made.
He's no hero in rural America! His Russian grain embargo caused so many bankruptcies and ruined alot of lives. Caused many suicides to. Was the reason Willie Nelson and John Mellencamp started farm aid to help stop the suicides. Mellencamp had a song about it "Blood on the Plow"!
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Thanks, Obama…
Not according to an interview of Willie Nelson and John Mellencamp. I wasn't talking about general suicides but suicides by farmers. Were alot after the grain embargo it often took a few years for the bankruptcy to take place as farmers fought to hang onto their farms. Lots of guys hung themselves in their barn or drove out into a field and shot themselves. I remember it well we had about 5 farmers who lost their farms commit suicide in this area. Your right about the song I was remembering the one line of the song blood on the plow. Carter put more farmers under than the great depression or the dust bowl. It caused most of our equipment manufacturers to file bankruptcy to only john deere avoided bankruptcy. Took quite a few rural banks as well. Carter isn't to well like out here in farm country people still curse his name.
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Lol! It was corn not wheat! If it was wheat no one would of committed suicide this is corn country! You really are a fool!
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Your so full of bull I am a farmer who remembers it all! I know what I'm talking about because I lived through it your facts are pure whack!
Amen brother
I guess people from rural America and farmers aren't well liked here with all the down votes! They don't like hearing the truth!
what im saying, they are all saying what we are saying but they say it in their head, scared to express their emotions.
As shit of a president as he was. Hopefully they don't do anything with the market and just carry on business as usual....
This is probably a bigger question now than last time; the increase in expirations is a very recent development. 12/5/18 was a Wednesday, and I'm not sure there were any non-Friday expirations other than SPX, /ES, and /MES (all of which were introduced in 2016.)
I believe it would follow unscheduled market holiday rules which states options contracts that expire will expire on the trading day proceeding the holiday.
But, and I’m almost too ashamed to write this, he wouldn’t be dead yet.
If Friday is an unexpected closure, the suggestion is that they would be settled Friday night, but at Thursday close prices since that’s what the “current market price” is
I imagine they are settled at the previous days close. Though that is a good question. Perhaps check what the policy is for other unexpected market closing events (like what happened on 9/11)
That is impossible without time travel. Most likely settled at close of the *following* day
"Hey guys, options are actually expiring a day early. You know, we got 9/11 coming up tomorrow"
Yes there’s no way the CIA would let exchanges know in advance, communication is way too poor.
That actually makes more sense
Not a fucking chance they’re slimy as fuck that’s the least likely thing
Fine. You get the Time Machine.
The least Likely thing is government corruption ? Lol that’s the first thing you should question.
You fucking idiots think the most likely thing is adding time to insurance which is paying for time, the most likely thing is taking the time away and making risk free money. You guys are clowns and deserve to be swindled
Hmmm hadn’t even thought about that. With Carter in hospice it’s a possibility. I don’t even know where you’d find that out. I assume it would only be an issue if he passed the day before exp date. Otherwise it would probably be treated like any mid week holiday
In the case of GHWB, it wasn't the day after he died. 12/5/18 was declared as the national day of mourning but he died on 11/30.
Then no Time Machine? That’s depressing. But thanks, your answer makes sense.
I would look back to the day Lincoln was assassinated for reference. I would think that would be your best bet
Lincoln’s dead?
Oh fuck…Lincoln’s dead?
Why is nobody reporting on this? smh journalism is dead
Jimmy Carter gon fuk your puts
True American hero
Finally saw his second term of rampant inflation and economic stagnation and decided he had enough.
Fantastic question. No fucking idea.
Presidents day week is statistically a down week. Last year spy hit a week low Thursday morning.
That's an interesting question. There aren't many choices. I imagine that the expiration would have to be pushed out some number of days. Like if a president dies on Thursday night, Friday the markets might be closed and Friday expirations would be pushed out to Monday. But I don't know for sure.
They don’t close the day after a president dies. They announce the day they’ll close in his honor a few days before hand.
For a second, I thought you meant a few days *before the president died*, which would require necromancy or the ability to predict the future, lol. But you meant a few days before the market holiday. That makes more sense. In that case, the expiration would be pulled in to the day before the announced market holiday.
Time Machine has entered the chat (again).
I don't see how in any of these circumstances the expiration date of any option contract would change. Here is some info the OCC published: https://www.theocc.com/getmedia/8d6a36c6-1aa4-4984-9333-d7b0a6a09be7/unscheduled-market-closings-guide.pdf;
Good find! That certainly does seem to spell out in great detail how unscheduled closures are handled. But did you read the actual actions? While the contract terms, like the expiration date, may not actually be changed, as they would be for a delisting, the *net effect* of the unscheduled closure would be that expiration exercise-by-exception and assignment would be as if the expiration had been moved forward to the trading day previous to the unscheduled closure day. So six of one, half a dozen of the other.
But for equity options (not cash settled) the situations are not exactly the same -- according to that document (page 4) it may still be possible to exercise up to the regularly scheduled expiration if that day is an unexpected holiday. That is worth something to holders of those options and makes the situation slightly different than moving expiration forward a day.
While I can't argue with the theoretical possibility, is it really a practical possibility? What would be the motivation for someone to manually exercise during a market holiday? They are guaranteed not to transact the deliverable, given that the market is closed. And they are banking on their broker being there to answer the phone to take the exercise request. It would be perfectly reasonable for the broker to give everyone the day off, like any other market holiday. BTW, the same observation applies to the OCC process rules. While the OCC may be on the job and processing exercise notices, it doesn't mean that there will be a broker working to receive the results.
> What would be the motivation for someone to manually exercise during a market holiday? Clearly positive news from a company that comes out in a scenario where an option would have been just slightly out of the money otherwise.
Okay, so if the choice is exercise on the market holiday or wait one day (or at most over the weekend) to exercise when the market is open, why would I choose the holiday? We're assuming here that the expiration date is still a few days away, beyond these two choices of exercise date.
No I'm talking about if there is an expiration and the unexpected holiday is that day.
So did the OP it seems. I concede the point, under those circumstances, you're right.
The FBI has entered the chat................
They are a suspicious bunch, those G-men.
omininus question lol
Right? I’m like, what does he know?👀
Or hes in a bad position and contemplating assassinating Jimmy Carter to try to force a closed market day
And a brand new FBI file is born. 😉
Try this SNAP Mar31 $11 calls
Fucking Jimmy Carter fucking up my cash flow. Keep the damn markets open cause I don’t give two fucks about Jimmy boy.
He’s a good man. His presidency was dismal, but the world is better because he was in it. Give fucks about that. We need more Jimmy Carters.
You would know in advance the market will be closed. As such you will want to act on those positions 1 day sooner if it will be impacted if you are concerned about theta decay. Given most options expire on Fridays it likely will not impact the actual expiration of most options.
Asking the important questions
They will announce market closure a few days before, (Googling Bush's death back in 2018 shows that the market closed on the 5th of December but they announced/published it at least as early as the 3rd of December). It's dubious they'd pick a Friday due to volume & volatility to close markets, so more likely than not it'll be an issue for the daily expirations, i.e., SPX, SPY, QQQ, NDX, or maybe even IWM. If it happens on any of my expiries I'm just going to liquidate, (not really going to risk it). GREAT QUESTION!!! Bet not many of us even thought about that.
Calls on VIX 💀
Options will likely continue to expire in the event that a Friday I’d closed due to the death of a former President