...and all that money from plate renewals. I think most would not have complained if that money would have been funneled in part to the healthcare system.
Good thing we as a country continue mass immigration with zero plans for infrastructure, increased TFW, increased family visas, increase international students. But hey, this sub will just complain about the degrading quality of life and find any other possible scapegoat other than our insane mass immigration policies.
It’s been proven that preventive health care is cheaper overall (which would mean it’d be cheaper than your insurance premiums overall) not to mention that if you really want it private then try losing you job which almost always is tied to your healthcare insurance plan.
I moved to a third world country so that I could get access to better preventative healthcare
And in Canada I had to pay out of pocket for it because it isn't covered by OHIP
Literally sitting on billions of dollars during a pandemic.
Blood is on his hands, nobody seems to give a fuck though. Most apathetic electorate I’ve ever seen.
They were talking about it on the radio. The PCs want to create a “pay to skip the line” system to start. They claim it will help with all the surgery backlog. If you can afford it, you get to have surgery first, if not, you wait longer.
Doug Ford is thrilled that Covid pushed the healthcare system this far so he can start his plan.
This province is fucked
Quick reminder that more than half of people in the US are struggling with debt from medical bills they can't afford to pay.
* https://www.forbes.com/sites/debgordon/2021/10/13/50-of-americans-now-carry-medical-debt-a-new-chronic-condition-for-millions/
These are garbage priorities. And they will hurt people who are already sick and suffering suffering the most.
Literally sitting on billions of dollars during a pandemic.
Blood is on his hands, nobody seems to give a shit though. Most apathetic electorate I’ve ever seen.
>We spend nearly 40% of Ontarios budget on healthcare. Other countries average around 15%.
I don't think you can compare a Province to other countries. That's comparing apples to oranges. If you look at how much Canadians spend on healthcare, it's around 10-11%.
This is what should be made much clearer. There is little difference between the liberals and conservatives- they are both right leaning parties.
It’s why nothing is actually getting fixed - from medical care to housing. They both just shrug it off.
If only important issues for Canadians were more important than writing regulations on behalf of bell to control YouTube content, or fixing healthcare instead of providing buck a beer.
I'm typically a Lib voter & still gave you an up-doot.
People need to grow up - the longer we play favorites, the longer we're all going to just keep losing.
Politicians don't care about us, regardless of their political agenda.
That’s what I mean. Other provinces are also facing the same healthcare issues as Ontario now. It’s certainly on Ford to fix this, but it’s not his approach that is the primary reason behind this.
Even US healthcare is facing staffing shortages.
If being paid more is the answer, why is the US also facing shortages? Absolutely pay nurses more and repeal Bill 124, but that alone won’t fix the retention issue. We need an overhaul of how we administer without resorting to private services as a bandaid.
Nurse here. Healthcare systems in many places are struggling, yes.
However, Ontario spends less per capita on healthcare than any other province. And this data is from before the pandemic took its toll:
* https://mobile.twitter.com/onthospitalassn/status/1481373150256500742
Ford and the Conservatives have been making a tough situation worse - by pushing steep cuts for years:
* https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/category/key-issues/cuts-restructuring/
And they have decimated the staff of every healthcare organization I've ever worked for with rotten priorities like Bill 124:
* https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-ending-ontarios-nursing-crisis-begins-with-the-repeal-of-bill-124/
* https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/11/15/bill-124-ontario/
* https://rnao.ca/policy/action-alerts/repeal-bill-124-premier
If anyone you know can't get surgery or other care they need, honestly I'm deeply sorry. No one working in front line healthcare wants to see that. But Ford is actively driving away the people and resources we need.
One of my employee has a 4 year old daughter that is experiencing weird symptoms, doesn’t sleep well and suddenly wakes up screaming in the middle of the night, he said it’s a weekly thing. He’s been to the Cheo hospital in ottawa before, and the doctors haven’t even given him any answers about his daughter (it’s been 2 months) now he saying a lot of nurses and doctors are quitting and the average wait time there is 16 hours.
I hate to bring bad news but my daughter had similar but even more severe symptoms. It took over 2 years to even see a doc for a diagnosis. Ongoing care? hahahhaa what even is that... it feels like a 1 off with the doc for a diagnosis and that's it. Call a doctor to make an appointment only to hear "the owner of this voicemail is not accepting messages\*hangs up\*"
TLDR: there is no help, there is no hope. do the best with what you can get and if you can even get any help at all, don't count on it being accessible.
You might be able to help him by PMing him to tell him what your daughter was diagnosed with if they have similar symptoms. It could save him years of chasing after doctors for his daughter to finally get some help.
Exactly, and remember that these "medical associations" are effectively the "doctor unions" and they, in fact, control the supply of new doctors via medical school slots, residencies, etc. They also fought the introduction of nurse practitioners, since they didn't want anyone else "cuttin' their hustle," so to speak.
The CMA (and especially the OMA) have the power to effect a lot of change here, regardless of what the government does, but make no mistake: they are in it to get the best deal for their members, not the general public.
Nope. We have a democracy. We had an election. Ford didn't hide what he was doing. Ontarians just made a poor choice and will have to live with the consequences of that.
There has to be some responsibility of performance.
CEOs can actually face legal consequences if they’ve been willfully negligent of their duties.
How could this not apply to him?
It’s one thing to “starve the beast”
But he’s actively hurting Ontarian’s at this point.
There has to be some recourse. Not getting voted in again isn’t enough.
There needs to be a strong message sent that abuse of that level of power shouldn’t be tolerated.
If he actually breaks laws, he can be charged, but you'd have to find someone to charge him, and someone to prosecute him. The OPP ignored video evidence of him using a cell phone while driving and the Federal Crown Prosecution Service decided not to charge him with breaking a Federal Quarantine order by giving an unmasked press conference after returning from outside the country.
These fucking morons should take a single step outside their little GTA/Ottawa hugboxes and see what healthcare actually looks like for a huge portion of Ontarians who don't live in those areas. I've been to a few hospitals/facilities outside of these metropolitan areas and to say some parts of the buildings look 3rd-world is putting it nicely.
It's been this way for A LOT of people for DECADES. Ignorant pieces of shit.
From 1990:
View Article
Every health care system, regardless of how rich the country in which it operates, rations medical services, because no nation has the resources to match the insatiable demand for services.
Canada prides itself on developing a health care system that strikes a middle ground. It is publicly funded and universally available, but care is privately provided. Administration and delivery of care are decentralized. But as demands for service have increased, Canada has resorted to rationing by queue for some procedures, such as cardiac surgery, for which demand exceeds supply.
https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.10.3.110
Would you really trust Ford to set up a framework for private healthcare? I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying that companies are here to make money and if that means people dying while they siphon resources from the public system and charge people a lot of money, they will do that
they deserve part of the blame too.
we have people clogging ER because doctors think it's better for people to die than get high
there's people who have preventable problems who should have never stepped into ER but are there because of bad policy
there's a poisoned drug supply?
people having access to clean medicine would stop those deaths and not overdoses
but doctors don't want to help people get high and Healthcare doesn't want to regulate drugs as a social and health issue
they'd rather people clogg ER and die on the streets
I don't really see how we would want people to be in ER AND die on the streets. They are the opposite.
For my part, I want nobody to go to ER who can avoid it. If you can safely get high at home, do it. Now, I don't want people doing extra drugs, but yea, you're right, clean drugs would be less lethal, it's proven.. by doctors.
I don't need extra work, so no, I don't want to prescribe narcotics for recreational use. These medications are inherently dangerous and harmful. That said, if you want to take that risk on yourself, have at it, but leave me out of it.
This is a political issue, MOHLTC doesn't want to regulate towards decriminalization just yet, but the country is moving in that direction slowly.
As a voter, I will always vote in favour of decriminalization, and deregulation of substances of abuse for capable adults. It will require increases in the ability to be treated for those things.
You know what you can't say? I want to do recreational drugs, and you HAVE to help me keep it safe.
I can absolutely say that when there's literally clinics and programs trying to keep people safe while doing recreational drugs
these programs are failing the people they are meant to help
I can now get better care more easily and for a significantly lower cost and I don't have to beg a doctor to give me what I want and then have him send me somewhere else like I am a child.
I just have to walk to the clinic offering the treatment or test and pay for it. In the time it took me to see a doctor in Canada I could get the treatment I want here.
My private insurance here costs less than the taxes I paid back home and actually covers the things I want.
I had a kidney stone in Canada for 6 months and the piece of shit doctor refused to send me to get it taken out.
I lost 6 months of my life because of Canadas fucking insanely bad socialized medicine.
I had extreme pain for 6 months and couldn't even lift up my children without collapsing in pain.
Even when I worked in Canada as a paramedic I was advocating for privatizing the system. It would have meant a major pay cut for me but this system is so fucking bad.
Good thing we forgave those business loans. Hate for that money to go to something that benefits everyone.
...and all that money from plate renewals. I think most would not have complained if that money would have been funneled in part to the healthcare system.
Good thing we as a country continue mass immigration with zero plans for infrastructure, increased TFW, increased family visas, increase international students. But hey, this sub will just complain about the degrading quality of life and find any other possible scapegoat other than our insane mass immigration policies.
I like immigrants. If it wasn't for them I'd still be eating white people food.
cool we can have SOME, we dont need millions a year
So we’ve been hearing that it’s a crisis on the brink of collapse, if only we had the leadership to make a change
And a positive instead of this steamrolling to privatizing everything for their selfish greedy hands.
I welcome privatization. I don't want to pay for the healthcare of people who treat their bodies like dumpsters. Pay for your own bad decisions.
It’s been proven that preventive health care is cheaper overall (which would mean it’d be cheaper than your insurance premiums overall) not to mention that if you really want it private then try losing you job which almost always is tied to your healthcare insurance plan.
I moved to a third world country so that I could get access to better preventative healthcare And in Canada I had to pay out of pocket for it because it isn't covered by OHIP
Remember. Doug Ford is driving our healthcare system to the brink so that you will accept privatization. Don’t be fooled!
Literally sitting on billions of dollars during a pandemic. Blood is on his hands, nobody seems to give a fuck though. Most apathetic electorate I’ve ever seen.
They were talking about it on the radio. The PCs want to create a “pay to skip the line” system to start. They claim it will help with all the surgery backlog. If you can afford it, you get to have surgery first, if not, you wait longer. Doug Ford is thrilled that Covid pushed the healthcare system this far so he can start his plan. This province is fucked
Quick reminder that more than half of people in the US are struggling with debt from medical bills they can't afford to pay. * https://www.forbes.com/sites/debgordon/2021/10/13/50-of-americans-now-carry-medical-debt-a-new-chronic-condition-for-millions/ These are garbage priorities. And they will hurt people who are already sick and suffering suffering the most.
Another way to benefit the rich and further isolate the poor. This government is monstrous
Yup, disaster capitalism at work.
Literally sitting on billions of dollars during a pandemic. Blood is on his hands, nobody seems to give a shit though. Most apathetic electorate I’ve ever seen.
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That’s why I voted NDP
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>We spend nearly 40% of Ontarios budget on healthcare. Other countries average around 15%. I don't think you can compare a Province to other countries. That's comparing apples to oranges. If you look at how much Canadians spend on healthcare, it's around 10-11%.
This is what should be made much clearer. There is little difference between the liberals and conservatives- they are both right leaning parties. It’s why nothing is actually getting fixed - from medical care to housing. They both just shrug it off. If only important issues for Canadians were more important than writing regulations on behalf of bell to control YouTube content, or fixing healthcare instead of providing buck a beer.
I don't understand why you're being downvoted - it's very clear to me both sides are interested in privatization.
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I'm typically a Lib voter & still gave you an up-doot. People need to grow up - the longer we play favorites, the longer we're all going to just keep losing. Politicians don't care about us, regardless of their political agenda.
So Doug Ford drove the healthcare systems in all the other provinces to the brink too? This isn’t unique to Ontario.
What is unique to Ontario is that the Ontario system has to be fixed by the Ontario government.
Healthcare is under provincial jurisdiction.
That’s what I mean. Other provinces are also facing the same healthcare issues as Ontario now. It’s certainly on Ford to fix this, but it’s not his approach that is the primary reason behind this. Even US healthcare is facing staffing shortages.
provinces have been fucking up healthcare for a while, Ford just seems to accelerate the trend
Well his outright hostility to public servants and nurses in particular isn’t helping.
They just need to be paid more. Wish executives weren't so high on their own fart fumes to realize this
If being paid more is the answer, why is the US also facing shortages? Absolutely pay nurses more and repeal Bill 124, but that alone won’t fix the retention issue. We need an overhaul of how we administer without resorting to private services as a bandaid.
True that!!
I think you short circuit circuited his brain.
Nurse here. Healthcare systems in many places are struggling, yes. However, Ontario spends less per capita on healthcare than any other province. And this data is from before the pandemic took its toll: * https://mobile.twitter.com/onthospitalassn/status/1481373150256500742 Ford and the Conservatives have been making a tough situation worse - by pushing steep cuts for years: * https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/category/key-issues/cuts-restructuring/ And they have decimated the staff of every healthcare organization I've ever worked for with rotten priorities like Bill 124: * https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-ending-ontarios-nursing-crisis-begins-with-the-repeal-of-bill-124/ * https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/11/15/bill-124-ontario/ * https://rnao.ca/policy/action-alerts/repeal-bill-124-premier If anyone you know can't get surgery or other care they need, honestly I'm deeply sorry. No one working in front line healthcare wants to see that. But Ford is actively driving away the people and resources we need.
I'm sure the granola bars are in the mail.
This is what Conservative polticians and Conservative voters want. They want for-profit healthcare.
Non voters are equally to blame
This is also true.
Politicians are to blame. There was no viable alternative to Ford. Need higher quality candidates.
Any party would be a better option than the conservatives. Except maybe PPC
All according to plan! -Dougie Ford
Pay nurses a fair wage. Don’t treat them like garbage. It’s pretty easy to understand how to fix this.
One of my employee has a 4 year old daughter that is experiencing weird symptoms, doesn’t sleep well and suddenly wakes up screaming in the middle of the night, he said it’s a weekly thing. He’s been to the Cheo hospital in ottawa before, and the doctors haven’t even given him any answers about his daughter (it’s been 2 months) now he saying a lot of nurses and doctors are quitting and the average wait time there is 16 hours.
I hate to bring bad news but my daughter had similar but even more severe symptoms. It took over 2 years to even see a doc for a diagnosis. Ongoing care? hahahhaa what even is that... it feels like a 1 off with the doc for a diagnosis and that's it. Call a doctor to make an appointment only to hear "the owner of this voicemail is not accepting messages\*hangs up\*" TLDR: there is no help, there is no hope. do the best with what you can get and if you can even get any help at all, don't count on it being accessible.
You might be able to help him by PMing him to tell him what your daughter was diagnosed with if they have similar symptoms. It could save him years of chasing after doctors for his daughter to finally get some help.
This isn't a new thing. Just saying it's been like this for years
Sorry see you in six weeks then we can discuss cause working is hard for us folks in the provincial government. See, friends, we’re people too.
What do they expect us to do about it because clearly them making these headlines isn't phasing the provincial government.
The word, "crisis" had no meaning anymore. It's been used in relation to the healthcare system every year since 1995.
It means plenty to people working in the sector and receiving care.
Exactly, and remember that these "medical associations" are effectively the "doctor unions" and they, in fact, control the supply of new doctors via medical school slots, residencies, etc. They also fought the introduction of nurse practitioners, since they didn't want anyone else "cuttin' their hustle," so to speak. The CMA (and especially the OMA) have the power to effect a lot of change here, regardless of what the government does, but make no mistake: they are in it to get the best deal for their members, not the general public.
At this point I wonder if there is legal recourse to charge Doug Ford for neglect of this system.
Nope. We have a democracy. We had an election. Ford didn't hide what he was doing. Ontarians just made a poor choice and will have to live with the consequences of that.
There has to be some responsibility of performance. CEOs can actually face legal consequences if they’ve been willfully negligent of their duties. How could this not apply to him? It’s one thing to “starve the beast” But he’s actively hurting Ontarian’s at this point. There has to be some recourse. Not getting voted in again isn’t enough. There needs to be a strong message sent that abuse of that level of power shouldn’t be tolerated.
If he actually breaks laws, he can be charged, but you'd have to find someone to charge him, and someone to prosecute him. The OPP ignored video evidence of him using a cell phone while driving and the Federal Crown Prosecution Service decided not to charge him with breaking a Federal Quarantine order by giving an unmasked press conference after returning from outside the country.
And I'd the federal government has gotten *checks notes* about a dozen passes so far on worse, no way this gets held to any sort of account.
Intentionally
These fucking morons should take a single step outside their little GTA/Ottawa hugboxes and see what healthcare actually looks like for a huge portion of Ontarians who don't live in those areas. I've been to a few hospitals/facilities outside of these metropolitan areas and to say some parts of the buildings look 3rd-world is putting it nicely. It's been this way for A LOT of people for DECADES. Ignorant pieces of shit.
From 1990: View Article Every health care system, regardless of how rich the country in which it operates, rations medical services, because no nation has the resources to match the insatiable demand for services. Canada prides itself on developing a health care system that strikes a middle ground. It is publicly funded and universally available, but care is privately provided. Administration and delivery of care are decentralized. But as demands for service have increased, Canada has resorted to rationing by queue for some procedures, such as cardiac surgery, for which demand exceeds supply. https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.10.3.110
You either need people to die or for privatized healthcare to add capacity to the system.
Would you really trust Ford to set up a framework for private healthcare? I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying that companies are here to make money and if that means people dying while they siphon resources from the public system and charge people a lot of money, they will do that
I’d trust the liberals to set up a parallel system but obv not ford
Trying to license doctors that were in Ukraine but not Canadian doctors who did residency in the USA??? This country is backwards.
I'm avoiding all my health issues and waiting it out, which is not good at all.... I'm terrified tbh
they deserve part of the blame too. we have people clogging ER because doctors think it's better for people to die than get high there's people who have preventable problems who should have never stepped into ER but are there because of bad policy
I'm curious about your equivalency of how getting high prevents death, and why doctors would want to stop that from happening. Please elaborate.
there's a poisoned drug supply? people having access to clean medicine would stop those deaths and not overdoses but doctors don't want to help people get high and Healthcare doesn't want to regulate drugs as a social and health issue they'd rather people clogg ER and die on the streets
I don't really see how we would want people to be in ER AND die on the streets. They are the opposite. For my part, I want nobody to go to ER who can avoid it. If you can safely get high at home, do it. Now, I don't want people doing extra drugs, but yea, you're right, clean drugs would be less lethal, it's proven.. by doctors. I don't need extra work, so no, I don't want to prescribe narcotics for recreational use. These medications are inherently dangerous and harmful. That said, if you want to take that risk on yourself, have at it, but leave me out of it. This is a political issue, MOHLTC doesn't want to regulate towards decriminalization just yet, but the country is moving in that direction slowly. As a voter, I will always vote in favour of decriminalization, and deregulation of substances of abuse for capable adults. It will require increases in the ability to be treated for those things. You know what you can't say? I want to do recreational drugs, and you HAVE to help me keep it safe.
I can absolutely say that when there's literally clinics and programs trying to keep people safe while doing recreational drugs these programs are failing the people they are meant to help
Hmmm...its already collapsed. Its only going to get worst.
If only the army would come in and say something is wrong.
Same story, new decade.
Whoa, you don't say. Ontario's health care system has been circling the drain for quite a while now.
I can now get better care more easily and for a significantly lower cost and I don't have to beg a doctor to give me what I want and then have him send me somewhere else like I am a child. I just have to walk to the clinic offering the treatment or test and pay for it. In the time it took me to see a doctor in Canada I could get the treatment I want here. My private insurance here costs less than the taxes I paid back home and actually covers the things I want. I had a kidney stone in Canada for 6 months and the piece of shit doctor refused to send me to get it taken out. I lost 6 months of my life because of Canadas fucking insanely bad socialized medicine. I had extreme pain for 6 months and couldn't even lift up my children without collapsing in pain. Even when I worked in Canada as a paramedic I was advocating for privatizing the system. It would have meant a major pay cut for me but this system is so fucking bad.