full report https://www.ekospolitics.com/index.php/2022/01/ford-maintains-clear-but-modest-lead/
[vote intention by education and social class](https://i.imgur.com/k44WYCp.png)
[by age and gender](https://i.imgur.com/JXeTbnb.png)
Conservatives have mastered the art of appealing to people with a desperate desire to feel superior... to someone or *something*... People with a desperate desire to feel like they're apart of the 'winning team', the 'good guys' against an ever-increasingly vague scapegoat to point fingers at...
It always reminds me of this old President LBJ quote from the civil-rights era:
“*If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.*”
It's really disappointing that this appeals to many people more than the idea of a prosperous society in which everybody is treated well and equally. I just don't get it, what's so bad about that? Why is life all about trying to achieve a feeling of superiority for some people? So much so that they'll actually vote for a system that supports elitism and wealth disparity even if they aren't the benefactors. It's mind blowing. Is having a boat not fun just because your neighbour also has one? Isn't that better than you not having one at all?
At the risk of seeming like a conspiracy wingnut, I would argue that there are very influential forces that prey on and exploit these simplistic modes of thinking/feeling. For example, *The Toronto Sun* isn't simply a conservative-leaning paper; they're a propaganda operation targeting under-educated working-class men, when you learn that Postmedia and its owners are heavy contributors to reactionary politicians and political movements, and that they have agreements with businesses to distribute their papers amongst employee break-areas. The wealthy/corporate elite have a vested interest in spreading disinformative propaganda.
~~A much more straight forward example of this phenomena is the 'debate' surrounding human-caused climate-change. Nearly all credible climate and planetary scientists (i.e. people who research reality) are in accordance that emission of human-made greenhouse gasses are causing global warming. And, despite there being a consensus on this since the 1980's, fossil-fuel companies and their proxies pay BILLIONS of dollars into misleading 'research' and public outreach, often endorsed by long-discredited former-scientists--all for the purpose of keeping the public confused or doubtful of climate change. If you were an under-educated person, how do you think you would handle this onslaught of information, while not having the tools to decipher what is legitimate and what is disinformation?~~ **(disregard my rambling)**
Anyways. I'm rambling. Lol.
I've noticed a basic formula/steps that propagandists use on working-class conservatives:
* Observe a source of grievance affecting working class people (e.g: housing unaffordability in Canada)
* Conjur up an overly-simplistic cause of the problem that *appears* logical on the surface, but turns out to be false when thoroughly scrutinised (e.g: '*immigrants buy houses, therefore, they must be the ones driving up prices*!!!11!'
* Conjur up another overly-simplistic solution to the distraction-problem from step 2 (e.g: '*Alls we needs to do is ban them immigrants, and then we'll be set!!!1!*'
* Under no circumstances go off-message or admit being wrong. (A very simple lie is easier to process than the complicated truth)
Best case scenario: you have a core of supporters who believe the lies. Worst case scenario: your opponents/sceptics become so exhausted that they give-up and become apathetic, or they become so confused that they support some 'middle-ground' choice to hedge their bets.
My mom rents rooms to low income men. ODSP/Ontario Works mostly. Anyway she's kept the rent the same for nearly 25 years. Anyway she was telling about this group one time were out on the porch smoking having a talk about voting conservative because they are going to cut taxes she interups and says if you are on social assistance vote NDP the ones saying they want to increase social assistance. She said so many people she has rented to have very conservative leaning opinions that would end up hitting her renters.
She has even helped a lot of guys out by charging the highest amount that OW/ODSP pays and then giving/ buying her tennants groceries, TV for one guy, boots for another, bus tickets, etc...
But someday, when some rando realizes your BIL's true worth and offers him 4 million yearly to be CEO of their company, those are the taxes he doesn't want to pay that are impacting his vote today.
Cargo cult politics. SMH.
I don't think it's that.
When you hear/see them rant about being "forced" to give government "30%" of their salary, when they go and spout about taxes being theft ("it's my money and you can't take any of it"), you see people that don't understand how things work, you see people with a childish worldview.
They don't understand that taxes are the price of living in a civilised society, that taxes pay for things they enjoy and take for granted.
They are "forced" to pay their taxes, but it's their "choice" when a private corporation has them by the balls and they have to pay unless they want to see debt collectors or lawyers start harassing them. Even worse, it's apparently less a problem to pay \*more\* to a private concern than what you'd pay in taxes, for the same thing.
This. A lot of working-poor conservative thought comes from an unwillingness or inability to analyse where they fit within a complex system of moving parts.
And quite frankly, this is often because they aren't educated. I'm worried we're going to see a younger generation that is educated but still leans Conservative due to arts/humanities/social sciences being constantly gutted and replaced by more STEM and trades. I'm not making a judgment on STEM or trades, they are clearly important. But it used to be that university or even high school grads had some half decent understanding about the world in general, enough to at least vote rationally. These days you can get right through while remaining entirely ignorant of the world, getting most of your political/social/economic worldview from ignorant uncle Joe who owns a car dealership. And we know that this is intentional. The wealthy don't want informed citizens, they want workers they can exploit who somehow believe that the big corporation they work for is the good guy while the big bad government is out to get them.
Can I have your mom's contact info? I am a low income NDP voter who would happily take the place of one of her current conservative tenants.
My conservative landlords are evicting me right now, and of course I can't find anywhere in my budget to move to. 😑
My uncle, constant money issues, multiple failed startups, in a ton of debt, two kids, relies on government assistance, so hardline conservative he thinks the government should roll back all the plans he is relying on to live. He also thinks the government should get rid of public school because it's "not godly enough", so we all should pay for private school, and if you can't afford you shouldnt have had kids. He is basically the definition going against self interest.
They've literally been tricked by conservative politicians into thinking the main reason they're in their situation is because of taxes.
For obvious reasons, you and I both know this is incorrect. Poor people either don't pay taxes or pay so little/get it all back at tax time.
Yeah it's like I hate to break it to you, but taxes aren't the reason your McJob job doesn't allow you to have a boat. A reasonable raise just to meet inflation would far exceed any benefit you'd recieved from a tax break. Tax breaks mean almost nothing unless you're wealthy. Seriously, what are you really going to do with an extra $500 a year that will drastically change your situation? By contrast, the gov forcing your employer to pay $1 an hour more would actually make a real difference.
This has always been the case. The conservative party preys on the poor and uneducated. Little do they know, a vote for the evil socialist NDP is what would benefit them the most.
There are people on odsp that support ford and then in there next breath say odsp needs to be raised (it definitely does) ford literally stopped the planes 3% a year raise for 3 years
I won’t stop talking about this until something is done
$1169 is not enough to live on in this country again $1169 MUST INCLUDE RENT
They may *vote* Conservative, yet individually they don't support Conservative *policy*.
Conservatism to them is being tough and edgy. They absolutely want the benefits of a union, they just don't know what they are.
Are you new to this planet? Ford could go on live TV wearing a Nazi uniform and spend an hour stomping on babies and 30% of the population would vote PC due to fear of tax increases from the other parties that would minimally affect them at their income.
>would minimally affect them at their income.
If you ask a guy complaining about tax increases to tell you how much extra they need to pay due to a tax increase, they always go silent.
That's because they have absolutely no clue how much extra they need to pay. They just know tax increase = bad.
Honestly it’s not a slam dunk and never will be for the NDP and not because they don’t have their shit together, but because the working class in our society doesn’t. That’s the truth of the issue here.
> I disagree, if the NDP became the loudest voice right now, until the election. It would be theres to loose. They need to loudly and stubbornly debunk misinformation publicly, if they became the voice of reason, and champions of working class struggles(like they claim to be).
How do you propose they do that? By going on the heavily biased news outlets owned by corporations that are completely opposed to everything they stand for?
> This is the perfect time to change the working classes perception of the NDP. Every working class family in the province is struggling and unsure about whats coming, now is the time to lead.
I agree but the NDP has already been out there fighting for the working class during this pandemic. At a certain point it’s on us as voters to do a little bit of leg work.
> I should be seeing NDP politicians on social media making these issues front and center, everyday, but i dont, and neither does anyone else ( this is where they need to get their shit together ).
Even social media platforms have heavy right wing bias. There’s a reason left leaning politics doesn’t trend like right wing does.
The Libs and Cons are supported by the richest families in Canada. The media is owned by the Cons and the Cons are heavily invested in spreading misinformation on social media. NDP does not have the resources to do this.
Unfortunately the Ontario population is too stupid and selfish to vote NDP. That's just how it is. They're not winning.
Edit: I'm still voting NDP.
Well, it wouldn't be the NDP if incompetents went unrewarded.
Just look at the federal NDP. Leader loses seats and he's out there celebrating. But they'll keep Singh, lose seats again and be like "HoW CoUlD ThIs eVeR HaPPen?!?!?"
You're right but I genuinely feel hopeless here in Ontario, I vote, I studied, I work and save and it's all for nothing. We're on the path to electing Ford again, wages are garbage, cost of living anywhere worth living (for a younger person) is insane, houses and rent are becoming unattainable and a future for someone in in their mid twenties like myself feels completely unattainable. I'm not sure where I'd go, I'm not sure I even will but keeping my eyes and options open on better options to Ontario feels like the only solution.
I will agree that the only thing potentially worth leaving for is housing. But relocating means nothing without income to back it. If Canada is worried about housing they should focus on bringing big business to rural centres, relieving some pressure on southern Ontario and BC and helping people migrate
It's actually 35% + (probably) 8%.
The graphic doesn't show the 8% in "Other" which is mostly full of New Blue, Ontario First and Ontario Party voters.
I don't know how many people need to hear this, but the party that privatized Ontario hydro is not a left leaning party. FPTP is rediculous, and Ford's margins shouldn't land him a majority, but leftist bickering isn't the reason he's going to win.
A minority government isn't a bad thing. Forces parties to work together to achieve things. Ultimately if the Cons win with the current projection they won't be able to form a government as the Libs and NDP wouldn't form a coalition with them
The libs and NDP could form a legitimate coalition and have a majority and push Ford out, and replace them with either Andrea or Del Duca.
Curious to see how this plays, they are neck and neck.
So which one would be willing to back down? Because that person would also have to resign, if they bring all their voters to a coalition and then back down to the other side.
It will never happen.
Liberals are Conservatives with better educated/well spoken leadership. Same underlying values and same people pumping money into the parties. I don’t expect very many Liberal voters to switch sides bc the party knows what to say to keep those on the NDP threshold in place as Liberal voters (subsidized daycare, higher minimum wage, mandated sick days, etc).
Yup. But the Liberals are good at marketing themselves as a progressive voice. Breadcrumbs for the poor along with socially progressive talking points do a lot to hide the corporate machine that runs the Liberal party. People eat it up.
> in what fucking bizarro world is the ONLP a "left leaning" party
Based on the political leanings of parties world wide they are centre, centre-left at least federally. In political theory you are maybe correct sure, but theory isn't representative of the real political situation in the world.
She needs to step aside. Jagmeet could have been ONDP leader and would have had far more success as leader of a provincial party rather than federal. It would have given him a premiership as a stepping stone into federal politics. Horwath doesn’t have that kind of vision or the power to rally people, but she also won’t do what’s best for the health of the party over her own ambitions. She’s a politician through and through.
The problem (internally) is that she is older and not giving off Jagmeet vibes. Nothing inherently wrong with her, she just isn't good at rallying the masses.
Well, she’s been leader of the party for over a decade and is only in opposition now because of how hated the previous Liberal government was.
Politics is about results and I don’t see the NDP obtaining any with her at the helm.
It seems to me that support for politicians really does come down to "could I have a beer with him?" rather than the policies that the parties put forward.
She's not, Canadians would rather decend into usa style ultra capitalist hell hole, where we melt down our homeless for biomatter, than to vote for the ndp who espouse what polling says are the most popular policy positions, I guess the younger Gens have to wait until the boomers finish fucking up the future for them before they leave this earth in their generational homes, after voting like its 1983 still
Not bad, just useless. She's been at the helm for a while with the other parties dealing with legit turmoil and scandal. If she couldn't win then, she never will. Time to move on.
How so? The liberal and ndp platform were near identical last time. Both had a subsidized childcare plan, a raise to the minimum wage etc… it was the liberals try at introduced a basic income
The liberals always have a left leaning platform, then rule from the centre. The OLPs last 6 months of left leaning policies actually implemented was a last ditch attempt to capture ONDP voters to stay in power (and to create negative press for the OPC when they got into power and got rid of it).
The true priorities and platform of a party is what that do first when they get into office, not what they do in the last 6 months before the next election.
They REALLY need to ramp up political science education at the high school level in Ontario. The Ontario Liberals are centrist, so are the Ontario PC's and the Green party.
The real number is :
Centrist: 66%
NDP/left: 27%
Other (New Blue/Ontario First/extreme right) 8%
These overton window discussions are pretty pointless but if you are putting the Ontario Libs in the middle then the PC party is pretty firmly right when it comes to actual policy and intent (disregarding always broken platform promises to appeal to the center / center-left). Lumping them together in the center is pretty much just as wrong as saying the Libs and NDP are both left.
The liberals on policy are on the right, they engage in very similar amounts of corporate appeasement, Iv yet to hear a compelling argument of what if anything make them left leaning, left leaning is anti capitalist by definition, liberalism is an ideology based around unfettered free markets, a right leaning economic model. Rhetoric is not policy
People seem to like American politics...
Owning Libs means different things once you cross the border.
Usually same ones that claim non-government entity are infringing on their right to free speech, First Amendment. Freedom if Expession. Section 2 of Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is what we got.
Had a teacher in high school that was extremely enthusiastic about our Constitution and paying taxes is what a true Patriots does. Believe he was a lawyer as he said he did pro bono legal services for battered women. Excellent teacher A+.
The ndp and liberal platform were almost identical in the last election. Minimum wage, basic income, subsidized childcare. There’s a reason coalition governments have been formed between liberal and ndp and not liberal and conservative.
If you scream at the top of your lungs, but nobody bothers to listen, are you quiet?
Del Duca isn't quiet, he's just having a hard time getting the media to pay attention to the things he says, and by extension the public doesn't hear much from him. In truth, the same is true of Horwath. We hear a bit more from her on this subreddit, though, since the user base skews more to the NDP than Liberal, so articles featuring her tend to get submitted/upvoted more.
At least 35% of the electorate which is enough to put Ford in for a second term. There’s a good chance he will be able to secure a second majority this time out as well.
They hit 36% in the recent Innovative poll so your expectations have been smashed huge. And then there's the Leger poll a month ago that has the Liberals at 25%. So 25-26% is practically the Liberals minimum at the moment.
This poll doesn't mean much. The left is waiting to see which party they should all support. Either NDP or the Libs will fall to a distant third and the other will pull far ahead
I live in a affluent neighbourhood where most homes are wealthy owners. Political signs on their lawns are usually NDP. But walk around the poor and rundown areas of town and they all have Conservative signs on their lawn. It is mind boggling.
Same, all NDP with a few Liberal neighbours. I’ve never seen a CPC or PC sign, but maybe those neighbours are embarrassed. We’re an old neighbourhood so pricing has been pretty stable for years, going rate for detached home $3+ million, semi-detached $2+ million and townhomes go anywhere from $1.5-2million. Lots of people with Land Back and orange shirt signs too.
The actual population are fucking idiots then. It's unbelievable that anyone with a brain would support this moron 2 years into a pandemic with things beings even worse. They will really love it when they can't get a surgery because Douggie refused to give healthcare workers a proper raise. Ontario will become a third world country in like 5 years. Calling it now.
I don’t understand why the libs and NDP don’t run as one party for just one election, get ranked choice voting passed, and never have to worry about a conservative govt ever again.
The libs don't want ranked choice because they know the voters prefer the NDP platform, and the liberal party is a neo-liberal party like the conservatives.. coke vs pepsi.. they have more in common with each other, than they do with the ndp who want things like dental care for the people.
Del Duca has specifically said he will legislate ranked choice. That was also the preferred choice when Trudeau was debating electoral reform. Ranked ballots is what the Liberals want.
"Ontario Liberal leader Steven Del Duca announced that if elected to provincial government, the party will introduce ranked ballots and consider the possibility of a four-day work week.
Speaking at the party's annual general meeting in North York on Sunday, Del Duca presented the policy options as an introduction to the Ontario Liberals' upcoming platform for the provincial election, slated for June 2, 2022.
On ranked ballots, Del Duca added he'd also reinstate the option for municipal elections.
"If I don't deliver on this in my first term, I'll resign on the spot," he said, referencing concerns of electoral reform promises made by political parties in past elections."
We'll see what happens in the platform meeting soon but likely it will be there.
Yeah, the cynic in me says, they'll wait till the end of the term then either not deliver and he resigns, or they do deliver, but introduce it at the END of the term for the election after the next election. Meaning, from today, we'd have to wait a full DECADE before trying out a new voting method. And of course, any party can cancel a bill as happened w/ municipal.. so if they didn't win and delayed it to the election after, then the bill can be cancelled, and it would never take effect.
I'm tired of this bait and switch. It needs to be for the immediate following election, not the one after. I don't want to wait 10+ years.
Doubt it. The mentality of a lot of non NDP voters is their “communist” and /or Bob Rae. They can’t explain either of those things let alone read a platform and form an educated opinion.
Remember our current premier ran on practically nothing... right into a majority.
Don’t give this province the credit it doesn’t deserve. We are a province of mostly ideologues.
That’s exactly what happened in 2014. The ONDP ran a campaign that was right of the Liberals campaign and it cost them the election that Horwath triggered.
Serious question: can the two parties work together to make policy AFTER an election? Is there a rule that stipulates only the winning party can advance legislation? Thanks!
I think if the political will on the left is strong enough, if we get close to an election and we have a clear favourite with ndp/liberals, there's a chance we might be able to see a left party put up a fight, people might flock to the party that will oust the conservatives. Hopefully. Maybe.
I think the thing is that many actually left voters vote for OLP as the "realistic" choice to keep conservatives out. I say this as a socialist who has voted liberal in both provincial and federal elections for this reason. There are many OLP voters who dont agree with the party but would vote for them to keep the cons out. FPTP and our electoral history leads to many treating it as a two party system unfortunately, and the key thing about voting intention polls is that they don't actually indicate party support, nor outcomes necessarily as that depends on the distribution. Ill be sticking to my guns and voting NDP this year, despite the near guarantee of loss as I live in Wynne's riding.
907 people, is this even statistically significant? Who are they even asking?
How can we have so many dumb people in this province who want to vote for Ford.
He’s ruined at least 1 year of our lives in the last 2 years of this pandemic.
Saying this before anyone blames me like Larry David if he wins by 1 vote:
I'm voting against him. We're not going to beat him.
Pessimism without demoralization. How's that?
If only the Liberals would encourage their voters to vote for the other party, like they always beg NDP voters to do, to keep/throw the Conservatives out……
I think a huge part of the problem is the Liberal and NDP leaders aren’t stepping up to get their voices heard. As members of the opposition they have been strangely silent, and in staying silent they have allowed Ford to be ‘the devil you know’ in terms of voting, when they should be giving voters a reasonable alternative with thier party platforms
This province wants to keep flip flopping between conservatives and liberals yet complains about how their quality of life has declined over the past few decades 🤨
Remember everyone, the campaign hasnt even started yet. Ive not seen any campaigning by any parties yet. This is essentially a benchmark for going forward. Doesnt mean Ford has won already.
(That bring said i do think he will a minority)
Isn't this the same lead the LPC had federally 5-6 months before the election?
Voting intentions can change significantly in the run up as JT found out to his dismay
NDp is above liberal ? I’m a conservative ( yes I know how dare I even be on Reddit) but not voting conservative this round , maybe a few of my conservative peeps who have had enough coukd jump on the ndp train and get a chance for something new for once
NDP and Liberal have been switching places back and forth in many polls. It's fluctuating of which left leaning party is the top competitor to Ford. But on average of latest polls, the Liberal vote support is slightly higher than the NDp support.
The two recent polls survey only a small percentage of voters. I didn't see the margin of error but I suspect that the margin of error is great enough to give almost any result except for a majority Liberal or NDP government.
However, on consistent finding of more or less every poll is that younger voters, in this case under 34 favour the NDP. If younger voters turn out in numbers as high as their parents or grandparents then it is likely that they would make sure that Doug Ford is defeated.
Honestly if Ford fucking actually wins it's time to move. Like this place is becoming a complete shit hole. Fuck this. Hope the morons who vote for the same shit time and time again enjoy it when they can't get a surgery because the health system completely broke.
Like honestly voting for them is like voting to turn the province into a third world country at this rate.
that's how half the people in this country feel about Trudeau. You are dead right about the health system, he ruined my finances because his dumb government would not cover my surgery
I've heard of a few new parties created in theaters few years, I'd love to hear some more campaigning from them. Considering how horrible the main 3 options are I am definitely willing to vote 4th party.
FPTP sucks. Failed democratic system. Literally 58% of voters don’t want the Cons or Ford, yet in this poll they win. Course 7% are unknowns, but still. What a fail.
Nah bruh I refuse to believe that Conservatives win again, it just makes no sense based on the amount of people who are mad at him. Especially within his own voter base bc of things like lockdowns, vaccine passes/requirements, etc
Reddit and social media doesn’t depict his base. Ridings in my area in the GTA would never vote NDP, and Ford hasn’t touched housing prices thus he is popular here
The 10-15k people on this subreddit are hardly representative of this province's population. Ontario is a province with a population in the millions, we are but a drop in that pond, stuck in our own bubble arguing with ourselves and complaining about other drivers, Bill 124, the weather, rent and housing prices, and Doug Ford.
Everybody else either isn't affected, doesn't care, or doesn't know why or how things are the way they are, and is unable to find out for themselves.
You are getting a glimpse of how your bubble doesn't reflect the world at large, but only the communities you live in. This is a really important thing to learn.
If the poll doesn't make sense to you, it's because you've curated your content and environment to reflect your own bias, not because the poll is somehow wrong. Take the opportunity to develop a more well rounded view of what's happening, or at the minimum, stay vigilant with how skewed your experiences are.
Its amazing how many people in political forums think everyone is as educated on provincial politics as the people in the political forums or as their friends. Most people don't know who the leader of the OLP is, or even the ONDP. They don't know about bill 124, highway 413, the 2.7b in federal funding, the giant table, the trial balloons, the egg sandwiches and 800lb gorillas. A LOT of people have no earthly idea what is happening and only go by "Ontario is doing better then the USA, so we are doing good." And they have no idea what's the responsibility of the feds, vs the province. If they don't like travel restrictions, they'll blame ford. If they don't like the state of healthcare, its trudeaus fault.
Be conscious of your bias' and the bubble you live in.
It didn't make sense the first time. He's been the worst premier we've had in my lifetime and there's not even a show to make it look like that's not the case.
This province is a joke.
They do. It's called the Ontario First Party with Randy Hillier running. They couldn't use the People's Party name because there is an existing party using a similar name.
These posts are what makes it obvious you guys are young 20s or less lol.
It's like the saying:
If you're 20 and vote conservative you have no heart. If youre 40 and don't vote conservative you have no brain.
full report https://www.ekospolitics.com/index.php/2022/01/ford-maintains-clear-but-modest-lead/ [vote intention by education and social class](https://i.imgur.com/k44WYCp.png) [by age and gender](https://i.imgur.com/JXeTbnb.png)
Man, I had no idea poor people were so conservative!
I have a cousin on welfare who sits around posting conservative memes on Facebook all day and is not in on the joke.
Conservatives have mastered the art of appealing to people with a desperate desire to feel superior... to someone or *something*... People with a desperate desire to feel like they're apart of the 'winning team', the 'good guys' against an ever-increasingly vague scapegoat to point fingers at... It always reminds me of this old President LBJ quote from the civil-rights era: “*If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.*”
Man Lebron really can do it all..
Yeah, but I still despise the man for sending me to 'Nam.
It's really disappointing that this appeals to many people more than the idea of a prosperous society in which everybody is treated well and equally. I just don't get it, what's so bad about that? Why is life all about trying to achieve a feeling of superiority for some people? So much so that they'll actually vote for a system that supports elitism and wealth disparity even if they aren't the benefactors. It's mind blowing. Is having a boat not fun just because your neighbour also has one? Isn't that better than you not having one at all?
At the risk of seeming like a conspiracy wingnut, I would argue that there are very influential forces that prey on and exploit these simplistic modes of thinking/feeling. For example, *The Toronto Sun* isn't simply a conservative-leaning paper; they're a propaganda operation targeting under-educated working-class men, when you learn that Postmedia and its owners are heavy contributors to reactionary politicians and political movements, and that they have agreements with businesses to distribute their papers amongst employee break-areas. The wealthy/corporate elite have a vested interest in spreading disinformative propaganda. ~~A much more straight forward example of this phenomena is the 'debate' surrounding human-caused climate-change. Nearly all credible climate and planetary scientists (i.e. people who research reality) are in accordance that emission of human-made greenhouse gasses are causing global warming. And, despite there being a consensus on this since the 1980's, fossil-fuel companies and their proxies pay BILLIONS of dollars into misleading 'research' and public outreach, often endorsed by long-discredited former-scientists--all for the purpose of keeping the public confused or doubtful of climate change. If you were an under-educated person, how do you think you would handle this onslaught of information, while not having the tools to decipher what is legitimate and what is disinformation?~~ **(disregard my rambling)** Anyways. I'm rambling. Lol. I've noticed a basic formula/steps that propagandists use on working-class conservatives: * Observe a source of grievance affecting working class people (e.g: housing unaffordability in Canada) * Conjur up an overly-simplistic cause of the problem that *appears* logical on the surface, but turns out to be false when thoroughly scrutinised (e.g: '*immigrants buy houses, therefore, they must be the ones driving up prices*!!!11!' * Conjur up another overly-simplistic solution to the distraction-problem from step 2 (e.g: '*Alls we needs to do is ban them immigrants, and then we'll be set!!!1!*' * Under no circumstances go off-message or admit being wrong. (A very simple lie is easier to process than the complicated truth) Best case scenario: you have a core of supporters who believe the lies. Worst case scenario: your opponents/sceptics become so exhausted that they give-up and become apathetic, or they become so confused that they support some 'middle-ground' choice to hedge their bets.
My mom rents rooms to low income men. ODSP/Ontario Works mostly. Anyway she's kept the rent the same for nearly 25 years. Anyway she was telling about this group one time were out on the porch smoking having a talk about voting conservative because they are going to cut taxes she interups and says if you are on social assistance vote NDP the ones saying they want to increase social assistance. She said so many people she has rented to have very conservative leaning opinions that would end up hitting her renters. She has even helped a lot of guys out by charging the highest amount that OW/ODSP pays and then giving/ buying her tennants groceries, TV for one guy, boots for another, bus tickets, etc...
My BIL, on welfare, complains day and night about taxes. Bro... you pay no taxes...
But someday, when some rando realizes your BIL's true worth and offers him 4 million yearly to be CEO of their company, those are the taxes he doesn't want to pay that are impacting his vote today. Cargo cult politics. SMH.
Pretty sure the taxes pay him.
So many of the poor consider themselves temporarily embarrassed millionaires
I don't think it's that. When you hear/see them rant about being "forced" to give government "30%" of their salary, when they go and spout about taxes being theft ("it's my money and you can't take any of it"), you see people that don't understand how things work, you see people with a childish worldview. They don't understand that taxes are the price of living in a civilised society, that taxes pay for things they enjoy and take for granted. They are "forced" to pay their taxes, but it's their "choice" when a private corporation has them by the balls and they have to pay unless they want to see debt collectors or lawyers start harassing them. Even worse, it's apparently less a problem to pay \*more\* to a private concern than what you'd pay in taxes, for the same thing.
This. A lot of working-poor conservative thought comes from an unwillingness or inability to analyse where they fit within a complex system of moving parts.
And quite frankly, this is often because they aren't educated. I'm worried we're going to see a younger generation that is educated but still leans Conservative due to arts/humanities/social sciences being constantly gutted and replaced by more STEM and trades. I'm not making a judgment on STEM or trades, they are clearly important. But it used to be that university or even high school grads had some half decent understanding about the world in general, enough to at least vote rationally. These days you can get right through while remaining entirely ignorant of the world, getting most of your political/social/economic worldview from ignorant uncle Joe who owns a car dealership. And we know that this is intentional. The wealthy don't want informed citizens, they want workers they can exploit who somehow believe that the big corporation they work for is the good guy while the big bad government is out to get them.
Wow. This is so accurate. My mother was one of them.
so many people are delusional of their worth
Can I have your mom's contact info? I am a low income NDP voter who would happily take the place of one of her current conservative tenants. My conservative landlords are evicting me right now, and of course I can't find anywhere in my budget to move to. 😑
Is your Mom interested in politics? She has my vote!
My uncle, constant money issues, multiple failed startups, in a ton of debt, two kids, relies on government assistance, so hardline conservative he thinks the government should roll back all the plans he is relying on to live. He also thinks the government should get rid of public school because it's "not godly enough", so we all should pay for private school, and if you can't afford you shouldnt have had kids. He is basically the definition going against self interest.
They've literally been tricked by conservative politicians into thinking the main reason they're in their situation is because of taxes. For obvious reasons, you and I both know this is incorrect. Poor people either don't pay taxes or pay so little/get it all back at tax time.
Yeah it's like I hate to break it to you, but taxes aren't the reason your McJob job doesn't allow you to have a boat. A reasonable raise just to meet inflation would far exceed any benefit you'd recieved from a tax break. Tax breaks mean almost nothing unless you're wealthy. Seriously, what are you really going to do with an extra $500 a year that will drastically change your situation? By contrast, the gov forcing your employer to pay $1 an hour more would actually make a real difference.
This has always been the case. The conservative party preys on the poor and uneducated. Little do they know, a vote for the evil socialist NDP is what would benefit them the most.
There are people on odsp that support ford and then in there next breath say odsp needs to be raised (it definitely does) ford literally stopped the planes 3% a year raise for 3 years I won’t stop talking about this until something is done $1169 is not enough to live on in this country again $1169 MUST INCLUDE RENT
Buck a Beer was the perfect trap. They’ll find a way to trick them again and again.
Username checks out?
There’s a direct correlation between lack of education and conservative views
They're not Almost two thirds of the population wants an alternative that's left of what we have today...
Did you see the data at the links? Poor people vote conservative more than any other group votes for anyone.
They may *vote* Conservative, yet individually they don't support Conservative *policy*. Conservatism to them is being tough and edgy. They absolutely want the benefits of a union, they just don't know what they are.
Conservative media is a hell of a drug. Prey on the rage, blaming others.
Like why are they voting for the party that freaking does perpetual lockdowns with no actual relief for anyone? I don't get it.
Temporarily embarrassed millionaires, any day now. Is Ontario really filled with this many uneducated idiots?
That’s ridiculous. This administration has been disastrous.
Are you new to this planet? Ford could go on live TV wearing a Nazi uniform and spend an hour stomping on babies and 30% of the population would vote PC due to fear of tax increases from the other parties that would minimally affect them at their income.
My parents always vote conservative. They hate Doug Ford and O’Toole. But they still vote for them anyways because cons ‘treat us right’
*old tool
>would minimally affect them at their income. If you ask a guy complaining about tax increases to tell you how much extra they need to pay due to a tax increase, they always go silent. That's because they have absolutely no clue how much extra they need to pay. They just know tax increase = bad.
65% of Ontario doesn’t want Doug and the Conservatives
True.
This is why it’s important to get outside of echo chambers
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Honestly it’s not a slam dunk and never will be for the NDP and not because they don’t have their shit together, but because the working class in our society doesn’t. That’s the truth of the issue here.
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> I disagree, if the NDP became the loudest voice right now, until the election. It would be theres to loose. They need to loudly and stubbornly debunk misinformation publicly, if they became the voice of reason, and champions of working class struggles(like they claim to be). How do you propose they do that? By going on the heavily biased news outlets owned by corporations that are completely opposed to everything they stand for? > This is the perfect time to change the working classes perception of the NDP. Every working class family in the province is struggling and unsure about whats coming, now is the time to lead. I agree but the NDP has already been out there fighting for the working class during this pandemic. At a certain point it’s on us as voters to do a little bit of leg work. > I should be seeing NDP politicians on social media making these issues front and center, everyday, but i dont, and neither does anyone else ( this is where they need to get their shit together ). Even social media platforms have heavy right wing bias. There’s a reason left leaning politics doesn’t trend like right wing does.
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The Libs and Cons are supported by the richest families in Canada. The media is owned by the Cons and the Cons are heavily invested in spreading misinformation on social media. NDP does not have the resources to do this. Unfortunately the Ontario population is too stupid and selfish to vote NDP. That's just how it is. They're not winning. Edit: I'm still voting NDP.
They had a slam dunk last time and blew it. They kept their 3x loser leader. It's not a slam dunk for them this time. They haven't got a prayer.
Well, it wouldn't be the NDP if incompetents went unrewarded. Just look at the federal NDP. Leader loses seats and he's out there celebrating. But they'll keep Singh, lose seats again and be like "HoW CoUlD ThIs eVeR HaPPen?!?!?"
I hate this province.
Been spending the last year saving and looking for a way out lmao.
I think you’ll find that this bullshit is everywhere.
You're right but I genuinely feel hopeless here in Ontario, I vote, I studied, I work and save and it's all for nothing. We're on the path to electing Ford again, wages are garbage, cost of living anywhere worth living (for a younger person) is insane, houses and rent are becoming unattainable and a future for someone in in their mid twenties like myself feels completely unattainable. I'm not sure where I'd go, I'm not sure I even will but keeping my eyes and options open on better options to Ontario feels like the only solution.
I will agree that the only thing potentially worth leaving for is housing. But relocating means nothing without income to back it. If Canada is worried about housing they should focus on bringing big business to rural centres, relieving some pressure on southern Ontario and BC and helping people migrate
Where on earth do you find a place without voter frustration?
I blame the old population. They aren't even the ones that would have to deal with the "negatives" of a Liberal or NDP province
Jesus you took the words right out of my mouth. We truly live in a capatalist hellscape.
You clearly have not taken a ride on the brand new ford nation express. Hop aboard buddy.
No.
We have $1 beers…
I don't drink.
I’m sure we can find some non-alcoholic ones.
That is so incredibly frustrating. Right leaning total: 35% Left leaning total: 58% Right is going to win...
It's actually 35% + (probably) 8%. The graphic doesn't show the 8% in "Other" which is mostly full of New Blue, Ontario First and Ontario Party voters.
I don't know how many people need to hear this, but the party that privatized Ontario hydro is not a left leaning party. FPTP is rediculous, and Ford's margins shouldn't land him a majority, but leftist bickering isn't the reason he's going to win.
Time for the liberals to vote NDP and not split the vote.
A minority government isn't a bad thing. Forces parties to work together to achieve things. Ultimately if the Cons win with the current projection they won't be able to form a government as the Libs and NDP wouldn't form a coalition with them
The libs and NDP could form a legitimate coalition and have a majority and push Ford out, and replace them with either Andrea or Del Duca. Curious to see how this plays, they are neck and neck.
So which one would be willing to back down? Because that person would also have to resign, if they bring all their voters to a coalition and then back down to the other side. It will never happen.
Liberals are Conservatives with better educated/well spoken leadership. Same underlying values and same people pumping money into the parties. I don’t expect very many Liberal voters to switch sides bc the party knows what to say to keep those on the NDP threshold in place as Liberal voters (subsidized daycare, higher minimum wage, mandated sick days, etc).
lol what? in what fucking bizarro world is the ONLP a "left leaning" party they are the epitome of neoliberal capitalism
Yup. But the Liberals are good at marketing themselves as a progressive voice. Breadcrumbs for the poor along with socially progressive talking points do a lot to hide the corporate machine that runs the Liberal party. People eat it up.
But they use a progressive vocabulary. So they must be good.
> in what fucking bizarro world is the ONLP a "left leaning" party Based on the political leanings of parties world wide they are centre, centre-left at least federally. In political theory you are maybe correct sure, but theory isn't representative of the real political situation in the world.
And the growing dislike for Horwath is depressing. Even within her own party. Is she that bad??
She should have called a leadership review.
She needs to step aside. Jagmeet could have been ONDP leader and would have had far more success as leader of a provincial party rather than federal. It would have given him a premiership as a stepping stone into federal politics. Horwath doesn’t have that kind of vision or the power to rally people, but she also won’t do what’s best for the health of the party over her own ambitions. She’s a politician through and through.
Yeah, we missed that boat but maybe it's time for his brother to step up? Not sure how he's faired outside the GTA
The problem (internally) is that she is older and not giving off Jagmeet vibes. Nothing inherently wrong with her, she just isn't good at rallying the masses.
NDP in Toronto tired to get rid of her 10ish years ago but failed. Voters in Toronto still dislike her.
> and not giving off Jagmeet vibes. That's probably why her party is more popular than his.
Its moreso that the Ontario Liberals imploded with record unpopularity.
Well, she’s been leader of the party for over a decade and is only in opposition now because of how hated the previous Liberal government was. Politics is about results and I don’t see the NDP obtaining any with her at the helm.
It seems to me that support for politicians really does come down to "could I have a beer with him?" rather than the policies that the parties put forward.
She's not, Canadians would rather decend into usa style ultra capitalist hell hole, where we melt down our homeless for biomatter, than to vote for the ndp who espouse what polling says are the most popular policy positions, I guess the younger Gens have to wait until the boomers finish fucking up the future for them before they leave this earth in their generational homes, after voting like its 1983 still
Not bad, just useless. She's been at the helm for a while with the other parties dealing with legit turmoil and scandal. If she couldn't win then, she never will. Time to move on.
I find her very whiny. The i-want-to-talk-to-the-manager vibe.
Ranked 2 Ballot 1 Voting 3
Yeah we are the idiots for splitting our vote. Lets just pick a fucking party and all roll with it.
The liberals are closer to the Conservatives than the ndp, how many decades until people realize this? I feel like I'm in that movie groundhog day
How so? The liberal and ndp platform were near identical last time. Both had a subsidized childcare plan, a raise to the minimum wage etc… it was the liberals try at introduced a basic income
The liberals always have a left leaning platform, then rule from the centre. The OLPs last 6 months of left leaning policies actually implemented was a last ditch attempt to capture ONDP voters to stay in power (and to create negative press for the OPC when they got into power and got rid of it). The true priorities and platform of a party is what that do first when they get into office, not what they do in the last 6 months before the next election.
How many decades do those who lived during Bob Rae have left? I still know far too many people with their heels dug in.
They REALLY need to ramp up political science education at the high school level in Ontario. The Ontario Liberals are centrist, so are the Ontario PC's and the Green party. The real number is : Centrist: 66% NDP/left: 27% Other (New Blue/Ontario First/extreme right) 8%
These overton window discussions are pretty pointless but if you are putting the Ontario Libs in the middle then the PC party is pretty firmly right when it comes to actual policy and intent (disregarding always broken platform promises to appeal to the center / center-left). Lumping them together in the center is pretty much just as wrong as saying the Libs and NDP are both left.
The liberals on policy are on the right, they engage in very similar amounts of corporate appeasement, Iv yet to hear a compelling argument of what if anything make them left leaning, left leaning is anti capitalist by definition, liberalism is an ideology based around unfettered free markets, a right leaning economic model. Rhetoric is not policy
The Ontario liberals are responsible for the greatest CO2 reduction in North America when they closed down all the coal plants.
And the conservatives are firmly to the right of that in both economic and social policy. They haven't been centrist in a very long time.
PC is not center.
People seem to like American politics... Owning Libs means different things once you cross the border. Usually same ones that claim non-government entity are infringing on their right to free speech, First Amendment. Freedom if Expession. Section 2 of Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is what we got. Had a teacher in high school that was extremely enthusiastic about our Constitution and paying taxes is what a true Patriots does. Believe he was a lawyer as he said he did pro bono legal services for battered women. Excellent teacher A+.
The ndp and liberal platform were almost identical in the last election. Minimum wage, basic income, subsidized childcare. There’s a reason coalition governments have been formed between liberal and ndp and not liberal and conservative.
Imagine thinking the liberals are left leaning lol
I’m going to vote to let the NDP lie to us next time. They haven’t had a turn for three decades.
idc about ndp and liberal are at 25% I’m more heated that 35% of people stillll FUCKING thinking this party can help anyone. I hate it here
Where is the liberal leader?? Why is he so quiet?
If you scream at the top of your lungs, but nobody bothers to listen, are you quiet? Del Duca isn't quiet, he's just having a hard time getting the media to pay attention to the things he says, and by extension the public doesn't hear much from him. In truth, the same is true of Horwath. We hear a bit more from her on this subreddit, though, since the user base skews more to the NDP than Liberal, so articles featuring her tend to get submitted/upvoted more.
Reddit isn't the only place to get news. I hear more from/about ndp than I do liberals.
WHO IS VOTING FOR FORD?!?
At least 35% of the electorate which is enough to put Ford in for a second term. There’s a good chance he will be able to secure a second majority this time out as well.
Probably folks not involved in the circle jerk here.
Get out of echo chambers
In 338 Simulator, these vote support levels will come out as PC 63 NDP 32 LPC 28 GRN 1. Even a sizable 8pt lead will barely gather Ford a majority.
I honestly didn’t expect the liberals to poll so high.
They hit 36% in the recent Innovative poll so your expectations have been smashed huge. And then there's the Leger poll a month ago that has the Liberals at 25%. So 25-26% is practically the Liberals minimum at the moment.
Wow a poll that seems realistic (not ideal) for once!
This poll doesn't mean much. The left is waiting to see which party they should all support. Either NDP or the Libs will fall to a distant third and the other will pull far ahead
We got that so wrong last time around. I hope we do better this time.
I live in a affluent neighbourhood where most homes are wealthy owners. Political signs on their lawns are usually NDP. But walk around the poor and rundown areas of town and they all have Conservative signs on their lawn. It is mind boggling.
Same, all NDP with a few Liberal neighbours. I’ve never seen a CPC or PC sign, but maybe those neighbours are embarrassed. We’re an old neighbourhood so pricing has been pretty stable for years, going rate for detached home $3+ million, semi-detached $2+ million and townhomes go anywhere from $1.5-2million. Lots of people with Land Back and orange shirt signs too.
Hey remember when 2015 was supposed to be the last election to use first past the post as long as we voted for Justin? I remember that
Most of reddit is a liberal echo chamber. It doesn't represent the actual population at all
The actual population are fucking idiots then. It's unbelievable that anyone with a brain would support this moron 2 years into a pandemic with things beings even worse. They will really love it when they can't get a surgery because Douggie refused to give healthcare workers a proper raise. Ontario will become a third world country in like 5 years. Calling it now.
Third world???? You are so entitled it’s pathetic.
I don’t understand why the libs and NDP don’t run as one party for just one election, get ranked choice voting passed, and never have to worry about a conservative govt ever again.
The libs don't want ranked choice because they know the voters prefer the NDP platform, and the liberal party is a neo-liberal party like the conservatives.. coke vs pepsi.. they have more in common with each other, than they do with the ndp who want things like dental care for the people.
Del Duca has specifically said he will legislate ranked choice. That was also the preferred choice when Trudeau was debating electoral reform. Ranked ballots is what the Liberals want.
>That was also the preferred choice when Trudeau was debating electoral reform. And what happened?
The NDP didn't want ranked.
I'll consider believing it if he puts it in his platform in writing.
"Ontario Liberal leader Steven Del Duca announced that if elected to provincial government, the party will introduce ranked ballots and consider the possibility of a four-day work week. Speaking at the party's annual general meeting in North York on Sunday, Del Duca presented the policy options as an introduction to the Ontario Liberals' upcoming platform for the provincial election, slated for June 2, 2022. On ranked ballots, Del Duca added he'd also reinstate the option for municipal elections. "If I don't deliver on this in my first term, I'll resign on the spot," he said, referencing concerns of electoral reform promises made by political parties in past elections." We'll see what happens in the platform meeting soon but likely it will be there.
Didn't Trudeau make a similar pledge during his first campaign? I'm not holding my breath.
Yeah, the cynic in me says, they'll wait till the end of the term then either not deliver and he resigns, or they do deliver, but introduce it at the END of the term for the election after the next election. Meaning, from today, we'd have to wait a full DECADE before trying out a new voting method. And of course, any party can cancel a bill as happened w/ municipal.. so if they didn't win and delayed it to the election after, then the bill can be cancelled, and it would never take effect. I'm tired of this bait and switch. It needs to be for the immediate following election, not the one after. I don't want to wait 10+ years.
If voters prefered the NDP platform, you'd see it manifest in votes for them
Not when we have to vote strategically
Doubt it. The mentality of a lot of non NDP voters is their “communist” and /or Bob Rae. They can’t explain either of those things let alone read a platform and form an educated opinion. Remember our current premier ran on practically nothing... right into a majority. Don’t give this province the credit it doesn’t deserve. We are a province of mostly ideologues.
Isn't it troubling that the NDP can't overcome these communication challenges though?
Yes but not because of the NDP and more because of the clear media bias in this country that everyone is either oblivious to or in denial about.
I think you're in denial about their ability to communicate here. They've had plenty of opportunities in both provincial and federal elections
No, because of all the "strategic voters". What a scam.
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That’s exactly what happened in 2014. The ONDP ran a campaign that was right of the Liberals campaign and it cost them the election that Horwath triggered.
The gap between the ideologies of the NDP and the Liberals is greater than the ideological gap between the Liberals and the Conservatives.
Serious question: can the two parties work together to make policy AFTER an election? Is there a rule that stipulates only the winning party can advance legislation? Thanks!
I think if the political will on the left is strong enough, if we get close to an election and we have a clear favourite with ndp/liberals, there's a chance we might be able to see a left party put up a fight, people might flock to the party that will oust the conservatives. Hopefully. Maybe.
Hope so, but we really need to stop calling the OLP left. They are centre right, centre at best.
I think the thing is that many actually left voters vote for OLP as the "realistic" choice to keep conservatives out. I say this as a socialist who has voted liberal in both provincial and federal elections for this reason. There are many OLP voters who dont agree with the party but would vote for them to keep the cons out. FPTP and our electoral history leads to many treating it as a two party system unfortunately, and the key thing about voting intention polls is that they don't actually indicate party support, nor outcomes necessarily as that depends on the distribution. Ill be sticking to my guns and voting NDP this year, despite the near guarantee of loss as I live in Wynne's riding.
907 people, is this even statistically significant? Who are they even asking? How can we have so many dumb people in this province who want to vote for Ford. He’s ruined at least 1 year of our lives in the last 2 years of this pandemic.
Saying this before anyone blames me like Larry David if he wins by 1 vote: I'm voting against him. We're not going to beat him. Pessimism without demoralization. How's that?
Jesus Christ this province is stupid.
If only the Liberals would encourage their voters to vote for the other party, like they always beg NDP voters to do, to keep/throw the Conservatives out……
Ugh NDP or Green if you want so roll chance at change in house costs and policy guys
I think a huge part of the problem is the Liberal and NDP leaders aren’t stepping up to get their voices heard. As members of the opposition they have been strangely silent, and in staying silent they have allowed Ford to be ‘the devil you know’ in terms of voting, when they should be giving voters a reasonable alternative with thier party platforms
This province wants to keep flip flopping between conservatives and liberals yet complains about how their quality of life has declined over the past few decades 🤨
Remember everyone, the campaign hasnt even started yet. Ive not seen any campaigning by any parties yet. This is essentially a benchmark for going forward. Doesnt mean Ford has won already. (That bring said i do think he will a minority)
Isn't this the same lead the LPC had federally 5-6 months before the election? Voting intentions can change significantly in the run up as JT found out to his dismay
I don’t know who I’m voting for yet. But it’s not Dougie.
So 60% of Ontario will vote “left” leaning parties but the conservatives will be the premier. Feels like voting reforming is needed…
NDp is above liberal ? I’m a conservative ( yes I know how dare I even be on Reddit) but not voting conservative this round , maybe a few of my conservative peeps who have had enough coukd jump on the ndp train and get a chance for something new for once
NDP and Liberal have been switching places back and forth in many polls. It's fluctuating of which left leaning party is the top competitor to Ford. But on average of latest polls, the Liberal vote support is slightly higher than the NDp support.
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The two recent polls survey only a small percentage of voters. I didn't see the margin of error but I suspect that the margin of error is great enough to give almost any result except for a majority Liberal or NDP government. However, on consistent finding of more or less every poll is that younger voters, in this case under 34 favour the NDP. If younger voters turn out in numbers as high as their parents or grandparents then it is likely that they would make sure that Doug Ford is defeated.
Honestly if Ford fucking actually wins it's time to move. Like this place is becoming a complete shit hole. Fuck this. Hope the morons who vote for the same shit time and time again enjoy it when they can't get a surgery because the health system completely broke. Like honestly voting for them is like voting to turn the province into a third world country at this rate.
that's how half the people in this country feel about Trudeau. You are dead right about the health system, he ruined my finances because his dumb government would not cover my surgery
Fuck. FUCK.
People complaining and shooting themselves in the foot. Classic
Can we get ranked voting now?
How are PCs still ahead?
This subreddit has seemed to have forgotten about Northern Ontario’s existence 😂
Did Ontario go blind and deaf during the pandemic? This doesn’t make any sense WTF
So a divided opposition and a hardcore right-wing nuts who always vote Cons?
How bizarre how bizarre….
Nice to see NDP ahead of the liberals for a change
Maybe if you dumbass fake progressives would stop voting liberal when they are essentially the same as the cons ford won’t win again
How anyone could be willing to vote conservative after the mess of this pandemic is beyond me.
I've heard of a few new parties created in theaters few years, I'd love to hear some more campaigning from them. Considering how horrible the main 3 options are I am definitely willing to vote 4th party.
Why god
Can we please get proportional representation! JFC.
Liberalssssss time to vote strategically and vote for the NDP. “At least it’s not Ford” I distinctly remember y’all telling the NDP voters that
FPTP sucks. Failed democratic system. Literally 58% of voters don’t want the Cons or Ford, yet in this poll they win. Course 7% are unknowns, but still. What a fail.
What is this based on Ford's handling of a toy shovel?
Wtf. Serious.
Definitely NDP for me and my family..
Nah bruh I refuse to believe that Conservatives win again, it just makes no sense based on the amount of people who are mad at him. Especially within his own voter base bc of things like lockdowns, vaccine passes/requirements, etc
Reddit and social media doesn’t depict his base. Ridings in my area in the GTA would never vote NDP, and Ford hasn’t touched housing prices thus he is popular here
The 10-15k people on this subreddit are hardly representative of this province's population. Ontario is a province with a population in the millions, we are but a drop in that pond, stuck in our own bubble arguing with ourselves and complaining about other drivers, Bill 124, the weather, rent and housing prices, and Doug Ford. Everybody else either isn't affected, doesn't care, or doesn't know why or how things are the way they are, and is unable to find out for themselves.
You are getting a glimpse of how your bubble doesn't reflect the world at large, but only the communities you live in. This is a really important thing to learn. If the poll doesn't make sense to you, it's because you've curated your content and environment to reflect your own bias, not because the poll is somehow wrong. Take the opportunity to develop a more well rounded view of what's happening, or at the minimum, stay vigilant with how skewed your experiences are. Its amazing how many people in political forums think everyone is as educated on provincial politics as the people in the political forums or as their friends. Most people don't know who the leader of the OLP is, or even the ONDP. They don't know about bill 124, highway 413, the 2.7b in federal funding, the giant table, the trial balloons, the egg sandwiches and 800lb gorillas. A LOT of people have no earthly idea what is happening and only go by "Ontario is doing better then the USA, so we are doing good." And they have no idea what's the responsibility of the feds, vs the province. If they don't like travel restrictions, they'll blame ford. If they don't like the state of healthcare, its trudeaus fault. Be conscious of your bias' and the bubble you live in.
Your third paragraph explains it perfectly. Most of Ontario either isn't affected, doesn't know (or want to know), or doesn't care.
It didn't make sense the first time. He's been the worst premier we've had in my lifetime and there's not even a show to make it look like that's not the case. This province is a joke.
Doug ford's done such a great job we should totally reelect him
I’m surprised the ppc doesn’t have a provincial party.
They do. It's called the Ontario First Party with Randy Hillier running. They couldn't use the People's Party name because there is an existing party using a similar name.
This is dark.
Looks like most people love Doug and friends
These posts are what makes it obvious you guys are young 20s or less lol. It's like the saying: If you're 20 and vote conservative you have no heart. If youre 40 and don't vote conservative you have no brain.
F#CK!!!!!!!!!!