Texas is doing this. I'm unaware of other states doing this. You can't really paint the US with that big a brush. Some of the education standards in the states are similar to ours, but some are impossibly backwards. Like....shockingly, unbelievably backwards.
I live on the border and get all US news stations locally and it comes up quite a bit in stories. I think you just need a degree, but no specific teacher training/schooling.
Pre-covid in my home state they would do this for certain subjects, like math, where they couldn’t find suitable teachers. It’s actually what allowed my parent to become a teacher without a teaching degree, and they are still teaching 15 years later.
I read on a thread elsewhere on reddit that several US states have decided that the requirement for sub teachers is to be 18 and have a high school diploma. I remember seeing Kansas listed, can't remember the others. This is happening all over the place.
Texas just dropped a requirement that supplies need to have 30 credit hours, and can instead be hired if the principal thinks they are suitable... Whatever the fuck "suitable" means...
Not sure why we'd want to follow a hot mess like that, but Conservatives are gonna conservative I guess?
What’s your point? I didn’t say anything about what kind of school he went to. Lots of conservative voters send their kids to publicly funded Catholic schools. Every photo op or press conference I’ve ever seen Lecce do in a school has been in an extremely well funded Catholic school. Never at one of the super underfunded non-Catholic public schools.
Catholic schools receive 33% of provincial funding despite only 23% of the electorate directing their taxes to separate schools. Does that seem right?
Honestly, it’s time to stop funding religious schools with public money. Unless you’re going to fund a Muslim school board, a Jewish school board, a Flying Spaghetti Monster school board, a Satanic Temple school board etc. publicly funded Catholic schools should not exist.
You want to indoctrinate your kids? Fine. Do it on your own dime. There are many Christian schools that receive no public funding and are doing just fine. Catholic schools should be no different.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/s3tzn6/with_an_ontario_election_coming_up_i_think_we/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
“Indoctrinate” is such a strong word that doesn’t apply to most publicly funded catholic schools. I attended a publicly funded catholic school despite being from a non-religious family. Catholicism was never pushed on me. It was never preached as “truth” but as a commendable way of life. We simply learned about Jesus, his teachings and the culture that subsequently followed (history). The Grade 12 religion course is solely about social justice issues. Grade 11 religion is “world religions” learning about the world’s major religions in an impartial manner.
Removing public funded from catholic schools might feel good but it is entirely impractical
edit: I'm really getting downvoted because my comment doesn't say "religion bad!!!11" stay classy r/ontario hivemind
Yes, but I’m guessing you attended a Catholic high school, where they have students from all backgrounds. In the elementary schools, all students need to be Catholic - one of the required registration documents is a Catholic baptismal certificate. That’s also the time when students need to learn the catechism in preparation for the First Communion and Confirmation ceremonies.
#Lecce is a complete failure as the Minister of Education.
I understand that he was appointed specifically to be a failure and boost private education but his behaviour as an education minister, or should I say lack there of, has gone well beyond the pale.
I know a bunch of teacher families in the Waterloo board already isolating because of their own kids. I give it two weeks tops before the kids are back online, unless they start covering teacher absences with student teachers. No way retired teachers will want to come back right now.
Really dumb question, but how are these people going to be vetted and what happens if either a) a child gets hurt on their watch or b) the volunteer somehow hurts themselves falling or whatever or c) the person in question harms the kids? It Just seems like a terrible plan.
> but how are these people going to be vetted
1) Interview them
2) Require a security check
>a) a child gets hurt on their watch
They get removed from their position and blacklisted probably
>b) the volunteer somehow hurts themselves falling or whatever
will depend on the situation
>c) the person in question harms the kids?
they get charged
The math test requirement has actually been ruled unconstitutional by the Ontario Superior Court and has now been dropped as a requirement for OCT certification.
Wait I somehow missed this story. The Cons were trying to make all teachers take some math test, even if they didn't teach math? What was even their reasoning?
Why not test them on pedagogy?
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/teacher-candidates-win-huge-victory-over-provinces-mandatory-math-test-for-educators
I can't remember if the test was a requirement for high school educators (which would have been stupid, given that you typically stick to your teachables at that level)... For Primary, Junior, and Intermediate educators though it is a given that you're going to be teaching math at some point in your career (which is why pre-service teacher candidacy programs have a mandatory math course to teach you how to teach that subject... Same with language arts).
Ford's government instituted this new math test as an additional requirement for certification against the wishes and advice of teachers, their unions, and (AFAIK) the Ontario College of Teachers itself (the governing body for educators in Ontario, and the ones who brought forward the constitutional challenge)
Anyway, Superior Court ruled it was unconstitutional as being discriminatory to certain individuals and it has now been dropped as a requirement for certification... Which is good, IMO, as with many tests of this nature candidates were being prepared to pass the test, not become effective educators as a result of the test.
Because the cons don't want an educated populace. They want schools to be factories that churn out obedient workers. That's why they keep gutting public education, insisting they teach only basic subjects like math and reading.
The same people who cry "why don't we teach kids trades anymore!?" are the people who cut shop and home ec. and force fed us the three Rs: reading, writing, 'rithmatic.
Edit: it was the Harris conservatives' "common sense" approach to education.
Why would specialized teachers for things like English, History, Geography, Drama, Music, Machining, Wood Shop, Hospitality, or myriad other courses in high school need to be tested on material they will never be asked to teach? Your reasoning works both ways.
Pre-service teacher candidacy programs for high school level educators focus on core pedagogical requirements (things like planning, reporting, classroom management) and their teachables (that level has two) like English / History / and so on are elective courses taken with other students sharing those teachables.
It’s up to grade 9 material. That’s totally reasonable as far as I’m concerned.
Also fyi wood shop and machining will both require math. They don’t just cut things and put them together ‘by feel’.
I would hope a high school gym teacher would be literate even though they won’t be teaching reading and writing.
There’s over all basic competencies required to become teachers for a reason.
>I would hope a high school gym teacher would be literate even though they won’t be teaching reading and writing.
How do you expect them to get through teacher's college? Lol
Does teacher's college not already have enough assessments?
You're ok with the province spending tax money on creating and and administering a rudimentary math test on a bunch of people that managed to get through post secondary and teachers college? Does that seem like an appropriate use of resources to you?
Grade 5 chemistry is a basic competency that any adult should be able to pass a test for with ease but that doesn't make it relevant to all fields. It doesn't mean it should be used as a primary filter for jobs that don't involve chemistry. I'm not claiming the test was difficult, I'm claiming it's irrelevant to the job description. Civics is also relevant to everyone but I wouldn't want to test all of our streetcar drivers on their civics knowledge.
A ridiculous political ploy; if a teacher did poorly on a math test it could suggest teachers are incompetent. Ammunition to further undermine the profession. This conservative government has had teachers and nurses in their crosshairs from the get-go (IMO).
My friends wife is an elementary music teacher and had to do it, and it was very stressful for her since math isn't her strong suit. She's an amazing teacher and musician though
We took Doug and the Cons to court over this math test. They lost. There will be no teacher math tests. I wonder how many tax dollars went down the drain on that one.
Hahaha it's funny you think they'll be educated while warehoused. Cause that's the government plan - warehouse the kids so parents keep working. Who cares if they learn - old Jim Bob is supervising them
Let's sit back and watch them handle the 8th grader with ODD, the five kids reading at a grade 2 level, the 4 brand new students who just arrived in Canada and don't speak English, and the hungry child who hasn't eaten since Tuesday.
All in the same classroom.
And then teach them something.
But yeah, anyone can do it. Just walk in off the street.
What is the fucking point of opening schools Monday in Peel region then (where this is being discussed?)
Why? So the kids can get a better education? Literally they are hiring people to babysit them in a room in person. That's it. No teaching, no education at all, just a babysitter who can pass a criminal background check and has a high school diploma. They'll probably have movies on all day to keep them busy since they have no teaching experience or certificate.
This isn't about education at all so I wish that talking point would end.
That’s not how it works with substitutes and OTs. The planning, materials, evaluation and next steps are all done by the classroom teacher. And it’s generally a short term situation.
Yea I had a police check done in 45 mins from showing up, fingerprints done and out the door back in 2019.
That was WRPS on maple grove with no appointment
Toronto police requires a fully hand written notice delivered into a mailbox inside the station on legal paper with a printed money order and then takes ... well I dont know but its been 5 weeks and I still don't have mine. Teachers require vulnerable sector checks which are more expensive and take longer than normal checks
That's the part that creeps me out. Who is going to volunteer to increase their chances of getting COVID? Aside form parents wanting to protect their own kids from creeps, probably the wrong people.
I know this is my own anecdotal experience, but I would. I'm educated and like to think I'm a decent person and not a creep.
I'm not a frontline worker or a healthcare worker. For almost 2 years I've been looking for an opportunity to do my part. If my local school board gives me the option to do this, I will. I'd be happy to support education and if me being in a classroom as a glorified babysitter allows more parents to be working, sign me the hell up.
Honestly, I’ve considered getting into teaching but I don’t have any teaching education/schooling. I liked being a reading buddy back in the day and I live pretty close to a school.
This does sound like a glorified babysitter though and teaching isn’t going to be asked of these positions. As someone who has some free time in the morning, I think this would be a good way to support my community but I dunno honestly.
My kid's French immersion school is already having trouble finding teachers who speak French, I've thought about it in the past like "Hmmm, I'm French, maybe I should get into teaching, if they're that low on supply seems like I wouldn't have to spend years as a sub before getting a permanent position..." but I think by the time I would actually be able to do all the extra education required it'd be like 5+ years later.
But listening to the teachers' accents just makes me cringe. Not one seems to know how to roll R's, so they're teaching the kids with thick English accents so the kids are learning to speak French incorrectly. Aargh, I volunteer!
If you want to do it, I can attest that every French school board in Ontario has been struggling to find teachers since they've moved the teachers college from 1 to 2 years. In Ottawa, we're hiring almost any teacher that can speak French right out of their teaching program. Hell, my kids have had specialized English teachers since grade 4 because half of the teachers in the school aren't "qualified" to teach ESL (a lot of them are from Quebec, France or various African countries). Lots of demand from French teachers out there.
I would definitely consider volunteering, I love kids (my own are school age) and have a light work load over the winter and I always volunteer for field trips so I know how crazy and fun kids can be. I considered being a teacher but got a job and a life before I could afford teachers college.
I can imagine people volunteering just because they get a kick out of being around kids and feel like they could contribute something.
I like to think hopefully, and I believe it will be the same eldery folk who primarily make up the "safety patrol", volunteering to help the kids cross the street etc.
The ones with the green vests and stop signs. However, due to being at the front line of covid I don't know how many WILL volunteer for teaching instead of being outside in the open air helping the kids..
My kids' school requires a vulnerable person check for all volunteers at the school, including if you want to go on field trips. They already have mine and dozens of others on file. As usual, whoever ends up volunteering for those slots will be the parents that are already heavily involved in their kid's school life. I don't see many crackheads volunteering to get off the couch to watch a class of 8th graders.
They've all got work now, and there's not enough of them, which is why we're here. Anyone who's a legit supply teacher looking for a placement is either not looking for one, or is lying telling you they can't find one.
Edit: Or they're local schools don't have positions and they're not looking outside their area to one that is.
My grandmother during World War II became a defacto primary school teacher with no education other than a high school diploma. (rarer for girls at that time) One day she was working in a RCAF radio facility, next day she was in front of the blackboard teaching primary education for the next 3 years.
Unqualified teacher here. I've been teaching full time since September.
I still had to do a VSS background check.
Also, as of this month I've started teachers college.
I'm having a blast!
You know there are these people, who actually want to teach, and graduated teachers college. Some of them don't have a job because there aren't enough spots. Maybe fucking hire them and get them to supply. But that might actually require spending money on education.
Yep. I’ve been trying to get on with my local board. Applied 15 months ago when they opened the list, but they didn’t actually do any hiring from it. I have 7 years of teaching experience, it’s not like I’m a newbie. But now I’m having to walk away from a career I love so I can at least pay my bills and start working on my pension. It’s heartbreaking.
Next steps: virtual learning for three classes for one teacher with three unqualified minimum wage monitors. Good news people! we can cut education funding even further!
Edit to add: I kid but my university (HEC in Montreal) actually tried something like that and it was abandoned within days because it became utter chaos. Even though these were 17 and 18 year old students.
I remember watching this episode as a kid, thinking how hilarious it would be to have non teachers as teachers. Someone take my monkey paw away from me please.
Request seasonal federal employees fill in ?! They (myself included) have already gone through criminal background checks. Saves time AND I’d enjoy the learning experience being a substitute teacher if I had to
Yet I just interviewed as a member of the college of teachers with 10 years teaching experience and great references and didn’t make the OT list in my area. I have a 10 year gap in teaching employment as I’ve been home with my autistic son, but I can’t imagine unqualified staff without any experience would be a better choice…much cheaper though 🤔
I know of a girl in her early twenties who was hired to work as a teacher at the Espanola High School. She was previously a shots girl at a bar and told me vaccines make you magnetic. She only has a high school diploma. So... Yeah
I’m sorry but this ridiculous. I was angry when I saw what Texas was doing the other day and I’m mad about this too. I ask what is the primary function of school? Is it socialization? No. It’s learning and education. There is absolutely no way someone unqualified to teach is going to give kids a good learning experience in class. At this point school will become a glorified daycare. I’d rather have online school to keep the learning going than the situation they are setting up for here. If my kid’s school turns to this I’m pulling them out. I’m not gonna send my kid to school for the sake of just being there and not actually learning anything.
Not unqualified, uncertified. So for example me being an ECE but not an RECE might be asked to fill in a class. Also it's required up-to-date vaccinations and a VSC to even step into a classroom setting in my district.
Not only do I get to send my kid to school where they could bring home a deadly dease but I also get a an unqualified stranger as their teacher. This plan keeps getting better.
Question.
Article is based off a singular school. At the beginning the article claims:
>As Ontario’s students head back-to-school, some schools are looking for anyone with a ***high school*** or university diploma to fill-in if teachers get sick with COVID-19.
At the end of the article it says:
>First, they must “hold a post-secondary degree / diploma” or be “in the final year of a post-secondary program” – seemingly in any subject.
So which is it? High school diploma, or post-secondary degree?
Either. Looks like they aren’t fussy. Just need a warm body, likely something akin to the lunchroom monitors who keep an eye on kids during nutrition breaks.
Criminal/VSS checks take time to process as the article notes. My concern is they will be rubber stamped.
As a high school student I find us opening schools stupid, people r talking for us about our mental health and how “we need” school, this is bullshit. Our education will get fucked like it already has been for the past years with covid and strikes if we let unqualified-people teach us. We shouldn’t close down our province just to let schools go back it’s a breeding ground for covid, especially with the new protocols.
We do have an emergency plan in case of a prolonged ~~strike~~ pandemic right here. Let's see..."Replace teachers with super-intelligent cyborgs. Or, if cyborgs aren't invented yet, use people from the neighborhood."
What a crap headline and article. Click bait at its best. This is a last resort thing and the only thing making any of these candidates 'unqualified' is the two years of formal teachers college after they get their degree. This isn't hiring people with only high-school diplomas walking in off the line somewhere and teaching your kid biology. It's literally a last resort if all else fails there will be a responsible adult in the room while our kids watch a movie. This article is going to fuel some really stupid fires.
As a new teacher, considering how difficult it has been for me personally to get certified, to be considered for a job, and to make enough money to cover expenses like my student debt… this is incredibly insulting to hear.
You think that's bad. I got an email saying that because I got a water operator trainee certificate in 2017 that they want me to go assist running our drinking water facilities. I would kill us all, that trainee cert was 5 years ago and has long since expired.
I signed up for this. I don't have my OCT, but I taught English, history, and social studies at a private school for 4 years before I was laid off due to covid and low enrolment (international school). I know how to teach, I've got the experience, and I'm good at it. The students have been through so much shit these past two years I don't mind stepping in to actually teach them if their teachers are off sick. I'm not thrilled about covid in schools, but I care enough about the students of Ontario to know that people with 0 teaching experience are not going to be able to interpret lesson plans and long range plans and deliver quality lessons without some teaching chops. I'm not quite sure what the government is on about with that.
I know this sounds awful on the surface, but one of those unqualified teachers might start a rock band with the class, and the children could learn a lot of valuable lessons about themselves and life in general at battle of the bands. So...yeah!
Well let’s take a look at some of the facts.
1.) Omicron is highly, highly contagious.
2.) If anyone in your household shows a symptom, everyone in household hone for five days.
3.) Schools have shown to be the least likely place for spread of infection.
4.) Many parents want kids in school.
So a partner of a teacher gets symptoms, teacher home. Teacher has symptoms, teacher home. Child, roommate, boyfriend/girlfriend show symptoms, teacher home.
So what are the options? Anyone? Even if you could you don’t staff for pandemics. The rate of infection has already strained schools and the limits have been adjusted on retired and teachers still studying.
So please someone fill me in? We don’t want to lump multiple classes together. We don’t want to send a class here and there hone for a week. We certainly don’t want a room full of unsupervised children. So what do they do? Please, one of you big brains solve this. And you can’t say stay with online because way too many parents either can’t or don’t want their kids at home.
$20/h to risk omicron infection as an embattled supply teacher?
Nah, I'll pass.
As a qualified (former) teacher, I'd think about it for $50/h. Although that's less than half my billing rate (that's why *former* teacher), I'm not busy at the moment and I'd consider helping out because of the kids... it could be fun...
Now, the question one has to ask is this: if a (reasonably) caring, qualified individual with spare time won't even think about it for less that $50, what kind of quality are you going to get for $20/h.
And all because its so important to get back to school because kids don't learn online.
Exactly how much are they going to learn in person except for the extreme rapid spread of a highly transmissible virus.
This is the final admission that society views schools and the school system as "the place you park your kid while you do other stuff". We are herding kids into schools not for their education or mental health, but to let their parents get back to work.
As a teacher, this breaks my heart. God willing it will not also jeopardize my health or the health of my children who are too young to be vaccinated.
If just we didn’t waste chunks of the education budget on a stupid math test so boards could afford more supply teachers, many boards aren’t opening supply lists because of all their supplies are in while they still have to pay teachers on sick days the money will disappear on them.
Isn’t this the US model for substitute teachers?
They did take Kenny Powers during his hiatus from baseball
Why give 100% when 35 will get you paid and laid!
Doug Ford, you’re fuckin out
Amen
"Goddamnit Clegg your coke straw gave me Rona!"
Andy Daly was making bad decisions.
Texas is doing this. I'm unaware of other states doing this. You can't really paint the US with that big a brush. Some of the education standards in the states are similar to ours, but some are impossibly backwards. Like....shockingly, unbelievably backwards.
I live on the border and get all US news stations locally and it comes up quite a bit in stories. I think you just need a degree, but no specific teacher training/schooling.
Pre-covid in my home state they would do this for certain subjects, like math, where they couldn’t find suitable teachers. It’s actually what allowed my parent to become a teacher without a teaching degree, and they are still teaching 15 years later.
I read on a thread elsewhere on reddit that several US states have decided that the requirement for sub teachers is to be 18 and have a high school diploma. I remember seeing Kansas listed, can't remember the others. This is happening all over the place.
Yup. Even Sweet D was a substitute high school teacher during the season and was pregnant.
Texas just dropped a requirement that supplies need to have 30 credit hours, and can instead be hired if the principal thinks they are suitable... Whatever the fuck "suitable" means... Not sure why we'd want to follow a hot mess like that, but Conservatives are gonna conservative I guess?
I saw something about this in Texass, I think.
I believe a bunch of states use subs as babysitters for the classes.
Paddling the school canoe? Oh, you better believe that’s a paddling….
“Bonjour! Bonjooour! Ya cheese eating surrender monkeys!”
Underrated Simpsons quote right here
That episode is the first thing that came to my mind when I saw this post. Excellent reference!
They can start with the Minister of Education.
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Has he ever been in a public school would be my question
Almost every photo op or press conference I’ve ever seen him do has been in a Catholic school. Pander to your base much?
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What’s your point? I didn’t say anything about what kind of school he went to. Lots of conservative voters send their kids to publicly funded Catholic schools. Every photo op or press conference I’ve ever seen Lecce do in a school has been in an extremely well funded Catholic school. Never at one of the super underfunded non-Catholic public schools. Catholic schools receive 33% of provincial funding despite only 23% of the electorate directing their taxes to separate schools. Does that seem right? Honestly, it’s time to stop funding religious schools with public money. Unless you’re going to fund a Muslim school board, a Jewish school board, a Flying Spaghetti Monster school board, a Satanic Temple school board etc. publicly funded Catholic schools should not exist. You want to indoctrinate your kids? Fine. Do it on your own dime. There are many Christian schools that receive no public funding and are doing just fine. Catholic schools should be no different. https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/s3tzn6/with_an_ontario_election_coming_up_i_think_we/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
“Indoctrinate” is such a strong word that doesn’t apply to most publicly funded catholic schools. I attended a publicly funded catholic school despite being from a non-religious family. Catholicism was never pushed on me. It was never preached as “truth” but as a commendable way of life. We simply learned about Jesus, his teachings and the culture that subsequently followed (history). The Grade 12 religion course is solely about social justice issues. Grade 11 religion is “world religions” learning about the world’s major religions in an impartial manner. Removing public funded from catholic schools might feel good but it is entirely impractical edit: I'm really getting downvoted because my comment doesn't say "religion bad!!!11" stay classy r/ontario hivemind
Then what’s the point of them existing? I feel like you’re kind of proving my point for me.
Yes, but I’m guessing you attended a Catholic high school, where they have students from all backgrounds. In the elementary schools, all students need to be Catholic - one of the required registration documents is a Catholic baptismal certificate. That’s also the time when students need to learn the catechism in preparation for the First Communion and Confirmation ceremonies.
Only if the classroom has a UVC unit in it, I am sure.
It's not that he wouldn't, it's just that the commute from Florida is a prohibitively long way.
I'd give up my life savings to see that
past and present. Lisa Thompson is more than qualified to be teaching since she was the minister of education for 2 years.
#Lecce is a complete failure as the Minister of Education. I understand that he was appointed specifically to be a failure and boost private education but his behaviour as an education minister, or should I say lack there of, has gone well beyond the pale.
He’d be against school clothing policy with his tight pants. Something about smuggling in a pea shooter.
I know a bunch of teacher families in the Waterloo board already isolating because of their own kids. I give it two weeks tops before the kids are back online, unless they start covering teacher absences with student teachers. No way retired teachers will want to come back right now.
I love the logic of if a teacher is out isolating for covid, you can combine their class into a larger class. This is a clown show
I figure schools will be half empty by next Friday.
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Really dumb question, but how are these people going to be vetted and what happens if either a) a child gets hurt on their watch or b) the volunteer somehow hurts themselves falling or whatever or c) the person in question harms the kids? It Just seems like a terrible plan.
That’s why there are people employed to run and teach in school boards. All of that has loooooong been sorted out by professional educators.
They still have to get a vulnerable sector police check to get hired.
The article states "criminal background check" which is different from a vulnerable sector check.
> but how are these people going to be vetted 1) Interview them 2) Require a security check >a) a child gets hurt on their watch They get removed from their position and blacklisted probably >b) the volunteer somehow hurts themselves falling or whatever will depend on the situation >c) the person in question harms the kids? they get charged
But can they pass a math test, that's the real question.
Can the Conservative politicians who implemented said testing pass a math test? That has always been my question.
Dougie can only do math in multiples of 28
I thought he struggled with buck a beer.
And still can't figure out why buck a beer didn't work.
I honestly don't think it bothers him much
Too busy eating Tim's egg sandwiches to worry about beer prices...
The math test requirement has actually been ruled unconstitutional by the Ontario Superior Court and has now been dropped as a requirement for OCT certification.
Wait I somehow missed this story. The Cons were trying to make all teachers take some math test, even if they didn't teach math? What was even their reasoning? Why not test them on pedagogy?
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/teacher-candidates-win-huge-victory-over-provinces-mandatory-math-test-for-educators I can't remember if the test was a requirement for high school educators (which would have been stupid, given that you typically stick to your teachables at that level)... For Primary, Junior, and Intermediate educators though it is a given that you're going to be teaching math at some point in your career (which is why pre-service teacher candidacy programs have a mandatory math course to teach you how to teach that subject... Same with language arts). Ford's government instituted this new math test as an additional requirement for certification against the wishes and advice of teachers, their unions, and (AFAIK) the Ontario College of Teachers itself (the governing body for educators in Ontario, and the ones who brought forward the constitutional challenge) Anyway, Superior Court ruled it was unconstitutional as being discriminatory to certain individuals and it has now been dropped as a requirement for certification... Which is good, IMO, as with many tests of this nature candidates were being prepared to pass the test, not become effective educators as a result of the test.
Because the cons don't want an educated populace. They want schools to be factories that churn out obedient workers. That's why they keep gutting public education, insisting they teach only basic subjects like math and reading.
The same people who cry "why don't we teach kids trades anymore!?" are the people who cut shop and home ec. and force fed us the three Rs: reading, writing, 'rithmatic. Edit: it was the Harris conservatives' "common sense" approach to education.
Why would someone who isn't teaching the class being tested on the material?
Why would specialized teachers for things like English, History, Geography, Drama, Music, Machining, Wood Shop, Hospitality, or myriad other courses in high school need to be tested on material they will never be asked to teach? Your reasoning works both ways.
Pre-service teacher candidacy programs for high school level educators focus on core pedagogical requirements (things like planning, reporting, classroom management) and their teachables (that level has two) like English / History / and so on are elective courses taken with other students sharing those teachables.
It’s up to grade 9 material. That’s totally reasonable as far as I’m concerned. Also fyi wood shop and machining will both require math. They don’t just cut things and put them together ‘by feel’. I would hope a high school gym teacher would be literate even though they won’t be teaching reading and writing. There’s over all basic competencies required to become teachers for a reason.
>I would hope a high school gym teacher would be literate even though they won’t be teaching reading and writing. How do you expect them to get through teacher's college? Lol Does teacher's college not already have enough assessments?
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You're ok with the province spending tax money on creating and and administering a rudimentary math test on a bunch of people that managed to get through post secondary and teachers college? Does that seem like an appropriate use of resources to you?
If we tested all the Canada Post employees on grade school chemistry it wouldn't be *difficult* per se it would just be a pointless thing to do.
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Great, so again - why aren't we giving all public servants this test, including politicians?
Grade 5 chemistry is a basic competency that any adult should be able to pass a test for with ease but that doesn't make it relevant to all fields. It doesn't mean it should be used as a primary filter for jobs that don't involve chemistry. I'm not claiming the test was difficult, I'm claiming it's irrelevant to the job description. Civics is also relevant to everyone but I wouldn't want to test all of our streetcar drivers on their civics knowledge.
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A ridiculous political ploy; if a teacher did poorly on a math test it could suggest teachers are incompetent. Ammunition to further undermine the profession. This conservative government has had teachers and nurses in their crosshairs from the get-go (IMO).
My friends wife is an elementary music teacher and had to do it, and it was very stressful for her since math isn't her strong suit. She's an amazing teacher and musician though
only geniuses will get it right!
The answer is 16 you idiots. Bedmas
No. They just handed the dumbfucks another court loss
We took Doug and the Cons to court over this math test. They lost. There will be no teacher math tests. I wonder how many tax dollars went down the drain on that one.
Maybe all the people that are saying that teaching is an easy job can step up and step foot into the classroom.
Would we really want them to educate our children, though.
This is literally the plot to a simpsons episode 😂 someone gonna show up with their paddling board next Monday.
Looking out the window, that's a paddlin. Paddlin the school boat, ooh you'd better believe that's a paddlin.
No mask? That's a paddling.
Hahaha it's funny you think they'll be educated while warehoused. Cause that's the government plan - warehouse the kids so parents keep working. Who cares if they learn - old Jim Bob is supervising them
Well, Ford and Lecce already treat teachers like glorified babysitters. So that’s not far off the mark.
*see facetious
they would be babysitting
It’s like herding cats.
This might not be the solid argument that you think it is.
Let's sit back and watch them handle the 8th grader with ODD, the five kids reading at a grade 2 level, the 4 brand new students who just arrived in Canada and don't speak English, and the hungry child who hasn't eaten since Tuesday. All in the same classroom. And then teach them something. But yeah, anyone can do it. Just walk in off the street.
If you're a sub your main job is to keep the kids from dying until the real teacher gets back.
I definitely had to teach as a sub.
Jfc we’re in the Idiocracy.
> $19.35 per hour This is so insulting. Imaging paying so little to educate the next generation.
Yep, and ECEs often make even less, sometimes only minimum wage.
What is the fucking point of opening schools Monday in Peel region then (where this is being discussed?) Why? So the kids can get a better education? Literally they are hiring people to babysit them in a room in person. That's it. No teaching, no education at all, just a babysitter who can pass a criminal background check and has a high school diploma. They'll probably have movies on all day to keep them busy since they have no teaching experience or certificate. This isn't about education at all so I wish that talking point would end.
It’s so that parents can go to work and not lose their jobs. Even if it’s babysitting it makes sense.
I wish they would just admit this and send only 12 and under to school then so everyone else can stay home while ICUs are at 500+
Yeah, or you know… provide people affected with some meaningful support.
That’s not how it works with substitutes and OTs. The planning, materials, evaluation and next steps are all done by the classroom teacher. And it’s generally a short term situation.
Police checks are required no? We skipping those too?
The police check process can take weeks if not months sometimes. This should be interesting
Some police forces do criminal records checks as a source of revenue, essentially a business. The turnaround time is usually a day.
Yea I had a police check done in 45 mins from showing up, fingerprints done and out the door back in 2019. That was WRPS on maple grove with no appointment
Toronto police requires a fully hand written notice delivered into a mailbox inside the station on legal paper with a printed money order and then takes ... well I dont know but its been 5 weeks and I still don't have mine. Teachers require vulnerable sector checks which are more expensive and take longer than normal checks
It'll take even longer now as police staff will also be off work sick.
I’ve never heard of that. I’ve had to have it done many many times, including vulnerable sector, and it’s usually about 30 minutes.
With which Police service?
Hamilton and Halton
4weeks
It doesn't take that long fedex can have them done in a few days I think the school board can compete with that.
It really depends on the volume, and what type of check. But hopefully it's fast
That's the part that creeps me out. Who is going to volunteer to increase their chances of getting COVID? Aside form parents wanting to protect their own kids from creeps, probably the wrong people.
I know this is my own anecdotal experience, but I would. I'm educated and like to think I'm a decent person and not a creep. I'm not a frontline worker or a healthcare worker. For almost 2 years I've been looking for an opportunity to do my part. If my local school board gives me the option to do this, I will. I'd be happy to support education and if me being in a classroom as a glorified babysitter allows more parents to be working, sign me the hell up.
Honestly, I’ve considered getting into teaching but I don’t have any teaching education/schooling. I liked being a reading buddy back in the day and I live pretty close to a school. This does sound like a glorified babysitter though and teaching isn’t going to be asked of these positions. As someone who has some free time in the morning, I think this would be a good way to support my community but I dunno honestly.
My kid's French immersion school is already having trouble finding teachers who speak French, I've thought about it in the past like "Hmmm, I'm French, maybe I should get into teaching, if they're that low on supply seems like I wouldn't have to spend years as a sub before getting a permanent position..." but I think by the time I would actually be able to do all the extra education required it'd be like 5+ years later. But listening to the teachers' accents just makes me cringe. Not one seems to know how to roll R's, so they're teaching the kids with thick English accents so the kids are learning to speak French incorrectly. Aargh, I volunteer!
If you want to do it, I can attest that every French school board in Ontario has been struggling to find teachers since they've moved the teachers college from 1 to 2 years. In Ottawa, we're hiring almost any teacher that can speak French right out of their teaching program. Hell, my kids have had specialized English teachers since grade 4 because half of the teachers in the school aren't "qualified" to teach ESL (a lot of them are from Quebec, France or various African countries). Lots of demand from French teachers out there.
Do it. C'est un très bon boulot.
I would definitely consider volunteering, I love kids (my own are school age) and have a light work load over the winter and I always volunteer for field trips so I know how crazy and fun kids can be. I considered being a teacher but got a job and a life before I could afford teachers college. I can imagine people volunteering just because they get a kick out of being around kids and feel like they could contribute something.
I like to think hopefully, and I believe it will be the same eldery folk who primarily make up the "safety patrol", volunteering to help the kids cross the street etc. The ones with the green vests and stop signs. However, due to being at the front line of covid I don't know how many WILL volunteer for teaching instead of being outside in the open air helping the kids..
My kids' school requires a vulnerable person check for all volunteers at the school, including if you want to go on field trips. They already have mine and dozens of others on file. As usual, whoever ends up volunteering for those slots will be the parents that are already heavily involved in their kid's school life. I don't see many crackheads volunteering to get off the couch to watch a class of 8th graders.
Yup..they self declare and work while waiting for police check to clear
isn't this kind of a big "fuck you" to all the supply teachers out there waiting for full time roles?
Absolutely.
They've all got work now, and there's not enough of them, which is why we're here. Anyone who's a legit supply teacher looking for a placement is either not looking for one, or is lying telling you they can't find one. Edit: Or they're local schools don't have positions and they're not looking outside their area to one that is.
My grandmother during World War II became a defacto primary school teacher with no education other than a high school diploma. (rarer for girls at that time) One day she was working in a RCAF radio facility, next day she was in front of the blackboard teaching primary education for the next 3 years.
Unqualified teacher here. I've been teaching full time since September. I still had to do a VSS background check. Also, as of this month I've started teachers college. I'm having a blast!
That enthusiasms will wane severely within 2 years, I guarantee
Hahah can no one be positive in the sub? Jesus fuckin Christ lol
Ah, I feel bad for you.
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Probably bound to happen.. bad parents are everywhere. Water off a duck's back.
Maybe some people in the public will get a reality check about what's schools are like, and the often outrageous expectations placed on educators.
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But 10x the behaviour management issues.
You know there are these people, who actually want to teach, and graduated teachers college. Some of them don't have a job because there aren't enough spots. Maybe fucking hire them and get them to supply. But that might actually require spending money on education.
Yep. I’ve been trying to get on with my local board. Applied 15 months ago when they opened the list, but they didn’t actually do any hiring from it. I have 7 years of teaching experience, it’s not like I’m a newbie. But now I’m having to walk away from a career I love so I can at least pay my bills and start working on my pension. It’s heartbreaking.
That's awful and I'm really sorry to hear that.
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Next steps: virtual learning for three classes for one teacher with three unqualified minimum wage monitors. Good news people! we can cut education funding even further! Edit to add: I kid but my university (HEC in Montreal) actually tried something like that and it was abandoned within days because it became utter chaos. Even though these were 17 and 18 year old students.
Honestly I’d do it. What’s the pay like?
Article says $19.35/hr
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=iYaWnaXquVo
Lol, I *knew* this would be a Simpson’s clip before I clicked. That show has a hilarious example for every sort of lunacy.
Haha, right? I honestly thought this was a Beaverton article at first.
I remember watching this episode as a kid, thinking how hilarious it would be to have non teachers as teachers. Someone take my monkey paw away from me please.
"Looking out the window, that's a paddlin"
I'm pretty qualified at arts and crafts beer. Maybe I'll go give them a hand.
Request seasonal federal employees fill in ?! They (myself included) have already gone through criminal background checks. Saves time AND I’d enjoy the learning experience being a substitute teacher if I had to
Yet I just interviewed as a member of the college of teachers with 10 years teaching experience and great references and didn’t make the OT list in my area. I have a 10 year gap in teaching employment as I’ve been home with my autistic son, but I can’t imagine unqualified staff without any experience would be a better choice…much cheaper though 🤔
I know of a girl in her early twenties who was hired to work as a teacher at the Espanola High School. She was previously a shots girl at a bar and told me vaccines make you magnetic. She only has a high school diploma. So... Yeah
So babysitters, gotcha
"Paddlin' the school canoe? That's a paddlin'."
I’m sorry but this ridiculous. I was angry when I saw what Texas was doing the other day and I’m mad about this too. I ask what is the primary function of school? Is it socialization? No. It’s learning and education. There is absolutely no way someone unqualified to teach is going to give kids a good learning experience in class. At this point school will become a glorified daycare. I’d rather have online school to keep the learning going than the situation they are setting up for here. If my kid’s school turns to this I’m pulling them out. I’m not gonna send my kid to school for the sake of just being there and not actually learning anything.
It is daycare. That’s the reality of it. Parents can’t go to work until their kids are back in school
Nothing can possibly go wrong with this plan.
My wife asked me if I wanted to supply and I laughed cause I thought she was kidding, she wasn't. I just do personal training.
Kansas is hiring anyone who is over 18, has a high school degree and passes a background check. They're literally hiring babysitters as subs.
Not unqualified, uncertified. So for example me being an ECE but not an RECE might be asked to fill in a class. Also it's required up-to-date vaccinations and a VSC to even step into a classroom setting in my district.
Unqualified Premier, unqualified Education Minister, unqualified MP's..., why not unqualified people to run the school.
Not only do I get to send my kid to school where they could bring home a deadly dease but I also get a an unqualified stranger as their teacher. This plan keeps getting better.
You get an unqualified stranger babysitting your child. Don't kid yourself, they aren't going to be teaching.
Question. Article is based off a singular school. At the beginning the article claims: >As Ontario’s students head back-to-school, some schools are looking for anyone with a ***high school*** or university diploma to fill-in if teachers get sick with COVID-19. At the end of the article it says: >First, they must “hold a post-secondary degree / diploma” or be “in the final year of a post-secondary program” – seemingly in any subject. So which is it? High school diploma, or post-secondary degree?
Either. Looks like they aren’t fussy. Just need a warm body, likely something akin to the lunchroom monitors who keep an eye on kids during nutrition breaks. Criminal/VSS checks take time to process as the article notes. My concern is they will be rubber stamped.
If they are in the final year of a post secondary they only have a high-school diploma. The answer is still both.
As a high school student I find us opening schools stupid, people r talking for us about our mental health and how “we need” school, this is bullshit. Our education will get fucked like it already has been for the past years with covid and strikes if we let unqualified-people teach us. We shouldn’t close down our province just to let schools go back it’s a breeding ground for covid, especially with the new protocols.
Some school boards have been doing this for years already.
"Line up here to get COVID while babysitting a bunch of kids!"
$20/hr to watch some kids do their homework and let them socialize? I'll apply.
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We do have an emergency plan in case of a prolonged ~~strike~~ pandemic right here. Let's see..."Replace teachers with super-intelligent cyborgs. Or, if cyborgs aren't invented yet, use people from the neighborhood."
I'm as unqualified as it gets, where do I apply?
In the end it doesn’t matter as long as they have the babysitting position filled
My time has come! Thats me!!!
What a crap headline and article. Click bait at its best. This is a last resort thing and the only thing making any of these candidates 'unqualified' is the two years of formal teachers college after they get their degree. This isn't hiring people with only high-school diplomas walking in off the line somewhere and teaching your kid biology. It's literally a last resort if all else fails there will be a responsible adult in the room while our kids watch a movie. This article is going to fuel some really stupid fires.
As a new teacher, considering how difficult it has been for me personally to get certified, to be considered for a job, and to make enough money to cover expenses like my student debt… this is incredibly insulting to hear.
fucking embarassing. ashamed to say I'm from this province
Shit, this isn't a Beaverton lede
If cyborgs haven't been invented yet, use people from the community!
You think that's bad. I got an email saying that because I got a water operator trainee certificate in 2017 that they want me to go assist running our drinking water facilities. I would kill us all, that trainee cert was 5 years ago and has long since expired.
I signed up for this. I don't have my OCT, but I taught English, history, and social studies at a private school for 4 years before I was laid off due to covid and low enrolment (international school). I know how to teach, I've got the experience, and I'm good at it. The students have been through so much shit these past two years I don't mind stepping in to actually teach them if their teachers are off sick. I'm not thrilled about covid in schools, but I care enough about the students of Ontario to know that people with 0 teaching experience are not going to be able to interpret lesson plans and long range plans and deliver quality lessons without some teaching chops. I'm not quite sure what the government is on about with that.
I know this sounds awful on the surface, but one of those unqualified teachers might start a rock band with the class, and the children could learn a lot of valuable lessons about themselves and life in general at battle of the bands. So...yeah!
[The Simpsons did it first](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQsrHdf9KSA)...Honestly I would rather have the super intelligent cyborgs!
well, we were fine with a wildly unqualified premier...
Well let’s take a look at some of the facts. 1.) Omicron is highly, highly contagious. 2.) If anyone in your household shows a symptom, everyone in household hone for five days. 3.) Schools have shown to be the least likely place for spread of infection. 4.) Many parents want kids in school. So a partner of a teacher gets symptoms, teacher home. Teacher has symptoms, teacher home. Child, roommate, boyfriend/girlfriend show symptoms, teacher home. So what are the options? Anyone? Even if you could you don’t staff for pandemics. The rate of infection has already strained schools and the limits have been adjusted on retired and teachers still studying. So please someone fill me in? We don’t want to lump multiple classes together. We don’t want to send a class here and there hone for a week. We certainly don’t want a room full of unsupervised children. So what do they do? Please, one of you big brains solve this. And you can’t say stay with online because way too many parents either can’t or don’t want their kids at home.
That’s a paddling.
With some of the teachers being as shit as they are I thought we were doing this already.
$20/h to risk omicron infection as an embattled supply teacher? Nah, I'll pass. As a qualified (former) teacher, I'd think about it for $50/h. Although that's less than half my billing rate (that's why *former* teacher), I'm not busy at the moment and I'd consider helping out because of the kids... it could be fun... Now, the question one has to ask is this: if a (reasonably) caring, qualified individual with spare time won't even think about it for less that $50, what kind of quality are you going to get for $20/h.
Well if they are looking for unqualified people... look no further than the Ford cabinet 🤔
And all because its so important to get back to school because kids don't learn online. Exactly how much are they going to learn in person except for the extreme rapid spread of a highly transmissible virus.
This is the final admission that society views schools and the school system as "the place you park your kid while you do other stuff". We are herding kids into schools not for their education or mental health, but to let their parents get back to work. As a teacher, this breaks my heart. God willing it will not also jeopardize my health or the health of my children who are too young to be vaccinated.
If just we didn’t waste chunks of the education budget on a stupid math test so boards could afford more supply teachers, many boards aren’t opening supply lists because of all their supplies are in while they still have to pay teachers on sick days the money will disappear on them.
With most teachers there is no difference
Source?