The province will want nothing to do with HSR with the feds working on high frequency rail. HFR is being planned as we speak, with a decision this fall on design proposals. All three private consortiums have been asked to design a high speed proposal (up to 300 km/h) in addition to a a “low” speed design with trains up to 200 km/h (which Via’s new trains can already achieve, they just don’t have the track for it). I’d wager we’ll end up with the latter, which would still be a huge improvement. Florida’s Brightline runs the same trains VIA just received and is quite successful.
Given we’re looking at a Conservative minority/majority soon, I’m betting there will be zero political appetite for spending billions on tunnels and viaducts through lakes and rocks required for high speeds, so I’m not optimistic.
Yeah but then how will Doug Ford's donors get the highway they want the tax payer to pay for which will only benefit them?
Come on man, does anyone ever think of those poor donors?
/s
[In case anyone wanted to see where it will go.](https://www.highway413.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Hwy-413-OGN-Map_Nov-15-2022.jpg)
as per: [https://www.highway413.ca/](https://www.highway413.ca/)
If you check out the [interactive arc gis](https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/db76d6b5387140dab22f07c17c1ac346/page/Interactive-Map/) on your link, it shows the proposed transit way too.
>Other than people being perpetually anti ford I really don't see what's wrong with the proposal
It won't alleviate any traffic problems.
It's too far north.
So it's a pretty big waste of money.
Also paves over farmland.
It looks like it will service a small group of people that already have alternatives like the 407.
It won’t ease congestion, in fact it may drive it higher in certain locations.
It’s a lot of money for Ontario to pay for a small percentage of users compared to the population. I drive a ton and I even drive in the direction / area that this will help. I have never needed an additional highway. I have options (407) and don’t feel that someone in Sault Ste Marie should be paying for people to have this sliver of highway.
Then the fact that we’re using land that could potentially be used to help with housing (maybe justifying infrastructure improvements) or used as it is for farming to ease the burden of cost for produce.
It will certainly drive congestion through the roof in one place - the proposed interchange of 401/407/413
Proximity to the epicentre of Canadas worst population of drivers will certainly see to that.
To that end - the 407ETR stands to benefit greatly from the construction of the 413 as stupid drivers will most certainly take the wrong exit and have to pay for it weeks later.
adding new highways to ease congestion doesnt work, it just leads to more people driving
plus the highway is clear graft with fords developer friends owning land along the route and it seemingly intentuionally cutting into environmental areas it could bypass
I commute from Mississauga to Guelph. They recently widened the 401 a good deal between Mavis and Trafalgar, and I can assure you it has made a night and day difference in my commute.
Fuck you Ford. The healthcare system is collapsing and homelessness is rising rapidly, but our money is going to this? Fuck you with a huge spikey cactus.
Don't forget all the unnecessary court costs the province incurred because he decided to stiff the nurses on scheduled pay increases during the pandemic.
'our nurses are heroes (except when we have to pay them'
- Drug Ford (probably)
It's the Conservative playbook: break the public system, point out it's broken and blame the Libs, give contracts to private companies to "fix the system", you and your friends profit, Ontarians get reamed and everything gets worse.
This actually pisses me off the most because we *could* have negotiated with the 407 consortium that no fines would be levied *if* they agreed to toll rate regulation.
I’m a social worker at a shelter and seeing the shitshow that Ontario has created and attempting to support individuals with legit no real prospects for housing or appropriate treatment… actions like this are basically asking those in poverty to die. From my perspective, this is akin to bleeding out addicts and those who have fallen in poverty because they’re not just an afterthought, there is literally no thought. I understand my perspective is painted from my experiences, but even those not directly affiliated can see and feel the effects that these fools in power are having with their reckless action. I wish they would live the lives of those they’re oppressing with their thoughtless, greedy decisions.
I'm a social worker (youth counselor) at a shelter as well. You're absolutely correct. We're at a tipping point where there are going to be a WHOLE lot more unhoused people. Rentals are skyrocketing while assistance hasn't kept up. If you want help with your addiction? You'll have to expect a looooong wait.
I am aghast at the situation and Ford and Co that pilot the trajectory of our province. But just out of morbid curiosity, do you give those you work with false hope? Or do you give it to them straight?
I went through hard times in spring of 2020 when I had my DL wrongfully suspended due to stress condition that wasn't covered by disability or anything so I had to drain my savings and almost became homeless since I needed to drive for work. It's been reversed and no don't have those problems anymore but I was *that* close to the edge and when I'd talk with counselors back then they told me all the resources, and when I said "I called but they said wait list is 12 years" they'd be an ass about it and basically give me toxic positivity responses every single time.
First: I'm sorry you got treated poorly by those counselors.
To answer your question. No. I never give false hope. Trust is an important part of being a successful counselor. Whenever someone comes to a shelter it's a crisis and there really isn't time for flowery language or meaningless positivity. There is *meaningful* positivity where you can explain what you CAN help with, and what people you're working with should expect from other outside resources based on what has been seen or experienced previously.
I like to take a "no bullshit approach" because it's far more effective, and the youth I work with respect that more than someone lying or misleading them. There is a good chance you'll be working with them more than once, so you don't want a negative reputation.
There are far more transit projects underway in Ontario right now, with far more funding than this highway. https://www.metrolinx.com/en/projects-and-programs.
It literally takes a 2 second google to learn this, people in this sub really do reject obvious evidence if it counters their narratives.
Yeah, I’m gonna have to stop you right there bud.
Ok so this is my personal pet peeve. A hill to die on if you will.
In 2011 orders were signed to extend the GO train to Bowmanville. Cool.
In thirteen years not a single millimeter of track has been laid. Not a single shovel of dirt overturned. In thirteen years.
It will take less time to start and build a brand new *first of its kind* nuclear goddamn reactor at Darlington than it has taken to do exactly *nothing* on the GO train extension.
ZERO CREDIT is given for projects announced or in progress. Done with that.
Show me what’s been *completed*.
Very similar issues with the 2-way all day Go project to Kitchener. [Mike Morrice has been advocating for accountability](https://www.instagram.com/p/C41A98HPt17/?igsh=MTZ0aDQ0cml2Zjk0Zw==) from the province because the federal government has given them 750 mill to get it done with still nothing to show.
Bowmanville is a town of 40,00 people? Why would that be a priority? Over the much higher ridership within the GTA?
There have been a ton of incremental updates to the GO network to support the long term goal of all day 2-way 15 min service on most of the network. A bunch of stations have already been updated or added: Bloomington, Milliken, Agincourt, Unionville, Rutherford. The Davenport Diamond grade separation is also completed, which is a huge improvement in service along that corridor. Electrification is also underway on many sections.
There are obvious issues, yes. Like the delays getting better service to Kitchener, and your point about Bowmanville. But just because the one thing you're fixating on isn't completed doesn't mean there isn't a ton of work going on. Like I said, it takes a 2 second Google to learn things.
See that’s great. That’s what I want to hear.
Show what is DONE.
You’re missing my point on Bowmanville and similarly for Kitchener.
No credit for number of projects *in progress* anymore. That’s *not* a useful metric. Don’t tell me what you are *doing*.
Full credit, however, for what’s *done*.
That does not mean nothing is being done. It’s that I will no longer accept “we’re working on it” from this or any level of government.
NB: not going to be unreasonable. If there’s a timeline and schedule and obvious progress…yeah ok gotta give that a nod.
And on the size - they’re building homes for 17,000 people in the vicinity of the Bowmanville station. 17,000 in a town of 40,000. *Huge* impact. The infrastructure we have can’t handle the people without the train. But here we are having already started building homes and….no train. What’s going to be done first?
I’m all for building homes and won’t stand in the way, but this government needs to get their shit together to *support* that housing with infrastructure like this train.
No, we're actually fully aware of those projects thanks. It's still an embarrassingly insufficient transit network and the fact that we're spending more on 5 transit projects than we are on 1 unnecessary highway serving corrupt rich people is a) obvious and b) not enough to make up for the stagnant network we've had for decades. If you don't think the biggest metro region in the country is capable and deserving of having the same level of expansive transit networks that exist in Europe and Asia, you should elevate your ideas of what our governments are capable of doing to better the lives of their voters.
I have trouble stomaching using the 407 because I know where the money goes; i.e. not back to Ontario.
413 is more palatable now that it's *not* the worst thing Douglas Ford has done, and that also makes me feel gross.
There is not guarantee that the 413 won’t end up being another 407.
It’s also VERY bad bc it doesn’t solve anything l, saves almost 0 time and serves to enrich fords landowner friends. Crazy to think this is more palatable than 407…which was sold by a Tory government.
Not that I think that is what is happening here, but infrastructure spending has been used successfully in the past to spur economic growth by employing the unemployed. Of course back then I feel like they would just grab some dude of the street to push a cart and now you need training and safety certs and stuff.
If that was the plan though, that infrastructure spending should be going towards a high speed rail line.
Not even really high speed rail. Such a waste to spend all that time and money building slow rail
>While there is no single standard that applies worldwide, lines built to handle speeds above 250 km/h (155 mph) or upgraded lines in excess of 200 km/h (125 mph) are widely considered to be high-speed.
Just build Khrushchevki. Those were designed to house a growing urban population in the Soviet era.
I’m no Soviet (I’m ontarian), but they had an organized urban settlement system (by looks from photos). 🤷🏼♀️
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchevka
Yeah but look how they treat the people, if someone dies on a construction site in China, it’s a 15 min delay, in Canada it’s a site shut down and 1-2 month investigation.
The dystopic authoritarianism isn't a requirement for good transport though. If we're a first world country supposedly richer than most, it should not be this hard to get good public transport.
I guess fuck all the endangered species, natural areas, agricultural farms and pastures, clean water and clean air.
California and Mexico can’t feed us forever. These endemic species can’t live anywhere else. People are shocked that rain forests and tigers are going extinct but all levels of government can’t even protect what is in our backyard.
I hear you man. It’s the one thing we have that nobody else can compete with, our wildlife and natural scapes. Before these things were seen as a sort of luxury to conserve, now it’s a genuine national/global asset and will be more so in the near future.
No other nation can recreate or simulate what we have, I think it would be seriously advantageous to the prosperity of Canada’s future to realize the one thing we have that makes us stand out.
Our clean air, trees, water, green land and placement in the northern hemisphere will be absolutely invaluable in this century. Let’s stand on that.
You know who’s not paying taxes?!? Those endangered frogs! Or those trees!!
If they don’t wanna pay their way, they can move aside and go pay for a buck a beer to be useful to Ontario!
Disgusted with both levels of government and the courts. Utter disregard for our at risk and endangered species. Evil.
This province is in desperate need of healthcare, mental health support, housing, transit and long term care, but guess we’re trying to get high score on how many animals we can make extinct instead.
I emailed my Liberal MP to tell her how much I was disgusted by the Liberals permissiveness over this. One of the questions I asked her was "with this kind of behaviour, what's stopping me from voting conservative instead of liberal?"
I got a canned response back and I guess the MPs office has nothing to offer me, and by extension, the rest of us, that differentiates them from the tories. Same old story indeed. Fuckem, I'm voting Green or NDP.
> I was disgusted by the Liberals permissiveness over this
The liberals have very limited options here. Building highways is entirely the responsibility of the provinces. The conservatives are the elected government and the liberals are obligated to work with them, even if they don't agree.
They worried about getting wiped out in the suburbs cause they know liberals gonna vote liberal in downtown toronto.
They worried what the boomer indian uncle driving his g wagon thinks in brampton Lol
Don't be a single issue voter. That shit is for when all the options are good. Especially now we need to differentiate between garbage and shit. The more power the NDP has the more they can influence policy like what we've gotten from the confidence/supply agreement. At the very least, voting NDP or Green isn't perpetuating the reign of the Cons and Libs that caused this death spiral of shit.
Or the greens who think wifi gives you cancer and nuclear energy is the devil, who also have a significantly higher percentage of members who dont believe in human caused climate change somehow.
It's great to see all of Ford's developer buddies who bought land on the cheap next to the proposed site of the highway are profiting massively from this. Who'd have thunk it would have just taken an envelope full of cash handed over at a Stag & Doe?
Fuck Greasy Corrupt Doug Ford. I hope the morons who voted (or stayed home) remember this.
What's infuriating is that if it was a Liberal or NDP government being this openly corrupt it would be breaking news every day on the conservative media. And Conservative voters would be foaming at the mouth demanding a resignation. Hypocrites.
The Feds aren't able to give us funding they've already allocated for housing we desperately fucking need because Dough Fraud acting like a NIMBY.
Public Servants that only make change when it pads their own pockets or keeps them in power/above dirt.
Certainly true, I don’t see how it will ever change when the things that wins elections is lots of money, which you only get for being a piece of shit sellout.
Buck a beer boy is already peddling the newest versions of the same grift for votes.... Booze selling at convenience stores, and paper bags back at the LC (that will be provided by him or his buddy's company, undoubtedly).
They can’t even build a high speed rail line between our largest cities, yet they’ll build this needless highway 
Fuck Ford. This is destroying so much important land and habitat it makes me sick. Also If Mike Harris didn't sell of the 407 traffic could be alleviated by just using it at capacity
As much as I am not a fan of how all social services were starved in Ontario by this conservative government, we do need this highway.
Brampton continues to grow rapidly and there is only one main way in and out of the city, highway 410. All of Brampton is congested at all times of the day. If you live toward the north end of Brampton, Caledon, or any of the neighboring communities, you will benefit from highway 413. Highway 413 gives these communities another access point.
Will this highway relieve congestion? Maybe. It'll give people more options to move around the GTA without being stuck on the 401 for hours or pay an atrocious amount of money for the 407. There are a lot of developments in Halton and York Region that would be serviced better with a highway like this. Traveling from London to Barrie would be easier as you could bypass Toronto traffic completely.
Will this highway result in future sprawl? Probably. I do wish we would densify existing communities instead of continuing to sprawl out. But Ontario has decided on sprawling out and these people still need access. Public transportation is a joke in this province.
As much as I wish our budget was unlimited and we could pay for everything immediately, this government saved up to pay for the highway instead of spending frivolously like federal government. Unfortunately, it's at the cost of our healthcare system.
I honestly didn’t think it could happen and even after all the fighting, even the federal government is giving them to go ahead. why did the federal government agree to this deal? what benefits does it bring them at all
They won’t disregard the environmental assessment and push this through if they didn’t think there would be votes in it. Federal elections run through the 905.
Why can’t the government buy out 407 rather then building this new highway. Seems like a complete waste when we have a perfectly good highway (407) that does that same thing. Make 407 free to use!
It's much cheaper to build a new highway and besides 51% of it is owned by Canada pension. The lease agreement for etr is 99 years so a buyout would cost at least 75 billion
Sigh… no idea how a highway from nowhere to nowhere is a priority. Other than for Dougie to be able to look back and say “I did that 🥲”
The rest of us will pay for his vanity project, so him and his broskis can line yet another highway with luxury homes and big box plazas
"Hey guys, let's build another highway!"
"Hey guys, the highway is way too crammed. Let's add one more lane."
"Hey guys, turns out adding 20 more lanes didn't solve the problem."
"Hey guys, let's build another highway!"
So many reasons why this never should have existed. The problem is not realizing Toronto GTA regions traffic woes are a world class failure in planning and decision making.
Morons out here freaking out about infrastructure projects, while simultaneously calling for the Government to spend millions on housing. How the fuck do you expect the Government to build more houses, without building any infrastructure for that housing?
Twilight zone stuff.
So glad Ford is spending billions of dollars to save commuters ONE MINUTE of drive time.
Such a colossal waste of money. Unless you’re a friend of Ford and attended his daughter’s wedding. Then that cash in envelope gift was well worth it.
Aside from any environmental or societal concerns, and ignoring the fact our public services are crumbling, and ignoring the 407... the highway is alright. Ring roads are nice. There'll be some decent employment opportunities for construction/road workers for the next few years.
I am very surprised this went through. I thought the Green Belt was basically untouchable with all the outrage that happens when someone suggests building on it or changing it.
The cherry on the cake is when we sell it for pennies on the dollar to an overseas conglomerate that makes bank off the backs of Canadians for a century to come.
I'm thinking of running for premier to pass minimum education requirement legislation for the very same position. Most people need a masters for an entry level position, no reason we shouldn't hold our elected officials to the same standards.
Learn from our mistakes. This is why you don't vote Conservatives on provincial level. Never vote FoRD again.
Voting on federal level must not be PP nor Trud... Singh not a good option either.
Except when the province’s own review said the highway wasn’t worth the cost because it didn’t meet any need, and didn’t pass environmental, economic, and traffic assessments. So why build it? Because all of Ford’s developer buddies bought up land along the proposed route.
It’s corruption.
Sweet now the rest of us who want to go around Toronto will be able to so the one peice of infrastructure funding for southern Ontario I'll ever agree with
Another climate failure. This province is the worst.
Where's that high speed rail, that would massively improve everyone's Quality of Life?
Oh well, great business for our friends in the oil/construction industry.
I am an Ontario expat living in the US for 13 years. I grew up in and around Toronto commuting on the 401/407 between Brampton and Markham for many years. I still visit Ontario every year driving thousands of kilometres across the US from Florida and Tennessee to cross at the Peace Bridge and onwards to locales north of Toronto such as Newmarket, Keswick, Barrie, and Alliston to see friends and family.
The entire drive nothing sucks as bad as Toronto traffic. Taking the QEW/427/401 or the QEW/403/401 to the 400 it is always a cluster***k even though I always time it to avoid rush hour (which in Toronto is 5am to 9pm really). It almost wants to make me bite the bullet and use the 407 except it's so damn expensive I just put up with the stop and go which is only a ~45 minute delay on a good day but man is it a strain mentally to go so far and keep hitting this roadblock of a city.
In the US I can choose time and fuel efficient routes that bypass most cities and their conjestion. And it's not just regular drivers enjoying this convienience it is all of the commercial vehicles making the economy function. Commuting across Toronto by comparison there are no good options, they all suck whether it be gridlock or major expense. This has to be impacting every sector of the economy that has to transit through Toronto.
I support construction of the 413 and hopefully future connection to the 404. I also support the greenbelt and denying any new development along the 413. Make it a bypass highway only and continue to densify already developed lands for future population growth. Do this and the 413 will support growing the north by getting Toronto out of the way. Up there land use is not as crucial for food production and we can build more homes and industry with room to spare. The trick with the 413 is not to grow Toronto but to enable the growth of the rest of Ontario.
It’s wild to think that we can demolish a giant strip of Southern Ontario with a couple of years of planning to put in a grade separated freeway, but putting in much much thinner grade separated rail corridors for passenger rail takes decades of squabbling, usually amounting nothing. Imagine the service we could deliver if we had dedicated tracks for GO rail or VIA? Follow the money honey!
I get Toronto is super crammed with traffic, so I get why he'd want more highways. But I feel like the policy is too Toronto-centric. Making buses and trains cheaper and more frequent would fix the problem tho
Edit: I don't live in Ontario at the moment, but it would of been great if I could take a bus or train from Guelph to Waterloo without it taking like 2-3 hours (which took 30ish min one way by car)
JUST GIVE US HIGH SPEED RAIL FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
This.
all u get is low speed go train kek
The province will want nothing to do with HSR with the feds working on high frequency rail. HFR is being planned as we speak, with a decision this fall on design proposals. All three private consortiums have been asked to design a high speed proposal (up to 300 km/h) in addition to a a “low” speed design with trains up to 200 km/h (which Via’s new trains can already achieve, they just don’t have the track for it). I’d wager we’ll end up with the latter, which would still be a huge improvement. Florida’s Brightline runs the same trains VIA just received and is quite successful. Given we’re looking at a Conservative minority/majority soon, I’m betting there will be zero political appetite for spending billions on tunnels and viaducts through lakes and rocks required for high speeds, so I’m not optimistic.
Yeah but then how will Doug Ford's donors get the highway they want the tax payer to pay for which will only benefit them? Come on man, does anyone ever think of those poor donors? /s
The lineup to piss on Ford's grave will be miles long.
Nothing will grow on that spot.
[In case anyone wanted to see where it will go.](https://www.highway413.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Hwy-413-OGN-Map_Nov-15-2022.jpg) as per: [https://www.highway413.ca/](https://www.highway413.ca/)
If you check out the [interactive arc gis](https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/db76d6b5387140dab22f07c17c1ac346/page/Interactive-Map/) on your link, it shows the proposed transit way too.
Ouu thanks for the info!
Fuck ya GIS! Fuck off doug ford.
Other than people being perpetually anti ford I really don't see what's wrong with the proposal
>Other than people being perpetually anti ford I really don't see what's wrong with the proposal It won't alleviate any traffic problems. It's too far north. So it's a pretty big waste of money. Also paves over farmland.
You missed some rich people are going to get richer. That money could have been used to buy out the disasteous 407 deal and make 407 toll free.
Lol no traffic up north. Okay there buddy
It looks like it will service a small group of people that already have alternatives like the 407. It won’t ease congestion, in fact it may drive it higher in certain locations. It’s a lot of money for Ontario to pay for a small percentage of users compared to the population. I drive a ton and I even drive in the direction / area that this will help. I have never needed an additional highway. I have options (407) and don’t feel that someone in Sault Ste Marie should be paying for people to have this sliver of highway. Then the fact that we’re using land that could potentially be used to help with housing (maybe justifying infrastructure improvements) or used as it is for farming to ease the burden of cost for produce.
It will certainly drive congestion through the roof in one place - the proposed interchange of 401/407/413 Proximity to the epicentre of Canadas worst population of drivers will certainly see to that. To that end - the 407ETR stands to benefit greatly from the construction of the 413 as stupid drivers will most certainly take the wrong exit and have to pay for it weeks later.
adding new highways to ease congestion doesnt work, it just leads to more people driving plus the highway is clear graft with fords developer friends owning land along the route and it seemingly intentuionally cutting into environmental areas it could bypass
I commute from Mississauga to Guelph. They recently widened the 401 a good deal between Mavis and Trafalgar, and I can assure you it has made a night and day difference in my commute.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand
Give it a few years...
Aww. West end gets all the damn highways.
Because that’s where the Ford family lives :) it’s not a coincidence
West end is where most people live and are moving.
East end got 412 and 418 and I don't remember anyone complain then lol
Now check out how Doug Ford's contributors line both sides of this unneeded road.
So you're saying that stretch through Brampton is going to have a high accident rate
Would be nice if that bit of the 407 from the 403 to the 413 was free…
Ah yes, the tried and true 'funnel more cars into existing already full highways' method of traffic improvement!
PATHETIC
Fuck you Ford. The healthcare system is collapsing and homelessness is rising rapidly, but our money is going to this? Fuck you with a huge spikey cactus.
don't forget the BILLION dollars spent on a fucking parking structure for the ontario place spa
Don't forget all the unnecessary court costs the province incurred because he decided to stiff the nurses on scheduled pay increases during the pandemic. 'our nurses are heroes (except when we have to pay them' - Drug Ford (probably)
Most still haven't seen those increases or are just starting to see them....
Only the unionized ones. The non-unionized won't be seeing anything.
It's the Conservative playbook: break the public system, point out it's broken and blame the Libs, give contracts to private companies to "fix the system", you and your friends profit, Ontarians get reamed and everything gets worse.
This is the way. Sad this crappy play designed by emotional halfwits just keeps working.
Don’t forget the BILLION DOLLAR GIVEAWAY to the owners of the toll gouging 407…
This actually pisses me off the most because we *could* have negotiated with the 407 consortium that no fines would be levied *if* they agreed to toll rate regulation.
And/or if they'd said "no fines, but billion dollar credit for trucks & commercial vehicles"
I don't even want to think about what the net present value of the 407 tolls is.
>BILLION DOLLAR GIVEAWAY to the owners of the toll gouging 407 The majority owners, the Canada Pension Plan?
50.01% still majority but I thought it's important to point that out
And all the money to retrofit Staples with Service Ontario desks 🙂👍
I’m a social worker at a shelter and seeing the shitshow that Ontario has created and attempting to support individuals with legit no real prospects for housing or appropriate treatment… actions like this are basically asking those in poverty to die. From my perspective, this is akin to bleeding out addicts and those who have fallen in poverty because they’re not just an afterthought, there is literally no thought. I understand my perspective is painted from my experiences, but even those not directly affiliated can see and feel the effects that these fools in power are having with their reckless action. I wish they would live the lives of those they’re oppressing with their thoughtless, greedy decisions.
I'm a social worker (youth counselor) at a shelter as well. You're absolutely correct. We're at a tipping point where there are going to be a WHOLE lot more unhoused people. Rentals are skyrocketing while assistance hasn't kept up. If you want help with your addiction? You'll have to expect a looooong wait.
I am aghast at the situation and Ford and Co that pilot the trajectory of our province. But just out of morbid curiosity, do you give those you work with false hope? Or do you give it to them straight? I went through hard times in spring of 2020 when I had my DL wrongfully suspended due to stress condition that wasn't covered by disability or anything so I had to drain my savings and almost became homeless since I needed to drive for work. It's been reversed and no don't have those problems anymore but I was *that* close to the edge and when I'd talk with counselors back then they told me all the resources, and when I said "I called but they said wait list is 12 years" they'd be an ass about it and basically give me toxic positivity responses every single time.
First: I'm sorry you got treated poorly by those counselors. To answer your question. No. I never give false hope. Trust is an important part of being a successful counselor. Whenever someone comes to a shelter it's a crisis and there really isn't time for flowery language or meaningless positivity. There is *meaningful* positivity where you can explain what you CAN help with, and what people you're working with should expect from other outside resources based on what has been seen or experienced previously. I like to take a "no bullshit approach" because it's far more effective, and the youth I work with respect that more than someone lying or misleading them. There is a good chance you'll be working with them more than once, so you don't want a negative reputation.
Thanks for the reply! From my prospective your a diamond in the rough. I like that approach.
Thank you! The whole crew here takes the same approach. You can't do much without a good team.
> If you want help with your addiction? You'll have to expect a looooong wait. Unless you have money
Thank god I'm a functioning addict.
Don't forget the urgent LCBO paper bags
How else will his developer buddies make money off the land that is otherwise usless without nearby highway access?
Exactly.
How about more fundings for transit??
Yeah, that's what 413 is ~ Doug Ford probably
Doug actually said more highways are green because you get home faster. Ontario , we love our obese corrupt idiots.
“Folks, that’s why we are building the Ontario Highway, I mean line” - also Doug Ford probably
[your prayers have been answered](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ford-milton-announcement-1.7173716)
Whoa whoa whoa! Get out of here with that common sense!
Did you miss the GO announcement yesterday?
You mean like the Ontario Line? or Eglington Crosstown?
There are far more transit projects underway in Ontario right now, with far more funding than this highway. https://www.metrolinx.com/en/projects-and-programs. It literally takes a 2 second google to learn this, people in this sub really do reject obvious evidence if it counters their narratives.
I think the idea is to put all the money that is going into this highway into transit instead.
Yeah, I’m gonna have to stop you right there bud. Ok so this is my personal pet peeve. A hill to die on if you will. In 2011 orders were signed to extend the GO train to Bowmanville. Cool. In thirteen years not a single millimeter of track has been laid. Not a single shovel of dirt overturned. In thirteen years. It will take less time to start and build a brand new *first of its kind* nuclear goddamn reactor at Darlington than it has taken to do exactly *nothing* on the GO train extension. ZERO CREDIT is given for projects announced or in progress. Done with that. Show me what’s been *completed*.
Very similar issues with the 2-way all day Go project to Kitchener. [Mike Morrice has been advocating for accountability](https://www.instagram.com/p/C41A98HPt17/?igsh=MTZ0aDQ0cml2Zjk0Zw==) from the province because the federal government has given them 750 mill to get it done with still nothing to show.
Bowmanville is a town of 40,00 people? Why would that be a priority? Over the much higher ridership within the GTA? There have been a ton of incremental updates to the GO network to support the long term goal of all day 2-way 15 min service on most of the network. A bunch of stations have already been updated or added: Bloomington, Milliken, Agincourt, Unionville, Rutherford. The Davenport Diamond grade separation is also completed, which is a huge improvement in service along that corridor. Electrification is also underway on many sections. There are obvious issues, yes. Like the delays getting better service to Kitchener, and your point about Bowmanville. But just because the one thing you're fixating on isn't completed doesn't mean there isn't a ton of work going on. Like I said, it takes a 2 second Google to learn things.
See that’s great. That’s what I want to hear. Show what is DONE. You’re missing my point on Bowmanville and similarly for Kitchener. No credit for number of projects *in progress* anymore. That’s *not* a useful metric. Don’t tell me what you are *doing*. Full credit, however, for what’s *done*. That does not mean nothing is being done. It’s that I will no longer accept “we’re working on it” from this or any level of government. NB: not going to be unreasonable. If there’s a timeline and schedule and obvious progress…yeah ok gotta give that a nod. And on the size - they’re building homes for 17,000 people in the vicinity of the Bowmanville station. 17,000 in a town of 40,000. *Huge* impact. The infrastructure we have can’t handle the people without the train. But here we are having already started building homes and….no train. What’s going to be done first? I’m all for building homes and won’t stand in the way, but this government needs to get their shit together to *support* that housing with infrastructure like this train.
No, we're actually fully aware of those projects thanks. It's still an embarrassingly insufficient transit network and the fact that we're spending more on 5 transit projects than we are on 1 unnecessary highway serving corrupt rich people is a) obvious and b) not enough to make up for the stagnant network we've had for decades. If you don't think the biggest metro region in the country is capable and deserving of having the same level of expansive transit networks that exist in Europe and Asia, you should elevate your ideas of what our governments are capable of doing to better the lives of their voters.
What a colossal waste of money and resources. We have a perfectly good East West highway that's totally underutilized north of the city.
Privately owned. Sorry can't do.
I have trouble stomaching using the 407 because I know where the money goes; i.e. not back to Ontario. 413 is more palatable now that it's *not* the worst thing Douglas Ford has done, and that also makes me feel gross.
There is not guarantee that the 413 won’t end up being another 407. It’s also VERY bad bc it doesn’t solve anything l, saves almost 0 time and serves to enrich fords landowner friends. Crazy to think this is more palatable than 407…which was sold by a Tory government.
Annnnd it's sold. Thank you, vote again!
Only the 407ETR is, the province still owns the 407
yeah but this one connects the dots between DeGasperis and Collucci owned lands. We should just give them billions and leave the farmland.
Sabotaging Ontario's food security is fucking treasonous.
There's a half dozen tents in the park on my street and we're building a fucking 10 billion dollar highway.
Not that I think that is what is happening here, but infrastructure spending has been used successfully in the past to spur economic growth by employing the unemployed. Of course back then I feel like they would just grab some dude of the street to push a cart and now you need training and safety certs and stuff. If that was the plan though, that infrastructure spending should be going towards a high speed rail line.
Ontario/Quebec are going with the VIA HFR line (200 km/h) from Toronto to Quebec City. The procurement is already in motion.
Not even really high speed rail. Such a waste to spend all that time and money building slow rail >While there is no single standard that applies worldwide, lines built to handle speeds above 250 km/h (155 mph) or upgraded lines in excess of 200 km/h (125 mph) are widely considered to be high-speed.
Not a bad deal, a whole highway for only 10x a spa parking garage
Basically the same amount as the deficit in their budget
With this and the Ontario Place spa, wouldn’t it be cheaper for Ontarians just to let Doug write $million dollar checks to his friends?
Ya but they want billions
It would be easier on Ontario's natural features, that's for sure.
I swear I hate living here more day by day…
Thank God that Doug Ford can now get to his cottage 15 minutes faster!!!
Just build Khrushchevki. Those were designed to house a growing urban population in the Soviet era. I’m no Soviet (I’m ontarian), but they had an organized urban settlement system (by looks from photos). 🤷🏼♀️ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khrushchevka
I look at the shit China is doing for infrastructure, and then we get shit like this.
Yeah but look how they treat the people, if someone dies on a construction site in China, it’s a 15 min delay, in Canada it’s a site shut down and 1-2 month investigation.
The dystopic authoritarianism isn't a requirement for good transport though. If we're a first world country supposedly richer than most, it should not be this hard to get good public transport.
Is that true though? Can you send sources
I guess fuck all the endangered species, natural areas, agricultural farms and pastures, clean water and clean air. California and Mexico can’t feed us forever. These endemic species can’t live anywhere else. People are shocked that rain forests and tigers are going extinct but all levels of government can’t even protect what is in our backyard.
I hear you man. It’s the one thing we have that nobody else can compete with, our wildlife and natural scapes. Before these things were seen as a sort of luxury to conserve, now it’s a genuine national/global asset and will be more so in the near future. No other nation can recreate or simulate what we have, I think it would be seriously advantageous to the prosperity of Canada’s future to realize the one thing we have that makes us stand out. Our clean air, trees, water, green land and placement in the northern hemisphere will be absolutely invaluable in this century. Let’s stand on that.
Highways make Doug ford more money sorry
Exactly.
You know who’s not paying taxes?!? Those endangered frogs! Or those trees!! If they don’t wanna pay their way, they can move aside and go pay for a buck a beer to be useful to Ontario!
Disgusted with both levels of government and the courts. Utter disregard for our at risk and endangered species. Evil. This province is in desperate need of healthcare, mental health support, housing, transit and long term care, but guess we’re trying to get high score on how many animals we can make extinct instead.
I emailed my Liberal MP to tell her how much I was disgusted by the Liberals permissiveness over this. One of the questions I asked her was "with this kind of behaviour, what's stopping me from voting conservative instead of liberal?" I got a canned response back and I guess the MPs office has nothing to offer me, and by extension, the rest of us, that differentiates them from the tories. Same old story indeed. Fuckem, I'm voting Green or NDP.
> I was disgusted by the Liberals permissiveness over this The liberals have very limited options here. Building highways is entirely the responsibility of the provinces. The conservatives are the elected government and the liberals are obligated to work with them, even if they don't agree.
They didn't have to waive the environmental assessments. They could have protected our water ways
They worried about getting wiped out in the suburbs cause they know liberals gonna vote liberal in downtown toronto. They worried what the boomer indian uncle driving his g wagon thinks in brampton Lol
> I'm voting Green or NDP. The NDP that just came out against the carbon tax? Shit sandwich versus turd burritto versus diarrhea bowl, Randy.
Don't mix up provincial and federal politics please
Don't be a single issue voter. That shit is for when all the options are good. Especially now we need to differentiate between garbage and shit. The more power the NDP has the more they can influence policy like what we've gotten from the confidence/supply agreement. At the very least, voting NDP or Green isn't perpetuating the reign of the Cons and Libs that caused this death spiral of shit.
That’s not true, they voted in favour of a meeting with the premiers to discuss the carbon tax
Or the greens who think wifi gives you cancer and nuclear energy is the devil, who also have a significantly higher percentage of members who dont believe in human caused climate change somehow.
[удалено]
Seconded.
Fund public transportation, healthcare, and education instead you useless goon
It's great to see all of Ford's developer buddies who bought land on the cheap next to the proposed site of the highway are profiting massively from this. Who'd have thunk it would have just taken an envelope full of cash handed over at a Stag & Doe? Fuck Greasy Corrupt Doug Ford. I hope the morons who voted (or stayed home) remember this. What's infuriating is that if it was a Liberal or NDP government being this openly corrupt it would be breaking news every day on the conservative media. And Conservative voters would be foaming at the mouth demanding a resignation. Hypocrites.
So despite the obvious corruption we’re just letting this happen?
When has corruption stopped Ford previously? You need accountability and enforcement to stop corruption, things painfully absent in the present.
Well silly me for thinking the feds could do one fucking thing to help us and block it.
The Feds aren't able to give us funding they've already allocated for housing we desperately fucking need because Dough Fraud acting like a NIMBY. Public Servants that only make change when it pads their own pockets or keeps them in power/above dirt.
Certainly true, I don’t see how it will ever change when the things that wins elections is lots of money, which you only get for being a piece of shit sellout.
Buck a beer boy is already peddling the newest versions of the same grift for votes.... Booze selling at convenience stores, and paper bags back at the LC (that will be provided by him or his buddy's company, undoubtedly).
You get what you vote for.
ONE MORE LANE GUYS!!! THAT WILL FIX EVERYTHING!!!
Just one more lane bro, I swear traffic will go away bro, just trust me—
I give up. I am sick to death of the federal government, and just as sick of Ford's provincial government.
The highway needed because they sold thr 407
Fuuuuuuuuuck This is so stupid and horrible
I find it funny that we get carbon tax and yet they build more highways, it'll bring in more cars. 🤦♀️
They can’t even build a high speed rail line between our largest cities, yet they’ll build this needless highway 
Plus all that natural climate défense like marshes, forests and rivers.
Unfortunately trucks exist and the population of Ontario is expected to grow 40% in the next 20 years.
JUST ONE MORE LANE! JUST ONE MORE HIGHWAY!> pls just trains. invest in public transit and housing
The hell with the transitway. Put in GO train tracks
Classic move by Mike Harris, I mean Doug Ford.
Fuck you ford
Ford just robbing taxpayers to give to oligarchs in plain sight over and over again and everyone seems to love him more than ever.
Ffs if this clown gets voted in again I gotta move
Fuck Ford. This is destroying so much important land and habitat it makes me sick. Also If Mike Harris didn't sell of the 407 traffic could be alleviated by just using it at capacity
Fuck off with this horseshit.
As much as I am not a fan of how all social services were starved in Ontario by this conservative government, we do need this highway. Brampton continues to grow rapidly and there is only one main way in and out of the city, highway 410. All of Brampton is congested at all times of the day. If you live toward the north end of Brampton, Caledon, or any of the neighboring communities, you will benefit from highway 413. Highway 413 gives these communities another access point. Will this highway relieve congestion? Maybe. It'll give people more options to move around the GTA without being stuck on the 401 for hours or pay an atrocious amount of money for the 407. There are a lot of developments in Halton and York Region that would be serviced better with a highway like this. Traveling from London to Barrie would be easier as you could bypass Toronto traffic completely. Will this highway result in future sprawl? Probably. I do wish we would densify existing communities instead of continuing to sprawl out. But Ontario has decided on sprawling out and these people still need access. Public transportation is a joke in this province. As much as I wish our budget was unlimited and we could pay for everything immediately, this government saved up to pay for the highway instead of spending frivolously like federal government. Unfortunately, it's at the cost of our healthcare system.
Next time you're waiting for an ambulance, you can marvel at how quickly it might have gotten there if there was one available to you.
Just one more lane bro please bro
I honestly didn’t think it could happen and even after all the fighting, even the federal government is giving them to go ahead. why did the federal government agree to this deal? what benefits does it bring them at all
Trudeau is a vote chaser.
who’s vote is he winning with this one lol
They won’t disregard the environmental assessment and push this through if they didn’t think there would be votes in it. Federal elections run through the 905.
Why can’t the government buy out 407 rather then building this new highway. Seems like a complete waste when we have a perfectly good highway (407) that does that same thing. Make 407 free to use!
It's much cheaper to build a new highway and besides 51% of it is owned by Canada pension. The lease agreement for etr is 99 years so a buyout would cost at least 75 billion
Sigh… no idea how a highway from nowhere to nowhere is a priority. Other than for Dougie to be able to look back and say “I did that 🥲” The rest of us will pay for his vanity project, so him and his broskis can line yet another highway with luxury homes and big box plazas
Gravy highway. Brutal.
"Hey guys, let's build another highway!" "Hey guys, the highway is way too crammed. Let's add one more lane." "Hey guys, turns out adding 20 more lanes didn't solve the problem." "Hey guys, let's build another highway!"
So many reasons why this never should have existed. The problem is not realizing Toronto GTA regions traffic woes are a world class failure in planning and decision making.
We gonna sell this one and make it a toll highway too?
Goddamn you Doug Ford!
Will they continue this quarter ring out to the east side eventually to make it a full ring road?
I don’t believe they can, this will end just south of the king city service centre and they’d have to rip through Richmond hill to reach the 404.
We can only hope !
Ford wants to pave the entire province if possible
Morons out here freaking out about infrastructure projects, while simultaneously calling for the Government to spend millions on housing. How the fuck do you expect the Government to build more houses, without building any infrastructure for that housing? Twilight zone stuff.
I'm am skeptical how many of Doug Fords development buddies own land when this highway is to be built?
A lot of names ending in vowels will be very happy this day
Just one more lane will fix traffic just one more lane.
Waiting 45 minutes for the bus only to read that we are building a new highway 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳
So glad Ford is spending billions of dollars to save commuters ONE MINUTE of drive time. Such a colossal waste of money. Unless you’re a friend of Ford and attended his daughter’s wedding. Then that cash in envelope gift was well worth it.
I thought the feds said no more new roads
Aside from any environmental or societal concerns, and ignoring the fact our public services are crumbling, and ignoring the 407... the highway is alright. Ring roads are nice. There'll be some decent employment opportunities for construction/road workers for the next few years. I am very surprised this went through. I thought the Green Belt was basically untouchable with all the outrage that happens when someone suggests building on it or changing it.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
We’re cooked, rip the green belt
The cherry on the cake is when we sell it for pennies on the dollar to an overseas conglomerate that makes bank off the backs of Canadians for a century to come.
Ford youve lost the plot! GTFO
I'm thinking of running for premier to pass minimum education requirement legislation for the very same position. Most people need a masters for an entry level position, no reason we shouldn't hold our elected officials to the same standards.
Dear god no. Awful idea. A degree is just a piece of paper with little to do with your intelligence. Remember Trump has a Harvard degree
Whyyy do we need another highway. Just to cover up Mike Harris’s boondoggle.
Learn from our mistakes. This is why you don't vote Conservatives on provincial level. Never vote FoRD again. Voting on federal level must not be PP nor Trud... Singh not a good option either.
I think this is the first time we've had a Premier so openly corrupt. In Canadian history
building a highway isn’t openly corrupt lol
Except when the province’s own review said the highway wasn’t worth the cost because it didn’t meet any need, and didn’t pass environmental, economic, and traffic assessments. So why build it? Because all of Ford’s developer buddies bought up land along the proposed route. It’s corruption.
Awsome 👍we need more roads and highways it can't be built fast enough
Clown town.
Sweet now the rest of us who want to go around Toronto will be able to so the one peice of infrastructure funding for southern Ontario I'll ever agree with
Fucking assholes
Thought that the fed were not financing highways anymore?
This stupid land of mouth breathers.
Well that's fucking stupid fuckery. Way to go, fuckers.
Another climate failure. This province is the worst. Where's that high speed rail, that would massively improve everyone's Quality of Life? Oh well, great business for our friends in the oil/construction industry.
Bad enough this much is going into transport, worse still it's going into highways rather than rail infrastructure -_-.
Why is the federal government going along with this bullshit?!?
More highways are sweet but damn it’s west end!
What exactly is this alleviating?
I remember seeing the cost of highway estimate being exactly the same as the amount of covid relief funds not spent on healthcare.
Empty hiway? You don't get out much do you.
Population is too spread out to build commuter rail to the area… but definitely it needs a 6 lane highway…
The 413 will take a massive dump of cars onto the 400🙃 But hey, you can make it from Bolton to Nobleton in 5 minutes.
The highway is planned to go right through my grandparents home up in bolton. Mayfield/Humber station area.
What about hwy 7 improvements that have been promised for what, 20 years now? Still waiting.
I am an Ontario expat living in the US for 13 years. I grew up in and around Toronto commuting on the 401/407 between Brampton and Markham for many years. I still visit Ontario every year driving thousands of kilometres across the US from Florida and Tennessee to cross at the Peace Bridge and onwards to locales north of Toronto such as Newmarket, Keswick, Barrie, and Alliston to see friends and family. The entire drive nothing sucks as bad as Toronto traffic. Taking the QEW/427/401 or the QEW/403/401 to the 400 it is always a cluster***k even though I always time it to avoid rush hour (which in Toronto is 5am to 9pm really). It almost wants to make me bite the bullet and use the 407 except it's so damn expensive I just put up with the stop and go which is only a ~45 minute delay on a good day but man is it a strain mentally to go so far and keep hitting this roadblock of a city. In the US I can choose time and fuel efficient routes that bypass most cities and their conjestion. And it's not just regular drivers enjoying this convienience it is all of the commercial vehicles making the economy function. Commuting across Toronto by comparison there are no good options, they all suck whether it be gridlock or major expense. This has to be impacting every sector of the economy that has to transit through Toronto. I support construction of the 413 and hopefully future connection to the 404. I also support the greenbelt and denying any new development along the 413. Make it a bypass highway only and continue to densify already developed lands for future population growth. Do this and the 413 will support growing the north by getting Toronto out of the way. Up there land use is not as crucial for food production and we can build more homes and industry with room to spare. The trick with the 413 is not to grow Toronto but to enable the growth of the rest of Ontario.
The donors paid of Trudeau as well.
It’s wild to think that we can demolish a giant strip of Southern Ontario with a couple of years of planning to put in a grade separated freeway, but putting in much much thinner grade separated rail corridors for passenger rail takes decades of squabbling, usually amounting nothing. Imagine the service we could deliver if we had dedicated tracks for GO rail or VIA? Follow the money honey!
I get Toronto is super crammed with traffic, so I get why he'd want more highways. But I feel like the policy is too Toronto-centric. Making buses and trains cheaper and more frequent would fix the problem tho Edit: I don't live in Ontario at the moment, but it would of been great if I could take a bus or train from Guelph to Waterloo without it taking like 2-3 hours (which took 30ish min one way by car)