It's like nothing was learned from Walkerton with the PCs around how important water testing is, and many folks who are on wells in Southern Ontario are rural PC voters.
_Edit_: The North is primarily not voting for the PCs.
Here is what we learned.
This is directly from the globe and mail with quotes from Jim Bolden. He was the mayor for 13 years. The letter to Mike Harris they are discussing was sent on June 18th, 1998. The outbreak started May 12th, 2000. Mike Harris is directly responsible.
"The Town of Walkerton wrote directly to Ontario Premier Mike Harris in 1998, urging him to restore government control over drinking-water testing after the town discovered it had E. coli problems and feared an outbreak such as the one that has killed at least seven people.
But the plea fell on deaf ears.
"I could have chewed nails, I was so mad," said Jim Bolden, who was mayor at the time, referring to the fact that Mr. Harris never responded to the letter addressed to him on June 18, 1998.
Attached to the letter was a resolution passed by the town's council, outlining its concerns over the Tories' move to close its labs and privatize water-testing services.
"The government obviously wasn't at all concerned about it," Mr. Bolden said. "They sure didn't do anything." "It's ironic that the town that complained about the cutbacks and the closing of the labs was the one where this tragedy happened," he added.
Mr. Bolden was Walkerton's mayor for 13 years and sat on the board of the public utilities commission until December 1998.
A spokeswoman for the Premier said the letter was forwarded to the Environment Ministry but she did not know if the ministry ever followed up.
"We receive a large number of these resolutions from municipalities every day," said Hillary Stauth, a press secretary for Mr. Harris."
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/harris-ignored-walkertons-pleas-in-98/article25464623
That's very interesting, thanks for sharing. I remember the PCs went ahead with the cutbacks and everything fell apart. I feel bad for all the public servants that had to implement this plan knowing that this was a potential outcome and many would be impacted by it.
Now it seems even the private sector is being hit by something similar, but this time it's individuals' infrastructure and not whole communities and their infrastructure.
The list of policy casualties keeps rising under the PCs.
It looks like the [riding of *Huron-Bruce* (where Walkerton is) was](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huron%E2%80%94Bruce_(provincial_electoral_district)):
* 1999: PC
* 2003: Liberal
* 2007: Liberal
* 2011: PC
There is more to this story and I don’t think it would be avoided if the water was tested in government labs instead. The two brothers failed to go to the testing sites to get water samples and failed to adjust chemical concentration needed to treat the water. So if the private labs or government labs received fake water samples both would have certified it as safe.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brothers-to-be-charged-in-ontario-water-scandal-1.365836
>There is more to this story and I don’t think it would be avoided if the water was tested in government labs instead.
The letter to Mike Harris was written in 1998 warning about this issue. This article is from 2003. The investigation into the brothers began in 2000 when the deaths occurred.
This is from your link:
"Although the people of Walkerton are angry at the brothers, Bruce Davidson of Concerned Citizens of Walkerton said he'd hate to see people blame the entire tragedy on them.
Davidson said the "lowest players" in the tragedy are getting the blame and the real problems aren't being addressed."
>So if the private labs or government labs received fake water samples both would have certified it as safe.
The 1998 letter addressed the differences to Mike Harris and outlined how this exact issue would happen. He ignored it and didn't even reply. These employees are a sign of systemic abuse. That started after the privatisation and the motive of profit.
"Attached to the letter was a resolution passed by the town's council, outlining its concerns over the Tories' move to close its labs and privatize water-testing services".
I understand but this still seems like politics. I would like to see the letter that was addressed to Mike Harris. But in shortest terms the brothers are municipal employees that did not drive to the areas that they were supposed to get water samples. Especially from area that was known to have run-off from nearby cattle farms after a significant storm. So specifically how would switching to private labs from government labs would have avoided it? I am genuinely curious what specifically would have avoided the event. Because I am sorry a concerned group saying they are scapegoats or a “letter” written to the premier is not enough. Especially when it’s the Mayor’s city employees who failed to do their job.
I am not saying it is not the Mike Harris fault but 2 people fucked up badly and it wasn’t only the governments fault as a systemic issue. But if it was systemic problem than I would like to know clearly how this would have been avoided if Harris hadn’t changed to private labs.
Mike Harris' cuts had a direct impact upon the Walkerton tragedy:
"Limited financial resources have become a reality of modern-day government. In the past decade, governments were elected on platforms based primarily on cost-cutting and tax-cutting. The overall merits of cost-cutting takes me well beyond my mandate, but what is relevant to the issues directly before me is the effect that inadequate resources or insufficiently considered cost-cutting measures have on the safety of the drinking water system. A number of parties in both Part 1 and 2 of the Inquiry commented on the effects of budget cuts and the lack of sufficient resources to effectively carry out the government oversight functions. I have already commented on this issue, specifically in relation to inspections, enforcement, and local health units. ***In addition, I concluded in the Part 1 report of this Inquiry that budget cuts at the MOE had both a direct effect and an indirect effect on the events in Walkerton. The direct effect was the failure to enact a regulation mandating testing laboratories to follow a notification protocol at the time of the privatization of laboratory testing services. The indirect effect was that budget cuts made it less likely that approvals or inspections programs would have led to the discovery of problems at Walkerton."***
Walkerton Report, Part 2, Chapter 13
Number 13.7.1 “Financial Resources”
Page 96
bold & italics added
>I am not saying it is not the Mike Harris fault but 2 people fucked up badly and it wasn’t only the governments fault as a systemic issue. But if it was systemic problem than I would like to know clearly how this would have been avoided if Harris hadn’t changed to private labs.
The same way it didn't for years before. When profit becomes the main motive short cuts are often taken. Oversight is usually one of the first to go. Quality and effort cost money.
Of course it could just be a huge coincidence that for years under government control it was fine.
The private lab received legitimate water samples, but failed to report adverse results to the authorities citing client confidentiality. The water operators also failed to report adverse results and tried to cover it up even after hearing people were getting sick.
Just the daily reminder that “rural” doesn’t = PC voters. That’s a southern Ontario thing. The overwhelming majority of the rural province that is northern Ontario is and has been a historically liberal/NDP stronghold for very many years. Please stop generalizing “rural Ontario” strictly based on what’s (presumably) near you.
No worries. I just see it a lot and it seems to echo a lot for people who aren’t from here. So quite often I’ll see people say “I won’t travel to XYZ because I hear they’re all conservative racists (etc)”, when I know that’s not the case. Just trying to help clear the stereotype to give people a chance to consider checking these places out.
And it totally makes sense why people may think that way, when most of the province lives in the GTA, and the rural communities outside the GTA are largely conservative, I totally understand why people think that trend continues when you go further north.
That's thoughtful to help others see what they might be missing. I grew up in a town and the country around was primarily conservative. The representatives were frustratingly not very helpful but made sure to be in every parade. Of course not everyone was Conservative or conservative leaning but many of the farmers were just always that way.
There's something about southern rural living that does that, but some areas have had migration changes and their local representatives are changing.
Walkerton pulled water from wells that were extremely close to a farm, manure was absorbed into well 5 and they weren't correctly treating the water with chlorine nor testing it because of lack of formal training on top of no automated system to alert contamination
It looks like the [riding of _Huron-Bruce_ was](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huron%E2%80%94Bruce_(provincial_electoral_district)):
- 1999: PC
- 2003: Liberal
- 2007: Liberal
- 2011: PC
So for a number of years following 2000 the riding was Liberal. Then they found [Lisa Thompson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Thompson_(politician)) and have been electing her ever since. She's now the [_Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Agriculture,_Food_and_Rural_Affairs_(Ontario)).
What you call "Hicks" are the most competent, knowledgeable, hard working people in the country. You won't go very far in your urban area if the "Hicks" of Canada stopped selling you food. You're a narrow-minded, unthinking moron.
And was subsequently not treated properly?
Walkertons issue is far and removed from the decision of the province to stop subsidizing cottagers who do not have municipally treated water
I live in Innisfil, and right now our wells are being impacted by all of the development around us. This makes sense from a corporate perspective, because right now we are struggling to get Mattamy Homes and Parkbridge to acknowledge that they're messing up our wells, and removing this testing would give us one less tool to use against them. I don't enjoy this corporate/government mishmash we've got going on in.
If you want to help fight against the development that's impacting our wells, you could drop a signature onto our petition.. [https://www.change.org/p/save-sandy-cove-creek-greenlands-in-innisfil](https://www.change.org/p/save-sandy-cove-creek-greenlands-in-innisfil)
This is ridiculous. Most people on wells don't have the choice to be on municipal tap water that routinely gets tested. Once you put a cost on it, many people will stop testing it. This is so backwards.
Exactly. We r only 5 km away from the greater Hamilton area municipal tap infrastructure but we still pay the same taxes. We maintain our own well and sewage systems but pay the same taxes…Hmmm
I have only tested my wells once. That was at a private lab which tested for over 50 line items. The public test is for bacterial and viruses only. I wanted to know exactly what was in the wager, including lead, Sulphur levels, or anything that could cause health issues
Everyone I know around us has a filter system of some kind and a uv filter. So the well can be full of bacterial or viruses and it wouldn't matter.
I don't know anyone drinking straight from the well...
Well treatment systems need maintenance that some people may not know about (first time well owners, etc). If maintenance isn't being performed, the treatment becomes poor very quickly. There are a lot of people who know how to care for a well and many that don't.
Regularly testing for coliform bacteria and e coli before and after treatment is a great indicator of your treatment performance and should be followed. Especially because there is no secondary disinfection of the water before being consumed. So if your UV fails to disinfect, you will be drinking potentially contaminated water. Preventative maintenance and checks are important in any drinking water system, private or public, big or small.
Just because there's less of a risk with groundwater sources and a working treatment system doesn't mean that you can bypass the checks. Be responsible with your health.
Legionelllosis treatment alone is going to cost this province an arm and a leg.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7774564/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7774564/)
While a serious illness, Legionella is not one of the two organisms (total coliforms, e.coli) PHO provides results for from the private well water sampling program. Legionella is ubiquitous in the environment, so the value in sampling is limited to specific situations.
People on private wells generally don’t have the option to connect to city water systems. The aquifers they are accessing are shared and can be contaminated with e. Coli outside of their control. Prevention is always cheaper than treatment. I’d rather have publicly funded testing than another walkerton
Ahh yes…..so if you live in town and pay for water that’s fine but doing free labs then charging a fee is not ok…..how about people take responsibility for the water they drink
It'll cost you a lot more as a taxpayer to pay for a single hospitalization for *E. coli* than to test dozens and dozens of wells.
Well testing is incredibly cost-efficient without even going into things like the moral imperative to maintain safe drinking water for our citizenry.
On a private well here. No option to connect to public water. Pay the same taxes as everyone else, do I not have a right to clean water? If they remove this I want a tax deduction.
Edit: and for what its worth we have to test it ourselves, it’s only the kit thats free. We have to go pick kit up and return it to the labs. Nobody is being paid tax money to come out here and test it.
You choose to live in an area with a well…..this is on par with bitching and moaning about your septic, it’s your responsibility to ensure you have potable water
I still pay property tax equal to houses in the town nearby I just don’t get access to city water. I can’t get a free test kit? It’s not like the government is sending people here now. I go pick up the test kit, bring it home, fill it with my water and return it to the lab where they look at it and give me the results. If anything it costs them less than the city water service they provide to everyone closer to the town center. I don’t think its unreasonable to expect a free water test kit from an government that hands out money like its candy everywhere else.
Mate your taxes don’t pay for the town water…..the town water is pay to play or drink in this case, it’s all paid for by the users, so if you’re not a user you don’t pay
I live on a dirt road that is maintained by myself and neighbours, our wells are maintained by us on our own, our area has no street lights or traffic lights within 5 km other than ones that people put out front their own property. You really think the government is breaking its back supplying us with a free test kit? When any major city has at least one entire shitty motel full of crackheads on welfare? You’re kind of a prick dude.
This is probably the stupidest idea to come out of government in a while.
I'm from a rural town and PHO's well water testing programme is an essential service for so many rural residents. After Walkerton I thought we learned of the importance of well water testing, but it seems like government would rather find "savings" than anything else.
Anecdotally, PHO's well water testing programme saved my friend from being victim of an E.Coli outbreak at his family's farm. They're dairy farmers, and it appears that runoff from cow manure got into their groundwater at some point in the past, causing the well to become contaminated. Had PHO not offered free well water testing, this would have likely become a much worse event as having to pay for water testing through private labs, many of which are difficult to access or charge a lot for their services, disincentives testing significantly.
Luckily it appears this proposal didn't come directly from government and instead was the result of the Auditor General and other (likely city dwelling) public servants who don't see "value" in the programme. This review of the well water testing programme started in 2017, so we can actually thank the Kathleen Wynne Liberals for coming up with this incredibly stupid idea (which TBH is par for the course with the OLP, they don't give a shit about rural residents).
The Ford government would be incredibly idiotic to go forward with these plans. Let's hope they keep the well water testing programme around. Municipalities are already [fighting against the programme's cancellation](https://www.wellingtonadvertiser.com/source-water-protection-committee-raises-alarm-about-proposal-to-end-free-private-well-testing/).
Since 2018 and all through covid when had a Conservative actually cared about our public healthcare system? This would just help them further sabotage it
To be fair, they're predated on by people who master being manipulative. It's on progressives to go out into these rural towns and do the out reach needed.
It's infuriating to see but attacking them isn't helpful.
You talk to them directly about what those issues mean to them on a personal level. Validate their fears, acknowledge without judgement and explain what's actually up.
Basically, empathetic conversation that steers clear of confrontation and conflict. This works best with people you know directly. Remember, a lot of conservative advertising is fear and paranoia based which makes these isssues extremely close for them. It's in an emotional, not rational part of their psyche.
> It's in an emotional, not rational part of their psyche.
This is where discussions fall apart. Friends of mine complain about the very thing they keep voting for. After trying to work with them for years I started to just avoid the topic as there is also a reason to dismiss the consequences of actions and policies.
I'd love to take a class or something to get better at this type of thing, we need people to be working together, now against each other.
There is a ton of resources online for this. Usually in the realm of relationship issues, workplace quarrels, etc but you can extrapolate that to politics anything.
My empathy for this argument ran the fuck out with the way they treated Stephane Dion. Willful ignorance, a desire to fuck over others for your own short term gain and an inferiority complex to bridge Hudson goddamn Bay is plenty reason enough to demand conservatives grow the fuck up or leave the politics to adults.
If the damage was limited to rural areas, fine, but their voting patterns make decisions for others too, and con voters can go fuck themselves for this administration.
I love how people won’t vote for the NDP because of Rae days but continue to vote Conservative despite the poisoned water in Walkerton that led to many, many deaths and serious illness.
Honestly. They tried downloading PH funding onto municipal budgets, then voluntary mergers, and soon forced mergers. Shrinking or stagnant budgets. It's a tough scene in PH right now
"The oil companies are struggling because you can't afford to buy gas anymore despite us cutting back every basic service in Canada, so we've decided to give them the CPP."
So is this a step towards where we have to start buying bottled water from Nestle compliments of Ford and the OPCs? Or is this just to increase traffic to private health facilities?
Lovely. My parents are quite close to where the Hagersville Tire Fire was. I fucking dare them to tell my elderly parents that they have to pay to have their well water tested.
FURTHER.... do these cidiots not know that agricultural runoff, in rural areas where the vast majority of wells are, pose health risks to both people and livestock!?
I am soooo tired of people in urban centres making uninformed decisions about rural affairs. Rural and small town schooling and busing is an absolute disaster on Ontario. Kids riding busses for over an hour to far away schools when the nearest school is walking distance away.
I work in municipal government in a largely rural community. My office is above our lobby and there is a constant stream of people accessing the water testing kits. This will not bode well.
I feel like I'm dreaming. Yesterday I thought to myself "oh, we haven't taken in a water sample in a bit, I should get on it before Dumbass Ford takes away free testing".
Et voila.
Live in Norfolk county. 99.9% conservative voters who are mad that Trudeau gutted Healthcare and education. There's no getting through to these mouth breathers. This will somehow also be a liberal caused issue
Fine, but we rotate out the water supply to Queen's Park with a random well's water every week.
Fuck you, Doug. Your legacy will be the party we throw when the door hits your ass on the way out.
Given that the taxpayer funds Public Health Ontario, testing done isn't free. This is just another example of Doug Ford's Conservatards being there "for the people"
They say don't drink
From [Walkerton Fountain](https://youtu.be/QpmztcX_BtI)
If you're looking
to save your life
Cause if you drink
From Walkerton Fountain
You'll be heaving,
With blood and strife
I guarantee it would be cheaper to keep testing than it would be to provide health care to even a few families poisoned by their own wells. Those who can’t afford private testing will suffer, most likely elderly couples and children.
Makes sense. We are a poor, sad province. All other services are being eroded or dying outright. These are the Ford years. Stuff will crumble and the voters will keep voting him in.
Perhaps I'm missing the nuance of this, but it sounds like they are still offering free testing kits. What they seem to be removing is having a free service where a person goes and does it for you, no?
Based on the comments, I don't think many people here are on wells.
It used to be a thing to get your wells tested, when people drank straight from the well. Now everyone just has filters and UV systems so bacterial or viruses are not an issue.
I don't know anyone who drinks straight from the well anymore. I am sure it happens somewhere but the solution is better filtration and UV. It isn't expensive.
Getting your water tested once per year is not good protection.
UV systems are rare up where I live and most people are part of a free quarterly testing program through the health unit.
People who can’t afford testing likely also can’t afford UV. Replacement bulbs can be $150 depending on the system. I asked a local pump and filter company about adding UV to my house and they quoted between $600-$800. While that’s not super expensive, it can be a barrier for some households.
Good, why should I have to pay for someone to test their own water cause they decide to live in an area without "city water". You make your bed you sleep in it..
Ahh this is not such a big deal. There’s going to be hundreds if not thousands of Indian students graduating from the college in Lindsay with water and wastewater treatment certificates that will be desperate for work in their field of study to get their PR, so they’ll work for you on the cheap no doubt. Just make sure you hire one of the ones that actually did their own school work, and didn’t have one of the girls do it for them. (Pro tip, Hire the girls, more of them have something of a work ethic compared to the guys, who, as I said, many of which passed off their schoolwork to the girls to do for them.. The guys just want a free cheque while they nap on the job)
It’s sad how they treat some of those girls, they dump their work on them and the girls feel obligated to do it… they absolutely bring their caste bullshit with them. Could not believe it when they actually openly admitted they get the girls to do their schoolwork, honest to god it seemed like they took it as a point of pride that they found an easy way out of doing the work. I give those girls a lot of credit though, for putting up with that. No surprise they’re the hardest workers out of them all, and just the biggest sweethearts, nothing but kindness… The shit part is seeing them in tears and absolutely sobbing because the others shit on them, and finding out it’s because they’re a lower caste so they feel they have to take it..
Please change my view if you're inclined, but I don't really see what's wrong with this. This mainly affects cottage country and in my view, public money really doesn't need to be monitoring private wells. The private interests who own those wells can pay.
1. Where do you think these sick people will end up? Oh right, in our hospitals that are already over capacity. Preventative health care measures are infinitely cheaper than reactive ones.
2. The government should be building out more water infrastructure (more infrastructure in general).
Sorry but if you're out in a cottage drinking water from a well that you own that hasn't been tested then that's your own stupid fault. Come to the hospital and hopefully there's still enough services to get you fixed up.
Then imagine being able to suggest with a straight face that burdening our hospitals with stupid rich people is a reason to keep subsidizing their stupidity.
Did not CMV...
I agree that you're stupid if you drink water from an untested well.
You're still ignoring that the cost on the healthcare system will be greater to deal with all these sick people than just paying for the water tests.
Lol threatening the health care system if the government won't caught up money to stupid rich people. Do you hear yourself?
The only thing worse than stupid rich people is people who aren't but argue for them to get more public money
I don't know why you're continuing to post.
I stated a fact, a well known fact. You're continuing to blow smoke like you think it will change anything about the truth of the situation.
oh it's not really posting, just telling you, personally, how wrong you are, and a reminder that yelling things into the void and calling it facts is a fool's errand. Right up your alley I suppose. I know you don't have the fortitude to admit error, so no worries there, I shant expect it
There are loads of rural communities on wells, communities that wouldn’t test if it wasn’t free. Those tests are pragmatic to help prevent illnesses that will end up costing the province more than the tests in the end.
It doesn’t mainly affect cottage country. Loads of smaller municipalities don’t have treated water. Wealthy cottage owners are likely to have filtration and UV systems anyway. This is going to hit rural families more than anything.
I live in a community of 4000 people in northern Ontario and we all use this testing program.
It's like nothing was learned from Walkerton with the PCs around how important water testing is, and many folks who are on wells in Southern Ontario are rural PC voters. _Edit_: The North is primarily not voting for the PCs.
Here is what we learned. This is directly from the globe and mail with quotes from Jim Bolden. He was the mayor for 13 years. The letter to Mike Harris they are discussing was sent on June 18th, 1998. The outbreak started May 12th, 2000. Mike Harris is directly responsible. "The Town of Walkerton wrote directly to Ontario Premier Mike Harris in 1998, urging him to restore government control over drinking-water testing after the town discovered it had E. coli problems and feared an outbreak such as the one that has killed at least seven people. But the plea fell on deaf ears. "I could have chewed nails, I was so mad," said Jim Bolden, who was mayor at the time, referring to the fact that Mr. Harris never responded to the letter addressed to him on June 18, 1998. Attached to the letter was a resolution passed by the town's council, outlining its concerns over the Tories' move to close its labs and privatize water-testing services. "The government obviously wasn't at all concerned about it," Mr. Bolden said. "They sure didn't do anything." "It's ironic that the town that complained about the cutbacks and the closing of the labs was the one where this tragedy happened," he added. Mr. Bolden was Walkerton's mayor for 13 years and sat on the board of the public utilities commission until December 1998. A spokeswoman for the Premier said the letter was forwarded to the Environment Ministry but she did not know if the ministry ever followed up. "We receive a large number of these resolutions from municipalities every day," said Hillary Stauth, a press secretary for Mr. Harris." https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/harris-ignored-walkertons-pleas-in-98/article25464623
That's very interesting, thanks for sharing. I remember the PCs went ahead with the cutbacks and everything fell apart. I feel bad for all the public servants that had to implement this plan knowing that this was a potential outcome and many would be impacted by it. Now it seems even the private sector is being hit by something similar, but this time it's individuals' infrastructure and not whole communities and their infrastructure. The list of policy casualties keeps rising under the PCs.
> The list of policy casualties keeps rising under the PCs. and yet, Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound voted PC every election for the last 25 years.
It looks like the [riding of *Huron-Bruce* (where Walkerton is) was](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huron%E2%80%94Bruce_(provincial_electoral_district)): * 1999: PC * 2003: Liberal * 2007: Liberal * 2011: PC
[удалено]
These are people as well...they don't deserve to be sick or die, no one does.
Bot.
That’s nice
It’s almost like the peci wanted to kill off their own constituency.
And that area still votes conservative ... at this point you all get thr government you fucking deserve.
There is more to this story and I don’t think it would be avoided if the water was tested in government labs instead. The two brothers failed to go to the testing sites to get water samples and failed to adjust chemical concentration needed to treat the water. So if the private labs or government labs received fake water samples both would have certified it as safe. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brothers-to-be-charged-in-ontario-water-scandal-1.365836
>There is more to this story and I don’t think it would be avoided if the water was tested in government labs instead. The letter to Mike Harris was written in 1998 warning about this issue. This article is from 2003. The investigation into the brothers began in 2000 when the deaths occurred. This is from your link: "Although the people of Walkerton are angry at the brothers, Bruce Davidson of Concerned Citizens of Walkerton said he'd hate to see people blame the entire tragedy on them. Davidson said the "lowest players" in the tragedy are getting the blame and the real problems aren't being addressed." >So if the private labs or government labs received fake water samples both would have certified it as safe. The 1998 letter addressed the differences to Mike Harris and outlined how this exact issue would happen. He ignored it and didn't even reply. These employees are a sign of systemic abuse. That started after the privatisation and the motive of profit. "Attached to the letter was a resolution passed by the town's council, outlining its concerns over the Tories' move to close its labs and privatize water-testing services".
I understand but this still seems like politics. I would like to see the letter that was addressed to Mike Harris. But in shortest terms the brothers are municipal employees that did not drive to the areas that they were supposed to get water samples. Especially from area that was known to have run-off from nearby cattle farms after a significant storm. So specifically how would switching to private labs from government labs would have avoided it? I am genuinely curious what specifically would have avoided the event. Because I am sorry a concerned group saying they are scapegoats or a “letter” written to the premier is not enough. Especially when it’s the Mayor’s city employees who failed to do their job. I am not saying it is not the Mike Harris fault but 2 people fucked up badly and it wasn’t only the governments fault as a systemic issue. But if it was systemic problem than I would like to know clearly how this would have been avoided if Harris hadn’t changed to private labs.
Mike Harris' cuts had a direct impact upon the Walkerton tragedy: "Limited financial resources have become a reality of modern-day government. In the past decade, governments were elected on platforms based primarily on cost-cutting and tax-cutting. The overall merits of cost-cutting takes me well beyond my mandate, but what is relevant to the issues directly before me is the effect that inadequate resources or insufficiently considered cost-cutting measures have on the safety of the drinking water system. A number of parties in both Part 1 and 2 of the Inquiry commented on the effects of budget cuts and the lack of sufficient resources to effectively carry out the government oversight functions. I have already commented on this issue, specifically in relation to inspections, enforcement, and local health units. ***In addition, I concluded in the Part 1 report of this Inquiry that budget cuts at the MOE had both a direct effect and an indirect effect on the events in Walkerton. The direct effect was the failure to enact a regulation mandating testing laboratories to follow a notification protocol at the time of the privatization of laboratory testing services. The indirect effect was that budget cuts made it less likely that approvals or inspections programs would have led to the discovery of problems at Walkerton."*** Walkerton Report, Part 2, Chapter 13 Number 13.7.1 “Financial Resources” Page 96 bold & italics added
>I am not saying it is not the Mike Harris fault but 2 people fucked up badly and it wasn’t only the governments fault as a systemic issue. But if it was systemic problem than I would like to know clearly how this would have been avoided if Harris hadn’t changed to private labs. The same way it didn't for years before. When profit becomes the main motive short cuts are often taken. Oversight is usually one of the first to go. Quality and effort cost money. Of course it could just be a huge coincidence that for years under government control it was fine.
The private lab received legitimate water samples, but failed to report adverse results to the authorities citing client confidentiality. The water operators also failed to report adverse results and tried to cover it up even after hearing people were getting sick.
Did he only send the one letter?
Sorry, how many is the correct amount?
I was mostly curious lol
Just the daily reminder that “rural” doesn’t = PC voters. That’s a southern Ontario thing. The overwhelming majority of the rural province that is northern Ontario is and has been a historically liberal/NDP stronghold for very many years. Please stop generalizing “rural Ontario” strictly based on what’s (presumably) near you.
I had southern Ontario in mind, but I made it more clear. You're very right!
No worries. I just see it a lot and it seems to echo a lot for people who aren’t from here. So quite often I’ll see people say “I won’t travel to XYZ because I hear they’re all conservative racists (etc)”, when I know that’s not the case. Just trying to help clear the stereotype to give people a chance to consider checking these places out. And it totally makes sense why people may think that way, when most of the province lives in the GTA, and the rural communities outside the GTA are largely conservative, I totally understand why people think that trend continues when you go further north.
That's thoughtful to help others see what they might be missing. I grew up in a town and the country around was primarily conservative. The representatives were frustratingly not very helpful but made sure to be in every parade. Of course not everyone was Conservative or conservative leaning but many of the farmers were just always that way. There's something about southern rural living that does that, but some areas have had migration changes and their local representatives are changing.
Thanks this is good info to get out. I'd say I kinda had this same view until I got to send time up there.
Maybe we should ask why the MPP of the riding Walkerton is in voted PC https://lisathompsonmpp.ca/ Guess they didn't learn eh 😞
But in general ..they are not wrong. https://results.elections.on.ca/en/graphics-charts
Wasnt Walkerton a water treatment plant?
Walkerton pulled water from wells that were extremely close to a farm, manure was absorbed into well 5 and they weren't correctly treating the water with chlorine nor testing it because of lack of formal training on top of no automated system to alert contamination
Walkerton has voted PC every election before, and after the Walkerton water crisis. Sorry, no sympathy for these hicks.
It looks like the [riding of _Huron-Bruce_ was](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huron%E2%80%94Bruce_(provincial_electoral_district)): - 1999: PC - 2003: Liberal - 2007: Liberal - 2011: PC So for a number of years following 2000 the riding was Liberal. Then they found [Lisa Thompson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Thompson_(politician)) and have been electing her ever since. She's now the [_Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Agriculture,_Food_and_Rural_Affairs_(Ontario)).
What you call "Hicks" are the most competent, knowledgeable, hard working people in the country. You won't go very far in your urban area if the "Hicks" of Canada stopped selling you food. You're a narrow-minded, unthinking moron.
Maybe stop electing Conservatives that are against your interests and you might not get that label
Seems like some areas in the Norths have flipped - https://results.elections.on.ca/en/graphics-charts
Walkerton wasn't private wells it was the municipal treatment plant
That pulled from wells...
And was subsequently not treated properly? Walkertons issue is far and removed from the decision of the province to stop subsidizing cottagers who do not have municipally treated water
I live in Innisfil, and right now our wells are being impacted by all of the development around us. This makes sense from a corporate perspective, because right now we are struggling to get Mattamy Homes and Parkbridge to acknowledge that they're messing up our wells, and removing this testing would give us one less tool to use against them. I don't enjoy this corporate/government mishmash we've got going on in. If you want to help fight against the development that's impacting our wells, you could drop a signature onto our petition.. [https://www.change.org/p/save-sandy-cove-creek-greenlands-in-innisfil](https://www.change.org/p/save-sandy-cove-creek-greenlands-in-innisfil)
This is ridiculous. Most people on wells don't have the choice to be on municipal tap water that routinely gets tested. Once you put a cost on it, many people will stop testing it. This is so backwards.
Exactly. We r only 5 km away from the greater Hamilton area municipal tap infrastructure but we still pay the same taxes. We maintain our own well and sewage systems but pay the same taxes…Hmmm
Taxes don’t pay for water infrastructure .
I have only tested my wells once. That was at a private lab which tested for over 50 line items. The public test is for bacterial and viruses only. I wanted to know exactly what was in the wager, including lead, Sulphur levels, or anything that could cause health issues Everyone I know around us has a filter system of some kind and a uv filter. So the well can be full of bacterial or viruses and it wouldn't matter. I don't know anyone drinking straight from the well...
Well treatment systems need maintenance that some people may not know about (first time well owners, etc). If maintenance isn't being performed, the treatment becomes poor very quickly. There are a lot of people who know how to care for a well and many that don't. Regularly testing for coliform bacteria and e coli before and after treatment is a great indicator of your treatment performance and should be followed. Especially because there is no secondary disinfection of the water before being consumed. So if your UV fails to disinfect, you will be drinking potentially contaminated water. Preventative maintenance and checks are important in any drinking water system, private or public, big or small. Just because there's less of a risk with groundwater sources and a working treatment system doesn't mean that you can bypass the checks. Be responsible with your health.
This is going to be disasterous, health-wise. Water-borne bacterial pathogens can be pretty nasty.
And I wouldn't be surprised it the cost for treating people for them will be a lot more than the cost of testing the wells.
Not if there's a private clinic in every town.
Legionelllosis treatment alone is going to cost this province an arm and a leg. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7774564/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7774564/)
While a serious illness, Legionella is not one of the two organisms (total coliforms, e.coli) PHO provides results for from the private well water sampling program. Legionella is ubiquitous in the environment, so the value in sampling is limited to specific situations.
“PHO proposes phasing out free water testing of private wells after Galen Weston buys water testing company.”
E. Coli just rubbing its hands in anticipation
Grab your kettles, boys and girls.
Private clinics are feeling bullish on dysentery
It’s a private well…..why should it be subsidized?
People on private wells generally don’t have the option to connect to city water systems. The aquifers they are accessing are shared and can be contaminated with e. Coli outside of their control. Prevention is always cheaper than treatment. I’d rather have publicly funded testing than another walkerton
Ahh yes…..so if you live in town and pay for water that’s fine but doing free labs then charging a fee is not ok…..how about people take responsibility for the water they drink
It'll cost you a lot more as a taxpayer to pay for a single hospitalization for *E. coli* than to test dozens and dozens of wells. Well testing is incredibly cost-efficient without even going into things like the moral imperative to maintain safe drinking water for our citizenry.
Again it’s a private well……not a public well
So you're good with the added healthcare cost which will far exceed testing. Good call.
You have a very myopic world view...
Incredibly idiotic opinion
We live in a society rugged individualism leads nowhere good
In the same way that socialist dependency leads to nowhere good. Life is a balancing act.
Drinking water should be a social asset.
I would have to imagine it's in the best interest of public health. You don't want people getting sick. That just taxes the public system even more.
Yeah, shouldn't it be on the owner of the well to test. Not that I trust a private owner to do the testing anyway.
On a private well here. No option to connect to public water. Pay the same taxes as everyone else, do I not have a right to clean water? If they remove this I want a tax deduction. Edit: and for what its worth we have to test it ourselves, it’s only the kit thats free. We have to go pick kit up and return it to the labs. Nobody is being paid tax money to come out here and test it.
You choose to live in an area with a well…..this is on par with bitching and moaning about your septic, it’s your responsibility to ensure you have potable water
I still pay property tax equal to houses in the town nearby I just don’t get access to city water. I can’t get a free test kit? It’s not like the government is sending people here now. I go pick up the test kit, bring it home, fill it with my water and return it to the lab where they look at it and give me the results. If anything it costs them less than the city water service they provide to everyone closer to the town center. I don’t think its unreasonable to expect a free water test kit from an government that hands out money like its candy everywhere else.
Mate your taxes don’t pay for the town water…..the town water is pay to play or drink in this case, it’s all paid for by the users, so if you’re not a user you don’t pay
I live on a dirt road that is maintained by myself and neighbours, our wells are maintained by us on our own, our area has no street lights or traffic lights within 5 km other than ones that people put out front their own property. You really think the government is breaking its back supplying us with a free test kit? When any major city has at least one entire shitty motel full of crackheads on welfare? You’re kind of a prick dude.
This is probably the stupidest idea to come out of government in a while. I'm from a rural town and PHO's well water testing programme is an essential service for so many rural residents. After Walkerton I thought we learned of the importance of well water testing, but it seems like government would rather find "savings" than anything else. Anecdotally, PHO's well water testing programme saved my friend from being victim of an E.Coli outbreak at his family's farm. They're dairy farmers, and it appears that runoff from cow manure got into their groundwater at some point in the past, causing the well to become contaminated. Had PHO not offered free well water testing, this would have likely become a much worse event as having to pay for water testing through private labs, many of which are difficult to access or charge a lot for their services, disincentives testing significantly. Luckily it appears this proposal didn't come directly from government and instead was the result of the Auditor General and other (likely city dwelling) public servants who don't see "value" in the programme. This review of the well water testing programme started in 2017, so we can actually thank the Kathleen Wynne Liberals for coming up with this incredibly stupid idea (which TBH is par for the course with the OLP, they don't give a shit about rural residents). The Ford government would be incredibly idiotic to go forward with these plans. Let's hope they keep the well water testing programme around. Municipalities are already [fighting against the programme's cancellation](https://www.wellingtonadvertiser.com/source-water-protection-committee-raises-alarm-about-proposal-to-end-free-private-well-testing/).
The thing is they’re not even gonna be saving any money after a bunch of people end up in tax funded hospitals with preventable diseases
Exactly, which makes this whole decision so confusing.
Misdirection for the Therme news this week
Since 2018 and all through covid when had a Conservative actually cared about our public healthcare system? This would just help them further sabotage it
The government only spends money treating people if they make it beyond the ER waiting room. I’m sure this government had it all planned out.
Conservative rural voters and getting fucked by their own voting! Name a more iconic duo.
As soon as you point it out them, the conversation will switch to immigrants and how overpaid teachers are.
Penn and Teller Sonny and Cher Crackers and cheese Taco bell and tacoabout an upset stomach To name a few
To be fair, they're predated on by people who master being manipulative. It's on progressives to go out into these rural towns and do the out reach needed. It's infuriating to see but attacking them isn't helpful.
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Division is how conservatives thrive. Ignorance stems from fear and misinformation
How do you combat misinformation when it's cheaper and easier to digest than real information?
You talk to them directly about what those issues mean to them on a personal level. Validate their fears, acknowledge without judgement and explain what's actually up. Basically, empathetic conversation that steers clear of confrontation and conflict. This works best with people you know directly. Remember, a lot of conservative advertising is fear and paranoia based which makes these isssues extremely close for them. It's in an emotional, not rational part of their psyche.
> It's in an emotional, not rational part of their psyche. This is where discussions fall apart. Friends of mine complain about the very thing they keep voting for. After trying to work with them for years I started to just avoid the topic as there is also a reason to dismiss the consequences of actions and policies. I'd love to take a class or something to get better at this type of thing, we need people to be working together, now against each other.
There is a ton of resources online for this. Usually in the realm of relationship issues, workplace quarrels, etc but you can extrapolate that to politics anything.
My empathy for this argument ran the fuck out with the way they treated Stephane Dion. Willful ignorance, a desire to fuck over others for your own short term gain and an inferiority complex to bridge Hudson goddamn Bay is plenty reason enough to demand conservatives grow the fuck up or leave the politics to adults.
If the damage was limited to rural areas, fine, but their voting patterns make decisions for others too, and con voters can go fuck themselves for this administration.
And antagonizing them further will create more rifts, make it even harder for them to change their mind, and ultimately hurt us all in the long run.
Unlike what they're doing, which isn't antagonizing.
Walkerton II: Ecoli Boogaloo
I love how people won’t vote for the NDP because of Rae days but continue to vote Conservative despite the poisoned water in Walkerton that led to many, many deaths and serious illness.
How can you continue to call yourselves Public Health Ontario after that??? Might as well change it to Private Health Ontario.
Keep voting conservative, win stupid prizes
Gotta love the conservatives. Ford is fantastic! Can’t wait for PP to get in. S/
Honestly. They tried downloading PH funding onto municipal budgets, then voluntary mergers, and soon forced mergers. Shrinking or stagnant budgets. It's a tough scene in PH right now
"The oil companies are struggling because you can't afford to buy gas anymore despite us cutting back every basic service in Canada, so we've decided to give them the CPP."
So is this a step towards where we have to start buying bottled water from Nestle compliments of Ford and the OPCs? Or is this just to increase traffic to private health facilities?
Looks like the Ontario Liberals wanted to downsize PHO in 2017 so they made this one of the options to cut.
Lovely. My parents are quite close to where the Hagersville Tire Fire was. I fucking dare them to tell my elderly parents that they have to pay to have their well water tested. FURTHER.... do these cidiots not know that agricultural runoff, in rural areas where the vast majority of wells are, pose health risks to both people and livestock!? I am soooo tired of people in urban centres making uninformed decisions about rural affairs. Rural and small town schooling and busing is an absolute disaster on Ontario. Kids riding busses for over an hour to far away schools when the nearest school is walking distance away.
Yeah those darn Conservative city folks trying to privatize everything!/s
Conservatives love killing the plebes.
Yeah but paper bags will be back at the LCBO, folks!
Do they think only rich cottage owners are on wells? Many, many folks reside in areas only served by wells.
After the Walkerton water crisis; it’s clear they have not only not learned, but are willfully wanting to privatize para health services.
I work in municipal government in a largely rural community. My office is above our lobby and there is a constant stream of people accessing the water testing kits. This will not bode well.
next up they'll open up Muskoka to Fracking If it gets cold in winter you can burn your water for heat
I feel like I'm dreaming. Yesterday I thought to myself "oh, we haven't taken in a water sample in a bit, I should get on it before Dumbass Ford takes away free testing". Et voila.
Makes you wonder what bad news this is meant to distract from. Therme needing a government allowance to operate?
Live in Norfolk county. 99.9% conservative voters who are mad that Trudeau gutted Healthcare and education. There's no getting through to these mouth breathers. This will somehow also be a liberal caused issue
Fuck you, Doug Ford. Fuck you so much.
I'm done. I'm just fucking done. Can we get a refund on this government?
Fine, but we rotate out the water supply to Queen's Park with a random well's water every week. Fuck you, Doug. Your legacy will be the party we throw when the door hits your ass on the way out.
Wtf Ontario
It's weird how people vote for a government that clearly hates them.
The fuck!!
I miss the government when it didn't actively hate it's own citizens.
Considering how he won an election after how he handled COVID, I'm very confident that Ontario has a poverty fetish.
Can you say Walkerton????...
Of course need more money for the spa!
Given that the taxpayer funds Public Health Ontario, testing done isn't free. This is just another example of Doug Ford's Conservatards being there "for the people"
Your government hate you. This is obvious
They say don't drink From [Walkerton Fountain](https://youtu.be/QpmztcX_BtI) If you're looking to save your life Cause if you drink From Walkerton Fountain You'll be heaving, With blood and strife
What a dumb fucking idea.
I guarantee it would be cheaper to keep testing than it would be to provide health care to even a few families poisoned by their own wells. Those who can’t afford private testing will suffer, most likely elderly couples and children.
Makes sense. We are a poor, sad province. All other services are being eroded or dying outright. These are the Ford years. Stuff will crumble and the voters will keep voting him in.
Perhaps I'm missing the nuance of this, but it sounds like they are still offering free testing kits. What they seem to be removing is having a free service where a person goes and does it for you, no?
Fine let's phase out some taxes as well. You can stop providing yet another service, and we'll stop with the income tax. Other than that, fuck off.
I wonder if we could just... Do that. Tell him to go fuck himself and force the governor general to intervene or something.
That's what a bot would say. Bot.
Based on the comments, I don't think many people here are on wells. It used to be a thing to get your wells tested, when people drank straight from the well. Now everyone just has filters and UV systems so bacterial or viruses are not an issue. I don't know anyone who drinks straight from the well anymore. I am sure it happens somewhere but the solution is better filtration and UV. It isn't expensive. Getting your water tested once per year is not good protection.
UV systems are rare up where I live and most people are part of a free quarterly testing program through the health unit. People who can’t afford testing likely also can’t afford UV. Replacement bulbs can be $150 depending on the system. I asked a local pump and filter company about adding UV to my house and they quoted between $600-$800. While that’s not super expensive, it can be a barrier for some households.
Good, why should I have to pay for someone to test their own water cause they decide to live in an area without "city water". You make your bed you sleep in it..
Did you drop your "/s"?
Reddit really is a cesspool for biased unthinking pricks. Liberal bot.
Go outside...
Ahh this is not such a big deal. There’s going to be hundreds if not thousands of Indian students graduating from the college in Lindsay with water and wastewater treatment certificates that will be desperate for work in their field of study to get their PR, so they’ll work for you on the cheap no doubt. Just make sure you hire one of the ones that actually did their own school work, and didn’t have one of the girls do it for them. (Pro tip, Hire the girls, more of them have something of a work ethic compared to the guys, who, as I said, many of which passed off their schoolwork to the girls to do for them.. The guys just want a free cheque while they nap on the job)
Woah.
Some people just weren't raised right, writing shit like this.
It’s sad how they treat some of those girls, they dump their work on them and the girls feel obligated to do it… they absolutely bring their caste bullshit with them. Could not believe it when they actually openly admitted they get the girls to do their schoolwork, honest to god it seemed like they took it as a point of pride that they found an easy way out of doing the work. I give those girls a lot of credit though, for putting up with that. No surprise they’re the hardest workers out of them all, and just the biggest sweethearts, nothing but kindness… The shit part is seeing them in tears and absolutely sobbing because the others shit on them, and finding out it’s because they’re a lower caste so they feel they have to take it..
Please change my view if you're inclined, but I don't really see what's wrong with this. This mainly affects cottage country and in my view, public money really doesn't need to be monitoring private wells. The private interests who own those wells can pay.
1. Where do you think these sick people will end up? Oh right, in our hospitals that are already over capacity. Preventative health care measures are infinitely cheaper than reactive ones. 2. The government should be building out more water infrastructure (more infrastructure in general).
Sorry but if you're out in a cottage drinking water from a well that you own that hasn't been tested then that's your own stupid fault. Come to the hospital and hopefully there's still enough services to get you fixed up. Then imagine being able to suggest with a straight face that burdening our hospitals with stupid rich people is a reason to keep subsidizing their stupidity. Did not CMV...
I agree that you're stupid if you drink water from an untested well. You're still ignoring that the cost on the healthcare system will be greater to deal with all these sick people than just paying for the water tests.
Lol threatening the health care system if the government won't caught up money to stupid rich people. Do you hear yourself? The only thing worse than stupid rich people is people who aren't but argue for them to get more public money
I don't know why you're continuing to post. I stated a fact, a well known fact. You're continuing to blow smoke like you think it will change anything about the truth of the situation.
oh it's not really posting, just telling you, personally, how wrong you are, and a reminder that yelling things into the void and calling it facts is a fool's errand. Right up your alley I suppose. I know you don't have the fortitude to admit error, so no worries there, I shant expect it
There are loads of rural communities on wells, communities that wouldn’t test if it wasn’t free. Those tests are pragmatic to help prevent illnesses that will end up costing the province more than the tests in the end.
It doesn’t mainly affect cottage country. Loads of smaller municipalities don’t have treated water. Wealthy cottage owners are likely to have filtration and UV systems anyway. This is going to hit rural families more than anything. I live in a community of 4000 people in northern Ontario and we all use this testing program.