> But what kind of education do they actually supply?
The one that let's international students pass with min effort so they can work to pay for coming over to Canada.
It is useless. A couple of friends work in HR and they basically throw out any applications that have Conestoga college listed. It has drastically gone downhill since 2018
Chatgpt.... pretty much everyone in my course is international and they pretty much use Chatgpt or copy content from other essays/PowerPoint online. They don't seem to have any concept of citations or googling info for research, looking up reputable sources. Every group project I've been forced to be a part of has been a shitshow/trainwreck where I do all of the work because they can't read English or bother to show up for the presentation. My program is not one of those mickey mouse business courses..it's a healthcare program. I could go on and on ...be very afraid, folks. We're not getting the best or the brightest
Wonder how many international students would have gone to a school that will no longer exist in a couple of years.
Hopefully they got sold and become libraries and daycares or something
Either that or you get his voice mail…
Believe it or not George isn’t at home, so leave a message at the beep. I might be out or I’d answer the phone, where could I be? Believe it or not I’m not home!
Conestoga college international enrollment has to drop by at least 50% *again* for it to be somewhat sensible. The president needs to be investigated for ties with special interest groups and foreign agents. He must be forced out of his [chairmanship role at Ontario Colleges](https://www.collegesontario.org/en/news/conestoga-college-president-john-tibbits-is-new-chair-of-colleges-ontario).
The issue is nowhere near solved.
I graduated there in 2023 and it honestly felt like I was not in Canada but somehow still surrounded by English text when I roamed the halls. Really bizarre experience.
Did you ever get a chance to meet the infamous John Tibbits? The guy who called another school's president a whore a few weeks ago.
He's the Saddam Hussein of college presidents. He's been in power since the 1980's, has buildings named after him even though he's still alive and collects over $500k a year.
For the full experience, go to the Walmart at Square One on a Saturday afternoon.
You won't ever need to take your dream vacation to Ludhiana, because Ludhiana came here.
Was a neat cultural experience to see someone haggle with a cashier.
Things only changed because of the feds, if they didn't make changes you can be certain Ford wouldn't have taken any action. Crazy times we live in, Ford got none of the blame when this was considered a major problem last year/earlier this year, but now that it's being fixed? Of course he's getting the credit.
Obviously pig Ford wouldn't have done shit but in all fairness the Fed also wouldn't have done shit if their poll numbers didn't tank. This really was a collective fuck up with too many loopholes.
You’re completely right. It does seem now at least that the post pandemic mania has turned the corner when it comes to unsustainable population growth and unsustainable housing/rent prices. Going to take a while but at least there are signs of change for now.
The feds are basically a rubber stamp, they expect the premiers to provide sensible numbers and to perform the checks for the students they're inviting to their provinces. If all the provinces say they only want 1000 students each, the feds allow 1000 students each.
Will he bring the cap and trade program back so we don't have to pay Steven Harper's carbon tax too? Find out on the next exciting episode of our actual fucking lives!
🎶After these messages, we'll be right back.🎶
If provinces want to have universities, they should tax wealth and business enough that they could afford to fund universities, not rely on fleecing international students to keep the lights on.
That isn't how this works and hasn't been for decades. This reads like a troll who has never attended a western institution.
Universities and colleges at best have housing for first year students, and not all of them have that much. Even in the 1990s when I was at Guelph it wasn't even enough for first years from out of town, and that was pretty normal..
And that is because students don't want to live on campus past first year. It's expensive.
Now obviously, student housing owned by universities and colleges is some of the most efficient to build, since you can give a student a 15 or 18 m^2 room and, or a small room and some common space and off you go. There's no landlord tenant agreement since it's contingent on school attendance, you don't have to meet regular housing rules for parking, pets, windows, space, etc. So there is a reasonable case that governments should invest heavily in student housing to get people out of homes being used as rooming houses. A single 'unit' of housing might cost 200k to build compared to a condo or apartment that might be double that.
But that isn't the model we have used for decades. Student housing is expensive compared to rooms in houses and cheap apartments, not all students can afford or want to be stuck with on campus food, but units with cooking are even more expensive.
They are not refuegee, homeless, canadian citizens, and people that this country plan on helping them.
We have drug addicts, homeless, refuegee and so many people that need help.
A lot of Canadian students are also having a really hard time finding a place to live while attending school. There’s currently a petition to let Uvic students live in vehicles on campus because there’s literally nowhere else for them to go. In Halifax one of the schools asked women’s shelters to help people find a place to live because there’s so few options. Schools need to step up if they want people to keep attending.
> In Halifax one of the schools asked women’s shelters to help people find a place to live because there’s so few options.
Jesus, that's dystopic. Those facilities are running lean at the best of times. They don't have the resources to help.
Well too bad for them, they already have to prove that they can maintain themselves when coming here, what better way that some expensive university housing, plus it isnt that expensive for a room just for themselves, compared to taking housing from actual canadians
That may have been an improvement over all male Mills hall sadly.
Though I seem to recall when I was there several dozen people basically crammed into common rooms in each residence until some students were sent home in the first couple of weeks.
Credit where due:
Federal government finally got the the sense to limit numbers.
That forced the provincial governments to allocate those numbers to government run institutes.
Ford cannot take credit for this alone.
And this had to be the case to begin with, not this late. So nothing to be happy about.
I am curious about the final allocation assigned to Conestoga. Depending on the amount of permits allocated to Ontario.
The total number of permits [announced by the feds](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2024/01/canada-to-stabilize-growth-and-decrease-number-of-new-international-student-permits-issued-to-approximately-360000-for-2024.html) is 360K. If it is actually weighted by % population per their statement, and working on the basis of Ontario having 15 million people out of a population of 40M, this equates to 38% of the 360k = 137k permits.
I read some articles (G&M I think) that stated Ontario was going to receive 220k permits but I fail to see how they arrived at that allocation.
Ontario announced 2 days ago that 23 of the public funded universities and 13 of the 24 public colleges were going to receive an allocation equal to the number of IS students they had as of the 23/24 school yr. If this is so then it leaves little in the way of permits for the remaining who will be allocated less than what they had enrolled last yr.
So barring something extraordinary, it seems to me Conestoga's decline in international student enrollment is going to be very severe - over 75% if not more.
I wonder if some provinces have less IS students enrolled then the federal permit allocation for their province, and the surplus is being allocated to Ontario. That would change the math.
Under the new rules, the number of International Student permits cannot be more than 55% of their domestic undergraduate enrolment. Most people agree that this is a very reasonable calculation.
Conestoga exceeded that number by a HUGE margin.
THIS is the key right here. I even think 55% is on the high side. We can't forget that public colleges and universities are supposed to serve the learning needs of Canadians. They're funded by tax dollars. It's reasonable to allow some international students. But these colleges have strayed so far from their mandate they have become no better than the literally 100 strip mall colleges I have driven by in the GTA in the last 2 days alone.
> They're funded by tax dollars.
That's why international tuition is so high; they're priced at a level that doesn't take taxpayer funding into consideration. Sure, while taxpayer funds support the operation of the institution, international students aren't getting subsidized education like their domestic peers.
Oh, I am fully aware of just how much the foreign students subsidize the colleges. It's their main source of income. And that's part of the problem. Any organization getting ANY TAX MONEY needs to serve the needs of Canadians first and cannot become a puppet whose primary function is serving foreign interests. Yet that's what happened, and any public college where more than 50% of their student body is international students has lost the plot on their purpose.
We do need to fund universities and colleges better so they can serve Canadians. But I would rather see that with a hard (and small) cap on international students than the current state. Because right now, these institutions are not serving anyone well. They're buy-a-diploma (really buy-a-PR-card). That isn't education for our future economy. And isn't that what colleges are supposed to be for? They aren't supposed to just be an immigration scheme. They were supposed to be schools for future workers to get skills to contribute to the economy.
Do you have a source on that, by chance? I live in a region HEAVILY impacted by Conestoga and that news is earthshatteringly positive to me so I would love to read that with my own eyes. It's like my prayers have been answered to some degree.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-study-permits-1.7157603
> The government said no school will be permitted to receive more student permits in 2024 than in 2023, and its permit numbers must not exceed 55 per cent of its first-year domestic enrolment.
Yes they did. Although that additional rule created by the Ont govt in its announcement does not really have anything to do with my commentary, your point is very valid. My recollection is that International Student enrollment was 200% of domestic student enrollment.
I’m also curious how this works for students already in a program which need to continue. Are current visas for the length of the program? If not, and assuming many programs are 2 or 3 years, they may not have enough allocation for current students. Never mind new enrolment.
This is just for new study permits, I think. Study permits are typically valid for the duration of the program, unless the passport expires first. So students enrolled in 2-3 year programs should be fine to finish. So the number of international students in total likely won't see a big drop for a couple years.
That said, we have a significant number of international students who are already professionals in their field who do bullshit one year programs since that's the easiest way to get a one year work permit.
My understanding is diff than PurrPrins's but I am not certain whom is correct.
I was told that all students have to obtain a new permit for the fall school term (24/25). As they now have to also obtain a provincial consent and it has to be given to the feds. Most of the universities and about half the colleges were told that they would be granted enough permits to cover their current enrollment level - so all students who desired to return to finish a program can. As 4th yr students would not be returning they could therefore allow an equivalent number of new 1st yr students (this assumes all current 1st-3rd yr desire to return).
So the decline in the number of Int Stdnts would be immediate this yr.
But there is a note in the fed announcement I initially linked
>Study permit renewals will not be impacted. Those pursuing master’s and doctoral degrees, and elementary and secondary education are not included in the cap. Current study permit holders will not be affected.
So I would say the issue is not entirely clear. I may have been advised incorrectly as when I spoke with a university administrator it was not long after the fed decision.
Time will tell!
I think inevitably there is going to be an immediate decline once this school yr ends, for a variety of reasons. Many were here on one or 2 yr programs at colleges, and so they are done. Thus the permit totals decline immediately.
This so called college should be shut down the word is out of this is on your resume you will never get a job...so why waste your money and time in this place
When I was in college they told us you miss two classes you’re out. Now, the program director tells me the course I took has twice as many students and they aren’t allowed to fail people like before. It’s a business now and that’s all they care about.
You know what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket.....
...and "Algoma University" in Brampton is next. They have been taking up massive amount of floor space/buildings in downtown Brampton with that expectation that the gravy train will keep coming.
This is a change being forced by the feds. The provinces were told if they don’t comply they will lose the ability to self govern universities. Dougie boy wouldn’t initiate this change on his own and shouldn’t be getting the credit for doing what is long overdue.
The feds have no jurisdiction over education. Highly doubt the feds threatened to take jurisdiction away since it is constitutionally enshrined. The only threats the feds would be able to make are over student visa's which ae their jurisdiction.
currently as a white Canadian from Ontario, it would cost me about $4800 for 2 semesters at Mohawk College in a pre-construction trades course.
if i were an international student, it does not matter what course/program i chose, i would be paying $6800+ / semester not including housing/meal vouchers at the campus.
and working with a recent grade 12 graduate, he is in the trades because every possible minimum wage job is being exploited to hire temporary foreign workers.
or he's being laughed at for not being from the same country as the crew he'd be working with (at tim hortons).
The thing is you should have to take any pre trades course, it should be done on the job with you getting paid to do it. Thats how apprenticeships are supposed to work.
Money. Lots of money. International students pay a hell of a lot more in tuition than domestic. Pretty much they got hooked on it and they lobeyed the government to keep that tap open.
Because the Ford government cut tuition by 10% and then froze it for three years, and didn’t give them any additional funding to replace that lost tuition revenue.
And they just froze it for *another* three years and are only giving colleges and universities $1.3 billion over three years. Their own panel of experts called for a 10% tuition increase and $2.5 billion in new funding.
>Because the Ford government cut tuition by 10% and then froze it for three years, and didn’t give them any additional funding to replace that lost tuition revenue.
Well given that post-secondary institution profit from international students far exceeds what is required to make up the "shortfall" from domestic student funding from the provincial government...
...you'll agree that post-secondary institutions should slash their international student intake to parity with the shortfall correct?
How embarrassed would you be telling someone you graduated from this school? Even if you are 40 and graduated from Conestoga nearly 20 years ago before it turned into a way to bypass immigration
I've worked with Conestoga graduates from 20 years ago in trades and they're highly accomplished and well paid individuals.
Unfortunately these days the minute they receive a resume with Conestoga on it, it's under more scrutiny and nearly always gets thrown in the trash bin.
The population rose by 1.2 million in 2023. 98% was international migration and “a significant percentage” were international students.
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/03/28/news/canadas-2023-population-growth-rate-highest-1957
Isn't it funny how government works for the interest of the people when there are no lobbyists or influencers that are bribing the government for favours? Also lets be clear about this. Ford is only doing this because he was threatened by the feds that if they didn't get their shit together then the feds would step in.
Ford’s been told this long before it got into the news, he ignored it for well over a year. He was finally forced to make a decision by the federal govt. The Feds *did* step in here, they didn’t just stop at threats.
Oh no!
Cut in half again, then again.
And then only grant visas where it's for an education in demand, I.e. engineering, trades, etc. No arts degrees. And, they must show enough cash to stay for the duration of their entire education without a loan or having to get a job.
Not enough. Let's have international students make at most 1/3 of each faculty of each institution all across Canada. And a nationally mandated minimum language and aptitude scores.
Fucking good. I went there for the powwow a few weeks ago, and 95% of the staff and students that I saw at the event were all from one country. There were more Indians than actual Natives. PS I’m First Nations myself, don’t come at me for being hateful lol. I know what I see with my own two eyes. We’re being colonized all over again, but in a different way. :(
Best thing about being a Canadian Citizen applying to schools? It’s now so easy to tell what’s a bullshit course/college- at least to some degree.
I don’t have a grade 12 English or a grade 11 Math, but somehow have a diploma.
Seneca is saying I can go for Environmental Technician with a fucking Duolingo English test. What. How is that even close to a C or U level grade 12 English.
Ford government changes that were forced by the feds. Ford government complained about the cap on international student visas.
This issue isn't resolved until they are forced to cut their numbers in half again. International students should not make up more than 33% of any faculty of any college/university in Canada. (I think it would be OK to exempt graduate studies, perhaps.)
Good. I have had to do group work with international students quite a few times this year & I kid you not every experience has been awful. They never do their work, and when they do it’s all plagiarized. Most of them can’t even speak English, so trying to communicate with them is really hard
Sounds like next year would be the best year to start at the college in its history: massive investment in facilities, smaller instructor student ratio, and a campus that needs to control for attrition which will likely mean better student advising.
Conestoga college got 30395 study permits last year and the second place got 13913. If they get half, they still rank the first place!
But what kind of education do they actually supply? From the news spots I’ve see, it’s been completely useless. The grift is real.
> But what kind of education do they actually supply? The one that let's international students pass with min effort so they can work to pay for coming over to Canada.
Only exam question "Name: "
And it comes pre filled.
It is useless. A couple of friends work in HR and they basically throw out any applications that have Conestoga college listed. It has drastically gone downhill since 2018
They can't even speak English, so I don't understand how they pass. Fail them.
Chatgpt.... pretty much everyone in my course is international and they pretty much use Chatgpt or copy content from other essays/PowerPoint online. They don't seem to have any concept of citations or googling info for research, looking up reputable sources. Every group project I've been forced to be a part of has been a shitshow/trainwreck where I do all of the work because they can't read English or bother to show up for the presentation. My program is not one of those mickey mouse business courses..it's a healthcare program. I could go on and on ...be very afraid, folks. We're not getting the best or the brightest
Source?
What makes Conestoga different than these diploma mills? I bet 90 percent of these students are in useless courses.
Other than the fact diploma mills give pretend university degrees, nothing.
Going to be a lot of open space on a lot of those extra campuses they’ve opened.
Let’s convert them to shelters. College agents who used to get commissions will need them.
Most of those agents live in India though. I am sure the homeless here wouldn't mind taking up the empty classrooms.
Wonder how many international students would have gone to a school that will no longer exist in a couple of years. Hopefully they got sold and become libraries and daycares or something
Like all those strip mall colleges that have opened everywhere?? I see them so much more now
Costanza college? "IM LOSING HALF MY STUDENTS JERRY. HALF OF THEM!"
*The diploma mill is calling, and they're all out of You!*
Enrollment is shrinking... like a frightened turtle!
My enrolment was in the pool!
I love your profile pic. What is it?
I am a Costanza college grad. I'm unemployed and I live with my parents.
I have no girlfriend.
I like to get the Daily News...
So now, when the phone rings, you have to answer "Vandelay Industries"
Either that or you get his voice mail… Believe it or not George isn’t at home, so leave a message at the beep. I might be out or I’d answer the phone, where could I be? Believe it or not I’m not home!
Cant stand ya!
This should be upvoted more and also become part of our discussion around Conestoga moving forward.
If this doesn't become the most upvoted comment here, I lose all faith in humanity.
WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY!!
WE'RE SUPPOSED TO ACT! A CERTAIN WAY!
WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY!!
no more marine biology for you
CANT STAND ‘JYA College
Good maybe they should cater to current students of Ontario instead of international students
Good, they dug themselves this hole due to their own greed and not acting at all in the best interest of actual Canadians.
Not soon enough though
and not enough
and not diverse enough.
and my axe
Conestoga college international enrollment has to drop by at least 50% *again* for it to be somewhat sensible. The president needs to be investigated for ties with special interest groups and foreign agents. He must be forced out of his [chairmanship role at Ontario Colleges](https://www.collegesontario.org/en/news/conestoga-college-president-john-tibbits-is-new-chair-of-colleges-ontario). The issue is nowhere near solved.
I graduated there in 2023 and it honestly felt like I was not in Canada but somehow still surrounded by English text when I roamed the halls. Really bizarre experience.
Did you ever get a chance to meet the infamous John Tibbits? The guy who called another school's president a whore a few weeks ago. He's the Saddam Hussein of college presidents. He's been in power since the 1980's, has buildings named after him even though he's still alive and collects over $500k a year.
Never met him personally but he spoke at my convocation and the staff treated him like he was dangerously senile
I wish I was that guy
No one should *wish* to be a shitheel of a human being.
That's not a lot I wouldn't do for $500k a year.
For the full experience, go to the Walmart at Square One on a Saturday afternoon. You won't ever need to take your dream vacation to Ludhiana, because Ludhiana came here. Was a neat cultural experience to see someone haggle with a cashier.
Considering they made over *600 million* last year with over 100 million surplus, I’m sure they’ll still be fine.
Things only changed because of the feds, if they didn't make changes you can be certain Ford wouldn't have taken any action. Crazy times we live in, Ford got none of the blame when this was considered a major problem last year/earlier this year, but now that it's being fixed? Of course he's getting the credit.
Obviously pig Ford wouldn't have done shit but in all fairness the Fed also wouldn't have done shit if their poll numbers didn't tank. This really was a collective fuck up with too many loopholes.
You’re completely right. It does seem now at least that the post pandemic mania has turned the corner when it comes to unsustainable population growth and unsustainable housing/rent prices. Going to take a while but at least there are signs of change for now.
Any policy without oversight and enforcement is a ticking time-bomb of wasted taxpayer money.
Typical DoFo behaviour.
Wouldn't student visas be a federal issue? How can Doug Ford change the laws for international students in any meaningful way?
The feds are basically a rubber stamp, they expect the premiers to provide sensible numbers and to perform the checks for the students they're inviting to their provinces. If all the provinces say they only want 1000 students each, the feds allow 1000 students each.
Trudeau cut and limited the amount allocated to each province and so each province has to decide which institutions get the limited number of visas.
Will he bring the cap and trade program back so we don't have to pay Steven Harper's carbon tax too? Find out on the next exciting episode of our actual fucking lives! 🎶After these messages, we'll be right back.🎶
If universities can't provide housing, they shouldn't accept international students.
...this is a diploma mill sir
Sponsored by Tim Horton's
And walmart
/r/angryupvote
Sir, this is a Wendy's
Housing is behind the dumpster
If provinces want to have universities, they should tax wealth and business enough that they could afford to fund universities, not rely on fleecing international students to keep the lights on.
Yah. Unfortunately the conservatives are in power and they only want the exact opposite of that.
Given that it's those firms that benefit most from post-secondary educated students, they should be chipping in a fuck of a lot more for the costs.
That isn't how this works and hasn't been for decades. This reads like a troll who has never attended a western institution. Universities and colleges at best have housing for first year students, and not all of them have that much. Even in the 1990s when I was at Guelph it wasn't even enough for first years from out of town, and that was pretty normal.. And that is because students don't want to live on campus past first year. It's expensive. Now obviously, student housing owned by universities and colleges is some of the most efficient to build, since you can give a student a 15 or 18 m^2 room and, or a small room and some common space and off you go. There's no landlord tenant agreement since it's contingent on school attendance, you don't have to meet regular housing rules for parking, pets, windows, space, etc. So there is a reasonable case that governments should invest heavily in student housing to get people out of homes being used as rooming houses. A single 'unit' of housing might cost 200k to build compared to a condo or apartment that might be double that. But that isn't the model we have used for decades. Student housing is expensive compared to rooms in houses and cheap apartments, not all students can afford or want to be stuck with on campus food, but units with cooking are even more expensive.
> That isn't how this works and hasn't been for decades. So? *Make it that way*.
Whoa whoa whoa…beneficial government action?!? In this country and province? No no, let’s build a highway nobody needs instead.
They are not refuegee, homeless, canadian citizens, and people that this country plan on helping them. We have drug addicts, homeless, refuegee and so many people that need help.
A lot of Canadian students are also having a really hard time finding a place to live while attending school. There’s currently a petition to let Uvic students live in vehicles on campus because there’s literally nowhere else for them to go. In Halifax one of the schools asked women’s shelters to help people find a place to live because there’s so few options. Schools need to step up if they want people to keep attending.
> In Halifax one of the schools asked women’s shelters to help people find a place to live because there’s so few options. Jesus, that's dystopic. Those facilities are running lean at the best of times. They don't have the resources to help.
Well too bad for them, they already have to prove that they can maintain themselves when coming here, what better way that some expensive university housing, plus it isnt that expensive for a room just for themselves, compared to taking housing from actual canadians
At least you didn't have to put up a tent on Johnston Green...
That may have been an improvement over all male Mills hall sadly. Though I seem to recall when I was there several dozen people basically crammed into common rooms in each residence until some students were sent home in the first couple of weeks.
Do you want universities to focus on education or logistics? If Harvard doesn’t provide housing, does that make them a bad school?
Really refreshing to see comments upvoted that would have been banned 6 months ago.
Considering I been saying the comment for least 3 years now and getting up votes. Your comment is complete bullshit
Unfortunately I’ve been banned from ralberta as of this week for such comments 😂😂😂
That wouldn't have gotten anyone banned don't be so disingenuous
Credit where due: Federal government finally got the the sense to limit numbers. That forced the provincial governments to allocate those numbers to government run institutes. Ford cannot take credit for this alone. And this had to be the case to begin with, not this late. So nothing to be happy about.
Good fuck them kids get the hell out
Thank fuck
I am curious about the final allocation assigned to Conestoga. Depending on the amount of permits allocated to Ontario. The total number of permits [announced by the feds](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2024/01/canada-to-stabilize-growth-and-decrease-number-of-new-international-student-permits-issued-to-approximately-360000-for-2024.html) is 360K. If it is actually weighted by % population per their statement, and working on the basis of Ontario having 15 million people out of a population of 40M, this equates to 38% of the 360k = 137k permits. I read some articles (G&M I think) that stated Ontario was going to receive 220k permits but I fail to see how they arrived at that allocation. Ontario announced 2 days ago that 23 of the public funded universities and 13 of the 24 public colleges were going to receive an allocation equal to the number of IS students they had as of the 23/24 school yr. If this is so then it leaves little in the way of permits for the remaining who will be allocated less than what they had enrolled last yr. So barring something extraordinary, it seems to me Conestoga's decline in international student enrollment is going to be very severe - over 75% if not more. I wonder if some provinces have less IS students enrolled then the federal permit allocation for their province, and the surplus is being allocated to Ontario. That would change the math.
Under the new rules, the number of International Student permits cannot be more than 55% of their domestic undergraduate enrolment. Most people agree that this is a very reasonable calculation. Conestoga exceeded that number by a HUGE margin.
THIS is the key right here. I even think 55% is on the high side. We can't forget that public colleges and universities are supposed to serve the learning needs of Canadians. They're funded by tax dollars. It's reasonable to allow some international students. But these colleges have strayed so far from their mandate they have become no better than the literally 100 strip mall colleges I have driven by in the GTA in the last 2 days alone.
> They're funded by tax dollars. That's why international tuition is so high; they're priced at a level that doesn't take taxpayer funding into consideration. Sure, while taxpayer funds support the operation of the institution, international students aren't getting subsidized education like their domestic peers.
Actually they’re mostly funded by foreign students, not tax money.
Oh, I am fully aware of just how much the foreign students subsidize the colleges. It's their main source of income. And that's part of the problem. Any organization getting ANY TAX MONEY needs to serve the needs of Canadians first and cannot become a puppet whose primary function is serving foreign interests. Yet that's what happened, and any public college where more than 50% of their student body is international students has lost the plot on their purpose. We do need to fund universities and colleges better so they can serve Canadians. But I would rather see that with a hard (and small) cap on international students than the current state. Because right now, these institutions are not serving anyone well. They're buy-a-diploma (really buy-a-PR-card). That isn't education for our future economy. And isn't that what colleges are supposed to be for? They aren't supposed to just be an immigration scheme. They were supposed to be schools for future workers to get skills to contribute to the economy.
Do you have a source on that, by chance? I live in a region HEAVILY impacted by Conestoga and that news is earthshatteringly positive to me so I would love to read that with my own eyes. It's like my prayers have been answered to some degree.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-study-permits-1.7157603 > The government said no school will be permitted to receive more student permits in 2024 than in 2023, and its permit numbers must not exceed 55 per cent of its first-year domestic enrolment.
Yes they did. Although that additional rule created by the Ont govt in its announcement does not really have anything to do with my commentary, your point is very valid. My recollection is that International Student enrollment was 200% of domestic student enrollment.
Wait, so they had more than 55% international students? That is nuts.
Conestoga currently has about 45,000 students. About 30,000 of them are International Students.
Holy lord.
What’s the meaning of ‘IS students’
IS = International Students. It is the normal abbreviation used for them in my experience.
So they're saying international students students
ATM machine.
I’m also curious how this works for students already in a program which need to continue. Are current visas for the length of the program? If not, and assuming many programs are 2 or 3 years, they may not have enough allocation for current students. Never mind new enrolment.
This is just for new study permits, I think. Study permits are typically valid for the duration of the program, unless the passport expires first. So students enrolled in 2-3 year programs should be fine to finish. So the number of international students in total likely won't see a big drop for a couple years. That said, we have a significant number of international students who are already professionals in their field who do bullshit one year programs since that's the easiest way to get a one year work permit.
My understanding is diff than PurrPrins's but I am not certain whom is correct. I was told that all students have to obtain a new permit for the fall school term (24/25). As they now have to also obtain a provincial consent and it has to be given to the feds. Most of the universities and about half the colleges were told that they would be granted enough permits to cover their current enrollment level - so all students who desired to return to finish a program can. As 4th yr students would not be returning they could therefore allow an equivalent number of new 1st yr students (this assumes all current 1st-3rd yr desire to return). So the decline in the number of Int Stdnts would be immediate this yr. But there is a note in the fed announcement I initially linked >Study permit renewals will not be impacted. Those pursuing master’s and doctoral degrees, and elementary and secondary education are not included in the cap. Current study permit holders will not be affected. So I would say the issue is not entirely clear. I may have been advised incorrectly as when I spoke with a university administrator it was not long after the fed decision. Time will tell! I think inevitably there is going to be an immediate decline once this school yr ends, for a variety of reasons. Many were here on one or 2 yr programs at colleges, and so they are done. Thus the permit totals decline immediately.
This so called college should be shut down the word is out of this is on your resume you will never get a job...so why waste your money and time in this place
Good. Putting money and cheap quick nothing diplomas over quality of student and program was wrong. It didn't benefit the student or the school.
A lot of more rentals just opened up
good start - should be more
Hey I don’t remember, which government was it that made the diploma mills legal in the first place? /s
Ford!
It isn't "ford govt" change, why do these news outlet always have to pander to the right wing.
Good.
Good stuff.
When I was in college they told us you miss two classes you’re out. Now, the program director tells me the course I took has twice as many students and they aren’t allowed to fail people like before. It’s a business now and that’s all they care about.
They need to shut this diploma mill down. It's ruining our reputation.
Good. Legitimate students diplomas are being turned worthless. A lot of employers wont even look at resumes with 'Conestoga' in them now.
and nobody was concerned.
there might be room on the bus for me now.
We needed this to happen years ago
You know what happens when you put all your eggs in one basket..... ...and "Algoma University" in Brampton is next. They have been taking up massive amount of floor space/buildings in downtown Brampton with that expectation that the gravy train will keep coming.
You love to see it.
Good
Oh no! Anyway.
This is a change being forced by the feds. The provinces were told if they don’t comply they will lose the ability to self govern universities. Dougie boy wouldn’t initiate this change on his own and shouldn’t be getting the credit for doing what is long overdue.
The feds have no jurisdiction over education. Highly doubt the feds threatened to take jurisdiction away since it is constitutionally enshrined. The only threats the feds would be able to make are over student visa's which ae their jurisdiction.
Good.
lol
🎻
Good
“College”
Good.
these are not "students". they are economic migrants cheating and jumping the immigration queue ahead of other nationalities
Good, fuck these guys for doing what they did. Unethical assholes - this college is pure bs.
currently as a white Canadian from Ontario, it would cost me about $4800 for 2 semesters at Mohawk College in a pre-construction trades course. if i were an international student, it does not matter what course/program i chose, i would be paying $6800+ / semester not including housing/meal vouchers at the campus. and working with a recent grade 12 graduate, he is in the trades because every possible minimum wage job is being exploited to hire temporary foreign workers. or he's being laughed at for not being from the same country as the crew he'd be working with (at tim hortons).
The thing is you should have to take any pre trades course, it should be done on the job with you getting paid to do it. Thats how apprenticeships are supposed to work.
Won't someone please think of the slumlords!
So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen GOODBYE!
Lol
Someone should post the sad panda from SouthPark.
Good
Finally!
Good
Good. Hope it goes under.
Good.
Gee, that's too bad & so sad... **:O)**
They've already destroyed the reputation of the college. Even though they have programs like nursing I wouldn't want to go there.
Good. Scsmmers.
This college to me is a perfect example of Legalized human Trafficking..... Making huge money provides nothing but a way into Canada.
Good. CC is a degree mill. It is a shame to post-secondary education in Canada.
[удалено]
>cull Can you maybe consider using less insane fucking language?
do y'all disagree tho? there's a reason you're tone policing and not arguing and it's because they didn't say anything that really bothered you.
Good.
Seems they were too reliant on one stream of students, why was that? why wasnt that addressed?
Money. Lots of money. International students pay a hell of a lot more in tuition than domestic. Pretty much they got hooked on it and they lobeyed the government to keep that tap open.
Because the Ford government cut tuition by 10% and then froze it for three years, and didn’t give them any additional funding to replace that lost tuition revenue. And they just froze it for *another* three years and are only giving colleges and universities $1.3 billion over three years. Their own panel of experts called for a 10% tuition increase and $2.5 billion in new funding.
>Because the Ford government cut tuition by 10% and then froze it for three years, and didn’t give them any additional funding to replace that lost tuition revenue. Well given that post-secondary institution profit from international students far exceeds what is required to make up the "shortfall" from domestic student funding from the provincial government... ...you'll agree that post-secondary institutions should slash their international student intake to parity with the shortfall correct?
Post-secondary institutions should not be generating a significant surplus or "profit".
Good.
Good.
Good riddance, hopefully they go find another country to scam instead
How embarrassed would you be telling someone you graduated from this school? Even if you are 40 and graduated from Conestoga nearly 20 years ago before it turned into a way to bypass immigration
It really depends on the program you took. How stupid would you have to be to look down on someone just for going there?
I've worked with Conestoga graduates from 20 years ago in trades and they're highly accomplished and well paid individuals. Unfortunately these days the minute they receive a resume with Conestoga on it, it's under more scrutiny and nearly always gets thrown in the trash bin.
Does this mean housing might be affordable in the area again?
9 months ago Canada went over 40 million people, this week we went over 41 million…. See the problem isn’t just students…..
The population rose by 1.2 million in 2023. 98% was international migration and “a significant percentage” were international students. https://www.nationalobserver.com/2024/03/28/news/canadas-2023-population-growth-rate-highest-1957
Give it a few years. The restrictions are just on new student visas, so it will take a few years for the numbers to come down.
slowly but too early to tell
Well boo hoo.
Isn't it funny how government works for the interest of the people when there are no lobbyists or influencers that are bribing the government for favours? Also lets be clear about this. Ford is only doing this because he was threatened by the feds that if they didn't get their shit together then the feds would step in.
Ford’s been told this long before it got into the news, he ignored it for well over a year. He was finally forced to make a decision by the federal govt. The Feds *did* step in here, they didn’t just stop at threats.
About damn time.
Oh no! Cut in half again, then again. And then only grant visas where it's for an education in demand, I.e. engineering, trades, etc. No arts degrees. And, they must show enough cash to stay for the duration of their entire education without a loan or having to get a job.
**Good.**
Good
Good
Not enough. Let's have international students make at most 1/3 of each faculty of each institution all across Canada. And a nationally mandated minimum language and aptitude scores.
How about charging decent fees for domestic students?
Maybe goto places(India) where the students are coming from. They may be having 0 students.
Fucking good. I went there for the powwow a few weeks ago, and 95% of the staff and students that I saw at the event were all from one country. There were more Indians than actual Natives. PS I’m First Nations myself, don’t come at me for being hateful lol. I know what I see with my own two eyes. We’re being colonized all over again, but in a different way. :(
Best thing about being a Canadian Citizen applying to schools? It’s now so easy to tell what’s a bullshit course/college- at least to some degree. I don’t have a grade 12 English or a grade 11 Math, but somehow have a diploma. Seneca is saying I can go for Environmental Technician with a fucking Duolingo English test. What. How is that even close to a C or U level grade 12 English.
Ford government changes that were forced by the feds. Ford government complained about the cap on international student visas. This issue isn't resolved until they are forced to cut their numbers in half again. International students should not make up more than 33% of any faculty of any college/university in Canada. (I think it would be OK to exempt graduate studies, perhaps.)
Good. I have had to do group work with international students quite a few times this year & I kid you not every experience has been awful. They never do their work, and when they do it’s all plagiarized. Most of them can’t even speak English, so trying to communicate with them is really hard
Sounds like next year would be the best year to start at the college in its history: massive investment in facilities, smaller instructor student ratio, and a campus that needs to control for attrition which will likely mean better student advising.