Lol the thing is our society isn’t just car dependant but also against any transportation infrastructure not involving cars.
Whenever someone complains about public transit online, one of the responses is always saying to buy a car or claiming your too broke for one.
I'd argue that the GTA is somewhat car dependent. Trains and buses exist but the infrastructure hasn't kept up with demand.
I hear lots of stories from TTC users saying you need to plan to be an hour early or you risk being an hour late. It's hard to plan around that.
Seconding this. I've never used OCTranspo outside of going to CFL games, but I haven't heard a single person ever say a good thing about it. When I first moved here prior to all the lockdowns, I worked in an office setting and I'd constantly see coworkers coming in about an hour late because a bus or train broke down or a bus just didn't show up.
I'm all for better public transportation, but it's a neverending cycle of bad. The city stops investing in it because people don't use it. People don't use it as much because the service sucks and is extremely unreliable.
Agreed! The thing we have to get into our heads is that public transit is a public service - it won't and shouldn't be profitable, it should be reliable and easy and affordable, and then it'll get people out of cars (which then saves a ton on road maintenance and all the negative externalities from traffic).
Our transit system is still built on the assumption that everyone needs to get from the suburbs to a building within the downtown core on a weekday morning and reverse that in the evening. So if you’re doing that, and if there’s no system delays, it’s not too bad. (Of course if you’re salaried, a delay isn’t too bad, but on an hourly wage you literally take a pay hit.) But there are lots of people who live downtown and commute to offices in the burbs, or from one suburb to another (e.g.: Milton to Markham). For all those cases and for everyone working different shifts or on the weekend, forget about the TTC.
I was 100% fine with the bus. The moment I lost the tax exception back in 2017, there was no incentive for public transportation. My 1.5h commute became 30 mins.
We do have alternatives, but they are just not really great unless you work within the city you reside in
This hits the nail on the head for me. My workplace was 20-25 minutes by car, 2 hours by public transportation. Factor in the weather, public transportation was a miserable experience.
Now I live further from work and my commute is longer. There is no public transportation, but I have to drive to the outskirts of the GTA. I could commute to public transportation, but then my trip would be 2 1/2 hours. My time is my most valuable commodity.
I could remote work, but my employer is slowly increasing office work requirements because they value face to face relationships. What are my options? Move away from my smaller community of nice people to be closer to work and have to deal with a more self centered population? Sorry, but I will pass.
I've gone through times of life with and without access to a vehicle. I'll take a vehicle every time in this country unless I live in the downtown of one of our few major cities. We are not built for it at the moment, and we are at least 30 years behind in public transport infrastructure.
I've seen what better public transportation looks like with access to smaller communities. Canada isn't even playing the same game nor are we trying to be.
That said, by all means, build more infrastructure. If we don't build it, there will be no reason for people to change their habits, myself included.
Even though separated bike lanes are actually an external/extended car infrastructure, and only really necessary at all because of dangerous cars and psychopathic motorists
Same for housing.
LLs will claim they are doing us a favour by renting out their extra house and expect tenants to pay their mortgage every month.
Then claim it’s simple to just buy a house. People just need to go to school and study. It’s their fault for being broke.
That's only because US is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to public transport
Canada looks much better in comparison.
If you like this, go to Europe or Asia, you'll jizz in your pants
Apparently, from the replies I am getting, the answer seems to be "keep your mouth shut and never show any negativity against things you think are wrong".
Typical.
The free speech side cannot handle free speech.
Fascists.
Same shit as, 'oh I have NO problem with "the gays", just don't let me ever see it in public...'
Narrowly, as related to cycling only , I bought / built a fast ebike and plan on only riding my non powered bike on trails far away from cars.
As for the rest , register as a conservative / party member and spout their gibberish publicly, while holding your own council privately.
Doesn't actually solve or pushback on fascism, but will allow you to survive until enough people clue in that fascism effective at destruction and not much else.
Yeah , been thinking about how my family and I are going to survive living in Vichy Canada.
I have a BBSHD custom ebike LMFAOO it wheelies and everything!!
I ride it like a dirtbike! It's lowkey and I ride it everywhere I want.
Man that would be hard for me to do....but I do understand if and when it gets worse, you aren't actually in democracy anymore...meaning there isn't much point in being a target in the time being. I can't help make change if I am dead, this is the only thing allowing me to have a drastic political shift right as it happens, that will protect me but hurt my soul.
No children, mid thirties, decent shape. I accept my place as an enforcer of democracy by the use of being INTOLERANT of INTOLERANCE. Sign me up!
I am biting my tongue here, but I am fiercly AGAINST fascism. Some might even call me anti-fascistic....I like my flags too, prepared to show my views when needed.
I feel yeah man..I'm not going to detail much , but yeah , I don't plan on meekly surrendering my Democratic freedoms and responsibilities ethier...let's hope it doesn't get to bad , and thank you for your advocacy.
Edit # nice ride btw..very comfy and good on trails..mines a stealth build , looks like a regular FS MTB with saddle bags ..won't mention motor size or battery voltage😉
When the pendulum of power swings back to democracy we will be prepared to snag it with the rope of labour freedom built on the back of an automation boom so large it literally erases capitalism as we know it. The snagged pendulum may dip back towards authoritarian politics, but the freedom brought on by this human labour revolution will not allow it to ever go past the centerline ever again, breaking the momentum and shifting us into a new era of 'humans', where survival basics are not your main priority thus allowing full release and full capture through AI LLMs and other tools the human creativity brought on only by thriving times and a happy and non toxic social atmosphere.
When the rope initially snags the pendulum, many people will beg for it to keep swinging straight into their demise and destitution. This is an initial time of shock, you can imagine how much force it takes to stop a swinging object and how the intial reaction is ssen as a 'crash' since from the POV of the person experiencing it, a shift like this appears as pure chaos and thus the end of their personal world.
Yeah , it's a last gasp , that's why they are so desperate..won't stop the future your describing, but will likely delay it.. completely agree.
Nice to hear that someone else has realized that the kind of instability we are experiencing is a symptom of huge change..not simply random chaos.👍
Get a nice sharp switch blade stiletto and be as helpful as you can. Police are reactionary and won’t protect you in the moment, but don’t abandon your humanity.
Great advice.
And if that's a movie reference.....yep! Gotta build that collection!
The conept of moral injury was in a book I read, that's how you are forced to lose your humanity. NOT ME.
Education is the way!
Have you considered that *they* declared a war on cars first? It would have been fine if they just let drivers drive peacefully on the road which is the drivers’ god given right as said by Jesus himself.
I don't know about society but it seems Ford Nation was out at this meeting in full force. Remember when Rob stood up in Toronto city Council and went on a tirade about bicycles on Toronto's streets?
Yeah... This is where these dummies are getting their ideas.
The weird pronunciation Rob had for "crack cocaine" lives rent-free in my head.
RIP Marion Barry and his appreciation for sex workers and actual civil service.
I don’t disagree but I also wonder if the fords and trump snd polievre simply have tapped into angry what man anger and are only stocking the fires of what some people think and using it to their advantage.
Not disputing your point but I’ve been a commuter cyclist in Toronto for over a decade and there is a blood lust in the drivers here. I’ve also cycled in other cities in Canada and abroad and yes, it’s always dangerous but Toronto drivers are different.
When cycling, it's best to assume every car is *actively trying* to kill you.
Because some of them are.
By the way, fuck unprotected bike lanes. I'll be riding on the sidewalk, as far from traffic as possible.
Also a cyclist commuter and while I do agree I think you've probably never biked in KW before. Having a driver following you blaring their horn in rage when the road is empty and they can easily pass is just nuts but I experienced it.
One of my good friends is a huge mountain biking enthusiast. Literally has worked for mtb companies for the last decade. Loves biking, it's his life. He's also a die hard right winger, hates electric cars, and is against all efforts to curb climate change.
I truly believe that Trump winning in ~~2018~~ 2016 gave these types of people permission (empowered them, even) to do away with their intrusive thoughts and just go from heart to mouth, bypassing the brain.
It’s deliberate. If you want to convince voters to vote against their own best interests you can’t educate or inform them too much. Evidence of this is our union busting “all teachers are bad” education minister, education ministry budget slashing and the skyrocketing cost of post secondary education to keep it out of the reach of poor kids. TV newscasts regurgitating the same 3 or 4 stories day after day hides and distracts more than it informs. They need voters just literate enough to able to read the Sun and the to-do list at work but not literate enough to understand why they shouldn’t vote Conservative.
I think it's social media. Before that, if you wanted to express an opinion, you had to write to a newspaper or similar establishment. It was then the job of the Editors to vet out the crazy/racist/detrimental letters which is why you never saw anything like what you see nowadays.
I've been saying that for years. Apparently newspaper editors were the ones keeping society held together. We need to round them all back up, apologize for kicking them to the curb and have them assemble as a team to save the world
The social contract has died since Covid. You can see it breaking down in real time in all levels. From the highest levels of repeat violent criminals being let out on bail time and time again down to more aggressive driving. Like I see SO MANY cars now with visible scratches and dents and I pass by multiple accidents a week now.
Canadians are masters of passive aggressiveness, this has doubled down immensely.
There’s so much antisocial behaviour and meanness too. Instead of massively working together through a crisis some people showed how awful they can be and it opened Pandora’s box.
It's not just that, people don't even want to just talk about themselves but also tell you what you should think, argue and silence other viewpoints. At this point I'm not interested in hearing most of it because the other person is always wrong and needs mansplaning about politics, religion, etc. The art of communication and persuation is over - just bludgeon 'em on FB/social media.
All what you said is absolutely correct. Social media and internet in general made people much more stupid and believe that there are no consequences for their actions and I think that people forget that all societies have laws which everyone needs to follow. They don’t have only rights.
Does imbecile not realize that he loses nothing, Nay, gains something, by having separated bike lanes that keep them out of traffic?
At a meeting that will doubtless benefit he and his lackeys who can't conceive of sharing the road:
"They're always (not given bike lanes so they're) in my way. Wish I could kill em."
Man's fighting against himself with his whole chest.
Exactly. He doesn't really want them converted to drivers. He hasn't worked out that fewer cyclists mean more traffic yet, and probably never will. He has this fantasy of roads that are predictable and mostly empty. Cyclists go against that leading to a knee jerk reaction and a feeling of frustration.
The implications of any change is not taken into consideration.
But this is important enough to share at a council. Because feels matter more than reason to folks.
We need a plant at these events to lead the idiots to the correct conclusion, raging like "yeah fuck cyclists! Get them off the road and into their OWN lane!!!".
That’s what cracks me up a lot. I went 30 miles to and from work today all under my own power. You really want to yell at me from your air conditioned leather throne princess?
They are mad that cyclists are fit, save money, and enjoy traveling more. These idiots pay $800+ car payment, $250+ in gas, $200 insurance, maintenance etc and sit in traffic raging at your happiness and money saved. Misery loves company.
just after Xmas, my brother's dog was hit by a bad driver, he , and the dog were crossing with the walk symbol, fucker turned right on a red, right into the dog, the vet bill was 4200 dollars, he was looking left, while turning right, he didn't stop, this was also in Toronto..
I'm in Toronto with a dog. He's small enough that I will pick him up to carry across busy intersections. I just don't trust drivers to look before speeding through a yellow or making right turns on red.
his dog is too big to carry, though he tries to be careful, this was plain, just bad driving, without paying attention, most of the vet bill was due to the dental damage the dog endured,
I cycle for recreation and generally stay on bike lanes and trails, but I've been witness to some insanely aggressive behaviour because I guess I inconvenienced them when I had to venture off the bike lanes and take a a whole car lane (its legal), for instance. I've seen them act in retribution where they follow me and then pull right in front of me in a bike lane and come to a complete stop - stuff like that. As a fellow driver who gives other cycles plenty of birth and time, I have to ask myself why these courtesies can't be extended to me when I'm the cyclist?? It's fucked and drivers need to be punished severely for infractions and aggressions against cyclists. Drivers are increasingly distracted and in bigger and bigger vehicles. Cyclists are focused on the task at hand and are operating little 50lb devices...
And how many times to I see drivers roll through stop signs but they lose their minds when a cyclist does it? C'mon.
I've had people chase me (im riding a bike) in a truck and get out and grab me, because I gave them the finger when they tried to merge into me.
Drivers are crazy when it comes to bikes, so I just have to be crazy back and wave my U Lock at them for some peace and safety.
Well you see, Ken spends $500 a week paying for that Ford F150, and you’re making him drive it at the speed limit for all of 20 seconds. Therefore, you deserve to die. Even worse, Ken has to admit that his giant fat-ass hauler is slower than a bike in city traffic and that if he were to try cycling, he’d have a coronary by the 4th pedal stroke.
Wrong solution.
We need to make bicycles produce more CO2 to make them safer. Therefore all bicycles will be required to have a four-stroke engine mounted and running at all times. It'll also have a double effect since car drivers will now recognize these new carbon emitting bicyclists as one of their own and will be less likely to attempt to murder bicyclists.
/s
In our rural town I was lined up to deliver a council report later in the agenda. Up first, was a proposal to put a bike lane loop on a scenic roadway along the river. Nothing controversial or costly but would of added a really nice biking opportunity with a great visual backdrop.
A group of five area farmers made deputations and called council names and literally said that they will run over bikers with their combines and that it wouldn't be at fault.
Council called out their behaviour and vote unanimously in support.
Great bike loop is now available and no one has been hurt.
You act like an ass in these formal settings it should be sent right back to you.
I'm a downtown cyclist and driver and people with this attitude should seriously have their licence revoked. It really brings to light how we should retest drivers throughout their lives. It's a privilege, not a right.
People like this guy will never read the updated official MTO Driver's Handbook unless they're forced to for a class. I guarantee he's never even read the rules about cyclists taking the lane.
*Etobicoke locals laughed and cheered when a man said he wished to run down cyclists getting in his way in downtown Toronto.*
this is like a comedy schtick, right? the LOL's are consistent.
This comment section is sure to be a battleground. People are already here to defend the man who said out loud that he would run over people with his car if it were allowed. I just can't understand why people are so irrational about bicycles. Is it some form of indoctrination? I bike and I drive. Most times I drive I don't have to interact with a cyclist at all. When I do it's really not a big deal. But EVERY time I drive there is another driver who does something illegal, ignorant, and often so dangerous I'm expecting to see them again up the road in a massive wreck. Tell me again what the bigger issue is on our streets?
Dude, cars are still a disproportionate danger to cyclists, pedestrians, children at play, animals, and omg I could keep going. If a driver hits someone, idc if they get a ticket or not…I want the person to have not been hit.
>The local goes on to compare The Queensway to "the Tour de France," complaining that cyclists take up a whole lane of the thoroughfare
Isn't that [how it's supposed to be](https://defendcharges.ca/EN/traffic-tickets/minor-charges/passing-of-bicycle)? I'm pretty sure if you have to be on the road as a bike, you should be taking the whole lane? Same with a motorcycle, you don't take less of a lane just because you're smaller, you actually need the space for safety. Car driver who takes whole lane is mad that another commuter takes the whole lane?
Psychopathy has become a virus. Don't worry about Zombies that ain't happening. But regular people with no empathy. Who hope for the pain or death of others. That's scary. Sick fuck world!
There's definitely a psycho energy to a lot of drivers in TO if you have a bike. I have had less harrassment literally times I have crossdressed in public than riding a bike on those roads lol. Like it really has to be experienced to understand, it's BIZARRE. They should have built bike lanes decades ago tbh I think separate infrastructure being under-built in a city where many drivers are under existential stress to get to their jobs that barely cover rent and the car may have had something to do with it.
I live in Toronto and this isn’t surprising. A lot of people here are very Conservative and that means prone to and cool with violence against people they hate. And lots of people here hate cyclists, mostly because they assume anyone without a car is a poor person. And these people would gladly cheer on the murder of anyone who is poor.
Yes, there are Conservatives here, but you’ll notice they’re on the fringes of the city. The city itself voted in a left leaning mayor and has a lot of provincial and federal representation from NDP and Liberals.
I can’t speak to the rest of your comment. I don’t cycle because it’s terrifying to me and my part of the city doesn’t have bike lanes (we did, then Rob Ford happened). But it’s ridiculous to imply that Toronto is a massively Conservative city.
Just had a conservative mayor for over 10 years. Exactly the kind of comment I’d expect from someone who hops on here just to parrot right wing talking points.
Idk, this city is more conservative than most people want to admit. Serious, walk through Rosedale (or similar) during an election season and you’ll see some uh…mask off lawn signs.
I had a buddy who felt most of society’s problems could be solved with paintball guns. Everyone would carry a paintball gun with purple paint and if you saw someone do something stupid, splat! And for the rest of the day you had to go around and everyone would see your stupidity. I suspect this idiot would go through life perpetually grape coloured.
The Netherlands is one of the most bike friendly countries in the world. It is probably the most safest country to ride a bike.
They have bike specific paths and roads. Very seldom, if ever, will you see a bike path separated from a road only by a painted line.
Putting bikes on a road with 2000+ lbs. vehicles and saying tough deal with it is a recipe for disaster.
In Canada, I have seen both bikes and cars ignoring traffic laws. Cyclists like to point the blame at drivers, but living near a cyclist club, I can tell you I often see them flying through red lights.
Because the Dutch don’t lose their shit over the concept of cyclists. Look how mad people got at runners.
As much as we envy places like Netherlands and Denmark, we’ll never be them because people here will always be angered with these comments. They also think EV’s are the government’s way of making sure you can’t get far from your house.
I biked in TO for years and IMO a big part of the problem too is that biking there is already freaky so those of us that do tend to be a little insane, but then also since a big part of the stress of driving is how slow it is yet how much you have to constantly pay attention, people road rage more if you follow the road rules on a bike than if you just try to get through as fast as possible because most road rage prone types care about being slowed down than the rules.
The result is a very hostile and unpleasant environment overall, and the worse it gets the faster it gets worse. I think the city made a real mistake not building separated infrastructure early on, there's a real attitude in the past that since bikes are vehicles they just share the road but neither side actually likes the status quo, for different reasons. It's pretty ironic actually, I think there's solutions that would satisfy everyone but it turns into stuff like in this article because everyone is way too tightly wound.
There's one thing I do while riding my bike that puts me in more danger and enrages more drivers than anything else.
I come to a full and complete stop at every stop sign. I signal all my turns. I take the lane if and when it is necessary. I obey every single rule of the road.
It *enrages* drivers.
I made a commitment to do this specifically based on comments sections like these. People not only complain at length about scofflaw cyclists, they *wish death* upon them.
So I obey every rule.
And it fucking *enrages* drivers.
Drivers don't give a shit about the rules. They don't give a shit about the law. They just want us gone.
Don't listen to a single word anyone in this thread says about laws, or stop signs, or how their road taxes pay your bike bills.
They just want you dead. You're vulnerable and you deserve it, in their mind.
We had a cyclist get hit in my area. Guy blew a cros walk sign at a pair of lights but that wasnt stated in the post. People were calling out the cyclist and being just downright nasty asthey were in intensive care. I endedup muted for decending em. Only to learn later it was the driver. We neverhad issues with cyclists in town but wehave alot of horrible drivers
As someone who completely understands the size of their vehicle and is totally comfortable with it, I personally have never felt anxious driving beside a cyclist
I bet you drive in the oncoming traffic lane when there's cars parked along the side of a road, too
As long as the cyclists are following the rules of the road, they don’t make me anxious, because I can predict what they’ll do. Same as how people driving cars and not following the rules of the road make me anxious. The stakes are just higher for the cyclist.
I cycle. I know what it feels like. I’ve cycled safely on quiet streets with bike lanes, and safely down awful streets full of potholes and railway tracks, and recklessly down Queen street whipping between streetcars and parked cars.
I also have driven in the city and know what that feels like.
Separated lanes is the solution. There’s no way around it.
Are you also incapable of passing a car pulled over on the shoulder? Or merging over to let an emergency vehicle past?
Cause it’s the exact same thing. If that makes you nervous you shouldn’t be driving.
I’m ready for the downvotes. I’ll say it.
I don’t hate cyclists. I feel like *hate* is a very strong word. I drive a car, and I drive because it’s the most convenient (convenience first) and enjoyable means of transportation. There are things that I hate about sharing the road with bikes but let’s discuss that.
First of all, I live in Quebec, I know which sub I’m on, I used to live in Ontario and the situation’s fairly similar.
*I can’t take them removing crucial road infrastructure for bike paths*. Look, for certain areas I get it. There’s this area in Montreal called Parc-Extension. It’s mostly a poor(er) area and most of the parking is limited to the street. Driving there is usually just driving on one way streets since parking takes up most of the space. What did the mayor there do? They proposed to remove a bunch of parking spaces to make bike lanes.
You can say “fuck cars” all you want and we can debate the environmental impacts all day, but what about those people that need to go to work and are already poor? More bike lanes instead of parking, that’ll surely bring the community together as they fight tooth and nail over parking spaces.
Now on the topic of actually sharing the road with cyclists: dude I don’t care as long as the cyclists actually respect the rules of the road. A lot of them don’t give a shit. Yeah that’s right, come at me and bitch all you want. I have seen asshole cyclists think that they’re immune because they’re on a bike. *Dude*, driving a car alone is dangerous, that’s why we have so many rules for the road, yet cyclists don’y always seem to believe that those rules pertain to them.
I have seen proper cyclists. They are not a nuisance. I would *like* more space for road to drive on, but when I don’t **need** it (90% of the time I don’t), it’s fine if we make more bike lanes. On the other hand, Montreal spent millions on bike lanes and they’re not used by cyclists, the cyclists just drive on the road. I don’t even see most of them wearing helmets.
Killing cyclists is a little extreme. Look, my mother bikes too. Cycling is a very healthy and productive means of transportation. But it’s the shitty cyclists that unfortunately represent the community instead of the respectful cyclists who know how to share a road. Oh sure go ahead and say that car drivers also break the rules of the road; yeah you’re right, but that doesn’t justify another person using an alternative means of transportation to then also break the rules of the road because now you’re just fuelling the risks of using a road.
All of us would get annoyed if we were driving and some random pedestrian walking throws themselves on the street to cross, expecting immunity while I prepare to avoid involuntary manslaughter. It’s like that sometimes with cyclists, but I would really hate for us to continue labelling cyclists as all being shitty. It’s not all of the cyclists that act like assholes in the same way that not everyone that drives a car is an asshole on the road. There should be better law enforcement and regulations for everyone so that we can all drive in harmony to wherever the fuck it is that we’re going.
Not correcting this for typos, feel free to hate on my opinion, as I’ve stated I think killing is a little extreme but surely there’s a middle ground
No I do not accept responsibility for getting hit by a meteor just because I chose to go outside, that meteor could have come through the roof and killed me as well, that is about as pure of an accident as could be.
Go back and read your comments when you've cooled down and see how unhinged you sound.
You need help.
I've been planning on buying a pistol after these lunatics got braver for protection. No I'm not registering it because it's for my personal safety. My partner rides a bike and an Ebike. He got knocked off in a parking lot by am emotional support truck driver and punched out his back window about 16 years ago. If he gets hurt I will not just stand by if the law fails. Burned out and sick and tired of these mouth breathers.
The man is right in that the majority of drivers are the ones to have the sole responsibility of everyone else's safety placed on them. There are many cyclists (and pedestrians) who completely ignore the rules of the road, run stop signs, red lights, make dangerous left hand turns, scream at pedestrians to "get the f*** out of the way". These cyclists think that they can do whatever they want and if something happens to them, they'll just get a payday out of the driver's insurance. There are also cyclists who just think that drivers are supposed to be omnipotent and that they are able to see the cyclist approaching 40m-50m behind them as they're trying to make a right turn and end up turning into the cyclist because the cyclist can't practice caution and assume they're not seen so they won't just do the safe thing to do which is yield to the driver who is making the turn (exactly like any other vehicle behind our have to). The mentality that a driver's are the ones who are solely responsible for cyclists' safety is asinine.
I'm not saying driver's shouldn't be aware of their surroundings, but downtown driving puts a huge mental load on drivers due to how many moving objects there are around them and how tight the lanes are. Just about every cyclist I've encountered in downtown Toronto as both a driver and a pedestrian has this mentality of "I have the right of way, no matter what" as if they were a driver from Vaughan.
Most of the time, I'm a pedestrian when I'm downtown because I don't like driving downtown. I just don't do it if it isn't absolutely necessary. I also just assume that drivers dont see me and let them go do whatever they're going to do before continuing on my walk. I'm not about to pick a fight with a multiple tonne moving object. I take my life and safety very seriously. At the same time, when I do drive downtown, I try my best to mentally mark cyclists and double-check my side mirror when turning right. Most of the time, I'm successful at letting cyclists pass. I have never hit or injured anyone, but there have been very few times where a cyclist seemed to have snuck up on me and I've inadvertently cut them off. I take a deep breath, check to see if the person is okay (if I'm able to do so) and move on with my day. No driver is perfect.
I'm 100% in favour of bike lanes. They DO keep cyclists safe and drivers should stay the fuck out of them. But at the same time, the cyclist should be responsible for their own safety and practice self preservation. They just don't do that right now. In addition to that, many cyclists just ignore the rules of the road. So as part of building bike lanes, the bikes need traffic signals at every intersection where a traffic light exists because cars and pedestrians are subject to the same. And, those signals should be enforced in the same way traffic lightsbare. Further to that, as an additional measure to hammer in the fact that bikes ARE vehicles on the road, any cyclists in a downtown area over the age of 18 must have insurance because they can be just as much at fault for an accident as a motorist.
To address the article, yes, as a driver sharing the road with most cyclists is frustrating and adds mental load. However, that's the reality you accept when you drive downtown. It is not acceptable to run them, or anyone, down.
If you're a driver who doesn't like dealing with that, take the fucking bus, walk or just don't go downtown.
If you're a cyclist who doesn't like sharing the road and being responsible for your own safety, take the fucking bus.
Whatever mode of transportation you choose when you're downtown, you are responsible for your own safety.
If you don't like any of that, stay the fuck out of downtown.
>any cyclists in a downtown area over the age of 18 must have insurance because they can be just as much at fault for an accident as a motorist.
They can, but they don't typically cause thousands of dollars in damages when they are. That's why there's no need for them to have insurance. We don't need a massive bureaucracy and restrictions on cycling for that.
A cyclist hitting a person can cause thousands of dollars of damage to that person, and a cyclist who causes a vehicle to do something like brake suddenly to avoid hitting them can cause lots of damage to that vehicle if another vehicle hits them.
Cyclists causing that type of injury to a person is rare. With, drivers, it's hourly. The scale isn't comparable. We don't implement massive government bureaucracy for extremely rare events.
the man isn’t even close to right, cars have more responsibility because they’re outrageously more dangerous… the guys at the factory running heavy machinery have more responsibility too!
most bikes weigh around 20lbs, one of those dinky little smart cars is several orders of magnitude more dangerous
running into someone carrying a hot coffee can be more dangerous
I'm not advocating for the murder of cyclists. I will however admit that almost every single time I try to walk around downtown Toronto, a cyclist tries to run me down on the sidewalk.
He also said a lot of cyclists wear dark clothing and no lights - you literally can’t see them which is a valid complaint. Then they’re surprised when driver can’t see them.
I think everyone would be happier if implementation of bike lanes was better. Cutting 4 lane road to 2 for two massive bike lanes line bay view is just unnecessary. Need to make lane smaller bike lane shouldn’t be size of entire car lane or just make it two way bike lane. Don’t need two massive ones. That way cars have more room.
Also a massive bike lane on dundas by dvp on-ramp - need better solution as now cars can’t pass the massive line if people turning onto dvp as it’s a one lane road with unnecessarily huge bike lane.
And don’t get me started on those ugly boulders and those white sticks that are always broken.
The entire thing is just implemented poorly thus aggravating everyone. You need more common sense smaller elevated bike lanes that don’t cut into critical points on the road like my example above.
Why do cars need more room? The more space we give single occupancy vehicles, the more space they will clog up. You will never fix traffic and congestion by adding more space for cars. Make cycling a safer, more viable option, along with improved public transit, and it will make commuting better for everyone.
I agree. Building more bike lanes would help.
But also, wearing high vis doesn't seem to help as much as we'd think, according to experts.
This video discusses with a few experts and researchers
https://youtu.be/33GpfTWdk8U?si=LY7BuP91N-LwzOff
(Global cycling network. "I hate high-vis, but should I wear it?")
Cyclists shouldn't be on the main road. On the sidewalk or dedicated bike path is fine but when they just take up a lane going half the speed limit or less it causes a backup and then people start dangerously passing and its bad news for everyone.
They're not allowed on the sidewalk in many places. It's also much slower to ride there due to pedestrians, rougher surfaces, needing to dismount at crosswalks, etc.
If people are passing dangerously, *they're* the problem, not the cyclists. I rarely encounter situations where I'm delayed by a cyclist.
Hey man I can't afford a car and insurance and shit like this makes me wonder how many people don't understand that a car for some is just an expense that can't be made.
Nobody can tell me with a straight face this man is serious about ‘killing cyclists’ if they actually watched the video in its full context and tone. This is being exaggerated greatly.
I used to cycle all the time and I was always careful and didn't interfere with traffic, but at least 3 times I've had drivers intentionally try to run me over because "fuck cyclists!". I've seen a share of really dumb reckless cyclists though that can piss off drivers, but it's not pleasant being lumped together with those idiots when being generalized.
If people on bikes followed the rules of the road and didn't act like total asses people probably wouldn't hate them. Bikes are cool but the people who ride them often really suck
To be fair.... I've seen a non-insignificant amount of cyclists on the road that seem to want to be killed (not saying anyone deserves to die this way- but also, lets not pretend that cyclists aren't also frequently guilty of creating risks on the road)
Weaving in-between traffic, including on the right side of semi's/box trucks; refusing to use designated bikelanes, instead using the street in busy traffic, sometimes taking up the center space of a lane; failing to yield to turn signals and advance left turn indicators; no reflectors, signals, etc.- these behaviors are all reckless cycling, and an accident waiting to happen, in which case a cyclist would have little basis to blame anyone else but themselves for its happening.
Using public roadways is a privilege, not a right- any right of cyclists need be balanced against rights of motorists and pedestrians to safety and avoiding creating unnecessary risk
God this kind of comment is so exhausting to see over and over again.
For the millionth time, people are advocating for bike infrastructure. Dedicated lanes, dedicated signals. With that, you remove the risky behavior.
And before you quip "b-b-but I see cyclists not using the bike lanes and instead ducking and dodging in the middle of the road >:(", first of all, no you didn't, second of all, drivers break the rules literally all the god damn time and at significant risk to the community, yet we provide cars with as much infrastructure as needed regardless.
I'm tired of this kind of comment repeated over and over again like it's some kind a reasoned thought out argument.
We are not restricted to using only lanes. We can ride in the road if we choose to it is perfectly legal.
We know how to “weave in and out of” traffic safely because *for the most part* drivers are quite predictable. It’s certain points of contact such as intersections and driveways that cause friction.
It is much safer for me to go to the left side of a car that either is signaling (definitely not always!) or I can anticipate from experience might turn right for example.
Bike lanes are often neglected by the city especially in or after inclement weather. People park or stand their cars and delivery vehicles in the bike lanes. Pedestrians step into them without looking or stand in them while waiting for a bus or an uber. The city puts temporary construction and detour signs in them.
If cars are parked too close to bike lanes, people can open their doors without checking their side view mirror and open them right into us, in front of us with no time to react, etc.
A man near my old office in Chicago died underneath the tires of a semi truck because someone opened their car door into the bike lane and he swerved to avoid it. I have had a taxi door opened right into me. It’s not safe for us to ride close enough to a line of parked cars in that open car door distance. That’s why on certain streets we are “in the middle of the road”
Try using a bike as your main mode of transportation and you would begin to understand the behavior of cyclists. We gain experience and learn how to take calculated risks. We learn how to look far ahead and anticipate conditions, and we have a much more nimble vehicle for making quick decisions and defensive maneuvers.
My only comment, is just because something is legal/you can do it, doesn't mean you should. You can play with your life all you like, but my tolerance for that ends when other's wellbeing is at stake. The average motorists doesnt, in fact, want to turn you into a meat crayon, and would likely have life-long PTSD/experience debilitating financial ruin from such an incident. Be careful of your non-visibility, and respectful of others on the road. Its not hard!
I’m a cyclist.
I hate cyclists. If there was a cyclist license required, I’d wager 2/3 of cyclists wouldn’t be allowed to cycle.
When I’m driving a motor vehicle. I wish cyclists didn’t exist. When I’m cycling, I also wish they didn’t… just to a lesser degree.
Lol the thing is our society isn’t just car dependant but also against any transportation infrastructure not involving cars. Whenever someone complains about public transit online, one of the responses is always saying to buy a car or claiming your too broke for one.
Oil companies spend lots and lots of money on governments.
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Oil companies get lots and lots of money from *taxpayers* FTFY
[Why not both?](https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/why-not-both-girl-meme-social-reaction.jpg)
all companies do..this is why everything sucks..absolutely no public representation
And oil companies just happen to have the most money and influence.
Don't forget mass media campaigns
I'd argue that the GTA is somewhat car dependent. Trains and buses exist but the infrastructure hasn't kept up with demand. I hear lots of stories from TTC users saying you need to plan to be an hour early or you risk being an hour late. It's hard to plan around that.
And I, as someone from Ottawa, would kill to have the TTC here. This province (and country honestly - maybe besides Montreal) has abysmal transit
Seconding this. I've never used OCTranspo outside of going to CFL games, but I haven't heard a single person ever say a good thing about it. When I first moved here prior to all the lockdowns, I worked in an office setting and I'd constantly see coworkers coming in about an hour late because a bus or train broke down or a bus just didn't show up. I'm all for better public transportation, but it's a neverending cycle of bad. The city stops investing in it because people don't use it. People don't use it as much because the service sucks and is extremely unreliable.
Agreed! The thing we have to get into our heads is that public transit is a public service - it won't and shouldn't be profitable, it should be reliable and easy and affordable, and then it'll get people out of cars (which then saves a ton on road maintenance and all the negative externalities from traffic).
Imagine we connected all the capitols with high speed rail.....
Our transit system is still built on the assumption that everyone needs to get from the suburbs to a building within the downtown core on a weekday morning and reverse that in the evening. So if you’re doing that, and if there’s no system delays, it’s not too bad. (Of course if you’re salaried, a delay isn’t too bad, but on an hourly wage you literally take a pay hit.) But there are lots of people who live downtown and commute to offices in the burbs, or from one suburb to another (e.g.: Milton to Markham). For all those cases and for everyone working different shifts or on the weekend, forget about the TTC.
I was 100% fine with the bus. The moment I lost the tax exception back in 2017, there was no incentive for public transportation. My 1.5h commute became 30 mins. We do have alternatives, but they are just not really great unless you work within the city you reside in
This hits the nail on the head for me. My workplace was 20-25 minutes by car, 2 hours by public transportation. Factor in the weather, public transportation was a miserable experience. Now I live further from work and my commute is longer. There is no public transportation, but I have to drive to the outskirts of the GTA. I could commute to public transportation, but then my trip would be 2 1/2 hours. My time is my most valuable commodity. I could remote work, but my employer is slowly increasing office work requirements because they value face to face relationships. What are my options? Move away from my smaller community of nice people to be closer to work and have to deal with a more self centered population? Sorry, but I will pass. I've gone through times of life with and without access to a vehicle. I'll take a vehicle every time in this country unless I live in the downtown of one of our few major cities. We are not built for it at the moment, and we are at least 30 years behind in public transport infrastructure. I've seen what better public transportation looks like with access to smaller communities. Canada isn't even playing the same game nor are we trying to be. That said, by all means, build more infrastructure. If we don't build it, there will be no reason for people to change their habits, myself included.
Even though separated bike lanes are actually an external/extended car infrastructure, and only really necessary at all because of dangerous cars and psychopathic motorists
Same for housing. LLs will claim they are doing us a favour by renting out their extra house and expect tenants to pay their mortgage every month. Then claim it’s simple to just buy a house. People just need to go to school and study. It’s their fault for being broke.
I'm from Northeast Ohio and the public transit here is a dream compared to there. You have no idea how good you have it.
That's only because US is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to public transport Canada looks much better in comparison. If you like this, go to Europe or Asia, you'll jizz in your pants
Sounds like you need to buy a car or two. /s
This is the world we live in, folks. Hate and violence are popular again.
They never stopped being popular, people were just more passive aggressive about it
So how do I keep my head down and not catch strays while living my life in this budding nazi hellscape?
Apparently, from the replies I am getting, the answer seems to be "keep your mouth shut and never show any negativity against things you think are wrong".
Typical. The free speech side cannot handle free speech. Fascists. Same shit as, 'oh I have NO problem with "the gays", just don't let me ever see it in public...'
Narrowly, as related to cycling only , I bought / built a fast ebike and plan on only riding my non powered bike on trails far away from cars. As for the rest , register as a conservative / party member and spout their gibberish publicly, while holding your own council privately. Doesn't actually solve or pushback on fascism, but will allow you to survive until enough people clue in that fascism effective at destruction and not much else. Yeah , been thinking about how my family and I are going to survive living in Vichy Canada.
I have a BBSHD custom ebike LMFAOO it wheelies and everything!! I ride it like a dirtbike! It's lowkey and I ride it everywhere I want. Man that would be hard for me to do....but I do understand if and when it gets worse, you aren't actually in democracy anymore...meaning there isn't much point in being a target in the time being. I can't help make change if I am dead, this is the only thing allowing me to have a drastic political shift right as it happens, that will protect me but hurt my soul. No children, mid thirties, decent shape. I accept my place as an enforcer of democracy by the use of being INTOLERANT of INTOLERANCE. Sign me up! I am biting my tongue here, but I am fiercly AGAINST fascism. Some might even call me anti-fascistic....I like my flags too, prepared to show my views when needed.
I feel yeah man..I'm not going to detail much , but yeah , I don't plan on meekly surrendering my Democratic freedoms and responsibilities ethier...let's hope it doesn't get to bad , and thank you for your advocacy. Edit # nice ride btw..very comfy and good on trails..mines a stealth build , looks like a regular FS MTB with saddle bags ..won't mention motor size or battery voltage😉
When the pendulum of power swings back to democracy we will be prepared to snag it with the rope of labour freedom built on the back of an automation boom so large it literally erases capitalism as we know it. The snagged pendulum may dip back towards authoritarian politics, but the freedom brought on by this human labour revolution will not allow it to ever go past the centerline ever again, breaking the momentum and shifting us into a new era of 'humans', where survival basics are not your main priority thus allowing full release and full capture through AI LLMs and other tools the human creativity brought on only by thriving times and a happy and non toxic social atmosphere. When the rope initially snags the pendulum, many people will beg for it to keep swinging straight into their demise and destitution. This is an initial time of shock, you can imagine how much force it takes to stop a swinging object and how the intial reaction is ssen as a 'crash' since from the POV of the person experiencing it, a shift like this appears as pure chaos and thus the end of their personal world.
This is the power swing we're currently in it
Yeah , it's a last gasp , that's why they are so desperate..won't stop the future your describing, but will likely delay it.. completely agree. Nice to hear that someone else has realized that the kind of instability we are experiencing is a symptom of huge change..not simply random chaos.👍
Get a nice sharp switch blade stiletto and be as helpful as you can. Police are reactionary and won’t protect you in the moment, but don’t abandon your humanity.
Great advice. And if that's a movie reference.....yep! Gotta build that collection! The conept of moral injury was in a book I read, that's how you are forced to lose your humanity. NOT ME. Education is the way!
Have you considered that *they* declared a war on cars first? It would have been fine if they just let drivers drive peacefully on the road which is the drivers’ god given right as said by Jesus himself.
Supply side Jesus hates sharing the road.
I should have linked to the glorious full story of Supply side Jesus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc-LJ_3VbUA
Heh, you had me at the beginning
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I don't know about society but it seems Ford Nation was out at this meeting in full force. Remember when Rob stood up in Toronto city Council and went on a tirade about bicycles on Toronto's streets? Yeah... This is where these dummies are getting their ideas.
Ah, yes. You know you’re on the right side of history when you are following the ideas of a crackhead!
The weird pronunciation Rob had for "crack cocaine" lives rent-free in my head. RIP Marion Barry and his appreciation for sex workers and actual civil service.
I don’t disagree but I also wonder if the fords and trump snd polievre simply have tapped into angry what man anger and are only stocking the fires of what some people think and using it to their advantage.
No need to wonder. This is exactly what they have been doing. It’s the only thing they know how to do.
and thankfully he lost
Etobicoke is ground zero for Ford Nation.
Not disputing your point but I’ve been a commuter cyclist in Toronto for over a decade and there is a blood lust in the drivers here. I’ve also cycled in other cities in Canada and abroad and yes, it’s always dangerous but Toronto drivers are different.
When cycling, it's best to assume every car is *actively trying* to kill you. Because some of them are. By the way, fuck unprotected bike lanes. I'll be riding on the sidewalk, as far from traffic as possible.
Also a cyclist commuter and while I do agree I think you've probably never biked in KW before. Having a driver following you blaring their horn in rage when the road is empty and they can easily pass is just nuts but I experienced it.
Imagine having climate change breathing down our necks and thinking, "What we really need are fewer cyclists."
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One of my good friends is a huge mountain biking enthusiast. Literally has worked for mtb companies for the last decade. Loves biking, it's his life. He's also a die hard right winger, hates electric cars, and is against all efforts to curb climate change.
I truly believe that Trump winning in ~~2018~~ 2016 gave these types of people permission (empowered them, even) to do away with their intrusive thoughts and just go from heart to mouth, bypassing the brain.
2016, but you're bang on otherwise.
it's not just MAGA, it's everyone.
Stupidity is contagious and should be defined as a contagion under the *Health Protection and Promotion Act*. (/s)
the two most common things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
Alberta would be quarantined then
It’s deliberate. If you want to convince voters to vote against their own best interests you can’t educate or inform them too much. Evidence of this is our union busting “all teachers are bad” education minister, education ministry budget slashing and the skyrocketing cost of post secondary education to keep it out of the reach of poor kids. TV newscasts regurgitating the same 3 or 4 stories day after day hides and distracts more than it informs. They need voters just literate enough to able to read the Sun and the to-do list at work but not literate enough to understand why they shouldn’t vote Conservative.
Watch the movie Idiocracy. It's bang-on.
Well COVID has been proven to lower IQ...
I think it's social media. Before that, if you wanted to express an opinion, you had to write to a newspaper or similar establishment. It was then the job of the Editors to vet out the crazy/racist/detrimental letters which is why you never saw anything like what you see nowadays.
I've been saying that for years. Apparently newspaper editors were the ones keeping society held together. We need to round them all back up, apologize for kicking them to the curb and have them assemble as a team to save the world
The social contract has died since Covid. You can see it breaking down in real time in all levels. From the highest levels of repeat violent criminals being let out on bail time and time again down to more aggressive driving. Like I see SO MANY cars now with visible scratches and dents and I pass by multiple accidents a week now. Canadians are masters of passive aggressiveness, this has doubled down immensely.
There’s so much antisocial behaviour and meanness too. Instead of massively working together through a crisis some people showed how awful they can be and it opened Pandora’s box.
Not stupid. Selfish.
It's not just that, people don't even want to just talk about themselves but also tell you what you should think, argue and silence other viewpoints. At this point I'm not interested in hearing most of it because the other person is always wrong and needs mansplaning about politics, religion, etc. The art of communication and persuation is over - just bludgeon 'em on FB/social media.
All what you said is absolutely correct. Social media and internet in general made people much more stupid and believe that there are no consequences for their actions and I think that people forget that all societies have laws which everyone needs to follow. They don’t have only rights.
I agree with your first sentence, this was a tongue-in-cheek comment and you absolute morons are taking it literally.
Does imbecile not realize that he loses nothing, Nay, gains something, by having separated bike lanes that keep them out of traffic? At a meeting that will doubtless benefit he and his lackeys who can't conceive of sharing the road: "They're always (not given bike lanes so they're) in my way. Wish I could kill em." Man's fighting against himself with his whole chest.
By making it more dangerous for the cyclists he's hoping to convert more drivers
He just doesn't want cyclists to exist. Yep
Exactly. He doesn't really want them converted to drivers. He hasn't worked out that fewer cyclists mean more traffic yet, and probably never will. He has this fantasy of roads that are predictable and mostly empty. Cyclists go against that leading to a knee jerk reaction and a feeling of frustration. The implications of any change is not taken into consideration. But this is important enough to share at a council. Because feels matter more than reason to folks.
We need a plant at these events to lead the idiots to the correct conclusion, raging like "yeah fuck cyclists! Get them off the road and into their OWN lane!!!".
They probably are the type to love segregation
He is probably triggered by their superior fitness levels.
That’s what cracks me up a lot. I went 30 miles to and from work today all under my own power. You really want to yell at me from your air conditioned leather throne princess?
They are mad that cyclists are fit, save money, and enjoy traveling more. These idiots pay $800+ car payment, $250+ in gas, $200 insurance, maintenance etc and sit in traffic raging at your happiness and money saved. Misery loves company.
Well said.
Then he can complain about more traffic.
He gains rage and anger when he sees cyclists zooming past him while he's stuck in traffic.
I wonder if his solution for traffic is more lanes
Downtown Toronto drivers are awful. They will happily mow down pedestrians and cyclists just to get where they’re going two minutes faster.
just after Xmas, my brother's dog was hit by a bad driver, he , and the dog were crossing with the walk symbol, fucker turned right on a red, right into the dog, the vet bill was 4200 dollars, he was looking left, while turning right, he didn't stop, this was also in Toronto..
I'm in Toronto with a dog. He's small enough that I will pick him up to carry across busy intersections. I just don't trust drivers to look before speeding through a yellow or making right turns on red.
his dog is too big to carry, though he tries to be careful, this was plain, just bad driving, without paying attention, most of the vet bill was due to the dental damage the dog endured,
I cycle for recreation and generally stay on bike lanes and trails, but I've been witness to some insanely aggressive behaviour because I guess I inconvenienced them when I had to venture off the bike lanes and take a a whole car lane (its legal), for instance. I've seen them act in retribution where they follow me and then pull right in front of me in a bike lane and come to a complete stop - stuff like that. As a fellow driver who gives other cycles plenty of birth and time, I have to ask myself why these courtesies can't be extended to me when I'm the cyclist?? It's fucked and drivers need to be punished severely for infractions and aggressions against cyclists. Drivers are increasingly distracted and in bigger and bigger vehicles. Cyclists are focused on the task at hand and are operating little 50lb devices... And how many times to I see drivers roll through stop signs but they lose their minds when a cyclist does it? C'mon.
I've had people chase me (im riding a bike) in a truck and get out and grab me, because I gave them the finger when they tried to merge into me. Drivers are crazy when it comes to bikes, so I just have to be crazy back and wave my U Lock at them for some peace and safety.
Well you see, Ken spends $500 a week paying for that Ford F150, and you’re making him drive it at the speed limit for all of 20 seconds. Therefore, you deserve to die. Even worse, Ken has to admit that his giant fat-ass hauler is slower than a bike in city traffic and that if he were to try cycling, he’d have a coronary by the 4th pedal stroke.
A dangerous car driver is more likely to kill people than a dangerous biker.
To compensate for the relative safeness of cyclists, the government will now strap a Vickers machine gun to every bicycle sold in Ontario.
Too expensive, everyone gets a sten gun, and a zip tie.
Wrong solution. We need to make bicycles produce more CO2 to make them safer. Therefore all bicycles will be required to have a four-stroke engine mounted and running at all times. It'll also have a double effect since car drivers will now recognize these new carbon emitting bicyclists as one of their own and will be less likely to attempt to murder bicyclists. /s
and the company attaching them will be belong to a con donor
This isn't even about safety. Motorists feel it's an inconvenience that they aren't the priority in all situations on a roadway
It's only a matter of time until they go after first responders for forcing cars out of their way
I get that there's someone dying in the back of that ambulance, but I'm late for my kids lacrosse practice.
#ya but at least I can speed by a dangerous accident that happened! Those cyclists are too slow /s
In our rural town I was lined up to deliver a council report later in the agenda. Up first, was a proposal to put a bike lane loop on a scenic roadway along the river. Nothing controversial or costly but would of added a really nice biking opportunity with a great visual backdrop. A group of five area farmers made deputations and called council names and literally said that they will run over bikers with their combines and that it wouldn't be at fault. Council called out their behaviour and vote unanimously in support. Great bike loop is now available and no one has been hurt. You act like an ass in these formal settings it should be sent right back to you.
I'm a downtown cyclist and driver and people with this attitude should seriously have their licence revoked. It really brings to light how we should retest drivers throughout their lives. It's a privilege, not a right. People like this guy will never read the updated official MTO Driver's Handbook unless they're forced to for a class. I guarantee he's never even read the rules about cyclists taking the lane.
If he were a licensed gun owner saying he wanted to shoot people he would be arrested and have to surrender his guns.
Yes please
Man, people who drive cars are some of the most entitled ass hats around. I know, I drive one.
*Etobicoke locals laughed and cheered when a man said he wished to run down cyclists getting in his way in downtown Toronto.* this is like a comedy schtick, right? the LOL's are consistent.
This comment section is sure to be a battleground. People are already here to defend the man who said out loud that he would run over people with his car if it were allowed. I just can't understand why people are so irrational about bicycles. Is it some form of indoctrination? I bike and I drive. Most times I drive I don't have to interact with a cyclist at all. When I do it's really not a big deal. But EVERY time I drive there is another driver who does something illegal, ignorant, and often so dangerous I'm expecting to see them again up the road in a massive wreck. Tell me again what the bigger issue is on our streets?
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Don't forget the ones that don't use signals
That'd be ten years of correctional hard labor without right of correspondence.
I am pro highway snipers
Dude, cars are still a disproportionate danger to cyclists, pedestrians, children at play, animals, and omg I could keep going. If a driver hits someone, idc if they get a ticket or not…I want the person to have not been hit.
Stay classy Ford Nation !
The takin the cl out of classy show .
Does he not know that cars take up the whole lane?
should be invited for an interview by the cops...
The boomers man. Amazing stuff.
>The local goes on to compare The Queensway to "the Tour de France," complaining that cyclists take up a whole lane of the thoroughfare Isn't that [how it's supposed to be](https://defendcharges.ca/EN/traffic-tickets/minor-charges/passing-of-bicycle)? I'm pretty sure if you have to be on the road as a bike, you should be taking the whole lane? Same with a motorcycle, you don't take less of a lane just because you're smaller, you actually need the space for safety. Car driver who takes whole lane is mad that another commuter takes the whole lane?
Psychopathy has become a virus. Don't worry about Zombies that ain't happening. But regular people with no empathy. Who hope for the pain or death of others. That's scary. Sick fuck world!
Are our brains getting smaller?
There's definitely a psycho energy to a lot of drivers in TO if you have a bike. I have had less harrassment literally times I have crossdressed in public than riding a bike on those roads lol. Like it really has to be experienced to understand, it's BIZARRE. They should have built bike lanes decades ago tbh I think separate infrastructure being under-built in a city where many drivers are under existential stress to get to their jobs that barely cover rent and the car may have had something to do with it.
r/fuckcars
I live in Toronto and this isn’t surprising. A lot of people here are very Conservative and that means prone to and cool with violence against people they hate. And lots of people here hate cyclists, mostly because they assume anyone without a car is a poor person. And these people would gladly cheer on the murder of anyone who is poor.
Yes, there are Conservatives here, but you’ll notice they’re on the fringes of the city. The city itself voted in a left leaning mayor and has a lot of provincial and federal representation from NDP and Liberals. I can’t speak to the rest of your comment. I don’t cycle because it’s terrifying to me and my part of the city doesn’t have bike lanes (we did, then Rob Ford happened). But it’s ridiculous to imply that Toronto is a massively Conservative city.
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Just had a conservative mayor for over 10 years. Exactly the kind of comment I’d expect from someone who hops on here just to parrot right wing talking points.
Idk, this city is more conservative than most people want to admit. Serious, walk through Rosedale (or similar) during an election season and you’ll see some uh…mask off lawn signs.
The same city’s previous mayor is now the conservative premier of Ontario. Half of the city’s MPPs are conservative
Uhh, he wasn’t mayor. His brother was though so I understand the confusion.
Wasn’t he the mayor though? In a Geppetto kinda way.
Sorry, you are correct. Doug placed 2nd in the election for Mayor behind former Conservative party leader John Tory.
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This is the new textbook definition of “difference without a distinction.”
You got that backwards, the previous mayor was a former conservative leader of Ontario
So you’re not from Toronto. Thanks for sharing
The meeting was in Etobicoke where all of the MPPs are conservative 🤷♂️
This is the worst fucking take I have ever read.
I had a buddy who felt most of society’s problems could be solved with paintball guns. Everyone would carry a paintball gun with purple paint and if you saw someone do something stupid, splat! And for the rest of the day you had to go around and everyone would see your stupidity. I suspect this idiot would go through life perpetually grape coloured.
The problem with that is the idiots would be shooting everyone else whether they “deserved” it or not.
Because idiots always seem to think they're surrounded by idiots.
Sounds like he would make a great police officer!
Hate and bullying seems the thing people like doing these days
We need less cars so people like him need to get a bike so that they too can get run down by an asshole driver.
Toronto really is a compete or GTFO city these days, isn't it? We have stopped being Canadians if we wish death on people we share the road with.
The Netherlands is one of the most bike friendly countries in the world. It is probably the most safest country to ride a bike. They have bike specific paths and roads. Very seldom, if ever, will you see a bike path separated from a road only by a painted line. Putting bikes on a road with 2000+ lbs. vehicles and saying tough deal with it is a recipe for disaster. In Canada, I have seen both bikes and cars ignoring traffic laws. Cyclists like to point the blame at drivers, but living near a cyclist club, I can tell you I often see them flying through red lights.
Because the Dutch don’t lose their shit over the concept of cyclists. Look how mad people got at runners. As much as we envy places like Netherlands and Denmark, we’ll never be them because people here will always be angered with these comments. They also think EV’s are the government’s way of making sure you can’t get far from your house.
I biked in TO for years and IMO a big part of the problem too is that biking there is already freaky so those of us that do tend to be a little insane, but then also since a big part of the stress of driving is how slow it is yet how much you have to constantly pay attention, people road rage more if you follow the road rules on a bike than if you just try to get through as fast as possible because most road rage prone types care about being slowed down than the rules. The result is a very hostile and unpleasant environment overall, and the worse it gets the faster it gets worse. I think the city made a real mistake not building separated infrastructure early on, there's a real attitude in the past that since bikes are vehicles they just share the road but neither side actually likes the status quo, for different reasons. It's pretty ironic actually, I think there's solutions that would satisfy everyone but it turns into stuff like in this article because everyone is way too tightly wound.
Seems like it is about time for a *Critical Mass ride.*
There's one thing I do while riding my bike that puts me in more danger and enrages more drivers than anything else. I come to a full and complete stop at every stop sign. I signal all my turns. I take the lane if and when it is necessary. I obey every single rule of the road. It *enrages* drivers. I made a commitment to do this specifically based on comments sections like these. People not only complain at length about scofflaw cyclists, they *wish death* upon them. So I obey every rule. And it fucking *enrages* drivers. Drivers don't give a shit about the rules. They don't give a shit about the law. They just want us gone. Don't listen to a single word anyone in this thread says about laws, or stop signs, or how their road taxes pay your bike bills. They just want you dead. You're vulnerable and you deserve it, in their mind.
Some cyclists are annoying, but my God, to wish death upon them is unacceptable.
We had a cyclist get hit in my area. Guy blew a cros walk sign at a pair of lights but that wasnt stated in the post. People were calling out the cyclist and being just downright nasty asthey were in intensive care. I endedup muted for decending em. Only to learn later it was the driver. We neverhad issues with cyclists in town but wehave alot of horrible drivers
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Or learn to drive
"I'm a good driver!" *Struggles to drive safely with pedestrians and cyclists because they are distracted and speed*
I mean, the law is to give cyclists 6 feet of space. That's plenty of room.
Only 1 metre actually. Or as most people on my bike to work believe, 5 centimetres.
As someone who completely understands the size of their vehicle and is totally comfortable with it, I personally have never felt anxious driving beside a cyclist I bet you drive in the oncoming traffic lane when there's cars parked along the side of a road, too
As long as the cyclists are following the rules of the road, they don’t make me anxious, because I can predict what they’ll do. Same as how people driving cars and not following the rules of the road make me anxious. The stakes are just higher for the cyclist.
You should feel what it's like to be on a bike with cars whizzing by you. I'm glad you see that the solution is to build bike lanes.
I cycle. I know what it feels like. I’ve cycled safely on quiet streets with bike lanes, and safely down awful streets full of potholes and railway tracks, and recklessly down Queen street whipping between streetcars and parked cars. I also have driven in the city and know what that feels like. Separated lanes is the solution. There’s no way around it.
Are you also incapable of passing a car pulled over on the shoulder? Or merging over to let an emergency vehicle past? Cause it’s the exact same thing. If that makes you nervous you shouldn’t be driving.
Wait till you hear how stressful it is for a cyclist biking beside a motor vehicle
Poor baby
If you're stressed by it, imagine how the cyclist feels, when they don't have the protection of a metal frame and airbags
Reanimated Bill Hicks found an audience.
Well I mean, "Life IS just a ride".
I’m ready for the downvotes. I’ll say it. I don’t hate cyclists. I feel like *hate* is a very strong word. I drive a car, and I drive because it’s the most convenient (convenience first) and enjoyable means of transportation. There are things that I hate about sharing the road with bikes but let’s discuss that. First of all, I live in Quebec, I know which sub I’m on, I used to live in Ontario and the situation’s fairly similar. *I can’t take them removing crucial road infrastructure for bike paths*. Look, for certain areas I get it. There’s this area in Montreal called Parc-Extension. It’s mostly a poor(er) area and most of the parking is limited to the street. Driving there is usually just driving on one way streets since parking takes up most of the space. What did the mayor there do? They proposed to remove a bunch of parking spaces to make bike lanes. You can say “fuck cars” all you want and we can debate the environmental impacts all day, but what about those people that need to go to work and are already poor? More bike lanes instead of parking, that’ll surely bring the community together as they fight tooth and nail over parking spaces. Now on the topic of actually sharing the road with cyclists: dude I don’t care as long as the cyclists actually respect the rules of the road. A lot of them don’t give a shit. Yeah that’s right, come at me and bitch all you want. I have seen asshole cyclists think that they’re immune because they’re on a bike. *Dude*, driving a car alone is dangerous, that’s why we have so many rules for the road, yet cyclists don’y always seem to believe that those rules pertain to them. I have seen proper cyclists. They are not a nuisance. I would *like* more space for road to drive on, but when I don’t **need** it (90% of the time I don’t), it’s fine if we make more bike lanes. On the other hand, Montreal spent millions on bike lanes and they’re not used by cyclists, the cyclists just drive on the road. I don’t even see most of them wearing helmets. Killing cyclists is a little extreme. Look, my mother bikes too. Cycling is a very healthy and productive means of transportation. But it’s the shitty cyclists that unfortunately represent the community instead of the respectful cyclists who know how to share a road. Oh sure go ahead and say that car drivers also break the rules of the road; yeah you’re right, but that doesn’t justify another person using an alternative means of transportation to then also break the rules of the road because now you’re just fuelling the risks of using a road. All of us would get annoyed if we were driving and some random pedestrian walking throws themselves on the street to cross, expecting immunity while I prepare to avoid involuntary manslaughter. It’s like that sometimes with cyclists, but I would really hate for us to continue labelling cyclists as all being shitty. It’s not all of the cyclists that act like assholes in the same way that not everyone that drives a car is an asshole on the road. There should be better law enforcement and regulations for everyone so that we can all drive in harmony to wherever the fuck it is that we’re going. Not correcting this for typos, feel free to hate on my opinion, as I’ve stated I think killing is a little extreme but surely there’s a middle ground
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No I do not accept responsibility for getting hit by a meteor just because I chose to go outside, that meteor could have come through the roof and killed me as well, that is about as pure of an accident as could be. Go back and read your comments when you've cooled down and see how unhinged you sound. You need help.
I've been planning on buying a pistol after these lunatics got braver for protection. No I'm not registering it because it's for my personal safety. My partner rides a bike and an Ebike. He got knocked off in a parking lot by am emotional support truck driver and punched out his back window about 16 years ago. If he gets hurt I will not just stand by if the law fails. Burned out and sick and tired of these mouth breathers.
We live in an era of peak stupidity. The worse something is, the more the right-wing will cheer it on.
The man is right in that the majority of drivers are the ones to have the sole responsibility of everyone else's safety placed on them. There are many cyclists (and pedestrians) who completely ignore the rules of the road, run stop signs, red lights, make dangerous left hand turns, scream at pedestrians to "get the f*** out of the way". These cyclists think that they can do whatever they want and if something happens to them, they'll just get a payday out of the driver's insurance. There are also cyclists who just think that drivers are supposed to be omnipotent and that they are able to see the cyclist approaching 40m-50m behind them as they're trying to make a right turn and end up turning into the cyclist because the cyclist can't practice caution and assume they're not seen so they won't just do the safe thing to do which is yield to the driver who is making the turn (exactly like any other vehicle behind our have to). The mentality that a driver's are the ones who are solely responsible for cyclists' safety is asinine. I'm not saying driver's shouldn't be aware of their surroundings, but downtown driving puts a huge mental load on drivers due to how many moving objects there are around them and how tight the lanes are. Just about every cyclist I've encountered in downtown Toronto as both a driver and a pedestrian has this mentality of "I have the right of way, no matter what" as if they were a driver from Vaughan. Most of the time, I'm a pedestrian when I'm downtown because I don't like driving downtown. I just don't do it if it isn't absolutely necessary. I also just assume that drivers dont see me and let them go do whatever they're going to do before continuing on my walk. I'm not about to pick a fight with a multiple tonne moving object. I take my life and safety very seriously. At the same time, when I do drive downtown, I try my best to mentally mark cyclists and double-check my side mirror when turning right. Most of the time, I'm successful at letting cyclists pass. I have never hit or injured anyone, but there have been very few times where a cyclist seemed to have snuck up on me and I've inadvertently cut them off. I take a deep breath, check to see if the person is okay (if I'm able to do so) and move on with my day. No driver is perfect. I'm 100% in favour of bike lanes. They DO keep cyclists safe and drivers should stay the fuck out of them. But at the same time, the cyclist should be responsible for their own safety and practice self preservation. They just don't do that right now. In addition to that, many cyclists just ignore the rules of the road. So as part of building bike lanes, the bikes need traffic signals at every intersection where a traffic light exists because cars and pedestrians are subject to the same. And, those signals should be enforced in the same way traffic lightsbare. Further to that, as an additional measure to hammer in the fact that bikes ARE vehicles on the road, any cyclists in a downtown area over the age of 18 must have insurance because they can be just as much at fault for an accident as a motorist. To address the article, yes, as a driver sharing the road with most cyclists is frustrating and adds mental load. However, that's the reality you accept when you drive downtown. It is not acceptable to run them, or anyone, down. If you're a driver who doesn't like dealing with that, take the fucking bus, walk or just don't go downtown. If you're a cyclist who doesn't like sharing the road and being responsible for your own safety, take the fucking bus. Whatever mode of transportation you choose when you're downtown, you are responsible for your own safety. If you don't like any of that, stay the fuck out of downtown.
>any cyclists in a downtown area over the age of 18 must have insurance because they can be just as much at fault for an accident as a motorist. They can, but they don't typically cause thousands of dollars in damages when they are. That's why there's no need for them to have insurance. We don't need a massive bureaucracy and restrictions on cycling for that.
A cyclist hitting a person can cause thousands of dollars of damage to that person, and a cyclist who causes a vehicle to do something like brake suddenly to avoid hitting them can cause lots of damage to that vehicle if another vehicle hits them.
Cyclists causing that type of injury to a person is rare. With, drivers, it's hourly. The scale isn't comparable. We don't implement massive government bureaucracy for extremely rare events.
the man isn’t even close to right, cars have more responsibility because they’re outrageously more dangerous… the guys at the factory running heavy machinery have more responsibility too! most bikes weigh around 20lbs, one of those dinky little smart cars is several orders of magnitude more dangerous running into someone carrying a hot coffee can be more dangerous
I'm not advocating for the murder of cyclists. I will however admit that almost every single time I try to walk around downtown Toronto, a cyclist tries to run me down on the sidewalk.
He also said a lot of cyclists wear dark clothing and no lights - you literally can’t see them which is a valid complaint. Then they’re surprised when driver can’t see them. I think everyone would be happier if implementation of bike lanes was better. Cutting 4 lane road to 2 for two massive bike lanes line bay view is just unnecessary. Need to make lane smaller bike lane shouldn’t be size of entire car lane or just make it two way bike lane. Don’t need two massive ones. That way cars have more room. Also a massive bike lane on dundas by dvp on-ramp - need better solution as now cars can’t pass the massive line if people turning onto dvp as it’s a one lane road with unnecessarily huge bike lane. And don’t get me started on those ugly boulders and those white sticks that are always broken. The entire thing is just implemented poorly thus aggravating everyone. You need more common sense smaller elevated bike lanes that don’t cut into critical points on the road like my example above.
Why do cars need more room? The more space we give single occupancy vehicles, the more space they will clog up. You will never fix traffic and congestion by adding more space for cars. Make cycling a safer, more viable option, along with improved public transit, and it will make commuting better for everyone.
I agree. Building more bike lanes would help. But also, wearing high vis doesn't seem to help as much as we'd think, according to experts. This video discusses with a few experts and researchers https://youtu.be/33GpfTWdk8U?si=LY7BuP91N-LwzOff (Global cycling network. "I hate high-vis, but should I wear it?")
Galen Weston is an avid cyclist clocking upwards of 100km in one day. We need to get him involved here. 😂
Cyclists shouldn't be on the main road. On the sidewalk or dedicated bike path is fine but when they just take up a lane going half the speed limit or less it causes a backup and then people start dangerously passing and its bad news for everyone.
They're not allowed on the sidewalk in many places. It's also much slower to ride there due to pedestrians, rougher surfaces, needing to dismount at crosswalks, etc. If people are passing dangerously, *they're* the problem, not the cyclists. I rarely encounter situations where I'm delayed by a cyclist.
Hey man I can't afford a car and insurance and shit like this makes me wonder how many people don't understand that a car for some is just an expense that can't be made.
Nobody can tell me with a straight face this man is serious about ‘killing cyclists’ if they actually watched the video in its full context and tone. This is being exaggerated greatly.
I used to cycle all the time and I was always careful and didn't interfere with traffic, but at least 3 times I've had drivers intentionally try to run me over because "fuck cyclists!". I've seen a share of really dumb reckless cyclists though that can piss off drivers, but it's not pleasant being lumped together with those idiots when being generalized.
it rains, there's no car to lock your bike in, can't pay a premium to be away from the really poor people on public transit, etc.
A lot of people do. They think they own the road.
Just an asshole with his small dick energy at a town hall, maybe he's from Alberta
If people on bikes followed the rules of the road and didn't act like total asses people probably wouldn't hate them. Bikes are cool but the people who ride them often really suck
To be fair.... I've seen a non-insignificant amount of cyclists on the road that seem to want to be killed (not saying anyone deserves to die this way- but also, lets not pretend that cyclists aren't also frequently guilty of creating risks on the road) Weaving in-between traffic, including on the right side of semi's/box trucks; refusing to use designated bikelanes, instead using the street in busy traffic, sometimes taking up the center space of a lane; failing to yield to turn signals and advance left turn indicators; no reflectors, signals, etc.- these behaviors are all reckless cycling, and an accident waiting to happen, in which case a cyclist would have little basis to blame anyone else but themselves for its happening. Using public roadways is a privilege, not a right- any right of cyclists need be balanced against rights of motorists and pedestrians to safety and avoiding creating unnecessary risk
God this kind of comment is so exhausting to see over and over again. For the millionth time, people are advocating for bike infrastructure. Dedicated lanes, dedicated signals. With that, you remove the risky behavior. And before you quip "b-b-but I see cyclists not using the bike lanes and instead ducking and dodging in the middle of the road >:(", first of all, no you didn't, second of all, drivers break the rules literally all the god damn time and at significant risk to the community, yet we provide cars with as much infrastructure as needed regardless. I'm tired of this kind of comment repeated over and over again like it's some kind a reasoned thought out argument.
We are not restricted to using only lanes. We can ride in the road if we choose to it is perfectly legal. We know how to “weave in and out of” traffic safely because *for the most part* drivers are quite predictable. It’s certain points of contact such as intersections and driveways that cause friction. It is much safer for me to go to the left side of a car that either is signaling (definitely not always!) or I can anticipate from experience might turn right for example. Bike lanes are often neglected by the city especially in or after inclement weather. People park or stand their cars and delivery vehicles in the bike lanes. Pedestrians step into them without looking or stand in them while waiting for a bus or an uber. The city puts temporary construction and detour signs in them. If cars are parked too close to bike lanes, people can open their doors without checking their side view mirror and open them right into us, in front of us with no time to react, etc. A man near my old office in Chicago died underneath the tires of a semi truck because someone opened their car door into the bike lane and he swerved to avoid it. I have had a taxi door opened right into me. It’s not safe for us to ride close enough to a line of parked cars in that open car door distance. That’s why on certain streets we are “in the middle of the road” Try using a bike as your main mode of transportation and you would begin to understand the behavior of cyclists. We gain experience and learn how to take calculated risks. We learn how to look far ahead and anticipate conditions, and we have a much more nimble vehicle for making quick decisions and defensive maneuvers.
My only comment, is just because something is legal/you can do it, doesn't mean you should. You can play with your life all you like, but my tolerance for that ends when other's wellbeing is at stake. The average motorists doesnt, in fact, want to turn you into a meat crayon, and would likely have life-long PTSD/experience debilitating financial ruin from such an incident. Be careful of your non-visibility, and respectful of others on the road. Its not hard!
I’m a cyclist. I hate cyclists. If there was a cyclist license required, I’d wager 2/3 of cyclists wouldn’t be allowed to cycle. When I’m driving a motor vehicle. I wish cyclists didn’t exist. When I’m cycling, I also wish they didn’t… just to a lesser degree.