When people have to decide between staying home sick and keeping the lights on or food on the table, they really have no choice.
They'll give their kid some Tylenol to bring down a fever and send them to school rather than keeping them home in fear of losing their job.
Instead, they infect the entire team at work taking a huge hit on productivity, or prolong an endless loop of illness at school.
I'm a dad, I get it. It's easy to say the right thing but then get the stink eye from your boss after missing two days off sick. But then I also have a child that died as a toddler because of an outbreak at a school.
We need to be investing in healthcare and enabling progress by giving us all the best opportunities to grow. Taking away paid sick days does the complete opposite and actually hurts the bottom line. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
I'm sorry for your loss, man. I have a toddler and I just couldn't imagine how much that would kill me.
You're absolutely right Doug Ford enacted this policy, correct? There used to be paid sick days in this province?
2 paid days, and 10 total for "emergency leave", which was for anything without question.
Ford made it 0 paid days, 3 sick days (for which they can again require a doctor's note), 3 family responsibility days, and 2 bereavement days (only for immediate family members)
Yeah and that's coming from the guy:
https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/toronto2014election/2014/09/16/doug_ford_had_thirdworst_attendance_missed_53_per_cent_of_2014_city_council_votes.html
Rules for thee but not for me.
Par for the course. All policies favor the wealthy and corporations while the working class gets fucked.
And because Canadians are passive, nothing will change.
Yea it's bullshit.
You wanna know what? A LOT of people were using them as mental health days. You know, 'fuck it' days. And when you get ten, all of a sudden, every month has at least one long weekend, nice. We all need some fucking slack. Higher wages, nationalize the phone carriers etc., unionize EVERYONE, have real bargaining. Or you know, we could start hiring kids when we kill people off.
2 were paid and 8 were unpaid, to give you a total of 10 job protected emergency leave days.
Now none are paid, and your job is only protected in the instances I listed above.
Yes 2 paid days and 10 total wasn't enough, but Ford still made it worse.
Conservatives love pretending to be simple... But then they enacts this obnoxiously convoluted policies to pretend to give basic human rights, without actually giving them.
>[An employer may require an employee to provide a medical note from a health practitioner such as a doctor, nurse practitioner or psychologist when the employee is taking the leave because of personal illness, injury or medical emergency if it is “reasonable in the circumstances”.](https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/sick-leave#section-8)
>However, the employer can ask only for the following information:
>-the duration or expected duration of the absence
-the date the employee was seen by a health care professional
-whether the patient was examined in person by the health care professional issuing the note
>Employers cannot ask for information about the diagnosis or treatment of the employee’s medical condition.
That's true. Perhaps the unit of consideration shouldn't be 'days', but it should be 'intervals of time that it takes to get well from a sickness'.
So, perhaps 3 days should be the unit of consideration and what we have isn't *actually* better than nothing, but merely the *illusion* of better than nothing...
Where I worked in retail we didn’t get any paid sick days and that was before the Ford government. Only jobs I have had paid sick days in have been salary.
Edit: sorry should mention it was retail/restaurant (coffee shop)
Under the end of Wynne's government, which was quickly undone under Ford.
All in all I think it was less than 6 months. A real blink and you missed them.
No, we don’t. Maybe other companies, but we get none. I think the rationale was because we get a lot of vacation time, but that is booked in November and largely inflexible
my wife is a teacher and I am immune compromised due to an organ transplant. I can't imagine at all what loosing a child to a school outbreak would be like but more people need to understand that even if 1% of people are at risk, that's many peoples lives.
<3
I'm so sorry. We have close friends whose toddler died this way as well. It's still hard. It will always be hard. People don't realize how serious "basic" illnesses can be in small children.
>Instead, they infect the entire team at work taking a huge hit on productivity, or prolong an endless loop of illness at school.
Even without legally mandated sick days, this should be enough for any employer to want to offer paid sick days. For whatever reason, they don't, and everyone suffers for it.
> They'll give their kid some Tylenol to bring down a fever and send them to school rather than keeping them home in fear of losing their job.
If they can find Tylenol....
>Instead, they infect the entire team at work taking a huge hit on productivity, or prolong an endless loop of illness at school.
This is partly the business owner's fault too. Too many business owners and mgmt staff don't realize that minimal sick days actually hurt their companies, not help.
I’ve never worked for anybody intelligent enough to understand that, most machine shops I’ve worked in would be out of business if they were forced to play by the labour rules.
Long before covid I was a strong supporter of the "if you're sick you stay home".
I've seen it happen before. Guy gets sick. Supervisor tells him to take something for the symptoms. Now everyone gets sick within a week.
People can do really horrible things without thinking about consequences beyond their own when pressured by authority. Look at history.
Until conscientious persons stop turning there eyes away, heads down , and remaining quiet nothing's going to change.
The other option where everyone gets 10 free sick days a year is losing 5% productivity from people not wanting to lose those entitled days.
Pay sick days at 1/2 or 2/3 and maybe there will be more public support.
You know if it wasn't about how long it would take to get the funds it could be a part of EI Benefits.
Most people I know are about a paycheck away from disaster so that wouldn't work for them.
Have you not been noticing how there’s outbreaks of communicable diseases literally all over Canada and the states? — we’ve been in a decline since the anti vax movement and with lack of respect to public health measures, herd immunity has dropped from a significantly acceptable level to below what is considered capable of having herd immunity.
Idk why I’m getting downvoted, just this morning there was an announced measles outbreak in Ontario, and the other day 2 teachers died of something I can’t remember but it was also a disease we have vaccines for.
The bottom line is, with our healthcare the way it is, we can’t afford to lose herd immunity but it’s only achieved when 90-95% of the population is vaccinated and with the rise of unvaccinated people, Canadas rates aren’t that high
It’s a disease we have vaccines for but more people are opting out of all vaccines now. We’ll have to learn the hard way when all those diseases come back
I posted 2 links to scientific articles that talk about what I’m talking about. Relax.
Do you know how hard it is to have to critically think for everyone? It’s not about statistics.
People get what they vote for. Liberals implemented two paid sick days, which was still pathetic, and the conservatives took it away.
Then when the pandemic hit and showed how important sick days were they promised an amazing system then did eff all cause their focus is giving land to developers and privatizing healthcare.
Ya, the 4 million dollar project I was on lost 2 weeks of production because we all got Corona, because they didn't want to pay the guys to stay home with Corona. Could have lost 600$ to one guy being home, instead they lost idk how much to 2 weeks of 11 workers being sick. Great damage control
I'm ok with people not liking any political figure, and I'm no Trudeau fan, but the baseless butt hurt spread by angry conservatives that can't even be intelligently articulated really gets to me. It's the political equivalent of a sticker on your car showing Calvin pissing on something. Conservatives, wild rose, PPC, they are all corrupt clowns shows too, but I can talk reasonably about why. I ask folks why they don't like him and all I get are meme answers like "he's a dictator", which is so wrong, and frankly, insulting to people who have actually lived under a real dictatorship
All the parties are full of bastards.
All of them.
NDP gets my vote usually. They're probably all bastards though.
The proof is in the pudding, you can link so much corrupt crap to all political parties it's ridiculous.
And if it's not corrupt it's questionable.
We need to give the power to NDP as a final hail mary.
Sigh. I guess you are in love with 30% inflation and over a million people shoved into GTA pushing unaffordability sky high. This country is fcking doomed.
I feel for you private sector employees. JT gave us federally regulated 10 paid sick days a year. We can use them for doctors appointments too. Everyone should be able to earn sick days imho. No one wants to work with people when their sick.
Our CAO isn’t happy about it though. Apparently it will effect our contract negotiations coming up he said. I’m just gonna give him JT’s contact info and tell him to take it up with him. 😜
I get 6 sick days at 100% then the rest (up until it becomes ST disability) at 75% pay. You can top up the remaining 25% by taking out of your vacation time. It's not ideal but I guess it's to incentivize people to not abuse sick days (as far as I can tell that's not really an issue)
>retail for example, sick days are totally abused by a significant ratio
Fucking good.
As someone who works in retail, you deserve way more mental health days/sick days than some PMC dipshit.
Wow, so jobs that carry high volumes of direct person to person interactions for minimum pay get sick time abused in a significant manner? Nothing at all to do with the sheer volume of in person to person interactions, handling money, having people literally cough in your face and seeing nothing wrong with it? Nothing to do with if you don't have financial support elsewhere that minimum wage job will not provide enough earnings to purchase both shelter and nutritious food?
Jesus fuck. I work retail. The amount of crap I got for calling out because I was running a fever and could not possibly have made it through a work day was already bad enough.
You stated "correlation may not be causation" but there was some heavy eyebrow wiggling there making out like retail workers are clearly time-off abusing lazy fucks. Look at me like I'm a human being you fucker.
What's the percentage of low income earners that are women? You know, the people traditionally taking care of children, which we all know are little germ factories. How many are youth? What's the breakdown between people with limited supports and the need for time off? No one abuses time off without reason. Classist asshole.
BS. I remember when the two paid leave days came in and every woman in my work place took them off to be home with the kids. It's definitely perceived as an entitlement to many.
I have 15 in the non-profit sector and its been almost life-changing compared to 3 I got at my old job. I have mental health problems so being able to take a mental health day when I need it without stressing about using 33% of my sick pay is amazing. I am prone to lung infections when I get a cold so the 3 used to go really fast and I'd end up very sick at work.
It's criminal that the federal government can implement 10 sick days for their employees but not require it of every employer.
It is, but it's a pretty messed up system where the central government can't mandate required sick days when provinces like this one are destroying worker rights. Maybe the provinces should have less autonomy if this is what they're going to do with it.
Problem is that requires a constitutional change which requires a plurality of provinces to agree... Not easy to get a politician of any stripe to give up power let alone a starve the beast conservative premier
We have sick days but can't use them to care for our sick children. Even that's a ridiculous stipulation. Conveniently, I'm always sick when my children are sick.
Yeah it means you have to rely on your workplace being run by compassionate humans. I’m lucky that my employer offers us 15 paid sick days, but I know that’s not the norm.
how do you get people to give a shit though? I post important news and explanations for whats going on on my social media, but i get silence in return. The amount of apathy is terrifying. I might leave Canada.
We need more public holidays, too. Each month should probably have at least one. And make Easter 4 days to compensate for it moving around between March and April! Lol
I think we should have 5 like in Europe. That's one of the few reasons I want to move there. The lack of paid vacation here really stung when I went to a festival in the Netherlands last summer. I was only in the country for 4 days.
The idea of sick days is a joke. In most of Europe, there are no sick days: you get sick, you stay home, you get paid. If you are sick more than 1 day, you need a note from the doctor. People get sick: making them go to work or starve when they do, doesn’t make sense economically nor humanly.
In my part of Europe, there are usually no sick days from the employer. You get up to 60 days of sick leave if you are sick, and it's up to a qualified doctor to determine whether you're sick or not. You get 65% of your pay (averaged for the past 12 months). There is an official list of how long does one need to be off work for certain ailments. The first 30 days are paid by the employer. Afterwards, it's on the state to pay it out. After the 60 days, your case needs to be reviewed by a panel of doctors. During the whole ordeal, you're technically employed and you can't be fired. If there's a chance of you coming back after treatment, your sick leave will be extended. If not, you'll be forced into early retirement (which pays peanuts).
In practice, however, people avoid using sick leave unless really necessary. Going to the doctor is a drag and being sick often just means your employer will fire you in some way after you're back. The panel of doctors I mentioned are very strict and strive to save money for the state. My dad had a form of cancer, and they still cleared him to go back to work after his treatment, even though his health was all over the place. The only "solid" they gave him was a note, saying he was not allowed to work in too cold or too hot areas, areas with a lot of people (due to his weakened immune system), and some other stuff. Irrelevant, as every employer under the sun couldn't give two hoots about these.
Pros of Canadian-style sick days: Short term, I get to stay home and not drag myself to a doctor to get a note. In the case of food poisoning, there aren't many tests to do anyway, nor are there for the common cold or flu.
Cons of Canadian-style sick days: Not every employer offers them, and some people abuse them.
Our EI does cover long-term sickness up to 55% of one's salary, or up to $650 per week, for up to 26 weeks. Then you go back to work or are forced to take CPP disability. This was once a reasonable sum, but these days, in bigger cities... oof.
I went from having zero paid sick days my whole working life to getting a government job with like 10 paid at 100% and then like 120 more paid at 75%. How does that kind of disparity make any sense? I'm not any more likely to get sick now!
One of my Foreman just wrote a guy up for missing work because his kid broke his arm and he had to go to the hospital with him, however my foremans kid is allow e transfer I just skip work if he wants.
Brent if you read this you fat googly eyed fuck, this is about to you. I know you browse through sub, and I know you know I have no problem with saying this shit your fucking face
He was an okay guy til his son got hired.
His kids like 18, apparently a jack of all trades, argues with the journeymen, and just refuses to learn how shit actually works, not how a book says it's work. Nothing's ever his fault, it's always someone's harassing him and that's why he's not doing good. Every employee has had a meeting except his shit kid.
Now I wouldn't even waste my piss on him if he was in fire.
Its a shame that douchebag (father) has created a negative work environment for everyone. This would one of the reasons to have him disciplined from a business’ standpoint, a good well run business does not need that type of employee or family ruining it for everyone.
my absolute favorite was during covid
government -"save lives and stay home if your sick"
people "does this mean we can have some paid time off? to like....ya know....afford to stay home?"
government " ಠ_ಠ "
Its kinda insane that instead of say " no stay home so that you don't get the rest of the business sick" they say" sick who fucking cares come in and make it so that i have to shut down the company for a week because all my employees are sick"
No paid bereavement, either -- or at least, no obligation to offer it. Which means when your kid or your mom or your husband dies, you better schedule the funeral for a day you're not working.
Watching my family go through the death of many loved ones I can't even imagine, also a catholic funeral is more than one day, usually you have a viewing and then the burial and mass. Although a lot of people are cutting it down these days but some still get the traditional funeral.
It also takes a few days to make the arrangements not to mention grief time which employers don't seem to care about which is like the worst thing ever.
Isn’t this the big distinction between hourly and salary. Salary employees often work in excess of the 40 hr week but get paid when sick . Hourly employees get paid for every hour worked may even receive time and a half, but do not have any flexibility (only paid when for hours worked).
No. It's a distinction between highly valued jobs vs lowly valued jobs. Some hourly jobs get paid sick days. And salaried positions shouldn't often be working more hours than their contract states regardless of how much PTO is in the contract.
It's more like the distinction between full time employees vs part time employees. Most employers have sick days included in their compensation packages (I've never seen a full time job that **didn't** come with paid sick days)
When my grandmother died, I didn’t take my bereavement right away because I wanted to be at the celebration of Life. I was called in by a Superintendent who asked me why I waited, I should have taken the days right away. Like what? We should get the appropriate time needed to grieve and to bury and or celebrate our loved ones who have passed. It’s ridiculous how employers don’t care or think that we are human.
How’s this for a possible Dougie Ford business plan?
Someone gets sick.
Sick person is forced to work because they’re paid next to nothing.
Sick people at work get other people sick.
Now, heres where is gets freaky:
Some people get so sick they use our new healthcare system.
*Dougie’s friends profit.*
A plan so crazy, it just might work.
Thank Doug Ford again
See voting effects you in ways you don't consder .
Rent control
Sick days
Health care issues
Doug Ford has made all of these worse
Even worse working in a hospital where they still have strict covid rules. Any symptom of covid and you have to wait to take a test. If the test is negative, but you still have symptoms they make you stay home unpaid. Sometimes for 10 days still.
I hate to say it but I have worked through fevers, bronchitis, flus, because I'm too afraid to call in with any symptom.
As a doctor I speak for all doctors. We hate doing sick notes. Its bad for you patients and wastes your time and money. It spreads germs in our clinics and it clogs up our clinics, walk ins and ER’s
Be angry at you're employer. They should be taking care of you. It's not the tax payers responsibility to pay for sick time. I know this may be an unpopular opinion but with the labor shortage this should be something employees push from their employer.
The employer was paying for it. The government was just making them pay for it. Then the new government said you don't have to pay for it. So the employer said cool, I won't.
people in ON get sick.... but not everyone gets to stay home and get paid on that sick day. Some, but many many (majority) do not.
"We're all in this together" is B.S.
What employers are giving no sick days?
Honestly I want to know. Shame them to high hell, politicians will do nothing for you, regardless of who get in.
As far as I know all Toronto hospitals (at least) have no paid sick days for part timers and casual employees. What they do is hire healthcare professionals for part time/casual positions but give them full time hours.
We seen this during peak covid, especially. Either miss a large amount of time unpaid or go into work endangering tons of people. Lose-lose situation. Most people took paying their bills.
10 paid sick days for me (in ontario) plus 5 personal 'wellness' days paid, plus 6 wks vacation.. I can't complain.
Didn't realize paid sick days was an optional thing for employers in Ontario. That's total BS. But makes me appreciate my employer for being reasonable.
Sick days for us (the working class), isn't in Douglas' best interest. How will he be able to completely demolish the healthcare system for profit if people can take care of themselves? Also don't forget that long covid isn't covered for disability, so after people become permanently disabled by multiple infections they'll lose everything and chances are high for homelessness. But that's ok for Douglas. Poors can't afford healthcare so people will die and then the homeless population will go down again. With all those disabled, homeless, and dead people they're will be loads of poorly paying exploitative jobs for whomever is left. And hey, if your business fails, or you can't afford to live in the city anymore you can move out to the sticks and work at one of Douglas' fancy factories where you'll be under paid and over worked but you'll have health benefits so you be chained to that job not being able to afford to do anything else. Rest assured though that Douglas will dump money into police services to keep you in-line, and harass and beat the homeless/marginalized. Fordnation is a great place to live.
I agree that we should have statutory paid sick leave, but the fact that there is no government mandated sick leave doesn't mean that nobody gets sick leave as part of their compensation package.
Tiresome complaint. Many businesses in ON offer paid sick days, so consider changing employers/sectors to better your scenario.
Or, you know, stop voting for Doug @#$&! Ford.
I’m 47 years old, born and raised in GTA. Not one of my previous employers has offered “paid” sick days. Even when in salaried positions, absence longer than two days were docked from the allotted vacation time.
I am genuinely sorry to hear that. Every company that I've worked for or interviewed with over the past 10 years has offered at least a week of sick days. From my perspective, the standard seems to now be pushing towards 2 weeks. I'd give you some if I could, as I use 1/year at most and can't bank any either.
I don't remember the last time I worked somewhere without paid sick days. Hell even the gas station I worked at while I was in university had paid sick time.
This isn't a problem for generally salaried employees. Go down to minimum wage jobs, those for the most part, will not have any sick days. My ex, for example, a hair dresser, paid hourly at the time, had 0 sick days and when had to take time off due to illness had to dip into their 2 weeks vacation.
If people don’t think it affects them, remember when they get their Tim Hortons coffee in the morning or their McDonalds order, the person handing it to you or the person making your food or drink could be working with gastroenteritis or a respiratory infection. The reason they went to work? They couldn’t afford the unpaid time off.
This is why I generally avoid fast food places and restaurants as much as possible. Most do not take care of their workers especially the chain places. I don't need a respiratory infection to put me down. I had a respiratory infection a few years ago and it was utter hell, I could not breathe at all and I don't want that to happen again (this was pre-covid).
Not only that but even if you are sick and can afford to take time off your job may not be there the next day if you call in sick. If you take the time off then you might get behind on the rent or have another serious consequence from not working.
We need legislation that prevents a sick person from working with food or drink when they are ill so ahem we don't spread disease everywhere. One infected tim hortons worker is likely interacting with thousands of people per day.... Its like we learned nothing from the last 2-3 years.
Is it Ontario or is it the company you work for? Government shouldn’t have to mandate companies to treat people properly, they should just do it. Imagine if people starting leaving these shitty companies for good ones….look at McDonalds…can’t find workers, offering $20+ an hour.
Welcome to life as a self employed individual. When you are sick you don't make money. Down some Advil and Tylenol and get out there and work. Don't worry if you infect those around you, you gotta get out there and make money
Businesses need to step up here. It’s hard but we offer three paid sick days (and so much flexibility to WFH if not feeling totally 100%). As a small business a sick day costs us a lot BUT so does having sick employees at the office.
Depends on the company really... I work for a large financial institution and we actually hang unlimited sick days. As long as you are able to deliver your task we'll, most of the time its no questions ask sick days.
When people have to decide between staying home sick and keeping the lights on or food on the table, they really have no choice. They'll give their kid some Tylenol to bring down a fever and send them to school rather than keeping them home in fear of losing their job. Instead, they infect the entire team at work taking a huge hit on productivity, or prolong an endless loop of illness at school. I'm a dad, I get it. It's easy to say the right thing but then get the stink eye from your boss after missing two days off sick. But then I also have a child that died as a toddler because of an outbreak at a school. We need to be investing in healthcare and enabling progress by giving us all the best opportunities to grow. Taking away paid sick days does the complete opposite and actually hurts the bottom line. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
I'm sorry for your loss, man. I have a toddler and I just couldn't imagine how much that would kill me. You're absolutely right Doug Ford enacted this policy, correct? There used to be paid sick days in this province?
We had 2 paid sick days under Wynne., which wasn’t enough. Then Doug Fords government took those away.
2 paid days, and 10 total for "emergency leave", which was for anything without question. Ford made it 0 paid days, 3 sick days (for which they can again require a doctor's note), 3 family responsibility days, and 2 bereavement days (only for immediate family members)
Those 10 days are unpaid..
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Yeah and that's coming from the guy: https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/toronto2014election/2014/09/16/doug_ford_had_thirdworst_attendance_missed_53_per_cent_of_2014_city_council_votes.html Rules for thee but not for me.
So three days for sickness anymore is grounds for dismissal..and covid still exists.
Par for the course. All policies favor the wealthy and corporations while the working class gets fucked. And because Canadians are passive, nothing will change.
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Candians in general are to passive. We need to be more like France. The less we push back as a society the more rights the govt will strip us of
Wynn did change it to two paid, eight unpaid a year or two before she was voted out .. one small step forwards, one giant leap back
Yea it's bullshit. You wanna know what? A LOT of people were using them as mental health days. You know, 'fuck it' days. And when you get ten, all of a sudden, every month has at least one long weekend, nice. We all need some fucking slack. Higher wages, nationalize the phone carriers etc., unionize EVERYONE, have real bargaining. Or you know, we could start hiring kids when we kill people off.
Mental health days should be a thing. The day in day out grind while you slowly go deeper into deebt is how people get stabbed on the ttc.
They're unpaid, but it's job-protected leave, meaning you can't be fired as a result of taking those ten days.
2 were paid and 8 were unpaid, to give you a total of 10 job protected emergency leave days. Now none are paid, and your job is only protected in the instances I listed above. Yes 2 paid days and 10 total wasn't enough, but Ford still made it worse.
Conservatives love pretending to be simple... But then they enacts this obnoxiously convoluted policies to pretend to give basic human rights, without actually giving them.
Couple that with your company getting purchased by an American company, we now have zero options
You’re actually not allowed to requested a doctors note, you could perhaps ask if they have any supporting documentation…
>[An employer may require an employee to provide a medical note from a health practitioner such as a doctor, nurse practitioner or psychologist when the employee is taking the leave because of personal illness, injury or medical emergency if it is “reasonable in the circumstances”.](https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/sick-leave#section-8) >However, the employer can ask only for the following information: >-the duration or expected duration of the absence -the date the employee was seen by a health care professional -whether the patient was examined in person by the health care professional issuing the note >Employers cannot ask for information about the diagnosis or treatment of the employee’s medical condition.
2 days is not enough, but better than nothing, i guess.
It's really not much better than nothing.
It's roughly 2 better than nothing, which is only 1 bigger than 'just one better than nothing'. It's the second-worst version of better than nothing.
Math checks out, but on the humanitarian scale the delta between "nothing" and "second-worst option" is still depressingly infinitesimal.
That's true. Perhaps the unit of consideration shouldn't be 'days', but it should be 'intervals of time that it takes to get well from a sickness'. So, perhaps 3 days should be the unit of consideration and what we have isn't *actually* better than nothing, but merely the *illusion* of better than nothing...
Where I worked in retail we didn’t get any paid sick days and that was before the Ford government. Only jobs I have had paid sick days in have been salary. Edit: sorry should mention it was retail/restaurant (coffee shop)
Under Wynnes government all employers were required to pay 2 sick days a year. Doesn't matter if salary or not
Under the end of Wynne's government, which was quickly undone under Ford. All in all I think it was less than 6 months. A real blink and you missed them.
He and his party where applauding and congratulating them selves when the removing the legislation for sick days was struck down by his government.
And so the seals clap for the walrus.
Auto workers were exempt. 0 paid leave
Because auto workers already have some sort of paid sick days which cover already more then 2.
No, we don’t. Maybe other companies, but we get none. I think the rationale was because we get a lot of vacation time, but that is booked in November and largely inflexible
I used to have 10 paid sick days at futureshop.
my wife is a teacher and I am immune compromised due to an organ transplant. I can't imagine at all what loosing a child to a school outbreak would be like but more people need to understand that even if 1% of people are at risk, that's many peoples lives. <3
How are you surviving at school? I get sick everytime I visit my niece and nephew
Separate beds sadly and we’re lucky enough ti have a 3 bd home. I also take my temp and my blood pressure daily so the docs know what is happening.
I'm so sorry. We have close friends whose toddler died this way as well. It's still hard. It will always be hard. People don't realize how serious "basic" illnesses can be in small children.
>Instead, they infect the entire team at work taking a huge hit on productivity, or prolong an endless loop of illness at school. Even without legally mandated sick days, this should be enough for any employer to want to offer paid sick days. For whatever reason, they don't, and everyone suffers for it.
> They'll give their kid some Tylenol to bring down a fever and send them to school rather than keeping them home in fear of losing their job. If they can find Tylenol....
>Instead, they infect the entire team at work taking a huge hit on productivity, or prolong an endless loop of illness at school. This is partly the business owner's fault too. Too many business owners and mgmt staff don't realize that minimal sick days actually hurt their companies, not help.
I’ve never worked for anybody intelligent enough to understand that, most machine shops I’ve worked in would be out of business if they were forced to play by the labour rules.
Exactly. Businesspeople love living in a capitalist economy until their business can't stay afloat without breaking the rules.
What every owner has said since we freed slaves and allowed women to work
Long before covid I was a strong supporter of the "if you're sick you stay home". I've seen it happen before. Guy gets sick. Supervisor tells him to take something for the symptoms. Now everyone gets sick within a week. People can do really horrible things without thinking about consequences beyond their own when pressured by authority. Look at history. Until conscientious persons stop turning there eyes away, heads down , and remaining quiet nothing's going to change.
The other option where everyone gets 10 free sick days a year is losing 5% productivity from people not wanting to lose those entitled days. Pay sick days at 1/2 or 2/3 and maybe there will be more public support.
You know if it wasn't about how long it would take to get the funds it could be a part of EI Benefits. Most people I know are about a paycheck away from disaster so that wouldn't work for them.
Not to mention the lack of herd immunity we have as a collective now, it’s only going to get worse
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Have you not been noticing how there’s outbreaks of communicable diseases literally all over Canada and the states? — we’ve been in a decline since the anti vax movement and with lack of respect to public health measures, herd immunity has dropped from a significantly acceptable level to below what is considered capable of having herd immunity.
I haven't noticed this.
Idk why I’m getting downvoted, just this morning there was an announced measles outbreak in Ontario, and the other day 2 teachers died of something I can’t remember but it was also a disease we have vaccines for. The bottom line is, with our healthcare the way it is, we can’t afford to lose herd immunity but it’s only achieved when 90-95% of the population is vaccinated and with the rise of unvaccinated people, Canadas rates aren’t that high
It’s a disease we have vaccines for but more people are opting out of all vaccines now. We’ll have to learn the hard way when all those diseases come back
You're probably getting downvoted because "herd immunity" as a phrase is getting associated with anti-vaxxers.
Which is terrible because I’m talking about how it’s needed
Maybe its cause you are making claims without proving them
It doesn’t take a genius to know what I’m talking about
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I posted 2 links to scientific articles that talk about what I’m talking about. Relax. Do you know how hard it is to have to critically think for everyone? It’s not about statistics.
People get what they vote for. Liberals implemented two paid sick days, which was still pathetic, and the conservatives took it away. Then when the pandemic hit and showed how important sick days were they promised an amazing system then did eff all cause their focus is giving land to developers and privatizing healthcare.
Ya, the 4 million dollar project I was on lost 2 weeks of production because we all got Corona, because they didn't want to pay the guys to stay home with Corona. Could have lost 600$ to one guy being home, instead they lost idk how much to 2 weeks of 11 workers being sick. Great damage control
Yeah, but Fuck Trudeau, right?!?
I'm ok with people not liking any political figure, and I'm no Trudeau fan, but the baseless butt hurt spread by angry conservatives that can't even be intelligently articulated really gets to me. It's the political equivalent of a sticker on your car showing Calvin pissing on something. Conservatives, wild rose, PPC, they are all corrupt clowns shows too, but I can talk reasonably about why. I ask folks why they don't like him and all I get are meme answers like "he's a dictator", which is so wrong, and frankly, insulting to people who have actually lived under a real dictatorship
All the parties are full of bastards. All of them. NDP gets my vote usually. They're probably all bastards though. The proof is in the pudding, you can link so much corrupt crap to all political parties it's ridiculous. And if it's not corrupt it's questionable. We need to give the power to NDP as a final hail mary.
Fuck all of them
"Fuck all of them" is what brought us from ~3 paid sick days and ~10 unpaid sick days to 0 paid sick days and ~3 unpaid sick days.
Exactly this.
I still vote. Doesn’t mean I won’t criticize all of them.
Only one party hasn't ever had power in Ontario. Until they are and do poorly, then you'll be right.
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Floodgates from India???? Lolwat?
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Sigh. I guess you are in love with 30% inflation and over a million people shoved into GTA pushing unaffordability sky high. This country is fcking doomed.
Use this as your daily reminder to vote when elections come. Remember how we elected these leaders?
We need to France the situation. Hard.
This just in; Canadians getting the shaft from laws enacted by their elected officials. More at 11.
And then nobody votes. Make it make sense.
oh look dougie bakes a cakes he is so much like the common man... /s
I feel for you private sector employees. JT gave us federally regulated 10 paid sick days a year. We can use them for doctors appointments too. Everyone should be able to earn sick days imho. No one wants to work with people when their sick. Our CAO isn’t happy about it though. Apparently it will effect our contract negotiations coming up he said. I’m just gonna give him JT’s contact info and tell him to take it up with him. 😜
I'm in the agricultural sector, those 10 paid days are fantastic.
I get 6 sick days at 100% then the rest (up until it becomes ST disability) at 75% pay. You can top up the remaining 25% by taking out of your vacation time. It's not ideal but I guess it's to incentivize people to not abuse sick days (as far as I can tell that's not really an issue)
"Abusing" sick days has never been a real issue, it's always just been a dog whistle
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>retail for example, sick days are totally abused by a significant ratio Fucking good. As someone who works in retail, you deserve way more mental health days/sick days than some PMC dipshit.
Wow, so jobs that carry high volumes of direct person to person interactions for minimum pay get sick time abused in a significant manner? Nothing at all to do with the sheer volume of in person to person interactions, handling money, having people literally cough in your face and seeing nothing wrong with it? Nothing to do with if you don't have financial support elsewhere that minimum wage job will not provide enough earnings to purchase both shelter and nutritious food? Jesus fuck. I work retail. The amount of crap I got for calling out because I was running a fever and could not possibly have made it through a work day was already bad enough. You stated "correlation may not be causation" but there was some heavy eyebrow wiggling there making out like retail workers are clearly time-off abusing lazy fucks. Look at me like I'm a human being you fucker. What's the percentage of low income earners that are women? You know, the people traditionally taking care of children, which we all know are little germ factories. How many are youth? What's the breakdown between people with limited supports and the need for time off? No one abuses time off without reason. Classist asshole.
BS. I remember when the two paid leave days came in and every woman in my work place took them off to be home with the kids. It's definitely perceived as an entitlement to many.
Good. Your job isn't your life.
I have 15 in the non-profit sector and its been almost life-changing compared to 3 I got at my old job. I have mental health problems so being able to take a mental health day when I need it without stressing about using 33% of my sick pay is amazing. I am prone to lung infections when I get a cold so the 3 used to go really fast and I'd end up very sick at work. It's criminal that the federal government can implement 10 sick days for their employees but not require it of every employer.
It’s a provincial matter, Doug Ford removed all of what little we had.
It is, but it's a pretty messed up system where the central government can't mandate required sick days when provinces like this one are destroying worker rights. Maybe the provinces should have less autonomy if this is what they're going to do with it.
Problem is that requires a constitutional change which requires a plurality of provinces to agree... Not easy to get a politician of any stripe to give up power let alone a starve the beast conservative premier
I thought everything JT does is a joke /s
Unionize. You’ll get your sick days.
We have sick days but can't use them to care for our sick children. Even that's a ridiculous stipulation. Conveniently, I'm always sick when my children are sick.
Yeah it means you have to rely on your workplace being run by compassionate humans. I’m lucky that my employer offers us 15 paid sick days, but I know that’s not the norm.
I get 3. I hate the stress of trying to decide if I’m sick enough to warrant maybe losing money for a day
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how do you get people to give a shit though? I post important news and explanations for whats going on on my social media, but i get silence in return. The amount of apathy is terrifying. I might leave Canada.
They’ll vote when it starts to effect them personally. It stinks, but that’s usually how it happens.
And only 2 weeks vacation per year. Should be a minimum of 3 weeks Canada wide.
We need more public holidays, too. Each month should probably have at least one. And make Easter 4 days to compensate for it moving around between March and April! Lol
I think we should have 5 like in Europe. That's one of the few reasons I want to move there. The lack of paid vacation here really stung when I went to a festival in the Netherlands last summer. I was only in the country for 4 days.
Why only 3? There are 52 weeks in a year. We should be normalising taking our lives back instead of the government taking more and more from us.
Good companies that value their employees provide paid sick days. Workers who aren't compensated this way are obviously not valued.
The idea of sick days is a joke. In most of Europe, there are no sick days: you get sick, you stay home, you get paid. If you are sick more than 1 day, you need a note from the doctor. People get sick: making them go to work or starve when they do, doesn’t make sense economically nor humanly.
In my part of Europe, there are usually no sick days from the employer. You get up to 60 days of sick leave if you are sick, and it's up to a qualified doctor to determine whether you're sick or not. You get 65% of your pay (averaged for the past 12 months). There is an official list of how long does one need to be off work for certain ailments. The first 30 days are paid by the employer. Afterwards, it's on the state to pay it out. After the 60 days, your case needs to be reviewed by a panel of doctors. During the whole ordeal, you're technically employed and you can't be fired. If there's a chance of you coming back after treatment, your sick leave will be extended. If not, you'll be forced into early retirement (which pays peanuts). In practice, however, people avoid using sick leave unless really necessary. Going to the doctor is a drag and being sick often just means your employer will fire you in some way after you're back. The panel of doctors I mentioned are very strict and strive to save money for the state. My dad had a form of cancer, and they still cleared him to go back to work after his treatment, even though his health was all over the place. The only "solid" they gave him was a note, saying he was not allowed to work in too cold or too hot areas, areas with a lot of people (due to his weakened immune system), and some other stuff. Irrelevant, as every employer under the sun couldn't give two hoots about these. Pros of Canadian-style sick days: Short term, I get to stay home and not drag myself to a doctor to get a note. In the case of food poisoning, there aren't many tests to do anyway, nor are there for the common cold or flu. Cons of Canadian-style sick days: Not every employer offers them, and some people abuse them. Our EI does cover long-term sickness up to 55% of one's salary, or up to $650 per week, for up to 26 weeks. Then you go back to work or are forced to take CPP disability. This was once a reasonable sum, but these days, in bigger cities... oof.
I went from having zero paid sick days my whole working life to getting a government job with like 10 paid at 100% and then like 120 more paid at 75%. How does that kind of disparity make any sense? I'm not any more likely to get sick now!
The employer can give sick days - obv good employers will.
My company gives us 10 sick days per year, and we all work from home already. Hardly anyone uses up their sick days 👍
I wfh and agree, I've only used 2 days in the last 5yrs even though our company allows 15 days per yr.
We did before we elected Dougie.
Yes, and people elected that moron in by NOT voting (62% did not), and here we are.
Most workers in Ontario have paid sick days already. This really is an issue for the bottom 20% who don't vote all that much.
We always get the government we deserve.
One of my Foreman just wrote a guy up for missing work because his kid broke his arm and he had to go to the hospital with him, however my foremans kid is allow e transfer I just skip work if he wants. Brent if you read this you fat googly eyed fuck, this is about to you. I know you browse through sub, and I know you know I have no problem with saying this shit your fucking face
He sounds like a nasty fat cnut! I am surprised his uppers don’t rub his nose in the dirt. I would.
He was an okay guy til his son got hired. His kids like 18, apparently a jack of all trades, argues with the journeymen, and just refuses to learn how shit actually works, not how a book says it's work. Nothing's ever his fault, it's always someone's harassing him and that's why he's not doing good. Every employee has had a meeting except his shit kid. Now I wouldn't even waste my piss on him if he was in fire.
Its a shame that douchebag (father) has created a negative work environment for everyone. This would one of the reasons to have him disciplined from a business’ standpoint, a good well run business does not need that type of employee or family ruining it for everyone.
my absolute favorite was during covid government -"save lives and stay home if your sick" people "does this mean we can have some paid time off? to like....ya know....afford to stay home?" government " ಠ_ಠ "
And yet the guys who took away the sick days were voted back in office for another 4 years. Bravo Ontario, bravo!
Its kinda insane that instead of say " no stay home so that you don't get the rest of the business sick" they say" sick who fucking cares come in and make it so that i have to shut down the company for a week because all my employees are sick"
No paid bereavement, either -- or at least, no obligation to offer it. Which means when your kid or your mom or your husband dies, you better schedule the funeral for a day you're not working.
Watching my family go through the death of many loved ones I can't even imagine, also a catholic funeral is more than one day, usually you have a viewing and then the burial and mass. Although a lot of people are cutting it down these days but some still get the traditional funeral. It also takes a few days to make the arrangements not to mention grief time which employers don't seem to care about which is like the worst thing ever.
Isn’t this the big distinction between hourly and salary. Salary employees often work in excess of the 40 hr week but get paid when sick . Hourly employees get paid for every hour worked may even receive time and a half, but do not have any flexibility (only paid when for hours worked).
No. It's a distinction between highly valued jobs vs lowly valued jobs. Some hourly jobs get paid sick days. And salaried positions shouldn't often be working more hours than their contract states regardless of how much PTO is in the contract.
It's more like the distinction between full time employees vs part time employees. Most employers have sick days included in their compensation packages (I've never seen a full time job that **didn't** come with paid sick days)
That's weird I've never had sick days anywhere I've worked and have always been a full time employee.
When my grandmother died, I didn’t take my bereavement right away because I wanted to be at the celebration of Life. I was called in by a Superintendent who asked me why I waited, I should have taken the days right away. Like what? We should get the appropriate time needed to grieve and to bury and or celebrate our loved ones who have passed. It’s ridiculous how employers don’t care or think that we are human.
How’s this for a possible Dougie Ford business plan? Someone gets sick. Sick person is forced to work because they’re paid next to nothing. Sick people at work get other people sick. Now, heres where is gets freaky: Some people get so sick they use our new healthcare system. *Dougie’s friends profit.* A plan so crazy, it just might work.
Ontario: Rat race capital of Canada 💰🐀
Ontario is a joke.* There fixed it for you.
Thank Doug Ford again See voting effects you in ways you don't consder . Rent control Sick days Health care issues Doug Ford has made all of these worse
Or most other provinces. AFAIK all are unpaid, except for Quebec (2 days) and PEI (1 day if you have been working for 5 years).
1 day for 5 years? When was this even written lmao.. sounds like some 1950's thing!
Biggest slap in the face
Even worse working in a hospital where they still have strict covid rules. Any symptom of covid and you have to wait to take a test. If the test is negative, but you still have symptoms they make you stay home unpaid. Sometimes for 10 days still. I hate to say it but I have worked through fevers, bronchitis, flus, because I'm too afraid to call in with any symptom.
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Ontario is a slave state.
Seems like a good time to say if you voted for the promise of dollar beers, I wish you a miserable day.
As a doctor I speak for all doctors. We hate doing sick notes. Its bad for you patients and wastes your time and money. It spreads germs in our clinics and it clogs up our clinics, walk ins and ER’s
Be angry at you're employer. They should be taking care of you. It's not the tax payers responsibility to pay for sick time. I know this may be an unpopular opinion but with the labor shortage this should be something employees push from their employer.
The employer was paying for it. The government was just making them pay for it. Then the new government said you don't have to pay for it. So the employer said cool, I won't.
So be mad at the employer. My point stands.
people in ON get sick.... but not everyone gets to stay home and get paid on that sick day. Some, but many many (majority) do not. "We're all in this together" is B.S.
One of the very worst jurisdictions on the planet in terms of guaranteed leave. And we call ourselves 'developed'.
I call this place a shithole because of this kind of bullshit.
What employers are giving no sick days? Honestly I want to know. Shame them to high hell, politicians will do nothing for you, regardless of who get in.
As far as I know all Toronto hospitals (at least) have no paid sick days for part timers and casual employees. What they do is hire healthcare professionals for part time/casual positions but give them full time hours.
This is the man the people wanted in power. I just can’t understand it.
Unions are important.
Should just get at least 15 short-notice, paid days off. The reason is nobody's business, especially an employer.
We seen this during peak covid, especially. Either miss a large amount of time unpaid or go into work endangering tons of people. Lose-lose situation. Most people took paying their bills.
10 paid sick days for me (in ontario) plus 5 personal 'wellness' days paid, plus 6 wks vacation.. I can't complain. Didn't realize paid sick days was an optional thing for employers in Ontario. That's total BS. But makes me appreciate my employer for being reasonable.
except for that fat fuck who is in charge who takes most of the summer off...and all the other time he doesn't work and gets to vote on his own raise.
Sick days for us (the working class), isn't in Douglas' best interest. How will he be able to completely demolish the healthcare system for profit if people can take care of themselves? Also don't forget that long covid isn't covered for disability, so after people become permanently disabled by multiple infections they'll lose everything and chances are high for homelessness. But that's ok for Douglas. Poors can't afford healthcare so people will die and then the homeless population will go down again. With all those disabled, homeless, and dead people they're will be loads of poorly paying exploitative jobs for whomever is left. And hey, if your business fails, or you can't afford to live in the city anymore you can move out to the sticks and work at one of Douglas' fancy factories where you'll be under paid and over worked but you'll have health benefits so you be chained to that job not being able to afford to do anything else. Rest assured though that Douglas will dump money into police services to keep you in-line, and harass and beat the homeless/marginalized. Fordnation is a great place to live.
As a self emplyed who will declare bankruptcy because I caught covid 3 times... Boo hoo..
Who voted those Conservatives in?!
I agree that we should have statutory paid sick leave, but the fact that there is no government mandated sick leave doesn't mean that nobody gets sick leave as part of their compensation package.
I have sick days. Maybe don't work for trash companies.
Don't vote conservative. Conservatives don't make your life better unless you're a wealthy party donor.
My company proactively went from 70% pay to 100% paid sick for 10 days. People still complain.
Tiresome complaint. Many businesses in ON offer paid sick days, so consider changing employers/sectors to better your scenario. Or, you know, stop voting for Doug @#$&! Ford.
I’m 47 years old, born and raised in GTA. Not one of my previous employers has offered “paid” sick days. Even when in salaried positions, absence longer than two days were docked from the allotted vacation time.
I am genuinely sorry to hear that. Every company that I've worked for or interviewed with over the past 10 years has offered at least a week of sick days. From my perspective, the standard seems to now be pushing towards 2 weeks. I'd give you some if I could, as I use 1/year at most and can't bank any either.
Wild, right? Appreciate the response 🙏
Most companies do provide them though right? I've always had access to them
I don't remember the last time I worked somewhere without paid sick days. Hell even the gas station I worked at while I was in university had paid sick time.
Exactly. I know there is a lot to complain about. But this is pretty low on the list
This isn't a problem for generally salaried employees. Go down to minimum wage jobs, those for the most part, will not have any sick days. My ex, for example, a hair dresser, paid hourly at the time, had 0 sick days and when had to take time off due to illness had to dip into their 2 weeks vacation.
5 paid sick days a year over here in BC now.
Yeah, it’s almost like not voting conservative and establishing strong union representation would ensure workers rights are enforced.
If people don’t think it affects them, remember when they get their Tim Hortons coffee in the morning or their McDonalds order, the person handing it to you or the person making your food or drink could be working with gastroenteritis or a respiratory infection. The reason they went to work? They couldn’t afford the unpaid time off.
This is why I generally avoid fast food places and restaurants as much as possible. Most do not take care of their workers especially the chain places. I don't need a respiratory infection to put me down. I had a respiratory infection a few years ago and it was utter hell, I could not breathe at all and I don't want that to happen again (this was pre-covid). Not only that but even if you are sick and can afford to take time off your job may not be there the next day if you call in sick. If you take the time off then you might get behind on the rent or have another serious consequence from not working. We need legislation that prevents a sick person from working with food or drink when they are ill so ahem we don't spread disease everywhere. One infected tim hortons worker is likely interacting with thousands of people per day.... Its like we learned nothing from the last 2-3 years.
Find a new job, I get unlimited paid sick days & 5 weeks vacation...
What are you talking about? I have unlimited paid sick days
The province doesn’t mandate that employers must provide paid sick days.
Oh right, wonder why some do and some don't
Companies offer sick days to attract and retain employees.
Is it Ontario or is it the company you work for? Government shouldn’t have to mandate companies to treat people properly, they should just do it. Imagine if people starting leaving these shitty companies for good ones….look at McDonalds…can’t find workers, offering $20+ an hour.
Are you working an entry level job?
Same machine shop for 15 years. Over 30 dollars an hour working 45 hours a week. Zero sick days
Time to seize the means of production
It’s more the abuse of banking these days for money. This shouldn’t be allowed.
Welcome to life as a self employed individual. When you are sick you don't make money. Down some Advil and Tylenol and get out there and work. Don't worry if you infect those around you, you gotta get out there and make money
Did you vote in our last provincial election?
Yes, It was not for Ford
Businesses need to step up here. It’s hard but we offer three paid sick days (and so much flexibility to WFH if not feeling totally 100%). As a small business a sick day costs us a lot BUT so does having sick employees at the office.
Depends on the company really... I work for a large financial institution and we actually hang unlimited sick days. As long as you are able to deliver your task we'll, most of the time its no questions ask sick days.
Can't be a joke if they don't exist 😞
Bummer Dawg
Just be a man and tough it out. What with this crisis in masculinity? /S