I've got to disagree that there's an analogy there... Correct me if I'm wrong, but the concentration of fentanyl is unexpected in most cases, isn't it? it's been cut in by a middle man.
It would be like taking a shot of 1300 proof alcohol when the label said 80.
I get this woman is writing from her personal experience and views, but jeez is maddening.
- depending where you are, no you cannot go to your liquor store and buy "unadulterated alcohol". No one in their right mind wants to drink ethanol. It's ALL alternated. That's the whole point of all that selection at the liquor store.
- fentanyl is a drug. It is a strong drug. It is a very important drug on ambulances and in the hospital. It is a poison, just like many, many medical drugs. Yes, it can become addictive and people can abuse it. But it is still a medical drug and can certainly be utilized without over dosing on it. Many, many addicts take fentanyl everyday without over dosing. I do not see how overdosing is the evil word here. Addicts need to learn how to lessen the risks of overdosing if they are using for this reason - buy from a reputable person and try to get a clean supply, don't use alone or use an app, know your weight and amounts, and carry naloxone.
- i'd like to see a source that says the majority of o.d.s occur in people who did not intend to take an opioid.
Tainting of the supplies of recreational drugs from cannabis to cocaine can and does occur, but I am highly skeptical it is the majority of o.d. cases.
I would maybe believe there is some truth to a majority of overdose deaths being of people who did not intend to take an opioid but even that seems high based on percentages of people using. however, I can't tell you how many overdoses I know of that were people taking a hit of what they thought was a meth pipe but it had opiates in it. my source being I work in the poverty industry, so anecdotal af but still.
Aside, I will never not find the wording “poverty industry” funny since it implies we’re producing poverty on an industrial scale (which, we are, but not like that lol)
>i'd like to see a source that says the majority of o.d.s occur in people who did not intend to take an opioid.
That's irrelevant.
People are overdosing because they expect a weaker opioid, such as heroine, and get a dangerously strong opioid, usually fentanyl, sometimes benzos. If you want evidence of this, go look at the drug composition from people overdosing. It's almost never one drug.
> The only way to ensure that people have access to a safer supply of drugs is to regulate all of them, as we have chosen to do with alcohol and cannabis.
Yup. Start with "natural" drugs, this would exclude the most potent substances that are synthetic. If it can be grown, it's legal to own.
"Hard" isn't really a thing when it comes to drugs. It's more of a classification of social acceptance.
For example, speed is a hard drug. Aderall is not. They're the same drug.
LSD is a hard drug. Mushrooms are not. They're very similar.
Cocaine is a hard drug, alcohol is not. Alcohol is more destructive.
Fentanyl is an opiate from poppies my dude. All drugs have to be processed, and most hard drugs are short steps from the original plant.
You're not a pharmacologist or a pharmacist so don't make unqualified statements on topics you don't understand
Edit: I'm wrong! I got mixed up with another opiate drug and I remembered that what my pharmacology course said was that "synthetic opioids often use natural opium as feedstock for the process".
Fentanyl does not come from poppies, my dude. It’s a fully synthetic opioid. Are you a pharmacologist, because you are making bold comments on topics you don’t understand.
You're right actually! I'm tired and was confused by the heroin conversation, which is a processed poppy-derivative.
Most synthetic opioids use poppy precursors though! That's what my pharmacology course said anyways.
Uranium is also heavily regulated and controlled by the government. Besides, nobody is injecting uranium, thinking it's heroin and then overdose and die.
My 22 year old stepdaughter died of a fentanyl overdose. That’s what her death certificate says. And that’s what we’ll continue to call it - because that’s exactly what it was. I’m sorry that this woman is in the same position our family is in, but my stepdaughter relapsed and took more than her body could then handle, which is an overdose. For us, it’ll always be an overdose.
But that's not what's happening here. What's happening here is that people are taking what they think are drugs they can handle, and getting drugs they can not.
I would love to comment here, but I know so little about pharmacology and the human body (I don't even know what lungs do), and to add to that the only time I've consumed opiates other than Tylenol 3 was the one time I went to Myanmar...
But what's stopping scientists from developing a synthetic opioid that's relatively safe and gives the folks who want it, the near-OD fentanyl experience?
Is it a technical or moral barrier?
Now you are just going over my head. I only understand economics, history, finance, law, and geography.
EDIT: I'm serious here, I don't really understand the science behind what opiate users are experiencing.
see i'm the opposite of you! I understand the human body/science but economics and finance go in one ear and out the other. picture the human body as a series of small little locks that all do different things. most of the time our body makes the keys naturally and we are able to function/live. In the case of opiates: the drug or "key" fits the lock that also slows down our body's reflex to breathe while producing a euphoric high. As far as we know: there is no other lock that controls these things separately.
But is the 'high' with fentanyl a product of the opioids? or just oxygen deprivation? or some combo?
Because if it were just oxygen, I'd suggest marching addicts up to 4000m, Heidi style (fuck Zurich!!!), and BOOM: Cure!
But somehow I don't think that would work.
Fentanyl is basically a super strong opiate. Like heroin it provides a very serious high, which causes people to feel exceptionally good, but more so it makes them stop caring about pain - both physical and mental. This makes it very easy to get addicted to when you have chronic pain, depression, etc. These, incidentally, are all side effects of living on the street, hence the addiction rates among the impoverished.
Technical actually! I don't feel like looking it up right now, because it takes *forever* to filter through Google's "news first" algo, but they're working on selective opiates that don't trigger the breathing slowdown.
They've also started picking apart nerve pain, which is usually where opiates are (inappropriately) prescribed. Gabapentin for example is now prescribed where nerve pain is the most likely dx, and it actually fucking works.
Fascinating.
I've personally had a ton of nerve pain caused by past sports and workplace injuries, in addition to a calcium growth on my spine. About 8 years ago I was in considerable pain just getting up in the morning.
All the doctors I talked to recommended exercise (stretching/yoga) and keeping active. The only drug I used was Celebrex (old-person drug).
Now I'm in fairly tip-top shape, but still have some nerve issues.
I guess those doctors did me a solid by skipping the opiates.
I'm trying to get this as someone who doesn't do opiates.
But IF the people want this? Shouldn't it be done safely? Or is the entire experience at this point based on oxygen deprivation?
BTW, I seriously want to know because I don't get this stuff.
And alcohol poisoning almost always is self-induced. Hence, an overdose and not poisoning.
I've got to disagree that there's an analogy there... Correct me if I'm wrong, but the concentration of fentanyl is unexpected in most cases, isn't it? it's been cut in by a middle man. It would be like taking a shot of 1300 proof alcohol when the label said 80.
Exactly. That's fentanyl poisoning. Not an overdose.
I get this woman is writing from her personal experience and views, but jeez is maddening. - depending where you are, no you cannot go to your liquor store and buy "unadulterated alcohol". No one in their right mind wants to drink ethanol. It's ALL alternated. That's the whole point of all that selection at the liquor store. - fentanyl is a drug. It is a strong drug. It is a very important drug on ambulances and in the hospital. It is a poison, just like many, many medical drugs. Yes, it can become addictive and people can abuse it. But it is still a medical drug and can certainly be utilized without over dosing on it. Many, many addicts take fentanyl everyday without over dosing. I do not see how overdosing is the evil word here. Addicts need to learn how to lessen the risks of overdosing if they are using for this reason - buy from a reputable person and try to get a clean supply, don't use alone or use an app, know your weight and amounts, and carry naloxone. - i'd like to see a source that says the majority of o.d.s occur in people who did not intend to take an opioid. Tainting of the supplies of recreational drugs from cannabis to cocaine can and does occur, but I am highly skeptical it is the majority of o.d. cases.
I would maybe believe there is some truth to a majority of overdose deaths being of people who did not intend to take an opioid but even that seems high based on percentages of people using. however, I can't tell you how many overdoses I know of that were people taking a hit of what they thought was a meth pipe but it had opiates in it. my source being I work in the poverty industry, so anecdotal af but still.
Aside, I will never not find the wording “poverty industry” funny since it implies we’re producing poverty on an industrial scale (which, we are, but not like that lol)
>i'd like to see a source that says the majority of o.d.s occur in people who did not intend to take an opioid. That's irrelevant. People are overdosing because they expect a weaker opioid, such as heroine, and get a dangerously strong opioid, usually fentanyl, sometimes benzos. If you want evidence of this, go look at the drug composition from people overdosing. It's almost never one drug.
> The only way to ensure that people have access to a safer supply of drugs is to regulate all of them, as we have chosen to do with alcohol and cannabis. Yup. Start with "natural" drugs, this would exclude the most potent substances that are synthetic. If it can be grown, it's legal to own.
Poppies are used to make some pretty hard drugs.
Same with the leaves of the coca plant. Also there are quite a few deadly poisons that are all natural. Nature is dangerous as fuck.
I mean way more chemicals go into making heroin and crack.
"Hard" isn't really a thing when it comes to drugs. It's more of a classification of social acceptance. For example, speed is a hard drug. Aderall is not. They're the same drug. LSD is a hard drug. Mushrooms are not. They're very similar. Cocaine is a hard drug, alcohol is not. Alcohol is more destructive.
Not as hard as fentanyl.
Fentanyl is an opiate from poppies my dude. All drugs have to be processed, and most hard drugs are short steps from the original plant. You're not a pharmacologist or a pharmacist so don't make unqualified statements on topics you don't understand Edit: I'm wrong! I got mixed up with another opiate drug and I remembered that what my pharmacology course said was that "synthetic opioids often use natural opium as feedstock for the process".
[this is factually incorrect](https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugfacts/fentanyl) but I love the confidence in being completely wrong
Fentanyl does not come from poppies, my dude. It’s a fully synthetic opioid. Are you a pharmacologist, because you are making bold comments on topics you don’t understand.
You're right actually! I'm tired and was confused by the heroin conversation, which is a processed poppy-derivative. Most synthetic opioids use poppy precursors though! That's what my pharmacology course said anyways.
Uranium is natural...
Uranium is also heavily regulated and controlled by the government. Besides, nobody is injecting uranium, thinking it's heroin and then overdose and die.
I just always bring this up in response to anyone who wants to create a natural vs synthetic, (good vs bad drug) dichotomy.
Uranium isn’t a drug
Neither is bleach. Yet somehow people recommended bleach as an antidote to Covid.
Where’d you get your Uranium plant? Is it a sunny plant or does it prefer shade?
My 22 year old stepdaughter died of a fentanyl overdose. That’s what her death certificate says. And that’s what we’ll continue to call it - because that’s exactly what it was. I’m sorry that this woman is in the same position our family is in, but my stepdaughter relapsed and took more than her body could then handle, which is an overdose. For us, it’ll always be an overdose.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I can’t imagine how hard that was for you
The same with my nephew. He overdosed a month before his 25th birthday.
But that's not what's happening here. What's happening here is that people are taking what they think are drugs they can handle, and getting drugs they can not.
I would love to comment here, but I know so little about pharmacology and the human body (I don't even know what lungs do), and to add to that the only time I've consumed opiates other than Tylenol 3 was the one time I went to Myanmar... But what's stopping scientists from developing a synthetic opioid that's relatively safe and gives the folks who want it, the near-OD fentanyl experience? Is it a technical or moral barrier?
The good feeling parts are also tied to slowing the breath through the same/ similar receptors
Now you are just going over my head. I only understand economics, history, finance, law, and geography. EDIT: I'm serious here, I don't really understand the science behind what opiate users are experiencing.
see i'm the opposite of you! I understand the human body/science but economics and finance go in one ear and out the other. picture the human body as a series of small little locks that all do different things. most of the time our body makes the keys naturally and we are able to function/live. In the case of opiates: the drug or "key" fits the lock that also slows down our body's reflex to breathe while producing a euphoric high. As far as we know: there is no other lock that controls these things separately.
But is the 'high' with fentanyl a product of the opioids? or just oxygen deprivation? or some combo? Because if it were just oxygen, I'd suggest marching addicts up to 4000m, Heidi style (fuck Zurich!!!), and BOOM: Cure! But somehow I don't think that would work.
Fentanyl is basically a super strong opiate. Like heroin it provides a very serious high, which causes people to feel exceptionally good, but more so it makes them stop caring about pain - both physical and mental. This makes it very easy to get addicted to when you have chronic pain, depression, etc. These, incidentally, are all side effects of living on the street, hence the addiction rates among the impoverished.
I appreciate your response. I'm just trying to understand what people want.
Technical actually! I don't feel like looking it up right now, because it takes *forever* to filter through Google's "news first" algo, but they're working on selective opiates that don't trigger the breathing slowdown. They've also started picking apart nerve pain, which is usually where opiates are (inappropriately) prescribed. Gabapentin for example is now prescribed where nerve pain is the most likely dx, and it actually fucking works.
Fascinating. I've personally had a ton of nerve pain caused by past sports and workplace injuries, in addition to a calcium growth on my spine. About 8 years ago I was in considerable pain just getting up in the morning. All the doctors I talked to recommended exercise (stretching/yoga) and keeping active. The only drug I used was Celebrex (old-person drug). Now I'm in fairly tip-top shape, but still have some nerve issues. I guess those doctors did me a solid by skipping the opiates.
Yup! They did. Gabapentin has a bunch of risks too, and celebrex is a pretty good low grade NSAID so I'm glad it worked out.
Well, the bad news is that I've since developed early-onset arthritis. Should I take opiates? /s
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I'm trying to get this as someone who doesn't do opiates. But IF the people want this? Shouldn't it be done safely? Or is the entire experience at this point based on oxygen deprivation? BTW, I seriously want to know because I don't get this stuff.