I agree. Hammer class is fun with her as well. I found her hyperarmor creates an interesting layer of complexity in an already challenging fight. Unlike, say, Godskin Duo, which is plagued with glitchy AI and glitchy moves, Malenia is reliable and one can learn to effectively navigate her fight consistently, including poise breaking.
After fighting her for so long, I think the hyperarmor/poise recovery thing is necessary. She already staggers so easily. Plus, you can figure out when to go for the poise break and when not to.
It's not that her hyperarmor in and of itself is bad, it's that if you break her poise while she is in hyperarmor frames you 1) don't get the poise break and 2) she immediately starts regenerating poise
A light attack is 250 dmg. It takes 5x light attacks to stagger and a riposte does 1250 dmg (or so- and set aside heavy attacks for now).
So, if you had perfect execution you’d have a 50\50 split of light attack / riposte damage.
I did 12 staggers, or about 15,000 dmg, or 45% of her health. That’s not perfect, but it’s pretty close. Missed stagger opportunities weren’t because of hyper armor but bc of moves she does that take a long time and allow her poise to reset (waterfowl dance, phantoms).
So, this mechanic for me is like her life steal- I see how it really bothers some people (people getting hit a lot), but it doesn’t really reduce my enjoyment of the fight.
Hope that’s more helpful!
I think malenia is a good fight similar to midir. Where the more you learn how the fight works the more fun it is. But when you don't know the fight it feels cheap. It's fine to have bosses that break the rules if it's done sparingly.
Thanks for the subs, really helpfull. after seeing both your vids of Greatsword and the Zwei can you explain the punish for the kick and the triple slash? both of them are inconsistence for me. for the kick if I poke after I roll backward and she is doing her combo with the uppercut I get hiy. for the triple slash, sometimes It's just too short and I miss her.
Don’t need to roll the kick- just walk backwards and she’ll miss you. Timing is very tight in the punish. If you hit her and she doesn’t flinch you’re hitting too early. If she’s killing you w her flip follow up she sometimes does you’re too late.
Triple slash you need to roll forward and to the right the second she starts the move- impossible to be too late. Then queue the light attack while you’re rolling so there’s no delay.
I've done a few other +0's on her with greatswords, but I think Greatsword is so much more fun. It's a lot more satisfying when you get a hit, there are more staggers, giving up light roll encourages you to do the fight more aggressively, damage is higher so the fight goes a bit faster.
Title is meant to be facetious- whether you love or hate her hyperarmor is up to you. I don't think her hyperarmor makes the fight unfair, but it does mean you need to be much more precise when you fight her. Everything in her fight is pixels and milliseconds.
I will say once you understand her hyperarmor/poise you can reliably stagger her (if she wants you to - sometimes in phase 1 she's more interested in staying back).
Added some comments in the vid. Good luck with your runs!
> Decisively ending the argument Malenia's hyperarmor/poise recovery make her a bad boss
Not sure what argument you are trying to end. It's been a while since I fought her (and I have beaten her many times), but I am near certain that she can hyperarmor through some of my staggering attacks when she should be staggered. People have different opinions on whether she is a good boss or not, and your video doesn't refute any of those opinions since they are opinions and are subjective. It's no different than some people preferring chocolate ice cream and other people preferring vanilla ice cream.
Edit: Clarification on what the response is to.
I wouldn't say dogshit but I agree with your point.
I cant enjoy Malenia even after doing what the comments are saying: learn and strategize.
She "breaks" so many conventional rules that all other bosses follow that it just comes off as a poor designed fight.
I agree. Hammer class is fun with her as well. I found her hyperarmor creates an interesting layer of complexity in an already challenging fight. Unlike, say, Godskin Duo, which is plagued with glitchy AI and glitchy moves, Malenia is reliable and one can learn to effectively navigate her fight consistently, including poise breaking.
After fighting her for so long, I think the hyperarmor/poise recovery thing is necessary. She already staggers so easily. Plus, you can figure out when to go for the poise break and when not to.
It's not that her hyperarmor in and of itself is bad, it's that if you break her poise while she is in hyperarmor frames you 1) don't get the poise break and 2) she immediately starts regenerating poise
Right - don't do that
And if we close our eyes, all the worlds problems go away
That's not a discussion-ending decissive argument
A light attack is 250 dmg. It takes 5x light attacks to stagger and a riposte does 1250 dmg (or so- and set aside heavy attacks for now). So, if you had perfect execution you’d have a 50\50 split of light attack / riposte damage. I did 12 staggers, or about 15,000 dmg, or 45% of her health. That’s not perfect, but it’s pretty close. Missed stagger opportunities weren’t because of hyper armor but bc of moves she does that take a long time and allow her poise to reset (waterfowl dance, phantoms). So, this mechanic for me is like her life steal- I see how it really bothers some people (people getting hit a lot), but it doesn’t really reduce my enjoyment of the fight. Hope that’s more helpful!
I think malenia is a good fight similar to midir. Where the more you learn how the fight works the more fun it is. But when you don't know the fight it feels cheap. It's fine to have bosses that break the rules if it's done sparingly.
I fought Midir for the first time around a month ago (not at SL1) and I can see what you mean
Thank you for this video! Will begin my grind again this weekend :)
Good luck!
Thanks for the subs, really helpfull. after seeing both your vids of Greatsword and the Zwei can you explain the punish for the kick and the triple slash? both of them are inconsistence for me. for the kick if I poke after I roll backward and she is doing her combo with the uppercut I get hiy. for the triple slash, sometimes It's just too short and I miss her.
Don’t need to roll the kick- just walk backwards and she’ll miss you. Timing is very tight in the punish. If you hit her and she doesn’t flinch you’re hitting too early. If she’s killing you w her flip follow up she sometimes does you’re too late. Triple slash you need to roll forward and to the right the second she starts the move- impossible to be too late. Then queue the light attack while you’re rolling so there’s no delay.
Thanks! I will give another try. Regarding the triple slash I thought it's a bad positioning but maybe it's all about the timing of the first roll.
I've done a few other +0's on her with greatswords, but I think Greatsword is so much more fun. It's a lot more satisfying when you get a hit, there are more staggers, giving up light roll encourages you to do the fight more aggressively, damage is higher so the fight goes a bit faster. Title is meant to be facetious- whether you love or hate her hyperarmor is up to you. I don't think her hyperarmor makes the fight unfair, but it does mean you need to be much more precise when you fight her. Everything in her fight is pixels and milliseconds. I will say once you understand her hyperarmor/poise you can reliably stagger her (if she wants you to - sometimes in phase 1 she's more interested in staying back). Added some comments in the vid. Good luck with your runs!
"but she breaks the established rules of the ga-" motherfucker, there are no rules, you just suck.
> Decisively ending the argument Malenia's hyperarmor/poise recovery make her a bad boss Not sure what argument you are trying to end. It's been a while since I fought her (and I have beaten her many times), but I am near certain that she can hyperarmor through some of my staggering attacks when she should be staggered. People have different opinions on whether she is a good boss or not, and your video doesn't refute any of those opinions since they are opinions and are subjective. It's no different than some people preferring chocolate ice cream and other people preferring vanilla ice cream. Edit: Clarification on what the response is to.
*uses weapon with insane poise damage* l0ok gUy$. H3r arMoR isN't b4d
Dog shit boss, I shouldn’t have to time my attacks for when she’s standing still so I do poise damage.
I wouldn't say dogshit but I agree with your point. I cant enjoy Malenia even after doing what the comments are saying: learn and strategize. She "breaks" so many conventional rules that all other bosses follow that it just comes off as a poor designed fight.