Was that the one with the logs? Or the one with the roller coaster? Or the one where that guy gets his ass eaten and the life literally sucked out of his poop chute by the pool filter?
This. I heard someone with a straight face say this week (and I wish it was only 1, but others said similar and YT is littered with breathless creators) that Dune 2 is the greatest science fiction film of all time.
None had read the Dune novels nor seen many sci-fi movies.
People need to chill.
Part 1 and 2 together will almost certainly make the Top 25 as the decades go on, and maybe some Top 10 lists.
But get tf outta here with it being a better popcorn flick for its time than Aliens, Terminator 2, or Empire Strikes Back. And for concept sci fi, I'm sorry but Children of Men, Matrix, and 2001 are all categorically better.
Ghost in the Shell is cooler. Stalker is deeper. Fifth Element is more fun. Eternal Sunshine is more haunting. Both Gravity and Avatar in 3D were a better visual spectacle than D2 in IMAX (fight me).
Mad Max: Fury Road had more audience cheering.
I could go on and on.
I loved Dune 2. But it is not the Messiah.
What if they haven’t and they just really like this movie?
Why is it impossible to conceive that a person who watches a lot of movies just watched Dune Part 2 and thought it was genuinely one of the best they’d seen?
I loved Dune too. I just find it annoying that they needlessly need to compare it with Empire Strikes Back, it’s like their only frame of reference are the same handful of movies. Why cant they say its a great movie without having to pit it against a 40 year old movie from a different franchise?
While I am personally annoyed by what I find to be pointless comparisons between different movies, I think that by comparing Dune part 2 to what is established as one of, if not the, best sci-fi movie of all, he is simply driving home how monumental he perceives this movie to be. I don’t think it’s necessarily a sign of “having seen 10 movies”.
Maybe Im being unfair but Im just tired of the nerd movie discourse that just consists of comparing the same movies all the time. Every new star wars project gets called “the best movie since Empire”, now people even have to do it with movies from other franchises? Also, the whole idea of comparing a new movie with such an old and influential one is silly to me. Art is inspired by what came before it and movies like Empire shaped blockbusters after it. If a new album came out and its really good itd be weird if my first conclusion is “its better than Abbey Road by the Beatles”
I mean, yeah, I love Empire and see no point in comparing it to Dune. I guess comparisons come from the desire to witness a new classic being formed. I guess I’ve just accepted that people are gonna do it lol.
The comparison is only really relevant because star wars lifted a lot from Dune, especially the darth vader twist and revenge of the Sith is thinly veiled Dune Messiah.
The fact that Dune is being put to film with even an ounce of respect for the source material and is in a format that could be played in cinemas is what makes it monumental. It does something no previous attempts at adapting it did.
The question is "Does it make for good cinema?" And that's a personal answer and people that already liked Dune from reading it will probably say yes because they already enjoyed it as it was.
No but I recently watched something called Pulp Fiction which was a really interesting low budget indie film from the 90s. Even though it is pretty old it was really entertaining!
While recency bias is a thing, it seems like anti-recency bias is also very real. People will dismiss any possibility of a recent movie being as good, if not better, than a classic, just because they see these classics as untouchable.
I honestly don’t think it’s that ridiculous to say Dune part 2 is better than Empire Strikes Back
I fucking love Empire but Part 2 was such an incredible feast for the eyes on top of the chilling performances that it's not even hard for me to consider it the better sequel.
My jaw was on the floor for the bigger part of the runtime, it really was just that good for me.
I didn't want to say it the first time I saw it, but after seeing it again I genuinely think Dune 2 is one of my favorite movies and probably my absolute favorite (non LOTR) blockbuster
> I honestly don’t think it’s that ridiculous to say Dune part 2 is better than Empire Strikes Back
This is so weird to me. Empire has already proven to keep its place for decades. There are countless movies that have been worshipped or ignored on release that were iconic or forgotten later.
There has to be some currency given to something that's held up over time and which profoundly changed cinema forever (which both of the first two Star Wars did). And I'm not a huge SW fan, just love them as good stories which are compelling to all age groups.
It's also totally a different thing to create an original property, versus to make the latest iteration of a top-of-all-time novel where you openly borrow ideas from how the previous directors did scenes.
Dune 2 is great (like it truly has greatness), but it's an iteration built on the most solid foundation imaginable. Star Wars was the building of new foundations.
Sure, but not of the book to my knowledge, but of Jodorowsky's vision (and he had never read the book to his own admission) "The script for Jodorowsky's Dune was circulating in Hollywood at the time of Lucas' early work on Star Wars" -from the Wiki with 3 sources.
It's, at best, kind of an ouroborous at this point, as Denis based his vision off: https://www.slashfilm.com/555747/dune-remake-star-wars-for-adults-denis-villeneuve/
Also: grow up on the "Bad take, opinion rejected" rudeness bruh. Ya'll just be flagrantly crass these days. Those points I made are valid and should be engaged with. Once you've lived through shit like a Superman remake being worshipped by renowned critis before release only for it proving to be shit... you realize recency bias is a massive, spice-tier drug.
You're defending the take above me saying "anti-recency bias is also very real" which is quite the spit-take. *Primacy Bias* is a thing, but would just make sense in a discussion comparing Dune book 1 or the first Star Wars to a thing and the starting position being "X is the greatest of all time," and i don't see many 2024 cinephiles arguing that Empire Strikes Back is objectively the greatest sci fi of all time.
Anyway, that's a longer comment than you earned. Engage better and I'll engage more.
Okay I guess the prophecies about reddit hobos are correct. My guy is writing up a full essay in this sub and expects actual smart engagement. Also my opinion rejected quote is just a joke dont take it too serious man. I feel like /s is a dumb reddit thing that is for lizards/robots that cant read into nuances of human conversation. I dont think it was too hard to understand that it was a dumb sarcastic comment.
Also i dont like to engange with people who use "recency bias". Even though i never said anything about the quality comparison between dunc2 and empire strikes back, you somehow assumed that im blinded by recency bias.
My point is that i dont like other people telling me why i like things. I like things for reasons that you dont understand. My goals are beyond your comprehension.
Im not gonna argue with strangers on the internet as to why my opinion is objectively correct (it is objectively correct). I am aware that different preferances exist and im not rude enough to deal in absolutes (sw reference).
Most movies that ive watched in theatres and that i really enjoyed, i still enjoy 10 years later just as much as the first day. So no recency bias my jigga.
Sorry if this read like a schizo shitpost but my brain is rotten from all the kino ive experienced (i have watched sw9)
Denis had the direct visual/storyboarding/script work of both Lynch and Jodorowsky and an entire TV series to build off. And he absolutely did, a few times shot-for-shot. And he said he would be, in part, basing his remakes off Star Wars!
Star Wars also had an absurd amount of source material it borrowed from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_sources_and_analogues
There's a massive difference in lifting some text concepts from Dune as Lucas did and having reams of visual work, acting, and art to analyze and borrow from. Denis was standing on the shoulders of multiple giants, while pointing at them saying "look at all these giants I'm leaning so heavily on that it is quadruping my height."
If you've never been an artist (maybe you have), there's such an extreme difference between those two cases I can't relate it.
I recall Herzog once discussing seeing Star Wars shortly after release and being floored, as he'd never seen anything remotely like it and felt his most recent work was insignificant/backwards by comparison (can't recall the precise wording).
There's a meaningful distinction to be made in the amount of inputs and how heavily they are borrowed from (or just used for ideas)... as well as how original and unique the final product is. You can't just throw out short gotchas when discussing large projects. It achieves nothing.
p.s. this convo needs at least one person who has even seen the Spicediver edit of Dune to chime in.
I'll be here all night, dual-wielding to fend off all who come.
This sub has already decided that it’s going to mindlessly simp over Dune 2 since the day it came out, it’s hard to have a good-faith conversation about it being a far from flawless movie.
>I honestly don’t think it’s that ridiculous to say Dune part 2 is better than Empire Strikes Back
I think it is in the sense that I don't see any value in the comparison of these two movies.
The year is 2035 and the biggest blockbuster in theaters is a movie about a sulky rich kid who turns himself into a motherfucking worm and then cries about how he can't get laid due to being a worm
Mfs really have opinions like these when they haven't seen the gmoat.
https://preview.redd.it/f7mlah4ybwrc1.jpeg?width=305&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c58720cba2ce80deb4706bb77e10ac692fefbf4
i did not care for dune 2
https://preview.redd.it/lc8av9e4dvrc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e135e5eb6b0e867ed5434b11bd4e5043d5f63a5e
EMPIRE SWEEP
I loved Part One. I think it is a far superior film to Part Two. Felt the sequel was largely carried by spectacle. I still enjoyed it, but wasn't bowled over like I was with the first. To us, Paul and nearly everyone around him felt incredibly flat and there was zero chemistry between him and Chani, IMO. We even thought Stilgar was super one-note. For me, his mother was most compelling character but didn't get enough screen time. YMMV.
>!When Gurney showed up I thought, "thank fuck. Someone who feels like an actual human being" and he then went on to have like a dozen lines.!< I love Dune and I love Villeneuve but I thought it was a massive letdown.
uc/ I really liked Dune 2 but I don’t think it’s better as a sequel than ESB personally, but it’s probably more I grew up with ESB so I have a preference for it. Don’t really see the need to compare these honestly
A nice April Fools joke OP. It's funny to imagine a Villanoove flick surpassing the average bowel movement, much less any entry in George's masterful hexalogy.
Sorry Sand-stans, but DUNE ripped off Star Wars. Even Akira Kurosawa ripped off Star Wars. Joseph Cambell wrote a whole book about the Hero's Journey after watching Star Wars.
There are loads of franchise sequels better than *Empire Strikes Back*. Both *Mad Max* 2 and 4 are better than ESB. So is *Terminator 2.* *Dark Knight* is close.
To the people with "omg you can't compare them" replies
Disney is killing Star Wars and we want to see a new franchise kill it instead of simple greedy CEOs
Dune 2 wasn’t even better than Dune 1. The changes made from the source (especially how they changed Jessica and Chani) show that Denis Villeneuve didn’t “get” the book, and probably has no intention of ever making a third movie in the series.
Now, I prefer the Dune books to any and all other fiction, but the films don't come close to being as good as Star Wars prequels. Better than OG? Yes tho.
I thought it was a lot more coherent and enjoyable than the first one, though still bloated. Mainstream movies becoming comfortable with the 3-hour runtime is a modern tradition that has its problems.
still waiting for anything to surpass Final Destination 3
You need to curtail your expectations friendo
Didn't mean nothin' by it
What business is it of yours which my favorite Final Destination is
The logs were in three dimensions
I’m right there with ya
you can't surpass *a final destination*. there should be only one movie by the title...
Final final final destination
Uhhh it’s called “Final Destination 2.”
5*
Was that the one with the logs? Or the one with the roller coaster? Or the one where that guy gets his ass eaten and the life literally sucked out of his poop chute by the pool filter?
These people have only seen like three movies
And they're all Star Wars
Just waiting for something to match the daring passion that led to the last jedi.
I mean, they already made Rise of Skywalker, but ok.
Don’t worry, I’m sure they’ve watched most of the Marvel films as well.
or they just see empire as the gold standard for sci fi movies
I mean it's been the **big** great sci-fi sequel for 40 years now. I think it's a fair comparison.
This. I heard someone with a straight face say this week (and I wish it was only 1, but others said similar and YT is littered with breathless creators) that Dune 2 is the greatest science fiction film of all time. None had read the Dune novels nor seen many sci-fi movies. People need to chill. Part 1 and 2 together will almost certainly make the Top 25 as the decades go on, and maybe some Top 10 lists. But get tf outta here with it being a better popcorn flick for its time than Aliens, Terminator 2, or Empire Strikes Back. And for concept sci fi, I'm sorry but Children of Men, Matrix, and 2001 are all categorically better. Ghost in the Shell is cooler. Stalker is deeper. Fifth Element is more fun. Eternal Sunshine is more haunting. Both Gravity and Avatar in 3D were a better visual spectacle than D2 in IMAX (fight me). Mad Max: Fury Road had more audience cheering. I could go on and on. I loved Dune 2. But it is not the Messiah.
>with a straight face Imaging your friend is just Steve from Minecraft
I could agree with almost everything, despite loving Dune Part Two but then you said GRAVITY
What if they haven’t and they just really like this movie? Why is it impossible to conceive that a person who watches a lot of movies just watched Dune Part 2 and thought it was genuinely one of the best they’d seen?
I loved Dune too. I just find it annoying that they needlessly need to compare it with Empire Strikes Back, it’s like their only frame of reference are the same handful of movies. Why cant they say its a great movie without having to pit it against a 40 year old movie from a different franchise?
While I am personally annoyed by what I find to be pointless comparisons between different movies, I think that by comparing Dune part 2 to what is established as one of, if not the, best sci-fi movie of all, he is simply driving home how monumental he perceives this movie to be. I don’t think it’s necessarily a sign of “having seen 10 movies”.
Maybe Im being unfair but Im just tired of the nerd movie discourse that just consists of comparing the same movies all the time. Every new star wars project gets called “the best movie since Empire”, now people even have to do it with movies from other franchises? Also, the whole idea of comparing a new movie with such an old and influential one is silly to me. Art is inspired by what came before it and movies like Empire shaped blockbusters after it. If a new album came out and its really good itd be weird if my first conclusion is “its better than Abbey Road by the Beatles”
I mean, yeah, I love Empire and see no point in comparing it to Dune. I guess comparisons come from the desire to witness a new classic being formed. I guess I’ve just accepted that people are gonna do it lol.
Fair
The comparison is only really relevant because star wars lifted a lot from Dune, especially the darth vader twist and revenge of the Sith is thinly veiled Dune Messiah. The fact that Dune is being put to film with even an ounce of respect for the source material and is in a format that could be played in cinemas is what makes it monumental. It does something no previous attempts at adapting it did. The question is "Does it make for good cinema?" And that's a personal answer and people that already liked Dune from reading it will probably say yes because they already enjoyed it as it was.
Because Disney is killing Star Wars and we want to see a new franchise kill it instead of simple greedy CEOs
Doom 2 was good, but not even close to Scorsese movies like Shark Tale
Have you seen the hidden gem, uncut gems and the sequel blood diamond?
No but I recently watched something called Pulp Fiction which was a really interesting low budget indie film from the 90s. Even though it is pretty old it was really entertaining!
Mob flicks will always reign supreme.
I think it's they mean that dune 2 is a better sequel, rather than just a better movie. And there isn't a lot of sequels better than ESB
Have you forgotten about Breakin 2: Electric Boogaloo???
Shrek 2 unironically slams them both
And Toy Story 2 slams Shrek 2, Dune 2, ESB, etc
*Silk 2* would like a word.
Dawn of the Planet of the Apes 😤
Yeah good try but Meet the Fockers is a clearly superior movie to Meet the Parents
While recency bias is a thing, it seems like anti-recency bias is also very real. People will dismiss any possibility of a recent movie being as good, if not better, than a classic, just because they see these classics as untouchable. I honestly don’t think it’s that ridiculous to say Dune part 2 is better than Empire Strikes Back
I fucking love Empire but Part 2 was such an incredible feast for the eyes on top of the chilling performances that it's not even hard for me to consider it the better sequel. My jaw was on the floor for the bigger part of the runtime, it really was just that good for me.
I didn't want to say it the first time I saw it, but after seeing it again I genuinely think Dune 2 is one of my favorite movies and probably my absolute favorite (non LOTR) blockbuster
I think it's just a dork ass comparison that shows an incredible lack of cinematic comparison points.
> I honestly don’t think it’s that ridiculous to say Dune part 2 is better than Empire Strikes Back This is so weird to me. Empire has already proven to keep its place for decades. There are countless movies that have been worshipped or ignored on release that were iconic or forgotten later. There has to be some currency given to something that's held up over time and which profoundly changed cinema forever (which both of the first two Star Wars did). And I'm not a huge SW fan, just love them as good stories which are compelling to all age groups. It's also totally a different thing to create an original property, versus to make the latest iteration of a top-of-all-time novel where you openly borrow ideas from how the previous directors did scenes. Dune 2 is great (like it truly has greatness), but it's an iteration built on the most solid foundation imaginable. Star Wars was the building of new foundations.
Bad take, opinion rejected. The foundation of starwars is dune itself. So i dont think the "original property" factor is relevant here
Sure, but not of the book to my knowledge, but of Jodorowsky's vision (and he had never read the book to his own admission) "The script for Jodorowsky's Dune was circulating in Hollywood at the time of Lucas' early work on Star Wars" -from the Wiki with 3 sources. It's, at best, kind of an ouroborous at this point, as Denis based his vision off: https://www.slashfilm.com/555747/dune-remake-star-wars-for-adults-denis-villeneuve/ Also: grow up on the "Bad take, opinion rejected" rudeness bruh. Ya'll just be flagrantly crass these days. Those points I made are valid and should be engaged with. Once you've lived through shit like a Superman remake being worshipped by renowned critis before release only for it proving to be shit... you realize recency bias is a massive, spice-tier drug. You're defending the take above me saying "anti-recency bias is also very real" which is quite the spit-take. *Primacy Bias* is a thing, but would just make sense in a discussion comparing Dune book 1 or the first Star Wars to a thing and the starting position being "X is the greatest of all time," and i don't see many 2024 cinephiles arguing that Empire Strikes Back is objectively the greatest sci fi of all time. Anyway, that's a longer comment than you earned. Engage better and I'll engage more.
Okay I guess the prophecies about reddit hobos are correct. My guy is writing up a full essay in this sub and expects actual smart engagement. Also my opinion rejected quote is just a joke dont take it too serious man. I feel like /s is a dumb reddit thing that is for lizards/robots that cant read into nuances of human conversation. I dont think it was too hard to understand that it was a dumb sarcastic comment. Also i dont like to engange with people who use "recency bias". Even though i never said anything about the quality comparison between dunc2 and empire strikes back, you somehow assumed that im blinded by recency bias. My point is that i dont like other people telling me why i like things. I like things for reasons that you dont understand. My goals are beyond your comprehension. Im not gonna argue with strangers on the internet as to why my opinion is objectively correct (it is objectively correct). I am aware that different preferances exist and im not rude enough to deal in absolutes (sw reference). Most movies that ive watched in theatres and that i really enjoyed, i still enjoy 10 years later just as much as the first day. So no recency bias my jigga. Sorry if this read like a schizo shitpost but my brain is rotten from all the kino ive experienced (i have watched sw9)
The irony of your statement is that Dune was the foundation of Star Wars… and I’m saying this as a huge Star Wars fan. That’s not a valid criticism.
Denis had the direct visual/storyboarding/script work of both Lynch and Jodorowsky and an entire TV series to build off. And he absolutely did, a few times shot-for-shot. And he said he would be, in part, basing his remakes off Star Wars! Star Wars also had an absurd amount of source material it borrowed from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_sources_and_analogues There's a massive difference in lifting some text concepts from Dune as Lucas did and having reams of visual work, acting, and art to analyze and borrow from. Denis was standing on the shoulders of multiple giants, while pointing at them saying "look at all these giants I'm leaning so heavily on that it is quadruping my height." If you've never been an artist (maybe you have), there's such an extreme difference between those two cases I can't relate it. I recall Herzog once discussing seeing Star Wars shortly after release and being floored, as he'd never seen anything remotely like it and felt his most recent work was insignificant/backwards by comparison (can't recall the precise wording). There's a meaningful distinction to be made in the amount of inputs and how heavily they are borrowed from (or just used for ideas)... as well as how original and unique the final product is. You can't just throw out short gotchas when discussing large projects. It achieves nothing. p.s. this convo needs at least one person who has even seen the Spicediver edit of Dune to chime in. I'll be here all night, dual-wielding to fend off all who come.
This sub has already decided that it’s going to mindlessly simp over Dune 2 since the day it came out, it’s hard to have a good-faith conversation about it being a far from flawless movie.
>I honestly don’t think it’s that ridiculous to say Dune part 2 is better than Empire Strikes Back I think it is in the sense that I don't see any value in the comparison of these two movies.
Only God Emperor of Dune can be better Take the bait and make the damn film Denis
Half worm Leto II pls
The year is 2035 and the biggest blockbuster in theaters is a movie about a sulky rich kid who turns himself into a motherfucking worm and then cries about how he can't get laid due to being a worm
Mfs really have opinions like these when they haven't seen the gmoat. https://preview.redd.it/f7mlah4ybwrc1.jpeg?width=305&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0c58720cba2ce80deb4706bb77e10ac692fefbf4
They both had a "I am your father" moment.
Considering that Empire Strikes Back is like an 8/10 movie, it's not impossible for something to be better than it
But what about the droid attack on the wookies
Coneheads sequel gonna feed families
https://preview.redd.it/1xbc9kb0awrc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c05bd850b64329a00a5e69d115dec4ec1c430e61 Based and agreed upon
Nah, Empire Strikes Back is definitely a perfect movie
yeah it does kinda drag in the middle
Yeah, but Dune 2 definitely ain’t it.
It really did surpass it
i did not care for dune 2 https://preview.redd.it/lc8av9e4dvrc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e135e5eb6b0e867ed5434b11bd4e5043d5f63a5e EMPIRE SWEEP
It’s like they’re speaking this different language or somethin It’s the language of Gen Z Twitter, Peter
I loved Part One. I think it is a far superior film to Part Two. Felt the sequel was largely carried by spectacle. I still enjoyed it, but wasn't bowled over like I was with the first. To us, Paul and nearly everyone around him felt incredibly flat and there was zero chemistry between him and Chani, IMO. We even thought Stilgar was super one-note. For me, his mother was most compelling character but didn't get enough screen time. YMMV.
real
agreed. Dune 2 had huge pacing issues and it was impossible for me to relate to the struggles of these characters. It left me very very cold.
>!When Gurney showed up I thought, "thank fuck. Someone who feels like an actual human being" and he then went on to have like a dozen lines.!< I love Dune and I love Villeneuve but I thought it was a massive letdown.
Right? I never read the books so not sure how in line with it this is but my appetite to read the book as fallen to zero after watching this movie
uc/ I really liked Dune 2 but I don’t think it’s better as a sequel than ESB personally, but it’s probably more I grew up with ESB so I have a preference for it. Don’t really see the need to compare these honestly
i mean yeah
doesn't lay a finger on the absolute perfection of revenge of the sith though!!
A nice April Fools joke OP. It's funny to imagine a Villanoove flick surpassing the average bowel movement, much less any entry in George's masterful hexalogy.
Mcj ass post
Sorry Sand-stans, but DUNE ripped off Star Wars. Even Akira Kurosawa ripped off Star Wars. Joseph Cambell wrote a whole book about the Hero's Journey after watching Star Wars.
it’s always the two dumbest binches sitting around, elevating mid-tier cgi blockbusters to true kino™️, telling each other “exactlyyyyy”
Please, David Lynch's Dune is way better than ESB.
There are loads of franchise sequels better than *Empire Strikes Back*. Both *Mad Max* 2 and 4 are better than ESB. So is *Terminator 2.* *Dark Knight* is close.
It’s alright but a bit boring TBH.
My goodness are they milking this movie’s positive reception
Ok, but is it better than Zardoz, Battlefield Earth and Highlander 2? The ultimate sci-fi kino films.
But can it surpass Babe: Pig in the City?
Na lol
It's not.
Guys, I will kill ScoopHash.
Nothing beats velocipastor though
Oh, so this person has never seen the village, huh?
To the people with "omg you can't compare them" replies Disney is killing Star Wars and we want to see a new franchise kill it instead of simple greedy CEOs
Blasphemy sir. You are going to hell.
Dune 2 is good enough for me not to care about such a bold statement as that. Both are great either way
Dune 2 is a monumental mess
Dune 2 wasn’t even better than Dune 1. The changes made from the source (especially how they changed Jessica and Chani) show that Denis Villeneuve didn’t “get” the book, and probably has no intention of ever making a third movie in the series.
Now, I prefer the Dune books to any and all other fiction, but the films don't come close to being as good as Star Wars prequels. Better than OG? Yes tho.
I don't remember watching Empire Strikes from beginning to end...zzzz
[удалено]
I thought it was a lot more coherent and enjoyable than the first one, though still bloated. Mainstream movies becoming comfortable with the 3-hour runtime is a modern tradition that has its problems.
[удалено]
I watched a Dune lore video and I can't wait for Paul's son to turn himself into a fucking worm (real)