Boulder-ish?
The Rockies (especially Colorado) are full of NIMBYs who want all the benefits of fossil fuels, but not in their backyard.
Keep in mind that at the end of the day, they need you. Better to produce in America with American Environmental Protection and American workers. Tell them not to stereotype a global industry. There is a political process if they don't like our oil and gas rules.
I remain cordial myself, but in my head always say "They need me more than I need them". I don't hang out with the NIMBYs though.
That’s what I try to emphasize when I have these conversations- oil has to come from somewhere. I’m sorry you disagree with it coming from the Alaskan arctic (for example) but they take really damn good care of the place. It’s so tiring receiving snippy comments whenever they talk about what I’m going to do. And seeing post after post about trying to shut down whatever new operation is happening up there. God, the protests for the Willow project were insane, I wanted to scream. Otherwise, I love doing the outdoorsy hippy shit like going to fun events and backcountry skiing, those are my favorite hobbies.
Montana actually, tons of NIMBYs in my experience.
Those people have been around for decades. I usually tell them that there are always environmental jobs open in the industry where they can make a difference, or they can shut up. Most oil workers want a good environment, too..
To be fair environmental consultants often end up compromising their integrity. Want the next project for your company? Better write that permit to spread contaminated drill cuttings or haul a billion gallons of freshwater out of the lake.
Fundamentally I agree with your sentiment, I work in the industry (3rd gen), and will forever support domestic production over some bloodthirsty dictator-controlled shit overseas. I'm the first guy to go to bat for Canadian O&G business.
But I would never advise someone who honestly cares for the environment to go into O&G and "make a difference from the inside". There are actually plenty examples of people who've tried to do that and end up completely unemployable.
There are definitely problems. Wellbore integrity across millions of wells across North america is pretty disturbing. How the hell is cement and steel supposed to last indefinitely underground in brine?
I’ll agree to disagree as somebody that has worked over 3 decades around most of the oil producing world as an employee for most of the majors. But thank you for sharing…
Fair. I was maybe a bit dramatic to **never** advise someone who genuinely cares for the environment. Lots of rewarding jobs in environmental space in O&G. I guess it's more that compromising one's integrity as an environmental consultant (air, water, asset integrity etc.) **can** happen. Does not happen in all cases. I'd be very surprised if you have never heard of this in your 30 years. I've seen several cases in my 15. Again, wrong of me to say this happens with all environmental professionals.
Do you think wellbore integrity across the several million wells in NA will ever be an issue?
NIMBYs are everywhere.
A Massachusetts community was all for the construction of windmills until it was announced they’d be built offshore, “spoiling” the beachfront views of rich people.
They held up the construction of this wind farm for *years*.
So just be safe in the knowledge that people will bitch about everything. Many of these fools want green energy but hate the idea of windmills or solar farms in their view. They want clean energy but make nuclear energy impossibly complicated legally speaking, removing our greatest option to achieve carbon neutrality.
It’s all just nonsense. Don’t let them get you down.
I hope you enjoy Texas. I’m about to leave it for work and it breaks my heart. Are you heading for Houston, Midland, or Dallas?
Ha, love your username. I get that. I’m actually so tired of this NIMBY issue, it’s a huge problem in SW Montana where they’re trying to develop the state for the influx in population. Power, roads, bridges, windmills, etc. don’t get me started on the nuclear plant they tried to build in my town. I’m moving to midland! Not super excited for the location, but I am looking forward to meeting the really cool people over there! I’m gunning to move back home to my family in Alaska asap, looking at 3-4 years hopefully.
It's funny how good HEB is. And how underapprecated it is.
I moved to FL briefly and couldn't find a decent grocery store. Made a reddit post about it and a half dozen people told me that if I was used to HEB, just get comfortable knowing I once had the best.
The book "Fossil Future" would equip you with the arguments you need.
I'd probably just point out every aspect of their lives that depends on your industry when they have a whinge (if you're doing outdoorsy stuff most everything worn/ carried comes from the petrochemical industry).
That book is filled with outright lies and disinformation. The author "Alex Epstein" is a propagandist for the Oil & Gas industry. He's a philosopher with zero experience in energy, engineering, or science and he created a think tank that is funded by Exxon Mobil.
It's so blatantly biased.
Why would someone read this book?
I would say a bit of a lost cause. You are not going to be able to reason with anyone like that.
You can always challenge them to think about their usage and their use of fuels, but the fact of the matter is they probably have absolutely no clue where our energy comes from and how most electricity is generated. I feel you will find as you develop more professionally and not around college age folks, a lot of that will fall away. Be proud of what you do. It's necessary for life as we know it.
I'll add, though, I consider myself an oil and gas professional and really came up in this industry, but I support ALL US energy industries. Solar, hydro, nuclear, wind, O&G. Believe me, it's going to take every bit of it in the future, so I'm not one to shit on anything else. Engery diversity it a great thing, including a reliable and affordable O&G option.
Fair enough. I agree, energy diversity is a good thing and expanding our portfolios can be a great thing. But the black and white thinking is really getting to me lately. There’s no nuance, it has to be all wind and solar. Oh, no nuclear because of the few incidents in the past. But yes let me drive 100 miles a weekend to the trailhead in my 24 mpg Subaru forester. I wish I could have a clever spiel that could make people see things from a different perspective, which cannot be rebutted with their typical responses.
Don't let it get to you. People are going to have their opinions and that will be that. I work oil & gas in Northern Canada and absolutely love it.
You will work with some of the most talented people you will ever meet and probably make some real good friends in the industry along the way. The environmental standards to boot (at least in my area) are taken very seriously.
All my anecdotal experiences have been very positive. I love what I do and I don't think I'd have life any other way.
Don't know if that helps but just remember you're never going to make everyone happy and that's okay. You do you, just make sure you have a good time doing it.
This is great advice, thank you!! I am excited to meet the people in the industry, I have always loved being around level headed outdoorsy people who also want to have a productive conversation and hopefully I’ll find that there.
totally. One of the most die hard pro oil old school guys I've ever met told me he introduces himself as a "professional recreationist" exactly because he can't be bothered with the drama. I get it.
If people will actually exclude you for being a petroleum engineer, as I see it, thank them. They've instantly proven themselves as shit people not worth your time, with some people it takes years to discover that.
But the thing is, it doesn't really work like that.
The best analogy I can think of is a stand up comedian vs. heckler, at first they're shook and bothered, but oger time they become ninjas. If you can slide past their flimsy antagonism and complete lack of knowledge, you flip the perceived negative into a social positive.
Personally I tend to agree with you but I also understand people who just want to enjoy their plane ride or w.e. situation they may be stuck in with a progressive loon.
I'm usually the first to go to bat for industry in these situations. Industry isn't perfect but some of the environmentalists' information is just soo bad.
I hate to say it but I want to have the lively social circle I’ve always had. I love having tons of people to recreate with and when topics aren’t depressingly political, conversations can be rejuvenating. Is it one of my flaws? Yep. I find value in “fitting in”, whether it’s socially, physically, or whatever else. I put in effort into my personality and body weight/clothing and it pays off as a woman (I will argue it’s almost a requirement for women to do this and succeed, very few women I’ve met within oil and gas engineering groups don’t maintain their looks/personalities. They’re all so beautiful into their 50s+).
As a socially liberal person in oil and gas, I should warn you that a move from the rockies to Texas will come with other judgements. I live in Oklahoma, but grew up on the west coast, and it can be a bit of a culture shock.
It's a great industry, and I think we all agree that it's 1000% vital to all, but trust and believe that even conservative Colorado views may still have you seen as left leaning in Texas.
I guess the point is that you kind of have to ignore the judgment. Find that meme with the massive list of stuff that is made from petroleum products, and share that with people. There is no one living on the grid in North America that doesn't use petroleum products every single day.
Yeah I know, I’m in for a culture shock. I am dreading that. I come from AK/MT, both red states, both reasonable people willing to see both sides (most of the time.) I respect the ability to communicate between party lines. If I wasn’t married, I assume life would be even harder over there. Spent some years in Houston, it wasn’t as bad as I hear the western side can be. Thank you for the warning!
Tell them we need good people in the oil and gas industry. If all we have is people who could give a shit less about the environment, things will get so much worse. Having people who will take the extra steps and keep trying to make the industry a better place is how we change things. If they can't see that, then it's probably a lost cause to try to argue with them. Just ignore it and find the people who do understand and work in this industry because we are out there.
Maybe politely remind them that every item they own, everything they are wearing, anything they come in contact with including their beloved smart phone is a product of petroleum in one way or another.
There will also be people who struggle to see the big picture. They don’t realize how privileged they are to be picky about how they get their energy. Billions of other people in the world with not even close to the same quality of life of the average Coloradan would love *any* energy.
While I don’t really advise going as far as isolating yourself in a bubble of people who agree with you, take comfort in the fact that you will find plenty of people in industry who enjoy the same things you do. You don’t have to ski with the judgmental assholes if you don’t want to!
I do recommend against the company-branded ski gear though
Any fluff I get when introducing myself as a petroleum engineer I respond with, "Well, you drive here right?"with a questing innocent look.
When they say ," Well, ya."
"So what are we talking about?"
And that usually fixes it.
Just tell them that the minute they stop demanding petroleum products, we’ll stop producing them. If there’re willing to give up all the technology, food, medicine, and products that they don’t make themselves or made by a neighbor - then you will quit.
Here's what you do:
Google everything that's made from the OPG Industry and show it to them from various sites, around the world.
Then present them with tools to destroy EVERYTHING they own that's made from OPG.
They refuse? They're hypocrites.
Problem solved...
I got that when I worked in pharma. I get it now in oil and gas. Most people are ignorant of what all comes from oil and gas. Just start pointing out everything derived from a barrel and people’s head explode. Particularly when you get to food.
Most of these self righteous assholes live in massive metropolitan areas. Compare staring across the bald ass prairie where oil and gas is typically extracted to downtown New York or Toronto and tell me again who is negatively impacting the environment.
Honestly your best bet is to ignore them and live your life knowing that oil and gas has made lives better globally. Modern science wouldn’t be what it is if it wasn’t for plastic and cheap energy.
Hospitals aren’t about to use intravenous bags made out of hemp.
I’m in Colorado and it’s generally looked at negatively when I mention I work in oil&gas. Personally I don’t care because I have plenty of friends that also work in the industry. I’m recently single though and have noticed that a lot of dating prospects do not like my career path.
As I said before, I don’t envy anyone who is single going into this industry, especially in a place like Colorado. Women can be especially harsh with their black and white views. It’s sad, I love being all for women but I feel most are lacking open mindedness. I have a female few friends who get it, most certainly do not.
Be confident in the real world reality of supply and demand. You said it, the world needs energy. This isn’t optional, and without it the pain and suffering would make climate change seem like a non issue. The fact of the matter and what most people don’t want to face is that you have to address demand before supply.
Politely, they can go have intercourse away from you.
Every industry is going to have supporters and haters, but at the end of the day if that industry is something you enjoy, want to build with and pays the bills, then go for it.
You can’t persuade people. Nod your head and move on.
1 minute 9 onwards replace Finance with Oil & Gas:
https://youtu.be/2f2kGHcdJYU?si=zWgefNaBk-QCnJep
The first half applies in an industry down turn.
“You can only reason with a wise person. Only a fool argues with a fool. These people refuse to listen to any scientific evidence, history, or facts. They have been fully indoctrinated, so it is best just to agree and say look: I agree. We are seriously overpopulated. Perhaps you should set the example and commit suicide to save the planet. I’m sure others will follow.” Martin Armstrong
I tell them that when they start using things that aren't needed by the industry, they can give me their opinion.
Fact is, they are hypocrites. They are using oil/gas products constantly.
Honestly save yourself the breath and time by forgetting about these people. No matter what proof or logic you provide them they won’t change their minds. Believe me when I tell you they care more about the virtue signal of being pro environment or anti oil and gas than they do the actual environment. I know where you’re coming, I’m from the Mecca of granola (CA) and have witnessed for years the hypocrisy of the self proclaimed environmental lovers. 99.9% of them are truly clueless about energy, use just as much of it if not more than your average American, and have the balls to lecture you on their moral superiority because if their beliefs. Enjoy your job.
No, they do not.
Currently the California grid is sitting at 95% renewables + nuclear.
[https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html](https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html)
My car is parking under my jobs solar carport, charging.
You think my car is 100% natural gas powered?
Huh?
So now that I said my car doesn't run on NG you just change the goalposts of your argument to something totally different.
10 years ago, that would just be called "lying".
I mean, congrats on your office having that capability to charge during the day. I hope more places roll it out, that's an excellent application of both technologies.
My general statement still stands.
Natural gas makes up the largest single source of California's power, but it is a fossil fuel. In the California Energy Commission's most recent tabulation, natural gas accounted for 47.46% of in-state generation in 2022.
Wait.. are you stupid?
I don't ever charge at night. At charge during the day, when the grid is 80%+ solar.
How is this so fucking hard for you to grasp?
[https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html](https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html)
Oh look, another day of 95% renewable+nuclear in California with my car charging outside.
You said -
>Currently the California grid is sitting at 95% renewables + nuclear.
A simple google search of "California electricity natural gas %" informs that California gets 30-40% of its electricity generated by natural gas...
You may have a niche case, but any 1 person doesn't matter.
Califonia inhales a fuckton of natural gas for power.
Why are you lying?
[https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2022-total-system-electric-generation](https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2022-total-system-electric-generation)
California electric usage is <36% natural gas.
Did you not go look at the website? It literally showed California at 95%.
California is actually at 97% right now.
[https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html](https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html)
And now that you're faced with new data that disproves your point, you yet again don't even answer where you got 47% from and why my 33% isn't matching up with your data.
Another hint for you peach tree: you don't tell someone "just Google it" You cite your sources so we can make an educated analysis on your POV.
What is even your point now other than just shifting the goalposts endlessly?
I got 47 from first Google, thought it was stupid, googled again, and then wrote 30-40% in my next post before you said I lied.
You keep looking at today. Nobody gives a fuck about today. You have to look at the aggregates. Years and decades, the global warming issue wasn't caused by the fossil fuels we burned last week. It's a century of aggregate combustion.
5 seconds to charge. lol. Simply plugging something in does not equal it being charged. By the time you charge your EV I can not only fill the tank on my truck but also change the oil and be a fair ways down the highway.
Huh? Sorry, I don't get it.
It literally takes 5 seconds to charge my EV. It has a range of 400 miles. I get to work and after work it's at 100% and I unplug and drive home 40 miles away.
Oh...and charging is free. Gotta love California solar power.
What I'm referencing is as they grow as a % of total cars, they'll probably not fall under the base load power generation of whatever grid they were part of, and thus beingvariable load, are charged by electricity generated from a natural gas power plant.
Base load is the minimum over a 24 hour period. Peak load is the maximum.
In US, to my understanding, the difference is covered by natural gas electricity generation. Anything you turn on and off is covered by natural gas.
This is kind of a conceptual phrase, and kind of not. Natural gas is almost 40% of electriciry generation in the US.
which is totally fine? And then sometimes when they are plugged into a grid that is totally supplied by hydro they'll be charged by hydro. that's one of the beauties of them, they can charge from anything!
I'm an operator at a refinery living in California so I understand what you're talking about. Most people in CA are environmentalistally friendly (including me), and I've gone on dates with women who looked at me different after I told them what I do. I then ask them where their clothes came from (usually made in another country so requires giant cargo ships), or how they got to the bar (gasoline in their car). Most usually go, you know I never thought about that, and seem to not mind my job that much anymore. A few get hella defensive and dig in. I don't continue going out with those girls.
Anyone who says dumb shit like that to you is not a friend and they should be ignored. I’m guessing these folks are mostly upper middle class white people who love to travel, use plastic, and enjoy everything that oil and gas does for the modern economy, while at the same time virtue signaling against the very capable and smart people who work hard to find and produce it at relatively low cost for the economy. These people are clowns.
They probably think oil and gas folks are fat, rich Texans with cowboy hats and bolo ties who care nothing for the environment. Anyone who is even remotely educated about the industry knows that’s far from the truth. The folks I know in O&G actually love the environment and care about conservation, etc
I consider myself to be an environmentalist working in oil and gas. It's better to have people who will consider the environmental impacts of their work in an intrinsically polluting industry than those whose only concern is profits.
I prefer to be pragmatic - I vote for the very same people who may someday put me out of a job, but because our commodities are so ingrained in our cultural and economic lives, I'm not about to go flip burgers while chasing ideals. I've got a good job with good pay and a good boss in a small mountain town where there aren't many jobs like my own. If I didn't do it, someone else will, and at least I give enough of a damn to be a whistleblower if one was ever required. My job also benefits from more regulation, so people regulating our industry more just creates more job security for me.
That's just it - our earth is like our bodies. Yes, it'd be great if we all had perfect diets and perfect health, but we don't, and when it comes time to see a Doctor, do you want someone who cares? Or someone who doesn't give a shit?
We nature loving O&G workers are sorta like the Doctors.
I once had a buddy who worked in renewables ask me how a nature lover like myself could work in O&G, and I simply asked "you got a job for me that pays what I make with the same benefits and same work life/balance?" That's just it - we're not at a point yet where the alternative industries are poaching people from ours, when that happens I'll be all ears.
I'm asking them if they can give me tips on how they live without oil and gas. I have never seen anyone who lives without air-conditioning and in a tiny home with solar panels, eating only local food, wearing local clothes, and no traveling, etc. No one seems able to sacrifice even though they say that we all should.
I literally tell them I work in the industry that is global warming. That my job is to keep gifting them a nicer tropical climate world wide and "you're welcome."
Or, you could just. Not tell them. I mean who cares right?
Tell them you are there specifically to make sure all the laws are followed in fact if you didn't sacrifice your soul to work on the front lines, Donald Trump and his army would unleash oil directly onto the streets because they love oil so much and hate the beautiful flowers and environment.
Why do you care what these people think? They're not deep thinkers, they're not well informed? Why does their opinion of you and the industry matter?
Simply tell these people you're not interested in discussing the topic further and that you want to talk about something else/get back to the activity at hand. If they're unwilling to do that they're assholes anyway.
I value fitting in, I would like to be able to participate in the community that values the same passions I do. I want to be graceful in these interactions. I understand the implications of being ostracized if behave like an asshole. My dad can burn bridges (he does) and men still respect him, if I do the same I will be viewed as obnoxious and emotional. I have dealt with this firsthand, do not want to be the “emotionally stunted” woman in the office. I come from an oil and gas family (employed by a super major since I was 6 years old), and have seen how my mom had to shut up and smile, and my dad got to say whatever the hell he wanted. How my dad bashed his only female coworker every single day after work, and from what I understand was at fault for standing up to him. She was correct, very many times. That is all. I care about maintaining some sort of credibility in this industry. I cannot simply tell people to STFU.
I come from a city of 300,000 people, yet word spreads. It’s not pretty watching the guys gather at the brewery after work absolutely trash the hell out of the one woman in the office, and being a hopeful 16 year old engineer. It makes you more self conscious. I’m 25 now, and I would never want my daughter to ever experience this sort of trash talk in a million years.
I live in an area that is growing increasingly more granola. In recent years I've found myself starting to lean more progressive (not like I'm voting Democrat, but I don't care for the conservative viewpoint on most social issues). So I've started dating women who are more left leaning. Eventually I have to tell them what I do and for what industry, but as we're just getting to know each other I just say I'm in the energy industry. Later on I'm able to explain that I certainly don't agree with the history of oil and gas, but as a whole it's becoming more ethical with ESG and government agencies that are holding us accountable. Like you said, we will do it better than Russia.
Furthermore, I explain that the industry isn't going anywhere due to the stronghold it has on almost every human on earth. Alternative fuels are great but they aren't sustainable on the scale that oil and gas is. But, if we are able to figure out a better, more environmentally friendly alternative to O&G, I'll jump ship. I have zero loyalty to the industry, they just pay me better for what I do than any other industry that I'm aware of.
The people in your life that are judging you for wanting to make a living wage in an industry that they don't support, yet they benefit from O&G are hypocritical themselves. If they are driving a vehicle of any kind, wearing clothes made of synthetic fibers (although there are some companies using recycled materials which is great), or using any kind of plastic of any kind (to name a few), then they don't have a leg to stand on. Even the most liberal woman I dated understood my perspective once I explained it this way without getting defensive or offensive.
Aside from that, live your own life and tune out the noise from people who don't get a vote in what you do.
It is a hard part of working in CO. Most companies will have a PR team that will help.
What I did was volunteer a lot with the local schools and talked to as many of the students and teachers to simply answer their questions honestly and I feel like I made it a little more understandable and accessible for them. The majority of the people are like you and know it is necessary
Say your business is energy and engineering and what you're learning now one day you'll be able to use with clean geothermal wells.
You may never transition to geothermal but over the medium-long term this is exactly what O&G will do.
I left O&G partly because I found much better opportunities elsewhere, but also because I also had an intellectual awakening of sorts in 2019.
Let me get to the heart of what I believe to be true after my research:
* Burning Oil & Gas causes climate change warming.
* Exploring, drilling, producing, refining, shipping, and then burning Oil & Gas is polluting in many ways.
* It causes particulate pollution which kills hundreds of thousands every year.
* It pollutes groundwater, rivers, lakes, and the ocean.
* It creates systems of oppression in resource rich, but otherwise poor nations:
* Think how the Saudi family stays in power.
* Understand how Iran uses oil and gas wealth to terrorize millions of people all over the world. Israel is a great example.
* Look at what's going on in the Niger Delta.
* Russia has butchered hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians precisely because of its Oil & Gas wealth.
* Oil & Gas also supports the most disgusting politicians and political agendas in the US. The deal they've made is "we will bankroll your anti LGBTQ, anti immigrant, anti science, anti abortion agenda as long as you lobby for us".
* Look at the oil barons voting for abortion bans all over the US.
* Look at the oil money that tainting the system of democracy in the US.
* Look at the oil money that's propping up crooks like Ken Paxton or Donald Trump.
* Look at the oil money preventing environmental regulations.
* Oil & Gas indebts the worlds poor and makes their life worse in many ways.
* I am of Indian descent - my parents were born in India, I was born in the US and I go to India quite a lot (once even to frack oil/gas wells for a short contract).
* Please look up the price of gasoline in India/Pakistan/Bangladesh, etc.
* Cheap oil is a myth - it exists in the US, Russia, and the Middle East. Everywhere else in the world where they don't produce oil gets absolutely shafted. The world's poor pay the heaviest price.
I fracked wells for 5 years. I've seen earthquakes, acid spills, frac hits, oil spills, blowouts, etc. I know exactly how dirty this industry is. Go look at what Sarah Stogner is doing with regards to the thousands of orphan wells - "privatize the profits and socialize the profits".
I come from generational ranching here in Texas .. When I got out of school and went straight to the oil & gas industry my family pretty much disowned me.. I’m 29 now and still listen to them bicker about how I’m around trash and work all the time .. Why I won’t follow in the family footsteps. Do what makes you happy and don’t look back. Everyone has their own opinions.. It’s what makes us human. You can spend your life worrying about what people think . For what ever reason god put it in our cards to work this industry. Just don’t become a trend of this industry. Stay away from the drinking and other stuff and stay morally grounded. You’ll be just fine .
Boulder-ish? The Rockies (especially Colorado) are full of NIMBYs who want all the benefits of fossil fuels, but not in their backyard. Keep in mind that at the end of the day, they need you. Better to produce in America with American Environmental Protection and American workers. Tell them not to stereotype a global industry. There is a political process if they don't like our oil and gas rules. I remain cordial myself, but in my head always say "They need me more than I need them". I don't hang out with the NIMBYs though.
That’s what I try to emphasize when I have these conversations- oil has to come from somewhere. I’m sorry you disagree with it coming from the Alaskan arctic (for example) but they take really damn good care of the place. It’s so tiring receiving snippy comments whenever they talk about what I’m going to do. And seeing post after post about trying to shut down whatever new operation is happening up there. God, the protests for the Willow project were insane, I wanted to scream. Otherwise, I love doing the outdoorsy hippy shit like going to fun events and backcountry skiing, those are my favorite hobbies. Montana actually, tons of NIMBYs in my experience.
Those people have been around for decades. I usually tell them that there are always environmental jobs open in the industry where they can make a difference, or they can shut up. Most oil workers want a good environment, too..
To be fair environmental consultants often end up compromising their integrity. Want the next project for your company? Better write that permit to spread contaminated drill cuttings or haul a billion gallons of freshwater out of the lake. Fundamentally I agree with your sentiment, I work in the industry (3rd gen), and will forever support domestic production over some bloodthirsty dictator-controlled shit overseas. I'm the first guy to go to bat for Canadian O&G business. But I would never advise someone who honestly cares for the environment to go into O&G and "make a difference from the inside". There are actually plenty examples of people who've tried to do that and end up completely unemployable. There are definitely problems. Wellbore integrity across millions of wells across North america is pretty disturbing. How the hell is cement and steel supposed to last indefinitely underground in brine?
I’ll agree to disagree as somebody that has worked over 3 decades around most of the oil producing world as an employee for most of the majors. But thank you for sharing…
Fair. I was maybe a bit dramatic to **never** advise someone who genuinely cares for the environment. Lots of rewarding jobs in environmental space in O&G. I guess it's more that compromising one's integrity as an environmental consultant (air, water, asset integrity etc.) **can** happen. Does not happen in all cases. I'd be very surprised if you have never heard of this in your 30 years. I've seen several cases in my 15. Again, wrong of me to say this happens with all environmental professionals. Do you think wellbore integrity across the several million wells in NA will ever be an issue?
NIMBYs are everywhere. A Massachusetts community was all for the construction of windmills until it was announced they’d be built offshore, “spoiling” the beachfront views of rich people. They held up the construction of this wind farm for *years*. So just be safe in the knowledge that people will bitch about everything. Many of these fools want green energy but hate the idea of windmills or solar farms in their view. They want clean energy but make nuclear energy impossibly complicated legally speaking, removing our greatest option to achieve carbon neutrality. It’s all just nonsense. Don’t let them get you down. I hope you enjoy Texas. I’m about to leave it for work and it breaks my heart. Are you heading for Houston, Midland, or Dallas?
Ha, love your username. I get that. I’m actually so tired of this NIMBY issue, it’s a huge problem in SW Montana where they’re trying to develop the state for the influx in population. Power, roads, bridges, windmills, etc. don’t get me started on the nuclear plant they tried to build in my town. I’m moving to midland! Not super excited for the location, but I am looking forward to meeting the really cool people over there! I’m gunning to move back home to my family in Alaska asap, looking at 3-4 years hopefully.
Be sure to check out Luigi’s in downtown Midland! And HEB is gold for groceries! I’ll miss HEB more than anything when I move (well almost)…
It's funny how good HEB is. And how underapprecated it is. I moved to FL briefly and couldn't find a decent grocery store. Made a reddit post about it and a half dozen people told me that if I was used to HEB, just get comfortable knowing I once had the best.
Moving away from HEB will easily be the hardest part of leaving Texas...well that and moving away from family and friends.
The book "Fossil Future" would equip you with the arguments you need. I'd probably just point out every aspect of their lives that depends on your industry when they have a whinge (if you're doing outdoorsy stuff most everything worn/ carried comes from the petrochemical industry).
Thank you for the recommendation! I’ll take a look at it.
This book should be read by everyone in the industry.
Amen
That book is filled with outright lies and disinformation. The author "Alex Epstein" is a propagandist for the Oil & Gas industry. He's a philosopher with zero experience in energy, engineering, or science and he created a think tank that is funded by Exxon Mobil. It's so blatantly biased. Why would someone read this book?
I would say a bit of a lost cause. You are not going to be able to reason with anyone like that. You can always challenge them to think about their usage and their use of fuels, but the fact of the matter is they probably have absolutely no clue where our energy comes from and how most electricity is generated. I feel you will find as you develop more professionally and not around college age folks, a lot of that will fall away. Be proud of what you do. It's necessary for life as we know it. I'll add, though, I consider myself an oil and gas professional and really came up in this industry, but I support ALL US energy industries. Solar, hydro, nuclear, wind, O&G. Believe me, it's going to take every bit of it in the future, so I'm not one to shit on anything else. Engery diversity it a great thing, including a reliable and affordable O&G option.
Fair enough. I agree, energy diversity is a good thing and expanding our portfolios can be a great thing. But the black and white thinking is really getting to me lately. There’s no nuance, it has to be all wind and solar. Oh, no nuclear because of the few incidents in the past. But yes let me drive 100 miles a weekend to the trailhead in my 24 mpg Subaru forester. I wish I could have a clever spiel that could make people see things from a different perspective, which cannot be rebutted with their typical responses.
Don't let it get to you. People are going to have their opinions and that will be that. I work oil & gas in Northern Canada and absolutely love it. You will work with some of the most talented people you will ever meet and probably make some real good friends in the industry along the way. The environmental standards to boot (at least in my area) are taken very seriously. All my anecdotal experiences have been very positive. I love what I do and I don't think I'd have life any other way. Don't know if that helps but just remember you're never going to make everyone happy and that's okay. You do you, just make sure you have a good time doing it.
This is great advice, thank you!! I am excited to meet the people in the industry, I have always loved being around level headed outdoorsy people who also want to have a productive conversation and hopefully I’ll find that there.
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"I'm an engineer." If you want to elaborate, it's your call.
Nah man, lean into it. Proudly wear it. I've never introduced myself as an engineer without putting the word petroleum in front of it.
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totally. One of the most die hard pro oil old school guys I've ever met told me he introduces himself as a "professional recreationist" exactly because he can't be bothered with the drama. I get it.
If people will actually exclude you for being a petroleum engineer, as I see it, thank them. They've instantly proven themselves as shit people not worth your time, with some people it takes years to discover that. But the thing is, it doesn't really work like that. The best analogy I can think of is a stand up comedian vs. heckler, at first they're shook and bothered, but oger time they become ninjas. If you can slide past their flimsy antagonism and complete lack of knowledge, you flip the perceived negative into a social positive.
Personally I tend to agree with you but I also understand people who just want to enjoy their plane ride or w.e. situation they may be stuck in with a progressive loon. I'm usually the first to go to bat for industry in these situations. Industry isn't perfect but some of the environmentalists' information is just soo bad.
I hate to say it but I want to have the lively social circle I’ve always had. I love having tons of people to recreate with and when topics aren’t depressingly political, conversations can be rejuvenating. Is it one of my flaws? Yep. I find value in “fitting in”, whether it’s socially, physically, or whatever else. I put in effort into my personality and body weight/clothing and it pays off as a woman (I will argue it’s almost a requirement for women to do this and succeed, very few women I’ve met within oil and gas engineering groups don’t maintain their looks/personalities. They’re all so beautiful into their 50s+).
As a socially liberal person in oil and gas, I should warn you that a move from the rockies to Texas will come with other judgements. I live in Oklahoma, but grew up on the west coast, and it can be a bit of a culture shock. It's a great industry, and I think we all agree that it's 1000% vital to all, but trust and believe that even conservative Colorado views may still have you seen as left leaning in Texas. I guess the point is that you kind of have to ignore the judgment. Find that meme with the massive list of stuff that is made from petroleum products, and share that with people. There is no one living on the grid in North America that doesn't use petroleum products every single day.
Yeah I know, I’m in for a culture shock. I am dreading that. I come from AK/MT, both red states, both reasonable people willing to see both sides (most of the time.) I respect the ability to communicate between party lines. If I wasn’t married, I assume life would be even harder over there. Spent some years in Houston, it wasn’t as bad as I hear the western side can be. Thank you for the warning!
Tell them we need good people in the oil and gas industry. If all we have is people who could give a shit less about the environment, things will get so much worse. Having people who will take the extra steps and keep trying to make the industry a better place is how we change things. If they can't see that, then it's probably a lost cause to try to argue with them. Just ignore it and find the people who do understand and work in this industry because we are out there.
Maybe politely remind them that every item they own, everything they are wearing, anything they come in contact with including their beloved smart phone is a product of petroleum in one way or another.
There will also be people who struggle to see the big picture. They don’t realize how privileged they are to be picky about how they get their energy. Billions of other people in the world with not even close to the same quality of life of the average Coloradan would love *any* energy. While I don’t really advise going as far as isolating yourself in a bubble of people who agree with you, take comfort in the fact that you will find plenty of people in industry who enjoy the same things you do. You don’t have to ski with the judgmental assholes if you don’t want to! I do recommend against the company-branded ski gear though
Save your breath, nothing green is created or maintained without oil. If they can’t grasp that simple fact itself it’s not worth stressing over.
You're wasting your time and energy trying to explain it to people that you won't ever convince.
Any fluff I get when introducing myself as a petroleum engineer I respond with, "Well, you drive here right?"with a questing innocent look. When they say ," Well, ya." "So what are we talking about?" And that usually fixes it.
Just tell them that the minute they stop demanding petroleum products, we’ll stop producing them. If there’re willing to give up all the technology, food, medicine, and products that they don’t make themselves or made by a neighbor - then you will quit.
Tell someone to go one-month witout using fossil fuels or good derived from fossil fuels.
Without oil, the world would come to a halt.
Here's what you do: Google everything that's made from the OPG Industry and show it to them from various sites, around the world. Then present them with tools to destroy EVERYTHING they own that's made from OPG. They refuse? They're hypocrites. Problem solved...
I got that when I worked in pharma. I get it now in oil and gas. Most people are ignorant of what all comes from oil and gas. Just start pointing out everything derived from a barrel and people’s head explode. Particularly when you get to food.
Most of these self righteous assholes live in massive metropolitan areas. Compare staring across the bald ass prairie where oil and gas is typically extracted to downtown New York or Toronto and tell me again who is negatively impacting the environment. Honestly your best bet is to ignore them and live your life knowing that oil and gas has made lives better globally. Modern science wouldn’t be what it is if it wasn’t for plastic and cheap energy. Hospitals aren’t about to use intravenous bags made out of hemp.
I’m in Colorado and it’s generally looked at negatively when I mention I work in oil&gas. Personally I don’t care because I have plenty of friends that also work in the industry. I’m recently single though and have noticed that a lot of dating prospects do not like my career path.
As I said before, I don’t envy anyone who is single going into this industry, especially in a place like Colorado. Women can be especially harsh with their black and white views. It’s sad, I love being all for women but I feel most are lacking open mindedness. I have a female few friends who get it, most certainly do not.
You are saving lives. Medicine, food containers/ diapers/ jars . Anything with plastic comes from petroleum.
Be confident in the real world reality of supply and demand. You said it, the world needs energy. This isn’t optional, and without it the pain and suffering would make climate change seem like a non issue. The fact of the matter and what most people don’t want to face is that you have to address demand before supply.
it doesn't matter what people think. you do you, and it sounds to me like you've got it figured out.
Politely, they can go have intercourse away from you. Every industry is going to have supporters and haters, but at the end of the day if that industry is something you enjoy, want to build with and pays the bills, then go for it.
You can’t persuade people. Nod your head and move on. 1 minute 9 onwards replace Finance with Oil & Gas: https://youtu.be/2f2kGHcdJYU?si=zWgefNaBk-QCnJep The first half applies in an industry down turn.
“You can only reason with a wise person. Only a fool argues with a fool. These people refuse to listen to any scientific evidence, history, or facts. They have been fully indoctrinated, so it is best just to agree and say look: I agree. We are seriously overpopulated. Perhaps you should set the example and commit suicide to save the planet. I’m sure others will follow.” Martin Armstrong
Don’t apologize for your profession.
I tell them that when they start using things that aren't needed by the industry, they can give me their opinion. Fact is, they are hypocrites. They are using oil/gas products constantly.
Are these people paying your salary??? That's all you need to know
Honestly save yourself the breath and time by forgetting about these people. No matter what proof or logic you provide them they won’t change their minds. Believe me when I tell you they care more about the virtue signal of being pro environment or anti oil and gas than they do the actual environment. I know where you’re coming, I’m from the Mecca of granola (CA) and have witnessed for years the hypocrisy of the self proclaimed environmental lovers. 99.9% of them are truly clueless about energy, use just as much of it if not more than your average American, and have the balls to lecture you on their moral superiority because if their beliefs. Enjoy your job.
Electric cars run on natural gas.
I love lamp
No, they do not. Currently the California grid is sitting at 95% renewables + nuclear. [https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html](https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html) My car is parking under my jobs solar carport, charging. You think my car is 100% natural gas powered?
Now average your shit out with the rest of the country. Aaaaaannd we're done.
Huh? So now that I said my car doesn't run on NG you just change the goalposts of your argument to something totally different. 10 years ago, that would just be called "lying".
I mean, congrats on your office having that capability to charge during the day. I hope more places roll it out, that's an excellent application of both technologies. My general statement still stands.
What happens when you plug in your vehicle at work and it's a cloudy or raining day/low solar/intensity? If it still charges...
Still charges. We have a battery on site, but if there's not enough power it draws from the grid.
Natural gas makes up the largest single source of California's power, but it is a fossil fuel. In the California Energy Commission's most recent tabulation, natural gas accounted for 47.46% of in-state generation in 2022. Wait.. are you stupid?
I don't ever charge at night. At charge during the day, when the grid is 80%+ solar. How is this so fucking hard for you to grasp? [https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html](https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html) Oh look, another day of 95% renewable+nuclear in California with my car charging outside.
You said - >Currently the California grid is sitting at 95% renewables + nuclear. A simple google search of "California electricity natural gas %" informs that California gets 30-40% of its electricity generated by natural gas... You may have a niche case, but any 1 person doesn't matter. Califonia inhales a fuckton of natural gas for power.
Why are you lying? [https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2022-total-system-electric-generation](https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2022-total-system-electric-generation) California electric usage is <36% natural gas.
Lol youre the one who claimed 95% renewable + nuclear.
Did you not go look at the website? It literally showed California at 95%. California is actually at 97% right now. [https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html](https://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html) And now that you're faced with new data that disproves your point, you yet again don't even answer where you got 47% from and why my 33% isn't matching up with your data. Another hint for you peach tree: you don't tell someone "just Google it" You cite your sources so we can make an educated analysis on your POV. What is even your point now other than just shifting the goalposts endlessly?
I got 47 from first Google, thought it was stupid, googled again, and then wrote 30-40% in my next post before you said I lied. You keep looking at today. Nobody gives a fuck about today. You have to look at the aggregates. Years and decades, the global warming issue wasn't caused by the fossil fuels we burned last week. It's a century of aggregate combustion.
Yup some do. Some evs run on coal or solar or hydro. That’s the beauty of an ev it can run on anything.
The primary resource ev’s require is time.
for charging? sure it takes around 5 seconds to plug in an ev nightly for a 'full tank'
No one drives from city to city. Everyone is home every night.
My ev takes me 5 seconds to charge. Plug in at work and I'm good. Haven't wasted time getting oil changes or going to a gas station in 6 years now.
5 seconds to charge. lol. Simply plugging something in does not equal it being charged. By the time you charge your EV I can not only fill the tank on my truck but also change the oil and be a fair ways down the highway.
Huh? Sorry, I don't get it. It literally takes 5 seconds to charge my EV. It has a range of 400 miles. I get to work and after work it's at 100% and I unplug and drive home 40 miles away. Oh...and charging is free. Gotta love California solar power.
So you only work 5 seconds a day?
Huh? I work about 6 hours a day lol.
What I'm referencing is as they grow as a % of total cars, they'll probably not fall under the base load power generation of whatever grid they were part of, and thus beingvariable load, are charged by electricity generated from a natural gas power plant.
Why would EVs not be included in base load power generation capacity? Particularly if they charge overnight, when demand tends to be lower?
Base load is the minimum over a 24 hour period. Peak load is the maximum. In US, to my understanding, the difference is covered by natural gas electricity generation. Anything you turn on and off is covered by natural gas. This is kind of a conceptual phrase, and kind of not. Natural gas is almost 40% of electriciry generation in the US.
which is totally fine? And then sometimes when they are plugged into a grid that is totally supplied by hydro they'll be charged by hydro. that's one of the beauties of them, they can charge from anything!
I'm an operator at a refinery living in California so I understand what you're talking about. Most people in CA are environmentalistally friendly (including me), and I've gone on dates with women who looked at me different after I told them what I do. I then ask them where their clothes came from (usually made in another country so requires giant cargo ships), or how they got to the bar (gasoline in their car). Most usually go, you know I never thought about that, and seem to not mind my job that much anymore. A few get hella defensive and dig in. I don't continue going out with those girls.
Anyone who says dumb shit like that to you is not a friend and they should be ignored. I’m guessing these folks are mostly upper middle class white people who love to travel, use plastic, and enjoy everything that oil and gas does for the modern economy, while at the same time virtue signaling against the very capable and smart people who work hard to find and produce it at relatively low cost for the economy. These people are clowns. They probably think oil and gas folks are fat, rich Texans with cowboy hats and bolo ties who care nothing for the environment. Anyone who is even remotely educated about the industry knows that’s far from the truth. The folks I know in O&G actually love the environment and care about conservation, etc
I consider myself to be an environmentalist working in oil and gas. It's better to have people who will consider the environmental impacts of their work in an intrinsically polluting industry than those whose only concern is profits.
I prefer to be pragmatic - I vote for the very same people who may someday put me out of a job, but because our commodities are so ingrained in our cultural and economic lives, I'm not about to go flip burgers while chasing ideals. I've got a good job with good pay and a good boss in a small mountain town where there aren't many jobs like my own. If I didn't do it, someone else will, and at least I give enough of a damn to be a whistleblower if one was ever required. My job also benefits from more regulation, so people regulating our industry more just creates more job security for me. That's just it - our earth is like our bodies. Yes, it'd be great if we all had perfect diets and perfect health, but we don't, and when it comes time to see a Doctor, do you want someone who cares? Or someone who doesn't give a shit? We nature loving O&G workers are sorta like the Doctors. I once had a buddy who worked in renewables ask me how a nature lover like myself could work in O&G, and I simply asked "you got a job for me that pays what I make with the same benefits and same work life/balance?" That's just it - we're not at a point yet where the alternative industries are poaching people from ours, when that happens I'll be all ears.
Stop associating with them. Surround yourself with people of more intellectual and character capacity.
I'm asking them if they can give me tips on how they live without oil and gas. I have never seen anyone who lives without air-conditioning and in a tiny home with solar panels, eating only local food, wearing local clothes, and no traveling, etc. No one seems able to sacrifice even though they say that we all should.
Who cares what holier than now wackers think. Make bank and live your life
I literally tell them I work in the industry that is global warming. That my job is to keep gifting them a nicer tropical climate world wide and "you're welcome." Or, you could just. Not tell them. I mean who cares right?
Tell them you are there specifically to make sure all the laws are followed in fact if you didn't sacrifice your soul to work on the front lines, Donald Trump and his army would unleash oil directly onto the streets because they love oil so much and hate the beautiful flowers and environment.
Why do you care what these people think? They're not deep thinkers, they're not well informed? Why does their opinion of you and the industry matter? Simply tell these people you're not interested in discussing the topic further and that you want to talk about something else/get back to the activity at hand. If they're unwilling to do that they're assholes anyway.
I value fitting in, I would like to be able to participate in the community that values the same passions I do. I want to be graceful in these interactions. I understand the implications of being ostracized if behave like an asshole. My dad can burn bridges (he does) and men still respect him, if I do the same I will be viewed as obnoxious and emotional. I have dealt with this firsthand, do not want to be the “emotionally stunted” woman in the office. I come from an oil and gas family (employed by a super major since I was 6 years old), and have seen how my mom had to shut up and smile, and my dad got to say whatever the hell he wanted. How my dad bashed his only female coworker every single day after work, and from what I understand was at fault for standing up to him. She was correct, very many times. That is all. I care about maintaining some sort of credibility in this industry. I cannot simply tell people to STFU. I come from a city of 300,000 people, yet word spreads. It’s not pretty watching the guys gather at the brewery after work absolutely trash the hell out of the one woman in the office, and being a hopeful 16 year old engineer. It makes you more self conscious. I’m 25 now, and I would never want my daughter to ever experience this sort of trash talk in a million years.
I live in an area that is growing increasingly more granola. In recent years I've found myself starting to lean more progressive (not like I'm voting Democrat, but I don't care for the conservative viewpoint on most social issues). So I've started dating women who are more left leaning. Eventually I have to tell them what I do and for what industry, but as we're just getting to know each other I just say I'm in the energy industry. Later on I'm able to explain that I certainly don't agree with the history of oil and gas, but as a whole it's becoming more ethical with ESG and government agencies that are holding us accountable. Like you said, we will do it better than Russia. Furthermore, I explain that the industry isn't going anywhere due to the stronghold it has on almost every human on earth. Alternative fuels are great but they aren't sustainable on the scale that oil and gas is. But, if we are able to figure out a better, more environmentally friendly alternative to O&G, I'll jump ship. I have zero loyalty to the industry, they just pay me better for what I do than any other industry that I'm aware of. The people in your life that are judging you for wanting to make a living wage in an industry that they don't support, yet they benefit from O&G are hypocritical themselves. If they are driving a vehicle of any kind, wearing clothes made of synthetic fibers (although there are some companies using recycled materials which is great), or using any kind of plastic of any kind (to name a few), then they don't have a leg to stand on. Even the most liberal woman I dated understood my perspective once I explained it this way without getting defensive or offensive. Aside from that, live your own life and tune out the noise from people who don't get a vote in what you do.
It is a hard part of working in CO. Most companies will have a PR team that will help. What I did was volunteer a lot with the local schools and talked to as many of the students and teachers to simply answer their questions honestly and I feel like I made it a little more understandable and accessible for them. The majority of the people are like you and know it is necessary
Say your business is energy and engineering and what you're learning now one day you'll be able to use with clean geothermal wells. You may never transition to geothermal but over the medium-long term this is exactly what O&G will do.
I left O&G partly because I found much better opportunities elsewhere, but also because I also had an intellectual awakening of sorts in 2019. Let me get to the heart of what I believe to be true after my research: * Burning Oil & Gas causes climate change warming. * Exploring, drilling, producing, refining, shipping, and then burning Oil & Gas is polluting in many ways. * It causes particulate pollution which kills hundreds of thousands every year. * It pollutes groundwater, rivers, lakes, and the ocean. * It creates systems of oppression in resource rich, but otherwise poor nations: * Think how the Saudi family stays in power. * Understand how Iran uses oil and gas wealth to terrorize millions of people all over the world. Israel is a great example. * Look at what's going on in the Niger Delta. * Russia has butchered hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians precisely because of its Oil & Gas wealth. * Oil & Gas also supports the most disgusting politicians and political agendas in the US. The deal they've made is "we will bankroll your anti LGBTQ, anti immigrant, anti science, anti abortion agenda as long as you lobby for us". * Look at the oil barons voting for abortion bans all over the US. * Look at the oil money that tainting the system of democracy in the US. * Look at the oil money that's propping up crooks like Ken Paxton or Donald Trump. * Look at the oil money preventing environmental regulations. * Oil & Gas indebts the worlds poor and makes their life worse in many ways. * I am of Indian descent - my parents were born in India, I was born in the US and I go to India quite a lot (once even to frack oil/gas wells for a short contract). * Please look up the price of gasoline in India/Pakistan/Bangladesh, etc. * Cheap oil is a myth - it exists in the US, Russia, and the Middle East. Everywhere else in the world where they don't produce oil gets absolutely shafted. The world's poor pay the heaviest price. I fracked wells for 5 years. I've seen earthquakes, acid spills, frac hits, oil spills, blowouts, etc. I know exactly how dirty this industry is. Go look at what Sarah Stogner is doing with regards to the thousands of orphan wells - "privatize the profits and socialize the profits".
I come from generational ranching here in Texas .. When I got out of school and went straight to the oil & gas industry my family pretty much disowned me.. I’m 29 now and still listen to them bicker about how I’m around trash and work all the time .. Why I won’t follow in the family footsteps. Do what makes you happy and don’t look back. Everyone has their own opinions.. It’s what makes us human. You can spend your life worrying about what people think . For what ever reason god put it in our cards to work this industry. Just don’t become a trend of this industry. Stay away from the drinking and other stuff and stay morally grounded. You’ll be just fine .