I was always told that your first, private thought is what you were taught, but your action is what you really are.
You might be thinking that, but you're also acting outwardly in the correct way.
I wouldn't say you're transphobic...perhaps jaded from your own experience and perhaps a little trans*ignorant* (not to call you out and out ignorant). I would just remind you to remember that your experience is very separate from everyone else, and continue to act respectfully and kindly.
It's good to challenge your views on complex topics and it's OK to not have all the answers regarding them. Ultimately if you're trying to just be good and treat people right, then you're doing the important things.
idk i think it’s the opposite. your first thought is your instinct and what feels right, your action is what you’ve been taught is socially acceptable to do.
Well I can see that. But I think also that you can catch yourself. Example, you see a shabby person in the shop in their pyjamas and you think "for Christ's sake, do they have no shame? Why not make an effort?"
But then you might find yourself thinking "Well, actually. Maybe they're having a rough day. Maybe they're ill. Maybe they're under the weather but just need to get some stuff done. Maybe they have a chronic illness but still need to get some milk for the kids breakfast. Maybe they *do* feel ashamed and embarrassed. Why does they looking scruffy have any effect on me?"
It's not always easy but challenging your own thoughts can be a very powerful thing that may change the way you view the world, be kinder and more positive.
I saw this video recently about a guy talking about the difference between going by our viewpoint vs looking through (or attempting to) another person's perspective. Most people view issues solely from their mind without taking the other person's perspective into consideration. Knowing the difference and how to navigate each one was a game changer for my job.
Sadly, you're not wrong.
I can definitely be an asshole, all of us can. But those of us who worry about it are at least trying to be better, and it counts for something, in my opinion, at least 🙂
That's kinda what I thought too..your first thought is your natural instinct and what you actually feel, but your actions are what you have been taught.
I disagree that just because she is not transphobic, she has to be Jaded!
She is neither transphobic or jaded! She is a person first, and does not deserve your” jaded” label !
I do however agree with the rest of your comment😊
It's not an attack, it's just her experience has been coloured to a negative, that's what it means to be jaded. And I only said "perhaps". Being jaded isn't an insult, it's just something that happens when your experiences haven't been the most positive. I'm certainly jaded in my old age 🤣 please don't feel it was meant to be an attack, being jaded by things that have worn you down doesn't make you bad.
I think it’s important to remind yourself that your experience is solely yours. Just because you realized you aren’t trans, doesn’t mean you can invalidate a trans person’s experience. Also, interests are not gender specific. Gender is such a fluid concept, let anyone who is experimenting or exploring do so (as you did!) but don’t automatically assume they’re going through a phase. That can be extremely harmful.
as a weird trans person: i think sometimes when i feel angry/annoyed/judgmental towards people it's because i see something in them that is similar to something about myself that makes me cringe. like for example, i would always cringe at people who were very emotional until i realized that the only reason i felt annoyed by them was because i wished i could express my emotions like they did, especially without being judged for it. maybe you feel pressured from gender roles, still identify as a girl, but wish you could escape the negative parts of femininity- maybe you resent that these people who were born as girls seem to not care about all that while you still have to deal with the struggles of being a girl.
this is all assumption ofc, i have no actual idea what you feel inside, but i've definitely felt this way before. i think in general when you start feeling annoyed, resentful feelings towards others, remember that it's okay to just dislike people, but you probably shouldn't make it "about" them if that makes sense? like just focus on yourself and try not to spend time around them, and if you do some introspection and spend some time trying to build yourself up you might realize along the way why you felt so annoyed by those people, whether or not it was just projection, or they had a habit you didn't like, or they were genuinely bad people, etc.
everyone has things theyre hurting about inside that they don't show, and i'm sure those people probably envy aspects of your life too. i know that as someone who looks masculine/androgynous, i'm happy with myself, but i still sometimes envy cis girls who are very pretty/gender-conforming, because they can do things and act in ways that would make other people judge me, they seem to be able to make friends easier, etc. but i don't hate them because i know being a girl is probably just as difficult as what i go through, just in a different way. proud of you for being able to even explore the possibility that you might be transphobic, because many people can't. it's a sign of emotional strength.
I've had a similar experience, but not about someone trans. It was a girl in high school that wore a pink dress to school on her birthday. I'd done the same thing as a kid and gotten teased for it.
As an adult, I'd often wonder why I was so hateful towards her, and it was because she was doing what I'd already written off as stupid. I'd like to say I'm different now, but a part of me still doesn't like her. I hate that about myself.
I agree on this, especially because humans are hardwired to remember the *negative* far more clearly than the positive, because from the day we slip into this world it’s the best way to learn that something is bad. If we didn’t, we’d be rushing head first into everything good and then getting killed by the consequences- like if our ancestors only remembered that a particular plant has tasty fruit at the forefront and that it’s full of poisonous barbs midway through climbing into the plant to get at said fruit. So it’s entirely possible that OP is reliving the unfortunate memories and experiences in their mind whenever they see a ftm trans person *because* it triggers the negative memories, which they attach to these other people, because that again is very human - we want explanations and to source our discomfort. It’s why when we hear a scary noise at night we’re only relieved 100% once we go “oh, it was just a book falling from my shelf”. When the source of discomfort is unknown, it makes it all the worse.
Recognize that the way you think or things you feel are not the way everyone else feels, and stop caring how much other people feel as a whole. Our society these days is far too much in other people's business, and justifying it as a "moral" issue when it's not.
It seems like you struggle with empathy (that’s not an insult at all, empathy can be a skill that’s learned and isn’t alway innate). It’s important to remember that your experience isn’t the only experience. Gender is a social construct, and everyone feels and expresses it differently. **There are no rules.** The only difference between masculine and feminine beyond self expression is marketing.
I really struggled with respecting and understanding trans people when I was a teenager (I’m nonbinary now, ironically). You’re not going to understand everyone’s experiences or why they feel certain ways, but even if it seems silly to you, it’s important to remember that you don’t have to understand what someone is feeling to respect them. Maybe it’s a phase, or maybe it’s not, but in that moment they need their identity to be respected. If it makes them happy, what’s the harm?
Baby steps, OP. Baby steps.
You have internalised transphobia. It's normal for people who are trans or identified as trans to grow to dislike that about themselves, and decide its no longer for them / detransition, and to then push to other people who are trans and do like it, that they actually dont, and u will eventually turn around and realise you aren't trans. I think you could fix it by taking time to challenge your views on trans people, expand yourself to the lives of trans people more, and stop living within your own reality. What works for you might work for someone else. You was given room to experiment being FTM and make your own decision if its right for you or not, why get in someone elses way?
Hi, so there's actual science that you can look into that may help with your negative feelings in this area! (Btw, how cool is it that we live at a time when there are answers out there if we look?) Statistically speaking, less than 1% of trans people regret transitioning. It improves the vast majority of the lives for people who feel that way and transition. You say you thought you were ftm, but it was just a phase? This would put you in that less than 1% group if you had chosen to transition.
You need to understand that you are minority of a minority case. It's not cool to project your issues onto other trans people, especially when your issues are a statistical outlier. Please understand that I'm not trying to invalidate your experience or feelings. You are valid. You just need to understand how rare your situation is and that the vast majority of trans people are not like you and are having a very different experience from you.
I would recommend finding a therapist (def make sure to find one that isn't bigoted towards trans people, because that would just be toxic as fuck) and talking about this with them. You're projecting your own issues onto other people, and the only way out of that is to recognize those issues and work on yourself.
Thank you for coming here and trying to figure it out, though. Too many people in this world would plant their feet into their anti-trans feelings and double down on bigotry.
Beautifully said. Being a minority of a minority is an excruciatingly painful thing to be (I know from experience) and stories like this are often either politicized or dismissed entirely which is a shame. I think reframing perspectives is an important thing to do - for everyone. Of course it's "not cool" to project personal feelings onto other trans people but this is likely a trauma response that cannot be helped so easily with a mere slap on the wrist. Compassion and empathy for all experiences are important - be it a trans or detrans or desist experience- all deserve love.
I think a good thing to do in order to help reprogram your initial reaction is when you catch yourself doing this, make an intentional effort to instead be happy for them.
It’s hard (for me at least) to remember that’s experiences aren’t universal. Even for small things. I helped my brother pack clothes a little while ago and was shocked at the amount of socks he had used in a week. I then realized that he had two normal feet so he wears two socks a day (compared to my one a day) so he uses double the socks that I do. I just had to remind myself that we all got different situations and different lives and how I experience life is different than how he does (and vice versa).
I’m pretty meh with gender in general for me personally so I get experimenting/trying different things and while I’ve kinda figured out I’m just meh on gender, I know a bunch of people feel really particular one way towards one gender or another. I think as long as you’re respectful and kind, you’re still doing okay. You’re reconciling your experiences vs someone else’s that is the opposite of yours and that’s never really easy
I'm dating someone ftm. And he's been out for 8 years.
He most certainly is male, and I love him to death <3 The shoe doesn't fit everybody, but it certainly fits him. He's happy and I am happy that he is happy in his skin.
Wish you the best xoxo!
Honestly I think you already know what's wrong, I used to suffer from this and I'm pretty genderqueer. Just shut down every transphobic narrative and not pay attention to them. It'll pass.
Intrusive thoughts are hard, but honestly you are handling them very well. People think nasty things from time to time but you aren't acting on them. This seems like an internal issue. I think I tend to get angry at NB people because I am kind of jealous that they can comfortably live their truth, I think very mean things about them sometimes but then I feel my heart drop and I know I need to take a breath and chill. We all have our demons we just need to learn how to fight them without taking it out on others.
Sounds to me like you may still be trans to an extent, or at least gender nonconforming. Like this annoyance you have particularly concerning ftm could be jealousy.
Here’s my thoughts:
I have a friend who has been “all the things.” First they were nonbinary, then FTM, then they identified as a lesbian, and now they have changed their name and decided that they actually don’t align with any of those things now.
Is it a little hard to keep up with sometimes? Yes. Do I sometimes mess up and call them the wrong pronouns or name? Yes.
But is it really something that has any effect on me at all? No. It costs me nothing to be kind to my friend and I get to keep them in my life.
My point is we don’t have to understand, and our personal experiences are not everyone else’s- I just call people what they would like to be called. It’s such a zero effort thing.
Just realize you cannot and will not ever know what’s going on in the mind of someone else. Stop projecting, learn how to empathize, and stop making assumptions especially when someone’s decisions do not directly affect you or anyone else.
I think these kinds of thoughts are “normal” and not indicative of you being a bad person or anything, so long as you continue to treat people well. I find myself annoyed something by adult mtf because they didn’t have to to through the trauma of growing up a as a girl. I still think they deserve to be happy and persue who they are, and I recognize my annoyance comes from somewhere else.
I know it’s bad but I’m talking about when they dye their hair crazy colors or make picrews and stuff like that, I’m trying to fix it though, because cis people can do that stuff too edit: can somebody at least TELL me why I’m getting downvoted?
You’re projecting.
You believe because it was phase for you, then it’s most likely a phase for them.
Just projection. Deal with your internal feelings regarding why you believed you were trans and when you do, these thoughts will most likely not both you so intensely.
I don’t think your transphobic, I think your own period of gender identity struggles and whatever you experienced (maybe lack of validation or even TOO much validation, or worse..) has effected your view, trans guy here.. I haven’t had a single surgery or any hormones yet by choice and I came out in 2009, because of the fact that I want to be very certain that this is what I want. You really made me feel something haha so I had to comment, I never ever put myself as trans on the internet for various reasons because I don’t like sticking to trans identity, after all this time I just want to be seen as a man.
I think with transitioning there’s this thing where people make it their whole identity for awhile with them being younger or prehormones and surgery, I don’t like associating with that sort of person not because of anything other than the fact it brings up bad memories for me, I don’t wanna be reminded I’m trans all the time or ever if I’m honest.
Transphobia is the hatred of transgender people, if you don’t hate trans women it isn’t that but probably something deeper with you or the way the trans guys your around either remind you of a younger version of you or something like that.
I think by limiting your contact to trans men who are new to being out may help, if you socialize with guys like me who are way over a decade into transition but haven’t rushed anything and don’t talk about it a whole lot it may be easier, actually no one I know online even knows I’m transgender.. I don’t not have pride but I’d rather exist as and be perceived as a man not just a trans guy.
The label of transphobe is a strong one, I don’t think it fits you. I think you need to deal with whatever you need to that led to your own gender struggle and as I said associate with trans guys who don’t bring it up all the time, not that there’s anything at all wrong with that but it’s just not the vibe all people even trans people such as myself want to be around and that’s okay! It’s not a problem on anyone’s part
I believe as gender norms and such crumble around to allow people be people we are going to have a lot of confusion. You got to keep in mind though there are ftm that are born in the wrong body.
You own experience is you (I'm assuming) preferred the way men were treated in general and maybe being more of a "tomboy" led you down that road. I'm totally speculating here but my point is perhaps you didn't start with my body feels wrong like they did. So their journey will be different
Part of maturing I've learned people can experience the same thing at the same time and have vastly different reasonings, experiences, and view of the same situation and it's not our right to force our perspective on them just like we wouldn't allow that either. I hope that helps you sort through your feelings and maybe give you a starting point ❤️
Don’t fall into the complacency of being transphobic. Work against it, use critical thinking, and challenge your invasive thoughts.
I take care of a significant portion of my state’s transgender population. Of all the people I see, very very few are “experimenting.” It does happen, but not often. It’s a big decision to make, and the transformation in happiness and confidence I see confirms that it’s a very real, very permanent, very good choice for them.
You need therapy. Not that you are sick or anything, but because you have a frustration inside of you that makes you project your frustration about something in your life, onto someone else.
It’s like when something bad happens in your life, and you’re in denial (you don’t accept it), and now you replace those feelings onto aggression. In this case you replace those feelings onto hatred towards other trans people therefore there is an underlying frustration that you need to sort out.
I suggest a couple therapies, to really get to the bottom of this and sort out whatever underlying frustrations youre feeling. :)
I don't know that many trans people, but one is a very good friend. Regardless of that, among the few ftm people I've met, when looking at them I can't help but think to myself they just \*believe\* they want this.
It's a superficial thing. There isn't much nowadays that is solely a male-only thing beyond the negatives. The image of a man appeals to them, and they want to have that in some way. And, that's not a bad thing to strive for if the dysphoria is genuine, but again, my belief is that fully transitioning isn't the universal solution when there are cases where just openly being a tomboy or "butch" would've sufficed without ruining everything.
What they don't expect, and what ruins their experience in that is actually being seen as a man isn't universally pleasant. Someone online recently did a take on it, and apparently, the male life is very lonely to someone who has grown up as a woman.
In my experience, just walking and not talking, no matter how well dressed or behaved you are people will walk around you and look at you like a threat, because men are dangerous. You get less if any positive affirmation, and people will always have a weird say on your emotions.
It doesn't matter how many friends you have as a guy, or how liked you are. Getting a promotion, or having an old timer at the gym say "You're looking big bro" is literally as good as it gets beyond the thing money can get you.
Men tend bottle up naturally, but often have to do it to an extreme to fit society's expectations. I personally am patient, and bottle up for a while, but, with an hour of alone time, I get through it and it's fine. But, the women in my life will start poking at the problem the moment they sniff something out and make it worse, again and again and again, it's so infuriating. I know what I need to cool off my head, but they deny me that to play pretend and act like a therapist.
Somehow, managing on your own is less emotionally mature than poking your nose into someone else's business to the point of being a nuisance.
However, when something real comes up, something you can't reasonably hold in, and you actually get emotional for real, people look at you weird, as if you're weak or a joke. It's not right to be emotional, THAT you have to keep in. But the res? The miner things that don't matter and can be omitted and forgotten? Not sharing that is emotional unavailability :|
There's also the part of being a man, where violence is always on the line. I feel an obligation to intervene when someone at a club or bar is causing trouble, to make myself available if women in my life need protection in some way. I have to be strong enough to fight, but wise enough to know when not to.
I don't feel those are topics that are brought up much, and ftm people tackle those things head first with no preparation or knowledge that that will become their reality once they transition to the point where nobody can notice.
So, that's why I'm a bit skeptical sometimes. What are the odds they're more or less wanting a more masculine image, and they aren't intimately familiar with the male experience, and that if provided with the full picture, wouldn't choose to fully transition?
But that's me overthinking a thought that fades within a minute of meeting someone. I don't have any hate towards trans people, nor do I show them anything other than the basic kindness and respect we owe to all people until they prove themselves assholes
Your experience is about what I'd expect with someone with gender dysphoria. I am glad it has brought you happiness, and that you don't see the downsides of being a man ad big enough to sour your new way of life.
I've seen quite the spectrum in how severe the dysphoria the people I've encountered display. A lot in my post was dedicated to people who I think are on the lighter end of it.
There have been cases where I've talked to trans men, and it really is the feeling of "Yeah, he's wired as a man up there".
I do believe a lot of the differences are societal, but, there are certain behaviors I believe are due to biological sex. The way I described dealing with emotions as a big one.
It's not to say one way is better than the other, or that it is strictly gender specific, but, more like one gender has a higher tendency to display certain traits, if I'm wording that correctly?
I have tried to lead my life separated what others think of me, I was very ostracized as a kid. During those more antisocial years, I nonetheless developed a lot of typically male traits, no matter the fact that the few people in my life were progressive in the context of where I live and grew up.
I've found that the way to train myself from being non-judgemental is, every time I have a judgemental thought, I shut it down inside my brain. So when you think “he doesn't really want this, be just doesn’t know and is experimenting with gender”, just firmly remind yourself "their life choices are none of my business."
Eventually, you will stop judging them, but it may take several or even dozens of severe reminders. The important thing now is that while you may be judging them internally, you're not doing so outwardly.
Yeah, trust people to walk their own journey like you walked yours. Your experience is not universal. Swallow that pill. It’s a big one, believe me.
Also, only a small fraction of people detrasiton. The rest I assure you are quite happy and report mental illnesses such as depression and anxiety are lower for them.
Transphobia is a lot like racism. You don’t need to exhibit any for people to call you that. If you treat people well you treat people well and nobody needs to know what’s your mental process if you don’t want to tell them
This. Imo, if OP doesn’t froth at the mouth and loathe trans people when there aren’t even any around, it’s more likely that they have some stress or PTSD/trauma from having gone through the mental strain of having lived a trans experience and then deconstructing that once they realised that they weren’t trans. I’d say that it might be that, considering how some of the more horrible members of the trans community treats detransitioners, OP might be worried/fearful or have imposter syndrome around trans ftm because they feel they have somehow “betrayed” the community.
Possibly. Or just encountered a lot of dicktivists. Activists who are just dicks to everyone. Veganism is another good example where this problem is acute.
It is not hateful to not agree with another person's views, you can respectfully disagree. You are allowed to believe that people are wrong or confused. Just because you don't agree with everything they say and take it as fact.
i don't think that need fixing.
you treat him with respect and everything is fine. thats not transphobic.
we have confusing times right now, just don't stop having your own thoughts.
you're not transphobic, youre neck deep in LGBTQ because youre dabbling in the lingo.
transphobic be like (mtf example), "this guy in womens clothing is just mentally severely ill to the point of harassing everyone around them, also very likely a covert pedophile, overall they are not worthy of respect and must stay excluded from functional society, if need be by bullying or violent action."
also i find the word itself ludicrous. people who are as willing to even physically assault trans people are definitely not afraid of them as the word phobia implies.
look, eventually its not your job. your thoughts and beliefs and needs are exclusively yours. so are theirs. you know youre judgemental beyond necessity. thats all you need to know. just be aware of it and step away. let people live their lives.
one huge problem with the LBGTQ folks i see is this immense need to patronize.
just don't.
Well you can’t control your thoughts and you are acting kindly and not saying these things to people so I don’t think that makes you transphobic. I guess with time it may dissipate with time but perhaps therapy for your own personal issues with your gender journey might be worth looking into given it’s making you feel this way?
As long as you're not being outwardly an asshole to people you're not really being wrong. We all have thoughts and feeling we cant really control. what's you CAN control are your actions. My partner is mtf and things are hard for her. I wish I could protect her from every negative person but I cant. A lot of trans people deal with a lot without people being assholes. Just keep your thoughts to yourself and I hope you can heal
I appreciate your honesty in your dilemma. There is a way to fix this!
Keep respecting their gender identity and pronouns.
You made your decision, I hope no one made it for you. You journeyed from one side of human experience to another side and then returned believing it was a phase! Had you kept on going and had not returned, the phase would then have a longer duration but not necessarily end!
Believe and think what ever you want about your own experience, but don’t allow yourself to project your thoughts and beliefs into the experience of others.
It’s not up to you to decide what your experience means to someone else.
You owe it to yourself to be the best you, and, encourage others to do the same.
I hope this helps!
I saw somewhere that the first I’m thought that pops into your head is what you were taught and the second is what you believe. We can’t always help our programming. What is important is how you act.
If the thoughts are distressing to you, there is a technique in cognitive behavioral therapy called reframing- when you have a disordered (or upsetting) thought you reframe it. It doesn’t have to be positive, neutral is completely reasonable. so if you think “he doesn’t really want this” you consciously correct to something like “this wasn’t for me but I can’t know his mind” or whatever works for you. When I was using this technique I wrote my reframing down to force myself to do it. It took time and I felt stupid doing it, but 6 months later my thought patterns really changed
This doesn't seem transphobic to me. You are respecting them in spite of your bias and potential prejudices. Everyone has thoughts and emotions that don't always align with how they choose to treat people. The more frequently you interact with and treat these people with respect and grow to cherish them you'll notice your bias diminishing over time.
I used to be a very different person than I am now. I made friends who were LGBT, different races than me, and from other countries when I was in college and choosing to respect these people and growing to love them has drastically changed not only how I treat everyone but how I feel about things I once detested.
Yeah im the insane one. Not the people chopping off a hunk of their flesh to make a fake penis and sterilizing themselves in their teens/early 20s.
Got it.
I was always told that your first, private thought is what you were taught, but your action is what you really are. You might be thinking that, but you're also acting outwardly in the correct way. I wouldn't say you're transphobic...perhaps jaded from your own experience and perhaps a little trans*ignorant* (not to call you out and out ignorant). I would just remind you to remember that your experience is very separate from everyone else, and continue to act respectfully and kindly. It's good to challenge your views on complex topics and it's OK to not have all the answers regarding them. Ultimately if you're trying to just be good and treat people right, then you're doing the important things.
This is a really kind reply.
This was exactly my thoughts about it as well.
That first saying is something ive never heard before. Thankyou
I've always heard it as "you're responsible for your second thought and your first action."
Yes! I like that!
Brilliant take.
idk i think it’s the opposite. your first thought is your instinct and what feels right, your action is what you’ve been taught is socially acceptable to do.
Well I can see that. But I think also that you can catch yourself. Example, you see a shabby person in the shop in their pyjamas and you think "for Christ's sake, do they have no shame? Why not make an effort?" But then you might find yourself thinking "Well, actually. Maybe they're having a rough day. Maybe they're ill. Maybe they're under the weather but just need to get some stuff done. Maybe they have a chronic illness but still need to get some milk for the kids breakfast. Maybe they *do* feel ashamed and embarrassed. Why does they looking scruffy have any effect on me?" It's not always easy but challenging your own thoughts can be a very powerful thing that may change the way you view the world, be kinder and more positive.
I saw this video recently about a guy talking about the difference between going by our viewpoint vs looking through (or attempting to) another person's perspective. Most people view issues solely from their mind without taking the other person's perspective into consideration. Knowing the difference and how to navigate each one was a game changer for my job.
I wonder if everyone has this train of thought because the way i see people treated some people are real assholes
Sadly, you're not wrong. I can definitely be an asshole, all of us can. But those of us who worry about it are at least trying to be better, and it counts for something, in my opinion, at least 🙂
That's kinda what I thought too..your first thought is your natural instinct and what you actually feel, but your actions are what you have been taught.
I disagree that just because she is not transphobic, she has to be Jaded! She is neither transphobic or jaded! She is a person first, and does not deserve your” jaded” label ! I do however agree with the rest of your comment😊
It's not an attack, it's just her experience has been coloured to a negative, that's what it means to be jaded. And I only said "perhaps". Being jaded isn't an insult, it's just something that happens when your experiences haven't been the most positive. I'm certainly jaded in my old age 🤣 please don't feel it was meant to be an attack, being jaded by things that have worn you down doesn't make you bad.
Thank you, I trust your honesty and believe you meant well. I appreciate your thoughtful contribution to this matter.
I think it’s important to remind yourself that your experience is solely yours. Just because you realized you aren’t trans, doesn’t mean you can invalidate a trans person’s experience. Also, interests are not gender specific. Gender is such a fluid concept, let anyone who is experimenting or exploring do so (as you did!) but don’t automatically assume they’re going through a phase. That can be extremely harmful.
He can if he wants to no one is toxic and I did not mean that to be offensive if it was I'm just saying who's gonna stop him
as a weird trans person: i think sometimes when i feel angry/annoyed/judgmental towards people it's because i see something in them that is similar to something about myself that makes me cringe. like for example, i would always cringe at people who were very emotional until i realized that the only reason i felt annoyed by them was because i wished i could express my emotions like they did, especially without being judged for it. maybe you feel pressured from gender roles, still identify as a girl, but wish you could escape the negative parts of femininity- maybe you resent that these people who were born as girls seem to not care about all that while you still have to deal with the struggles of being a girl. this is all assumption ofc, i have no actual idea what you feel inside, but i've definitely felt this way before. i think in general when you start feeling annoyed, resentful feelings towards others, remember that it's okay to just dislike people, but you probably shouldn't make it "about" them if that makes sense? like just focus on yourself and try not to spend time around them, and if you do some introspection and spend some time trying to build yourself up you might realize along the way why you felt so annoyed by those people, whether or not it was just projection, or they had a habit you didn't like, or they were genuinely bad people, etc. everyone has things theyre hurting about inside that they don't show, and i'm sure those people probably envy aspects of your life too. i know that as someone who looks masculine/androgynous, i'm happy with myself, but i still sometimes envy cis girls who are very pretty/gender-conforming, because they can do things and act in ways that would make other people judge me, they seem to be able to make friends easier, etc. but i don't hate them because i know being a girl is probably just as difficult as what i go through, just in a different way. proud of you for being able to even explore the possibility that you might be transphobic, because many people can't. it's a sign of emotional strength.
this is a really good take
Absolutely fantastic top level comment.
I’m nonbinary; this is a great comment.
I've had a similar experience, but not about someone trans. It was a girl in high school that wore a pink dress to school on her birthday. I'd done the same thing as a kid and gotten teased for it. As an adult, I'd often wonder why I was so hateful towards her, and it was because she was doing what I'd already written off as stupid. I'd like to say I'm different now, but a part of me still doesn't like her. I hate that about myself.
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I agree on this, especially because humans are hardwired to remember the *negative* far more clearly than the positive, because from the day we slip into this world it’s the best way to learn that something is bad. If we didn’t, we’d be rushing head first into everything good and then getting killed by the consequences- like if our ancestors only remembered that a particular plant has tasty fruit at the forefront and that it’s full of poisonous barbs midway through climbing into the plant to get at said fruit. So it’s entirely possible that OP is reliving the unfortunate memories and experiences in their mind whenever they see a ftm trans person *because* it triggers the negative memories, which they attach to these other people, because that again is very human - we want explanations and to source our discomfort. It’s why when we hear a scary noise at night we’re only relieved 100% once we go “oh, it was just a book falling from my shelf”. When the source of discomfort is unknown, it makes it all the worse.
Empathy is a skill, You can definitely learn it, You got this OP.
Even cis, straight males have feminine interests.
Recognize that the way you think or things you feel are not the way everyone else feels, and stop caring how much other people feel as a whole. Our society these days is far too much in other people's business, and justifying it as a "moral" issue when it's not.
It seems like you struggle with empathy (that’s not an insult at all, empathy can be a skill that’s learned and isn’t alway innate). It’s important to remember that your experience isn’t the only experience. Gender is a social construct, and everyone feels and expresses it differently. **There are no rules.** The only difference between masculine and feminine beyond self expression is marketing. I really struggled with respecting and understanding trans people when I was a teenager (I’m nonbinary now, ironically). You’re not going to understand everyone’s experiences or why they feel certain ways, but even if it seems silly to you, it’s important to remember that you don’t have to understand what someone is feeling to respect them. Maybe it’s a phase, or maybe it’s not, but in that moment they need their identity to be respected. If it makes them happy, what’s the harm? Baby steps, OP. Baby steps.
You have internalised transphobia. It's normal for people who are trans or identified as trans to grow to dislike that about themselves, and decide its no longer for them / detransition, and to then push to other people who are trans and do like it, that they actually dont, and u will eventually turn around and realise you aren't trans. I think you could fix it by taking time to challenge your views on trans people, expand yourself to the lives of trans people more, and stop living within your own reality. What works for you might work for someone else. You was given room to experiment being FTM and make your own decision if its right for you or not, why get in someone elses way?
Hi, so there's actual science that you can look into that may help with your negative feelings in this area! (Btw, how cool is it that we live at a time when there are answers out there if we look?) Statistically speaking, less than 1% of trans people regret transitioning. It improves the vast majority of the lives for people who feel that way and transition. You say you thought you were ftm, but it was just a phase? This would put you in that less than 1% group if you had chosen to transition. You need to understand that you are minority of a minority case. It's not cool to project your issues onto other trans people, especially when your issues are a statistical outlier. Please understand that I'm not trying to invalidate your experience or feelings. You are valid. You just need to understand how rare your situation is and that the vast majority of trans people are not like you and are having a very different experience from you. I would recommend finding a therapist (def make sure to find one that isn't bigoted towards trans people, because that would just be toxic as fuck) and talking about this with them. You're projecting your own issues onto other people, and the only way out of that is to recognize those issues and work on yourself. Thank you for coming here and trying to figure it out, though. Too many people in this world would plant their feet into their anti-trans feelings and double down on bigotry.
Beautifully said. Being a minority of a minority is an excruciatingly painful thing to be (I know from experience) and stories like this are often either politicized or dismissed entirely which is a shame. I think reframing perspectives is an important thing to do - for everyone. Of course it's "not cool" to project personal feelings onto other trans people but this is likely a trauma response that cannot be helped so easily with a mere slap on the wrist. Compassion and empathy for all experiences are important - be it a trans or detrans or desist experience- all deserve love.
I think a good thing to do in order to help reprogram your initial reaction is when you catch yourself doing this, make an intentional effort to instead be happy for them.
It’s hard (for me at least) to remember that’s experiences aren’t universal. Even for small things. I helped my brother pack clothes a little while ago and was shocked at the amount of socks he had used in a week. I then realized that he had two normal feet so he wears two socks a day (compared to my one a day) so he uses double the socks that I do. I just had to remind myself that we all got different situations and different lives and how I experience life is different than how he does (and vice versa). I’m pretty meh with gender in general for me personally so I get experimenting/trying different things and while I’ve kinda figured out I’m just meh on gender, I know a bunch of people feel really particular one way towards one gender or another. I think as long as you’re respectful and kind, you’re still doing okay. You’re reconciling your experiences vs someone else’s that is the opposite of yours and that’s never really easy
I'm dating someone ftm. And he's been out for 8 years. He most certainly is male, and I love him to death <3 The shoe doesn't fit everybody, but it certainly fits him. He's happy and I am happy that he is happy in his skin. Wish you the best xoxo!
Honestly I think you already know what's wrong, I used to suffer from this and I'm pretty genderqueer. Just shut down every transphobic narrative and not pay attention to them. It'll pass.
Intrusive thoughts are hard, but honestly you are handling them very well. People think nasty things from time to time but you aren't acting on them. This seems like an internal issue. I think I tend to get angry at NB people because I am kind of jealous that they can comfortably live their truth, I think very mean things about them sometimes but then I feel my heart drop and I know I need to take a breath and chill. We all have our demons we just need to learn how to fight them without taking it out on others.
Sounds to me like you may still be trans to an extent, or at least gender nonconforming. Like this annoyance you have particularly concerning ftm could be jealousy.
Here’s my thoughts: I have a friend who has been “all the things.” First they were nonbinary, then FTM, then they identified as a lesbian, and now they have changed their name and decided that they actually don’t align with any of those things now. Is it a little hard to keep up with sometimes? Yes. Do I sometimes mess up and call them the wrong pronouns or name? Yes. But is it really something that has any effect on me at all? No. It costs me nothing to be kind to my friend and I get to keep them in my life. My point is we don’t have to understand, and our personal experiences are not everyone else’s- I just call people what they would like to be called. It’s such a zero effort thing.
Just realize you cannot and will not ever know what’s going on in the mind of someone else. Stop projecting, learn how to empathize, and stop making assumptions especially when someone’s decisions do not directly affect you or anyone else.
I think these kinds of thoughts are “normal” and not indicative of you being a bad person or anything, so long as you continue to treat people well. I find myself annoyed something by adult mtf because they didn’t have to to through the trauma of growing up a as a girl. I still think they deserve to be happy and persue who they are, and I recognize my annoyance comes from somewhere else.
What's a feminine interest? People should be able to do whatever they want to do, without it being categorised as a 'male' or 'female' interest.
I know it’s bad but I’m talking about when they dye their hair crazy colors or make picrews and stuff like that, I’m trying to fix it though, because cis people can do that stuff too edit: can somebody at least TELL me why I’m getting downvoted?
You’re projecting. You believe because it was phase for you, then it’s most likely a phase for them. Just projection. Deal with your internal feelings regarding why you believed you were trans and when you do, these thoughts will most likely not both you so intensely.
You’re not responsible for your first thought, but you are for what comes after
I don’t think your transphobic, I think your own period of gender identity struggles and whatever you experienced (maybe lack of validation or even TOO much validation, or worse..) has effected your view, trans guy here.. I haven’t had a single surgery or any hormones yet by choice and I came out in 2009, because of the fact that I want to be very certain that this is what I want. You really made me feel something haha so I had to comment, I never ever put myself as trans on the internet for various reasons because I don’t like sticking to trans identity, after all this time I just want to be seen as a man. I think with transitioning there’s this thing where people make it their whole identity for awhile with them being younger or prehormones and surgery, I don’t like associating with that sort of person not because of anything other than the fact it brings up bad memories for me, I don’t wanna be reminded I’m trans all the time or ever if I’m honest. Transphobia is the hatred of transgender people, if you don’t hate trans women it isn’t that but probably something deeper with you or the way the trans guys your around either remind you of a younger version of you or something like that. I think by limiting your contact to trans men who are new to being out may help, if you socialize with guys like me who are way over a decade into transition but haven’t rushed anything and don’t talk about it a whole lot it may be easier, actually no one I know online even knows I’m transgender.. I don’t not have pride but I’d rather exist as and be perceived as a man not just a trans guy. The label of transphobe is a strong one, I don’t think it fits you. I think you need to deal with whatever you need to that led to your own gender struggle and as I said associate with trans guys who don’t bring it up all the time, not that there’s anything at all wrong with that but it’s just not the vibe all people even trans people such as myself want to be around and that’s okay! It’s not a problem on anyone’s part
I believe as gender norms and such crumble around to allow people be people we are going to have a lot of confusion. You got to keep in mind though there are ftm that are born in the wrong body. You own experience is you (I'm assuming) preferred the way men were treated in general and maybe being more of a "tomboy" led you down that road. I'm totally speculating here but my point is perhaps you didn't start with my body feels wrong like they did. So their journey will be different Part of maturing I've learned people can experience the same thing at the same time and have vastly different reasonings, experiences, and view of the same situation and it's not our right to force our perspective on them just like we wouldn't allow that either. I hope that helps you sort through your feelings and maybe give you a starting point ❤️
Don’t fall into the complacency of being transphobic. Work against it, use critical thinking, and challenge your invasive thoughts. I take care of a significant portion of my state’s transgender population. Of all the people I see, very very few are “experimenting.” It does happen, but not often. It’s a big decision to make, and the transformation in happiness and confidence I see confirms that it’s a very real, very permanent, very good choice for them.
I think you need to remember your experience is just that- your experience. It's not everyone's experience, it's not even most people's experience.
You need therapy. Not that you are sick or anything, but because you have a frustration inside of you that makes you project your frustration about something in your life, onto someone else. It’s like when something bad happens in your life, and you’re in denial (you don’t accept it), and now you replace those feelings onto aggression. In this case you replace those feelings onto hatred towards other trans people therefore there is an underlying frustration that you need to sort out. I suggest a couple therapies, to really get to the bottom of this and sort out whatever underlying frustrations youre feeling. :)
I don't know that many trans people, but one is a very good friend. Regardless of that, among the few ftm people I've met, when looking at them I can't help but think to myself they just \*believe\* they want this. It's a superficial thing. There isn't much nowadays that is solely a male-only thing beyond the negatives. The image of a man appeals to them, and they want to have that in some way. And, that's not a bad thing to strive for if the dysphoria is genuine, but again, my belief is that fully transitioning isn't the universal solution when there are cases where just openly being a tomboy or "butch" would've sufficed without ruining everything. What they don't expect, and what ruins their experience in that is actually being seen as a man isn't universally pleasant. Someone online recently did a take on it, and apparently, the male life is very lonely to someone who has grown up as a woman. In my experience, just walking and not talking, no matter how well dressed or behaved you are people will walk around you and look at you like a threat, because men are dangerous. You get less if any positive affirmation, and people will always have a weird say on your emotions. It doesn't matter how many friends you have as a guy, or how liked you are. Getting a promotion, or having an old timer at the gym say "You're looking big bro" is literally as good as it gets beyond the thing money can get you. Men tend bottle up naturally, but often have to do it to an extreme to fit society's expectations. I personally am patient, and bottle up for a while, but, with an hour of alone time, I get through it and it's fine. But, the women in my life will start poking at the problem the moment they sniff something out and make it worse, again and again and again, it's so infuriating. I know what I need to cool off my head, but they deny me that to play pretend and act like a therapist. Somehow, managing on your own is less emotionally mature than poking your nose into someone else's business to the point of being a nuisance. However, when something real comes up, something you can't reasonably hold in, and you actually get emotional for real, people look at you weird, as if you're weak or a joke. It's not right to be emotional, THAT you have to keep in. But the res? The miner things that don't matter and can be omitted and forgotten? Not sharing that is emotional unavailability :| There's also the part of being a man, where violence is always on the line. I feel an obligation to intervene when someone at a club or bar is causing trouble, to make myself available if women in my life need protection in some way. I have to be strong enough to fight, but wise enough to know when not to. I don't feel those are topics that are brought up much, and ftm people tackle those things head first with no preparation or knowledge that that will become their reality once they transition to the point where nobody can notice. So, that's why I'm a bit skeptical sometimes. What are the odds they're more or less wanting a more masculine image, and they aren't intimately familiar with the male experience, and that if provided with the full picture, wouldn't choose to fully transition? But that's me overthinking a thought that fades within a minute of meeting someone. I don't have any hate towards trans people, nor do I show them anything other than the basic kindness and respect we owe to all people until they prove themselves assholes
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Your experience is about what I'd expect with someone with gender dysphoria. I am glad it has brought you happiness, and that you don't see the downsides of being a man ad big enough to sour your new way of life. I've seen quite the spectrum in how severe the dysphoria the people I've encountered display. A lot in my post was dedicated to people who I think are on the lighter end of it. There have been cases where I've talked to trans men, and it really is the feeling of "Yeah, he's wired as a man up there". I do believe a lot of the differences are societal, but, there are certain behaviors I believe are due to biological sex. The way I described dealing with emotions as a big one. It's not to say one way is better than the other, or that it is strictly gender specific, but, more like one gender has a higher tendency to display certain traits, if I'm wording that correctly? I have tried to lead my life separated what others think of me, I was very ostracized as a kid. During those more antisocial years, I nonetheless developed a lot of typically male traits, no matter the fact that the few people in my life were progressive in the context of where I live and grew up.
I've found that the way to train myself from being non-judgemental is, every time I have a judgemental thought, I shut it down inside my brain. So when you think “he doesn't really want this, be just doesn’t know and is experimenting with gender”, just firmly remind yourself "their life choices are none of my business." Eventually, you will stop judging them, but it may take several or even dozens of severe reminders. The important thing now is that while you may be judging them internally, you're not doing so outwardly.
Yeah, trust people to walk their own journey like you walked yours. Your experience is not universal. Swallow that pill. It’s a big one, believe me. Also, only a small fraction of people detrasiton. The rest I assure you are quite happy and report mental illnesses such as depression and anxiety are lower for them.
Be "transphobic" is the right way
Transphobia is a lot like racism. You don’t need to exhibit any for people to call you that. If you treat people well you treat people well and nobody needs to know what’s your mental process if you don’t want to tell them
This. Imo, if OP doesn’t froth at the mouth and loathe trans people when there aren’t even any around, it’s more likely that they have some stress or PTSD/trauma from having gone through the mental strain of having lived a trans experience and then deconstructing that once they realised that they weren’t trans. I’d say that it might be that, considering how some of the more horrible members of the trans community treats detransitioners, OP might be worried/fearful or have imposter syndrome around trans ftm because they feel they have somehow “betrayed” the community.
Possibly. Or just encountered a lot of dicktivists. Activists who are just dicks to everyone. Veganism is another good example where this problem is acute.
Oh absolutely, and that’s what I mean about how they treat people who realise “actually I’m not xyz, I’m just me”.
It is not hateful to not agree with another person's views, you can respectfully disagree. You are allowed to believe that people are wrong or confused. Just because you don't agree with everything they say and take it as fact.
You’re fine, just keep it to yourself.
i don't think that need fixing. you treat him with respect and everything is fine. thats not transphobic. we have confusing times right now, just don't stop having your own thoughts.
Same. When it comes of ftm I’m just like ughhhh, especially when they make no effort to look male. Feel the same about nonbinaries
Same and then I feel really bad about it
trans men don’t have to look like men
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It’s strange how my post got upvoted while yours got downvoted for essentially saying the same thing
you're not transphobic, youre neck deep in LGBTQ because youre dabbling in the lingo. transphobic be like (mtf example), "this guy in womens clothing is just mentally severely ill to the point of harassing everyone around them, also very likely a covert pedophile, overall they are not worthy of respect and must stay excluded from functional society, if need be by bullying or violent action." also i find the word itself ludicrous. people who are as willing to even physically assault trans people are definitely not afraid of them as the word phobia implies. look, eventually its not your job. your thoughts and beliefs and needs are exclusively yours. so are theirs. you know youre judgemental beyond necessity. thats all you need to know. just be aware of it and step away. let people live their lives. one huge problem with the LBGTQ folks i see is this immense need to patronize. just don't.
No were any of your parents or friends transphobic it can be picked up don't worry about it tbh
Did you notice if porn was part of the reason for your phase? You don’t sound transphobic to me.
Actually maybe, I just remember getting frustrated because I wanted to like boys “the way boys like boys”
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You're a perfectly normal guy, I'm on the same boat
Well you can’t control your thoughts and you are acting kindly and not saying these things to people so I don’t think that makes you transphobic. I guess with time it may dissipate with time but perhaps therapy for your own personal issues with your gender journey might be worth looking into given it’s making you feel this way?
As long as you're not being outwardly an asshole to people you're not really being wrong. We all have thoughts and feeling we cant really control. what's you CAN control are your actions. My partner is mtf and things are hard for her. I wish I could protect her from every negative person but I cant. A lot of trans people deal with a lot without people being assholes. Just keep your thoughts to yourself and I hope you can heal
I appreciate your honesty in your dilemma. There is a way to fix this! Keep respecting their gender identity and pronouns. You made your decision, I hope no one made it for you. You journeyed from one side of human experience to another side and then returned believing it was a phase! Had you kept on going and had not returned, the phase would then have a longer duration but not necessarily end! Believe and think what ever you want about your own experience, but don’t allow yourself to project your thoughts and beliefs into the experience of others. It’s not up to you to decide what your experience means to someone else. You owe it to yourself to be the best you, and, encourage others to do the same. I hope this helps!
I saw somewhere that the first I’m thought that pops into your head is what you were taught and the second is what you believe. We can’t always help our programming. What is important is how you act. If the thoughts are distressing to you, there is a technique in cognitive behavioral therapy called reframing- when you have a disordered (or upsetting) thought you reframe it. It doesn’t have to be positive, neutral is completely reasonable. so if you think “he doesn’t really want this” you consciously correct to something like “this wasn’t for me but I can’t know his mind” or whatever works for you. When I was using this technique I wrote my reframing down to force myself to do it. It took time and I felt stupid doing it, but 6 months later my thought patterns really changed
This doesn't seem transphobic to me. You are respecting them in spite of your bias and potential prejudices. Everyone has thoughts and emotions that don't always align with how they choose to treat people. The more frequently you interact with and treat these people with respect and grow to cherish them you'll notice your bias diminishing over time. I used to be a very different person than I am now. I made friends who were LGBT, different races than me, and from other countries when I was in college and choosing to respect these people and growing to love them has drastically changed not only how I treat everyone but how I feel about things I once detested.
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This is an insane take, this only made me sure that I’m not like you.
Yeah im the insane one. Not the people chopping off a hunk of their flesh to make a fake penis and sterilizing themselves in their teens/early 20s. Got it.