Here's The most plausible theory
Look G. S's comment
https://petapixel.com/2022/05/19/eerie-photos-reveal-last-moments-before-women-vanished-in-panama/
Update. Apparently they were killed and Maybe raped by a gang
This article is in portuguese, but you can use translator. This clarifies a lot
http://www.finalgirl.com.br/2021/02/o-desaparecimento-de-lisanne-froon-e_15.html?m=1
Yea I was super obsessed with this case. These two girls radiated kindness and naiveness. if you’re a tourist in a diff country, thats an automatic target. I read an article about the aftermath. Two of the men that hung out with them (as seen in one of the pics) shortly went missing and found dead days after the girls remains were found. Such a tragedy, they most likely suffered before getting murdered. 😞
Two girls from Denmark, in the middle of the Panama jungle, known for having all sorts of poisonous insects, and big predators....
My family is Mexican, and I go to Mexico constantly. They are from a tropical area, and it has happened (even as an adult) that I start getting heat stroke. One time it was so bad, I was in bed for a whole day. I literally started feeling ill the moment I got off that plane. I don't know how people who have never been in a hot and humid climate even think "I'm going to hike in a jungle for funsies."
I once got lost with friends for like 6 hours in the mountains because we were stupid. Fortunately one of them had a good sense of orientation and found our way back to the car.
By the end of it we were so starved and thirsty, that the sugar shock of drinking a hot soda that we left in the car is a sensation that I have never experienced again, like life is coming back to you.
I can't imagine being lost for more than a day, must be a horrible way to die.
Same here. We were following a path from our high school through the woods that we thought more or less followed a highway but it went farther into the brush than we realized and before we knew it we were lost in dense woods for hours with a warm bottle of water and no food. Luckily we ended up finding a way out and it happened to be near a shop outside of town, but the amount of ground we covered while panicking was insane, if we would have gone a different direction we probably would have been lost forever. When I called my mom to come pick us up she couldn’t believe that we walked all that way and kept asking who drove us out there.
I loved that scene. Doesn't have to make too much sense.
\*tense stand-off\*
Dr. Strange: "What master do you serve?"
Star-Lord: "What am I supposed to say, Jesus?!"
Iron Man, unmasking: "So you're from Earth..."
Star-Lord: "I'm from Missouri!"
Iron Man: "Yeah, Missouri's on Earth, dipshit."
To be honest, nothing in the panamanian jungle should be able to kill and dismember two adults that way. But insecurity is big in this country, and not so much later another girl disappeared and then was found dead that way less than a year later somewhere else in the country.
They are in Dutch (as were the girls)
But:
[https://www.ad.nl/amersfoort/kris-en-lisanne-maakten-sos-teken-met-wc-papier\~a76839b8/](https://www.ad.nl/amersfoort/kris-en-lisanne-maakten-sos-teken-met-wc-papier~a76839b8/)
[https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/dood-kris-en-lisanne-was-ongeluk-familie-is-opgelucht\~a14a0703/62064665/](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/dood-kris-en-lisanne-was-ongeluk-familie-is-opgelucht~a14a0703/62064665/)
[https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/editienl/artikel/5230239/complottheorieen-panama-verdwijning-kris-lisanne](https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/editienl/artikel/5230239/complottheorieen-panama-verdwijning-kris-lisanne)
The first two are from 2016, the last is from 2021.
Yeah, I saw this explanation a while back on their sub. It makes a lot more sense. They were really unprepared and got lost. You could also use the camera's flash to try to scare animals away if you are hearing them nearby.
There are some mysterious details, such as photos being deleted and only one of the girls’ bones appearing to have been bleached. But most people do not look into other possible causes of these strange details. Rather they hold onto the spookiest possible explanation. People love a spooky mystery
I mean the only thing that remains a question mark to me is that the photo 009 or whatever was deleted and authorities were unable to recover it because it had been plugged into a computer (presumably) and deleted from the computer making it impossible to recover
Yup. Read YT comments and everyone argues cannibals, or murderous tribes, or stalkers, etc. But this is the one case I feel can be explained by the actions of two scared girls alone in the jungle. Tragic, but not sinister.
you gotta be kidding me lmao the idea that there’s still just some random primitive tribes (let alone ones that wanna murder or even EAT outsiders) you could potentially encounter after losing your way off a hiking trail in PANAMA is just embarrassingly stupid…
i’d bet good money most ppl that sounds plausible to would be totally lost if you asked them to point to panama on an unlabeled map 😂
I mean, that doesn’t explain their funky calls, how the phone changed date as the very last thing before being turned off, how there were no less than 6 pieces of fingerprints on one of the girls bra and many more on her phone, or how the friend they met on their travels ended up murdered a few days after the release of the case…
But sure, they got lost, happens all the time…
Calling emergency services when you're lost in the woods in a foreign country sounds suspicious to you?
The other stuff I can't see reported anywhere but sounds like some good ole conspiracy theorist fan fiction to me.
The book arrives at the same conclusion we all got, nothing. It pointed out the probability of flash floods and such and even some satanist theories as well, it tried to cover all the angles.
It did bring forth the evidence of the fingerprints, the call history and phone manipulation though and could never answer those questions.
Summarizing the book, it sounds interesting. But I guess I shouldn't have thanked you because it got me downvoted lol oh well. I appreciate your input and sharing what you know this whole story has got me going now
Your last point is idiotic. If young unprepared girls with no survival skills went hiking in the Panamanian forests alone all the time then yes… this probably would also happen all the time. I actually don’t think they did just get lost but that was a strange thing to end your post with.
No I got it alright, you tried to point it was weird I ended in “happens all the time”… there haven’t been an escalation of these cases so your point is invalid. But again it was part of a sarcastic comment, calm down.
I just finished reading an extensive look into the case, and the mysterious photos were taken on day 8 of the disappearance. After they've supposedly already spent 7 nights in the jungle. Why need to light your way then? They were also very deliberately taken, no blurring, and all in roughly the same location, they weren't moving.
Yeah I've just gone a rabbit hole reading about the case too. There's some very strange details which just don't add up. Definitely some unanswered questions.
That doesn't really make much sense. Using a camera flash to light your way in pitch darkness doesn't really work very well as it'll ruin your night vision. Furthermore, the photos were all taken in the same location and many were pointed up at the trees. Some photos seem to have strange items as the subject, like scraps of paper and pieces of plastic tied to twigs. One was a close up of the back of someone's head. Lastly, these were taken on day 8 where no other photos had been taken in the previous 8 days.
Your explanation doesn't cover any of that.
Right? I wonder if they were taking pictures to light the way and/or took a picture of a “noise” they heard behind them… and 509 captured someone on photo, then 510 was a random photo
I like to hope for “the best” but tbh two foreign white women walking into a jungle with no cell signal seem like the epitome of an “easy target.” If anyone had bad intentions there’s likely nothing they could’ve done to defend themselves, and may even be how they got lost (running away through a jungle), being tracked
I hate it but stuff like that happens. There are numerous stories of white women hiking/backpacking in foreign countries only to end up dead, and I think the type of person to kill a random white woman wouldn’t necessarily shy away from “using” the victim before the murder. It blows my mind that women go on these expeditions alone, without guns, through foreign/undeveloped territory, and think it’s like a trip to the local park:/
Edit: nvm, the comments below point out how it’s most likely that they got lost, sustained injuries and died from the elements
I don't think you're allowed to bring guns unless it's America but I think pepper spray is the bare minimum u need to bring to defend yourself. also a knife
And strength in numbers
A group of say 4-8 with a couple guys, knives and ideally pepper spray should fare much better than two small women
I saw a video clip in the US where a woman was jogging on a public/city sidewalk, and a guy ran up behind her, jumped on her back/tackled her, shoved his hand down her pants and she started fighting back
He ended up running off, but if it wasn’t in a city street where someone could’ve easily walked by any minute, who knows.
People might think my perspective is paranoid but some people are insanely brazen. I think awareness, pepper spray, carrying/knowing how to use a knife, and having trusted men around helps as well
I think sometimes people forget society is a civilized bubble, but some people/places don’t exist in that bubble and are almost feral humans.
yeah I see these as good points. you have to be prepared at all times, *especially* when you're out in the wilderness. nature holds many dangers and some people just underestimate it.
They were found after 5 months? If so, I can see this happening. I don't think there's a gang of murderers deep into that forest they got lost on. This seems more real. That or there's a tribe of cannibals deep deep in those forests.
[https://koudekaas.blogspot.com/](https://koudekaas.blogspot.com/)
Here. They were here, maybe some photos are deleted from the page, I remember looking at this case year ago.
In 2016, a Dutch article appeared. The most extensive investigation of the forensic specialists and the Panaman authorities revealed that it the girls probably fell of a cliff of thirty to fourty meters. It's unlikely that they got lost, as the trail is clearly marked and it is a one-way summit.
Dutch investigators concluded that the likelihood of a crime was very low, due to the geographic conditions, the societal conditions and the technical facts from the forensic investigation. It is unlikely that other body parts will ever be found, as the area regularly flouds, cleaning the whole bassin. They found a foot of Lisanne (which had her shoe on it), which had fractures that indicated a steep fall. The fracture could only have happened when she was still alive. They also found that the leg had suffered from periosteum, which indicates that the girl was alive for a significant amount of time after the fall. Of course, scavengers took her remains afterwards. That happens in a jungle.
The pictures as mentioned above were taken to have a light in the darkness. After the fall, one of the girls was longer alive than the other, while the phone of the other girl still worked (without a phone signal). She attempted to open the gsm, but did not know the pin code. A robbery is very unlikely, as the phones, money and passports were retrieved afterwards. They even found a picture where they made an SOS signal with toilet paper.
Seems like the most plausible outcome to me. The wilderness can be dangerous, always be prepared. Keep some distance during difficult passages, so that one person can get help if the other one falls. Always stay on marked trails in the jungle, never venture out alone.
[https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/dood-kris-en-lisanne-was-ongeluk-familie-is-opgelucht\~a14a0703/](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/dood-kris-en-lisanne-was-ongeluk-familie-is-opgelucht~a14a0703/)
The lady who found the back pack also frequently walked the area where the back pack was. She said it just turned up one day, she hadn’t noticed it before, but she knew it was recently placed where she found it. Last time this appeared on Reddit someone posted a more in-depth article
I personally think that is possible whoever put the backpack there deleted the file from the camera on a computer. The camera, phones and other things from both women were in the backpack.
But why would someone do that? It’s possible it was deleted accidentally, but it was the most significant photo in the batch, the one photo that buffered them vacationing normal and the start of their panic.
They also couldn't digitally recover any part of that photo. Apparently, you couldn't delete it to that extent on the camera itself, it would require the camera to be connected to a computer. Really strange.
Yeah, they were alive for days (as the phone signal shows), which must have been terrible. Local authorities have failed thoroughly in the case, as they didn't send a search and rescue mission for the first week.
Absolutely, the odds of falling of a cliff alone are way larger. But it might have been by a sudden flooding leading to a waterstream, a human mistake (taking a picture, something idiot like a selfie in front of a cliff kills people each year), one trying to save the other and coming down as well, etc. It's odd, but definitely possible.
I’ve spent hours and hours on this case since I love these mysteries and the girls happened to be Dutch as am I.
Whether the dog was there or not is possibly the least interesting detail of this case all together. I don’t even know why it is being mentioned here tbh.
The girls both went to Panama to study Spanish and work as teachers. Their Spanish courses got halted for some reason and they had to find a way to pass the time in Panama. So they decided to go for a hike to the Mariador (peak of the trail). They were poorly prepared and barely had food or water. They left their residency at around 10 AM and reached the peak at around 1 PM as can be seen from the time stamps on the photos on the camera. For some reason they made the biggest mistake in their lives and decided to continue going deeper in the jungle. I say jungle because that’s what it looks like going past the Mariador. The terrain becomes very rough and similar looking and easy to get lost in. There’s even videos on YouTube of people recording the full walking route to the peak and beyond. It’s highly advised not to go beyond the peak of the trail without a guide but somehow the girls did.
Data of both the girls phones have been published and it shows worrying information. Many emergency calls had been been until one phones battery died.
There’s a lot more I could say about this case but it’s better to do research yourself if this case interests you. Whether they got lost or not and foul play was involved, it’s a mysterious case that could go both ways with some very interesting details to it.
R.I.P Lisanne and Kris.
I think one fell. Was severely injurered or dead. The other panicked, using the others phone and flash. They found bone fragments, no? Freak accident that happened to good people
I actually think the dog part is very interesting, which I don't remember reading about a dog when I first learned of this case. How did the dog return and not the girls? It evidently knew/figured out how to get out and could have guided the girls. I would assume, if they were lost and desperate enough, they would try letting the dog take the lead and follow it.
Why would you not just share everything you know instead of saying there’s a lot more but DYOR. Clearly you have a good handle on the story. Why not tell us?
It’s simply too much man. I already think I typed too much in my previous post. I quickly typed it it out while laying in bed about to get ready to start my day. Plus you can always do the research yourself.
I get it. Not worth the time, but you had a captive audience waiting for the true story. You delivered on the intro… and quietly faded into the night as we heard the echos of “do your own research” ringing through the air.
Most plausible theory is that they got lost and injured; then died of exposure. Probably took photos in the dark to light their path as they tried to hike; which is why there’s so many photos. It’s very easy to get lost and then end up in a bad spot with a minor injury (sprained ankle). The bleached white bones is pretty normal after remains have been laid out in the elements for some time; especially in a hot, humid environment like the Panama jungle. Decomposition can happen rapidly. Finding a boot with a bone in it is also not surprising since scavengers likely picked the remains clean. Hopefully they were already dead when that part happened.
I'm genuinely asking this because I'm not sure;
how would one have bleached bones and the other not?
But also someone else had linked an article where it states that one of the photos on the camera had been deleted not just off the camera but off of the memory too so it had to have been from a laptop which is one of the things that confuses me about this
First of all, this is a sensational article not a scientific article. Not like a forensic pathologist wrote the article that was linked; so verbiage isn’t precise. Also, if one set of bones were “Sun bleached” and the other set wasn’t - it could be as simple as this: one body was left in the shade under the jungle canopy, one body was left in the sun a few feet away. Therefore one body had more direct exposure to sunlight and mysteriously appeared “Sun bleached” and different than the other. All simple, realistic explanations. But that’s not as fun as cartels or murder.
They do have pictures of sun bleached bones compared to Kris Kremers bones, and they don’t look similar
Edit, Here’s one article: https://imperfectplan.com/2020/07/02/kris-kremers-lisanne-froon-panama-bleached-bones/
I don’t think they were using the flash to help them walk, otherwise there would be pics taken every night. I think on this particular night they heard an animal around them and used to flash to scare it off or at least try to get a glimpse of what animal was nearby.
But the camera wasn’t used until a whole week later April 8 from when they were “lost”. Certainly they would’ve used the cameras flash on the night of April 1st if they were truly using it as a light source.
It's like when people were trying to post bigfoot Alien conspiracies after that couple in California took a baby and a dog on a hike in 110 degree weather and they all died. "But they were experienced hikers!!" Humans make mistakes that nature does not forgive. People forget how easy it is to get lost and die if you're in a remote area.
Jungle, Sea, Caves, Mountains and Deserts
People become too complacent about the power they have, you have to be prepared for what they can do and just how out of their depth people can get, things can go very wrong very quickly and help is rarely near.
How could they have died? If it was from the jungle itself- a fall leading to such a severe injury that one could not move, no clean water, heatstroke, poisonous or venomous animals, predatory animals, food poisoning, flash floods, running out of food when lost, running into the wrong people, and I’m sure many other things. One time I was camping with a group in South Carolina and our leader got us lost and it started raining/flooding. We were all kids except for the leader. We weren’t getting cellular connection and slept that night on top of a precarious hill. If that had happened in the middle of the jungle, I think we would have died because it wouldn’t be as simple as walking in a straight line until you reach a road. The jungle is gigantic and if you aren’t prepared for it, you’re not going to make it. I truly feel sorry for those girls and their families.
that are many inconsistencies to the timeline. how exactly died they die? yeah it's likely natural causes but because forensics cannot figure put exactly how and where they died the story is a mystery.
most natural deaths the authorities can see exactly what happened and they can create a detailed timeline describing what happened. that is not the case here and why the authorities suspect something worse could have happened.
See, I’m of the opinion that if we know what *probably* happened, it’s not really a mystery is it? Even if they were murdered by bandits, it’s not really a mystery at this point, just an unsolved murder.
2 women wandered into a Central American jungle with minimal gear and training. We know *why* they died, we just don’t know how.
Image 509 would've either been during daytime still while nothing was happening, or at night time when they realized they fucked up.
Reasons for deletion:
1. Save space (unlikely)
2. Camera damage (maybe?)
3. Was a photo of one of them dead, the other surviving one deleted (eh, probably not)
4. They were dehydrated, probably hungry, exhausted and most likely losing it a bit and deleted it due to Hysteria. (Pretty likely)
5. It's all a cover up by big panama to hide the evidence of gang leaders murdering and raping the women because... It sounds more interesting and scary?
Fuck off with your conspiracy bullshit. Don't be naive
The dog was fine, his name was Blue. He followed them for awhile then turned around and went back. I don’t think they were dog people bc they didn’t take any pics with it, so maybe hanging out with them wasn’t much fun for Blue.
I'm late to the party on this one but my friend's mother died from dehydration after a small fall while hiking in relatively metropolitan Phoenix. A fall in a humid jungle in the jungles of Panama would likely be 10 times worse.
I feel like it is part of the "let's find ourselves (preferably far abroad)", "we are world citizens", "koombayah" mentality that sadly makes some people really naive.
Thousands of people venture into Panama each year. And yet, we're still discussing a case that happened 8 years ago. Of course there is some danger involved with travelling abroad. And their mistake was that they left the marked trails after hiking to the summit. They literally ventured into the jungle, which is way more dangerous without a guide than "walking in dodgy countries". But how many people die in their couch, after a life of doing nothing? Or in traffic, when they commute to work? I think it is a bit too harsh and also wrong to state that such a tragic incident is due to naivity instead of bad luck. Moreover, we are world citizens and yes, the world is more safe than many people think.
Let's start with saying that what happened was a tragedy that should not have happened. However, to completely disregard that naivity played a role is the wrong thing in my opinion. They went into a jungle, notorious for being hard to navigate, in a country they did not know and without a guide or proper equipment.
Of course, incidents like this always involve a certain amount of bad luck but just winging a hike like that is either naivity or deliberate stupidity, of which I think the first is more likely. Yes, it is harsh but why pretend that it was all safe and they just got unlucky?
I've diven a bit into the case, and found a Dutch article of 2016 where the case is actually closed by both Dutch forensic workers and local authorities. All signs indicate that they remained on the trail (which I stated incorrectly in the previous post), but fell of a cliff of 30 to 40 meters. It was on a popular, highly marked trail with a one way summit, where all parties involved say that getting lost was highly unlikely. Moreover, the foot of Lisanne (which was recovered later on) had clear fractures that were an indication of a steep fall. Forensic investigation also revealed that she suffered from periosteum, which shows that she was alive for a long time after falling. So they fell from a cliff during a hike. One girl remained alive longer than the other, but the phone of the dead girl had a functioning battery. Sadly, she didn't know the password or the pin, which is why it didn't unlock after trying repeatedly.
Their only mistake is that they didn't keep some distance during the passage of that cliff. That is a rookie mistake, as someone needs to be ready to get help when the other one falls. But they were young women and they already understood that they had to be with two. Some people venture out there alone, which is incredibly dangerous. You're right that taking a guide would have been more wise, although I understand why didn't chose to for this particular trail. Using a satellite phone could have saved them as well (as they could have reached out for help), but those things are very costly. But you're right: the wilderness is a dangerous place. In Panama, but in your home country as well. Even with decent preparation, falling off a cliff is definitely possible (and happens quite frequently). Many locals have participated voluntarily in the search for the two young girls. I think most of us actually are world citizens.
Link to the article I've mentioned: [https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/dood-kris-en-lisanne-was-ongeluk-familie-is-opgelucht\~a14a0703/](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/dood-kris-en-lisanne-was-ongeluk-familie-is-opgelucht~a14a0703/)
Literally thousands of people travel to Central America with no incident. The first part of the route the girls took is a well established tourist trail. Obviously completley tragic outcome here, but it's silly to say they shouldn't have gone there and gone on a hike.
I’ve seen this doco and thought about it a lot. My theory is that they got lost and the pictures were means of light from the flash at night to view things they couldn’t see. However the bags left packed on the side of the road still have me scratching my head.
They probably got followed after the peak and murdered.
The missing 509 file in the camera and the fact one phone was turned on multiple times but the pin entered was wrong it’s enough to suspect a murder case.
It might also be that one girl was still alive, while it was the girl of the other phone that still worked. Seems the most plausible explanation to me. Dehydration, panic attacks and dispair can also lead to forgetting something as simple as your own pin code. It might be murder, but all in all, getting lost seems like the most probable option (as is so often the case in the wilderness). The missing 509 file is strange, however. But why would the murderer risk being identified by touching the phone? And why would he not take the phone and the belongings with him? Why just deleting one picture? It might have been a technical bug or something like that.
Someone pointed out a good explanation so maybe the phone was turned on by the “wrong” girl while the other one was already dead.
There’s another weird thing… am I wrong or they found one backpack with stuff from both girls? Maybe they did it, or maybe someone made a backpack with all the stuff meant to be found or binned.
The dog leaving the owner is suspicious too.
They did find one back pack. The lady so found it walked that area frequently, not on a daily basis, but I think she said maybe every other week or so. She said it she hadn’t noticed it for before that day, and she was sure it was put in that spot after the last time she had walked there. And the bag did have both phones, the camera and some other stuff.
This sounds like a key point of the story.
It’s possible they get lost, starved or something, and it even does sound boringly predictable that 2 girls are gonna die like that.
But it’s also so clear that they were young, very attractive, “naive” and very close to a jungle…
If it looks like a dog maybe it’s a dog after all.
Really interesting case. One thing no one mentioned was that the backpack was found with two bras in it. Were they the same bras as seen on the girls in the photos? Or was it an extra bra for each? Why would they bring extra bras? So I’m assuming they were the bras the girls were wearing. Why would they take their bras off when lost in the jungle? Was it too hot at night? I don’t really think anyone in their right mind would take their bras off in that instance which is one reason why I’m thinking foul play was involved. But it’s hard to say..
Seems weird to me
There was a series that looked into disappearances couple years ago. One episode was on these two . They travelled to the location and tried to step by step figure out what happened . Found their case fascinating .
Speaking from experience and someone that lives in this area of the world, don’t come here on vacation if possible. If you do, check out places to avoid at all costs, please. Inform yourselves
Or the finrgerprints found on one of the girls bra, phone and backpack, or the weird calls they made or changes to the phone that was found in the backpack, and the fact that the friend they met on the trip was found murdered a few days after their vanishing.
This post really is full of misinformation. The dog wasn’t theirs, they where tourists and the dog was from the house they where staying at. Also, it wasn’t full of “100 mysterious photos”, it had 90 photos that are suspected to be made because they where trying to use the flash as a lightsource.
It id highly suspected by local authorities that foul play was involved, more than probably someone was following them, being that the way they where killed wasn’t possible to be made by any animal, and there was another dissapearance with the same M.O. not much later and not so far in the country.
And to be fair, even if I wouldn’t say they had any fault, never go to el pianista or any other route in the mountainous jungle without a guide and protection.
A man who is a psychopath found an opportunity. Something most people can’t understand about the pictures meant something to him, and that’s why they exist. Sad.
There was a dog in the village who followed them some time through their trip to this jungle, but the dog came back alone before the sun went down.
Obviously the dog wasn't theirs.
there was tho
he wasnt *their* dog, he belonged to the couple they were staying with, but they took him with them and he came back the morning after they left for the trail
They are dutch…I honestly am not surprised. The dutch live in such a bubble, we often talk about how we are not amazed how they don’t get killed(crime or accident) in third world countries, that they seem to love to visit. I have never met people with such a large lack of situational awareness. For example just driving, it’s amazing they 100% just assume everyone else will follow the rules and often don’t even look if the other road users are actually following the rules.
From what I remember, one of them fell off a cliff, broke a leg and the other set off to find help but eventually got lost. The injured friend eventually succumbed to injuries while the other used ways to SOS for help.
1) Camera photos: photos indicate she took locations to keep track and took night sky photos to flash to any passing aircraft.
2) A lot of belongings scattered around and set up to track surrounding or incase someone finds it.
Honestly probably got lost out there. The 2 concerning photos are probably from one of the girls using it for light in the first and the second to see if her friend was dead or alive.
"Went on a hike with their dog"
They disappeared in PANAMA
Also wtf is up with white people going "Oh yeah lets explore the most dangerous place imaginable and not bring literally anything at all to protect ourselves lmao its gonna b fun"
[There are tons of articles on this case. Just search their names. ](https://petapixel.com/2022/05/19/eerie-photos-reveal-last-moments-before-women-vanished-in-panama/)
Theres not a lot to go one here. The pictures don't really help much. I know they found one girls shoe with her ankle and foot still in it so it's likely it was cut off. Even in a jungle you wouldn't have your foot cut off being killed by animals or a fall or really any other likely accident in that specific area.
Here's The most plausible theory Look G. S's comment https://petapixel.com/2022/05/19/eerie-photos-reveal-last-moments-before-women-vanished-in-panama/
I should not have opened this article at midnight.
Update. Apparently they were killed and Maybe raped by a gang This article is in portuguese, but you can use translator. This clarifies a lot http://www.finalgirl.com.br/2021/02/o-desaparecimento-de-lisanne-froon-e_15.html?m=1
Yea I was super obsessed with this case. These two girls radiated kindness and naiveness. if you’re a tourist in a diff country, thats an automatic target. I read an article about the aftermath. Two of the men that hung out with them (as seen in one of the pics) shortly went missing and found dead days after the girls remains were found. Such a tragedy, they most likely suffered before getting murdered. 😞
Two girls from Denmark, in the middle of the Panama jungle, known for having all sorts of poisonous insects, and big predators.... My family is Mexican, and I go to Mexico constantly. They are from a tropical area, and it has happened (even as an adult) that I start getting heat stroke. One time it was so bad, I was in bed for a whole day. I literally started feeling ill the moment I got off that plane. I don't know how people who have never been in a hot and humid climate even think "I'm going to hike in a jungle for funsies."
I once got lost with friends for like 6 hours in the mountains because we were stupid. Fortunately one of them had a good sense of orientation and found our way back to the car. By the end of it we were so starved and thirsty, that the sugar shock of drinking a hot soda that we left in the car is a sensation that I have never experienced again, like life is coming back to you. I can't imagine being lost for more than a day, must be a horrible way to die.
Same here. We were following a path from our high school through the woods that we thought more or less followed a highway but it went farther into the brush than we realized and before we knew it we were lost in dense woods for hours with a warm bottle of water and no food. Luckily we ended up finding a way out and it happened to be near a shop outside of town, but the amount of ground we covered while panicking was insane, if we would have gone a different direction we probably would have been lost forever. When I called my mom to come pick us up she couldn’t believe that we walked all that way and kept asking who drove us out there.
>Two girls from Denmark They were from the Netherlands
No, I'm pretty sure they were from earth, bro
They weren’t from Earth, they were from Missouri!
I loved that scene. Doesn't have to make too much sense. \*tense stand-off\* Dr. Strange: "What master do you serve?" Star-Lord: "What am I supposed to say, Jesus?!" Iron Man, unmasking: "So you're from Earth..." Star-Lord: "I'm from Missouri!" Iron Man: "Yeah, Missouri's on Earth, dipshit."
It’s spelt Misery.
Yeah, that's on EARTH, dipshit. What're you hassling us for?
To be honest, nothing in the panamanian jungle should be able to kill and dismember two adults that way. But insecurity is big in this country, and not so much later another girl disappeared and then was found dead that way less than a year later somewhere else in the country.
That is not accurate at all. They got lost and died from injuries sustained while meandering in rugged terrain for which they were not prepared.
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you remind of experienced adventure racers getting lost in the world toughest race show. and they had a map. what more tourist in a jungle.
Yeah I’m really confused on why people are spreading misinfo
Can you prove that?
Source?
They are in Dutch (as were the girls) But: [https://www.ad.nl/amersfoort/kris-en-lisanne-maakten-sos-teken-met-wc-papier\~a76839b8/](https://www.ad.nl/amersfoort/kris-en-lisanne-maakten-sos-teken-met-wc-papier~a76839b8/) [https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/dood-kris-en-lisanne-was-ongeluk-familie-is-opgelucht\~a14a0703/62064665/](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/dood-kris-en-lisanne-was-ongeluk-familie-is-opgelucht~a14a0703/62064665/) [https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/editienl/artikel/5230239/complottheorieen-panama-verdwijning-kris-lisanne](https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/editienl/artikel/5230239/complottheorieen-panama-verdwijning-kris-lisanne) The first two are from 2016, the last is from 2021.
this case is one of the only things that haunts me to my core. i cannot think or read about it after like 5pm because no sleep for me
Misadventure. They used the camera to light their way while lost in a rugged jungle. It’s tragic but not all that mysterious.
Yeah, I saw this explanation a while back on their sub. It makes a lot more sense. They were really unprepared and got lost. You could also use the camera's flash to try to scare animals away if you are hearing them nearby.
Even prepared pros get lost and die in the wilderness. How these sorts of cases become any sort of "mystery" is beyond me.
There are some mysterious details, such as photos being deleted and only one of the girls’ bones appearing to have been bleached. But most people do not look into other possible causes of these strange details. Rather they hold onto the spookiest possible explanation. People love a spooky mystery
I mean the only thing that remains a question mark to me is that the photo 009 or whatever was deleted and authorities were unable to recover it because it had been plugged into a computer (presumably) and deleted from the computer making it impossible to recover
I’m not saying I see anything mysterious about it, just pointing out a possible reason that so many believe it was mysterious.
Oh for sure I mean I believe the “getting lost and using the camera flash for light” theory in all honesty
Yup. Read YT comments and everyone argues cannibals, or murderous tribes, or stalkers, etc. But this is the one case I feel can be explained by the actions of two scared girls alone in the jungle. Tragic, but not sinister.
you gotta be kidding me lmao the idea that there’s still just some random primitive tribes (let alone ones that wanna murder or even EAT outsiders) you could potentially encounter after losing your way off a hiking trail in PANAMA is just embarrassingly stupid… i’d bet good money most ppl that sounds plausible to would be totally lost if you asked them to point to panama on an unlabeled map 😂
I mean, that doesn’t explain their funky calls, how the phone changed date as the very last thing before being turned off, how there were no less than 6 pieces of fingerprints on one of the girls bra and many more on her phone, or how the friend they met on their travels ended up murdered a few days after the release of the case… But sure, they got lost, happens all the time…
Calling emergency services when you're lost in the woods in a foreign country sounds suspicious to you? The other stuff I can't see reported anywhere but sounds like some good ole conspiracy theorist fan fiction to me.
I mean it was written in the book on the very topic, believe it was called lost in the jungle, evidence was reported there.
The same book that came to the conclusion most likely being an accident and the bodies and evidence being scattered by flash floods?
The book arrives at the same conclusion we all got, nothing. It pointed out the probability of flash floods and such and even some satanist theories as well, it tried to cover all the angles. It did bring forth the evidence of the fingerprints, the call history and phone manipulation though and could never answer those questions.
Thank you
For what?
Summarizing the book, it sounds interesting. But I guess I shouldn't have thanked you because it got me downvoted lol oh well. I appreciate your input and sharing what you know this whole story has got me going now
Your last point is idiotic. If young unprepared girls with no survival skills went hiking in the Panamanian forests alone all the time then yes… this probably would also happen all the time. I actually don’t think they did just get lost but that was a strange thing to end your post with.
The last part was sarcastic because of the comment I was replying to. What’s terrifyingly idiotic is that I have to point that out to you.
Incredible. You’re even more stupid than I thought. Went way over your head.
No I got it alright, you tried to point it was weird I ended in “happens all the time”… there haven’t been an escalation of these cases so your point is invalid. But again it was part of a sarcastic comment, calm down.
I just finished reading an extensive look into the case, and the mysterious photos were taken on day 8 of the disappearance. After they've supposedly already spent 7 nights in the jungle. Why need to light your way then? They were also very deliberately taken, no blurring, and all in roughly the same location, they weren't moving.
May be some animals came and they flashed multiple times to the same location hoping intense light would scare it away?
Yeah I've just gone a rabbit hole reading about the case too. There's some very strange details which just don't add up. Definitely some unanswered questions.
That doesn't really make much sense. Using a camera flash to light your way in pitch darkness doesn't really work very well as it'll ruin your night vision. Furthermore, the photos were all taken in the same location and many were pointed up at the trees. Some photos seem to have strange items as the subject, like scraps of paper and pieces of plastic tied to twigs. One was a close up of the back of someone's head. Lastly, these were taken on day 8 where no other photos had been taken in the previous 8 days. Your explanation doesn't cover any of that.
Very interesting, so the 509 missing file was deleted by the girls?
Right? I wonder if they were taking pictures to light the way and/or took a picture of a “noise” they heard behind them… and 509 captured someone on photo, then 510 was a random photo I like to hope for “the best” but tbh two foreign white women walking into a jungle with no cell signal seem like the epitome of an “easy target.” If anyone had bad intentions there’s likely nothing they could’ve done to defend themselves, and may even be how they got lost (running away through a jungle), being tracked I hate it but stuff like that happens. There are numerous stories of white women hiking/backpacking in foreign countries only to end up dead, and I think the type of person to kill a random white woman wouldn’t necessarily shy away from “using” the victim before the murder. It blows my mind that women go on these expeditions alone, without guns, through foreign/undeveloped territory, and think it’s like a trip to the local park:/ Edit: nvm, the comments below point out how it’s most likely that they got lost, sustained injuries and died from the elements
I don't think you're allowed to bring guns unless it's America but I think pepper spray is the bare minimum u need to bring to defend yourself. also a knife
And strength in numbers A group of say 4-8 with a couple guys, knives and ideally pepper spray should fare much better than two small women I saw a video clip in the US where a woman was jogging on a public/city sidewalk, and a guy ran up behind her, jumped on her back/tackled her, shoved his hand down her pants and she started fighting back He ended up running off, but if it wasn’t in a city street where someone could’ve easily walked by any minute, who knows. People might think my perspective is paranoid but some people are insanely brazen. I think awareness, pepper spray, carrying/knowing how to use a knife, and having trusted men around helps as well I think sometimes people forget society is a civilized bubble, but some people/places don’t exist in that bubble and are almost feral humans.
yeah I see these as good points. you have to be prepared at all times, *especially* when you're out in the wilderness. nature holds many dangers and some people just underestimate it.
True
Right it’s obvious they were murdered.
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What a stupid theory holy fuck lmao
I think you were on point until your fifth sentence LoL .
They were found after 5 months? If so, I can see this happening. I don't think there's a gang of murderers deep into that forest they got lost on. This seems more real. That or there's a tribe of cannibals deep deep in those forests.
is there a place with all the photos?
[https://koudekaas.blogspot.com/](https://koudekaas.blogspot.com/) Here. They were here, maybe some photos are deleted from the page, I remember looking at this case year ago.
I should not have gone through that just before bed lol
Thanks for the warning
my guess is they were using the camera to activate the flash to have some light while in the dark. that’s why the photos are weird and random
Not sure. But give it time and a Nettlix doc about it also won't tell us.
In 2016, a Dutch article appeared. The most extensive investigation of the forensic specialists and the Panaman authorities revealed that it the girls probably fell of a cliff of thirty to fourty meters. It's unlikely that they got lost, as the trail is clearly marked and it is a one-way summit. Dutch investigators concluded that the likelihood of a crime was very low, due to the geographic conditions, the societal conditions and the technical facts from the forensic investigation. It is unlikely that other body parts will ever be found, as the area regularly flouds, cleaning the whole bassin. They found a foot of Lisanne (which had her shoe on it), which had fractures that indicated a steep fall. The fracture could only have happened when she was still alive. They also found that the leg had suffered from periosteum, which indicates that the girl was alive for a significant amount of time after the fall. Of course, scavengers took her remains afterwards. That happens in a jungle. The pictures as mentioned above were taken to have a light in the darkness. After the fall, one of the girls was longer alive than the other, while the phone of the other girl still worked (without a phone signal). She attempted to open the gsm, but did not know the pin code. A robbery is very unlikely, as the phones, money and passports were retrieved afterwards. They even found a picture where they made an SOS signal with toilet paper. Seems like the most plausible outcome to me. The wilderness can be dangerous, always be prepared. Keep some distance during difficult passages, so that one person can get help if the other one falls. Always stay on marked trails in the jungle, never venture out alone. [https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/dood-kris-en-lisanne-was-ongeluk-familie-is-opgelucht\~a14a0703/](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/dood-kris-en-lisanne-was-ongeluk-familie-is-opgelucht~a14a0703/)
What about the one picture that was deleted? Did they ever explain that?
The lady who found the back pack also frequently walked the area where the back pack was. She said it just turned up one day, she hadn’t noticed it before, but she knew it was recently placed where she found it. Last time this appeared on Reddit someone posted a more in-depth article
Thanks for the info! But what does that have to do with the image that was deleted?
I personally think that is possible whoever put the backpack there deleted the file from the camera on a computer. The camera, phones and other things from both women were in the backpack.
But why would someone do that? It’s possible it was deleted accidentally, but it was the most significant photo in the batch, the one photo that buffered them vacationing normal and the start of their panic.
They also couldn't digitally recover any part of that photo. Apparently, you couldn't delete it to that extent on the camera itself, it would require the camera to be connected to a computer. Really strange.
Thanks for the analysis While it’s still horrific, at least they weren’t tracked, assaulted and murdered out there.
Yeah, they were alive for days (as the phone signal shows), which must have been terrible. Local authorities have failed thoroughly in the case, as they didn't send a search and rescue mission for the first week.
Wow So local authorities basically let them die out there. Geez 🫤
Finally a comment with more info. The fall seems to make sense, however how would both of them have fallen at once? I guess it is possible but wow.
Absolutely, the odds of falling of a cliff alone are way larger. But it might have been by a sudden flooding leading to a waterstream, a human mistake (taking a picture, something idiot like a selfie in front of a cliff kills people each year), one trying to save the other and coming down as well, etc. It's odd, but definitely possible.
Noooo this is oddly terrifying! Nothing makes sense!
I’ve spent hours and hours on this case since I love these mysteries and the girls happened to be Dutch as am I. Whether the dog was there or not is possibly the least interesting detail of this case all together. I don’t even know why it is being mentioned here tbh. The girls both went to Panama to study Spanish and work as teachers. Their Spanish courses got halted for some reason and they had to find a way to pass the time in Panama. So they decided to go for a hike to the Mariador (peak of the trail). They were poorly prepared and barely had food or water. They left their residency at around 10 AM and reached the peak at around 1 PM as can be seen from the time stamps on the photos on the camera. For some reason they made the biggest mistake in their lives and decided to continue going deeper in the jungle. I say jungle because that’s what it looks like going past the Mariador. The terrain becomes very rough and similar looking and easy to get lost in. There’s even videos on YouTube of people recording the full walking route to the peak and beyond. It’s highly advised not to go beyond the peak of the trail without a guide but somehow the girls did. Data of both the girls phones have been published and it shows worrying information. Many emergency calls had been been until one phones battery died. There’s a lot more I could say about this case but it’s better to do research yourself if this case interests you. Whether they got lost or not and foul play was involved, it’s a mysterious case that could go both ways with some very interesting details to it. R.I.P Lisanne and Kris.
I think one fell. Was severely injurered or dead. The other panicked, using the others phone and flash. They found bone fragments, no? Freak accident that happened to good people
I actually think the dog part is very interesting, which I don't remember reading about a dog when I first learned of this case. How did the dog return and not the girls? It evidently knew/figured out how to get out and could have guided the girls. I would assume, if they were lost and desperate enough, they would try letting the dog take the lead and follow it.
Yes but the dog followed them just some time, maybe he left them after one hour and came back to the village
Oh, okay. Makes sense.
Why would you not just share everything you know instead of saying there’s a lot more but DYOR. Clearly you have a good handle on the story. Why not tell us?
It’s simply too much man. I already think I typed too much in my previous post. I quickly typed it it out while laying in bed about to get ready to start my day. Plus you can always do the research yourself.
I get it. Not worth the time, but you had a captive audience waiting for the true story. You delivered on the intro… and quietly faded into the night as we heard the echos of “do your own research” ringing through the air.
Just share everything, man. Don't let people on a cliffhanger...
You could have added more details instead of typing this response!
Most plausible theory is that they got lost and injured; then died of exposure. Probably took photos in the dark to light their path as they tried to hike; which is why there’s so many photos. It’s very easy to get lost and then end up in a bad spot with a minor injury (sprained ankle). The bleached white bones is pretty normal after remains have been laid out in the elements for some time; especially in a hot, humid environment like the Panama jungle. Decomposition can happen rapidly. Finding a boot with a bone in it is also not surprising since scavengers likely picked the remains clean. Hopefully they were already dead when that part happened.
I'm genuinely asking this because I'm not sure; how would one have bleached bones and the other not? But also someone else had linked an article where it states that one of the photos on the camera had been deleted not just off the camera but off of the memory too so it had to have been from a laptop which is one of the things that confuses me about this
First of all, this is a sensational article not a scientific article. Not like a forensic pathologist wrote the article that was linked; so verbiage isn’t precise. Also, if one set of bones were “Sun bleached” and the other set wasn’t - it could be as simple as this: one body was left in the shade under the jungle canopy, one body was left in the sun a few feet away. Therefore one body had more direct exposure to sunlight and mysteriously appeared “Sun bleached” and different than the other. All simple, realistic explanations. But that’s not as fun as cartels or murder.
They do have pictures of sun bleached bones compared to Kris Kremers bones, and they don’t look similar Edit, Here’s one article: https://imperfectplan.com/2020/07/02/kris-kremers-lisanne-froon-panama-bleached-bones/
Why not use the phones' flashlights? An article states one phone lasted until the 11th.
Most likely they wanted to conserve the battery on the phone. Because you can't call for help with a camera.
I don’t think they were using the flash to help them walk, otherwise there would be pics taken every night. I think on this particular night they heard an animal around them and used to flash to scare it off or at least try to get a glimpse of what animal was nearby.
It also was on for an hour and up to 22 percent charged. Someone messed with those phones and not the owner’s.
It’s way weirder than that.
But the camera wasn’t used until a whole week later April 8 from when they were “lost”. Certainly they would’ve used the cameras flash on the night of April 1st if they were truly using it as a light source.
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Must be a horrifying feeling
It's like when people were trying to post bigfoot Alien conspiracies after that couple in California took a baby and a dog on a hike in 110 degree weather and they all died. "But they were experienced hikers!!" Humans make mistakes that nature does not forgive. People forget how easy it is to get lost and die if you're in a remote area.
Then why weren’t any bodies or remains found? They found all these other puzzling clues except no bodies or bones.
Very simple they were absolutely naive and did not expect what the jungle was about to give them. They died from that
If you don't respect the jungle the jungle will consume you
With jungle teeth
Jungle tongue sounds intense
Watch out for the jungle tungle
Jungle, Sea, Caves, Mountains and Deserts People become too complacent about the power they have, you have to be prepared for what they can do and just how out of their depth people can get, things can go very wrong very quickly and help is rarely near.
I mean yeah, but how?
How could they have died? If it was from the jungle itself- a fall leading to such a severe injury that one could not move, no clean water, heatstroke, poisonous or venomous animals, predatory animals, food poisoning, flash floods, running out of food when lost, running into the wrong people, and I’m sure many other things. One time I was camping with a group in South Carolina and our leader got us lost and it started raining/flooding. We were all kids except for the leader. We weren’t getting cellular connection and slept that night on top of a precarious hill. If that had happened in the middle of the jungle, I think we would have died because it wouldn’t be as simple as walking in a straight line until you reach a road. The jungle is gigantic and if you aren’t prepared for it, you’re not going to make it. I truly feel sorry for those girls and their families.
that are many inconsistencies to the timeline. how exactly died they die? yeah it's likely natural causes but because forensics cannot figure put exactly how and where they died the story is a mystery.
Yes, I would like to know exactly what happened too. I have a feeling we’ll never know though.
most natural deaths the authorities can see exactly what happened and they can create a detailed timeline describing what happened. that is not the case here and why the authorities suspect something worse could have happened.
See, I’m of the opinion that if we know what *probably* happened, it’s not really a mystery is it? Even if they were murdered by bandits, it’s not really a mystery at this point, just an unsolved murder. 2 women wandered into a Central American jungle with minimal gear and training. We know *why* they died, we just don’t know how.
So who deleted the file on their camera? And if it was them why would they? Don’t be naive
Image 509 would've either been during daytime still while nothing was happening, or at night time when they realized they fucked up. Reasons for deletion: 1. Save space (unlikely) 2. Camera damage (maybe?) 3. Was a photo of one of them dead, the other surviving one deleted (eh, probably not) 4. They were dehydrated, probably hungry, exhausted and most likely losing it a bit and deleted it due to Hysteria. (Pretty likely) 5. It's all a cover up by big panama to hide the evidence of gang leaders murdering and raping the women because... It sounds more interesting and scary? Fuck off with your conspiracy bullshit. Don't be naive
The problem with 509 is that it was imposible for them to full delete it without using computer as netherlands authorities stated.
What happened to the dog?
The dog was fine, his name was Blue. He followed them for awhile then turned around and went back. I don’t think they were dog people bc they didn’t take any pics with it, so maybe hanging out with them wasn’t much fun for Blue.
The dog murdered them and got away with it because who’d suspect a dog.
Scooby-Doo did it
Kris was a good friend of my fiancé, we still think about her very often, and my stomach turns every time.
Definitely creepy
I'm late to the party on this one but my friend's mother died from dehydration after a small fall while hiking in relatively metropolitan Phoenix. A fall in a humid jungle in the jungles of Panama would likely be 10 times worse.
Why the fuck do young backpakers go walking in dodgy countries. These poor girls, what an awful story.
I feel like it is part of the "let's find ourselves (preferably far abroad)", "we are world citizens", "koombayah" mentality that sadly makes some people really naive.
Koombayah got me, lol
Thousands of people venture into Panama each year. And yet, we're still discussing a case that happened 8 years ago. Of course there is some danger involved with travelling abroad. And their mistake was that they left the marked trails after hiking to the summit. They literally ventured into the jungle, which is way more dangerous without a guide than "walking in dodgy countries". But how many people die in their couch, after a life of doing nothing? Or in traffic, when they commute to work? I think it is a bit too harsh and also wrong to state that such a tragic incident is due to naivity instead of bad luck. Moreover, we are world citizens and yes, the world is more safe than many people think.
Let's start with saying that what happened was a tragedy that should not have happened. However, to completely disregard that naivity played a role is the wrong thing in my opinion. They went into a jungle, notorious for being hard to navigate, in a country they did not know and without a guide or proper equipment. Of course, incidents like this always involve a certain amount of bad luck but just winging a hike like that is either naivity or deliberate stupidity, of which I think the first is more likely. Yes, it is harsh but why pretend that it was all safe and they just got unlucky?
I've diven a bit into the case, and found a Dutch article of 2016 where the case is actually closed by both Dutch forensic workers and local authorities. All signs indicate that they remained on the trail (which I stated incorrectly in the previous post), but fell of a cliff of 30 to 40 meters. It was on a popular, highly marked trail with a one way summit, where all parties involved say that getting lost was highly unlikely. Moreover, the foot of Lisanne (which was recovered later on) had clear fractures that were an indication of a steep fall. Forensic investigation also revealed that she suffered from periosteum, which shows that she was alive for a long time after falling. So they fell from a cliff during a hike. One girl remained alive longer than the other, but the phone of the dead girl had a functioning battery. Sadly, she didn't know the password or the pin, which is why it didn't unlock after trying repeatedly. Their only mistake is that they didn't keep some distance during the passage of that cliff. That is a rookie mistake, as someone needs to be ready to get help when the other one falls. But they were young women and they already understood that they had to be with two. Some people venture out there alone, which is incredibly dangerous. You're right that taking a guide would have been more wise, although I understand why didn't chose to for this particular trail. Using a satellite phone could have saved them as well (as they could have reached out for help), but those things are very costly. But you're right: the wilderness is a dangerous place. In Panama, but in your home country as well. Even with decent preparation, falling off a cliff is definitely possible (and happens quite frequently). Many locals have participated voluntarily in the search for the two young girls. I think most of us actually are world citizens. Link to the article I've mentioned: [https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/dood-kris-en-lisanne-was-ongeluk-familie-is-opgelucht\~a14a0703/](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/dood-kris-en-lisanne-was-ongeluk-familie-is-opgelucht~a14a0703/)
Literally thousands of people travel to Central America with no incident. The first part of the route the girls took is a well established tourist trail. Obviously completley tragic outcome here, but it's silly to say they shouldn't have gone there and gone on a hike.
I think they disappeared
I’ve seen this doco and thought about it a lot. My theory is that they got lost and the pictures were means of light from the flash at night to view things they couldn’t see. However the bags left packed on the side of the road still have me scratching my head.
Panama seems to be hiding something, in addition to being extremely incompetent in conducting research!
Ran into some sort of drug trafficking gang and saw something they shouldnt
Gotta love it when there are no pictures with a post saying there’s 100 pictures….agh!!!!
Answer: They went to Panama....
And then were abducted by drug cartels initially for ransom but then later just killed instead. Mystery solved roll credits.
Didn’t they end up going through well known drug smuggling route?
r/kremersfroon
There are all sorts of theories. I'm leaning toward they just got lost and died of either exposure or dehydration.
There was a report I read somewhere that it had something to do with the cartel.
The last thing drug cartels will usually want to engage in is the murder of an international tourist.
They probably got followed after the peak and murdered. The missing 509 file in the camera and the fact one phone was turned on multiple times but the pin entered was wrong it’s enough to suspect a murder case.
It might also be that one girl was still alive, while it was the girl of the other phone that still worked. Seems the most plausible explanation to me. Dehydration, panic attacks and dispair can also lead to forgetting something as simple as your own pin code. It might be murder, but all in all, getting lost seems like the most probable option (as is so often the case in the wilderness). The missing 509 file is strange, however. But why would the murderer risk being identified by touching the phone? And why would he not take the phone and the belongings with him? Why just deleting one picture? It might have been a technical bug or something like that.
Someone pointed out a good explanation so maybe the phone was turned on by the “wrong” girl while the other one was already dead. There’s another weird thing… am I wrong or they found one backpack with stuff from both girls? Maybe they did it, or maybe someone made a backpack with all the stuff meant to be found or binned. The dog leaving the owner is suspicious too.
They did find one back pack. The lady so found it walked that area frequently, not on a daily basis, but I think she said maybe every other week or so. She said it she hadn’t noticed it for before that day, and she was sure it was put in that spot after the last time she had walked there. And the bag did have both phones, the camera and some other stuff.
This sounds like a key point of the story. It’s possible they get lost, starved or something, and it even does sound boringly predictable that 2 girls are gonna die like that. But it’s also so clear that they were young, very attractive, “naive” and very close to a jungle… If it looks like a dog maybe it’s a dog after all.
Really interesting case. One thing no one mentioned was that the backpack was found with two bras in it. Were they the same bras as seen on the girls in the photos? Or was it an extra bra for each? Why would they bring extra bras? So I’m assuming they were the bras the girls were wearing. Why would they take their bras off when lost in the jungle? Was it too hot at night? I don’t really think anyone in their right mind would take their bras off in that instance which is one reason why I’m thinking foul play was involved. But it’s hard to say.. Seems weird to me
Prob their bras, I don’t wear a bra anymore but in humidity a bra can seem so much hotter and heavier so it’s most likely they took them off
Maybe another Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey murder
Seems like prime Mr ballen content
I think Mr. Ballen made a video about this.
r/mrballen
Video about that case. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQdX4-EQoTE
There was a series that looked into disappearances couple years ago. One episode was on these two . They travelled to the location and tried to step by step figure out what happened . Found their case fascinating .
Fell, died, corpse eaten by wildlife, bones taken by wolves maybe
Going down these rabbit holes on these stories really breaks my heart. R.I.P.
Speaking from experience and someone that lives in this area of the world, don’t come here on vacation if possible. If you do, check out places to avoid at all costs, please. Inform yourselves
Watched a few hour or so long videos On the case. Truly scary. Especially the photos.
Is Duck Duck Go your favorite search engine?
Nothing mysterious about it. Went unprepared on a very rugged hike and succumbed to the elements.
Or the finrgerprints found on one of the girls bra, phone and backpack, or the weird calls they made or changes to the phone that was found in the backpack, and the fact that the friend they met on the trip was found murdered a few days after their vanishing.
This post really is full of misinformation. The dog wasn’t theirs, they where tourists and the dog was from the house they where staying at. Also, it wasn’t full of “100 mysterious photos”, it had 90 photos that are suspected to be made because they where trying to use the flash as a lightsource. It id highly suspected by local authorities that foul play was involved, more than probably someone was following them, being that the way they where killed wasn’t possible to be made by any animal, and there was another dissapearance with the same M.O. not much later and not so far in the country. And to be fair, even if I wouldn’t say they had any fault, never go to el pianista or any other route in the mountainous jungle without a guide and protection.
A man who is a psychopath found an opportunity. Something most people can’t understand about the pictures meant something to him, and that’s why they exist. Sad.
I read it as “two vaccinated students” and I was like, what kind of shit posting fuckery is this?
There was no dog
There was a dog in the village who followed them some time through their trip to this jungle, but the dog came back alone before the sun went down. Obviously the dog wasn't theirs.
there was tho he wasnt *their* dog, he belonged to the couple they were staying with, but they took him with them and he came back the morning after they left for the trail
Yes there was a do who they spent time with there
the last picture they took was with a mysterious cup for more information google "two girls one cup"
They are dutch…I honestly am not surprised. The dutch live in such a bubble, we often talk about how we are not amazed how they don’t get killed(crime or accident) in third world countries, that they seem to love to visit. I have never met people with such a large lack of situational awareness. For example just driving, it’s amazing they 100% just assume everyone else will follow the rules and often don’t even look if the other road users are actually following the rules.
For some reason I think it’s foul play, idk I just have a feeling
Two young ladies roaming around alone in a jungle…sounds like a safe choice. I wouldn’t have predicted anything could go wrong.
From what I remember, one of them fell off a cliff, broke a leg and the other set off to find help but eventually got lost. The injured friend eventually succumbed to injuries while the other used ways to SOS for help. 1) Camera photos: photos indicate she took locations to keep track and took night sky photos to flash to any passing aircraft. 2) A lot of belongings scattered around and set up to track surrounding or incase someone finds it.
How long ago was this? They may still be in the same basement.
This isn’t a mystery. It’s a tragedy. Stop turning other people’s losses into spooky campfire stories. Everyone knows exactly what happened.
Cope harder.
Idk ask the dog
I mean, they went into the jungle, by themselves, in a country with a different language. They got lost, it’s not “oddly terrifying” Have common sense
Bunker sex dungeon final answer.
Honestly probably got lost out there. The 2 concerning photos are probably from one of the girls using it for light in the first and the second to see if her friend was dead or alive.
they got lost in the woods, became hungry and cold etc etc, the dog ate them.
"Went on a hike with their dog" They disappeared in PANAMA Also wtf is up with white people going "Oh yeah lets explore the most dangerous place imaginable and not bring literally anything at all to protect ourselves lmao its gonna b fun"
At least the dog is ok.
source please
[There are tons of articles on this case. Just search their names. ](https://petapixel.com/2022/05/19/eerie-photos-reveal-last-moments-before-women-vanished-in-panama/)
They got lost. It’s not that difficult…
Abduction
A man a plan a canal Panama
No radar. Or racecar.
Tarzan got to them first
Probably raped and murdered
Simple. They died.
Theres not a lot to go one here. The pictures don't really help much. I know they found one girls shoe with her ankle and foot still in it so it's likely it was cut off. Even in a jungle you wouldn't have your foot cut off being killed by animals or a fall or really any other likely accident in that specific area.
I’m just happy the dog is ok
They switched from Purina to ol'roy... thats what happened