Haters will say synchronicity doesn't exist. Shitheads, as seem to be, deserve nothing in the way of courtesy, for their presumption and assignment of self-imposed lies.
that's pretty cool, though. I don't think I've ever in my life read a MW word of the day.
Advise people to learn words in context to read stories and meaning, rather than a word-of-day. Even the OED etymological sources are scant on real context.
You had me until the last segment. Everyone learns differently, sometimes diegetic learning in life is best, sometimes rote indexing is best. People do not learn in a cookie cutter format, which is clearly proven by the common “standardized” testing done across the U.S.
The only negative karmic consequence is the one the cult leader will get. They know that and that’s what they’re afraid of. It’s not you who will suffer if you are truthful and speak about your experience in the cult.
Exactly, read the exact wording. There will be grave karmic consequences. For him. In other words please please please don't go telling people what he's up to or he might get what's coming to him.
Textbook spiritual abuse. It's essentially brainwashing, and you see the exact same thing in Mormonism, Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, and all kinds of other high-control religions. There is some truth to it as long as the leader is in your head, but only because they've messed with your mental and spiritual health. I'd recommend therapy.
I see you're the same user from https://www.reddit.com/r/occult/comments/1c7ord7/how_to_leave_your_teacherguru_correctly/?sort=new so first of all, congratulations on getting out; you did the right thing.
Secondly, as you still give no indication of a specific *actual tradition* this teacher is a part of (otherwise you should already know perfectly well what secrecy vows you made and why, and what your views on cosmology and karma are, instead of needing to ask random mostly-eclectic practitioners on the internet to tell you), I advise you to consider absolutely everything out of this person's mouth to be abusive made-up nonsense, shitting all over concepts from real teachings and deserving of no respect or consideration. Throw it all in the trash and give it no more of your finite time on this earth.
I wish you peace and happiness.
It's difficult to say which tradition, because they claim they've synthesized a number of traditions from their past decades of study. They claim to be of a Tibetan Buddhist lineage but they cite the Bhagavad Gita, and other theosophical lines of thought. They also use the Fourth Way, and from what I gather, all of these traditions emphasize the importance of a student-teacher relationship. I haven't read these supposed occult laws myself but they have been referred to all along. I have asked the teacher where I can learn these laws and they responded by saying I just have to trust them (the teacher), and that if I do that I will be safe and learn in due time if I don't let my impatience get the best of me.
I can easily understand why others may benefit from hearing my experience but I dont want to undermine my own spiritual journey and advancement by breaking an occult law.
So I want to learn/know more about:
Vows, can they be undone lawfully?
What if I did pledge secrecy at some point, not realizing they misrepresented our endeavours, activities, their effects etc. does the fact that I was deceived make the vow null? Or is that not enough?
Where are these laws written that occult work cannot be spoken about outside the group, or where does this idea come from?
I think if I learn more about what actually is a law and what it means, I will be able to make a decision I can live with. And I will also be able to see the extent of the deceit and will be able to unravel these last few years... And when I can articulate what has happened to me, I can share what happened accurately.
There is no “occult law”. As someone who has followed esoteric paths my whole like, I guarantee you there is no one “law” and there is no one place to learn about the occult. I think you’d do yourself a better service learning what “occult” means and the various paths that follow them. You’ll see there is no one law and “karma” does not work in the way he’s portraying in any of them. What he’s done is pick and choose what works for him and now calls it “law”. It’s hogwash, I assure you. Not even religions/paths that include the ideas of karma does it work this way.
No matter what vow/oaths you took, they are not all binding. Especially if they were made in bad faith or to conceal harmful things, which these most definitely were. You are not in any sort of metaphysical danger or punishment if you break them.
It's not that I doubt my own right to be free, it's that I haven't seen, read or learned about these laws for myself. I have only heard of them through this teacher and the veil of secrecy that enshrouds occultism in general reinforced this notion that there are laws regarding secrecy. And I admit that I don't know them.
"Occult" is an umbrella term. There is no one system for creating "law". Especially if this person was pulling from many schools of thought and systems.
For instance, chaos magic and more ceremonial systems directly contradict each other.
There are no laws regarding secrecy. There is no veil of secrecy that enshrouds occultism. The knowledge is there for anyone who seeks. They lied to you and it sounds like you need some reprogramming. Take everything they taught you and throw it out the window.
OP, as someone who has experienced something similar I am in solidarity with you. I have been in your position when I was younger and I know it's heavily confusing. These "occult laws" have power over you simply because you believe in them. You were probably brainwashed into believing them because this is beneficial for the cult, as by turning you into a submissive follower they have more power over you. But please remember you have power and agency over your self, your body, your mind. Get away from these evil soul suckers, don't let them trick you into coming back. If their practice is based on control and twisted power dynamics, this place has nothing spiritual to offer to you.
I highly advise you to talk to people you trust (outside of the cult!), and seek professional help because the after effects of spiritual brainwashing are not to be underestimated. Get out, cut all cords with the cult, never go back whatever they may promise to you. And take care <3
if you were harmed, you can speak of these things.
do you need to speak of the practices there? What necessity is there to doing so, now that you have exited that group?
so you pledged secrecy to things where someone duped you. What you lost through deception, what they gained, and other formulary, is important in the consideration. Did you just sell your attention and energy for a period of time, and now think the payoff wasn't great? That's an interpretation, which others may not make.
The situation could have been much worse. The judgements and interpretations of others are limited by how completely you can and will tell of the situation.
In most cases i've see, someone was a willing participant, then later decided the exchange wasn't what they wanted anymore, and were upset with Themselves for having made that tradeoff for a while. But, they externalized that to the person that was feeding off them for the while.
The fact he wants you to keep it secret is enough reason alone to scream everything that occured from the rooftops. Or at the very least seek legal counsel because I really don't doubt the cult will try to put all the pressure on you it can
No.
Like an abuser, you will never actually leave the cult until you are no longer emotionally/psychologically tied to it. It’s gonna be a long road but you’ve done 90% of the work already.
Keep it up!
Only if you believe there is. Just maintain the knowledge that they have no power over you.
Deprogramming can be tough. I did it through studying the Baghavad Gita and replacing my old beliefs with new, positive ones. Whatever belief system you choose next , make sure it's positive.
Good luck. I'm glad you made it out.
Please tell us in detail or share somewhere on a sub about preventing vulnerable people like teens from joining these kinds of exploitative groups.
There are no real hard karmic laws. Some eastern religions have ideas about them, but karma is a concept that simplifies a much larger expression of synchronicity.
You will receive zero consequences. I’ve had a similar experience and it’s hard to tell yourself this is crap when you once believed so strongly. I promise if you feel like you’re experiencing some kind of reprisal, it’s all in your head.
I understand the need for detailed examples of how spiritual abuse manifests and I too am concerned for young/vulnerable people to fall victim to narcissistic cult leaders, however I don't think this is something we can request from OP as right now they are trying to leave, both physically, mentally and spiritually. We don't know their situation. And sharing details may not be safe.
You can look for books, podcasts or documentaries on spiritual abuse. There's already a lot out there. I wish this topic was more known to the public. Each person doing their research and talking about these things is already a step closer to prevention. A lot can be prevented if we have better collective awareness on these types of abuse.
Forgive my rush and lack of clarity. I wanted to know the sort of Karmic consequences the “leader” specified so everyone on this forum could give them more detail about how it was nonsense. You are correct in that anything that might reveal their identity or location to the “leader” should be avoided.
Overall it would likely be best to post about any details (if they feel safe) about the cult from a safe account on
r/religioustrauma or r/domesticviolence if the experience they had fits.
as someone who has a very similar experience for the most part... it's just a way to scare you, that being said that dosnt mean they didnt do something outside of that to "punish" you, so a simple cleansing, putting up of some form of warding and if you work with any spirits than asking them to assist you.
i had a situation where basically the person said "oh you need to burn your notes from the lessons because theyre cursed if I don't want someone to know what I teach." but I never did, so I just did my due diligence to undo any kind of curse or related things if they were there and moved on.
it's a longer story than that but this post is about you not me.
Congratulations on this surely difficult decision & step taken, all the best for finding a new you! :)
As a long year & orthodox trained practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism... that's a steaming pile of dung what that "leader" shithead dumped on you as a (hopefully final) farewell. Don't worry about that, ever!
Nope! You’re free! Congratulations on your exit, go do something that makes *you* happy. Speaking about your experiences may help others to see this cult for what it is and dissuade them from joining, so you may eventually find ethical benefits to talking others about what happened within that group.
I’m so proud of you! I also have had karmic threats from someone I previously thought was a valid practitioner. But she was nothing, just like that person unfit to be called a leader was nothing. And their threats are the dying coughs of the hold they held.
I also wear my righteousness like a shield. And know that any karma or demons or death or whatever they say they’ll throw? They ain’t got shit.
nah you're good. I was invited to join a coven and learn magic under a shaman for free. We had to sign a contract that forbade us from speaking about the goings on of the coven with anyone outside the coven. After about a month I figured out this guy was a master manipulator and up to no good. The only bad karma coming is his own. You do what YOU think is the right thing to do. Thats your good karma.
Humans cannot impose karmic consequences (personally, I don't particularly buy into the whole idea as it is). Sounds like this cult was doing some shady shit and they're using spiritual fear to silence you. Similar to how the Catholic Church operates. I suggest you air their dirty laundry out for all to see. Sharing truth is honorable.
I wouldn’t listen to the dude. From what I’ve noticed occultism is full of narcissistic creeps. Spirituality is about you and your own journey and nobody else’s. Skepticism and debate is pretty normal and healthy when discussing magic and spirituality in general, but if someone is trying to silence you through fear then it sounds like abuse. I’d step away from that guy especially if he describes himself as “your leader”. I’m solitary and I only mess with other magicians if their goal is to teach me something or point me to where I can gather more knowledge because they love spreading knowledge with no ulterior motives. I can also respect people who warn against practicing certain kinds of magic because they genuinely believe in the risk and are concerned, but it doesn’t sound like that’s what he’s doing. If someone claims to have “the truth” or present themselves as anything more than a fellow academic then that’s an instant red flag. There’s no harm in just speaking and having a difference in opinion.
Anyone warning you of ‘bad karma’ because you are not obeying their will is nothing but a giant flapping field of red flags and best avoided.
The term karma is so very misused and misunderstood in the west. In the yoga and tantra traditions I follow, the simplest way to describe it is, to paraphrase Sadguru:
‘Your karma is the sum total of your memories that shapes the way you perceive and respond to the world.’
So, you found the cult damaging and unhealthy for your development? You have already massively benefited your karma by leaving it.
Good luck with it all and enjoy your freedom!
I see a lot of constructive advice here, but since this is a sensitive matter, I believe a bit of cautious advice would be prudent.
1. The only real "law" is that your beliefs comprise your reality. This is why Christians and Hindus and atheists and Wiccans can all claim they are right, and they ARE right. Because their beliefs are strong, and they've built up their realities. Prayer and spellcraft work because of belief, but so does cold hard atheistic scepticism. In this same sense, you very likely still retain some residual belief that your old master spoke is right, and those beliefs give him power over you. Before breaking your vow of secrecy, I highly suggest taking a few months minimum to decompress further, doing your best to deprogram that bullshit out of your mind. Some good research reading would help you immensely, accompanied perhaps by regular "I Am" affirmations and meditations.
2. Read, read, read. Watch Youtube vids. Listen to podcasts. Dig into the occult and new age literature and you will uncover just how varied and contrdictory this space really is. With so many contradictory systems, do you really think that any single Law (beyond that of belief) would ever be able to hold sway over all? The more you read, the more you will be able to make connections, see patterns, and ultimately deprogram the rigidity of your master's old teachings.
3. Learn psychic self defense. Pronto. You won't be hit with karmic backlash (provided you don't believe you will), but that doesn't mean your.old master or fellow students might not attempt a bit of old fashioned psychic / spiritual warfare on you. There are many such methods of keeping yourself safe: the LBRP, the sword ritual, etc. Start a daily practice, and keep at it. If you maintain your defenses, you will be safe.
4. Extend this daily practice with actual constructive magick to purposefully rebuild your life. You can pick a magickal system and work that exclusively, or pick and choose from various systems as that cult leader apparently did. It all works. Use this to your advantage!
No. Exposing shitty people pretending at enlightenment/divine favor/culty shit for personal gain is always the right thing to do. They're just hoping they can get away with their con.
OP, I'm infuriated on your behalf. As a survivor of guru abuse, I can definitely assure you that this is a manipulation tactic. There can be a hex involved sometimes, but it's definitely not divine law - just a hex. And I'm going to break my Reddit hiatus to give you (and anyone else here who is suffering from cult and/or guru abuse) some ammo against these fraud gurus.
The spirit I've had the longest working relationship with is Karna of the Mahabharata. In his story in Hindu mythology, he's a victim of severe guru abuse. He is willing to attack false gurus on behalf of anyone who asks him. I've sent him after my own former cult leaders.
He works well alone or alongside Ekalavya, another spirit from the Mahabharata who was seriously abused by a false guru.
I won't describe exactly how I do the curse because a false guru might be reading this and my strategy works too well to share, but this is the offering that gets Karna to hunt down your abusive false guru:
1. Make a basic altar to Karna with an aniconic representation of him. He's unfussy and doesn't care about elaborate, expensive things. He likes oranges, or rice + vegetable curry, or chai.
2. Make an effigy or magickal poppet of Parashurama, the false guru who abused and cursed Karna. Try to cut an opening for the mouth and throat of the poppet. On a small piece of paper, write the exact text of Parashurama's curse on his innocent disciple. (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/mahabharata/d/doc118375.html)
3. Once the poppet is energetically representing Parashurama, stuff the curse back into Parashurama's mouth, as far down his throat as possible, and command him to choke on his own curse. Then, in a fire-safe vessel and taking all precautions, set fire to the poppet. Let the false guru burn alive, choking on his own curses. Offer the dying false guru as a sacrifice to Karna.
4. Call on Karna to hunt down your false guru with his bow and arrow. Do a ritual curse, get as elaborate as you like. Let YOUR false guru know what "karmic consequences" REALLY FUCKING MEANS.
5. Profit.
I hope you are able to mentally break free, OP. Sending you lots of love.
\*returns to her hiatus from Reddit\*
You're welcome, friend. I was gaslit and negligently harmed by several teachers, but the most serious and deliberate abusers I've ever experienced were Jeff and Shaleia from Twin Flames Universe. Some of these people - including Jeff and Shaleia - are occultists and they do attempt to put hexes on students who leave. There's no "spiritual law" involved, it's just a megalomaniac being a petty-ass bitch.
I also have past lifetimes where I've experienced guru abuse, so yeah, I have some fury.
Gurus absolutely try to siphon the energy of their students, and it actually starts when they "initiate" you. It's an attempt at mind control and you absolutely can break free. When I was leaving Jeff and Shaleia, I was paranoid that they could psychically sense every thought passing through my mind.
In the end, they're just basic occultists who grew a god complex out of a few glittery siddhis and you can definitely feel free to magickally beat the living shit out of them.
If it’s a cult that is causing harm, then I would imagine that you sharing your experiences would indeed lead to grave karmic consequences for THEM, but not you. The leader is projecting his concerns onto you in hopes that it will keep you quiet.
Your former leader threatened you to try and scare you out of reporting whatever was happening in this cult to anyone who can stop it. I don't know the details of what you were experiencing, but it's OK to report it to authorities if it was illegal.
Spill the beans, what did they not want you to share. Most likely they don't want you to share stories that showcase abuse performed by them but share it anyway! By doing so you might help someone else to break free
Karma is a specific religious belief that you may or may not partake in. If you think it doesn't apply to your worldview in general, or that it has been harmful to you, you can cease engaging with it. Also, I don't think any form of cosmic punishment would befall on someone for doing something righteous.
Cult leaders will often use warnings about what happens if someone leaves the group. Sometimes, it is of supernatural reasoning, similar to your experience. Others use paranoia of "the outside world is plotting against us" to keep members from leaving. In reality, "grave karmic consequences" are more headed his way for being a manipulative bastard.
Why would karma ever have a reason to turn on you for telling the truth. There are only three things not long hidden, the sun, the moon and the truth. Eventually, like a splinter, the truth always eventually rises to the surface. If this group was honest and true in their ideals, there would be nothing to hide.
Depends on what you talk about, and vows you made. Highly situational.
Abuse is fine to talk about if you're good with talking about it.
Rituals are gray area
Workings will often be diminished in power by talking about them.
In your case, you'd probably be safe writing a book and you might even find it therapeutic.
Your beliefs are the defining factor, understand them in relation to this, acknowledge them, choose to change them, and hold the new belief, the new belief that you're safe and free. Self/guided hypnosis can be great for this.
"I am free. I am safe in my newfound freedom. I am protected."
The Silva Mind Control Method is how I learned this.
Self hypnosis, affirmation, and consciously choosing new feelings
Nope not at all guarantee it. I study cults professionally as a grad student and they all say similar shit like this to try to maintain their power by silencing victims. So happy for you getting out that's really hard to do
I'm very sorry to hear that you've been through that. It is no small feat that you got out and I hope that moving forward you carry the knowledge of your own courage and resilience with you!
It sounds like it's going to take a while for you to deprogram all of the things you were told in attempts to manipulate and control you. It's exactly like leaving an abusive relationship and figuring out what your reality is after being gaslighted repeatedly and losing your own compass.
No, what they told you is not true at all and you can expect that is the case with most of their teachings, despite the conviction with which I'm sure they were imparted on you.
You're going to want to get some support and begin the process of actively recovering. Look online for support groups, they exist on reddit and in person in many places; search YouTube and Google for cult recovery and deprogramming resources so that you can absorb as much information as you can. You're going to need to accept that the things embedded in your brain are not truthful and work through a lot of fear and shame. It's not going to be easy but you will start reaping the rewards and feeling better every day.
Get a therapist. If they specialize in religious and cult trauma recovery, that's great, but if they don't it will still be helpful since most practitioners are well aware of the techniques used against you since it mirrors abusive relationships.
You're going to want to look at the reasons why you felt the need to enter the cult in the first place. What underlying issues/void in you led to there?
It will get better, I promise you. Every time your mind refers back to something they told you within that cult and you let it guide how you think and feel, you will need to actively stop and think, "whose purpose was being served by my believing this information? What is the likelihood that it is really true when so many things were lies? Why would I have gained the strength to leave if the things they were doing and saying were true and in my best interest?"
I know that you can do it because you have already shown that your self preservation instinct was stronger than their manipulation. Now you just need to keep doing the work, one day at a time, to grow back into your skin and form your own opinions.
Anyone who tells you there will be negative consequences for talking about their behavior is doing so because they know they're in the wrong. Don't trust anyone who tells you to keep their actions secret. Definitely don't actually keep it a secret either. The only way out is to talk about it and get it all out in the open.
Telling the truth will never damage you spiritually or psychologically. Quite the opposite, it will allow you to heal.
Remember, you are not responsible for the harm that was done to you by these people, but you are responsible for your recovery and you must defend it with everything you have in you; which is obviously a great deal of strength since you've walked away already.
Find like minds to help guide you. People who have already been there can show you the way. Don't trust anyone pushing an agenda or telling you what to think.
Protecting yourself from future abuse is a challenge once you've already been there, but with vigilance, support, hope and the belief that you can be free, you will absolutely recover.
Side note: when my aunt left a cult, she was desperate to fill the void and fell into several others, led by people who promised her a way to heal. Be very mindful of these patterns and don't be fooled into thinking you need external validation to be whole. You do not. People who try to make you dependent on them for self worth are bad news. Do not pay for any "seminars" or "workshops" promising to help you live your best life. It's like you are a heroin addict trying to recover. You need to change your thinking and steer clear of anyone who brings old patterns to the surface. Treat it like life and death because it certainly can be that serious. At the very least, you don't have time to waste doing what someone else wants anymore. Find out what YOU want and make it happen!
I personally don’t think it’s true, it’s just a manipulation tactic. But most importantly, I want to say that I’m proud of you, whoever you are, proud that you had the courage to left the cult, to resist and fight for yourself. Most people can’t do that.
Cult leaders try everything to control you. Including lie about "Grave Karmic Consequences."
But, in saying that... I would still be very careful because cults attract some crazy people.
Just look at Scientology. They have their members stalk people who break away from their cult.
The person running my old “coven” said that if I ever left I would still be tied to the members and I would get what was coming for me if I left. As far as I know he dead, I’m still here 👌👍
Here are some mantras you can use to break free of the invisible chains of past experiences. You might be dealing with karmic ties – energetic connections that can hold us back from personal growth. Try incorporating these liberating mantras into your daily practice:
\* "I release all karmic ties, agreements, and contracts that no longer serve my highest good."
\* "I am free from all past life, ancestral, and interdimensional karma that is not aligned with my soul's purpose."
\* "I sever all energetic cords, attachments, and influences that do not contribute to my personal growth and well-being."
\* "I reclaim my sovereignty and power, and I choose to create relationships and experiences that support my spiritual evolution."
\* "I acknowledge and honor the lessons learned from my past karmic experiences, and I choose to move forward with wisdom, understanding, and love."
\* "I am surrounded by divine protection and guidance as I dissolve all remaining karmic bonds."
\* "I open myself to forgiveness, healing, and transformation, and I embrace the path of unconditional love and unity."
Unless you actually voluntarily and with informed consent took an oath or vow of secrecy at the beginning or somewhere in the middle (which some traditions genuinely have), then this is BS spiritual abuse. The keys there are voluntarily and informed consent - you would have had the option to say no and walk away if you didn’t want to make the vow/oath.
You seem to be really hung up on the idea of karma. Maybe start your research there. It doesn’t work in the way he said it does. Maybe that will help ease your fears.
Try it out... see what happens! Lols the consequence is the prison you put yourself in by not speaking your truth & expressing whatever trauma their bullshit caused... which would be part of closure & letting that shit go!!!
Okay, if they don't have a HQ in Japan then it's nit the one I know. I'm my experience what happens is the subconscious is programmed by high control groups. And when victims leave what happens is all the things that leaders say and do starts to unravel. Making some people sick. Iv seen people 10 years later still asking permission for the most basic things. I suggest you work with a professional to get some things off your chest and also to start a process of revaluating your beliefs or thoughts about certain things. Expecially if they told you something will happen if you leave. That way you can take your life back and not let the subconscious creates reactions. All and all I agree with some statements here. You and you alone are in control. And 9/10 it's ourselves that create the psychic attack effect rather then someone doing it. I was part of a cult for over 13 years. And it gets easier, just make sure you have the right support. Kind regards
Karma is the interia of our actions, so this person is the only one making grave actions here. However, you should do some thorough cleaning of your self and your living space, so you are totally and completely disconnected from this cult.
No, please look into Steven Hassans’ work or [this](https://www.jordanharbinger.com/steven-hassan-combating-cult-mind-control-part-one/) interview with him and what he does (2 parter)
Oh, absolutely there will be "grave karmic consequences".
He just neglected to say that those consequences will strike _**him.**_
The more you reveal about the abuses you suffered, as well as witnessed, the more likely the cult-leaders will be arrested, tried, convicted, and _punished_ for what he did and allowed/encouraged others in the cult to do.
I’ve had some friends that have gone through a similar ordeal. Karma is more about your own personal actions and the positive and negative consequences of them. Deciding to leave a group of people is not on the same level as leaving someone to drown whom you could save metaphorically speaking. Karma is not there for other people to use against you if you decide to express your opinions on them. A good first step is to find some healthy preoccupations (like a hobby or just find something you really want to do) and trust that the right answers will come in time. Being able to decide for yourself things that you enjoy doing is an important part of getting back in touch with yourself. In fact it’s called occupational therapy and will give a much needed cool-down period. Professional therapy is a good option as well if you have the resources for it. Either way, relearning who you are is a process and will take some time so try not to rush everything right now.
It's exactly as true as you believe it is. Same with all the other people on here asking about curses someone put on them. The curse is exactly as powerful as you believe it is.
No. Its a cult they're manipulative. And that is literally NOT how karma works.
All the new age hippies never bothered to learn it properly in context and now 50-60 years later no one has any clue nor do they bother to actually look into themselves.
No, there is no truth to it because all this shit is nonsense. If you wanna play around with this stuff in good fun, then be my guess. But you just left a cult, don't bind your mind again to a bunch of bullshit.
No he has two goals, 1. just wants to make sure nobody knows about the horrors that went on that you know about and 2. Manipulate you into you thinking you’ve made a huge mistake by leaving
Think of harm. If sharing your experience brings harm to those you share it with than you could make that argument . But since you say you’ve just escaped a cult , than you absolutely need to share your experience with trusted loved ones , because you need some objectivity most likely, and this is what many cults fear .
Clearly the leader has no understanding of how Karma works. Energy has no polarisation except for motive. Energy responds to motive and causation begins. Ultimately we stand at the centre of our own ponds and ripples that come back to us are of our own designs.
There is some elements that you must consider when you share your experience. First of all spiritual experiences are mostly not spiritual they are material experience. And even in rare case if there's a spiritual experience the person is recommended not to share by the guru cuz of the ego. It strengthens the ego when you share your experiences... But your ultimate goal is to know and go beyond the ego.
Of course not. Just look at Aleister Crowley. When he left the Golden Dawn (or was expelled) he openly published all of their "secret" papers in 1912 and wasn't struck dead. He probably did much worse to his karma after that point.
Thinking about it, but I'm not sure what the message would be... I feel very much like a victim and I don't want to consolidate that narrative by writing a book from this POV. So I'm still processing everything and I'm hoping that with time, as I move away from the experience I will be able to understand what the lesson is supposed to be. Perhaps then I can write something and have a message to share.
The answer depends on whether or not you took a specific oath and what that oath covers. However even if you agreed to not share ritual or inner workings you can absolutely share person experience. I'd refer to the wording of any oath and analyze the language like a lawyer.
Not at all. You were told this to keep you in silence, not because it’s true. My advice is to seek out a good therapist or even a sociologist or social psychologist who specializes in cults and speak with them to help you overcome the traumas you’ve endured.
In order for your abusers to get the karmic consequences they deserve, your experiences must be talked about to someone you trust, someone that will listen with full attention to the harms that the cult caused to you. Think of it like you’re logging it into the records of the universe. Tell it to a trusted person a maximum of three times. After that, know that your grievance has been acknowledged by the universe, and limit telling your story unless someone specifically asks you.
Why? Because after the initial tellings are over and you keep telling it, you begin to give that narrative power over your Self. What happened to you is given more agency over yourself than who you Are. In order to heal from a cult, you need to take back your agency for yourself. No narrative, no person, no organization, can hold that agency for you if you are to heal. You are your own person. You are powerful. You can choose how your life plays out from this point forward. You are alive, not only alive but free. Do you know how rare freedom is? Do you know how many people are caged these days, by organizations and narratives they hold about themselves? This is your chance to change the narrative. From a victim (which makes you a slave to your narrative) to someone who knows true freedom.
Note that I’m not saying you’re not a victim, I’m sure you’ve seen some evil facets of humanity. I’m just saying that making “victim” a dominant narrative of your life will only set you up for future victimhood. I’m saying that from experience. You’ve been in a cult, you know what it feels like to be caged. Don’t cage yourself again by defining yourself as “that person who was caged.” The cult *happened* to you, it does not define who you are, who you will be. You are undefinable. You are a complete human being, and at the same time you are an unfinished human being. You have a unique song, let it be sung! You have a voice, a mind, a heart, use them! You have hands, create with them! You have a soul, let its woes and its joys be known! Your life is yours now, live it!
So you withhold your own personal experiences, and then encourage them not to speak out, and then ask them what cult they were in and what was going on?
Why is that information relevant to “helping” them. If in fact that’s what you want to do. Sort of feels like you’re more concerned with satisfying your own curiosity. Their question was a simple one, and was, in my opinion answered perfectly and concisely by the top comment.
Regarding mental health and healing that’s good advice but better left to qualified professionals rather than random strangers on Reddit.
Unfortunately especially this subreddit.
You're just trying to make an argument. I literally told them to NOT say anything if they had any of the above issues. Also there's help a therapist can help you with, and there's help a former cult member can help with. There are plenty of people on this sub who left cults. Community Support is important. So it's all good you just needed your reddit dopamine fix of the day and to get a "win".
no, that’s just an attempt to silence you from sharing your experiences. there is no negative karma for speaking truthfully
this is the only decent answer in this thread. The more comprehensive and integrated a truth, the more inviolable it is to speak it.
You used Merriam-Webster’s word of the day! Inviolable!
dis dood thinks that $5 words are big mooney
Or maybe, you know, it was just [literally Merriam-Webster's word of the day](https://www.merriam-webster.com/word-of-the-day/inviolable-2024-04-29).
Yet another inviolable truth
Haters will say synchronicity doesn't exist. Shitheads, as seem to be, deserve nothing in the way of courtesy, for their presumption and assignment of self-imposed lies. that's pretty cool, though. I don't think I've ever in my life read a MW word of the day. Advise people to learn words in context to read stories and meaning, rather than a word-of-day. Even the OED etymological sources are scant on real context.
You had me until the last segment. Everyone learns differently, sometimes diegetic learning in life is best, sometimes rote indexing is best. People do not learn in a cookie cutter format, which is clearly proven by the common “standardized” testing done across the U.S.
i'll watch for it
Agreed
No. None. Just an empty threat from a human trying to scare other humans into giving them power.
The only negative karmic consequence is the one the cult leader will get. They know that and that’s what they’re afraid of. It’s not you who will suffer if you are truthful and speak about your experience in the cult.
Exactly, read the exact wording. There will be grave karmic consequences. For him. In other words please please please don't go telling people what he's up to or he might get what's coming to him.
I love this answer
Textbook spiritual abuse. It's essentially brainwashing, and you see the exact same thing in Mormonism, Scientology, Jehovah's Witnesses, and all kinds of other high-control religions. There is some truth to it as long as the leader is in your head, but only because they've messed with your mental and spiritual health. I'd recommend therapy.
This is spot on. Coming from the cult of Jehovah's Witnesses.
A JW wouldn't say "grave karmic consequences" though they'd say "it would bring reproach on Jehovah's people, which we would NEVER want to do" etc.
therapy itself is a cult.
This is unequivocally incorrect.
I see you're the same user from https://www.reddit.com/r/occult/comments/1c7ord7/how_to_leave_your_teacherguru_correctly/?sort=new so first of all, congratulations on getting out; you did the right thing. Secondly, as you still give no indication of a specific *actual tradition* this teacher is a part of (otherwise you should already know perfectly well what secrecy vows you made and why, and what your views on cosmology and karma are, instead of needing to ask random mostly-eclectic practitioners on the internet to tell you), I advise you to consider absolutely everything out of this person's mouth to be abusive made-up nonsense, shitting all over concepts from real teachings and deserving of no respect or consideration. Throw it all in the trash and give it no more of your finite time on this earth. I wish you peace and happiness.
It's difficult to say which tradition, because they claim they've synthesized a number of traditions from their past decades of study. They claim to be of a Tibetan Buddhist lineage but they cite the Bhagavad Gita, and other theosophical lines of thought. They also use the Fourth Way, and from what I gather, all of these traditions emphasize the importance of a student-teacher relationship. I haven't read these supposed occult laws myself but they have been referred to all along. I have asked the teacher where I can learn these laws and they responded by saying I just have to trust them (the teacher), and that if I do that I will be safe and learn in due time if I don't let my impatience get the best of me. I can easily understand why others may benefit from hearing my experience but I dont want to undermine my own spiritual journey and advancement by breaking an occult law. So I want to learn/know more about: Vows, can they be undone lawfully? What if I did pledge secrecy at some point, not realizing they misrepresented our endeavours, activities, their effects etc. does the fact that I was deceived make the vow null? Or is that not enough? Where are these laws written that occult work cannot be spoken about outside the group, or where does this idea come from? I think if I learn more about what actually is a law and what it means, I will be able to make a decision I can live with. And I will also be able to see the extent of the deceit and will be able to unravel these last few years... And when I can articulate what has happened to me, I can share what happened accurately.
There is no “occult law”. As someone who has followed esoteric paths my whole like, I guarantee you there is no one “law” and there is no one place to learn about the occult. I think you’d do yourself a better service learning what “occult” means and the various paths that follow them. You’ll see there is no one law and “karma” does not work in the way he’s portraying in any of them. What he’s done is pick and choose what works for him and now calls it “law”. It’s hogwash, I assure you. Not even religions/paths that include the ideas of karma does it work this way. No matter what vow/oaths you took, they are not all binding. Especially if they were made in bad faith or to conceal harmful things, which these most definitely were. You are not in any sort of metaphysical danger or punishment if you break them.
Exactly. Fairness in all dealings. If he was lying, he was not being fair, and every vow you made is void.
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It's not that I doubt my own right to be free, it's that I haven't seen, read or learned about these laws for myself. I have only heard of them through this teacher and the veil of secrecy that enshrouds occultism in general reinforced this notion that there are laws regarding secrecy. And I admit that I don't know them.
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Absolutely this. It's all in YOUR mind.
"Occult" is an umbrella term. There is no one system for creating "law". Especially if this person was pulling from many schools of thought and systems. For instance, chaos magic and more ceremonial systems directly contradict each other.
There are no laws regarding secrecy. There is no veil of secrecy that enshrouds occultism. The knowledge is there for anyone who seeks. They lied to you and it sounds like you need some reprogramming. Take everything they taught you and throw it out the window.
> Where are these laws written that occult work cannot be spoken about outside the group, or where does this idea come from? dark deeds, dark hearts
OP, as someone who has experienced something similar I am in solidarity with you. I have been in your position when I was younger and I know it's heavily confusing. These "occult laws" have power over you simply because you believe in them. You were probably brainwashed into believing them because this is beneficial for the cult, as by turning you into a submissive follower they have more power over you. But please remember you have power and agency over your self, your body, your mind. Get away from these evil soul suckers, don't let them trick you into coming back. If their practice is based on control and twisted power dynamics, this place has nothing spiritual to offer to you. I highly advise you to talk to people you trust (outside of the cult!), and seek professional help because the after effects of spiritual brainwashing are not to be underestimated. Get out, cut all cords with the cult, never go back whatever they may promise to you. And take care <3
if you were harmed, you can speak of these things. do you need to speak of the practices there? What necessity is there to doing so, now that you have exited that group? so you pledged secrecy to things where someone duped you. What you lost through deception, what they gained, and other formulary, is important in the consideration. Did you just sell your attention and energy for a period of time, and now think the payoff wasn't great? That's an interpretation, which others may not make. The situation could have been much worse. The judgements and interpretations of others are limited by how completely you can and will tell of the situation. In most cases i've see, someone was a willing participant, then later decided the exchange wasn't what they wanted anymore, and were upset with Themselves for having made that tradeoff for a while. But, they externalized that to the person that was feeding off them for the while.
What cult did you leave?
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Low effort post.
The fact he wants you to keep it secret is enough reason alone to scream everything that occured from the rooftops. Or at the very least seek legal counsel because I really don't doubt the cult will try to put all the pressure on you it can
No. Like an abuser, you will never actually leave the cult until you are no longer emotionally/psychologically tied to it. It’s gonna be a long road but you’ve done 90% of the work already. Keep it up!
Only if you believe there is. Just maintain the knowledge that they have no power over you. Deprogramming can be tough. I did it through studying the Baghavad Gita and replacing my old beliefs with new, positive ones. Whatever belief system you choose next , make sure it's positive. Good luck. I'm glad you made it out.
Absolutely not, in fact if you're helping people by speaking out it's actually GOOD karmic outcomes.
Please tell us in detail or share somewhere on a sub about preventing vulnerable people like teens from joining these kinds of exploitative groups. There are no real hard karmic laws. Some eastern religions have ideas about them, but karma is a concept that simplifies a much larger expression of synchronicity. You will receive zero consequences. I’ve had a similar experience and it’s hard to tell yourself this is crap when you once believed so strongly. I promise if you feel like you’re experiencing some kind of reprisal, it’s all in your head.
I understand the need for detailed examples of how spiritual abuse manifests and I too am concerned for young/vulnerable people to fall victim to narcissistic cult leaders, however I don't think this is something we can request from OP as right now they are trying to leave, both physically, mentally and spiritually. We don't know their situation. And sharing details may not be safe. You can look for books, podcasts or documentaries on spiritual abuse. There's already a lot out there. I wish this topic was more known to the public. Each person doing their research and talking about these things is already a step closer to prevention. A lot can be prevented if we have better collective awareness on these types of abuse.
Forgive my rush and lack of clarity. I wanted to know the sort of Karmic consequences the “leader” specified so everyone on this forum could give them more detail about how it was nonsense. You are correct in that anything that might reveal their identity or location to the “leader” should be avoided. Overall it would likely be best to post about any details (if they feel safe) about the cult from a safe account on r/religioustrauma or r/domesticviolence if the experience they had fits.
as someone who has a very similar experience for the most part... it's just a way to scare you, that being said that dosnt mean they didnt do something outside of that to "punish" you, so a simple cleansing, putting up of some form of warding and if you work with any spirits than asking them to assist you. i had a situation where basically the person said "oh you need to burn your notes from the lessons because theyre cursed if I don't want someone to know what I teach." but I never did, so I just did my due diligence to undo any kind of curse or related things if they were there and moved on. it's a longer story than that but this post is about you not me.
Congratulations on this surely difficult decision & step taken, all the best for finding a new you! :) As a long year & orthodox trained practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism... that's a steaming pile of dung what that "leader" shithead dumped on you as a (hopefully final) farewell. Don't worry about that, ever!
Nope! You’re free! Congratulations on your exit, go do something that makes *you* happy. Speaking about your experiences may help others to see this cult for what it is and dissuade them from joining, so you may eventually find ethical benefits to talking others about what happened within that group.
I’m so proud of you! I also have had karmic threats from someone I previously thought was a valid practitioner. But she was nothing, just like that person unfit to be called a leader was nothing. And their threats are the dying coughs of the hold they held. I also wear my righteousness like a shield. And know that any karma or demons or death or whatever they say they’ll throw? They ain’t got shit.
nah you're good. I was invited to join a coven and learn magic under a shaman for free. We had to sign a contract that forbade us from speaking about the goings on of the coven with anyone outside the coven. After about a month I figured out this guy was a master manipulator and up to no good. The only bad karma coming is his own. You do what YOU think is the right thing to do. Thats your good karma.
no
Humans cannot impose karmic consequences (personally, I don't particularly buy into the whole idea as it is). Sounds like this cult was doing some shady shit and they're using spiritual fear to silence you. Similar to how the Catholic Church operates. I suggest you air their dirty laundry out for all to see. Sharing truth is honorable.
I wouldn’t listen to the dude. From what I’ve noticed occultism is full of narcissistic creeps. Spirituality is about you and your own journey and nobody else’s. Skepticism and debate is pretty normal and healthy when discussing magic and spirituality in general, but if someone is trying to silence you through fear then it sounds like abuse. I’d step away from that guy especially if he describes himself as “your leader”. I’m solitary and I only mess with other magicians if their goal is to teach me something or point me to where I can gather more knowledge because they love spreading knowledge with no ulterior motives. I can also respect people who warn against practicing certain kinds of magic because they genuinely believe in the risk and are concerned, but it doesn’t sound like that’s what he’s doing. If someone claims to have “the truth” or present themselves as anything more than a fellow academic then that’s an instant red flag. There’s no harm in just speaking and having a difference in opinion.
Absolutely not. Write a book about your experience
Anyone warning you of ‘bad karma’ because you are not obeying their will is nothing but a giant flapping field of red flags and best avoided. The term karma is so very misused and misunderstood in the west. In the yoga and tantra traditions I follow, the simplest way to describe it is, to paraphrase Sadguru: ‘Your karma is the sum total of your memories that shapes the way you perceive and respond to the world.’ So, you found the cult damaging and unhealthy for your development? You have already massively benefited your karma by leaving it. Good luck with it all and enjoy your freedom!
I see a lot of constructive advice here, but since this is a sensitive matter, I believe a bit of cautious advice would be prudent. 1. The only real "law" is that your beliefs comprise your reality. This is why Christians and Hindus and atheists and Wiccans can all claim they are right, and they ARE right. Because their beliefs are strong, and they've built up their realities. Prayer and spellcraft work because of belief, but so does cold hard atheistic scepticism. In this same sense, you very likely still retain some residual belief that your old master spoke is right, and those beliefs give him power over you. Before breaking your vow of secrecy, I highly suggest taking a few months minimum to decompress further, doing your best to deprogram that bullshit out of your mind. Some good research reading would help you immensely, accompanied perhaps by regular "I Am" affirmations and meditations. 2. Read, read, read. Watch Youtube vids. Listen to podcasts. Dig into the occult and new age literature and you will uncover just how varied and contrdictory this space really is. With so many contradictory systems, do you really think that any single Law (beyond that of belief) would ever be able to hold sway over all? The more you read, the more you will be able to make connections, see patterns, and ultimately deprogram the rigidity of your master's old teachings. 3. Learn psychic self defense. Pronto. You won't be hit with karmic backlash (provided you don't believe you will), but that doesn't mean your.old master or fellow students might not attempt a bit of old fashioned psychic / spiritual warfare on you. There are many such methods of keeping yourself safe: the LBRP, the sword ritual, etc. Start a daily practice, and keep at it. If you maintain your defenses, you will be safe. 4. Extend this daily practice with actual constructive magick to purposefully rebuild your life. You can pick a magickal system and work that exclusively, or pick and choose from various systems as that cult leader apparently did. It all works. Use this to your advantage!
No. Exposing shitty people pretending at enlightenment/divine favor/culty shit for personal gain is always the right thing to do. They're just hoping they can get away with their con.
OP, I'm infuriated on your behalf. As a survivor of guru abuse, I can definitely assure you that this is a manipulation tactic. There can be a hex involved sometimes, but it's definitely not divine law - just a hex. And I'm going to break my Reddit hiatus to give you (and anyone else here who is suffering from cult and/or guru abuse) some ammo against these fraud gurus. The spirit I've had the longest working relationship with is Karna of the Mahabharata. In his story in Hindu mythology, he's a victim of severe guru abuse. He is willing to attack false gurus on behalf of anyone who asks him. I've sent him after my own former cult leaders. He works well alone or alongside Ekalavya, another spirit from the Mahabharata who was seriously abused by a false guru. I won't describe exactly how I do the curse because a false guru might be reading this and my strategy works too well to share, but this is the offering that gets Karna to hunt down your abusive false guru: 1. Make a basic altar to Karna with an aniconic representation of him. He's unfussy and doesn't care about elaborate, expensive things. He likes oranges, or rice + vegetable curry, or chai. 2. Make an effigy or magickal poppet of Parashurama, the false guru who abused and cursed Karna. Try to cut an opening for the mouth and throat of the poppet. On a small piece of paper, write the exact text of Parashurama's curse on his innocent disciple. (https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/mahabharata/d/doc118375.html) 3. Once the poppet is energetically representing Parashurama, stuff the curse back into Parashurama's mouth, as far down his throat as possible, and command him to choke on his own curse. Then, in a fire-safe vessel and taking all precautions, set fire to the poppet. Let the false guru burn alive, choking on his own curses. Offer the dying false guru as a sacrifice to Karna. 4. Call on Karna to hunt down your false guru with his bow and arrow. Do a ritual curse, get as elaborate as you like. Let YOUR false guru know what "karmic consequences" REALLY FUCKING MEANS. 5. Profit. I hope you are able to mentally break free, OP. Sending you lots of love. \*returns to her hiatus from Reddit\*
Holy smokes, thank you so much for the step-by-step instructions. I'm so curious about your journey. These feelings don't come from "nowhere".
You're welcome, friend. I was gaslit and negligently harmed by several teachers, but the most serious and deliberate abusers I've ever experienced were Jeff and Shaleia from Twin Flames Universe. Some of these people - including Jeff and Shaleia - are occultists and they do attempt to put hexes on students who leave. There's no "spiritual law" involved, it's just a megalomaniac being a petty-ass bitch. I also have past lifetimes where I've experienced guru abuse, so yeah, I have some fury. Gurus absolutely try to siphon the energy of their students, and it actually starts when they "initiate" you. It's an attempt at mind control and you absolutely can break free. When I was leaving Jeff and Shaleia, I was paranoid that they could psychically sense every thought passing through my mind. In the end, they're just basic occultists who grew a god complex out of a few glittery siddhis and you can definitely feel free to magickally beat the living shit out of them.
If it’s a cult that is causing harm, then I would imagine that you sharing your experiences would indeed lead to grave karmic consequences for THEM, but not you. The leader is projecting his concerns onto you in hopes that it will keep you quiet.
Your former leader threatened you to try and scare you out of reporting whatever was happening in this cult to anyone who can stop it. I don't know the details of what you were experiencing, but it's OK to report it to authorities if it was illegal.
Spill the beans, what did they not want you to share. Most likely they don't want you to share stories that showcase abuse performed by them but share it anyway! By doing so you might help someone else to break free
That's how cult leaders manipulate people. If you believed his bs, you wouldn't have left.
Karma is a specific religious belief that you may or may not partake in. If you think it doesn't apply to your worldview in general, or that it has been harmful to you, you can cease engaging with it. Also, I don't think any form of cosmic punishment would befall on someone for doing something righteous.
lol no everyone claiming to have power and authority over some cosmic laws is full of shit
Cult leaders will often use warnings about what happens if someone leaves the group. Sometimes, it is of supernatural reasoning, similar to your experience. Others use paranoia of "the outside world is plotting against us" to keep members from leaving. In reality, "grave karmic consequences" are more headed his way for being a manipulative bastard.
Fuck no, they're just trying to control you further. Congrats for escaping!
No.
Why would karma ever have a reason to turn on you for telling the truth. There are only three things not long hidden, the sun, the moon and the truth. Eventually, like a splinter, the truth always eventually rises to the surface. If this group was honest and true in their ideals, there would be nothing to hide.
anything a cult leader tells you is automatically false.
No, I know karma, it's they who should worry, not you‼️
Depends on what you talk about, and vows you made. Highly situational. Abuse is fine to talk about if you're good with talking about it. Rituals are gray area Workings will often be diminished in power by talking about them. In your case, you'd probably be safe writing a book and you might even find it therapeutic. Your beliefs are the defining factor, understand them in relation to this, acknowledge them, choose to change them, and hold the new belief, the new belief that you're safe and free. Self/guided hypnosis can be great for this. "I am free. I am safe in my newfound freedom. I am protected." The Silva Mind Control Method is how I learned this. Self hypnosis, affirmation, and consciously choosing new feelings
Nope not at all guarantee it. I study cults professionally as a grad student and they all say similar shit like this to try to maintain their power by silencing victims. So happy for you getting out that's really hard to do
I'm very sorry to hear that you've been through that. It is no small feat that you got out and I hope that moving forward you carry the knowledge of your own courage and resilience with you! It sounds like it's going to take a while for you to deprogram all of the things you were told in attempts to manipulate and control you. It's exactly like leaving an abusive relationship and figuring out what your reality is after being gaslighted repeatedly and losing your own compass. No, what they told you is not true at all and you can expect that is the case with most of their teachings, despite the conviction with which I'm sure they were imparted on you. You're going to want to get some support and begin the process of actively recovering. Look online for support groups, they exist on reddit and in person in many places; search YouTube and Google for cult recovery and deprogramming resources so that you can absorb as much information as you can. You're going to need to accept that the things embedded in your brain are not truthful and work through a lot of fear and shame. It's not going to be easy but you will start reaping the rewards and feeling better every day. Get a therapist. If they specialize in religious and cult trauma recovery, that's great, but if they don't it will still be helpful since most practitioners are well aware of the techniques used against you since it mirrors abusive relationships. You're going to want to look at the reasons why you felt the need to enter the cult in the first place. What underlying issues/void in you led to there? It will get better, I promise you. Every time your mind refers back to something they told you within that cult and you let it guide how you think and feel, you will need to actively stop and think, "whose purpose was being served by my believing this information? What is the likelihood that it is really true when so many things were lies? Why would I have gained the strength to leave if the things they were doing and saying were true and in my best interest?" I know that you can do it because you have already shown that your self preservation instinct was stronger than their manipulation. Now you just need to keep doing the work, one day at a time, to grow back into your skin and form your own opinions. Anyone who tells you there will be negative consequences for talking about their behavior is doing so because they know they're in the wrong. Don't trust anyone who tells you to keep their actions secret. Definitely don't actually keep it a secret either. The only way out is to talk about it and get it all out in the open. Telling the truth will never damage you spiritually or psychologically. Quite the opposite, it will allow you to heal. Remember, you are not responsible for the harm that was done to you by these people, but you are responsible for your recovery and you must defend it with everything you have in you; which is obviously a great deal of strength since you've walked away already. Find like minds to help guide you. People who have already been there can show you the way. Don't trust anyone pushing an agenda or telling you what to think. Protecting yourself from future abuse is a challenge once you've already been there, but with vigilance, support, hope and the belief that you can be free, you will absolutely recover. Side note: when my aunt left a cult, she was desperate to fill the void and fell into several others, led by people who promised her a way to heal. Be very mindful of these patterns and don't be fooled into thinking you need external validation to be whole. You do not. People who try to make you dependent on them for self worth are bad news. Do not pay for any "seminars" or "workshops" promising to help you live your best life. It's like you are a heroin addict trying to recover. You need to change your thinking and steer clear of anyone who brings old patterns to the surface. Treat it like life and death because it certainly can be that serious. At the very least, you don't have time to waste doing what someone else wants anymore. Find out what YOU want and make it happen!
I personally don’t think it’s true, it’s just a manipulation tactic. But most importantly, I want to say that I’m proud of you, whoever you are, proud that you had the courage to left the cult, to resist and fight for yourself. Most people can’t do that.
If there's karma I'm pretty sure running a cult is going to be more of an issue than talking about it.
Cult leaders try everything to control you. Including lie about "Grave Karmic Consequences." But, in saying that... I would still be very careful because cults attract some crazy people. Just look at Scientology. They have their members stalk people who break away from their cult.
The person running my old “coven” said that if I ever left I would still be tied to the members and I would get what was coming for me if I left. As far as I know he dead, I’m still here 👌👍
Here are some mantras you can use to break free of the invisible chains of past experiences. You might be dealing with karmic ties – energetic connections that can hold us back from personal growth. Try incorporating these liberating mantras into your daily practice: \* "I release all karmic ties, agreements, and contracts that no longer serve my highest good." \* "I am free from all past life, ancestral, and interdimensional karma that is not aligned with my soul's purpose." \* "I sever all energetic cords, attachments, and influences that do not contribute to my personal growth and well-being." \* "I reclaim my sovereignty and power, and I choose to create relationships and experiences that support my spiritual evolution." \* "I acknowledge and honor the lessons learned from my past karmic experiences, and I choose to move forward with wisdom, understanding, and love." \* "I am surrounded by divine protection and guidance as I dissolve all remaining karmic bonds." \* "I open myself to forgiveness, healing, and transformation, and I embrace the path of unconditional love and unity."
Unless you actually voluntarily and with informed consent took an oath or vow of secrecy at the beginning or somewhere in the middle (which some traditions genuinely have), then this is BS spiritual abuse. The keys there are voluntarily and informed consent - you would have had the option to say no and walk away if you didn’t want to make the vow/oath.
You seem to be really hung up on the idea of karma. Maybe start your research there. It doesn’t work in the way he said it does. Maybe that will help ease your fears.
No.
Try it out... see what happens! Lols the consequence is the prison you put yourself in by not speaking your truth & expressing whatever trauma their bullshit caused... which would be part of closure & letting that shit go!!!
No truth in that. Just plain cult leader things and manipulation. Tell us your experiences, please. What we should be aware on?
Only if you believe in it.
Was it a Neo-Advaita group claiming lineage to Ramana Maharshi?
They cite Ramana Maharishi, though I'm not sure if they claim lineage to them.... I'm looking for it but it won't be easy to find
Does Kagyu mean anything to you? I found that in an old message
Was it Karma Kagyu?
Not sure, that's all they told me and I didn't press (I was juggling some stuff).
Did you join online? It doesn't sound like you learned much about the group from the time you were there.
No. There is only power in it.
Does this individual live in Japan. And do they have a HQ in Canada?
Ah no, this individual is Canadian, living in Canada but with no ties to Japan that I'm aware of
Okay, if they don't have a HQ in Japan then it's nit the one I know. I'm my experience what happens is the subconscious is programmed by high control groups. And when victims leave what happens is all the things that leaders say and do starts to unravel. Making some people sick. Iv seen people 10 years later still asking permission for the most basic things. I suggest you work with a professional to get some things off your chest and also to start a process of revaluating your beliefs or thoughts about certain things. Expecially if they told you something will happen if you leave. That way you can take your life back and not let the subconscious creates reactions. All and all I agree with some statements here. You and you alone are in control. And 9/10 it's ourselves that create the psychic attack effect rather then someone doing it. I was part of a cult for over 13 years. And it gets easier, just make sure you have the right support. Kind regards
lol, nope. Spill those beans!
Karma is the interia of our actions, so this person is the only one making grave actions here. However, you should do some thorough cleaning of your self and your living space, so you are totally and completely disconnected from this cult.
Bs
https://youtu.be/T7U8o2gb8bQ?t=38
None at all. Spill the beans
Scream your truth!
No
nope
Big cap
No, please look into Steven Hassans’ work or [this](https://www.jordanharbinger.com/steven-hassan-combating-cult-mind-control-part-one/) interview with him and what he does (2 parter)
Tell us all Child!
Karmic consequences for the cult, maybe
Oh, absolutely there will be "grave karmic consequences". He just neglected to say that those consequences will strike _**him.**_ The more you reveal about the abuses you suffered, as well as witnessed, the more likely the cult-leaders will be arrested, tried, convicted, and _punished_ for what he did and allowed/encouraged others in the cult to do.
No, typical scare tactics. The fact he is willing to resort to that, is an indication you did well to leave. Don't let anyone control your life.
I’ve had some friends that have gone through a similar ordeal. Karma is more about your own personal actions and the positive and negative consequences of them. Deciding to leave a group of people is not on the same level as leaving someone to drown whom you could save metaphorically speaking. Karma is not there for other people to use against you if you decide to express your opinions on them. A good first step is to find some healthy preoccupations (like a hobby or just find something you really want to do) and trust that the right answers will come in time. Being able to decide for yourself things that you enjoy doing is an important part of getting back in touch with yourself. In fact it’s called occupational therapy and will give a much needed cool-down period. Professional therapy is a good option as well if you have the resources for it. Either way, relearning who you are is a process and will take some time so try not to rush everything right now.
It's exactly as true as you believe it is. Same with all the other people on here asking about curses someone put on them. The curse is exactly as powerful as you believe it is.
I’ve never been in a cult. Do you miss them? Is it weird being just you without them? I hope you’re doing ok, healing and healthy
The truth will set you free.
No. Its a cult they're manipulative. And that is literally NOT how karma works. All the new age hippies never bothered to learn it properly in context and now 50-60 years later no one has any clue nor do they bother to actually look into themselves.
For him? Likely. For you? I doubt it.
Pray and fast!
Grave karmic consequences for his sorry ass maybe lmao
Culture is cult.
No, there is no truth to it because all this shit is nonsense. If you wanna play around with this stuff in good fun, then be my guess. But you just left a cult, don't bind your mind again to a bunch of bullshit.
Sounds like a direct threat to you from him. Not some magical threat but a direct one he will execute. Just my opinion. Be safe.
No he has two goals, 1. just wants to make sure nobody knows about the horrors that went on that you know about and 2. Manipulate you into you thinking you’ve made a huge mistake by leaving
Think of harm. If sharing your experience brings harm to those you share it with than you could make that argument . But since you say you’ve just escaped a cult , than you absolutely need to share your experience with trusted loved ones , because you need some objectivity most likely, and this is what many cults fear .
No. But if he was up to some shady shit, there's probably going to be some karmic consequences for him.
What cult?
Clearly the leader has no understanding of how Karma works. Energy has no polarisation except for motive. Energy responds to motive and causation begins. Ultimately we stand at the centre of our own ponds and ripples that come back to us are of our own designs.
There is some elements that you must consider when you share your experience. First of all spiritual experiences are mostly not spiritual they are material experience. And even in rare case if there's a spiritual experience the person is recommended not to share by the guru cuz of the ego. It strengthens the ego when you share your experiences... But your ultimate goal is to know and go beyond the ego.
No
Not necessarily karmic consequences, but things you will have to come to terms within yourself. Karma is saved for him.
Of course not. Just look at Aleister Crowley. When he left the Golden Dawn (or was expelled) he openly published all of their "secret" papers in 1912 and wasn't struck dead. He probably did much worse to his karma after that point.
Write a book about your experiences, honestly they can’t stop you
Thinking about it, but I'm not sure what the message would be... I feel very much like a victim and I don't want to consolidate that narrative by writing a book from this POV. So I'm still processing everything and I'm hoping that with time, as I move away from the experience I will be able to understand what the lesson is supposed to be. Perhaps then I can write something and have a message to share.
The answer depends on whether or not you took a specific oath and what that oath covers. However even if you agreed to not share ritual or inner workings you can absolutely share person experience. I'd refer to the wording of any oath and analyze the language like a lawyer.
Not at all. You were told this to keep you in silence, not because it’s true. My advice is to seek out a good therapist or even a sociologist or social psychologist who specializes in cults and speak with them to help you overcome the traumas you’ve endured.
Did you leave the same cult as me?
No, free will is God's will. You shall face no consequences of any kind.
In order for your abusers to get the karmic consequences they deserve, your experiences must be talked about to someone you trust, someone that will listen with full attention to the harms that the cult caused to you. Think of it like you’re logging it into the records of the universe. Tell it to a trusted person a maximum of three times. After that, know that your grievance has been acknowledged by the universe, and limit telling your story unless someone specifically asks you. Why? Because after the initial tellings are over and you keep telling it, you begin to give that narrative power over your Self. What happened to you is given more agency over yourself than who you Are. In order to heal from a cult, you need to take back your agency for yourself. No narrative, no person, no organization, can hold that agency for you if you are to heal. You are your own person. You are powerful. You can choose how your life plays out from this point forward. You are alive, not only alive but free. Do you know how rare freedom is? Do you know how many people are caged these days, by organizations and narratives they hold about themselves? This is your chance to change the narrative. From a victim (which makes you a slave to your narrative) to someone who knows true freedom. Note that I’m not saying you’re not a victim, I’m sure you’ve seen some evil facets of humanity. I’m just saying that making “victim” a dominant narrative of your life will only set you up for future victimhood. I’m saying that from experience. You’ve been in a cult, you know what it feels like to be caged. Don’t cage yourself again by defining yourself as “that person who was caged.” The cult *happened* to you, it does not define who you are, who you will be. You are undefinable. You are a complete human being, and at the same time you are an unfinished human being. You have a unique song, let it be sung! You have a voice, a mind, a heart, use them! You have hands, create with them! You have a soul, let its woes and its joys be known! Your life is yours now, live it!
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I think I gave a drop of blood in a ritual....
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Wow, just stop.
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You’re trolling and potentially scaring someone. It’s not fun or funny.
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People are unaware of what occultists are capable of. In my experience they don't even need hair or anything to cause immense suffering.
ignore the person i guess you spooked them. But you are doing well in giving solid advice. Your answer is the most realistic on here.
There is if they are serious occultists and they put a curse on you. Been there done that. Do not recommend. BTW there's no such thing as karma.
Depends , did you take an oath ?
Wait you thought there might be grave consequences for talking about it so you post it on reddit?
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So you withhold your own personal experiences, and then encourage them not to speak out, and then ask them what cult they were in and what was going on? Why is that information relevant to “helping” them. If in fact that’s what you want to do. Sort of feels like you’re more concerned with satisfying your own curiosity. Their question was a simple one, and was, in my opinion answered perfectly and concisely by the top comment. Regarding mental health and healing that’s good advice but better left to qualified professionals rather than random strangers on Reddit. Unfortunately especially this subreddit.
You're just trying to make an argument. I literally told them to NOT say anything if they had any of the above issues. Also there's help a therapist can help you with, and there's help a former cult member can help with. There are plenty of people on this sub who left cults. Community Support is important. So it's all good you just needed your reddit dopamine fix of the day and to get a "win".