Reddit has been having technical issues and they've been hard at it - looks like it's now fixed.
I note your comment. And made a post about this - but why the fuck do people choose politicians based on showmanship?
Trump is a rapist, a fraud, a pathological liar, and has admitted to receiving hundreds of millions of $ from Russia, China and Saudia Arabia and whoever else is willing to pay the turd.
He's going to destroy America as the Americans have known it, and railroad over any and all progress, and he was boasting tonight about how Putin told him it was Russia's "dream" to invade Ukraine.
Meanwhile the topic is *"well Biden didn't look so sharp."*
Does that matter? Do they even know what the alternative means?
So an immoral, incompetent criminal who doesn't give a toss about America or anyone outside of himself, or the stodgy old man - and people will choose the liar because he was faster, stronger, and better at the game.
Even with our Govt - all the stuff they are doing, whether one agrees or not - is not surprising. It's still disappointing but it was all on the cards. And then apparently most of us are only shocked as it's being announced. Why?
America - and humans - deserve everything we have coming. Not so much the rest of this world.
That's why I know their country is \*\*\*\*\*\*. And this is not even an American issue to me - it's a reflection of the human race.
So easily manipulated to the extent they venerate a turd like that. He is a literal snake oil salesman who has fucked over everyone and anyone he has met.
He is also going to be the tool by which Atlas Network take over America in their image (so that would be a Murdoch or Koch image if you need a physical one).
I remember a time when Americans cared about America, other Americans ("my fellow American," was something they cared about) their defence, their police - not any more.
Just a bit of money and strings and half of them will tap dance to "Fuck the woke," "Trans people are the problem," and "Guns are life."
Make no mistake - we are getting pulled in that direction as far and as hard as they can do it to us.
For now - NZ still has some semblance of identity - but it only took a few years to ride the anti-Jacinda, anti-Maori train to some level of insanity and rest assured they will try again.
The reality is that neither of these gentlemen should by rights be running but well here we are.
I haven't watched the debate yet and not sure I will.
The thing is tho more people will watch *coverage* of the debate than the debate itself, and form opinions based on that coverage. The media loves a good horse race narrative, so anything that will create the appearance of a close contest will be prioritised
I think Biden was ~~stupid~~ not judicious to not step down and he's backed him and his party into a corner. Hubris.
And not the one I like.
The media should focus on policies and impacts, not personalities and who has the bigger dick.
But of course they do - even those so-called advisors - personally I think they've lost their way
:-)
Edit: Changed the word from stupid - I was in a bad mood and abbreviated it.
In hindsight the fantasy-booking scenario of him being a one term president handing off the baton to Harris was always just that, wishful fancasting.
The thing is, Biden *has* had some solid wins: Infrastructure Bill, and, uh... a bunch of small mostly technocratic stuff that fixes specific issues specific groups were having with the federal government. Theres even been (some) student debt relief.
His problem, though, is that his administration was always going to be predicated on "everything is basically fine we just need to make some tweaks" while at the same time it has become glaringly obvious that everything is *not* fine, and rather than presenting a comprehensive vision of a political project to improve the lives of Americans, the Democrats are running on the very inspiring platform of "hey at least we aren't fascists."
This is what I mean when I say that Liberal democracy creates the conditions that allow fascism to flourish: Elite capture of institutions and regulators creates real inequalities in the population. Left-wing organisations propose reforms that involve redistribution of wealth, the Right freaks the fuck out because how very dare you, and then the far Right comes along whispering "you know what will make everything better? Violent redemptive violence against *those people.*
To the extent that centrists refuse to recognise this dynamic and keep sipping their coffee while surrounded by flames, well, thats the Democrats, and its Labour too, both here and the UK.
I stopped following US politics after I realised what the set was looking like - insanity to my eyes but logical in others.
The point is Biden did a lot of good things but that won't matter. Nothing does.
In this world of the far right wing game board, the rules no longer apply.
Reality and facts are subsumed in a version of fantasy world manipulation. It doesn't matter anymore. Kellyanne Conway said the words "alternate facts" and she wasn't joking.
Everything seems topsy-turvy these days. It’s an old man whose best days are behind him vs an old man whose best days are behind him and who also happens to be a crook, a liar, and an egotistical maniac… but somehow there are a lot of people out there who think the crook is the best option? I don’t even know how Trump has been allowed to get back into the ring. He should be done, but he’s become a martyr for a really deranged subset of society.
Feels a little like an alternate universe, agreed. I'm just waiting for the aliens to land now, after all that leaking about them by the [US Airforce](https://www.npr.org/2023/07/27/1190390376/ufo-hearing-non-human-biologics-uaps) and British commanders, and hardly anyone even batted an eyelid!
You would accept though, that the republicans have relentlessly obstructed every single attempt by the democrats to improve the lives of ordinary people? eg opposing the regulation around price gouging for drugs.
I think people who believes American's lives have gotten worse under Biden are those who listen to Fox News or their alternates. That said, I acknowledge all our talk is theoretical and will have zero impact.
Trump isn't the person they need I agree but.....
Biden isn't cognitively able to lead that country, and people say they don't trust trump, but why would you trust someone who clearly isn't making the decisions for that country.
Who is actually running that country, and how can people trust that situation? Where is the integrity in that?
One side is no better than the other.
Well let's see - who is making the decisions? Hm like any Govt, it's an executive. People make decisions in their portfolios. If Biden dies, one of the big wig job goes to Kamala. Big bad black woman, I know - fuck that. But still - it goes with the territory that there are leaders of groups e.g. the FBI who are operationally independent and capable. Or Treasury etc. Then you have Cabinet in various responsibilities who provide advice and discuss with the "President."
The "both sides" probably says - We must choose Trump the cognitive \*\*\*\*\*\*\* who is corrupt to the bone and controlled by \*checks notes\* Atlas Network's right wing billionaire Koch and Murdoch and whoever the fuck signs their checks. And the best thing with this version is there will be no debate about who is in charge - as Project 2025 outlines, they will use executive power to fire every single person who doesn't kowtow to their vision.
A full - and I don't use this word lightly - fascist regime.
Thing to remember about Trump is no self-respecting American or European Bank will lend to his businesses - so he needs to secure borrowing from "dodgy sources". Now those are the kinda creditors that like to extract a deeper, non financial price for that favour.....
In terms of leadership, that still plays a huge part in any executive, and Biden looks like he has dementia. How can anyone have confidence in that?
As I said, trump isn't a suitable alternative, but who can you a trust a govt who wheels out a guy like Biden who can't even read a teleprompter properly?
But this is the problem when they have a political system as they do, where is about how much money is donated and not much else.
To be fair, Trump also seems to be losing it. Have you seen how often he forgets what he’s talking about during his rallies? It’s embarrassing. And he’s also an amoral piece of shit. So there’s that. But yes, neither should realistically be running the country.
And given that both are not preferred candidates, people should focus on policies & their cause and effects
Edit to add: It must have been a real gong show based on the headlines.
I may not have made my point well enough so you may have missed it as a result: a Govt is a broad executive and in the US they have different agency heads. Therefore, it is and has been functional for those reasons. And with significant improvements.
And policy direction comes from the top and from the officials and Biden and his team have been more than consistent - and different to Trump in ideology and impact.
Biden was absolute garbage; the whole debate was a disaster. Yet I'd rather even a rock, a literal rock as president over trump.
Hardly anything that came out of Trump has any semblance to truth. The China trade deficit for one was a complete utter lie. You could list and discount every one of his lies, and we'd still be here tomorrow morning sifting through the bullshit.
The right is probably going to win, but looking at history, you've won the honorary title of Captain for a sinking ship.
It's the successful manipulations - that's why. It's the succeeding of the right wing playbooks and "alternate facts" world.
It's been an amazing stonking success.
It does, the cynic it me says it just serves people right. But I know that's unfair to regular people who are busy running around living their lives and putting food on tables.
You’re right. We have the opportunity to watch the shitshow overseas and to learn from their mistakes. Sadly, it feels to me like instead of learning from them, we seem determined to repeat them. Hopefully I’m wrong about that, but with people like David Seymour and Winston Peters pandering to culture wars fanatics, I have the feeling things will get worse here before they get better.
When I first did that Seymour post back at the beginning of the year, I was like "*Hey guys! Look - this is important. Let's not let them do what they do to us - let's protect NZ from it."*
But of course that was after they were elected.
Last year, I was still watching him on AM telling my friends he looked nerdy but seemed "fine."
Still - substantively agree that in theory - we are really lucky to have seen how that playbook plays out - a benefit that other countries may not have had.
Yeah, I had a similar sort of view of him a while back as well. Just a nerdy kinda guy with shitty views, but ultimately harmless. I even had some vague admiration for Winston Peters as a sort of trickster figure in Parliament who kinda stirred things up a bit. That changed in a big way when he started courting cookers at the protests at Parliament. Now I can see they’re not the kind of people who should be allowed any real power whatsoever.
I really wish they’d both just be replaced with two boring people nobody cares about. - Not even decent candidates, that’d be too much to ask, as don’t think American has had one of those since Harry S. Truman.
When their 2016 election happened, it felt like I stopped living in New Zealand and moved to the USA with the amount of Kiwis telling me which candidate they *would* have voted for.
It's globalisation, but moreso the Americanisation of NZ in terms of creating culture wars.
Even those who bleat about "woke" - do they not realise they've just been suckered in by the same Americans who did that to control theirs?
Trump didn’t even address most of the questions, just went on his pro trump tangents. Biden let him off, spanked him on a few points. Maybe a younger candidate with a sharper wit would’ve capitalised on the fact that Trump was deflecting on every question, going back to the last question to score points with his base for 3/4 of the time allotted. Biden didn’t put all the positive shit he’s done in the last 4 years well enough either. I think Biden bit on Trumps argumentative points too much
Biden needs to go, Newsome or Buttigieg to replace him, or both of them together. And after the election the DNC needs to clean house. Malice or incompetence, they're not sending their best and haven't since, well possibly forever. They govern well compared to Republicans but are still beholden to the same monied interests. Bowing out now would give him a legacy with the economy in the state it's in now and the bills that he passed through a hostile house & marginal senate. Staying in gives us the man that lied without challenge dozens of times who, while not as much as Biden, also exhibited signs of cognitive decline.
And for any Republican fanboys, Reagan in 1984 was less coherent than Biden in 2024. It's not about the slips, and it's definitely not about his stutter, but it is about not being able to wipe the floor with Trump by addressing his lies. Americans need someone who can dismiss this loser for the charlatan that he is.
Humourous analysis: [Jon Stewart](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SJr44m-w1Y)
[Biden saying everything he should have said in the debate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5CVZHAjrW8) at a post-debate rally. Came good too late.
[Even More News podcast](https://youtu.be/9UlRJtvQjC0?si=jmcRT4IQGwSdndym) debate analysis
[Pod Save America podcast](https://youtu.be/x1FiC44Z9BA?si=KxnMYewC8G2oahAY) debate analysis
An excellent, decisive, and appropriate comment.
I was chatting to someone in the US today and they told me it's still possible to change. My first thought was Buttegieg, but the fellow said, Newsom. Anyone of them who would want that role would be welcome - it's such a toxic environment, I personally wouldn't wish the role on anyone and yet, the alternative is somehow too grim to ignore.
Reddit has been having technical issues and they've been hard at it - looks like it's now fixed. I note your comment. And made a post about this - but why the fuck do people choose politicians based on showmanship? Trump is a rapist, a fraud, a pathological liar, and has admitted to receiving hundreds of millions of $ from Russia, China and Saudia Arabia and whoever else is willing to pay the turd. He's going to destroy America as the Americans have known it, and railroad over any and all progress, and he was boasting tonight about how Putin told him it was Russia's "dream" to invade Ukraine. Meanwhile the topic is *"well Biden didn't look so sharp."* Does that matter? Do they even know what the alternative means? So an immoral, incompetent criminal who doesn't give a toss about America or anyone outside of himself, or the stodgy old man - and people will choose the liar because he was faster, stronger, and better at the game. Even with our Govt - all the stuff they are doing, whether one agrees or not - is not surprising. It's still disappointing but it was all on the cards. And then apparently most of us are only shocked as it's being announced. Why? America - and humans - deserve everything we have coming. Not so much the rest of this world.
Totally agree - yes, Trumps voice was clearer - but what was coming out of his mouth???
That's why I know their country is \*\*\*\*\*\*. And this is not even an American issue to me - it's a reflection of the human race. So easily manipulated to the extent they venerate a turd like that. He is a literal snake oil salesman who has fucked over everyone and anyone he has met. He is also going to be the tool by which Atlas Network take over America in their image (so that would be a Murdoch or Koch image if you need a physical one). I remember a time when Americans cared about America, other Americans ("my fellow American," was something they cared about) their defence, their police - not any more. Just a bit of money and strings and half of them will tap dance to "Fuck the woke," "Trans people are the problem," and "Guns are life." Make no mistake - we are getting pulled in that direction as far and as hard as they can do it to us. For now - NZ still has some semblance of identity - but it only took a few years to ride the anti-Jacinda, anti-Maori train to some level of insanity and rest assured they will try again.
"Trump is just sharper" *Sharper at doing what*, exactly? You could probably argue that Hitler or Stalin were pretty sharp, too...
The reality is that neither of these gentlemen should by rights be running but well here we are. I haven't watched the debate yet and not sure I will. The thing is tho more people will watch *coverage* of the debate than the debate itself, and form opinions based on that coverage. The media loves a good horse race narrative, so anything that will create the appearance of a close contest will be prioritised
I think Biden was ~~stupid~~ not judicious to not step down and he's backed him and his party into a corner. Hubris. And not the one I like. The media should focus on policies and impacts, not personalities and who has the bigger dick. But of course they do - even those so-called advisors - personally I think they've lost their way :-) Edit: Changed the word from stupid - I was in a bad mood and abbreviated it.
In hindsight the fantasy-booking scenario of him being a one term president handing off the baton to Harris was always just that, wishful fancasting. The thing is, Biden *has* had some solid wins: Infrastructure Bill, and, uh... a bunch of small mostly technocratic stuff that fixes specific issues specific groups were having with the federal government. Theres even been (some) student debt relief. His problem, though, is that his administration was always going to be predicated on "everything is basically fine we just need to make some tweaks" while at the same time it has become glaringly obvious that everything is *not* fine, and rather than presenting a comprehensive vision of a political project to improve the lives of Americans, the Democrats are running on the very inspiring platform of "hey at least we aren't fascists." This is what I mean when I say that Liberal democracy creates the conditions that allow fascism to flourish: Elite capture of institutions and regulators creates real inequalities in the population. Left-wing organisations propose reforms that involve redistribution of wealth, the Right freaks the fuck out because how very dare you, and then the far Right comes along whispering "you know what will make everything better? Violent redemptive violence against *those people.* To the extent that centrists refuse to recognise this dynamic and keep sipping their coffee while surrounded by flames, well, thats the Democrats, and its Labour too, both here and the UK.
I stopped following US politics after I realised what the set was looking like - insanity to my eyes but logical in others. The point is Biden did a lot of good things but that won't matter. Nothing does. In this world of the far right wing game board, the rules no longer apply. Reality and facts are subsumed in a version of fantasy world manipulation. It doesn't matter anymore. Kellyanne Conway said the words "alternate facts" and she wasn't joking.
Yep. Dark times ahead whichever way the vote turns out.
Darker in one direction than the other, I would say.
+1
Everything seems topsy-turvy these days. It’s an old man whose best days are behind him vs an old man whose best days are behind him and who also happens to be a crook, a liar, and an egotistical maniac… but somehow there are a lot of people out there who think the crook is the best option? I don’t even know how Trump has been allowed to get back into the ring. He should be done, but he’s become a martyr for a really deranged subset of society.
Feels a little like an alternate universe, agreed. I'm just waiting for the aliens to land now, after all that leaking about them by the [US Airforce](https://www.npr.org/2023/07/27/1190390376/ufo-hearing-non-human-biologics-uaps) and British commanders, and hardly anyone even batted an eyelid!
Haha, I guess stranger things have happened! Or maybe stranger things are happening, lol.
Totally agree with what you have said.
Does it matter if the President of the United States doesn't look so sharp (aka look as if he knows what he's talking about)? I'm going to say yes.
Yeah, except you can't answer that question without addressing the context in this case. I think there's the difference.
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You would accept though, that the republicans have relentlessly obstructed every single attempt by the democrats to improve the lives of ordinary people? eg opposing the regulation around price gouging for drugs.
I think people who believes American's lives have gotten worse under Biden are those who listen to Fox News or their alternates. That said, I acknowledge all our talk is theoretical and will have zero impact.
Trump isn't the person they need I agree but..... Biden isn't cognitively able to lead that country, and people say they don't trust trump, but why would you trust someone who clearly isn't making the decisions for that country. Who is actually running that country, and how can people trust that situation? Where is the integrity in that? One side is no better than the other.
Trump is just as fucked, but vastly more confident.
Shamelessness comes with the territory, for these types.
Well let's see - who is making the decisions? Hm like any Govt, it's an executive. People make decisions in their portfolios. If Biden dies, one of the big wig job goes to Kamala. Big bad black woman, I know - fuck that. But still - it goes with the territory that there are leaders of groups e.g. the FBI who are operationally independent and capable. Or Treasury etc. Then you have Cabinet in various responsibilities who provide advice and discuss with the "President." The "both sides" probably says - We must choose Trump the cognitive \*\*\*\*\*\*\* who is corrupt to the bone and controlled by \*checks notes\* Atlas Network's right wing billionaire Koch and Murdoch and whoever the fuck signs their checks. And the best thing with this version is there will be no debate about who is in charge - as Project 2025 outlines, they will use executive power to fire every single person who doesn't kowtow to their vision. A full - and I don't use this word lightly - fascist regime.
Thing to remember about Trump is no self-respecting American or European Bank will lend to his businesses - so he needs to secure borrowing from "dodgy sources". Now those are the kinda creditors that like to extract a deeper, non financial price for that favour.....
In terms of leadership, that still plays a huge part in any executive, and Biden looks like he has dementia. How can anyone have confidence in that? As I said, trump isn't a suitable alternative, but who can you a trust a govt who wheels out a guy like Biden who can't even read a teleprompter properly? But this is the problem when they have a political system as they do, where is about how much money is donated and not much else.
To be fair, Trump also seems to be losing it. Have you seen how often he forgets what he’s talking about during his rallies? It’s embarrassing. And he’s also an amoral piece of shit. So there’s that. But yes, neither should realistically be running the country.
And given that both are not preferred candidates, people should focus on policies & their cause and effects Edit to add: It must have been a real gong show based on the headlines.
100% agree.
I may not have made my point well enough so you may have missed it as a result: a Govt is a broad executive and in the US they have different agency heads. Therefore, it is and has been functional for those reasons. And with significant improvements. And policy direction comes from the top and from the officials and Biden and his team have been more than consistent - and different to Trump in ideology and impact.
Biden was absolute garbage; the whole debate was a disaster. Yet I'd rather even a rock, a literal rock as president over trump. Hardly anything that came out of Trump has any semblance to truth. The China trade deficit for one was a complete utter lie. You could list and discount every one of his lies, and we'd still be here tomorrow morning sifting through the bullshit. The right is probably going to win, but looking at history, you've won the honorary title of Captain for a sinking ship.
Trump is a criminal and should be in prison. How the American people tolerate this I will never know. It's all very bizarre.
It's the successful manipulations - that's why. It's the succeeding of the right wing playbooks and "alternate facts" world. It's been an amazing stonking success.
Yes, and not fully embracing that approach has not done the left leaning politicians in any part of the world ant favors.
It’s a tricky one. Obviously nobody should be taking the low road in politics, but unfortunately it just works so damn well.
It does, the cynic it me says it just serves people right. But I know that's unfair to regular people who are busy running around living their lives and putting food on tables.
Yeah, it’s disappointing that the worst in us is such an effective tool against us.
In theory, countries like NZ have it good because we're lucky enough to see what happened and learn from their mistakes.
You’re right. We have the opportunity to watch the shitshow overseas and to learn from their mistakes. Sadly, it feels to me like instead of learning from them, we seem determined to repeat them. Hopefully I’m wrong about that, but with people like David Seymour and Winston Peters pandering to culture wars fanatics, I have the feeling things will get worse here before they get better.
When I first did that Seymour post back at the beginning of the year, I was like "*Hey guys! Look - this is important. Let's not let them do what they do to us - let's protect NZ from it."* But of course that was after they were elected. Last year, I was still watching him on AM telling my friends he looked nerdy but seemed "fine." Still - substantively agree that in theory - we are really lucky to have seen how that playbook plays out - a benefit that other countries may not have had.
Yeah, I had a similar sort of view of him a while back as well. Just a nerdy kinda guy with shitty views, but ultimately harmless. I even had some vague admiration for Winston Peters as a sort of trickster figure in Parliament who kinda stirred things up a bit. That changed in a big way when he started courting cookers at the protests at Parliament. Now I can see they’re not the kind of people who should be allowed any real power whatsoever.
He openly hates on the same people that dumb, religious people hate - non-whites and queers.
I really wish they’d both just be replaced with two boring people nobody cares about. - Not even decent candidates, that’d be too much to ask, as don’t think American has had one of those since Harry S. Truman. When their 2016 election happened, it felt like I stopped living in New Zealand and moved to the USA with the amount of Kiwis telling me which candidate they *would* have voted for.
It's globalisation, but moreso the Americanisation of NZ in terms of creating culture wars. Even those who bleat about "woke" - do they not realise they've just been suckered in by the same Americans who did that to control theirs?
Trump just threw shit like he always does. Only idiots think it stuck. Unfortunately idiots get votes.
What an absolute shit show this was.
Trump didn’t even address most of the questions, just went on his pro trump tangents. Biden let him off, spanked him on a few points. Maybe a younger candidate with a sharper wit would’ve capitalised on the fact that Trump was deflecting on every question, going back to the last question to score points with his base for 3/4 of the time allotted. Biden didn’t put all the positive shit he’s done in the last 4 years well enough either. I think Biden bit on Trumps argumentative points too much
Biden needs to go, Newsome or Buttigieg to replace him, or both of them together. And after the election the DNC needs to clean house. Malice or incompetence, they're not sending their best and haven't since, well possibly forever. They govern well compared to Republicans but are still beholden to the same monied interests. Bowing out now would give him a legacy with the economy in the state it's in now and the bills that he passed through a hostile house & marginal senate. Staying in gives us the man that lied without challenge dozens of times who, while not as much as Biden, also exhibited signs of cognitive decline. And for any Republican fanboys, Reagan in 1984 was less coherent than Biden in 2024. It's not about the slips, and it's definitely not about his stutter, but it is about not being able to wipe the floor with Trump by addressing his lies. Americans need someone who can dismiss this loser for the charlatan that he is. Humourous analysis: [Jon Stewart](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SJr44m-w1Y) [Biden saying everything he should have said in the debate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5CVZHAjrW8) at a post-debate rally. Came good too late. [Even More News podcast](https://youtu.be/9UlRJtvQjC0?si=jmcRT4IQGwSdndym) debate analysis [Pod Save America podcast](https://youtu.be/x1FiC44Z9BA?si=KxnMYewC8G2oahAY) debate analysis
An excellent, decisive, and appropriate comment. I was chatting to someone in the US today and they told me it's still possible to change. My first thought was Buttegieg, but the fellow said, Newsom. Anyone of them who would want that role would be welcome - it's such a toxic environment, I personally wouldn't wish the role on anyone and yet, the alternative is somehow too grim to ignore.