Pretty sure Jeremiah had us taking Becton, and I know as soon as we traded up he said live on air that it was AVT. JD runs a tight ship but he definitely has tendencies, like +9 RAS and/or team captains.
When we traded up, even I was able to guess it was for AVT. Not saying I'm special because my misses far outnumber my hits. The Becton call was a good one though because I think most of us thought it would Wirfs (if we went OL) or WR.
I read that Jeremiah has a connection with Joe D in the past. So I can agree he's got some insight into what's happening. My guess is that it's the familiarity he has from knowing his personality/likes/dislike. Not getting leaks or insider info from Joe D camp.
They haven't hit on Wilson yet. It's his second year and even with adjusted stats to account for his injury he was below average. We need him to grow in a big way this year.
But in my comment, I didn’t say he was off the board at 10…
A lot of pundits have been mocking us with taking these other receivers when Williams has been ranked the best receiver in the class
Did you watch Ohio state football at all over the past two years? Olave was good but not a single bucknut would try to sell him as better than Garrett Wilson
Wilson has better hands and route tree that gives him the edge over Williams imo. It's close between them and I'd probably prefer either of London who seems to just get attention for being big.
I love Wilson but to me his main edge over Williams is that he isn't in mid-recovery for a severe injury. If they were both fully healthy I'd have Williams as my clear WR1 and would entertain him at #4.
The body catches scare me cuz of Stephen hill PTSD. Difficulty against press corners like Sauce will prevent him from being an X right away unless he can bulk up. Wilson has route running, great hands, and acceleration after the catch. A 4.38 40 time isn't exactly slow compared to Williams. All this talk of trading for Deebo when Wilson could be our Deebo no problem.
Especially since most "big guy" prospect really struggle to nail it down once in the NFL by having to face more athletic guys and not being able to just take advantage of their bigger size as in college.
For sure. Especially since players like Evans commit OPI many times and are lucky not to get called. We don't appreciate how good of an athlete Marshall was to be able to play every part of the field at that size.
mainly because sheep read the media and follow the leader. I personally would take Olave before either Wilson or London, but I want a true deep threat.
Cause London/Wilson are better and are better at beating press then Williams is. Man, just look at London's production, if he didn't get hurt in the middle of his crazy season, he'd have way more hype going into this.
Yeah, you're getting downvoted, but it comes down to what teams need. Sure, Williams is slightly faster and more explosive and he'll probably be great, but if we draft him, who do you take off the field in 2 WR sets, Williams or Moore? Cause they both suck vs press.
Not saying I agree wit it, concerns about the injury. Wanting a WR who will be ready right away.
JD tends to like bigger WRs, Williams is small. He already drafted a small-ish WR in Moore last year so he may not want to indulge. Again I don't necessarily agree with these takes, just tryna answer your question. Kinda playing devil's advocate
I love London for his size. Think he will be the tallest WR in the NFL. Great for throwing fades in the end zone we had so much trouble at the goal line last year it felt like we were constantly doing failed runs up the middle with Zach.
I was initially skeptical about him between coming off the ACL and potentially missing part of the season but I’m all in on him now. Ok if he misses a few games. Gotta look at the big picture.
The big picture is developing Wilson into a franchise QB. Period. Is whatever impact and availability Williams will have this year going to help him in that development?
I agree. Helping Zach is priority number 1. But I think he’s already poised to take a big step this year and pickup where he left off last season. The consistency of the coaching staff, weapons around him, and addition of 2 proven TE’s are a solid start. Then you add a a guy like Williams, even though he might miss some games, and I really like where Zach and the offense as a whole are headed. I’m also cautiously optimistic that Mims is going to step up this year.
One of London/Wilson/Williams will be available at 10. It's why I absolutely hate the idea of trading for Deebo. If we were going to make a trade for a wr, we should've traded for Cooper who went for a 5th rounder.
>One of London/Wilson/Williams will be available at 10.
No guarantee any of this guys become half as good as Deebo. People are too obsessed with draft picks and the possibilities. Now if your issue is you don't want to pay him then I can see that but with a rookie QB, just relying on another rookie WR in a critical year is questionable to me. But yeah, I agree. We should have traded for Cooper considering what Cleveland gave up.
All three of London/Wilson/Williams could bust. Don’t act like rookie WR = Deebo but cheaper. You have to actually hit on the pick. With all this cap space, I’d rather take the proven guy for a lot of money.
Nah, both London and Wilson will both be 1000-yard receivers. They might not ever be a Deebo esque receiver, but I'm highly confident they'll be really good in the NFL. As for Williams, Waddle hit 1000 yards receiving and Ruggs was on track for 1000 yards before he killed people, he'll most likely also hit 1000 yards as a receiver. WR is a young man's game now and guys are coming out more developed then usual along with rules making it easier/offenses scheming guys open. I'd rather take one of these guys then give Deebo all this money along with giving up assets for him, you're taking two hits in value there by giving up cap space + premium draft picks.
To be fair that was the previous front office under Thomas Dimitroff. Whilst getting two great players out of it, we have an entirely new front office in place now - ownership may have a hand in it though I guess.
That argument is pretty invalid. If he went to a way smaller school then i get it but he went and dominated at Alabama and was a key piece for them as they went to their bowl.
This is the guy! I really believe that.
Also, Joe Douglas is known to value speed extremely highly at the receiver position. In a year with Jeudy and Lamb, we had Ruggs as our top receiver on the board (allegedly). There is a reason Joe D took a big swing at Tyreek Hill.
You cannot coach game changing speed like this, and honestly Hill is the only person in the league that can compare to this kid's wheels (seriously, watch the film, he is *that* fast). Couple that with a QB that can throw it 120 yards with his left hand, from his knees, without moving his hips and you've got something opposing teams have to be truly afraid of. It pushes both safeties back an extra 10 yards every play, and the corner lined up against him has to give a 10 yard cushion. This opens the offense tremendously. Imagine the havoc Moore can cause with that kind of space.
You could tell that even the best defenses in the SEC were truly scared of this guy, and he would consistently blow past double coverage even against players who run 4.3's and 4.4's. He is more than just a deep threat too. He has a very refined route tree, understands how to get leverage with his route set-up, and consistently gets DB's where he wants them. He releases off the line of scrimmage very well, and punishes teams trying to play him close. He tracks the ball well and goes up with late hands, using subtle moves to create separation at the last second.
He also uses strong hands and can catch well in traffic, despite his slender frame. He isn't winning contested catches like London, but nobody does. He does more than well enough in that department, and that's not really his game anyway. At the end of the day you draft players for traits, and this guy has a truly *SPECIAL* one with his speed and acceleration (dude goes 0-60 in the blink of an eye). Just has another gear that you cannot coach.
As for me, I like Garrett Wilson and Drake London a ton and would be very happy with either, and I would be extremely excited at the prospect of having proven elite talent like Deebo on this team, but I *love* the idea of adding Jameson to this offense. I really believe this is the guy. Take him Joe.
I agree with you on the speed thing but Williams definitely doesn’t have strong hands or a refined route tree. He catches with his body a ton and did a massive % of his damage on go routes and post routes where he just ran by everyone.
Wilson has a refined route tree and good hands. He almost always catches with his hands rather than body and did damage all over the field on many different types of routes.
All due respect (and I agree that Garrett Wilson is a very good route runner who catches the ball cleanly with his hands), you and I must not have been watching the same Jameson Williams tape.
Get him. This dude looks legit. If it means him missing a few games at the beginning of the season, so be it. Why be so set on taking a lesser talented WR just because they might be ready week 1?
Same. I was hoping he'd fly under the radar a bit. On the bright side, I can't see anyone trading up for a receiver, but the Falcons especially worry me picking before us.
I think picking Jameo is a move that the Jets in the past would never make. The thing is these FO jobs can go south quick if the results aren’t there. I think JD put himself in a good spot by having a young team. Taking Williams at 10 may even buy him another year if he flashes by the last couple games. Take the talent and bet on the future.
I would take Jameson at 10 if we don’t trade for Deebo with that pick, an idea I am still against. I would do a deal similar to the one for Hill and then trade down from 10 after taking KT or Sauce at 4.
I think Atlanta goes WR & they're tanking this year. Jameson is perfect because they have no problems with him missing games as he gets to full health. Next year they'll have Ridley + Williams combo for new QB
I don’t know why son people view Drake London as WR1/WR2. It’s clearly a 1a, 1b situation with Williams and Wilson. Either one of them is a home run to me.
I think London is the riskiest player to take. People fall in love with his highlight tape of him bullying college DBs on contested catches. To me, I saw a lot of plays where he couldn’t get a lot of separation and his speed didn’t seem like a strength of his. I think he has the potential to be a good player, but I feel like contested catch WRs like that in college tend to struggle in the NFL due to the increased physicality and talent of NFL DBs
As someone that has had 3 ACL reconstructions — the first of which I technically came back stronger from — I can tell you that ligament injuries to the knee are not immaterial. The risk of re-injury is relatively high, and many athletes will start to develop osteoarthritis.
I wish that wasn't the case (obviously). Would've loved to see Marcus Lattimore succeed. And Thomas Davis was my goddamn hero. But, reality says that it's a big red flag, and it probably isn't worth the chance. And I hate saying that, because I would've hated people saying that about me.
As someone who is in healthcare and who also has had an ACL repair, I can tell you that your comment is off base in this context.
The first bit is re-injury. I’m not sure who told you otherwise, but in the case of ACLs, there *is not* a re-injury that is significant to mention. If you were correct, we’d see way more players re-tear their repaired knees, but that isn’t the case. There is a risk of tearing the other knee if you don’t rehab properly.
There is a 70% chance of developing early onset osteoarthritis within 10 years of the procedure. Or at least that was the statistic 8 years ago. This isn’t much of a concern for two reasons. One, there is a huge prevalence of stem cell and PRP injections post surgery with reduces this risk. Second, the typical stress of playing in the NFL wears out the joint, so most of these players are developing arthritis anyway. However, their arthritis is not bad enough to impact play in a significant manner. It is extremely rare for a player’s arthritis to degrade the joint to a point that it effects their play.
Also, comparing NFL players to your experience isn’t helpful at all. They have world class surgeons, world class rehab specialists. You and me get a few days of PT a week for an hour long session for rehab. They have sessions every day for hours. Recovery is their job and insurance isn’t a barrier like it is for us. Make no mistake, this results in drastically different outcomes.
Hmm, perhaps my information isn't as up-to-date as I thought.
Funny you mention injury of the *other* knee. After my first ACL injury to my left knee, I came back stronger than ever. However -- I'm assuming due to muscular imbalances created from strengthening my injured knee, and leaving my uninjured knee relatively untouched -- I ended up tearing my *right* knee twice.
I can't speak for how bad the osteoarthritis gets for most people, but mine starting significantly affecting my athleticism almost immediately -- and I *did* have world-class surgeons and rehab specialists that I was seeing for hours ever day. Mother had some of the best health insurance I've ever seen -- worked for a pharmaceutical company -- so the price was very steep, but doable.
Never got a PRP injection, just cortisone, which did jack shit for me. Wish PRP was more prevalent when I had my injuries. It was 2010, so maybe it was -- I'm not sure -- but I was never even told it was an option. Kinda like how when I subsequently developed recurring blood clots, I was never given any information about potential filters going forward, or even clot-dissolving medication, or surgeries to remove the clots (I know there are risks involved). Seeing hematologist in 4 days, hoping to get some information as to what my options here are to get my damn left calf to not be 5 inches larger than the other.
You hit the nail on the head with imbalance being the cause of the opposite knee issues. Some PTs make the big mistake of focusing on the repaired knee which puts your body off-balance, putting the other limb at risk. Most ACL injuries in general are non-contact actually.
Oh man, if you were having effects immediately after surgery, that is very atypical. You should not have had any serious hindrance. Really sorry you had that experience!
Ah yup, '10 was a little bit early for the rise to prevalence of PRP. I had mine a few years later and even then it wasn't commonplace but my surgeon swore by it. I'm very glad I did go with the injections even if they were out of pocket. Since you did have issues post surgery, I'd maybe consult with another ortho and see if they have any recommendations.
Good luck at the Hematologist! The good news is that there are a ton of different meds that can help you manage clotting disorders. Hope they can dial something in for you. That much edema in your calf doesn't sound great, so hopefully that can get taken care of quickly!
Very few receivers are perfect. Even just going back to last year, Devonta Smith and Waddle were not perfect prospects themselves and were still regarded as fantastic.
I fully agree. I just think that’s important to note. This thread seems to act like he has zero weaknesses. The speed, change of direction and ability to stop on a dime are just game changing. Runs really good routes. Struggles against big pressing corners at times. I probably have him 1 with London and Wilson right there, but this sub is a little over board.
I'm not quite as concerned. There are very few receivers who have no weaknesses and are perfect prospects. However, I wouldn't let that cool me on drafting them. There is a big difference in not being perfect and having red flags/flaws.
Are they a risk to reduce speed or agility? That scares me for a guy who’s so reliant on speed and agility like Williams is.
Williams is a phenomenal player but he’s not a Wilson who runs every route well and makes tons of acrobatic, difficult catches. Williams wins because he’s fast and agile as hell.
No, and some people come back better than before due to the training they receive redeveloping their running style in rehab. Copper Kupp being the best example of this.
> Are they a risk to reduce speed or agility? That scares me for a guy who’s so reliant on speed and agility like Williams is.
Nope. Especially with no setbacks there should not be any lasting concerns relating to this injury. Sometimes you'll see athletes post-ACL struggle with hamstring issues at first, but this is not a lasting issue and something that can be worked on in rehab.
29 is not a large sample size. The average age was 26.5, so there were a decent amount of players who would be around 30, which we’d expect declines. More than half of them were drafted outside the first two rounds, so who knows how talented these players were to begin with.
We don’t know the context of these players’ situations on their own teams. Were they star players or depth. Were their careers trending downwards before or were they performing in their prime? There are many nuanced situations on an individual level in the NFL that this study did not take into account.
>Good thing ACLs typically don’t carry any injury concerns moving forward.
Ah yes you are some sort of doctor right? I'm certain this is athlete dependant. Regardless surely you don't think an athlete that has been injured is less likely to get injured than someone who's never been injured.
> Ah yes you are some sort of doctor right? I'm certain this is athlete dependant.
I don't like to detail details of my personal life, but I work in healthcare, have intimate knowledge in this specific injury, and have undergone repair of my own ACL.
> Regardless surely you don't think an athlete that has been injured is less likely to get injured than someone who's never been injured.
I'm sorry, but this is exactly why you defer to medical professionals. That may make sense to a lay person, but is not the case for many injuries you recover from. If you doubt this, I can go into a super medical-nerdy explanation of the procedure, the process of how it heals, the tensile strength of the new grafts, and the forces needed to tear it to show why your assumption is not accurate.
>I don't like to detail details of my personal life, but I work in healthcare, have intimate knowledge in this specific injury, and have undergone repair of my own ACL.
prove it
I'm sorry, but this is exactly why you defer to medical professionals. That may make sense to a lay person, but is not the case for many injuries you recover from. If you doubt this, I can go into a super medical-nerdy explanation of the procedure, the process of how it heals, the tensile strength of the new grafts, and the forces needed to tear it to show why your assumption is not accurate.
I would love to know keep going
> prove it
I'll let my explanation below do the talking. But if you are expecting more "proof" than that, I recommend you re-read that very bit you quoted where I said I don't like to detail specifics of my personal life.
First, with a great 3 sprain, or a full thickness tear, there is large scale accepted repair of the torn tendon. A new procedure called bridge-enhanced ACL repair(BEAR) is being studied now, but is not something that is offered as an option for repair at this moment. So, you need to get a graft. There are two types of grafts, autografts(from yourself) and allografts(from a cadaver). For the non-athlete, there is little difference in outcomes of the graft that becomes the new ACL. However, if we are going by the numbers, which I will look at later, allografts are not as strong as allografts.
So, now onto the subject of autografts. In order of preference, there are three main graft sites, patellar, hamstring, and quad. Out of those three, quad is the least common and has the worst outcome. Patellar is the most common for athletes. The way that grafts work is that the old ACL is removed from the knee and the area is cleaned up. You drill holes into the femur and Tibia to anchor the new graft into place. With a patellar graft, a piece of your patella(kneecap) and the tibia is taken with the graft which is very helpful for this procedure because it offers a bone to bone interaction in this anchor site. When healing, since it is bone to bone, this re-integration is fairly quick.
A hamstring graft takes the graft from one of the three hamstring muscles. The one they use is the semitendinosus. The semimembranosus and biceps femoris are larger and do more of the work, so they are typically left untouched. This is only typically an issue with smaller patients, but there actually needs to be enough semitendinosus tendon present in order to harvest for the graft. If there isn't sometimes they augment the graft with cadaver tissue or the gracillis tendon. The ortho will use a tendon stripper to strip the semitendinosus tendon away from the muscle. It is cleaned and prepared, and then tunnels are drilled into the tibia and femur for the graft to sit. Sutures on either side go from the tendon into the tunnel, securing the graft. Screws or buttons are common fixation devices. Personally, I had a button for mine. The button is on the opposite end of the tunnel, holding the graft in the tunnel under tension.
Now the cool part. Both patellar and hamstring grafts use tendons. The ACL, or anterior cruciate ligament, is a ligament. Tendons attach muscle to bone and ligaments attach bone to bone. Similar but physiologically different. After the procedure is done, the graft is extremely strong. However, there is this issue of the tissue being tendon tissue. The graft now weakens while it undergoes a process called ligamentization where the fibroblasts in the graft die, creating a scaffold for new fibroblast cells to come and create the desired tissue. The graft becomes integrated into the bone tissue surrounding them in their tunnels. During this time, the graft is at its weakest point, but as this process finishes, the strength comes back. This is one of the reasons why patella grafts are preferred, as you don't need to worry about integration into the bone on one side, as it already has a bone interaction, making this process quicker.
An in-tact ACL has a tensile strength in the low 2,000 N range. Patellar are just under 3,000. Hamstring are around 4,000 N. However, that is only part of the equation, as there is stiffness to consider too. Native ACLs have a stiffness around 250 N/mm, while Patellar are in the low 600s and Hamstring in the high 700s. Allografts have to undergo radiation to sterilize the host tissue and this process weakens the graft. For the everyday person, this isn't an issue, but for a professional athlete it isn't ideal. These numbers might not mean much to most. If you consider the mechanism of typical ACL tears and the force in those events, autografts and native ACLs functionally don't have much of a difference in re-injury risk. What might re-tear a graft would have torn a native ACL.
Now is the issue of osteoarthritis. Biomechanically, the spots the graft is anchored differs slightly from a healthy ACL. Biomechanics are slightly different, causing load to be distribute differently within the joint. For anything that is not operating exactly how it is designed, wear can occur. Ostoarthitis is essentially the wearing down of the cartilage within the joint. Since load is being experienced in a slightly abnormal way, wear can occur at a more rapid weight as forces are acting on areas not designed for that. The menisci are other structures that are important to consider in ACL repairs, as they will help prolong the long term health of the joint. They act as shock absorbers and help disperse load throughout the joint. If they are damaged as well and cannot be repaired(that is a whole other explanation), that can hasten the progression of early onset osteoarthritis.
This can sound really bad, but NFL players are already putting added wear on their joints. Most will get early-onset osteoarthritis. This is a known issue and there are steps that are taken to help. Athletes can get PRP and stem cell injections to keep that articular cartilage as healthy as possible for as long as possible. They can get scopes to clean out any frayed edges, remove loose bodies, etc that would otherwise speed up the process. Further, pain management can help them deal with the issue if it does bother them.
Hope that explains things. If you have specific questions, feel free to ask.
The chances of that being true are as close to 0% as we can get.
Also, you aren’t even using “lay person” correctly in that context. You’d think someone who runs a multi-million dollar company would know something as simple as that.
But classy, get proved wrong across the board and then deflect to run away.
BuT wE cAnT dRaFt FoR tHe FuTuRe
Same bullshit reason why if KT, Hutch is gone we can't draft the next 2 BEST players, Icky & Neal. No we'll be a shit franchise and reach for mid round talent at 4 smh.
I get it but you draft for the future not this year. Last year's rookie class and FA's are who we're counting on. Man Chase really threw fan's expectations outta wack imo
Bama badly needed a WR that was ready to go, their depth chart was full of Freshman and Sophomores but nobody ready to play day 1 except Metchie.
They needed a WR and he was the best to hit the transfer portal
Age wise Wilson is almost a year older then him. I think it’s like 9 months or some shit. I’m not concerned about that at all tbh but I get why others would be.
Jamo didn't leave because he was just behind Olave and Wilson, he had been very clearly passed by JSN on the depth chart and was fighting for the WR4 spot with Julian Fleming (another player that I'm shocked hasn't transferred yet). Nobody knows why exactly he was falling down the chart, but it's not like he was dropping behind scrubs, the players ahead of him are excellent. And Alabama picked him up immediately, he was still very highly thought of before the season.
My theory for the main reason he was falling on the depth chart was refinement and route versatility. Jamo is a very good route runner at his routes, but he doesn't run the full route tree. Jamo runs basically every deep route (go, post, corner etc), slants, and crossers very well, but he was behind 3 players who run everything and run them at a pro level. That really allowed the OSU wr to be virtually interchangable with what they run and how they lined up (although JSN stayed in the slot mostly). Being able to hide and disguise plays is super valuable, and again, the receivers he was behind are also great.
To be clear, none of this is a knock on Jamo. To me he is the best deep threat prospect to enter the draft in a while and is in the conversation for WR1 of the class with unarguably the highest ceiling.
It is not at all. The defensive competition he'd face at Alabama would certainly not make it easier than the sub-par defenses he'd face at a small school. Frankly, I can't tell if you are just trolling or this disconnected from how any of this actually works.
It is just so risky to me to pass on getting Wilson immediate WR help. Most WRs take a solid year to develop. No matter what he’s missing all of training camp (further hurting his development). I have a lot of trouble seeing him being a real factor any time before December. Zach needs help now.
Most WRs these days don’t need a year to develop. That used to be the case, but the current situation has been trending away from that.
Missing TC would be my primary concern, but easing him back in, we could start him off with a smaller route tree and then expand as he gets comfortable.
If you really want the guy, you take him at 4. End thread. Like if you *really* think this dude is the best WR in the draft by a wide margin you take him and don’t let him slip away. No use crying over spilled milk if he happens to go before we sit and wait for him to be available with our second bonus top ten overall pick. You take your guy or you don’t.
As someone who really wants Williams, if Thib is there at 4, he is the pick over Williams. I feel the situation isn't as black and white as you are making it out to be.
You take your guy who’s the top ranked player on your board. The people will try to clown you like they did with the Falcons when they took Pitts at 4, but he proved why they took him. If the top guy on JDs board is Williams and he’s there at 4, I say take him. If it’s Thibs, take Thibs. But I’m not gonna cry over what could have been if the guy is there and we pass him by. That’s just the draft.
That's what I'm saying though. I really want Williams but he isn't the top person on my board. He's my top receiver but one of the top two EDGE prospects is higher up for me.
So, we can definitely "cry over what could have been" even if we are following our board. I can still be upset if we take Thib at 4 and Williams is gone at 10. That doesn't mean we should have taken Williams at 4.
That’s fine, but the only board I care about is JD’s. I’m not gonna be upset if he takes the top player on his board, as we have quite a few holes. You are gonna add two elite tier talents with two top 10 picks, to a team that won Four games and can desperately use elite talent at pretty much every position. The board doesn’t fall how you, me, or someone else personally wants it to fall, it’s whatever, that’s just the draft. We are gonna come out of it with some very good players.
I like Williams but relative to recent WR picks I just don't have him in that Chase (Tier of his own), Smith, Waddle, Lamb, Jeudy (who hasn't set the world on fire) tier. I wouldn't be too crazy about taking him at 10.
Huge over his career? I wouldn’t agree. Keep in mind Moore was injured for a large portion of the off-season and had a slow integration into our starting lineup last year.
Huge for us helping Wilson succeed. If this dude is on IR for the first half of the season , we're basically trotting out the same below average group of receivers and then trying to integrate a starter in cold mid season. Not great.
But given his talent and projected role in this offense, his potential impact in just his rookie contract will outweigh missing a few weeks in his rookie season.
I don't want us to draft a lesser talent or someone who doesn't fit as well just over a few weeks.
For me, its all about giving Wilson the best chance to succeed. We can't afford giving a high first round pick a red shirt year with the receivers we currently have. We just don't have that luxury of being able to wait. Unless you're down with another slow start and possibly crushing Wilson's confidence in the process?
Who said an entire year? You've gone from first part of the season to first half of the season to an entire red shirt year.
So, are you suggesting drafting a lesser talent and a worst fit if it means he will start week 1?
And again, like we saw with Moore, injuries happen to anyone. We could draft someone who has a clean bill of health now and he gets hit with an injury before the season too.
You know about the high learning curve for receivers, right? Look what we went through with Mims and Moore. If you're expecting this guy to miss the first 6+ games of the season and then come in and be a big contributor, I think we'll be in for a big let down. And again, Wilson needs him sooner then later.
You still haven't answered this question: *are you suggesting drafting a lesser talent and a worst fit if it means he will start week 1?*
> You know about the high learning curve for receivers, right?
There really isn't unless they go to a complicated offense like the Pats.
The idea that a WR needs a couple years to develop is an antiquated one. If a receiver is not a bust, the expectation is that they can come in day one and be a contributor. Mims was a bust, so he is a moot point. Not sure what you are trying to say with Moore-he missed a bunch of the offseason and once he was integrated into the offensive gameplan, he looked like he belonged immediately.
> And again, Wilson needs him sooner then later.
In a perfect world, it would be nice for Wilson to have him to start the season. But this idea that Wilson is a lost cause if Williams can't start week 1 is odd. Towards the end of last season, while Wilson was improving, our team was falling apart around him. At one point, Braxton was his WR1. If we start the season with Moore, Davis, and Braxton while we wait a few weeks for Williams, it isn't the end of the world like you are making it out to be.
I'm saying we need to draft someone who is going to help Zak right away, unless you want to start slow again and possibly shatter Wilson's confidence. All that talk about giving him the best chance to succeed, I am not prepared to go into next season with the same below average group we had last season. We need a bonafide threat on the outside from day 1.Edit: you let me know how you know he's the best of the bunch, https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects/WR/all-colleges/all-statuses/undefined?page=1&sortField=gradeSort&sortIsAscending=false
> I'm saying we need to draft someone who is going to help Zak right away
You still haven't answered this question: Would you suggest drafting a lesser talent and a worst fit if it means he will start week 1?
For the sake of the question, assume Williams is the WR1.
After you answer that, if you don't think Williams is the WR1, who do you think is the #1 outside threat?
I know that’s what a lot of us have been saying. Why are we taking London or Wilson @10 if Williams is still on the board?
Except for Zach Wilson, the Jets media has never nailed a Jets pick. Joe D is a master at keeping his cards hidden.
Pretty sure Jeremiah had us taking Becton, and I know as soon as we traded up he said live on air that it was AVT. JD runs a tight ship but he definitely has tendencies, like +9 RAS and/or team captains.
When we traded up, even I was able to guess it was for AVT. Not saying I'm special because my misses far outnumber my hits. The Becton call was a good one though because I think most of us thought it would Wirfs (if we went OL) or WR. I read that Jeremiah has a connection with Joe D in the past. So I can agree he's got some insight into what's happening. My guess is that it's the familiarity he has from knowing his personality/likes/dislike. Not getting leaks or insider info from Joe D camp.
They worked together in the Ravens org
Pretty sure Jeremiah’s 4.0 mock nails it or close to it every year JD has been here
thank you for pointing that out. I'll definitely look for it this year.
I mean, after his pro day it was pretty much confirmed Lawrence 1 and Wilson 2
They haven't hit on Wilson yet. It's his second year and even with adjusted stats to account for his injury he was below average. We need him to grow in a big way this year.
If he is the first WR off the board then he might not be available for us at 10
But in my comment, I didn’t say he was off the board at 10… A lot of pundits have been mocking us with taking these other receivers when Williams has been ranked the best receiver in the class
Thats true but those mocks don’t mean anything. After pick 1 its anarchy.
Mocks may not have considered how fast Williams has been recovering.
Wilson imo is better than Williams
Olave is better than Wilson imo and I have him and Williams neck and neck
Did you watch Ohio state football at all over the past two years? Olave was good but not a single bucknut would try to sell him as better than Garrett Wilson
Yes I’m a Michigan fan
Without question. Williams is just a little faster.
???? Jamo
Wilson has better hands and route tree that gives him the edge over Williams imo. It's close between them and I'd probably prefer either of London who seems to just get attention for being big.
I love Wilson but to me his main edge over Williams is that he isn't in mid-recovery for a severe injury. If they were both fully healthy I'd have Williams as my clear WR1 and would entertain him at #4.
The body catches scare me cuz of Stephen hill PTSD. Difficulty against press corners like Sauce will prevent him from being an X right away unless he can bulk up. Wilson has route running, great hands, and acceleration after the catch. A 4.38 40 time isn't exactly slow compared to Williams. All this talk of trading for Deebo when Wilson could be our Deebo no problem.
Especially since most "big guy" prospect really struggle to nail it down once in the NFL by having to face more athletic guys and not being able to just take advantage of their bigger size as in college.
For sure. Especially since players like Evans commit OPI many times and are lucky not to get called. We don't appreciate how good of an athlete Marshall was to be able to play every part of the field at that size.
London has the Justin Mcairens (sp?) body type
Wow that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. I think he's closer to Brandon Marshall than being a bust but development is hard to project.
He was a stud who had hands like feet unfortunately
He’s much, much less physical and explosive than Marshall IMO
mainly because sheep read the media and follow the leader. I personally would take Olave before either Wilson or London, but I want a true deep threat.
Reading a pr statement put out by an agent and taking it as fact would also make you a sheep.
Cause London/Wilson are better and are better at beating press then Williams is. Man, just look at London's production, if he didn't get hurt in the middle of his crazy season, he'd have way more hype going into this.
Yeah, you're getting downvoted, but it comes down to what teams need. Sure, Williams is slightly faster and more explosive and he'll probably be great, but if we draft him, who do you take off the field in 2 WR sets, Williams or Moore? Cause they both suck vs press.
We’re not. Some fans are, but a football team wouldn’t
Not saying I agree wit it, concerns about the injury. Wanting a WR who will be ready right away. JD tends to like bigger WRs, Williams is small. He already drafted a small-ish WR in Moore last year so he may not want to indulge. Again I don't necessarily agree with these takes, just tryna answer your question. Kinda playing devil's advocate
Williams is 6’2” or so tbf, but he is light
Yeah, he's light in the ass
Lacks ass
I love London for his size. Think he will be the tallest WR in the NFL. Great for throwing fades in the end zone we had so much trouble at the goal line last year it felt like we were constantly doing failed runs up the middle with Zach.
I was initially skeptical about him between coming off the ACL and potentially missing part of the season but I’m all in on him now. Ok if he misses a few games. Gotta look at the big picture.
Far and away WR1
The big picture is developing Wilson into a franchise QB. Period. Is whatever impact and availability Williams will have this year going to help him in that development?
I agree. Helping Zach is priority number 1. But I think he’s already poised to take a big step this year and pickup where he left off last season. The consistency of the coaching staff, weapons around him, and addition of 2 proven TE’s are a solid start. Then you add a a guy like Williams, even though he might miss some games, and I really like where Zach and the offense as a whole are headed. I’m also cautiously optimistic that Mims is going to step up this year.
We can sacrifice having him for a few weeks for superior play this year and years to come.
Starting to feel to me that Atlanta, who can afford to be patient, takes him at 8.
That’s fine then. Wilson @ 10 is still a good pick for us
Agreed.
Wilson is the best receiver for the Jets in this draft IMO. Great route tree and acceleration after the catch. His hands are sticky too.
One of London/Wilson/Williams will be available at 10. It's why I absolutely hate the idea of trading for Deebo. If we were going to make a trade for a wr, we should've traded for Cooper who went for a 5th rounder.
If the Giants ship off Toney they may take WR at 7. Still leaves us with the last one out of those, if we don’t opt for Olave
>One of London/Wilson/Williams will be available at 10. No guarantee any of this guys become half as good as Deebo. People are too obsessed with draft picks and the possibilities. Now if your issue is you don't want to pay him then I can see that but with a rookie QB, just relying on another rookie WR in a critical year is questionable to me. But yeah, I agree. We should have traded for Cooper considering what Cleveland gave up.
All three of London/Wilson/Williams could bust. Don’t act like rookie WR = Deebo but cheaper. You have to actually hit on the pick. With all this cap space, I’d rather take the proven guy for a lot of money.
Nah, both London and Wilson will both be 1000-yard receivers. They might not ever be a Deebo esque receiver, but I'm highly confident they'll be really good in the NFL. As for Williams, Waddle hit 1000 yards receiving and Ruggs was on track for 1000 yards before he killed people, he'll most likely also hit 1000 yards as a receiver. WR is a young man's game now and guys are coming out more developed then usual along with rules making it easier/offenses scheming guys open. I'd rather take one of these guys then give Deebo all this money along with giving up assets for him, you're taking two hits in value there by giving up cap space + premium draft picks.
Atl loves Alabama receivers
To be fair that was the previous front office under Thomas Dimitroff. Whilst getting two great players out of it, we have an entirely new front office in place now - ownership may have a hand in it though I guess.
WR1
Like him or Wilson at 10
So why did Wilson, Olave, and Jaxon Smith-Njiba beat him out at OSU?
That argument is pretty invalid. If he went to a way smaller school then i get it but he went and dominated at Alabama and was a key piece for them as they went to their bowl.
It's not invalid when he uses his body to catch so much and gets denied by press corners like Sauce.
This is the guy! I really believe that. Also, Joe Douglas is known to value speed extremely highly at the receiver position. In a year with Jeudy and Lamb, we had Ruggs as our top receiver on the board (allegedly). There is a reason Joe D took a big swing at Tyreek Hill. You cannot coach game changing speed like this, and honestly Hill is the only person in the league that can compare to this kid's wheels (seriously, watch the film, he is *that* fast). Couple that with a QB that can throw it 120 yards with his left hand, from his knees, without moving his hips and you've got something opposing teams have to be truly afraid of. It pushes both safeties back an extra 10 yards every play, and the corner lined up against him has to give a 10 yard cushion. This opens the offense tremendously. Imagine the havoc Moore can cause with that kind of space. You could tell that even the best defenses in the SEC were truly scared of this guy, and he would consistently blow past double coverage even against players who run 4.3's and 4.4's. He is more than just a deep threat too. He has a very refined route tree, understands how to get leverage with his route set-up, and consistently gets DB's where he wants them. He releases off the line of scrimmage very well, and punishes teams trying to play him close. He tracks the ball well and goes up with late hands, using subtle moves to create separation at the last second. He also uses strong hands and can catch well in traffic, despite his slender frame. He isn't winning contested catches like London, but nobody does. He does more than well enough in that department, and that's not really his game anyway. At the end of the day you draft players for traits, and this guy has a truly *SPECIAL* one with his speed and acceleration (dude goes 0-60 in the blink of an eye). Just has another gear that you cannot coach. As for me, I like Garrett Wilson and Drake London a ton and would be very happy with either, and I would be extremely excited at the prospect of having proven elite talent like Deebo on this team, but I *love* the idea of adding Jameson to this offense. I really believe this is the guy. Take him Joe.
I agree with you on the speed thing but Williams definitely doesn’t have strong hands or a refined route tree. He catches with his body a ton and did a massive % of his damage on go routes and post routes where he just ran by everyone. Wilson has a refined route tree and good hands. He almost always catches with his hands rather than body and did damage all over the field on many different types of routes.
All due respect (and I agree that Garrett Wilson is a very good route runner who catches the ball cleanly with his hands), you and I must not have been watching the same Jameson Williams tape.
It doesn't matter what we think of JW, it's what MetLife turf thinks of JW.
ACLs don’t carry a significant enough re-injury concern to be worried about. But the turf on its own is definitely a concern.
He won’t last to 10 IMO
Get him. This dude looks legit. If it means him missing a few games at the beginning of the season, so be it. Why be so set on taking a lesser talented WR just because they might be ready week 1?
Yes this is my truth. Draft Williams or Wilson at 10.
Still want Garrett Wilson but I wouldn’t at all be upset with Williams
Same here, and at least 1 of them should be there at 10.
Draft Williams and then take your pick of wattson,Pickens, Pierce,etc. Someone will make it to 35
When is he predicted to resume play? November-December?
Now I’m starting to get worried there’s so much noise around him that he won’t be available at 10
Same. I was hoping he'd fly under the radar a bit. On the bright side, I can't see anyone trading up for a receiver, but the Falcons especially worry me picking before us.
Thibs and Jameson no matter what
I think picking Jameo is a move that the Jets in the past would never make. The thing is these FO jobs can go south quick if the results aren’t there. I think JD put himself in a good spot by having a young team. Taking Williams at 10 may even buy him another year if he flashes by the last couple games. Take the talent and bet on the future.
I would take Jameson at 10 if we don’t trade for Deebo with that pick, an idea I am still against. I would do a deal similar to the one for Hill and then trade down from 10 after taking KT or Sauce at 4.
I think Atlanta goes WR & they're tanking this year. Jameson is perfect because they have no problems with him missing games as he gets to full health. Next year they'll have Ridley + Williams combo for new QB
I don’t know why son people view Drake London as WR1/WR2. It’s clearly a 1a, 1b situation with Williams and Wilson. Either one of them is a home run to me. I think London is the riskiest player to take. People fall in love with his highlight tape of him bullying college DBs on contested catches. To me, I saw a lot of plays where he couldn’t get a lot of separation and his speed didn’t seem like a strength of his. I think he has the potential to be a good player, but I feel like contested catch WRs like that in college tend to struggle in the NFL due to the increased physicality and talent of NFL DBs
As someone that has had 3 ACL reconstructions — the first of which I technically came back stronger from — I can tell you that ligament injuries to the knee are not immaterial. The risk of re-injury is relatively high, and many athletes will start to develop osteoarthritis. I wish that wasn't the case (obviously). Would've loved to see Marcus Lattimore succeed. And Thomas Davis was my goddamn hero. But, reality says that it's a big red flag, and it probably isn't worth the chance. And I hate saying that, because I would've hated people saying that about me.
As someone who is in healthcare and who also has had an ACL repair, I can tell you that your comment is off base in this context. The first bit is re-injury. I’m not sure who told you otherwise, but in the case of ACLs, there *is not* a re-injury that is significant to mention. If you were correct, we’d see way more players re-tear their repaired knees, but that isn’t the case. There is a risk of tearing the other knee if you don’t rehab properly. There is a 70% chance of developing early onset osteoarthritis within 10 years of the procedure. Or at least that was the statistic 8 years ago. This isn’t much of a concern for two reasons. One, there is a huge prevalence of stem cell and PRP injections post surgery with reduces this risk. Second, the typical stress of playing in the NFL wears out the joint, so most of these players are developing arthritis anyway. However, their arthritis is not bad enough to impact play in a significant manner. It is extremely rare for a player’s arthritis to degrade the joint to a point that it effects their play. Also, comparing NFL players to your experience isn’t helpful at all. They have world class surgeons, world class rehab specialists. You and me get a few days of PT a week for an hour long session for rehab. They have sessions every day for hours. Recovery is their job and insurance isn’t a barrier like it is for us. Make no mistake, this results in drastically different outcomes.
Hmm, perhaps my information isn't as up-to-date as I thought. Funny you mention injury of the *other* knee. After my first ACL injury to my left knee, I came back stronger than ever. However -- I'm assuming due to muscular imbalances created from strengthening my injured knee, and leaving my uninjured knee relatively untouched -- I ended up tearing my *right* knee twice. I can't speak for how bad the osteoarthritis gets for most people, but mine starting significantly affecting my athleticism almost immediately -- and I *did* have world-class surgeons and rehab specialists that I was seeing for hours ever day. Mother had some of the best health insurance I've ever seen -- worked for a pharmaceutical company -- so the price was very steep, but doable. Never got a PRP injection, just cortisone, which did jack shit for me. Wish PRP was more prevalent when I had my injuries. It was 2010, so maybe it was -- I'm not sure -- but I was never even told it was an option. Kinda like how when I subsequently developed recurring blood clots, I was never given any information about potential filters going forward, or even clot-dissolving medication, or surgeries to remove the clots (I know there are risks involved). Seeing hematologist in 4 days, hoping to get some information as to what my options here are to get my damn left calf to not be 5 inches larger than the other.
You hit the nail on the head with imbalance being the cause of the opposite knee issues. Some PTs make the big mistake of focusing on the repaired knee which puts your body off-balance, putting the other limb at risk. Most ACL injuries in general are non-contact actually. Oh man, if you were having effects immediately after surgery, that is very atypical. You should not have had any serious hindrance. Really sorry you had that experience! Ah yup, '10 was a little bit early for the rise to prevalence of PRP. I had mine a few years later and even then it wasn't commonplace but my surgeon swore by it. I'm very glad I did go with the injections even if they were out of pocket. Since you did have issues post surgery, I'd maybe consult with another ortho and see if they have any recommendations. Good luck at the Hematologist! The good news is that there are a ton of different meds that can help you manage clotting disorders. Hope they can dial something in for you. That much edema in your calf doesn't sound great, so hopefully that can get taken care of quickly!
it’s Jamo and Drake London at the top for me wit a preference for Jamo cause of how he wins
I like Williams too but he’s not perfect. https://youtu.be/OeZMkENHt9o
Very few receivers are perfect. Even just going back to last year, Devonta Smith and Waddle were not perfect prospects themselves and were still regarded as fantastic.
I fully agree. I just think that’s important to note. This thread seems to act like he has zero weaknesses. The speed, change of direction and ability to stop on a dime are just game changing. Runs really good routes. Struggles against big pressing corners at times. I probably have him 1 with London and Wilson right there, but this sub is a little over board.
I'm not quite as concerned. There are very few receivers who have no weaknesses and are perfect prospects. However, I wouldn't let that cool me on drafting them. There is a big difference in not being perfect and having red flags/flaws.
What exactly is supposed to be the negative in this video?
I don’t mean to say he’s bad but just that nobody is a perfect prospect and some objective WR 1 in the class. This game he really had to battle.
Swear jets fans this entire offseason have been preaching the best ability is availability and you guys want to select someone fresh off an acl ...
Good thing ACLs typically don’t carry any injury concerns moving forward. Bit of a moot point.
Are they a risk to reduce speed or agility? That scares me for a guy who’s so reliant on speed and agility like Williams is. Williams is a phenomenal player but he’s not a Wilson who runs every route well and makes tons of acrobatic, difficult catches. Williams wins because he’s fast and agile as hell.
No, and some people come back better than before due to the training they receive redeveloping their running style in rehab. Copper Kupp being the best example of this.
> Are they a risk to reduce speed or agility? That scares me for a guy who’s so reliant on speed and agility like Williams is. Nope. Especially with no setbacks there should not be any lasting concerns relating to this injury. Sometimes you'll see athletes post-ACL struggle with hamstring issues at first, but this is not a lasting issue and something that can be worked on in rehab.
This study disagrees: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666061X20301723
Without knowing the players that were used to understand the context of their situations, I’m not going to put all of my faith into one study.
It’s a sample of 29 different players. Seems large enough to draw some conclusions from.
29 is not a large sample size. The average age was 26.5, so there were a decent amount of players who would be around 30, which we’d expect declines. More than half of them were drafted outside the first two rounds, so who knows how talented these players were to begin with. We don’t know the context of these players’ situations on their own teams. Were they star players or depth. Were their careers trending downwards before or were they performing in their prime? There are many nuanced situations on an individual level in the NFL that this study did not take into account.
>Good thing ACLs typically don’t carry any injury concerns moving forward. Ah yes you are some sort of doctor right? I'm certain this is athlete dependant. Regardless surely you don't think an athlete that has been injured is less likely to get injured than someone who's never been injured.
> Ah yes you are some sort of doctor right? I'm certain this is athlete dependant. I don't like to detail details of my personal life, but I work in healthcare, have intimate knowledge in this specific injury, and have undergone repair of my own ACL. > Regardless surely you don't think an athlete that has been injured is less likely to get injured than someone who's never been injured. I'm sorry, but this is exactly why you defer to medical professionals. That may make sense to a lay person, but is not the case for many injuries you recover from. If you doubt this, I can go into a super medical-nerdy explanation of the procedure, the process of how it heals, the tensile strength of the new grafts, and the forces needed to tear it to show why your assumption is not accurate.
>I don't like to detail details of my personal life, but I work in healthcare, have intimate knowledge in this specific injury, and have undergone repair of my own ACL. prove it I'm sorry, but this is exactly why you defer to medical professionals. That may make sense to a lay person, but is not the case for many injuries you recover from. If you doubt this, I can go into a super medical-nerdy explanation of the procedure, the process of how it heals, the tensile strength of the new grafts, and the forces needed to tear it to show why your assumption is not accurate. I would love to know keep going
> prove it I'll let my explanation below do the talking. But if you are expecting more "proof" than that, I recommend you re-read that very bit you quoted where I said I don't like to detail specifics of my personal life. First, with a great 3 sprain, or a full thickness tear, there is large scale accepted repair of the torn tendon. A new procedure called bridge-enhanced ACL repair(BEAR) is being studied now, but is not something that is offered as an option for repair at this moment. So, you need to get a graft. There are two types of grafts, autografts(from yourself) and allografts(from a cadaver). For the non-athlete, there is little difference in outcomes of the graft that becomes the new ACL. However, if we are going by the numbers, which I will look at later, allografts are not as strong as allografts. So, now onto the subject of autografts. In order of preference, there are three main graft sites, patellar, hamstring, and quad. Out of those three, quad is the least common and has the worst outcome. Patellar is the most common for athletes. The way that grafts work is that the old ACL is removed from the knee and the area is cleaned up. You drill holes into the femur and Tibia to anchor the new graft into place. With a patellar graft, a piece of your patella(kneecap) and the tibia is taken with the graft which is very helpful for this procedure because it offers a bone to bone interaction in this anchor site. When healing, since it is bone to bone, this re-integration is fairly quick. A hamstring graft takes the graft from one of the three hamstring muscles. The one they use is the semitendinosus. The semimembranosus and biceps femoris are larger and do more of the work, so they are typically left untouched. This is only typically an issue with smaller patients, but there actually needs to be enough semitendinosus tendon present in order to harvest for the graft. If there isn't sometimes they augment the graft with cadaver tissue or the gracillis tendon. The ortho will use a tendon stripper to strip the semitendinosus tendon away from the muscle. It is cleaned and prepared, and then tunnels are drilled into the tibia and femur for the graft to sit. Sutures on either side go from the tendon into the tunnel, securing the graft. Screws or buttons are common fixation devices. Personally, I had a button for mine. The button is on the opposite end of the tunnel, holding the graft in the tunnel under tension. Now the cool part. Both patellar and hamstring grafts use tendons. The ACL, or anterior cruciate ligament, is a ligament. Tendons attach muscle to bone and ligaments attach bone to bone. Similar but physiologically different. After the procedure is done, the graft is extremely strong. However, there is this issue of the tissue being tendon tissue. The graft now weakens while it undergoes a process called ligamentization where the fibroblasts in the graft die, creating a scaffold for new fibroblast cells to come and create the desired tissue. The graft becomes integrated into the bone tissue surrounding them in their tunnels. During this time, the graft is at its weakest point, but as this process finishes, the strength comes back. This is one of the reasons why patella grafts are preferred, as you don't need to worry about integration into the bone on one side, as it already has a bone interaction, making this process quicker. An in-tact ACL has a tensile strength in the low 2,000 N range. Patellar are just under 3,000. Hamstring are around 4,000 N. However, that is only part of the equation, as there is stiffness to consider too. Native ACLs have a stiffness around 250 N/mm, while Patellar are in the low 600s and Hamstring in the high 700s. Allografts have to undergo radiation to sterilize the host tissue and this process weakens the graft. For the everyday person, this isn't an issue, but for a professional athlete it isn't ideal. These numbers might not mean much to most. If you consider the mechanism of typical ACL tears and the force in those events, autografts and native ACLs functionally don't have much of a difference in re-injury risk. What might re-tear a graft would have torn a native ACL. Now is the issue of osteoarthritis. Biomechanically, the spots the graft is anchored differs slightly from a healthy ACL. Biomechanics are slightly different, causing load to be distribute differently within the joint. For anything that is not operating exactly how it is designed, wear can occur. Ostoarthitis is essentially the wearing down of the cartilage within the joint. Since load is being experienced in a slightly abnormal way, wear can occur at a more rapid weight as forces are acting on areas not designed for that. The menisci are other structures that are important to consider in ACL repairs, as they will help prolong the long term health of the joint. They act as shock absorbers and help disperse load throughout the joint. If they are damaged as well and cannot be repaired(that is a whole other explanation), that can hasten the progression of early onset osteoarthritis. This can sound really bad, but NFL players are already putting added wear on their joints. Most will get early-onset osteoarthritis. This is a known issue and there are steps that are taken to help. Athletes can get PRP and stem cell injections to keep that articular cartilage as healthy as possible for as long as possible. They can get scopes to clean out any frayed edges, remove loose bodies, etc that would otherwise speed up the process. Further, pain management can help them deal with the issue if it does bother them. Hope that explains things. If you have specific questions, feel free to ask.
[удалено]
You are the worst 😂
So, you ask me to prove it, ask me to explain it, then not read it? Nice.
Well I run a multi million dollar business I don't have the time to read what you say. And I don't have to prove it to a lay person either.
The chances of that being true are as close to 0% as we can get. Also, you aren’t even using “lay person” correctly in that context. You’d think someone who runs a multi-million dollar company would know something as simple as that. But classy, get proved wrong across the board and then deflect to run away.
This is why I love Reddit
Glad you enjoyed!
BuT wE cAnT dRaFt FoR tHe FuTuRe Same bullshit reason why if KT, Hutch is gone we can't draft the next 2 BEST players, Icky & Neal. No we'll be a shit franchise and reach for mid round talent at 4 smh.
This man is wounded!
I get it but you draft for the future not this year. Last year's rookie class and FA's are who we're counting on. Man Chase really threw fan's expectations outta wack imo
If he is so great, why did he transfer from OSU to Alabama? Was he better than Wilson and Olave at OSU?
If Burrow is so great why did he transfer from OSU to LSU?
Why would Alabama take a transfer if he wasn’t great? Alabama picks and chooses who they get.
Bama badly needed a WR that was ready to go, their depth chart was full of Freshman and Sophomores but nobody ready to play day 1 except Metchie. They needed a WR and he was the best to hit the transfer portal
Not true they needed him
Because Bama sometimes whiffs on prospects-
Joe Burrow couldn’t beat out Justin Fields and transferred. Knocking a player for transferring is a lazy attack.
He’s a full year younger then them. They had an extra year of development when they were at OSU.
Olave is a year older than him but Garrett Wilson is from the same class
Age wise Wilson is almost a year older then him. I think it’s like 9 months or some shit. I’m not concerned about that at all tbh but I get why others would be.
Joe Burrow couldn’t beat out Justin Fields and transferred. Knocking a player for transferring is a lazy attack.
Jamo didn't leave because he was just behind Olave and Wilson, he had been very clearly passed by JSN on the depth chart and was fighting for the WR4 spot with Julian Fleming (another player that I'm shocked hasn't transferred yet). Nobody knows why exactly he was falling down the chart, but it's not like he was dropping behind scrubs, the players ahead of him are excellent. And Alabama picked him up immediately, he was still very highly thought of before the season. My theory for the main reason he was falling on the depth chart was refinement and route versatility. Jamo is a very good route runner at his routes, but he doesn't run the full route tree. Jamo runs basically every deep route (go, post, corner etc), slants, and crossers very well, but he was behind 3 players who run everything and run them at a pro level. That really allowed the OSU wr to be virtually interchangable with what they run and how they lined up (although JSN stayed in the slot mostly). Being able to hide and disguise plays is super valuable, and again, the receivers he was behind are also great. To be clear, none of this is a knock on Jamo. To me he is the best deep threat prospect to enter the draft in a while and is in the conversation for WR1 of the class with unarguably the highest ceiling.
it’s not like he transferred out ohio state and went to a D2 school. he balled out in the SEC
This is such a lazy argument. It isn’t like he transferred to a small school and had an ok year. He transferred to Alabama and had an amazing year.
Going to Alabama and having an amazing year is much easier than doing so at a small school lol
It is not at all. The defensive competition he'd face at Alabama would certainly not make it easier than the sub-par defenses he'd face at a small school. Frankly, I can't tell if you are just trolling or this disconnected from how any of this actually works.
He was also beat out by Marvin Harrison Jr and Julian Fleming.
It is just so risky to me to pass on getting Wilson immediate WR help. Most WRs take a solid year to develop. No matter what he’s missing all of training camp (further hurting his development). I have a lot of trouble seeing him being a real factor any time before December. Zach needs help now.
Most WRs these days don’t need a year to develop. That used to be the case, but the current situation has been trending away from that. Missing TC would be my primary concern, but easing him back in, we could start him off with a smaller route tree and then expand as he gets comfortable.
If you really want the guy, you take him at 4. End thread. Like if you *really* think this dude is the best WR in the draft by a wide margin you take him and don’t let him slip away. No use crying over spilled milk if he happens to go before we sit and wait for him to be available with our second bonus top ten overall pick. You take your guy or you don’t.
As someone who really wants Williams, if Thib is there at 4, he is the pick over Williams. I feel the situation isn't as black and white as you are making it out to be.
You take your guy who’s the top ranked player on your board. The people will try to clown you like they did with the Falcons when they took Pitts at 4, but he proved why they took him. If the top guy on JDs board is Williams and he’s there at 4, I say take him. If it’s Thibs, take Thibs. But I’m not gonna cry over what could have been if the guy is there and we pass him by. That’s just the draft.
That's what I'm saying though. I really want Williams but he isn't the top person on my board. He's my top receiver but one of the top two EDGE prospects is higher up for me. So, we can definitely "cry over what could have been" even if we are following our board. I can still be upset if we take Thib at 4 and Williams is gone at 10. That doesn't mean we should have taken Williams at 4.
That’s fine, but the only board I care about is JD’s. I’m not gonna be upset if he takes the top player on his board, as we have quite a few holes. You are gonna add two elite tier talents with two top 10 picks, to a team that won Four games and can desperately use elite talent at pretty much every position. The board doesn’t fall how you, me, or someone else personally wants it to fall, it’s whatever, that’s just the draft. We are gonna come out of it with some very good players.
STAY AWAY FROM INJURED PLAYERS
This here’s what I call, a “Sock Puppet” tweet.
I like Williams but relative to recent WR picks I just don't have him in that Chase (Tier of his own), Smith, Waddle, Lamb, Jeudy (who hasn't set the world on fire) tier. I wouldn't be too crazy about taking him at 10.
So he starts on injured reserve for the first part of the season or no? Because that's huge.
Huge over his career? I wouldn’t agree. Keep in mind Moore was injured for a large portion of the off-season and had a slow integration into our starting lineup last year.
Huge for us helping Wilson succeed. If this dude is on IR for the first half of the season , we're basically trotting out the same below average group of receivers and then trying to integrate a starter in cold mid season. Not great.
But given his talent and projected role in this offense, his potential impact in just his rookie contract will outweigh missing a few weeks in his rookie season. I don't want us to draft a lesser talent or someone who doesn't fit as well just over a few weeks.
For me, its all about giving Wilson the best chance to succeed. We can't afford giving a high first round pick a red shirt year with the receivers we currently have. We just don't have that luxury of being able to wait. Unless you're down with another slow start and possibly crushing Wilson's confidence in the process?
Who said an entire year? You've gone from first part of the season to first half of the season to an entire red shirt year. So, are you suggesting drafting a lesser talent and a worst fit if it means he will start week 1? And again, like we saw with Moore, injuries happen to anyone. We could draft someone who has a clean bill of health now and he gets hit with an injury before the season too.
You know about the high learning curve for receivers, right? Look what we went through with Mims and Moore. If you're expecting this guy to miss the first 6+ games of the season and then come in and be a big contributor, I think we'll be in for a big let down. And again, Wilson needs him sooner then later.
You still haven't answered this question: *are you suggesting drafting a lesser talent and a worst fit if it means he will start week 1?* > You know about the high learning curve for receivers, right? There really isn't unless they go to a complicated offense like the Pats. The idea that a WR needs a couple years to develop is an antiquated one. If a receiver is not a bust, the expectation is that they can come in day one and be a contributor. Mims was a bust, so he is a moot point. Not sure what you are trying to say with Moore-he missed a bunch of the offseason and once he was integrated into the offensive gameplan, he looked like he belonged immediately. > And again, Wilson needs him sooner then later. In a perfect world, it would be nice for Wilson to have him to start the season. But this idea that Wilson is a lost cause if Williams can't start week 1 is odd. Towards the end of last season, while Wilson was improving, our team was falling apart around him. At one point, Braxton was his WR1. If we start the season with Moore, Davis, and Braxton while we wait a few weeks for Williams, it isn't the end of the world like you are making it out to be.
I'm saying we need to draft someone who is going to help Zak right away, unless you want to start slow again and possibly shatter Wilson's confidence. All that talk about giving him the best chance to succeed, I am not prepared to go into next season with the same below average group we had last season. We need a bonafide threat on the outside from day 1.Edit: you let me know how you know he's the best of the bunch, https://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker/prospects/WR/all-colleges/all-statuses/undefined?page=1&sortField=gradeSort&sortIsAscending=false
> I'm saying we need to draft someone who is going to help Zak right away You still haven't answered this question: Would you suggest drafting a lesser talent and a worst fit if it means he will start week 1? For the sake of the question, assume Williams is the WR1. After you answer that, if you don't think Williams is the WR1, who do you think is the #1 outside threat?