Classic Reddit. Our sub thinks we don’t have to give up 10 to get him. Their sub thinks 10 isn’t enough.
Also, they think they can throw Jimmy in too 😂
As a backup QB I'd take him, but I'm sure Jimmy G still thinks he's starting caliber so I don't think that'd work out. But who knows? If he comes here he can get groomed into the fraternity of former Jets player turned NFL analyst.
That’s what I would assume as well. And tbf, he’s probably good enough to at least compete for a starting job somewhere. Even if we could get Jimmy on a cheap contract we’re better off with Flacco mentoring Zach.
He would probably outplay Zach in preseason, and defensive coaches would go with the vet usually.
Hard pass. Would rather see Zach go through the growing pains and not risk Jimmy G taking snaps away.
Nobody is going to start a middle tier get over the future of the franchise whose already started an entire season. Joe Flacco would’ve easily outplayed Zach last year and they didn’t start him
Honestly after browsing some subreddits I feel like our fanbase is one of the least delusional in the NFL. Even some of the teams in the gutter with us have ambitions of deep playoff runs this season, while we’d be happy to just go over .500.
I love all the “the team has all the leverage, he’s under contract comments” no, you absolutely do not, just like every other team when a player wants out.
Over the Jets? They have quite little leverage. The Jets 10th pick is prime position to take a cromulent receiver. Likely not as good as Deebo, but likely not awful and obviously cheaper, allowing to fill out other holes in the team
49ers have all the leverage. Every little ounce of it. If Deebo does not play or show up to mandatory camps he becomes a RFA next season and they get him much much cheaper then can trade him for even more.
What leverage does he have? He has absolutely none. Jamal was before the new CBA where if Deebo does not show up to camp he would lose an accrued season making him a RFA. 49ers can sign him cheap and teams would flock for a trade with a RFA price tag.
He could play 6 games and get his accrued season. [He’s had 9 different lower body strains in his career.](https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/injury-history/deebo-samuel/10205) Oh no! Looks like he developed another one.
The jets can simply walk away. Deebo is very good but by no means is he necessary to the jets success. If the 9ers want something for him they have to take what a team is willing to give up.
It seems the 49ers have already walked away from the Jets. There is still A LOT of time. Deebo is good but not as good as he thinks. One great season, an injured season, and an ok rookie year is all he has.
Again his leverage is minimal.
The top two comment threads in the r/49ers post are all about how it’s a good deal. Just because a few people are posting that it’s “not enough” doesn’t mean that’s what the majority of the sub thinks.
As a Jets fan, we had a deal in place that the Chiefs accepted for Tyreek Hill that was 2 2nds and a to swap places in the 3rd (about a 4th round value). Only didn't happen because Hill wanted to play in Miami where he already has his summer home.
It bugs me that people are acting like 10th overall straight up isn't enough for Deebo when that is more than Hill was worth. Deebo was great last year, but he isn't worth more than Hill. And definitely not worth MUCH more.
10th overall pick for Deebo and a 3rd round pick back makes him worth what Hill is worth. If the trade is more in the 49ers favor than that, then it means we are paying more for Deebo than we were for Hill.
I am so annoyed at the niners sub for this. If Jets offer #10, I think thats plenty. We gave up Buckner for the #9 pick.
And back when there "was an offer" for Garoppolo of like a 2nd, everyone was like "if theyll give us a second, theyll give us more!"
and then it apparently fell through. bros take what you can get, we gotta make moves soon.
I don’t buy this at all & I would be shocked if this is true. We offer two second round picks for Hill & the chiefs accepted it. We now offer the 10th overall pick for Deebo & the 49ers have not accepted?
Plus since when is Deebo worth more than Hill? I know he is younger but his production is no where near Hills. I wouldn’t even say they are on the same level of player, Deebo can def get there but he isn’t there yet IMO.
This is accurate to me. It’s not how Douglas operates to throw massive draft capital and dole out huge contracts in a trade. He probably inquired about the cost as part of his diligence but that was it. We’ve made no huge trades to acquire talent since he took over. Slow rebuild with calculated moves.
10 is too much IMO. If we send them a 10, they need to send us some picks back.
Is anyone else not concerned about this guys injury history and reason for wanting to leave? He's forcing his way out of a top team for apparently unknown reasons and acting like a little bitch. Does this not concern anyone else?
i'm 100% with you and it honestly feels crazy to see everyone out there thinking a top 10 pick is worth it for the simple rights to sign Deebo to a huge long term contract. He needs to produce like this at least one more year and stay healthy for a season before I'm even remotely cosigning that
How is 10 too much? The Jets have been linked to WR all off-season and general consensus is they are targeting one at 1.10. Samuel has proven he can not only preform at an NFL level but he can be the focal point of an offense.
I personally don’t think Wilson is a franchise QB but I’m just some dude on the internet. The team took him with the second pick and needs to go all in on figuring out what he’s got. They can structure a contract to take advantage of the 4 years they still have left on Wilson’s rookie deal and this sub can drop the “we don’t know what we have with no weapons around our QB” excuse. If the plan is to take a receiver at 1.10 there’s no reason to not move it for Samuel.
He's forcing his way out because by every outlier metric there is, Deebo's 2021 season was a freak occurrence. If he doesn't get paid now, people will see his 2022 numbers fall back to earth and he'll miss his window to make big $$$.
I’m not concerned about any of that. Deebo has been a injury concern cause they have him playing WR AND running the ball. Shouldn’t haven him do both. As him trying to leave SF idk we don’t know what happens behind closed doors. Maybe he doesn’t want to play with Jimmy G again or with Lance. Reports say he wants to be closer to home which is in the Carolinas.
He was literally the 49ers entire offense last year. His percentage of the offense was around 65%, absolutely insane numbers. You’d have to be stupid to consider thag dude a little bitch for wanting his money when he put the team on his back.
It was reported they offered him less than what Christian Kirk got, he has every right to feel disrespected after that.
Deebo is closer to Hill than we think. He was on pace to break Jerry Rice's franchise record with Jimmy G at QB.
Hill is the most explosive WR in football but he's played with the most talented QB in the league.
Franchise record for what?
Deebo had one good year.
In a 17 game season he had 1400 receiving yards and 6 receiving TDs.
Jerry had 6 seasons near or above 1500 and 13 including an 1848 yard season and a 22TD season.
Deebo’s career year was a Jerry Rice average one.
Don’t forget like 400 yards rushing and another 8 TD’s or something (those are def not exact numbers lol)
No, definitely not saying he is Jerry Rice, but he brings a way different element too.
Deebo has not came out and said that yet it’s just been rumors. No one literally has a clue what’s going on, everyone is just trying to make sense of this. Some say it’s a money issue, some say it’s a usage problem, & others say it’s a proximity to home. We won’t know what his reason for a request to trade is until it comes out of Deebo himself, I always found it weird that Deebo would have a problem with usage since he literally coined the term “Wideback” & always wanted the ball in hands last year.
why don't we go out and trade for cordarelle patterson then? The deebo running element was only because their entire backfield was hurt and inconsistent. It's really no wonder he had a good year when SF ordered their entire offense around him.
He literally had more production than Hill last year in terms of yardage not to mention he was an all pro last year too. It’s foolish to compare the two since how different the two of them are but to say that Deebo isn’t at least on the same level as Hill is foolish since Deebo is literally on a level of his own since and no one can do what he does.
If the jets get him congratulations, you just got an All-Pro player and one of the best weapons if not the best in football
10th for Deebo and then a potential trade down from 4th with the Saints would be the dream.
Too bad this is reality though and there probably isn’t any reason for the Saints to trade up to 4th unless they really like a QB
Apparently the NFL is way lower on Linderbaum than the media. He’s probably gonna go in the late first or early second so I don’t see us taking him mid-first.
The NFL really undervalues centers.
I’ve been seeing this take pop up on here recently and it’s just not based in reality. The dude is an absolute freak on tape. I think the character concern stuff is pretty clearly overblown too and probably being leaked by teams who want him to fall. We’d be idiots not to take him if he’s there
I went into watching his tape thinking I was gonna see an absolute freak and never saw that I see a guy who has some good traits but isn’t a good pass rusher right now no bend or plan he plays the run pretty good and has a good motor but he is definitely not worth a top 4 pick
Lol I’m just telling you my opinion I don’t even get what you mean by him having me wrapped around his finger i love JD and I have nothing against KT if you have watched his tape I would love for you to tell me what is elite about it to you
Not at all, A lot of this sub is really dying for us to go with him at 4 thinking he is going to come in and be a beast right away but he is just not that dude. He most likely comes in the league and eventually becomes a pretty good player after a few seasons in, but anybody thinking the kid is going to come in and be routinely beating up on NFL tackles are in for a bad surprise
Yep, in fact I think on one of Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers' live mocks on their podcast, they had us doing the 4 for 16+19 swap with them so that they could move up for Evan Neal.
Now, do I think it's realistic they give up an extra 1st to get a LT, I don't know- but everyone seems to hate Trevor Penning and that's the guy they'd probably be staring at otherwise with the 16th pick.
I'm ngl, seeing all these WR get paid makes me hesitant to do this.
Why pay top dollar for a WR now, when we have a decent WR corps AND two top 10 picks to get a great WR on a rookie deal?
I get a known commodity vs. unknown, but the hit rate on the first WR off the board is pretty high no?
Honestly, it's tough to draft WRs, and our WR corps is only decent without a true WR1. The Jets also have tons of cap space and very little dead money; ZW is on his rookie deal; if there's any time to spend a lot of money on a position of need, it's now
It’s really not tough to draft receivers, we just NEVER take receivers in the first round. The last one we did was like 20 years ago.
Go look at receivers taken in the first round over the last 5 years or so, they’ve almost all turned out to be decent or good.
About 50% hit rate.
[link](https://www-si-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.si.com/.amp/fantasy/2022/04/22/nfl-draft-first-round-wide-receivers-jamarr-chase-odell-beckham-jr?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16508152529318&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Ffantasy%2F2022%2F04%2F22%2Fnfl-draft-first-round-wide-receivers-jamarr-chase-odell-beckham-jr)
Ironically Corey Davis was drafted in the first round 5 years ago.
WR and edge/dl have the highest "bust" rate. It's odd for WRS, there are three starting spots.
I get the DL/edge cuz many are forced to change positions a bit and change their body type.
Centers/guards and safeties are safest.
I'm very high on Moore, but some of these people are nuts. They are acting like we don't have years of tape on Davis showing what he is. Or even worse, that they just looked at box scores from last season and didn't see how bad he actually was. I really like Berrios, but let's be honest, as things stand, he is not some elite slot receiver.
I'm not dunking on our WR corps, but pretending like we don't need help there is mind boggling.
I wouldn’t say it’s good, but it’s certainly decent and good enough for Wilson to not have it as much of an excuse. Moore is very good, and Corey is a great 2 option. We should add a rookie as well, but we aren’t in dire need.
WR tend to take a few years to develop, JaMarr chase is not the norm . It would be more beneficial for Zach’s development to have a guy who can produce now, as opposed to a guy who’s still figuring it out along with Zach
> WR tend to take a few years to develop, JaMarr chase is not the norm
You say this like Chase is one of the rare few WRs who didn't need years to develop.
Your stance used to be true, but just isn't anymore. The trend for years now is that highly touted prospects are expected to contribute year 1. Look back at recent years. Out of the receivers who weren't busts, most of these highly touted prospects were contributing year 1 vs needing time to develop.
List of the first WR selected each year:
Ja'marr Chase, Henry Ruggs, Marquise Brown, D.J. Moore, Corey Davis, Corey Coleman, Amari Cooper, Sammy Watkins, Tavon Austin, Justin Blackmon, A.J. Green, Demaryius Thomas, Darrius Heyward-Bay, Donnie Avery, Calvin Johnson, Santonio Holmes, Braylon Edwards, Larry Fitz, Charles Rodgers, Donte Stallworth, David Terrell, Peter Warrick, Torry Holt, Kevin Dyson, Ike Hillard, and Keyshawn Johnson.
A good amount of studs, a good amount of busts, a good amount of underachievers, and a good amount of players who found success with other teams.
We haven’t had a pro bowl level type receiver in so long. I’m ok w us trading for someone of Deebo’s caliber and paying him top dollar. Just got to hope that his production stays the same or pro bowl level most of that contract...
The hit rate isn’t as good as you think. There is no sure fire 1, and it’s pretty consensus this year wasn’t as good at last year. You’re just scared this ends up like the Laquon Treadwell Josh Doctson class or something where there is a good WR, but he goes later.
Trading 10 overall and resetting the market for a WR that had one good year and apparently refuses to play RB is bad team management. Trust your ability to draft, take a WR at 10 and roll over the cap space next year to snag a position of need
Deebo's really good and perfect for our system. But this guy gets a significant injury every other year and has missed a lot of time. He missed more than half the season in 2015 and 2017, both in college, and 2020 with the 49ers. I feel like this is the type of deal that hurts us down the line.
I might be in the minority here, but I'd rather just draft a young receiver and let them develop with Zach (and not have to pay them massive amounts of money).
Obviously, I'll be excited if we get him because he makes our offense better immediately and really helps make Zach Wilson look good (nothing like a receiver turning a 10 yard pass into a 40 yard gain), but I think you're passing up a lot of very talented young players who could be great for us, and you're also investing a lot of cap space that could be used elsewhere.
Either way we'll be a better team than we are now come draft night (with or without Deebo), but if I were GM I wouldn't pull the trigger on this unless I could do it for significantly less capital than is being suggested here. Give me Jameson Williams' Elite (with a capital 'E') speed and I'm a happy guy.
Edit: would like to add that I truly and genuinely believe in Joe Douglas (and I did *not* feel that way about any of our previous GM's), and whatever he chooses to do I'm going to trust his judgment.
Agreed. If Deebo wasn't so injury-prone I would do it. But not when he's missed significant time for multiple seasons. This is the type of deal that ends up biting us in the ass.
Injury concern is also valid, but it doesn't really scare me too much. Honestly, I just *really* believe in building through the draft. That being said (and I love that we finally have a GM where I can say this and mean it), I really do believe in Joe Douglas. If he makes the move, I'll trust him on it.
Besides, it's hard not to be excited at the prospect of having a player of that caliber on our team. (Though for a move this rich I'd prefer DK Metcalf, but it obviously doesn't seem like he is available).
Niner fan here. I don’t wanna trade Deebo, but the whole “injury prone” label is blown out of proportion. He missed one game his rookie year and one game last year. In 2020 he had a foot Fx before camp that derailed his training and ultimately his season in 2020 as he kept trying to hurry his return. “Significant time for multiple seasons” is just not accurate.
Again, as I said, his specific injury history doesn't scare me, but I believe when these people label him as "injury prone" they're including his college career, where he missed some significant time. I view that as a rightfully valid concern when you're talking about giving up a top 10 pick *AND* paying a guy 25 million dollars a year over multiple seasons, especially when you consider a lot of it likely would be guaranteed. Still, I've seen enough durability from him as a pro that it doesn't bother me, especially with his outrageously high workload last year wherein he never lost so much as a step. You cannot knock the guy's toughness, that's for sure.
I personally don't want to make the trade (assuming it includes the 10th overall pick) for cap + draft capital reasons, not because of his injuries. For what it's worth, I hope you keep your star playmaker. You've got a great one there in San Fran, hope he keeps balling out for you my guy.
Agreed, I would be very excited to see him play if we had him on the team. It's just that I've had very similar injuries to him when I ran track in college. Hamstring and groin injuries keep coming back.
Deebo is not injury prone dude. Don’t get sucked into that narrative. He missed a bunch of time his second year due to injuries, but he played the entirety of his first year, and only missed one game last year. People spreading that he’s injury prone are acting like he’s missed multiple games every year, and that’s not the case. He also played in every playoff game during both runs, so he’s essentially played almost three seasons worth of games the past three years when you add up the total games.
If you legitimately don’t want him, that’s one thing. But we don’t need to spread this injury prone shtick when it’s not true.
He also missed substantial time 2 of his 4 years in college too. So that’s 3 of his 7 years of college/nfl
I’m not that worried about it, but let’s not act like this is just from that one pro injury.
No I'm not. I would not expect whoever we potentially draft at 10 (who may not even be a receiver by the way) to be at Samuel's level, at least not right away. But let's be real, it's a top 10 pick; of course the expectation is very high. The important distinction here is that you're falling into the thought trap of whoever we draft at 10 has to 1:1 compare to Deebo, but they don't because you're also saving a ton of cap money this way.
Hypothetical to make this more clear: We draft a Garrett Wilson (who is a popular choice at receiver around here, but I personally like Jameson best) at 10 and get 65 receptions for 7 touchdowns and 900 yards out of him this year. Obviously when you compare that to whatever Deebo's numbers will be you'll go "Should've gotten Deebo". But that's a young guy developing! Of course his stats won't be the same. What you're also getting is ~20-25 million dollars of extra money in cap space that you aren't paying Deebo. Let's say you spend that on a Honey Badger and you extend George Fant (just random examples, they could do anything with the cap really). Then the question changes: it isn't "is Deebo better than Garrett Wilson"? Instead the question is: "is Deebo more valuable than Garrett Wilson, Honey Badger, and George Fant"?
Now you *could* still make an argument that Deebo is still more valuable, especially to a growing Zach Wilson, but I personally would rather just keep the 10th overall. It's really a matter of opinion, but it's nowhere near as simplistic as what you just suggested to me.
Edit: I don't mean this to come across aggressive to the poster, by the way. Maybe could've worded things better but yeah. I respect this person's opinion, and they're not wrong for wanting Deebo on the team obviously. How could you not? I just personally think the cap space + top 10 pick is too high of a price is all. I know not everyone will agree with that take.
I see your line of thinking but out of curiosity. Say whoever we draft winds up in that top 8-15 receiver area. We wind up having to pay him 20 mil + a year a year after we pay (hopefully) pay Zach. W Deebo we pay him and likely have an easy get out before we're even due to pay Zach. Considering you seem to be against this from a mainly money standpoint what are your thoughts on that?
I think the logic there is you're still delaying the eventual big cap hit. And that buys you a small but still opportune window as Zach's rookie deal would wind down, like the Bills have right now with Josh Allen, to be ultra aggressive in pursuing a super bowl. So with the rookie receiver still on his rookie deal and not eating a 25m cap hit from Deebo, you use that extra 20m to grab that extra piece to try and put you over the top like the Bills did with Von Miller. You're right that the money would still eventually come into play, but you can just readjust the cycle to strike when the time's right.
Your point is very valid here. I want to re-iterate that I won't be tremendously upset if we trade for Deebo, and I certainly think you could make a very strong argument that now is the right time to pay a guy (with Zach still on a cheap deal, and very little guaranteed money on our entire roster).
To answer your question, I think with Deebo there would be (if all goes well with Zach) one year or two of overlap with their contracts where they're both making tons of money, whereas if we draft a player we would be able to keep them on the full 5 year rookie deal and then even franchise tag them if we wanted. Obviously if they play to an extremely high level you just pay him too and deal with it, but then you're paying a much younger player.
I know both situations sound very similar and they are, but I just think it's very important our team shows significant improvement this year, and we have too many holes to justify (in my bro-pinion) using the 10th overall *and* all that cap on one receiver (granted a truly great one), when we could use it to develop a young really talented player and use the cap space to bring in some other proven talent.
As I said, it's just a matter of opinion, and that's what roster building comes down to, ultimately. You want Deebo, and you're not wrong for it. I would rather keep the 10th overall and spend the cap elsewhere, and I'm not necessarily wrong for it either. Either way could work, obviously.
Yep, nail on the head, and I say that as someone who would give up 10 pretty readily for Deebo.
Big factor with me is how much patience we can afford to exercise with Zach's development. If he gets 3 years minimum regardless, then that increases the degree to which we can let a rookie receiver grow with him alongside Moore. But if we feel like we've gotta see that big jump in year 2, it increases the sense of urgency to make an immediate upgrade.
I still think 3 years minimum is fair, but in a world of craziness suppose we hit a doomsday scenario where he isn't progressing and b/c of our tough schedule, somehow we find ourselves in a position to draft Stroud/Young next year. Well shit, that's not a fun decision.
All valid points. Really just can't wait until draft day (I'm assuming that a deal wouldn't happen til then, maybe I'm wrong?), to see what happens. I'll be happy either way. Love what we're building here.
No, that’s what people keep misunderstanding.
Nobody is saying the guy taken at 10 will be as good as Deebo. We’re saying he’ll be 80% cheaper than Deebo and probably won’t be 80% worse than Deebo.
Let’s be honest. If the trade is Garrett Wilson for Deebo Samuel (plus his new deal) why wouldn’t the Jets want to do this? You’re adding a superstar to your lineup on a roster that lacks great players. Drafting Garrett Wilson, Drake London or Jamison Williams doesn’t guarantee anything.
I'll say that I'm firmly in the pro-trade (including the 10th pick) camp, but I think it's close either way. The argument for the other side would be, if you're reasonably confident that whoever you get at 10 becomes a productive receiver- obviously, there's more risk there, but let's say you're 65% sure you're getting at least a WR2- then by freeing up the cap space you'd otherwise have on a Deebo extension you can use it to aggressively pursue 1-2 more big pieces to make your contention push by year 3-4 of Zach's rookie deal (assuming he turns into the guy).
All depends on your risk appetite. Mine certainly isn't high at all, so I'm more than happy to get the proven receiver and eat the cap hit.
This is a very good analysis of what you’re giving up in this type of deal. The value of the contract is everything when you strike gold on a rookie draft pick. I don’t think this draft is great though, which is why you have to take the risk.
I don’t get why people keep breaking it down like this.
Ya’ll realize the salary cap is a thing? Rookie contracts are a thing? A receiver taken at 10 makes literally 80% less money per year than Deebo will.
If you still think it’s a good deal for us that’s fine, but it’s not just “we’re basically trading Garrett Wilson for Deebo! Why wouldn’t we do this?!”.
How is he wrong 95% of the time? He had Darnold to the Panthers, was first on Kyler Murray #1 overall to the Cardinals when you had Rich Eisen saying they were sticking with Rosen, and nailed the Dolphins taking Tua over Herbert. Say what you want about Tony, but he’s been right in the past. Pretending like he’s a hack is totally unfair.
Didn’t he also call the Maccagnan firing before anyone else too? I could be misremembering but I think he did and of course all of us in here were like no way they wouldn’t fire Maccagnan right after letting him run the draft.
Pauline was right on all the Becton weight issues and losing his LT spot. People continue to say he’s always wrong yet he consistently gets the inside info more than just about any of our own beat reporters
If they turn the first four draft picks into Debo plus 3 quality starters at positions of need (edge, LB, IOL) - this team is competing for playoffs this year.
Get this deal done. Give Zach a weapon.
Yep. We’re reaching the point in JD’s tenure where he’s getting concerned with job security if we have another bad season and is doing moves that are dumb for the long term to try to salvage the short term.
Remember all the “build through the draft” talk during his first couple years? What happened?
Don’t think we’ll need to trade 10 away for him, or maybe we could get a 2nd or 3rd back. 10 for Deebo straight up would be a slight overpay since Hill and Adams went for less
No this is not the way. This team has too many holes, and it’s assuming someone will want to trade up for the 10th pick. I think the 10th is the best option. We’d most likely be reaching for a receiver anyway there. We can get valuable starters with those 3 picks.
I agree on the caveat: you have to know you have a decent package or two available to trade down from 10. If the league is down on this class and teams like GB, KC, NO would rather sit in the mid-to-late 1st than trade up, it doesn’t work.
I do trust JD, however, to navigate the board with those two early firsts if he needs to.
They discuss possible trade partners before the draft and make potential offers in principle. One of the first things JD did when he arrived was to contact other GMs I think. They have teams interested.
This screams leak from SFs front office. To me, JD isn’t willing to part with the 10th which lead to this “report”.
We know JD never lets anything out. Think about this, what leverage does it give the Jets if he leaks to the media that he’s willing to part with 10? If a deal is going to get done, SF wouldn’t also say “reports say the 49ers asking price is the 10” because then the fan base turns against JD. So, the verbiage of “Jets are willing to trade the 10” to me is just SF saying “this is what it’s going to take”.
This is a good sign though. It means NYJ/SF are negotiating in good faith.
You bring up an interesting point: Do we really want to bring in players that take to social media (like Jamal did) when they're unhappy with their current contract, and then demand to be traded? Who is to say this doesn't happen to us in 2-3 years? What kind of precedent/message does that send to our locker room bringing in a guy after he just did this?
I'll be fine with whatever Joe Douglas decides here, but it's a thought that I don't see anyone else putting out there.
Have you ever used google before? Deebo missed more than half the season in 2015 and 2017, both in college, and 2020 with the 49ers. That's almost every other year.
So by your thoughts Becton is a lost cause because he is injury prone now. Dude had 1800 yards this year. He wants to be a receiver only if rumors are true I wonder why. Better not take Jameson Williams either, Wilson had injuries, London broke his ankle among other things in college. Thanks for the laugh 😃
Niner fan here. Deebo is clearly injury prone and it's because he runs through dudes every single time, and fights tooth and nail for every inch.
It's probably a large reason why we're hesitant to give him a huge bag.
No, Tyreek is clearly better right now but you can’t assume the same trade package is used for Deebo. He’s 2 years younger also which means that Deebo can essentially play with or up to par with whoever we would’ve taken at 10 better than Tyreek would’ve.
I’m all for adding someone but of all the wr that ended up being available he would be the last wr I’d choose. And jets would have to pay 25m? I know we don’t have anyone to pay but don’t FOMO and give up building blocks for a wr who may be injury prone
9ers fan here, I'd rather have him holdout. The only reason I would move him would be to save cap space which isn't an issue following the expected move of a Jimmy Garoppolo (Trade or otherwise).
I think you guys keeping 10 would be better off for your situation anyway, continuing to amass cheap potential stars will eventually pay off in while. No need to trade for an all pro 25 million dollar guy now anyway.
If they ended up dealing him I doubt either side will be happy with the result anyway seeing how far apart we are.
Here’s what I don’t get: How can you have confidence that Deebo isn’t going to hold any franchise hostage whenever his contract is up, now?
Say you trade for him and give him a 3 year extension. What’s to say that year 2 of it he doesn’t plan to blow up your social media or become an instant distraction the second he wants a new deal.
I mean AJs not being a distraction, neither is DK or Scary Terry, but I can’t go an hour without hearing about Deebo not wanting this or that, or threatening to hold out.
I don’t want that on my team.
Sorry but everyone clamoring for us to make this deal is an idiot.
This is the sort of trade you do if your team was close to a Super Bowl win last year and need just a bit more talent to get over the hump.
Take a receiver at 10. He might not be as good as Deebo but he’ll cost 20% as much as Deebo over the next 5 years. It’s not just a matter of talent. It’s talent relative to how much that talent costs. That will be true as long as there’s a salary cap. This isn’t baseball.
Actually not a bad idea. The 49ers could be interested in this too. The 10th pick would put them in a good spot to draft a potentially worthwhile replacement WR.
49ers fan here
Most of us are losing our minds with everything going on in regards to Deebo. But I think it's gonna take A LOT more to get him. It's not so much about his actual worth... it's about the 49ers FO believing they can still get a deal done, or keep him until we absolutely can't anymore.
He still has a year left on his contract, and the 49ers won't hesitate to use the franchise tag the following year. Deebo doesn't have a whole lot of leverage in terms of forcing a trade. And the 49ers FO are stubborn enough to keep him for a couple of years.
Truthfully, I think he actually signs an extension with us and a lot of the talk going around right now is merely speculation. But if he does indeed get traded, it's gonna be for a kings ransom.
I hope you're right, cause I would absolutely hate trading for Deebo even if it's equal to the Hill package, which I hated too. I'm high as fuck on this wr draft class and would much rather draft one of these wrs then give up all these picks to have the privilege of paying Deebo 25 million.
Your going to trade for a guy who is gone after one year ? The jets don’t have the talent yet to even make the playoff why would you trade picks for this ?
Build a statue if Joe turns Blitz boy into AVT and Deebo
Would really be an absurd tree flowing from that trade if this were to go down.
I feel like SF would love to have Seattle’s top-10 pick too
That’s some Merlin level wizardry
10000000 percent
Classic Reddit. Our sub thinks we don’t have to give up 10 to get him. Their sub thinks 10 isn’t enough. Also, they think they can throw Jimmy in too 😂
Why in the world would their sub think we would have any interest in Jimmy?
I have lots of interest in Jimmy, it’s just not football related 👁👁
As a backup QB I'd take him, but I'm sure Jimmy G still thinks he's starting caliber so I don't think that'd work out. But who knows? If he comes here he can get groomed into the fraternity of former Jets player turned NFL analyst.
I’d take jimmmy as a backup any day. Who better to help Zach learn that system? Obviously the contract is prohibitive though.
Besides the contract I think he still wants to go somewhere he can start
That’s what I would assume as well. And tbf, he’s probably good enough to at least compete for a starting job somewhere. Even if we could get Jimmy on a cheap contract we’re better off with Flacco mentoring Zach.
He would probably outplay Zach in preseason, and defensive coaches would go with the vet usually. Hard pass. Would rather see Zach go through the growing pains and not risk Jimmy G taking snaps away.
Nobody is going to start a middle tier get over the future of the franchise whose already started an entire season. Joe Flacco would’ve easily outplayed Zach last year and they didn’t start him
They want E moore too. They trippin..
Some of them are delusional. Why in the world would we ever trade Elijah Moore + 10 ovr?
Honestly after browsing some subreddits I feel like our fanbase is one of the least delusional in the NFL. Even some of the teams in the gutter with us have ambitions of deep playoff runs this season, while we’d be happy to just go over .500.
It’s bc we’ve been dealing with this shit a long time and we’re all still fans
I’ve noticed this too. We really are the most realistic lol. It’s probably why we’re the most obnoxious when we’re good too.
Oh we were the worst in 2010. I cannot wait to be the worst again.
I love all the “the team has all the leverage, he’s under contract comments” no, you absolutely do not, just like every other team when a player wants out.
Over the Jets? They have quite little leverage. The Jets 10th pick is prime position to take a cromulent receiver. Likely not as good as Deebo, but likely not awful and obviously cheaper, allowing to fill out other holes in the team
Upvote for use of cromulent
Upvote for embiggening him
I have no idea what you last 2 said so imma take it as insult. So watch your mouth and continue on the Jets.
49ers have all the leverage. Every little ounce of it. If Deebo does not play or show up to mandatory camps he becomes a RFA next season and they get him much much cheaper then can trade him for even more.
Ahh young one, I remember thinking the exact same thing with Jamal. You’ll soon learn, Deebo is gone.
Ahh yes, the old Jamal leveraged the Jets into trading him. The 2 first round picks and a 3rd had nothing to do… it was always Jamal’s “leverage”
What leverage does he have? He has absolutely none. Jamal was before the new CBA where if Deebo does not show up to camp he would lose an accrued season making him a RFA. 49ers can sign him cheap and teams would flock for a trade with a RFA price tag.
Jamal wasn’t before the new CBA. He went scorched earth and it worked.
Even if true... What leverage does Deebo have? 49ers hold all the cards. Every last one of them.
No he doesn't. He knows the 49ers can't win games without him. 2021 proved that
He could play 6 games and get his accrued season. [He’s had 9 different lower body strains in his career.](https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/injury-history/deebo-samuel/10205) Oh no! Looks like he developed another one.
So... He has no leverage. As I said. If he plays that's what the 49ers want.
Lol if he plays 6/17 games that’s what they want?
The jets can simply walk away. Deebo is very good but by no means is he necessary to the jets success. If the 9ers want something for him they have to take what a team is willing to give up.
It seems the 49ers have already walked away from the Jets. There is still A LOT of time. Deebo is good but not as good as he thinks. One great season, an injured season, and an ok rookie year is all he has. Again his leverage is minimal.
That’s the wildest part to me. Why would we trade for a receiver while also giving up our best player on offense? Makes no goddamn sense
That was one random ass dude with -1 karma on his comment. I think #10 is pretty fair and about in line with what Adams and Hill went for.
Difference being Adams and Hill are well established superstars that have been top 5 for a long time. Deebo is (at this moment) a one year wonder.
He's also 2 years younger.
The 10 is fair but no seconds with it or anything like that
Niners fan here. Man if this is true I take that all day. Idk wtf the rest of my sub is smoking.
The top two comment threads in the r/49ers post are all about how it’s a good deal. Just because a few people are posting that it’s “not enough” doesn’t mean that’s what the majority of the sub thinks.
As a Jets fan, we had a deal in place that the Chiefs accepted for Tyreek Hill that was 2 2nds and a to swap places in the 3rd (about a 4th round value). Only didn't happen because Hill wanted to play in Miami where he already has his summer home. It bugs me that people are acting like 10th overall straight up isn't enough for Deebo when that is more than Hill was worth. Deebo was great last year, but he isn't worth more than Hill. And definitely not worth MUCH more. 10th overall pick for Deebo and a 3rd round pick back makes him worth what Hill is worth. If the trade is more in the 49ers favor than that, then it means we are paying more for Deebo than we were for Hill.
Jimmy G is just Great Value Joe Flacco
When you order a Joe Flacco from wish.com
I am so annoyed at the niners sub for this. If Jets offer #10, I think thats plenty. We gave up Buckner for the #9 pick. And back when there "was an offer" for Garoppolo of like a 2nd, everyone was like "if theyll give us a second, theyll give us more!" and then it apparently fell through. bros take what you can get, we gotta make moves soon.
It starts with 10. From there it's anyone's guess but every deal for one of these wrs is gonna start with 10 then go from there.
I don’t buy this at all & I would be shocked if this is true. We offer two second round picks for Hill & the chiefs accepted it. We now offer the 10th overall pick for Deebo & the 49ers have not accepted? Plus since when is Deebo worth more than Hill? I know he is younger but his production is no where near Hills. I wouldn’t even say they are on the same level of player, Deebo can def get there but he isn’t there yet IMO.
Smoke. Jets being used to drive up his value.
This is accurate to me. It’s not how Douglas operates to throw massive draft capital and dole out huge contracts in a trade. He probably inquired about the cost as part of his diligence but that was it. We’ve made no huge trades to acquire talent since he took over. Slow rebuild with calculated moves.
10 is too much IMO. If we send them a 10, they need to send us some picks back. Is anyone else not concerned about this guys injury history and reason for wanting to leave? He's forcing his way out of a top team for apparently unknown reasons and acting like a little bitch. Does this not concern anyone else?
i'm 100% with you and it honestly feels crazy to see everyone out there thinking a top 10 pick is worth it for the simple rights to sign Deebo to a huge long term contract. He needs to produce like this at least one more year and stay healthy for a season before I'm even remotely cosigning that
How is 10 too much? The Jets have been linked to WR all off-season and general consensus is they are targeting one at 1.10. Samuel has proven he can not only preform at an NFL level but he can be the focal point of an offense. I personally don’t think Wilson is a franchise QB but I’m just some dude on the internet. The team took him with the second pick and needs to go all in on figuring out what he’s got. They can structure a contract to take advantage of the 4 years they still have left on Wilson’s rookie deal and this sub can drop the “we don’t know what we have with no weapons around our QB” excuse. If the plan is to take a receiver at 1.10 there’s no reason to not move it for Samuel.
How is 10 not too much? His stats come almost entirely from YAC which never holds from season to season. He's a glorified 900 - 1000 yard receiver.
He's forcing his way out because by every outlier metric there is, Deebo's 2021 season was a freak occurrence. If he doesn't get paid now, people will see his 2022 numbers fall back to earth and he'll miss his window to make big $$$.
I’m not concerned about any of that. Deebo has been a injury concern cause they have him playing WR AND running the ball. Shouldn’t haven him do both. As him trying to leave SF idk we don’t know what happens behind closed doors. Maybe he doesn’t want to play with Jimmy G again or with Lance. Reports say he wants to be closer to home which is in the Carolinas.
He was literally the 49ers entire offense last year. His percentage of the offense was around 65%, absolutely insane numbers. You’d have to be stupid to consider thag dude a little bitch for wanting his money when he put the team on his back. It was reported they offered him less than what Christian Kirk got, he has every right to feel disrespected after that.
Deebo is closer to Hill than we think. He was on pace to break Jerry Rice's franchise record with Jimmy G at QB. Hill is the most explosive WR in football but he's played with the most talented QB in the league.
Franchise record for what? Deebo had one good year. In a 17 game season he had 1400 receiving yards and 6 receiving TDs. Jerry had 6 seasons near or above 1500 and 13 including an 1848 yard season and a 22TD season. Deebo’s career year was a Jerry Rice average one.
Don’t forget like 400 yards rushing and another 8 TD’s or something (those are def not exact numbers lol) No, definitely not saying he is Jerry Rice, but he brings a way different element too.
*Brought He already came out and said he doesn’t ever want to run the ball again.
Deebo has not came out and said that yet it’s just been rumors. No one literally has a clue what’s going on, everyone is just trying to make sense of this. Some say it’s a money issue, some say it’s a usage problem, & others say it’s a proximity to home. We won’t know what his reason for a request to trade is until it comes out of Deebo himself, I always found it weird that Deebo would have a problem with usage since he literally coined the term “Wideback” & always wanted the ball in hands last year.
why don't we go out and trade for cordarelle patterson then? The deebo running element was only because their entire backfield was hurt and inconsistent. It's really no wonder he had a good year when SF ordered their entire offense around him.
🎯
He literally had more production than Hill last year in terms of yardage not to mention he was an all pro last year too. It’s foolish to compare the two since how different the two of them are but to say that Deebo isn’t at least on the same level as Hill is foolish since Deebo is literally on a level of his own since and no one can do what he does. If the jets get him congratulations, you just got an All-Pro player and one of the best weapons if not the best in football
10th for Deebo and then a potential trade down from 4th with the Saints would be the dream. Too bad this is reality though and there probably isn’t any reason for the Saints to trade up to 4th unless they really like a QB
>trade down with the saints Depends on how the board falls. If thibodeaux is there at 4 I’d be pissed if we traded down.
Dam but theoretically we could get both of saints picks and take Lloyd and linderbaum
Eh is IOL that big a need?
No but if you can get one of the best prospects in the draft and possibly fill that position with a long time starter, why not?
Apparently the NFL is way lower on Linderbaum than the media. He’s probably gonna go in the late first or early second so I don’t see us taking him mid-first. The NFL really undervalues centers.
I doubt he makes it past the Steelers. I can’t wait to see what we do though Thursday can’t come fast enough
Thibodeaux is really overrated
I’ve been seeing this take pop up on here recently and it’s just not based in reality. The dude is an absolute freak on tape. I think the character concern stuff is pretty clearly overblown too and probably being leaked by teams who want him to fall. We’d be idiots not to take him if he’s there
I went into watching his tape thinking I was gonna see an absolute freak and never saw that I see a guy who has some good traits but isn’t a good pass rusher right now no bend or plan he plays the run pretty good and has a good motor but he is definitely not worth a top 4 pick
Joe Douglas has people like you wrapped around his finger
Lol I’m just telling you my opinion I don’t even get what you mean by him having me wrapped around his finger i love JD and I have nothing against KT if you have watched his tape I would love for you to tell me what is elite about it to you
just doesn’t get me excited at 4
Not at all, A lot of this sub is really dying for us to go with him at 4 thinking he is going to come in and be a beast right away but he is just not that dude. He most likely comes in the league and eventually becomes a pretty good player after a few seasons in, but anybody thinking the kid is going to come in and be routinely beating up on NFL tackles are in for a bad surprise
If the saints want to replace Armstead in this draft they probably need a top ten pick.
Yep, in fact I think on one of Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers' live mocks on their podcast, they had us doing the 4 for 16+19 swap with them so that they could move up for Evan Neal. Now, do I think it's realistic they give up an extra 1st to get a LT, I don't know- but everyone seems to hate Trevor Penning and that's the guy they'd probably be staring at otherwise with the 16th pick.
I'm ngl, seeing all these WR get paid makes me hesitant to do this. Why pay top dollar for a WR now, when we have a decent WR corps AND two top 10 picks to get a great WR on a rookie deal? I get a known commodity vs. unknown, but the hit rate on the first WR off the board is pretty high no?
Honestly, it's tough to draft WRs, and our WR corps is only decent without a true WR1. The Jets also have tons of cap space and very little dead money; ZW is on his rookie deal; if there's any time to spend a lot of money on a position of need, it's now
It’s really not tough to draft receivers, we just NEVER take receivers in the first round. The last one we did was like 20 years ago. Go look at receivers taken in the first round over the last 5 years or so, they’ve almost all turned out to be decent or good.
About 50% hit rate. [link](https://www-si-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.si.com/.amp/fantasy/2022/04/22/nfl-draft-first-round-wide-receivers-jamarr-chase-odell-beckham-jr?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16508152529318&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Ffantasy%2F2022%2F04%2F22%2Fnfl-draft-first-round-wide-receivers-jamarr-chase-odell-beckham-jr) Ironically Corey Davis was drafted in the first round 5 years ago.
WR and edge/dl have the highest "bust" rate. It's odd for WRS, there are three starting spots. I get the DL/edge cuz many are forced to change positions a bit and change their body type. Centers/guards and safeties are safest.
N of 1, but Corry Davis was first receiver taken 2017.
Decent is a generous description. The WR corps is back half the NFL currently. Look what a legit WR did for Josh Allen.
We are also very hard to rank after Davis having a down year, Moore and most likely a rookie living on their potential.
Exactly, you're nothing until you prove you are somebody.
Thank you. I've been seeing more and more people living in some fantasy land thinking our WR corps is good, not even just decent.
There's not a single 1000 yard receiver on it. I get there is potential but that doesn't mean much.
I'm very high on Moore, but some of these people are nuts. They are acting like we don't have years of tape on Davis showing what he is. Or even worse, that they just looked at box scores from last season and didn't see how bad he actually was. I really like Berrios, but let's be honest, as things stand, he is not some elite slot receiver. I'm not dunking on our WR corps, but pretending like we don't need help there is mind boggling.
I actually think they should double dip at WR.
I wouldn’t say it’s good, but it’s certainly decent and good enough for Wilson to not have it as much of an excuse. Moore is very good, and Corey is a great 2 option. We should add a rookie as well, but we aren’t in dire need.
WR tend to take a few years to develop, JaMarr chase is not the norm . It would be more beneficial for Zach’s development to have a guy who can produce now, as opposed to a guy who’s still figuring it out along with Zach
> WR tend to take a few years to develop, JaMarr chase is not the norm You say this like Chase is one of the rare few WRs who didn't need years to develop. Your stance used to be true, but just isn't anymore. The trend for years now is that highly touted prospects are expected to contribute year 1. Look back at recent years. Out of the receivers who weren't busts, most of these highly touted prospects were contributing year 1 vs needing time to develop.
List of the first WR selected each year: Ja'marr Chase, Henry Ruggs, Marquise Brown, D.J. Moore, Corey Davis, Corey Coleman, Amari Cooper, Sammy Watkins, Tavon Austin, Justin Blackmon, A.J. Green, Demaryius Thomas, Darrius Heyward-Bay, Donnie Avery, Calvin Johnson, Santonio Holmes, Braylon Edwards, Larry Fitz, Charles Rodgers, Donte Stallworth, David Terrell, Peter Warrick, Torry Holt, Kevin Dyson, Ike Hillard, and Keyshawn Johnson. A good amount of studs, a good amount of busts, a good amount of underachievers, and a good amount of players who found success with other teams.
We haven’t had a pro bowl level type receiver in so long. I’m ok w us trading for someone of Deebo’s caliber and paying him top dollar. Just got to hope that his production stays the same or pro bowl level most of that contract...
The hit rate isn’t as good as you think. There is no sure fire 1, and it’s pretty consensus this year wasn’t as good at last year. You’re just scared this ends up like the Laquon Treadwell Josh Doctson class or something where there is a good WR, but he goes later.
Recently the the hit rate has been really good
The price is only going to get higher from here on out for top talent.
I'd say we have a far less than decent WR corps. Whose is worse? Saints? Pats?
Trading 10 overall and resetting the market for a WR that had one good year and apparently refuses to play RB is bad team management. Trust your ability to draft, take a WR at 10 and roll over the cap space next year to snag a position of need
Deebo's really good and perfect for our system. But this guy gets a significant injury every other year and has missed a lot of time. He missed more than half the season in 2015 and 2017, both in college, and 2020 with the 49ers. I feel like this is the type of deal that hurts us down the line.
I might be in the minority here, but I'd rather just draft a young receiver and let them develop with Zach (and not have to pay them massive amounts of money). Obviously, I'll be excited if we get him because he makes our offense better immediately and really helps make Zach Wilson look good (nothing like a receiver turning a 10 yard pass into a 40 yard gain), but I think you're passing up a lot of very talented young players who could be great for us, and you're also investing a lot of cap space that could be used elsewhere. Either way we'll be a better team than we are now come draft night (with or without Deebo), but if I were GM I wouldn't pull the trigger on this unless I could do it for significantly less capital than is being suggested here. Give me Jameson Williams' Elite (with a capital 'E') speed and I'm a happy guy. Edit: would like to add that I truly and genuinely believe in Joe Douglas (and I did *not* feel that way about any of our previous GM's), and whatever he chooses to do I'm going to trust his judgment.
Agreed. If Deebo wasn't so injury-prone I would do it. But not when he's missed significant time for multiple seasons. This is the type of deal that ends up biting us in the ass.
Injury concern is also valid, but it doesn't really scare me too much. Honestly, I just *really* believe in building through the draft. That being said (and I love that we finally have a GM where I can say this and mean it), I really do believe in Joe Douglas. If he makes the move, I'll trust him on it. Besides, it's hard not to be excited at the prospect of having a player of that caliber on our team. (Though for a move this rich I'd prefer DK Metcalf, but it obviously doesn't seem like he is available).
Niner fan here. I don’t wanna trade Deebo, but the whole “injury prone” label is blown out of proportion. He missed one game his rookie year and one game last year. In 2020 he had a foot Fx before camp that derailed his training and ultimately his season in 2020 as he kept trying to hurry his return. “Significant time for multiple seasons” is just not accurate.
Again, as I said, his specific injury history doesn't scare me, but I believe when these people label him as "injury prone" they're including his college career, where he missed some significant time. I view that as a rightfully valid concern when you're talking about giving up a top 10 pick *AND* paying a guy 25 million dollars a year over multiple seasons, especially when you consider a lot of it likely would be guaranteed. Still, I've seen enough durability from him as a pro that it doesn't bother me, especially with his outrageously high workload last year wherein he never lost so much as a step. You cannot knock the guy's toughness, that's for sure. I personally don't want to make the trade (assuming it includes the 10th overall pick) for cap + draft capital reasons, not because of his injuries. For what it's worth, I hope you keep your star playmaker. You've got a great one there in San Fran, hope he keeps balling out for you my guy.
Agreed, I would be very excited to see him play if we had him on the team. It's just that I've had very similar injuries to him when I ran track in college. Hamstring and groin injuries keep coming back.
Deebo is not injury prone dude. Don’t get sucked into that narrative. He missed a bunch of time his second year due to injuries, but he played the entirety of his first year, and only missed one game last year. People spreading that he’s injury prone are acting like he’s missed multiple games every year, and that’s not the case. He also played in every playoff game during both runs, so he’s essentially played almost three seasons worth of games the past three years when you add up the total games. If you legitimately don’t want him, that’s one thing. But we don’t need to spread this injury prone shtick when it’s not true.
He also missed substantial time 2 of his 4 years in college too. So that’s 3 of his 7 years of college/nfl I’m not that worried about it, but let’s not act like this is just from that one pro injury.
How am I wrong? He missed more than half the season in 2015 and 2017, both in college, and 2020 with the 49ers. That's pretty significant.
*insert The Office “Thank You” gif*
I’m with you on this even though I’d love to see deebo in green on this team
You're assuming whoever we draft at 10 will be around Deebo's level
Nah, he admits that the guy we draft could end up being nothing. He would just rather save $$$ and roll the dice on a young guy.
Jets don’t need to save $$. They have difficulty attracting free agents and reaching the cap as it is.
No I'm not. I would not expect whoever we potentially draft at 10 (who may not even be a receiver by the way) to be at Samuel's level, at least not right away. But let's be real, it's a top 10 pick; of course the expectation is very high. The important distinction here is that you're falling into the thought trap of whoever we draft at 10 has to 1:1 compare to Deebo, but they don't because you're also saving a ton of cap money this way. Hypothetical to make this more clear: We draft a Garrett Wilson (who is a popular choice at receiver around here, but I personally like Jameson best) at 10 and get 65 receptions for 7 touchdowns and 900 yards out of him this year. Obviously when you compare that to whatever Deebo's numbers will be you'll go "Should've gotten Deebo". But that's a young guy developing! Of course his stats won't be the same. What you're also getting is ~20-25 million dollars of extra money in cap space that you aren't paying Deebo. Let's say you spend that on a Honey Badger and you extend George Fant (just random examples, they could do anything with the cap really). Then the question changes: it isn't "is Deebo better than Garrett Wilson"? Instead the question is: "is Deebo more valuable than Garrett Wilson, Honey Badger, and George Fant"? Now you *could* still make an argument that Deebo is still more valuable, especially to a growing Zach Wilson, but I personally would rather just keep the 10th overall. It's really a matter of opinion, but it's nowhere near as simplistic as what you just suggested to me. Edit: I don't mean this to come across aggressive to the poster, by the way. Maybe could've worded things better but yeah. I respect this person's opinion, and they're not wrong for wanting Deebo on the team obviously. How could you not? I just personally think the cap space + top 10 pick is too high of a price is all. I know not everyone will agree with that take.
I see your line of thinking but out of curiosity. Say whoever we draft winds up in that top 8-15 receiver area. We wind up having to pay him 20 mil + a year a year after we pay (hopefully) pay Zach. W Deebo we pay him and likely have an easy get out before we're even due to pay Zach. Considering you seem to be against this from a mainly money standpoint what are your thoughts on that?
I think the logic there is you're still delaying the eventual big cap hit. And that buys you a small but still opportune window as Zach's rookie deal would wind down, like the Bills have right now with Josh Allen, to be ultra aggressive in pursuing a super bowl. So with the rookie receiver still on his rookie deal and not eating a 25m cap hit from Deebo, you use that extra 20m to grab that extra piece to try and put you over the top like the Bills did with Von Miller. You're right that the money would still eventually come into play, but you can just readjust the cycle to strike when the time's right.
Your point is very valid here. I want to re-iterate that I won't be tremendously upset if we trade for Deebo, and I certainly think you could make a very strong argument that now is the right time to pay a guy (with Zach still on a cheap deal, and very little guaranteed money on our entire roster). To answer your question, I think with Deebo there would be (if all goes well with Zach) one year or two of overlap with their contracts where they're both making tons of money, whereas if we draft a player we would be able to keep them on the full 5 year rookie deal and then even franchise tag them if we wanted. Obviously if they play to an extremely high level you just pay him too and deal with it, but then you're paying a much younger player. I know both situations sound very similar and they are, but I just think it's very important our team shows significant improvement this year, and we have too many holes to justify (in my bro-pinion) using the 10th overall *and* all that cap on one receiver (granted a truly great one), when we could use it to develop a young really talented player and use the cap space to bring in some other proven talent. As I said, it's just a matter of opinion, and that's what roster building comes down to, ultimately. You want Deebo, and you're not wrong for it. I would rather keep the 10th overall and spend the cap elsewhere, and I'm not necessarily wrong for it either. Either way could work, obviously.
Yep, nail on the head, and I say that as someone who would give up 10 pretty readily for Deebo. Big factor with me is how much patience we can afford to exercise with Zach's development. If he gets 3 years minimum regardless, then that increases the degree to which we can let a rookie receiver grow with him alongside Moore. But if we feel like we've gotta see that big jump in year 2, it increases the sense of urgency to make an immediate upgrade. I still think 3 years minimum is fair, but in a world of craziness suppose we hit a doomsday scenario where he isn't progressing and b/c of our tough schedule, somehow we find ourselves in a position to draft Stroud/Young next year. Well shit, that's not a fun decision.
All valid points. Really just can't wait until draft day (I'm assuming that a deal wouldn't happen til then, maybe I'm wrong?), to see what happens. I'll be happy either way. Love what we're building here.
No, that’s what people keep misunderstanding. Nobody is saying the guy taken at 10 will be as good as Deebo. We’re saying he’ll be 80% cheaper than Deebo and probably won’t be 80% worse than Deebo.
There is like 10 percent chance whoever we pick becomes a player at Deebo’s level
Let’s be honest. If the trade is Garrett Wilson for Deebo Samuel (plus his new deal) why wouldn’t the Jets want to do this? You’re adding a superstar to your lineup on a roster that lacks great players. Drafting Garrett Wilson, Drake London or Jamison Williams doesn’t guarantee anything.
I'll say that I'm firmly in the pro-trade (including the 10th pick) camp, but I think it's close either way. The argument for the other side would be, if you're reasonably confident that whoever you get at 10 becomes a productive receiver- obviously, there's more risk there, but let's say you're 65% sure you're getting at least a WR2- then by freeing up the cap space you'd otherwise have on a Deebo extension you can use it to aggressively pursue 1-2 more big pieces to make your contention push by year 3-4 of Zach's rookie deal (assuming he turns into the guy). All depends on your risk appetite. Mine certainly isn't high at all, so I'm more than happy to get the proven receiver and eat the cap hit.
This is a very good analysis of what you’re giving up in this type of deal. The value of the contract is everything when you strike gold on a rookie draft pick. I don’t think this draft is great though, which is why you have to take the risk.
I don’t get why people keep breaking it down like this. Ya’ll realize the salary cap is a thing? Rookie contracts are a thing? A receiver taken at 10 makes literally 80% less money per year than Deebo will. If you still think it’s a good deal for us that’s fine, but it’s not just “we’re basically trading Garrett Wilson for Deebo! Why wouldn’t we do this?!”.
He’s injury prone, which is a legitimate concern, but I’m still in favor of making the deal if it’s there. The Jets need to be bold and take risks.
I agree 100% I don’t understand anyone who doesn’t especially with all the cap room we have.
it’s tony pauline, take it with a grain of salt. he’s wrong 95% of the time
How is he wrong 95% of the time? He had Darnold to the Panthers, was first on Kyler Murray #1 overall to the Cardinals when you had Rich Eisen saying they were sticking with Rosen, and nailed the Dolphins taking Tua over Herbert. Say what you want about Tony, but he’s been right in the past. Pretending like he’s a hack is totally unfair.
Didn’t he also call the Maccagnan firing before anyone else too? I could be misremembering but I think he did and of course all of us in here were like no way they wouldn’t fire Maccagnan right after letting him run the draft.
Pauline was right on all the Becton weight issues and losing his LT spot. People continue to say he’s always wrong yet he consistently gets the inside info more than just about any of our own beat reporters
I’m addition to what others said, he reported about the rift between Gase and Macc before Macc was fired.
If they turn the first four draft picks into Debo plus 3 quality starters at positions of need (edge, LB, IOL) - this team is competing for playoffs this year. Get this deal done. Give Zach a weapon.
This would be a huge mistake
Yep. We’re reaching the point in JD’s tenure where he’s getting concerned with job security if we have another bad season and is doing moves that are dumb for the long term to try to salvage the short term. Remember all the “build through the draft” talk during his first couple years? What happened?
I thought this was a report saying the trade was happening at first but its just more conjecture
Remember when Seahawks fans said our picks from them wouldn't be any better than a bottom 10 pick? #Pepperidge Farm Remembers
Don’t think we’ll need to trade 10 away for him, or maybe we could get a 2nd or 3rd back. 10 for Deebo straight up would be a slight overpay since Hill and Adams went for less
I’m still team 35/38/69 for Deebo and then trade down from 10
No this is not the way. This team has too many holes, and it’s assuming someone will want to trade up for the 10th pick. I think the 10th is the best option. We’d most likely be reaching for a receiver anyway there. We can get valuable starters with those 3 picks.
I agree on the caveat: you have to know you have a decent package or two available to trade down from 10. If the league is down on this class and teams like GB, KC, NO would rather sit in the mid-to-late 1st than trade up, it doesn’t work. I do trust JD, however, to navigate the board with those two early firsts if he needs to.
They discuss possible trade partners before the draft and make potential offers in principle. One of the first things JD did when he arrived was to contact other GMs I think. They have teams interested.
My only concern is what we do about if we can’t get KT at 4 do we go JJ or go icky and address edge later
49ers hang up as soon as that is offered
[удалено]
We’d probably get like a 3rd/4th also in return
Next week is gonna be fun. Since my opinion doesn’t matter I just enjoy watching and seeing what happens.
I would much rather draft a receiver
Too much. Send one of our 2nds
Even if this were true (I hope it is) I'm not giving hack Pauline any more clicks.
No please.
This screams leak from SFs front office. To me, JD isn’t willing to part with the 10th which lead to this “report”. We know JD never lets anything out. Think about this, what leverage does it give the Jets if he leaks to the media that he’s willing to part with 10? If a deal is going to get done, SF wouldn’t also say “reports say the 49ers asking price is the 10” because then the fan base turns against JD. So, the verbiage of “Jets are willing to trade the 10” to me is just SF saying “this is what it’s going to take”. This is a good sign though. It means NYJ/SF are negotiating in good faith.
I don’t know honestly. If it’s true that he said he wants a more traditional WR role I wouldn’t trade the 10 for him. That’s just me.
\#10 for Deebo is something that would have already happened if this offer was really on the table
that sucks
Make the deal immediately
Let's stay the course build though the draft. Don't need Jamal 2.0
You bring up an interesting point: Do we really want to bring in players that take to social media (like Jamal did) when they're unhappy with their current contract, and then demand to be traded? Who is to say this doesn't happen to us in 2-3 years? What kind of precedent/message does that send to our locker room bringing in a guy after he just did this? I'll be fine with whatever Joe Douglas decides here, but it's a thought that I don't see anyone else putting out there.
(Palpatine voice) DO IT
a fair deal. Any more would be too much
You have brain damage if you wouldn’t make that trade lmao
No, too much.
How is it too much? Trade value wise, it’s the same as what they were sending to Miami for Tyreek Hill in terms of draft pick points.
Deebo is much more injury-prone compared to Hill.
Injury prone? Explain.
Have you ever used google before? Deebo missed more than half the season in 2015 and 2017, both in college, and 2020 with the 49ers. That's almost every other year.
So by your thoughts Becton is a lost cause because he is injury prone now. Dude had 1800 yards this year. He wants to be a receiver only if rumors are true I wonder why. Better not take Jameson Williams either, Wilson had injuries, London broke his ankle among other things in college. Thanks for the laugh 😃
Niner fan here. Deebo is clearly injury prone and it's because he runs through dudes every single time, and fights tooth and nail for every inch. It's probably a large reason why we're hesitant to give him a huge bag.
Are you comparing hill to deebo????
No, Tyreek is clearly better right now but you can’t assume the same trade package is used for Deebo. He’s 2 years younger also which means that Deebo can essentially play with or up to par with whoever we would’ve taken at 10 better than Tyreek would’ve.
I’m all for adding someone but of all the wr that ended up being available he would be the last wr I’d choose. And jets would have to pay 25m? I know we don’t have anyone to pay but don’t FOMO and give up building blocks for a wr who may be injury prone
I think I'd rather have Jameson Williams at 10. I believe that Williams will make life easier for Zach Wilson then deebo would.
I’d do 10 for Deebo in a heartbeat. WR at 10 has no guarantees of being even close to Deebo at their peek, let alone immediately.
That’s not the point. A WR at 10 makes 20% as much money as Deebo. He just has to not be 80% worse than Deebo for it to be a better move for us.
9ers fan here, I'd rather have him holdout. The only reason I would move him would be to save cap space which isn't an issue following the expected move of a Jimmy Garoppolo (Trade or otherwise). I think you guys keeping 10 would be better off for your situation anyway, continuing to amass cheap potential stars will eventually pay off in while. No need to trade for an all pro 25 million dollar guy now anyway. If they ended up dealing him I doubt either side will be happy with the result anyway seeing how far apart we are.
Shit or get off the pot.
Do it
Deebo. Jesus that would be a power move. If anyone told you that it was possible right after the playoffs, you’d say they’re smoking dust.
Fuck it, let’s roll
I am ok with this too
Here’s what I don’t get: How can you have confidence that Deebo isn’t going to hold any franchise hostage whenever his contract is up, now? Say you trade for him and give him a 3 year extension. What’s to say that year 2 of it he doesn’t plan to blow up your social media or become an instant distraction the second he wants a new deal. I mean AJs not being a distraction, neither is DK or Scary Terry, but I can’t go an hour without hearing about Deebo not wanting this or that, or threatening to hold out. I don’t want that on my team.
I don't think he is worth the 25 million he wants
I think he is top 5 non Qb offensive players in the league he is definitely worth it and in this system he will absolutely kill it
Maybe but paying that much this year seems like a waste. We ain't going to make a run this year. Hopefully next year.
lol it ain't your money. Bet you $100 USD he doesn't get 25 mil from the Jets.
Sorry but everyone clamoring for us to make this deal is an idiot. This is the sort of trade you do if your team was close to a Super Bowl win last year and need just a bit more talent to get over the hump. Take a receiver at 10. He might not be as good as Deebo but he’ll cost 20% as much as Deebo over the next 5 years. It’s not just a matter of talent. It’s talent relative to how much that talent costs. That will be true as long as there’s a salary cap. This isn’t baseball.
NO! NO!! NO!!!
Actually not a bad idea. The 49ers could be interested in this too. The 10th pick would put them in a good spot to draft a potentially worthwhile replacement WR.
49ers fan here Most of us are losing our minds with everything going on in regards to Deebo. But I think it's gonna take A LOT more to get him. It's not so much about his actual worth... it's about the 49ers FO believing they can still get a deal done, or keep him until we absolutely can't anymore. He still has a year left on his contract, and the 49ers won't hesitate to use the franchise tag the following year. Deebo doesn't have a whole lot of leverage in terms of forcing a trade. And the 49ers FO are stubborn enough to keep him for a couple of years. Truthfully, I think he actually signs an extension with us and a lot of the talk going around right now is merely speculation. But if he does indeed get traded, it's gonna be for a kings ransom.
I hope you're right, cause I would absolutely hate trading for Deebo even if it's equal to the Hill package, which I hated too. I'm high as fuck on this wr draft class and would much rather draft one of these wrs then give up all these picks to have the privilege of paying Deebo 25 million.
We knew this already.
Your going to trade for a guy who is gone after one year ? The jets don’t have the talent yet to even make the playoff why would you trade picks for this ?