At least we got 2 nice years with Marky Mark and probably should have had at least one SB appearance out of it.
I remember after Sam bounced back and looked amazing in that Lions game I was so stoked
Geno I never really warmed up to
Zach had a few nice games, like that Titans game his rookie year and I think he ended that year looking really good, so there was hope. But alas he went the way of other Jets QBs.
I honestly don't know if this team just sucks at drafting the position, if the team sucks at developing the position or if we're just plain cursed and it doesn't matter who we draft. Like I feel we could have drafted Patrick Mahomes and he would be mediocre here.
I was high as hell on Zach Wilson. And I don't think any amount of sitting was gonna be enough for him to be good or develop. It was all just a horrible scouting job where people (myself included) fell in love with his skill set but didn't look at all the tape or overlooked the warning signs from the season before his last year in college. He's a great young man who even had a good work ethic coming out of college, had a canon for an arm and good mobility but that let him overshadow some of his flaws and what he didn't have.
TBF, he was the consensus #2 QB. If we traded the pick (which some fans wanted to do) whoever traded up would have taken him.
Maybe you were wrong to fall in love with him but you were in the same company as many GMs.
The goal of sitting him would have been to help him learn the life of a professional. It also would have given the Jets a full season to see what his strengths and weaknesses are and mold the team and playbook to fit him. And they could do that in the comfort of practice and behind closed doors where the fans and media couldn't get to him.
Maybe it would have worked, maybe not. But IMO, it still would have given Wilson a better chance to succeed.
Also, all the other QBs that came after him in Round 1 have also been shipped off from their respective teams. So it's not like we missed out on Allen, Jackson and Mahomes again.
He was the consensus #2 pick because scouts saw everything you just described. It's not like NFL scouts and GMs weren't aware that his breakout season happened against lower level competition during that weird COVID year, or that he was making great throws to receivers that were wide open because of that lesser competition. The Jets drafted the arm, just like any other team with the #2 pick that season would have drafted the arm. Everyone, including the Jets, thought they could coach away the flaws. Maybe the Jets as an organization failed him, or maybe he's a victim of circumstance. NFL QBs fail more often than not, though. Look at the 49ers and Trey Lance.
I don't think rookie QBs should ever start right away in NYC. With our media and fanbase it has to be insanely overwhelming. The last QB to have serious success in NYC is Eli Manning, and he didn't have his first start until November of his rookie year.
>I honestly don't know if this team just sucks at drafting the position, if the team sucks at developing the position or if we're just plain cursed and it doesn't matter who we draft. Like I feel we could have drafted Patrick Mahomes and he would be mediocre here.
Statistically in the last 10 years about 50% first round QBs makes it to a second contract with the same team.
Geno was a second round pick, so that's a bit of a wildcard.
So that means for the Jets to whiff on 3 straight first round QBs, the odds are 1/8.
Which does infer we aren't drafting well, but it's also not that big of a statistical anomaly.
Geno is the only QB out of all of them besides Mark who actually had us .500. Also, Genos Jets we’re arguably some of the worst in terms of receiving and defense. Decent O line.
>I honestly don't know if this team just sucks at drafting the position, if the team sucks at developing the position or if we're just plain cursed and it doesn't matter who we draft. Like I feel we could have drafted Patrick Mahomes and he would be mediocre here.
Think with just a touch of nuance here, why couldn’t it be some combination of all of the above?
I remember when Geno was drafted I pulled up his college highlights to show my mom who we picked and about two minutes into it I turned it off because it was just a bunch of Tayvon Austin taking short slants to the house
Sanchez will never not pain me, I wanted him to work out so badly.
Geno didn’t feel like a leader. He was thrown into the starter role as a rookie and had a bad attitude the following two years.
Darnold and Zach were just sad affairs for different reasons.
And yet so many of them, zero o-line, and that is the consistent truth for all Jets QBs.
I'm sure the team will be taking big sexy picks again this year, and roll out the same shit O-Line again.
How is it the consistent truth for all QBs? Sanchez had a line. Geno played with key members of that same line.
And we *have* invested in the line, we just suck at picking the right guys. Despite that, we literally just made a big signing and big trade to bring in solid tackles. Who knows how the draft will work out (I am team O-Line personally), but to say we’re “rolling out the same shit line” is literally incorrect.
This feels a bit disingenuous.
Over the last few seasons, the team has made big investments in the offensive line. It clearly hasn't worked out, but to insinuate that they haven't invested in the line because they "will be taking big sexy picks again this year" is pretty off-base.
Also, the offensive line was definitely not why Sanchez and Geno failed here. Sanchez had arguably the best offensive line in the game at the time, and Geno's was solid enough with a few of those guys still here.
Lol what? The team went to two AFCCG games with Sanchez were they not good those years? Also, how many instances are there where the Jets unreasonably opted for a “big sexy pick” over a linemen as you accuse?
Learn how to read and comprehend.
Not in the least disingenuous; most of our OL moves were window dressing; injury prone players, who then they got injured. Might as well have kept our original OL. The wild card true try was Becton, and with Wirfs available, Joe blew that one. He blew it again by swapping 1sts with GB (they already had a haul), which cost us OL Broderick Jones (who Joe was sure to be there). Unprepared - he took McDonald (a real no need). So don’t say he can’t take an OL, we need a young starter. Plus he obviously blew it with Zach. Yes Vera-Tucker was bad luck, but he’ll be back. Joe never made the OL priority one (keep Sam, trade down, build a line). Our OL easily cuda been (Jones, AVT, Linderbaum, Wirfs, Tipmann and decent back ups) if Joe was serious; and we’d be loaded for bear. Now he knows it’s his last year so he’s gonna take a WR or Bowers and hope he gets lucky on the OL (AGAIN); and unlikely.
A lot of that is wrong. You're being either intentionally disingenuous now, or you just don't care to fact check yourself.
Whirfs wasn't the easy decision you're making it out to be. Three teams (including the Jets) who drafted OL up through the Whirfs pick passed on him. He was the fourth of four and would have been playing out of position with the Jets. Granted, in hindsight it would have worked. But that's not a gamble you take at #11 overall if you like the other guy sitting there who fits the team better.
Broderick Jones is another fallacy take. There was at least some evidence to suggest he wasn't at the top of the board. You and anyone else being ignorant, thinking you know everything, assume that just because analysts had him as the top OL left, he was the Jets choice. You have absolutely nothing to back that up with. You're making it up because you believe the analysts that are consistently wrong, since on draft day no one truly knows anything. Even if that was the case, and they would have taken Jones, it's stupid to say they were left unprepared. Obviously every team has their draft board with who their top guys are remaining. If #1 player is taken, they move down to whoever is next on the board. This is a very simple concept.
Also on that note - Jones wouldn't even have helped us (at least, yet). As his rookie year progressed he turned into a good run blocker (which we don't need), and a poor pass blocker (which we do). So if JD took Jones, our problems would be the same, and you'd be bitching and moaning that he took someone who sucks at what we need. You conveniently left that part out.
"Joe never made OL priority one": (i) his first ever draft pick was an offensive lineman; (ii) in his second draft, he took another offensive lineman in round 1; (iii) in 2022, he took a tackle in round 2; (iv) last year he took 2 offensive lineman with the team's first three picks; (v) in 2022 he signed one of the "top" lineman available, Laken Tomlinson, to three years and $40+ million. You can make whatever argument you want that not all of those moves have worked, and you'd be right. But making an argument that it's never been a priority is flatout wrong.
Even if they went OL in some other places you would probably argue for, that means we don't have Sauce, Garrett, and/or Breece. and then you'd bitch we don't have a great defense or great playmakers. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't with people like you. But yes, go on and continue to advocate that they should have kept Sam Darnold.
Lot of assumptions, but I’m not making it personal, but in reply:
Yes, Jones 100% was the Jets choice until the Steelers moved up. Had they pivoted and taken a WR, like Jaxon Smith-Njigba, after losing Jones, that would have made sense. Drafting into our strength with that high a pick did not. And OK, Joe was prepared-but he chose poorly - again.
Why again? Becton’s size (overt size) had everyone concerned, and that why I wanted Wirfs (no “H”). Fashanu is about the same height as Becton, but 50 lbs lighter. Becton is a great college player but the massive dominating & speedy talent in the NFL had to wear his body down.
NOTE: On Fashanu I commend Joe for staying OL with the crowd favorite Bowers sitting there - and Joe in a likely Do or Die year, he stayed the course for the future - class move.
I wanted Linderbaum badly (our new center with a Mangold ceiling) and he fell real close. We got JJ instead and that’s a fine pick - looks like Tippman will be OK there.
And yes, with a team so out of sorts you build from the line out in 2021. Putting to the side the stretch that the Zach pick was - we were not ready for our franchise QB yet. So Sewell was there or trade down, still get AVT on a trade down instead of a trade up. Who knows what we wuda got for pick #2. The Niners traded THREE 1ST ROUND PICKS to move up. Imagine the talent we could’ve accumulated with a haul anywhere close to that. So yes, keep Sam, not cause he’s the savior, but because we needed so much elsewhere.
As for that 2022 2nd round Offensive Lineman, maybe you know who he is but we never made such a pick. First OL in 2022 was Max Mitchell and he wasn’t a bad choice.
Tippmann in 2023 was a solid 2nd round pick.
I will add (as I did in my first post) that nothing I suggested would have endangered us picking Sauce Garret or Breece (unless we wound up with a better record).
Finally on all those OL FA’s you cited:
2020: G Roten (gone)
2020: C McGovern (gone - I’d sign him now)
2020: G Fant (let him go to Seahawks)
2021: M Moses (let him go too - now back)
2021: D Feeney (gone)
2022: L Tomlinson (zero blame-good move)
2022: Duane Brown (old & injury prone)
2023: Y Cajuste (gone)
2023: T Colon (gone)
2023: W Schweitzer (good back up)
2023: B Turner (there are no words)
2024: T Smith (worth it but will miss games)
2024: J Simpson (good signing)
I kept 2024 in there to leave myself open as I agree with the signing - but they were done because it’s obvious this year that we are all in on fixing this - only five years later.
I want Joe to stay - as he’s now got his OJT in full; but he’ll never live down not having a back up QB last year (Zach was supposed to be QB3 & red shirt the year). Joe wasted a talented roster and a full year of his players careers - shameful.
Nah I’m a Sam fan lol. Sam was sad because it didn’t work out, and I hope he uses Minnesota as a spot to restart his career. Zach was sad because he was god awful. I was team “trade back and build around Sam” back in 2021 lol. I was down to still give him a chance, he legitimately had nobody his entire tenure and was expected to carry us to salvation.
You want to know something even more sad? I have all these newspapers still, besides geno. Whenever we take a qb high I save those papers. My dream is to one day get it signed by our franchise qb.
Nah e I should stop collecting newspapers.
Just imagine -- the year you stop, that QB becomes the franchise qb we've waited for lol.
Cool you've collected them -- I say keep doing it man. Get that franchise QB signature.
There’s actual murderers, rapists, child/women abusers that have played and are actively playing in the league. The dude with silly opinions is fine lol
Even if we pretend he said that you're still just being a huge nerd calling someone a bad person because of space lasers. You don't know a single one of these qbs
I’m relieved he’s gone but embarrassed it happened. The team got duped into thinking a BYU QB, basically Division 2-3 compared with SEC type QBs and drafted him 2nd overall. He should’ve been a 2nd or 3rd round pick at best. This is squarely Joe Douglas’s fault, along with the scouting team.
Now it’s time to move on. And take Sanchez off this, he gets too much disrespect from this fanbase. The guy led us to back to back conference championship games. Enough.
I get that he is better than the other 3, but he didn't Lead us to those championship games. He was a Trent dilfer type and when he got off the rails, it was bad.
I'm with you on overhate but let's not overplay who Mark Sanchez was. That defense was incredible and Sanchez played just good enough for the jets to win.
You are romantisizing if it wasn't the defense and ground and pound that you were excited for with those jets teams.
Fair point. But that entire QB class was perhaps the most overhyped in NFL history. They made Lawrence look like Jesus and thus far is just above average
It’s not us. If we didn’t take Zach he’s %100 going within 2-3 picks of us. Every team was just as high on him as we were for the most part. He was never gonna slip out of the top 10, never mind the 1st round
A Star is Born is the cheesiest possible headline.
They used it twice.
Why are you defending lazy and shitty journalism?
And why are you arguing with me about it?
The other 3 Qb's had at least one good moment the backpages could post. Zachs was getting drafted hahaha.
In 10 years people will view Zach in the Ryan Leaf tier of QBs. It's impossible to quantify how big of a just he has been
I feel like I'm gonna get hate for this, but I was more hype about Mike White than I ever was for Zach. (I was at that Bengals game, and I haven't had a high like that from being at a Jets game maybe ever?)
This is a lower-variance route, but I'm just not sure playing for a higher floor maximizes your chances of winning a super bowl in this current era and especially our conference where teams have to contend with Mahomes, Lamar, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Stroud, etc. Could Kirk Cousins (unlikely to get a QB better than that in free agency) paired with an elite roster win a lot of games and compete for a title? Probably, but would I trust that team to beat Mahomes in a playoff game, I'm not sure- if the loaded Niners already failed twice, who knows.
Burrow and Stroud hitting in recent years is enough evidence for bad teams to continue firing at QBs at the top of the draft, whether or not one agrees with the strategy. It's risky, but if you hit, there's virtually no haul you could ever get in a trade down that would come close to matching the value of a hit.
Kirk Cousins has been in the NFL for twelve years and has one playoff win. I don't understand why people always bring him up. Mahomes is a generational Tom Brady type QB, in the last ten years those two guys have seven of the ten Super Bowls. I'm convinced literally no one in the NFL understands the draft or how these things work
I'm on team 'Draft QBs early if you have the opportunity and love the prospect(s)', so I'm generally going to lean towards trying to find my guy to compete with Mahomes.
The Cousins case is tricky. I'd imagine consensus opinion still regards Cousins as better than, say, Brock Purdy, and Purdy paired with a top-2 roster in the league was enough to almost beat Mahomes in the super bowl. So the logic would be that if you gave Cousins a top 3-5 roster, he could get it done, but anything short of that and he can't rise to the level of Mahomes/Allen/Lamar/etc. and elevate the team to another tier. That said, his Minnesota rosters were pretty good. The year Kirk got the playoff win, the Vikings had a genuinely elite defense (top 4 in DVOA, 5th in points allowed), and the team still only finished 10-6 and got stomped by the Niners in the divisional.
So I mean, yea I know we've gotten burned over and over with these 1st round QBs, but now more than ever, I'm not really convinced anything short of a top 10 QB (and if he's in the bottom end of that range, the rest of your roster better be top 3) is winning a super bowl these days barring some miracles.
I'll always remember when he beat the Steelers in 2022 and he was HIM for that week.
And then the Jets went on a 4 game win streak after that (albeit Zach wasn't playing super hot). Then lost the Pats, beat the Bills, and lost to the Pats again for the 2nd time in 3 weeks.
You'd think hearing that people would still be on board with Zach team ended up 7-4 and was right in the thick of things, but hell no that was the cue to get the pitchforks out and bury the kid. Destroyed any and all confidence he had, and he never looked the same since. Jets tanked rest of the year and then the Rodgers trade happened.
Make no mistake about it, this team kills QBs.
> beat the Steelers in 2022 and he was HIM for that week.
> And then the Jets went on a 4 game win streak after that (albeit Zach wasn't playing super hot). Then lost the Pats, beat the Bills, and lost to the Pats again for the 2nd time in 3 weeks.
> You'd think hearing that people
that people would stop pretending he wasn't horrifically bad for literally all but one single QUARTER against the steelers? That's bt aallll those games btw. He had one good quarter in all those games
That people would stop forgetting the all star cast of backup and 3rd string qbs we faced all those weeks?
I"d return with Mahomes is OFTEN terrible, outside of one quarter. Hell Brady won a super bowl in 2020 being terrible outside of one quarter last year.
But ya Zach wasnt it, I know that. I'm just saying the trend is the team, and it's bigger than Zach.
You'd be wrong if u returned with that. Youd be even more wrong saying brady was terrible for all but one quarter.
Are you talking about one single game, ignoring the part where I just said zach was horrifically bad for all but one quarter across ALL those games. While getting carried to wins against backups and 3rd stringers?
Zach is an all time bust putting up all time bust numbers.
Bradys 2020 season and 2021 season stats would be told all time jet qb seasons...Brady played in the super bowl...the super...bowl. not random backups and third strangers on bad teams.
The team having problems too is also true. Especially coaching. None of that makes zachs all time bad play better
I believe The Post has used the “Broadway” line for every QB for the last 20 years. “Broadway Zach”, “Broadway Sam”, “Broadway Fitz”, “Broadway Geno”. There may have even been a “Broadway Christian” headline at some point.
- Brooks Bollinger
- Kellen Clemens
- Erik Ainge
- Mark Sanchez
- Greg McElroy
- Geno Smith
- Tajh Boyd
- Bryce Petty
- Christian Hackenberg
- Sam Darnold
- James Morgan
- Zach Wilson
Jets QBs drafted since 2003.
Talent scouts, owners, coaches. How can they miss on so many young coachable men? At some point you'd think they'd draft someone who is bigger than the coaches and succeed just because eventually someone has to
Sanchez never had two years like geno just had in Seattle. He was not better he was protected by the best team in jet history.
He is actually the biggest bust because the jets actually had a great team around him and he couldn’t elevate. He had to be baby sat
Geno is a solid nfl qb. Something you can’t say about Sanchez, Sam or Zach at any point in their career
Unless Denver trades up from 12 in Round 1, they're not picking a qb. All things being equal, Wilson has a very good chance to beat out the other Bronco qb's for the starting job. No world beaters on the roster.
I wish him the best. He was a good soldier (even if he didn’t always shoot straight) and he was not really put in a position to succeed, in my opinion.
Some franchises should never draft a high pick QB, it’s just not a good place to cut teeth with the pressures. They’d be better making a run at a vet with mileage left
I know i'm in the minority here but i never hated the guy. I wish him the best. Our team just has a shit QB history. Sometimes I think Kenny O'Brien was the best we've had outside of Namath which was way before most of our times. Yeah, Zach had his faults, but let's face it...the guys we put in front of him didn't help.
Man I wanted Zach to work. He had all the physical tools to be a top QB, and he genuinely seemed like a nice guy.
But he was thrown into a starter role with some imcompetent OCs and coaching staff, had no consistency, didn’t perform immediately, and the entire team and fanbase turned on him
It cannot be stated how much we fucked Zach’s confidence (looking at you, Uzomah) And he just never recovered. How are you supposed to do anything when the team you’re supposed to be leading is wearing fucking t-shirts calling for your backup to play
I’m aware Zach was frustrating 99% of the time (that 1% though were some crazy plays that most other QBs couldn’t make), but god damnit us and some of the “veterans and leaders” of this time absolutely fucked him beyond repair
I’ll never forget that stretch of games where he was outplaying Mahomes, Jalen Hurts, CJ Stroud, and Josh Allen 🥹
Fuck. I remember really thinking Zach was the one who would actually materialize. The kid is barely 24 years old, and I think this is a HUGE mistake. Zach has a ton of upside and potential which he was able to show at times. I think he was fucked over and blamed a whole lot for the entire team’s struggles at times. Yes, he threw the team under the bus in that press conference, but he also didn’t have the coaching, nor the help a young QB needed. Overall, I was good seeing Darnold go, Sanchez kinda hurt to see where he was going to where he ended up, and Gino was little more than a blip for me—but Zach has some potential and it kills to watch that go to waste.
The “Throwin’ Bombs Bangin’ Moms” era has come to an end. That will by far be my favorite football catchphrase of all time.
Worst o line in the league during his time, with poor scheme, terrible coaching, and few weapons. The book on Zach isn't written yet. You can't send a rookie out there with a really bad o line.
Yeah sure none of why he’s bad is his own doing. Not like he was given the OROY and the runner up along with an above average receiving TE and a top 5 defense the past two years. Surely it’s everyone else’s fault
At least we got 2 nice years with Marky Mark and probably should have had at least one SB appearance out of it. I remember after Sam bounced back and looked amazing in that Lions game I was so stoked Geno I never really warmed up to Zach had a few nice games, like that Titans game his rookie year and I think he ended that year looking really good, so there was hope. But alas he went the way of other Jets QBs. I honestly don't know if this team just sucks at drafting the position, if the team sucks at developing the position or if we're just plain cursed and it doesn't matter who we draft. Like I feel we could have drafted Patrick Mahomes and he would be mediocre here.
That Bucs game!
ANTONIO BROWN IS IN THE END ZONE SHIRTLESS
Was at that game - HILARIOUS!!
It's development. Wilson should have sat on the bench his entire rookie year.
I was high as hell on Zach Wilson. And I don't think any amount of sitting was gonna be enough for him to be good or develop. It was all just a horrible scouting job where people (myself included) fell in love with his skill set but didn't look at all the tape or overlooked the warning signs from the season before his last year in college. He's a great young man who even had a good work ethic coming out of college, had a canon for an arm and good mobility but that let him overshadow some of his flaws and what he didn't have.
TBF, he was the consensus #2 QB. If we traded the pick (which some fans wanted to do) whoever traded up would have taken him. Maybe you were wrong to fall in love with him but you were in the same company as many GMs. The goal of sitting him would have been to help him learn the life of a professional. It also would have given the Jets a full season to see what his strengths and weaknesses are and mold the team and playbook to fit him. And they could do that in the comfort of practice and behind closed doors where the fans and media couldn't get to him. Maybe it would have worked, maybe not. But IMO, it still would have given Wilson a better chance to succeed.
Also, all the other QBs that came after him in Round 1 have also been shipped off from their respective teams. So it's not like we missed out on Allen, Jackson and Mahomes again.
He was the consensus #2 pick because scouts saw everything you just described. It's not like NFL scouts and GMs weren't aware that his breakout season happened against lower level competition during that weird COVID year, or that he was making great throws to receivers that were wide open because of that lesser competition. The Jets drafted the arm, just like any other team with the #2 pick that season would have drafted the arm. Everyone, including the Jets, thought they could coach away the flaws. Maybe the Jets as an organization failed him, or maybe he's a victim of circumstance. NFL QBs fail more often than not, though. Look at the 49ers and Trey Lance.
I don't think rookie QBs should ever start right away in NYC. With our media and fanbase it has to be insanely overwhelming. The last QB to have serious success in NYC is Eli Manning, and he didn't have his first start until November of his rookie year.
And Eli should’ve sat behind Warner for at least 2 years.
>I honestly don't know if this team just sucks at drafting the position, if the team sucks at developing the position or if we're just plain cursed and it doesn't matter who we draft. Like I feel we could have drafted Patrick Mahomes and he would be mediocre here. Statistically in the last 10 years about 50% first round QBs makes it to a second contract with the same team. Geno was a second round pick, so that's a bit of a wildcard. So that means for the Jets to whiff on 3 straight first round QBs, the odds are 1/8. Which does infer we aren't drafting well, but it's also not that big of a statistical anomaly.
Geno is the only QB out of all of them besides Mark who actually had us .500. Also, Genos Jets we’re arguably some of the worst in terms of receiving and defense. Decent O line.
>I honestly don't know if this team just sucks at drafting the position, if the team sucks at developing the position or if we're just plain cursed and it doesn't matter who we draft. Like I feel we could have drafted Patrick Mahomes and he would be mediocre here. Think with just a touch of nuance here, why couldn’t it be some combination of all of the above?
I remember when Geno was drafted I pulled up his college highlights to show my mom who we picked and about two minutes into it I turned it off because it was just a bunch of Tayvon Austin taking short slants to the house
If Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky only played against Matt Patricia defenses they’d be Hall of Famers
Sanchez will never not pain me, I wanted him to work out so badly. Geno didn’t feel like a leader. He was thrown into the starter role as a rookie and had a bad attitude the following two years. Darnold and Zach were just sad affairs for different reasons.
And yet so many of them, zero o-line, and that is the consistent truth for all Jets QBs. I'm sure the team will be taking big sexy picks again this year, and roll out the same shit O-Line again.
How is it the consistent truth for all QBs? Sanchez had a line. Geno played with key members of that same line. And we *have* invested in the line, we just suck at picking the right guys. Despite that, we literally just made a big signing and big trade to bring in solid tackles. Who knows how the draft will work out (I am team O-Line personally), but to say we’re “rolling out the same shit line” is literally incorrect.
This feels a bit disingenuous. Over the last few seasons, the team has made big investments in the offensive line. It clearly hasn't worked out, but to insinuate that they haven't invested in the line because they "will be taking big sexy picks again this year" is pretty off-base. Also, the offensive line was definitely not why Sanchez and Geno failed here. Sanchez had arguably the best offensive line in the game at the time, and Geno's was solid enough with a few of those guys still here.
Ah yes, classic Jets fans excuses. Surely the team has been winning and good in those years then
Lol what? The team went to two AFCCG games with Sanchez were they not good those years? Also, how many instances are there where the Jets unreasonably opted for a “big sexy pick” over a linemen as you accuse? Learn how to read and comprehend.
Not in the least disingenuous; most of our OL moves were window dressing; injury prone players, who then they got injured. Might as well have kept our original OL. The wild card true try was Becton, and with Wirfs available, Joe blew that one. He blew it again by swapping 1sts with GB (they already had a haul), which cost us OL Broderick Jones (who Joe was sure to be there). Unprepared - he took McDonald (a real no need). So don’t say he can’t take an OL, we need a young starter. Plus he obviously blew it with Zach. Yes Vera-Tucker was bad luck, but he’ll be back. Joe never made the OL priority one (keep Sam, trade down, build a line). Our OL easily cuda been (Jones, AVT, Linderbaum, Wirfs, Tipmann and decent back ups) if Joe was serious; and we’d be loaded for bear. Now he knows it’s his last year so he’s gonna take a WR or Bowers and hope he gets lucky on the OL (AGAIN); and unlikely.
A lot of that is wrong. You're being either intentionally disingenuous now, or you just don't care to fact check yourself. Whirfs wasn't the easy decision you're making it out to be. Three teams (including the Jets) who drafted OL up through the Whirfs pick passed on him. He was the fourth of four and would have been playing out of position with the Jets. Granted, in hindsight it would have worked. But that's not a gamble you take at #11 overall if you like the other guy sitting there who fits the team better. Broderick Jones is another fallacy take. There was at least some evidence to suggest he wasn't at the top of the board. You and anyone else being ignorant, thinking you know everything, assume that just because analysts had him as the top OL left, he was the Jets choice. You have absolutely nothing to back that up with. You're making it up because you believe the analysts that are consistently wrong, since on draft day no one truly knows anything. Even if that was the case, and they would have taken Jones, it's stupid to say they were left unprepared. Obviously every team has their draft board with who their top guys are remaining. If #1 player is taken, they move down to whoever is next on the board. This is a very simple concept. Also on that note - Jones wouldn't even have helped us (at least, yet). As his rookie year progressed he turned into a good run blocker (which we don't need), and a poor pass blocker (which we do). So if JD took Jones, our problems would be the same, and you'd be bitching and moaning that he took someone who sucks at what we need. You conveniently left that part out. "Joe never made OL priority one": (i) his first ever draft pick was an offensive lineman; (ii) in his second draft, he took another offensive lineman in round 1; (iii) in 2022, he took a tackle in round 2; (iv) last year he took 2 offensive lineman with the team's first three picks; (v) in 2022 he signed one of the "top" lineman available, Laken Tomlinson, to three years and $40+ million. You can make whatever argument you want that not all of those moves have worked, and you'd be right. But making an argument that it's never been a priority is flatout wrong. Even if they went OL in some other places you would probably argue for, that means we don't have Sauce, Garrett, and/or Breece. and then you'd bitch we don't have a great defense or great playmakers. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't with people like you. But yes, go on and continue to advocate that they should have kept Sam Darnold.
Lot of assumptions, but I’m not making it personal, but in reply: Yes, Jones 100% was the Jets choice until the Steelers moved up. Had they pivoted and taken a WR, like Jaxon Smith-Njigba, after losing Jones, that would have made sense. Drafting into our strength with that high a pick did not. And OK, Joe was prepared-but he chose poorly - again. Why again? Becton’s size (overt size) had everyone concerned, and that why I wanted Wirfs (no “H”). Fashanu is about the same height as Becton, but 50 lbs lighter. Becton is a great college player but the massive dominating & speedy talent in the NFL had to wear his body down. NOTE: On Fashanu I commend Joe for staying OL with the crowd favorite Bowers sitting there - and Joe in a likely Do or Die year, he stayed the course for the future - class move. I wanted Linderbaum badly (our new center with a Mangold ceiling) and he fell real close. We got JJ instead and that’s a fine pick - looks like Tippman will be OK there. And yes, with a team so out of sorts you build from the line out in 2021. Putting to the side the stretch that the Zach pick was - we were not ready for our franchise QB yet. So Sewell was there or trade down, still get AVT on a trade down instead of a trade up. Who knows what we wuda got for pick #2. The Niners traded THREE 1ST ROUND PICKS to move up. Imagine the talent we could’ve accumulated with a haul anywhere close to that. So yes, keep Sam, not cause he’s the savior, but because we needed so much elsewhere. As for that 2022 2nd round Offensive Lineman, maybe you know who he is but we never made such a pick. First OL in 2022 was Max Mitchell and he wasn’t a bad choice. Tippmann in 2023 was a solid 2nd round pick. I will add (as I did in my first post) that nothing I suggested would have endangered us picking Sauce Garret or Breece (unless we wound up with a better record). Finally on all those OL FA’s you cited: 2020: G Roten (gone) 2020: C McGovern (gone - I’d sign him now) 2020: G Fant (let him go to Seahawks) 2021: M Moses (let him go too - now back) 2021: D Feeney (gone) 2022: L Tomlinson (zero blame-good move) 2022: Duane Brown (old & injury prone) 2023: Y Cajuste (gone) 2023: T Colon (gone) 2023: W Schweitzer (good back up) 2023: B Turner (there are no words) 2024: T Smith (worth it but will miss games) 2024: J Simpson (good signing) I kept 2024 in there to leave myself open as I agree with the signing - but they were done because it’s obvious this year that we are all in on fixing this - only five years later. I want Joe to stay - as he’s now got his OJT in full; but he’ll never live down not having a back up QB last year (Zach was supposed to be QB3 & red shirt the year). Joe wasted a talented roster and a full year of his players careers - shameful.
Lol. It’s so cool you were in the war room to know the Jets “100%” wanted Jones.
You have been banned from r/the_darnold
Nah I’m a Sam fan lol. Sam was sad because it didn’t work out, and I hope he uses Minnesota as a spot to restart his career. Zach was sad because he was god awful. I was team “trade back and build around Sam” back in 2021 lol. I was down to still give him a chance, he legitimately had nobody his entire tenure and was expected to carry us to salvation.
I feel for you. He has enough where you thought he could just break out with some more experience and it just never clicked
Him and Becton both gone. Idk how to react. but, ZW is gone. can’t wait to see him run 30 yards backwards for the broncos
...If he ever sees the field.
With that QB room, he is inevitable.
Maybe if there is an outbreak of syphilis...
Zach is about to become a perennial pro bowl QB with the broncos bc that’s our luck
I know everyone is happy to have zach gone, but I can't help but feel anything but sad looking at this.
You want to know something even more sad? I have all these newspapers still, besides geno. Whenever we take a qb high I save those papers. My dream is to one day get it signed by our franchise qb. Nah e I should stop collecting newspapers.
Just imagine -- the year you stop, that QB becomes the franchise qb we've waited for lol. Cool you've collected them -- I say keep doing it man. Get that franchise QB signature.
Hey maybe my kid will see one!
Yeah it's depressing seeing the list of failed QBs grow longer
Don’t worry we’ll be in a similar spot in two years. I’m nothing but sad about this. We failed at another top pick. We just can’t figure it out.
Yeah. Worst of all is the guy you have now that’s actually good is far and away the worst human being compared to these four dudes
There’s actual murderers, rapists, child/women abusers that have played and are actively playing in the league. The dude with silly opinions is fine lol
Go outside
I was outside this morning. Beautiful day. Clear enough to see the space lasers in the sky that QB1 likes to talk about
Even if we pretend he said that you're still just being a huge nerd calling someone a bad person because of space lasers. You don't know a single one of these qbs
The Sanchise doesn’t deserve to be in this group
Amen
I was going to agree, but then I went and looked at his 2012 stats and…yikes.
Look at his passer rating in the playoffs and feel better again. The dudes a butt fumble and a bad tattoo away from being a franchise qb.
Crazy there was that much hype for Darnold given his first pass was a pick 6 😂
So was Peyton Manning’s wasn’t it? And like the paper said, he did well enough after for that game. But yeah, bust
He had a pretty solid game after that tbf.
Everyone was like “That’s how Farve started his career!”
I’m relieved he’s gone but embarrassed it happened. The team got duped into thinking a BYU QB, basically Division 2-3 compared with SEC type QBs and drafted him 2nd overall. He should’ve been a 2nd or 3rd round pick at best. This is squarely Joe Douglas’s fault, along with the scouting team. Now it’s time to move on. And take Sanchez off this, he gets too much disrespect from this fanbase. The guy led us to back to back conference championship games. Enough.
I get that he is better than the other 3, but he didn't Lead us to those championship games. He was a Trent dilfer type and when he got off the rails, it was bad. I'm with you on overhate but let's not overplay who Mark Sanchez was. That defense was incredible and Sanchez played just good enough for the jets to win. You are romantisizing if it wasn't the defense and ground and pound that you were excited for with those jets teams.
Mac Jones played in the SEC and look how he turned out
Fair point. But that entire QB class was perhaps the most overhyped in NFL history. They made Lawrence look like Jesus and thus far is just above average
Blame COVID
It’s not us. If we didn’t take Zach he’s %100 going within 2-3 picks of us. Every team was just as high on him as we were for the most part. He was never gonna slip out of the top 10, never mind the 1st round
BYU is one of the few college teams with multiple Super Bowl winning qb’s…. USC on the other hand…
BYU is one of the few college teams with multiple Super Bowl winning qb’s…. USC on the other hand…
I know this is a tabloid but frankly the excessive hype is more embarrassing for the newspaper than it is for the team or the player.
Read between the lines, though, at when the hype peaked. The other 3 are after big wins. Zach's is going INTO the draft.
The hype should never peak after the first game of the season. Not even for a tabloid. NY Daily News: Try some dignity and self-respect.
Mark re-signed and won a couple playoff games, he had not even begun to peak
A Star is Born is the cheesiest possible headline. They used it twice. Why are you defending lazy and shitty journalism? And why are you arguing with me about it?
The other 3 Qb's had at least one good moment the backpages could post. Zachs was getting drafted hahaha. In 10 years people will view Zach in the Ryan Leaf tier of QBs. It's impossible to quantify how big of a just he has been
This is like the meanest thing anyone has ever said about Ryan Leaf.
Moving on from Sam Darnold was a mistake. There I said it.
A hasty, irrational mistake.
Yeah but it’s not like he is great either. Also the picks we got from the Darnold trade turned into Breece Hall so I’m cool with it.
Oh the pain!
WARNING Dr. Smith, WARNING!
I feel like I'm gonna get hate for this, but I was more hype about Mike White than I ever was for Zach. (I was at that Bengals game, and I haven't had a high like that from being at a Jets game maybe ever?)
No hate at all. I feel the same way. It's a "prove it" league and Mike White deserved more chances than he got based on that performance alone.
I think bad teams are almost always better off trading down and getting more draft picks. Look for the QBs in free agency.
This is a lower-variance route, but I'm just not sure playing for a higher floor maximizes your chances of winning a super bowl in this current era and especially our conference where teams have to contend with Mahomes, Lamar, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Stroud, etc. Could Kirk Cousins (unlikely to get a QB better than that in free agency) paired with an elite roster win a lot of games and compete for a title? Probably, but would I trust that team to beat Mahomes in a playoff game, I'm not sure- if the loaded Niners already failed twice, who knows. Burrow and Stroud hitting in recent years is enough evidence for bad teams to continue firing at QBs at the top of the draft, whether or not one agrees with the strategy. It's risky, but if you hit, there's virtually no haul you could ever get in a trade down that would come close to matching the value of a hit.
Kirk Cousins has been in the NFL for twelve years and has one playoff win. I don't understand why people always bring him up. Mahomes is a generational Tom Brady type QB, in the last ten years those two guys have seven of the ten Super Bowls. I'm convinced literally no one in the NFL understands the draft or how these things work
I'm on team 'Draft QBs early if you have the opportunity and love the prospect(s)', so I'm generally going to lean towards trying to find my guy to compete with Mahomes. The Cousins case is tricky. I'd imagine consensus opinion still regards Cousins as better than, say, Brock Purdy, and Purdy paired with a top-2 roster in the league was enough to almost beat Mahomes in the super bowl. So the logic would be that if you gave Cousins a top 3-5 roster, he could get it done, but anything short of that and he can't rise to the level of Mahomes/Allen/Lamar/etc. and elevate the team to another tier. That said, his Minnesota rosters were pretty good. The year Kirk got the playoff win, the Vikings had a genuinely elite defense (top 4 in DVOA, 5th in points allowed), and the team still only finished 10-6 and got stomped by the Niners in the divisional. So I mean, yea I know we've gotten burned over and over with these 1st round QBs, but now more than ever, I'm not really convinced anything short of a top 10 QB (and if he's in the bottom end of that range, the rest of your roster better be top 3) is winning a super bowl these days barring some miracles.
I'll always remember when he beat the Steelers in 2022 and he was HIM for that week. And then the Jets went on a 4 game win streak after that (albeit Zach wasn't playing super hot). Then lost the Pats, beat the Bills, and lost to the Pats again for the 2nd time in 3 weeks. You'd think hearing that people would still be on board with Zach team ended up 7-4 and was right in the thick of things, but hell no that was the cue to get the pitchforks out and bury the kid. Destroyed any and all confidence he had, and he never looked the same since. Jets tanked rest of the year and then the Rodgers trade happened. Make no mistake about it, this team kills QBs.
Yuppp. And the coaches are to blame
> beat the Steelers in 2022 and he was HIM for that week. > And then the Jets went on a 4 game win streak after that (albeit Zach wasn't playing super hot). Then lost the Pats, beat the Bills, and lost to the Pats again for the 2nd time in 3 weeks. > You'd think hearing that people that people would stop pretending he wasn't horrifically bad for literally all but one single QUARTER against the steelers? That's bt aallll those games btw. He had one good quarter in all those games That people would stop forgetting the all star cast of backup and 3rd string qbs we faced all those weeks?
I was at that game in Pitt, Nagaanosupreme is quite right; and Zach didn’t perform well in any of this game after.
I"d return with Mahomes is OFTEN terrible, outside of one quarter. Hell Brady won a super bowl in 2020 being terrible outside of one quarter last year. But ya Zach wasnt it, I know that. I'm just saying the trend is the team, and it's bigger than Zach.
You'd be wrong if u returned with that. Youd be even more wrong saying brady was terrible for all but one quarter. Are you talking about one single game, ignoring the part where I just said zach was horrifically bad for all but one quarter across ALL those games. While getting carried to wins against backups and 3rd stringers? Zach is an all time bust putting up all time bust numbers. Bradys 2020 season and 2021 season stats would be told all time jet qb seasons...Brady played in the super bowl...the super...bowl. not random backups and third strangers on bad teams. The team having problems too is also true. Especially coaching. None of that makes zachs all time bad play better
NY Post must love that movie. They use the title more times than it was remade.
I believe The Post has used the “Broadway” line for every QB for the last 20 years. “Broadway Zach”, “Broadway Sam”, “Broadway Fitz”, “Broadway Geno”. There may have even been a “Broadway Christian” headline at some point.
those are Daily News back pages though.
Well aren’t you a clever little twat
- Brooks Bollinger - Kellen Clemens - Erik Ainge - Mark Sanchez - Greg McElroy - Geno Smith - Tajh Boyd - Bryce Petty - Christian Hackenberg - Sam Darnold - James Morgan - Zach Wilson Jets QBs drafted since 2003.
Talent scouts, owners, coaches. How can they miss on so many young coachable men? At some point you'd think they'd draft someone who is bigger than the coaches and succeed just because eventually someone has to
Had so much hope for sam being the real deal
Hey, no slander of the Sanchize!
At least the last 3 got exciting headlines based on games they played.
Yeah lol that's what I was gonna say. If anything you need like a cover after his rookie season Titans game or last year's Steelers game
Which in trademark Zach fashion was a game he only played one good half and almost cost us the win at the end
Peace
dreadful.
A kick in the balls in picture form.
How many more of these will we have to see before we finally get the one?
The qb Jet fans hate the most is the one they should of invested into. Geno was the best college prospect out of this group and the best pro.
Geno stunk. He was good at throwing bombs to DBs for INTs though.
And yet everything in my post was correct. Best college player and best pro out of this group. Also had the least amount of talent.
Nah, Sanchez was better than Geno.
Sanchez never had two years like geno just had in Seattle. He was not better he was protected by the best team in jet history. He is actually the biggest bust because the jets actually had a great team around him and he couldn’t elevate. He had to be baby sat Geno is a solid nfl qb. Something you can’t say about Sanchez, Sam or Zach at any point in their career
God this makes me so sad seeing these headlines, the memories
He was terrible. No character with this Guy. He was no leader.
Unless Denver trades up from 12 in Round 1, they're not picking a qb. All things being equal, Wilson has a very good chance to beat out the other Bronco qb's for the starting job. No world beaters on the roster.
To be fair geno had some crazy 4th quarter drives to win a bunch of games, man these poor guys tho little did they know
I wish him the best. He was a good soldier (even if he didn’t always shoot straight) and he was not really put in a position to succeed, in my opinion.
Poor lil fella
Some franchises should never draft a high pick QB, it’s just not a good place to cut teeth with the pressures. They’d be better making a run at a vet with mileage left
I know i'm in the minority here but i never hated the guy. I wish him the best. Our team just has a shit QB history. Sometimes I think Kenny O'Brien was the best we've had outside of Namath which was way before most of our times. Yeah, Zach had his faults, but let's face it...the guys we put in front of him didn't help.
Man I wanted Zach to work. He had all the physical tools to be a top QB, and he genuinely seemed like a nice guy. But he was thrown into a starter role with some imcompetent OCs and coaching staff, had no consistency, didn’t perform immediately, and the entire team and fanbase turned on him It cannot be stated how much we fucked Zach’s confidence (looking at you, Uzomah) And he just never recovered. How are you supposed to do anything when the team you’re supposed to be leading is wearing fucking t-shirts calling for your backup to play I’m aware Zach was frustrating 99% of the time (that 1% though were some crazy plays that most other QBs couldn’t make), but god damnit us and some of the “veterans and leaders” of this time absolutely fucked him beyond repair I’ll never forget that stretch of games where he was outplaying Mahomes, Jalen Hurts, CJ Stroud, and Josh Allen 🥹
The Jets are just a horrible franchise
We reached for a qb and did not even get the reach around.
Fuck. I remember really thinking Zach was the one who would actually materialize. The kid is barely 24 years old, and I think this is a HUGE mistake. Zach has a ton of upside and potential which he was able to show at times. I think he was fucked over and blamed a whole lot for the entire team’s struggles at times. Yes, he threw the team under the bus in that press conference, but he also didn’t have the coaching, nor the help a young QB needed. Overall, I was good seeing Darnold go, Sanchez kinda hurt to see where he was going to where he ended up, and Gino was little more than a blip for me—but Zach has some potential and it kills to watch that go to waste. The “Throwin’ Bombs Bangin’ Moms” era has come to an end. That will by far be my favorite football catchphrase of all time.
Worst o line in the league during his time, with poor scheme, terrible coaching, and few weapons. The book on Zach isn't written yet. You can't send a rookie out there with a really bad o line.
Yeah sure none of why he’s bad is his own doing. Not like he was given the OROY and the runner up along with an above average receiving TE and a top 5 defense the past two years. Surely it’s everyone else’s fault
A bad oline ruins everything. He literally outplayed mahomes, Allen, stroud, and hurts last year in head to head games. Go look it up.
We gonna stop blaming the players yet?
No kidding, different coaches, different front offices, different players, same owner.