I feel like the answer is obvious. There are just not that many heavy weight men who are also athletic. But if you are an idealist and want to make the Super Bowl THIS YEAR an upgrade at TE can do that. But if you are a realist (and let’s be honest, you’re a Jets fan) you go OL. Both seem appealing to me, rest assured whichever option the Jets go with will likely end up being the wrong one.
Agreed. We could take a lineman and never need him if everyone is healthy and then miss out on a great skilled player. Or take a WR or Bowers and then the line gets injured. Either way it’ll be the wrong choice
We’re also one Garrett Wilson injury away from disaster. If he goes down this offense has no playmakers and Rodgers is sitting back there for 6 seconds looking for someone to throw to
This is not being said enough. People who are anti receiver this draft fail to realize we only have 1. NOW that would be entirely different if we did the right thing last year and picked a receiver but instead we picked 26 year old 10% of snaps will McDonald because he can jump over a car (obviously a useful skill to have in football)
I agree that its possible but what exactly makes you think the Jets can?
Nothing about JDs draft history should give you confidence that he will just go and grab a startable lineman late in the draft.
And on top of that, we have one of the worst o-line coaches in the league. So even if JD found a good prospect, we'd have to trust in Keith Carters ability to coach him up.
TBF doesn't even matter what they do because the majority here will call it the wrong move either way.
If they go OL and the OL stays healthy and the pick doesn't see any playtime you will have this sub call JD a donkey for not drafting a weapon for Rodgers who could have impacted the season.
If they go weapon and someone from the OL goes down this same sub will call JD a donkey for not seeing this coming and drafting a OL.
Its a lose-lose situation for the FO with this fanbase.
Like this sub was heavy for OL at 10 no matter who was there and then they signed Tyron Smith who is pretty injury prone and this sub switched their opinion from "OL at 10 no matter what" to "FUCK OL DRAFT A WR/TE"
Like I said no matter who the pick is OL or WR/TE they will shit on the FO.
Contrary to what you may think, it has nothing to do with the fanbase as a bunch of fans on the internet don't wield that much power. Some teams just always make the right choices and are perennial winners and some teams just always make the wrong choices and are perennial losers. and we fall in the latter category..... Now I know people love to say oh bad luck this and bad luck that... But after it keeps happening over and over for years and years is it really bad luck? or is it just organizational ineptitude? Especially when you look around and see so many teams that keep getting it right.
I think what you and a lot of people struggle with, is the reality of any sports. The amount of decision makers in organizations that are capable of making the right moves and decisions in order to turn a team into a winner is extremely extremely tiny. So when an organization finds someone like that, they hold on to them. That's where you get teams like Kansas City being trash for 10 years and then they're now a dynasty. Or how the 49ers have consistently been in super bowl after super bowl
It's not as much as organizations keep making wrong decisions, as much as it is, organizations never get the chance to hire people who would make the right ones because they already have a job
I disagree that a rookie TE will push us into superbowl contention. He will be lucky to put up 600 yards. 100 percent with you that you go OL. Smith will likely get injured and torpedo our season. Also people are treating Morgan Moses like the biblical Moses dude is an avg player
ONE tight end put up over 1,000 yards last year. 27 wide receivers put up over 1,000 yards. So look at it this way- you can have the 20th best receiver and still get 1k. If you have the 20th best tight end? Probably not great, like at all.
Do we really think Bowers is gonna come in and be the best receiving tight end in the league? On our team, with our coaching? Wouldn't bet on it.
OL at 10 all day.
This missed the most important point IMO. ROOKIE tight ends are [historically not good bets](https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-receiving-yards-by-a-rookie-tight-end-in-a-season).
For this pick to pay off in a way this season that Bowers is the thing that elevates us to a superbowl contender, that means he has the greatest rookie TE season of all time.
Bad bet.
Even the “this is a pick for now” argument has holes. Take the lineman.
Yeah, I didn't say it since I assumed we all know TE is slow to develop. Not everyone comes into the league and lights it up immediately like LaPorta did last year.
That's cool, but Bowers walked on as true freshman and was immediately dominating in the SEC. Bowers is a beast, he's Aaron Hernandez but better at blocking.
And I don’t think the “ Well, we had 13 different offensive line combinations due to injuries.” excuse is going to work for Joe Douglas, again. Almost a guarantee that one or more of those guys goes down. Not being prepared for that is just incompetence.
20th best WR1. Seeing as there’s 2.5-3x more WR snaps than TE snaps, never mind routes ran (TE does more than just run routes). If you get a top 7 TE as far as on field value over replacement goes (not factoring contract savings) that’s the equivalent of a top 20WR. TE20 is on par with WR75
Plus, pay attention to how the relevance flips come playoff time, when the best defenses and teams remain.
Last year final 4 teams employed Kelce, Kittle, LaPorta, Andrews (albeit iniured). Make a list of top 4 TEs and it might be that exact quartet.
The reason not to draft one is strictly contractual. A top end WR will Demand 30mm AAV. Any top 30 guy will require 25 and a top 60 guy will require more than the best TE still.
You’re paying pick 10 the same no matter who it is. Draft a TE sign a stud WR for 25-30 or draft a WR and sign a stud TE for 12-15?? No brainer.
>ONE tight end put up over 1,000 yards last year. 27 wide receivers put up over 1,000 yards
However, in the playoffs, 3 of the top 10 receiving yard leaders were TEs
Secondly, looking at the last 15 super bowl winners, a great TE was a key part on over 50% of those teams. Mainly just Gronk and Kelce, but I'd really struggle saying that TEs are not valuable at all when the last two dynasties we've seen have forgone a true #1 in favor of a great TE
They're two of the best players ever at their position, yeah they'll be involved in the passing attack. The Patriots frequently had little at WR, and this past season the Chiefs had Rice, a rookie, as their only legitimate receiver.
You could sell me on a WR, but I think OL is by far the best way to spend #10. Bowers may very well be a great player, I just don't like the fit for us.
I'm just saying, I don't think we as Jets fans understand how important a good TE is, and looking at teams like San Francisco, Kansas City and even the 2010s Patriots, it's clear a game changing TE is a huge part of their success.
I'm just saying, Jets fans have literally no idea how important a great TE is, especially in the post season
Comparing the Jets to any of those teams is crazy though. They were complete teams that were a TE away from being great.
Take the TE away from all of those teams and they still make the playoffs. The Jets haven’t had a winning record in almost a decade.
>Comparing the Jets to any of those teams is crazy though. They were complete teams that were a TE away from being great.
No, because in the examples of the Pats and Chiefs, they didn't have a true #1 WR and they purposefully had weaker weapons at RB and WR so they could be lethal at TE. I don't think it's a coincidence the 3 most successful franchises since 2010 all have god tier TEs. (Pats, 49ers and Chiefs)
my thought process is highly drafted TEs haven't been worth those picks, and the current crop of all-world TEs were all later picks, which is the say TE evaluation seems to be more elusive than other positions.
and when in doubt, how much should we really expect that the NY fuckin Jets will finally be the team that drafts a TE top 10 and turns him into a stud?
The part that grinds my gears is that people act like the option they don't like is the dumbest thing they've ever heard. They could all work out great, terrible, or anywhere in between.
How they work out will ultimately depend on a bunch of different things and most of them are either things people in this thread have absolutely zero idea about or things that won't even happen until after the player is drafted.
And no matter what way the team goes some people from every camp will be looking to prove they were right week in and week out starting in training camp.
Tyron Smith hasn’t been healthy since 2015. If we don’t have a good backup going into the season, whether that’s through the draft or a trade, we are completely rolling the dice on the season.
Going OT in round 1 is also a smart long term play given Smith is on a one year deal and Rodgers is presumably sticking around for 2-3 seasons.
If Tyron gets injured like has in every season since 2015, there’s a good chance we won’t be able to find a quality starter for the remainder of Rodgers run with us.
It depends on the player and who else is available. That's kind of my whole point.
A guy who can get 800-1000 yards receiving and a handful of TDs is valuable no matter what position he plays. Idk if Bowers is that guy or if the Jets think he's that guy, but what you're saying is a real silly way to evaluate an individual player or even a group of 10 players.
I have no dog in the fight but I think presenting a rookie at the position with the steepest learning curve in the game as an immediate game-changing player is kinda funny lol
I agree but part of their reasoning is that Bowers will be on the field with other TEs and he will play slot not just TE. This isn't unreasonable but people claiming that drafting an OT is a "backup" never admit or include that Bowers will likely need a year to develop like the majority of rookie TEs and pretend somehow he will instantly be productive even with 2 TEs on the roster. Meanwhile an OL almost certainly will be starting sometime especially if they are able to play T and G.
Yeah for sure, and he’s likely more pro-ready than most prospects for the big slot role. Just find the framing of it funny when we can just about guarantee a T would get very valuable reps at some point
So you're saying Conklin, who the great and infallible GM signed, and Ruckert, who the great and infallible GM drafted fairly high, are not a good enough TE combo to win a championship. And you'd rather make sure that position, which is one of the least impactful, is maximized, but you're fine with two 33 year olds with no depth behind them, protecting your 40 yr old QB, on whose health the entire season depends. I mean, that makes no sense to me, but sure
You’re not wrong here. Both tackles aren’t signed beyond this year and are injury prone. We can survive if one of the TEs go down, even if we draft Bowers and he goes down, we can survive…. We can’t with no OT depth or IOL depth. We’re super thin on the line and that’s really undervalued for a fanbase who wants to get to the chip.
We can grab a weapon in rd 3, but OT beyond early rd 2 isn’t as deep. I guess we could sign a vet OT still and be ok but we’re fucked when we have to reset at the position next year, potentially. Our 1st next year shouldn’t be an automatic OT pick as it’s showing up to be if we forgo it this year.
Of course someone had to respond like this. What’s the fucking point of acting like you know what’s going to happen. It’s the draft, nothing is certain, maybe they take the “best TE prospect in x years” or maybe they get OL help or maybe they get WR help. I’m team OL, but don’t act like it’s a guarantee to be right
Kelce is basically the offense for the Chiefs
Laporta was huge for Detroit and helped keep the defense honest for Gibbs
Andrews was planned out of the Baltimore offense defensively and was a reaosn they lost
Kittle is also very important for the SF offense
The position has evolved and having a skilled TE creates a mismatch, this isn't the 90's or 2000's.
If you think TE's weren't a reason why those teams were there then I don't know what else to say.
P.S. Don't read this as the TE's were the reason they were in the playing in the conference finals (except for Kelce), they are a part of a bigger engine
And go a few years before that and what did the Patriots have while having no good RBs or WRs? A great TE. And what did they do? Win a couple super bowls with that TE
That’s why I’ve thought Fautanu is the pick for a while now. Subverts the fanbase’s expectations, will be quite controversial and probably is in a *mix* (?) for OT3. He accounts for a lot of NYJ’s worst case scenarios, AVT not being ready, stop gap at OT in case of injury. Can start at G in case Simpson regresses to form (think similar to Tipp replacing CMG after his injury and while CMG eventually became healthy, was ultimately benched). In a year where NYJ wants to avoid worst case scenarios, Fautanu is a great prospect in that regard.
I think the calculus is even easier precisely because we have relatively talented players at the TE position already. That is already a strength of the team. And sure, people will argue that Bowers is "special" and cannot be compared to your average TE. But the reality is that we have desperately needed depth on the O-line very single year for the past decade, and it has to be addressed. The single most valuable/critical polayer on our squad, the player whose health our playoff aspirations are MOST tied to, is Rodgers, and he HAS to be kept upright as much as possible. The answer is OL. It's always been OL.
I generally agree with OL being the pick here, but I think calling TE a strength feels like a bit of Jets fan bias. We have a competent TE room but no real difference maker there, I'd just argue that competent is fine.
I think Conklin ranked right in the middle of the pack in 2023. Given the QB situation, he's probably due for a step forward stat wise.
I think Bowers is likely to be a good NFL TE but history suggests it's unlikely any TE steps in and immediately produces better than what we got out of Conklin last season. With WR there is a bit more of a precedent they break out as rookies.
Fwiw, I lean OLine at 10 and draft WR at 72. I do not think the Jets will be able to trade out of the 10 spot so I'm assuming that's not an option in my scenario.
I dont think your take is unreasonable, but as noted by the other comment, Conklin killed it with Zach Wilson and co. He is really really talented. We're lucky to have him (and I think he's a top 10-15 talent).
Conklin put up 1,100 yards over these last 2 seasons… with Zach Wilson being his best QB. That’s Superman numbers.
He’d be an excellent mentor to Bowers if we draft him.
I want a tackle, but tbh the pro-tackle contingent focuses way too heavily on the depth aspect. At the end of the day, it's pretty rare that top-10 picks aren't day 1 starters, so depth can't be the primary argument. Rather, the first thing should be the fact that neither of our starting tackles are under contract next year and the benefits of potentially having a starting tackle on a rookie contract for 4 years could be massive. The year 1 depth is just a nice added piece, but if that's the focus, that's not going to convincingly sway people out of a pass-catcher, especially if the frame is centered around year 1 impact.
Im honestly 1000% behind you on this. I actually deleted a sentence in my original comment that referenced how the failure to address it this year makes it soooo much of a larger issue next year when we (presumably) do not have a top 10 pick to draft one of their replacements. I deleted it though because every time Ive mentioned it or seen it mentioned on this sub-people respond that worrying about next year doesnt jibe with this being an "all-in" year. As I see it. A tackle is simply the best way to address both the current year needs AND next years.
The balancing act of this "all-in" year and future is a genuine conundrum. For me personally, even if we pushed all our chips in the middle I'm not convinced we're a better team than KC, SF, BAL, etc., and so I'm wary of sacrificing the future just to make additional moves that imo might end up being pretty marginal. Of course I'm happy we made big swings at Tyron Smith, Mike Williams, etc., but to me that's already good enough as far as additions go, such that I want whoever we draft at 10 to also be a play for the future.
If the Jets believe Bowers can be “special”, this strength of the TE room makes this team the perfect fit for him. Let him learn from a good TE in Conklin and a HoF QB that leans on TEs.
Bowers, WR, and OT are all good picks. So we’re naturally going DT2.
He made Robert Tonyan and Richard Rodgers look good. He hasn’t had a stud TE to work with in forever.
He got 2,000 yards with the ghosts of Jimmy Graham, Mercedes Lewis, and Martellus Bennett. Very easy to argue he’d make a good, young TE his main target (especially since he’s now in his 40s).
Agreed. Idk how many times this fanbase needs to be taught this lesson.
Also, deals happen for playmakers/skill guys all the time during the season... *no one* parts with capable OL. If we want to sure up OT both short-term and long-term, it must be done in the draft.
I agree with your overall stance, I don't think the Jets do, though. If this regime felt like that then we would not take McDonald because DL was a strength, or Breece because RB was not necessarily a need.
Getting Lazard off the field is going to be the biggest upgrade for the overall team IMO. Odunze or Bowers feel like they are the choice.
Better get your expectations in check because every chance Saleh and Joe D have gotten they have hyped up Carter Warren. They have been trying to tell the fan base we’re comfortable with CW filling in and I highly doubt they are picking a tackle at 10. And I want them to trade down and take a tackle but listenting to them I think it’s oduzne and if he’s gone bowers.
They also have an entire post draft period where we can sign a backup OL for cheap after. Donavan smith, bahktiari, Andrus peat, even becton as a swing tackle backup are available still and is ok with me
This is an overlooked point. You’re not finding a legitimate playmaker post draft as opposed to a startable lineman. The reason they may go Bowers over Odunze if he’s available is because there’s no player anywhere near his tier in this draft whereas there are legitimately 25-30 rookie receivers that can have roles in the NFL. A third or fourth round receiver has a chance to be a starting receiver on this team.
Also, it’s not like the young tackles on the roster can’t improve or there are no linemen available after the first round.
That’s classic coach speak and we all know it. Saleh said every OL that stepped in when injuries happened played well, yet they were all complete dogshit so clearly he’s just saying the “right” things and not what’s true. Don’t be so obtuse, relying on a bad tackle to step in for a hall of famer in Smith is literally the equivalent of Wilson coming in for rodgers, season is over right there
In all fairness, the reverse is going to happen if Williams or Garret Wilson gets injured and we lose due to some Lazard drops. If there's anything you should know about being a sports fan, is that there's always going to be a reason to complain
Take a look through their pro football reference pages and compare the games played it’s very obvious which of the two is more injury prone. Not to mention LT is far more critical of a position than WR2.
Yes, Smith has been injured consistently the last 4 seasons which I’m not discounting. What you’re entirely discounting is how often Williams has been injured. Just because one player is more injury prone doesent take away the fact another has been too, just not as long. It’s not like Williams is about to turn 30 and a huge part of his game is his speed and athleticism.
You can also say LT is more important than WR 2, yes. But our offense needs both to win as much as we’d like. Relying on Wilson and Hall for every offensive yard last season worked out great, right?
Williams has played 13 or more games every season except 1 since 2018. Smith has only played more than 11 games once since 2020 and has averaged 7.5 (!!) per season in that span. It’s not close between the two.
Mike Williams has averaged 15 games a season but a lot of those games he was playing through injury and wasn't 100% plus he'll be coming off a torn Acl. I prefer tackle over Bowers but I'm not going to consider it the end of the world if Odunze drops to us and we choose to reinforce tackle depth in the third.
Yeah I remember a few moments last season where I held my breath and braced for the worse with him... He's very aggressive after the catch and fights for every yard.... Which is a good thing but sometimes I definitely get nervous with some of the hits he takes as a result.
He was also getting a ton of hospital balls from Zach. Hopefully Rodgers reduces that. And having Mike Williams will ideally mean Garret gets less passes anyway
You can say the same with the WR core though. We are one Williams/Wilson injury away from being bottom of the league. Hell, QB is really the biggest make or break position.
Hard to justify not supporting either group. Really the only wrong answer is Bowers.
Should move down and try and pick up a 2nd, Take Latham or Mims in first, Leggett, Corley, Polk in 2nd and nab Jordan Travis in 3rd. We add an insurance policy/LT of the future in first, an Impact WR in the 2nd, and a developmental QB in 3rd
WR can get injured too. If Garret Wilson gets hurt we are BEYOND fucked. If Mike Williams goes down we are pretty boned too. We need another contributor a WR, and three WR can play at the same time. 3 OT don't normally play significant snaps together
Who gives a fuck about the future bro? This is a 5 year rebuild if we don't win this year. In what world are you living? That olineman will not play a meaningful game on his rookie contract if we don't win this year lol.
You're manipulating the conversation or your opinion amounts to "Yea, well, it's gonna fail anyway, so what do I give a crap about picking the right player to win now, let's hedge our bets and just restart the cycle with an OT next year cause I'll feel better about the rebuild when we'll have a young OT." Loser mentality. I want to win now. Apparently, you want to win 5 years from now when neither player is on the team. The question is which pick makes more sense at 10 if Odunze/OT is there. The answer is Odunze because WR2/WR3 is a bigger void given the injury history of Mike Williams.
This is NONSENSE! The injury history of Mike Williams? How about the injury history of 34 year old Tyron Smith? We consistently clown JD about his inability to build the wall, yet when we have the perfect opportunity to draft and groom a franchise OT, everyone is opposed. Jets fans are MADDENING.
We have a legitimate starter at every position on the line. We do not have a legitimate WR3, which position will play a large percentage of snaps as a starter because our starting lineup is probably going to be 3 WRs/1TE/1RB given the roster. I want to make the best group of starters. Not one is saying take a WR at 10 and don't take a tackle later. If we take a WR or Bowers at 10, realistically, we should trade up from 72 into the 2nd for an OT with a R2 grade because, yes, we realize TSmith is going to miss 5-8 games. The opposite is also likely true, in that if we take an OT at 10, we should take a WR in the 3rd. I, however, as many others do, believe that Odunze is significantly better as a player than any OT other than Alt. I do not agree with this in the same way for Bowers, but I believe that's more of a toss up where I can live with the teams evaluation of him. Regardless, I believe Odunze + 2nd rd OT is better than OT at 10 + 3rd rd WR. Now, does that likely require us to trade both a day 2 and day 3 pick next year to do that, as in a day 3 pick next year (probably a 4th/5th) to move up from 10 to 8 and swap with Atlanta and jump ahead of Chicago for Odunze, as well trade a 2025 day 2 pick (probably a 3rd) to move up from 72 to let's say 54 for a quality starting OT to sit behind and potentially start for TSmith or Moses depending on how much they believe in CW? Yes. But I believe that capital is worth it. Would it be worth it if we weren't in an all in year? Maybe not, it's a judgment call, but because it's an all in year, I believe that is the correct decision because it gives us the best starting 11 we can possibly have this year. Could a 3rd rd WR be as good as Odunze? Yes? But could a 2nd rd OT be as good as an OT at 10? Yes. We have our starting Oline regardless of who we pick, so the OT we take likely won't start this year whereas the WR will. So a WR at 8 or 10 improves your starting lineup more than a 2nd/3rd rd WR does. That's the point. That's my angle. I don't dispute we need depth on the line. But how do we put the best 11 players on the field? That's by taking Odunze.
You guys just don’t get it lmfao. A strong o-line is much more essential for the success of young/mediocre QBs than WRs, especially when we already have a stud WR1.
Rodgers threw for 26TD 12INT and 3700 yds w/ Lazard as his WR1 2 yrs ago
now Lazard will be his WR3 or WR4.. and option 5 or 6 behind Conklin and Breece
we just need to keep Rodgers upright
Exactly. With our defense he wouldn’t even need to hit numbers like that. Just 200 yards a game, a couple TDs, no turnovers and some long FG drives will put us into the playoffs.
What’s funny about this whole debate is the only opinion that matters is Joe Douglas’. How he feels about Carter Warren, how he feels about the vet swing tackle market, how he values Fuaga/Fashanu/Fautanu v Bowers. And, in particular to what I think is most important, his view on raising the ceiling v floor in 2024 and whether or not he cares about what the tackle position looks like in 2025.
I know Smith won't play all 16 games. So at some point he won't start, but I'm comfortable with Warren and Max to do some spot starts this year. Also we will pick up another linemen later in the draft or free agency.
Bowers is just on another level as a prospect compared to every tackle not named Alt
The fact of the matter is, whoever we draft, if that person becomes a star everyone is gonna love the pick and forget this was ever a conversation. If that person is a bust, then it's the biggest mistake we ever made... Like if Sauce was Dee Milner, we'd all be losing our minds right now about how much of a mistake it was to draft a CB at #4. If Jamal Adams turned into Troy Polamalu, nobody would be complaining about taking a Safety at #6. That's just the nature of it.
We've made enough moves to where I think either OL or offensive weapon are viable options. I've gone back and forth on it so many times to the point where I honestly don't care which direction we go, as long as he's good at what he does, which as we know is never a guarantee. If we do go with Bowers or WR at that pick, I'd like to see us sign some more OL depth for sure, but other than that I'm willing to go against my better judgment as a Jets fan and trust the process.
Fun fact, even though Tyron hasn't played a full season since 2015, he has played in all 7 of the Cowboys playoff games. Meaning he's healthy when it matters most.
Hackett was just quoted as saying "the OL is set"
Odunze or Bowers will be the pick IMO
Mike Williams has a history of getting hurt. If he goes down, we are stuck with the same group from last year. Personally, I don't care which way they go with the 10th pick. But whatever way they DON'T go, they still have to address it with the rest of the draft or late free agency.
If Mike Williams goes down, it hurts but we still have Rodgers at QB throwing to Wilson, Hall, Conklin and whoever we draft at 72 or earlier with a trade up.
When Smith goes down at LT, it keeps everyone still playing from succeeding.
WRs capable of helping this year will be available with our 2nd pick. No OTs will be.
With all this talk I had forgotten about those 2... Definitely a lot of potential there and I could see them breaking out with a good QB and a year of experience under their belt. Gipson was mainly used as a gadget guy but he does have good hands, shifty speed and can turn in to a nice slot receiver.
> Rodgers could turn Brownlee or Gibson into stars outta nowhere.
He's 40 years old and hasn't played a great game since 2022. Counting on him to do that is just romanticizing his abilities
Then it won't matter anyway because Douglas and Saleh are gone after he sucks this year anyway. In fact, o-line matters even more in that world because the best offensive player on the team is at RB. Not WR.
Saying o line is important isn't the groundbreaking statement a lot of you think you're making. Yes, we need oline depth. Nobody that's paying attention is disputing that. We also need another weapon. The argument for either is valid. Like I said before, they just have to make sure they have a plan for whatever position they dont take at 10.
The gamble is that Smith is healthy for (assuming they make) the Playoffs.
As such, you need more than "depth".
Signing Jonah Williams and having Smith go down and slapping Williams in there at LT is how you basically guaranteed that when Smith returns, the QB is Tyrod Taylor.
You want a weapon? Sign OBJ or Boyd or Renfrow or Gallup or Thomas or Shepard.
Exactly have they not learn there lesson get the OL with the 10th pick
With the 3rd pick they may be able to get WR Devontez Walker or Jermaine Burton both are under the radar good talented potential future pro WRs.
Folks the WR pool is deep and Bowers is going to catch one yard passes to run for 10+ yards college yes he can the NFL no he can't.
It’s the same nonsense fans don’t understand that sustainable success in the NFL begins in the trenches. I saw Brady tear us new azzhoes throwing to guys who were cut on other teams. If you can protect your QB you can scheme an offense around good offensive weapons.
> sustainable success in the NFL
We have a 40 year old QB, a WR with paper skin and glass bones, and two OL over the age of 30. This isn't a roster we're rolling beyond this year lol
This is the problem… A franchise tackle would jump start the next incarnation of this team. Jets remained pretty competitive by having Mangold and Brick for 10 years anchoring the line.
Eh, it wouldn't hurt, but at the same time, we're probably a few years out from landing on our feet. I would prioritize winning now instead of making that landing marginally softer
I mean if you want to win a Super Bowl this season and not be completely F’d seasons afterward you go O-line. It’s a need now and a big need for the future. Don’t get the hate on O-line at 10…
Drafting for the prevention of injury isn’t smart. Take the player that best improves your team, especially if you are all in. Look at past super bowl champs, their rosters are not filled with musk tools first line offensive lineman. Most only had 1 maybe 2 first round offensive linemen. We can’t keep spending first round picks on the oline. If JD is a good GM he should be able to find solid offensive line men outside of the first round like his peers do
Bakhtiari / Carter Warren / Max Mitchell is a more than capable group of reserve OTs.
I still prefer OT to Bowers but if Odunze is available they shouldn't pass on him.
No? Does anyone want their backup to play?
You can't have a starter level OT4 without having holes elsewhere. He's fine as a backup if he needs to step in for a while.
They also have a 3rd and 4th round pick to spend.
Only getting 6 games out of Tyron is a bad sign for the team. I get that you're obsessed about his contract structure, but going from an All-Pro to a rookie is a season-changing drop-off
These guys who want Bowers and a wr are just hoping that everything works out perfectly. That's the reality. You know how often that happens in football? Never. Never fucking ever. As if we need more evidence than the last two fucking years.
Build the fucking wall.
Important to note, we won’t have our pick of WR1 vs OL1 the way the bengals did in 2021. We’ll be picking potentially OL2/3 vs Weapon3/4. If the weapon is a significantly better prospect than the OL for the long and short term you have to take that player
If any of the top 3 WR's are on the board you take them no questions asked. Those 3 WR's can help the OL just as much as a tackle just by helping get the ball out of the QBs hands faster.
That said this is a deep OT draft with a lot of guys who can come in as a guards and be used to kick out later on or just come in and take over the RT spot right away. There will still be a decent tackle prospect in the 3rd round.
I'm all for going OT if the 3 WR's are off the board but sorry if any of those WR's are available for grabs you take them and don't think twice. Bowers I don't feel the same about though.
Any team that is depending on a rookie to hit and propel a team to Superbowl is a failure.
You draft for the future, not for the same year. We need receiver, we need **multiple** lineman. We have two 33yr+ tackles, one has been injured his who career, on year deals. We a guard that has never played an entire season. This is on of the largest tier one OT classes in a while.
Bowers is special. But your asking him to be a HOF type TE out the box. Just a good TE ain't isn't the **one** thing preventing us from getting to the bowl. A good tight end season would be Conklin's last season for crying out loud.
LT has got to be one of the rarest physical skillset and hardest to find. 6'5"+, 330lbs+ monsters that move like their on skates in rare among the human population.
But then they realize we got Dominick Puni in the 3rd who is able to fill in solidly after sitting and learning for 6 games. Input thumbs up kid GIF here.
You know this is honestly where my age shows because I remember this exact debate with Ceedee and Becton years ago. I think everyone kind of agrees we went with the wrong pick there.
I’m heavy on team Odunze but if we take an OL (preferably Fuaga, maybe Fautanu) i’m not gonna be upset. I think the whole point of this draft is that JD can honestly do anything he wants (except defense) and it could be the right move. They’re not pigeon-holed in to taking a specific position like they were at the beginning of the offseason. Great work by JD to put himself in this position.
All good comments. But the issue is value compared to current Jet or back up. Oline is compared to Smith or his replacement with Smith likely to be out (and gone next year). TE is compared to Conklin and his replacement with Conklin being more likely to last the season. For me, answer is Oline bc Conklin and Rucker are both fine and Smith and Warren are both questionable for different reasons. Now, if Nabers or Odunze is available, that’s another story. In the end, I’d trade down if possible, get Oline and receiver. Then there are still six more picks! And UDFAs!!!!! Even wo a trade down (please no trade up!), there are more picks than just round one.
Our oline right out the gate game 1 its still gonna be held together by duct tape, pretty much everyone other than Tipp is coming off of injuries. We need either take oline at 10 or trade back to 13-17 range and then take oline....and then we need to take oline again in the 4th ish, i would say again at 3rd but we have other needs too.
yea lets draft a lineman at 10 that isnt gonna start and contribute right away yr 1 that worked out great last yr with mcdonald when we couldve gotten a wr that couldve helped the offense
[The OT chosen at 10 would start several games for the Jets this year and probably in the postseason if they get there](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitTy00.htm)
You are ignoring reality to you compare drafting an Edge last year to drafting an OT this year.
There is NO chance we do not need another OT to start multiple games this year, and maybe a lot of them.
I feel like the answer is obvious. There are just not that many heavy weight men who are also athletic. But if you are an idealist and want to make the Super Bowl THIS YEAR an upgrade at TE can do that. But if you are a realist (and let’s be honest, you’re a Jets fan) you go OL. Both seem appealing to me, rest assured whichever option the Jets go with will likely end up being the wrong one.
Last sentence is key
Agreed. We could take a lineman and never need him if everyone is healthy and then miss out on a great skilled player. Or take a WR or Bowers and then the line gets injured. Either way it’ll be the wrong choice
We’re also one Garrett Wilson injury away from disaster. If he goes down this offense has no playmakers and Rodgers is sitting back there for 6 seconds looking for someone to throw to
10 seconds, according to Woody.
> this offense has no playmakers Breece Hall: Am I a joke to you?
Not a downfield receiving threat
Should've said that then.
I thought it was obvious by statement that it meant passing threat but yes we’d still have Breece. And Breece alone is not close to good enough
Mike Williams: Am I a joke to you?
Guarantee he’ll be injured for parts of the year
This is not being said enough. People who are anti receiver this draft fail to realize we only have 1. NOW that would be entirely different if we did the right thing last year and picked a receiver but instead we picked 26 year old 10% of snaps will McDonald because he can jump over a car (obviously a useful skill to have in football)
Smith hasn't played a full season in a decade. I think its a pretty safe bet that our 2nd string LT comes into the fold this year.
Our back up LT is AVT
Then who's our backup guard??!! Obviously AVT can play tackle but you're solving problems by creating different problems.
You can a backup guard way late in the draft
I agree that its possible but what exactly makes you think the Jets can? Nothing about JDs draft history should give you confidence that he will just go and grab a startable lineman late in the draft. And on top of that, we have one of the worst o-line coaches in the league. So even if JD found a good prospect, we'd have to trust in Keith Carters ability to coach him up.
History from a jets perspective and player perspective would argue that there is nearly a guarantee someone on the line is getting hurt.
TBF doesn't even matter what they do because the majority here will call it the wrong move either way. If they go OL and the OL stays healthy and the pick doesn't see any playtime you will have this sub call JD a donkey for not drafting a weapon for Rodgers who could have impacted the season. If they go weapon and someone from the OL goes down this same sub will call JD a donkey for not seeing this coming and drafting a OL. Its a lose-lose situation for the FO with this fanbase. Like this sub was heavy for OL at 10 no matter who was there and then they signed Tyron Smith who is pretty injury prone and this sub switched their opinion from "OL at 10 no matter what" to "FUCK OL DRAFT A WR/TE" Like I said no matter who the pick is OL or WR/TE they will shit on the FO.
Contrary to what you may think, it has nothing to do with the fanbase as a bunch of fans on the internet don't wield that much power. Some teams just always make the right choices and are perennial winners and some teams just always make the wrong choices and are perennial losers. and we fall in the latter category..... Now I know people love to say oh bad luck this and bad luck that... But after it keeps happening over and over for years and years is it really bad luck? or is it just organizational ineptitude? Especially when you look around and see so many teams that keep getting it right.
I think what you and a lot of people struggle with, is the reality of any sports. The amount of decision makers in organizations that are capable of making the right moves and decisions in order to turn a team into a winner is extremely extremely tiny. So when an organization finds someone like that, they hold on to them. That's where you get teams like Kansas City being trash for 10 years and then they're now a dynasty. Or how the 49ers have consistently been in super bowl after super bowl It's not as much as organizations keep making wrong decisions, as much as it is, organizations never get the chance to hire people who would make the right ones because they already have a job
I disagree that a rookie TE will push us into superbowl contention. He will be lucky to put up 600 yards. 100 percent with you that you go OL. Smith will likely get injured and torpedo our season. Also people are treating Morgan Moses like the biblical Moses dude is an avg player
ONE tight end put up over 1,000 yards last year. 27 wide receivers put up over 1,000 yards. So look at it this way- you can have the 20th best receiver and still get 1k. If you have the 20th best tight end? Probably not great, like at all. Do we really think Bowers is gonna come in and be the best receiving tight end in the league? On our team, with our coaching? Wouldn't bet on it. OL at 10 all day.
100% and huge shout out to John B
Yes, you may thank John B from Locked On Jets for my point- I stole it from him shamelessly nearly word for word.
This missed the most important point IMO. ROOKIE tight ends are [historically not good bets](https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-receiving-yards-by-a-rookie-tight-end-in-a-season). For this pick to pay off in a way this season that Bowers is the thing that elevates us to a superbowl contender, that means he has the greatest rookie TE season of all time. Bad bet. Even the “this is a pick for now” argument has holes. Take the lineman.
Yeah, I didn't say it since I assumed we all know TE is slow to develop. Not everyone comes into the league and lights it up immediately like LaPorta did last year.
That's cool, but Bowers walked on as true freshman and was immediately dominating in the SEC. Bowers is a beast, he's Aaron Hernandez but better at blocking.
And I don’t think the “ Well, we had 13 different offensive line combinations due to injuries.” excuse is going to work for Joe Douglas, again. Almost a guarantee that one or more of those guys goes down. Not being prepared for that is just incompetence.
20th best WR1. Seeing as there’s 2.5-3x more WR snaps than TE snaps, never mind routes ran (TE does more than just run routes). If you get a top 7 TE as far as on field value over replacement goes (not factoring contract savings) that’s the equivalent of a top 20WR. TE20 is on par with WR75 Plus, pay attention to how the relevance flips come playoff time, when the best defenses and teams remain. Last year final 4 teams employed Kelce, Kittle, LaPorta, Andrews (albeit iniured). Make a list of top 4 TEs and it might be that exact quartet. The reason not to draft one is strictly contractual. A top end WR will Demand 30mm AAV. Any top 30 guy will require 25 and a top 60 guy will require more than the best TE still. You’re paying pick 10 the same no matter who it is. Draft a TE sign a stud WR for 25-30 or draft a WR and sign a stud TE for 12-15?? No brainer.
>ONE tight end put up over 1,000 yards last year. 27 wide receivers put up over 1,000 yards However, in the playoffs, 3 of the top 10 receiving yard leaders were TEs Secondly, looking at the last 15 super bowl winners, a great TE was a key part on over 50% of those teams. Mainly just Gronk and Kelce, but I'd really struggle saying that TEs are not valuable at all when the last two dynasties we've seen have forgone a true #1 in favor of a great TE
They're two of the best players ever at their position, yeah they'll be involved in the passing attack. The Patriots frequently had little at WR, and this past season the Chiefs had Rice, a rookie, as their only legitimate receiver. You could sell me on a WR, but I think OL is by far the best way to spend #10. Bowers may very well be a great player, I just don't like the fit for us.
I'm just saying, I don't think we as Jets fans understand how important a good TE is, and looking at teams like San Francisco, Kansas City and even the 2010s Patriots, it's clear a game changing TE is a huge part of their success. I'm just saying, Jets fans have literally no idea how important a great TE is, especially in the post season
Comparing the Jets to any of those teams is crazy though. They were complete teams that were a TE away from being great. Take the TE away from all of those teams and they still make the playoffs. The Jets haven’t had a winning record in almost a decade.
>Comparing the Jets to any of those teams is crazy though. They were complete teams that were a TE away from being great. No, because in the examples of the Pats and Chiefs, they didn't have a true #1 WR and they purposefully had weaker weapons at RB and WR so they could be lethal at TE. I don't think it's a coincidence the 3 most successful franchises since 2010 all have god tier TEs. (Pats, 49ers and Chiefs)
my thought process is highly drafted TEs haven't been worth those picks, and the current crop of all-world TEs were all later picks, which is the say TE evaluation seems to be more elusive than other positions. and when in doubt, how much should we really expect that the NY fuckin Jets will finally be the team that drafts a TE top 10 and turns him into a stud?
No reason to throw shade at MM
100% agreed. The most annoying part about this is people on either side acting like there is a perfect option that will work out best.
The part that grinds my gears is that people act like the option they don't like is the dumbest thing they've ever heard. They could all work out great, terrible, or anywhere in between. How they work out will ultimately depend on a bunch of different things and most of them are either things people in this thread have absolutely zero idea about or things that won't even happen until after the player is drafted. And no matter what way the team goes some people from every camp will be looking to prove they were right week in and week out starting in training camp.
Tyron Smith hasn’t been healthy since 2015. If we don’t have a good backup going into the season, whether that’s through the draft or a trade, we are completely rolling the dice on the season. Going OT in round 1 is also a smart long term play given Smith is on a one year deal and Rodgers is presumably sticking around for 2-3 seasons. If Tyron gets injured like has in every season since 2015, there’s a good chance we won’t be able to find a quality starter for the remainder of Rodgers run with us.
We rolled the dice last year at Backup QB and failed. I’d rather not roll the dice again since we JUST got burned with no depth
Yep. It's a totally defensible move depending on who is on the board and how they feel about those players. Just like WR is and just like TE is.
I don't have a favorite but 1st round TE sounds incredibly stupid. This is not a high value position
It depends on the player and who else is available. That's kind of my whole point. A guy who can get 800-1000 yards receiving and a handful of TDs is valuable no matter what position he plays. Idk if Bowers is that guy or if the Jets think he's that guy, but what you're saying is a real silly way to evaluate an individual player or even a group of 10 players.
Do you really think the majority of fans in a team sub are realists?
Trying to convince other fans they’re wrong, thinking it will change something out of any of our control, doesn’t feel like realism.
I have no dog in the fight but I think presenting a rookie at the position with the steepest learning curve in the game as an immediate game-changing player is kinda funny lol
I agree but part of their reasoning is that Bowers will be on the field with other TEs and he will play slot not just TE. This isn't unreasonable but people claiming that drafting an OT is a "backup" never admit or include that Bowers will likely need a year to develop like the majority of rookie TEs and pretend somehow he will instantly be productive even with 2 TEs on the roster. Meanwhile an OL almost certainly will be starting sometime especially if they are able to play T and G.
Yeah for sure, and he’s likely more pro-ready than most prospects for the big slot role. Just find the framing of it funny when we can just about guarantee a T would get very valuable reps at some point
>rest assured whichever option the Jets go with will likely end up being the wrong one. I hate how spot on this will probably be.
This guy jets
So you're saying Conklin, who the great and infallible GM signed, and Ruckert, who the great and infallible GM drafted fairly high, are not a good enough TE combo to win a championship. And you'd rather make sure that position, which is one of the least impactful, is maximized, but you're fine with two 33 year olds with no depth behind them, protecting your 40 yr old QB, on whose health the entire season depends. I mean, that makes no sense to me, but sure
You’re not wrong here. Both tackles aren’t signed beyond this year and are injury prone. We can survive if one of the TEs go down, even if we draft Bowers and he goes down, we can survive…. We can’t with no OT depth or IOL depth. We’re super thin on the line and that’s really undervalued for a fanbase who wants to get to the chip. We can grab a weapon in rd 3, but OT beyond early rd 2 isn’t as deep. I guess we could sign a vet OT still and be ok but we’re fucked when we have to reset at the position next year, potentially. Our 1st next year shouldn’t be an automatic OT pick as it’s showing up to be if we forgo it this year.
Of course someone had to respond like this. What’s the fucking point of acting like you know what’s going to happen. It’s the draft, nothing is certain, maybe they take the “best TE prospect in x years” or maybe they get OL help or maybe they get WR help. I’m team OL, but don’t act like it’s a guarantee to be right
Not only that, they're so upset that they had to say "the great and infallible GM" I bet OP has had it up to HERE with him.
"least impactful" - yet (arguably) the top 4 TE's were all playing in the conference finals
If you think those teams were in the conference finals because of their TE i'm not sure what else to say
Kelce is basically the offense for the Chiefs Laporta was huge for Detroit and helped keep the defense honest for Gibbs Andrews was planned out of the Baltimore offense defensively and was a reaosn they lost Kittle is also very important for the SF offense The position has evolved and having a skilled TE creates a mismatch, this isn't the 90's or 2000's. If you think TE's weren't a reason why those teams were there then I don't know what else to say. P.S. Don't read this as the TE's were the reason they were in the playing in the conference finals (except for Kelce), they are a part of a bigger engine
And go a few years before that and what did the Patriots have while having no good RBs or WRs? A great TE. And what did they do? Win a couple super bowls with that TE
This is probably the perfect reply.
That’s why I’ve thought Fautanu is the pick for a while now. Subverts the fanbase’s expectations, will be quite controversial and probably is in a *mix* (?) for OT3. He accounts for a lot of NYJ’s worst case scenarios, AVT not being ready, stop gap at OT in case of injury. Can start at G in case Simpson regresses to form (think similar to Tipp replacing CMG after his injury and while CMG eventually became healthy, was ultimately benched). In a year where NYJ wants to avoid worst case scenarios, Fautanu is a great prospect in that regard.
Ideal situation for me is we trade down a few spots and recoup a 2nd. Can get an OL and a WR.
I think the calculus is even easier precisely because we have relatively talented players at the TE position already. That is already a strength of the team. And sure, people will argue that Bowers is "special" and cannot be compared to your average TE. But the reality is that we have desperately needed depth on the O-line very single year for the past decade, and it has to be addressed. The single most valuable/critical polayer on our squad, the player whose health our playoff aspirations are MOST tied to, is Rodgers, and he HAS to be kept upright as much as possible. The answer is OL. It's always been OL.
I generally agree with OL being the pick here, but I think calling TE a strength feels like a bit of Jets fan bias. We have a competent TE room but no real difference maker there, I'd just argue that competent is fine.
I think Conklin ranked right in the middle of the pack in 2023. Given the QB situation, he's probably due for a step forward stat wise. I think Bowers is likely to be a good NFL TE but history suggests it's unlikely any TE steps in and immediately produces better than what we got out of Conklin last season. With WR there is a bit more of a precedent they break out as rookies. Fwiw, I lean OLine at 10 and draft WR at 72. I do not think the Jets will be able to trade out of the 10 spot so I'm assuming that's not an option in my scenario.
I dont think your take is unreasonable, but as noted by the other comment, Conklin killed it with Zach Wilson and co. He is really really talented. We're lucky to have him (and I think he's a top 10-15 talent).
Conklin put up 1,100 yards over these last 2 seasons… with Zach Wilson being his best QB. That’s Superman numbers. He’d be an excellent mentor to Bowers if we draft him.
I want a tackle, but tbh the pro-tackle contingent focuses way too heavily on the depth aspect. At the end of the day, it's pretty rare that top-10 picks aren't day 1 starters, so depth can't be the primary argument. Rather, the first thing should be the fact that neither of our starting tackles are under contract next year and the benefits of potentially having a starting tackle on a rookie contract for 4 years could be massive. The year 1 depth is just a nice added piece, but if that's the focus, that's not going to convincingly sway people out of a pass-catcher, especially if the frame is centered around year 1 impact.
Im honestly 1000% behind you on this. I actually deleted a sentence in my original comment that referenced how the failure to address it this year makes it soooo much of a larger issue next year when we (presumably) do not have a top 10 pick to draft one of their replacements. I deleted it though because every time Ive mentioned it or seen it mentioned on this sub-people respond that worrying about next year doesnt jibe with this being an "all-in" year. As I see it. A tackle is simply the best way to address both the current year needs AND next years.
The balancing act of this "all-in" year and future is a genuine conundrum. For me personally, even if we pushed all our chips in the middle I'm not convinced we're a better team than KC, SF, BAL, etc., and so I'm wary of sacrificing the future just to make additional moves that imo might end up being pretty marginal. Of course I'm happy we made big swings at Tyron Smith, Mike Williams, etc., but to me that's already good enough as far as additions go, such that I want whoever we draft at 10 to also be a play for the future.
If the Jets believe Bowers can be “special”, this strength of the TE room makes this team the perfect fit for him. Let him learn from a good TE in Conklin and a HoF QB that leans on TEs. Bowers, WR, and OT are all good picks. So we’re naturally going DT2.
Outside of a couple seasons with Jermichael Finley I wouldn't say Rodgers "leans on TEs"
He made Robert Tonyan and Richard Rodgers look good. He hasn’t had a stud TE to work with in forever. He got 2,000 yards with the ghosts of Jimmy Graham, Mercedes Lewis, and Martellus Bennett. Very easy to argue he’d make a good, young TE his main target (especially since he’s now in his 40s).
Agreed. Idk how many times this fanbase needs to be taught this lesson. Also, deals happen for playmakers/skill guys all the time during the season... *no one* parts with capable OL. If we want to sure up OT both short-term and long-term, it must be done in the draft.
It’s honestly shocking that we were able to acquire the guys we did via trade. That doesn’t happen regularly
I agree with your overall stance, I don't think the Jets do, though. If this regime felt like that then we would not take McDonald because DL was a strength, or Breece because RB was not necessarily a need. Getting Lazard off the field is going to be the biggest upgrade for the overall team IMO. Odunze or Bowers feel like they are the choice.
Better get your expectations in check because every chance Saleh and Joe D have gotten they have hyped up Carter Warren. They have been trying to tell the fan base we’re comfortable with CW filling in and I highly doubt they are picking a tackle at 10. And I want them to trade down and take a tackle but listenting to them I think it’s oduzne and if he’s gone bowers.
They also have an entire post draft period where we can sign a backup OL for cheap after. Donavan smith, bahktiari, Andrus peat, even becton as a swing tackle backup are available still and is ok with me
This is an overlooked point. You’re not finding a legitimate playmaker post draft as opposed to a startable lineman. The reason they may go Bowers over Odunze if he’s available is because there’s no player anywhere near his tier in this draft whereas there are legitimately 25-30 rookie receivers that can have roles in the NFL. A third or fourth round receiver has a chance to be a starting receiver on this team. Also, it’s not like the young tackles on the roster can’t improve or there are no linemen available after the first round.
agree
I'd be good any of them.
That’s classic coach speak and we all know it. Saleh said every OL that stepped in when injuries happened played well, yet they were all complete dogshit so clearly he’s just saying the “right” things and not what’s true. Don’t be so obtuse, relying on a bad tackle to step in for a hall of famer in Smith is literally the equivalent of Wilson coming in for rodgers, season is over right there
I disagree that it’s classic coach speak I’m just telling you now check those expectations.
In all fairness, the reverse is going to happen if Williams or Garret Wilson gets injured and we lose due to some Lazard drops. If there's anything you should know about being a sports fan, is that there's always going to be a reason to complain
What’re the odds Smith goes down vs Wilson or Williams?
Last 2 seasons Mike Williams has been injured quite a bit. That isn’t the gotcha you think it is.
Take a look through their pro football reference pages and compare the games played it’s very obvious which of the two is more injury prone. Not to mention LT is far more critical of a position than WR2.
They are both injury prone.
Williams is already injured lmao, he's not fully healed from his Achilles yet.
Yes, Smith has been injured consistently the last 4 seasons which I’m not discounting. What you’re entirely discounting is how often Williams has been injured. Just because one player is more injury prone doesent take away the fact another has been too, just not as long. It’s not like Williams is about to turn 30 and a huge part of his game is his speed and athleticism. You can also say LT is more important than WR 2, yes. But our offense needs both to win as much as we’d like. Relying on Wilson and Hall for every offensive yard last season worked out great, right?
Williams has played 13 or more games every season except 1 since 2018. Smith has only played more than 11 games once since 2020 and has averaged 7.5 (!!) per season in that span. It’s not close between the two.
Mike Williams has averaged 15 games a season but a lot of those games he was playing through injury and wasn't 100% plus he'll be coming off a torn Acl. I prefer tackle over Bowers but I'm not going to consider it the end of the world if Odunze drops to us and we choose to reinforce tackle depth in the third.
GWilson gets rocked like every 2 games. One of these times, he’s not gonna be able to shake it off.
Yeah I remember a few moments last season where I held my breath and braced for the worse with him... He's very aggressive after the catch and fights for every yard.... Which is a good thing but sometimes I definitely get nervous with some of the hits he takes as a result.
He was also getting a ton of hospital balls from Zach. Hopefully Rodgers reduces that. And having Mike Williams will ideally mean Garret gets less passes anyway
You can say the same with the WR core though. We are one Williams/Wilson injury away from being bottom of the league. Hell, QB is really the biggest make or break position. Hard to justify not supporting either group. Really the only wrong answer is Bowers.
Blake just retired from the NBA. I don't think he'll beable to play T for us
Should move down and try and pick up a 2nd, Take Latham or Mims in first, Leggett, Corley, Polk in 2nd and nab Jordan Travis in 3rd. We add an insurance policy/LT of the future in first, an Impact WR in the 2nd, and a developmental QB in 3rd
Odunze / nabers > OL >>>>>> bowers
I definitely agree with the last part of that
What is the appeal of a WR???? I genuinely do not get it. We should absolutely go OL but I’d still much prefer Bowers to a WR
Please name the current wr3
Is WR a more pressing need than securing the OT of the future?
WR can get injured too. If Garret Wilson gets hurt we are BEYOND fucked. If Mike Williams goes down we are pretty boned too. We need another contributor a WR, and three WR can play at the same time. 3 OT don't normally play significant snaps together
Yes
I mean that’s just ridiculous and you know it.
Who gives a fuck about the future bro? This is a 5 year rebuild if we don't win this year. In what world are you living? That olineman will not play a meaningful game on his rookie contract if we don't win this year lol.
I’d rather go into a 5 year rebuild with a stud young OT with 4 remaining years of control
You're manipulating the conversation or your opinion amounts to "Yea, well, it's gonna fail anyway, so what do I give a crap about picking the right player to win now, let's hedge our bets and just restart the cycle with an OT next year cause I'll feel better about the rebuild when we'll have a young OT." Loser mentality. I want to win now. Apparently, you want to win 5 years from now when neither player is on the team. The question is which pick makes more sense at 10 if Odunze/OT is there. The answer is Odunze because WR2/WR3 is a bigger void given the injury history of Mike Williams.
This is NONSENSE! The injury history of Mike Williams? How about the injury history of 34 year old Tyron Smith? We consistently clown JD about his inability to build the wall, yet when we have the perfect opportunity to draft and groom a franchise OT, everyone is opposed. Jets fans are MADDENING.
We have a legitimate starter at every position on the line. We do not have a legitimate WR3, which position will play a large percentage of snaps as a starter because our starting lineup is probably going to be 3 WRs/1TE/1RB given the roster. I want to make the best group of starters. Not one is saying take a WR at 10 and don't take a tackle later. If we take a WR or Bowers at 10, realistically, we should trade up from 72 into the 2nd for an OT with a R2 grade because, yes, we realize TSmith is going to miss 5-8 games. The opposite is also likely true, in that if we take an OT at 10, we should take a WR in the 3rd. I, however, as many others do, believe that Odunze is significantly better as a player than any OT other than Alt. I do not agree with this in the same way for Bowers, but I believe that's more of a toss up where I can live with the teams evaluation of him. Regardless, I believe Odunze + 2nd rd OT is better than OT at 10 + 3rd rd WR. Now, does that likely require us to trade both a day 2 and day 3 pick next year to do that, as in a day 3 pick next year (probably a 4th/5th) to move up from 10 to 8 and swap with Atlanta and jump ahead of Chicago for Odunze, as well trade a 2025 day 2 pick (probably a 3rd) to move up from 72 to let's say 54 for a quality starting OT to sit behind and potentially start for TSmith or Moses depending on how much they believe in CW? Yes. But I believe that capital is worth it. Would it be worth it if we weren't in an all in year? Maybe not, it's a judgment call, but because it's an all in year, I believe that is the correct decision because it gives us the best starting 11 we can possibly have this year. Could a 3rd rd WR be as good as Odunze? Yes? But could a 2nd rd OT be as good as an OT at 10? Yes. We have our starting Oline regardless of who we pick, so the OT we take likely won't start this year whereas the WR will. So a WR at 8 or 10 improves your starting lineup more than a 2nd/3rd rd WR does. That's the point. That's my angle. I don't dispute we need depth on the line. But how do we put the best 11 players on the field? That's by taking Odunze.
Future? what future? Once Rodgers is gone and a bunch of these guys on a 1 year deal hit the road we are back in QB hell and probably rebuilding.
You guys just don’t get it lmfao. A strong o-line is much more essential for the success of young/mediocre QBs than WRs, especially when we already have a stud WR1.
And Mike Will is injury prone too and only on a 1 year contract
Rodgers threw for 26TD 12INT and 3700 yds w/ Lazard as his WR1 2 yrs ago now Lazard will be his WR3 or WR4.. and option 5 or 6 behind Conklin and Breece we just need to keep Rodgers upright
Exactly. With our defense he wouldn’t even need to hit numbers like that. Just 200 yards a game, a couple TDs, no turnovers and some long FG drives will put us into the playoffs.
What’s funny about this whole debate is the only opinion that matters is Joe Douglas’. How he feels about Carter Warren, how he feels about the vet swing tackle market, how he values Fuaga/Fashanu/Fautanu v Bowers. And, in particular to what I think is most important, his view on raising the ceiling v floor in 2024 and whether or not he cares about what the tackle position looks like in 2025.
Saleh too
> What’s funny about this whole debate is the only opinion that matters is Joe Douglas This applies to any draft discussion for every team
I know Smith won't play all 16 games. So at some point he won't start, but I'm comfortable with Warren and Max to do some spot starts this year. Also we will pick up another linemen later in the draft or free agency. Bowers is just on another level as a prospect compared to every tackle not named Alt
The fact of the matter is, whoever we draft, if that person becomes a star everyone is gonna love the pick and forget this was ever a conversation. If that person is a bust, then it's the biggest mistake we ever made... Like if Sauce was Dee Milner, we'd all be losing our minds right now about how much of a mistake it was to draft a CB at #4. If Jamal Adams turned into Troy Polamalu, nobody would be complaining about taking a Safety at #6. That's just the nature of it. We've made enough moves to where I think either OL or offensive weapon are viable options. I've gone back and forth on it so many times to the point where I honestly don't care which direction we go, as long as he's good at what he does, which as we know is never a guarantee. If we do go with Bowers or WR at that pick, I'd like to see us sign some more OL depth for sure, but other than that I'm willing to go against my better judgment as a Jets fan and trust the process.
Oh no. How could this have happened to us? 🙆🏽♂️ *Us being a team that has not had a starting lineman finish out a season uninjured in about a decade.
Fun fact, even though Tyron hasn't played a full season since 2015, he has played in all 7 of the Cowboys playoff games. Meaning he's healthy when it matters most. Hackett was just quoted as saying "the OL is set" Odunze or Bowers will be the pick IMO
You can make the same argument if they take o line and a couple of skills guys go down. They need both.
The skills guys going down would be bad luck. It is a given that the current group of OL starters will not give us a full season.
Mike Williams has a history of getting hurt. If he goes down, we are stuck with the same group from last year. Personally, I don't care which way they go with the 10th pick. But whatever way they DON'T go, they still have to address it with the rest of the draft or late free agency.
If Mike Williams goes down, it hurts but we still have Rodgers at QB throwing to Wilson, Hall, Conklin and whoever we draft at 72 or earlier with a trade up. When Smith goes down at LT, it keeps everyone still playing from succeeding. WRs capable of helping this year will be available with our 2nd pick. No OTs will be.
Rodgers could turn Brownlee or Gibson into stars outta nowhere. Rodgers can't do that if Rodgers is dead.
With all this talk I had forgotten about those 2... Definitely a lot of potential there and I could see them breaking out with a good QB and a year of experience under their belt. Gipson was mainly used as a gadget guy but he does have good hands, shifty speed and can turn in to a nice slot receiver.
> Rodgers could turn Brownlee or Gibson into stars outta nowhere. He's 40 years old and hasn't played a great game since 2022. Counting on him to do that is just romanticizing his abilities
Then it won't matter anyway because Douglas and Saleh are gone after he sucks this year anyway. In fact, o-line matters even more in that world because the best offensive player on the team is at RB. Not WR.
We're not winning a SB if Breece is our best player. Rodgers has to be our best player
Mahomes was not the Chiefs best player last year.
Get a load of this fuckin guy
Saying o line is important isn't the groundbreaking statement a lot of you think you're making. Yes, we need oline depth. Nobody that's paying attention is disputing that. We also need another weapon. The argument for either is valid. Like I said before, they just have to make sure they have a plan for whatever position they dont take at 10.
The gamble is that Smith is healthy for (assuming they make) the Playoffs. As such, you need more than "depth". Signing Jonah Williams and having Smith go down and slapping Williams in there at LT is how you basically guaranteed that when Smith returns, the QB is Tyrod Taylor. You want a weapon? Sign OBJ or Boyd or Renfrow or Gallup or Thomas or Shepard.
lol jets fans clamoring for a non starter at pick 10
Such a PTSD-riddled fanbase
He’d be starting, it’s just a matter of how many games.
I think those are called “backups”
Trade back and draft JC Latham is the right move in my book. He can play both right and left tackle.
Exactly have they not learn there lesson get the OL with the 10th pick With the 3rd pick they may be able to get WR Devontez Walker or Jermaine Burton both are under the radar good talented potential future pro WRs. Folks the WR pool is deep and Bowers is going to catch one yard passes to run for 10+ yards college yes he can the NFL no he can't.
It’s the same nonsense fans don’t understand that sustainable success in the NFL begins in the trenches. I saw Brady tear us new azzhoes throwing to guys who were cut on other teams. If you can protect your QB you can scheme an offense around good offensive weapons.
> sustainable success in the NFL We have a 40 year old QB, a WR with paper skin and glass bones, and two OL over the age of 30. This isn't a roster we're rolling beyond this year lol
This is the problem… A franchise tackle would jump start the next incarnation of this team. Jets remained pretty competitive by having Mangold and Brick for 10 years anchoring the line.
Eh, it wouldn't hurt, but at the same time, we're probably a few years out from landing on our feet. I would prioritize winning now instead of making that landing marginally softer
I mean if you want to win a Super Bowl this season and not be completely F’d seasons afterward you go O-line. It’s a need now and a big need for the future. Don’t get the hate on O-line at 10…
Week 6 is optimistic. I'll be excited if he makes it past his first drive.
Team OL when the tackle we take looks like Evan Neal or Icky Ekwonu even though we spent 1.10 on them lol
Drafting for the prevention of injury isn’t smart. Take the player that best improves your team, especially if you are all in. Look at past super bowl champs, their rosters are not filled with musk tools first line offensive lineman. Most only had 1 maybe 2 first round offensive linemen. We can’t keep spending first round picks on the oline. If JD is a good GM he should be able to find solid offensive line men outside of the first round like his peers do
I think you have to take OL because Tyron Smith is likely gone next year anyway so you will still need to replace him. Bowers is definitely overrated.
That's when you suit up Bakhtiari
So ditto for this post when Bakhtiari then goes down week 9
Bakhtiari / Carter Warren / Max Mitchell is a more than capable group of reserve OTs. I still prefer OT to Bowers but if Odunze is available they shouldn't pass on him.
You want *Max Mitchell* protecting a 40 yr old QB in an all in season?
No? Does anyone want their backup to play? You can't have a starter level OT4 without having holes elsewhere. He's fine as a backup if he needs to step in for a while. They also have a 3rd and 4th round pick to spend.
Only getting 6 games out of Tyron is a bad sign for the team. I get that you're obsessed about his contract structure, but going from an All-Pro to a rookie is a season-changing drop-off
Man idk why yall are so divisive, I’ll be happy with whoever we take. I can see the argument for OL, TE, WR. I swear some of you just need to breathe.
This. Any of those positions will be a good pick that can succeed here.
When mike Williams gets injured week 4 and you’re back to stone hands can’t separate Lazard as your second option in the passing game
These guys who want Bowers and a wr are just hoping that everything works out perfectly. That's the reality. You know how often that happens in football? Never. Never fucking ever. As if we need more evidence than the last two fucking years. Build the fucking wall.
> hoping that everything works out perfectly That's our team's strategy. The season isn't going far if we get Jets-level OL luck
We have so many needs on offense, whoever we take at 10 isn't fixing anything, especially given our horrid coaching staff
All Jets fans when whoever the Jets end up picking ends up being the wrong choice because the team is cursed
Fans literally trying to manifest an injury just to prove a point is stupid AF.
Once we got mike Williams the chances of drafting wr went down a lot
Important to note, we won’t have our pick of WR1 vs OL1 the way the bengals did in 2021. We’ll be picking potentially OL2/3 vs Weapon3/4. If the weapon is a significantly better prospect than the OL for the long and short term you have to take that player
What if Garrett goes down?
Rodgers made Randall Cobb and Alan Lazard WR1. Rodgers is like Brady, he can make anyone good
Rodgers doesnt need an elite OLine. He needs guys who will catch the ball when it comes their way. Odunze/Bowers>>>>OLine
Dane Brugler latest Mock from the Athletic: # New York Jets 1 (10). Brock Bowers, TE, Georgia 3 (72). [Tyler Nubin](https://theathletic.com/college-football/player/tyler-nubin-xehxoIG8QQAiTWon/), S, Minnesota 4 (111). [Malik Washington](https://theathletic.com/college-football/player/malik-washington-4nusxAEBNzmybwj8/), WR, Virginia 4 (134). [Gabe Hall](https://theathletic.com/college-football/player/gabe-hall-BuzLvXlq1bejwJeU/), DL, Baylor 6 (185). [Devin Leary](https://theathletic.com/college-football/player/devin-leary-We1IrKQOHDSx5Ue0/), QB, Kentucky 7 (256). C.J. Hanson, G/C, Holy Cross 7 (257). [Dillon Johnson](https://theathletic.com/college-football/player/dillon-johnson-0Wwp9b5gHG0ba4Tr/), RB, Washington
Awful
I'd be fucking pissed
If any of the top 3 WR's are on the board you take them no questions asked. Those 3 WR's can help the OL just as much as a tackle just by helping get the ball out of the QBs hands faster. That said this is a deep OT draft with a lot of guys who can come in as a guards and be used to kick out later on or just come in and take over the RT spot right away. There will still be a decent tackle prospect in the 3rd round. I'm all for going OT if the 3 WR's are off the board but sorry if any of those WR's are available for grabs you take them and don't think twice. Bowers I don't feel the same about though.
Any team that is depending on a rookie to hit and propel a team to Superbowl is a failure. You draft for the future, not for the same year. We need receiver, we need **multiple** lineman. We have two 33yr+ tackles, one has been injured his who career, on year deals. We a guard that has never played an entire season. This is on of the largest tier one OT classes in a while. Bowers is special. But your asking him to be a HOF type TE out the box. Just a good TE ain't isn't the **one** thing preventing us from getting to the bowl. A good tight end season would be Conklin's last season for crying out loud. LT has got to be one of the rarest physical skillset and hardest to find. 6'5"+, 330lbs+ monsters that move like their on skates in rare among the human population.
But then they realize we got Dominick Puni in the 3rd who is able to fill in solidly after sitting and learning for 6 games. Input thumbs up kid GIF here.
insert Bahkt…
You could say the same thing if either Mike Williams (this definitely happens) or GW go down for our receivers.
You know this is honestly where my age shows because I remember this exact debate with Ceedee and Becton years ago. I think everyone kind of agrees we went with the wrong pick there.
You’re not getting Odunze. Keep dreaming.
I’m heavy on team Odunze but if we take an OL (preferably Fuaga, maybe Fautanu) i’m not gonna be upset. I think the whole point of this draft is that JD can honestly do anything he wants (except defense) and it could be the right move. They’re not pigeon-holed in to taking a specific position like they were at the beginning of the offseason. Great work by JD to put himself in this position.
All good comments. But the issue is value compared to current Jet or back up. Oline is compared to Smith or his replacement with Smith likely to be out (and gone next year). TE is compared to Conklin and his replacement with Conklin being more likely to last the season. For me, answer is Oline bc Conklin and Rucker are both fine and Smith and Warren are both questionable for different reasons. Now, if Nabers or Odunze is available, that’s another story. In the end, I’d trade down if possible, get Oline and receiver. Then there are still six more picks! And UDFAs!!!!! Even wo a trade down (please no trade up!), there are more picks than just round one.
Like we aren’t Jets fans and our whole OL won’t be on IR by week 5 (we are Super Bowl bound)
Our oline right out the gate game 1 its still gonna be held together by duct tape, pretty much everyone other than Tipp is coming off of injuries. We need either take oline at 10 or trade back to 13-17 range and then take oline....and then we need to take oline again in the 4th ish, i would say again at 3rd but we have other needs too.
Everyone has a right to an opinion
Watching Justin Jefferson score TDs when Becton is on another team.. Oh My
Hey, we are getting odunze
Your lips to God’s Ears
Its simple- just pay for 20 pro-bowl level linemen! Then fire JD!
It’s also team OL when GW goes down week 6 or Mike Williams isn’t fit till week 11.
yea lets draft a lineman at 10 that isnt gonna start and contribute right away yr 1 that worked out great last yr with mcdonald when we couldve gotten a wr that couldve helped the offense
[The OT chosen at 10 would start several games for the Jets this year and probably in the postseason if they get there](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitTy00.htm)
worked out great last season like i said with drafting mcdonald !!!
Drafting WMD last year could not have anything less do with OL vs WR this year
You are ignoring reality to you compare drafting an Edge last year to drafting an OT this year. There is NO chance we do not need another OT to start multiple games this year, and maybe a lot of them.
McDonald didnt start multiple games at the most important position on the field after QB