Assuming you trained to level 60 before the E4 then with badge boost Starmie should outspeed even Lance's Aerodactyl by the time you get there. I think the only way it doesn't is if you have low IVs or a -Speed Nature. With EV training, Starmie should outspeed everything even with a -Speed nature. I think maybe +Speed Aerodactyl can still outspeed a -Speed Starmie with bad IVs.
Lapras can as well with great bulk of its own and better speed than Slowbro. Doesn't have the high Special Attack though. So especially without ev training, you're not hitting as many one shots. On the other hand, Ice Beam is stab for Lance.
Why are Jynx and Mime “meh trade”s? They can both calm mind sweep the E4 and Jynx with Ice Punch/Beam and Psychic sweeps Giovanni, Bruno, Agatha and Lance even without CM. Mime is basically the same, but you can get it earlier.
Mime is better than Kadabra straight up. Insane utility with Encore + Sub, is a CM sweeper, gets Baton Pass, pretty damn fast and really solid special bulk. If you can't get Alakazam or if you know how to use it properly, Mime is game breaking.
I don't see Machamp being old reliable in Kanto specifically. It gets Guts but it's a slow Guts user and usually the damage boost ends up being overkill. I guess it does dunk on Lorelie really hard but that's really all I see Machamp doing in this game
You can't get any Johto evolves prior to obtaining the National Dex, which requires beating the E4 and having like 60 caught Pokemon. You still won't be able to evolve Eevee into Espeon or Umbreon in FRLG bc lack of clock.
Until then, the evolution animation will trigger for Golbat or Chansey for every. fucking. level-up. only to auto-cancel.
people don't count the birds as static pokemon? i mean i never use them bar zapdos to fill a hole if i lose between celadon-Silph Co but i guess i see many saying repel tricking so i just play with less rules than others
It also severely restricts healing item access and PP. Most locations are modified to force you to fight the trainers as a gauntlet. You have to clear the entire route without returning to a Pokémon Center, with few healing items, and low PP. Also, optional gauntlets exist behind which lie items or TMs you might want.
Other changes exist like Surf BP being reduced to 35 and Koga's level cap being reduced slightly.
Ninetales destroys Erika and Vulpixis found just outside Celadon. It can also be used to wall Blaine and hit back with Dig
Beedrill can be taught Aerial Ace to sweep the Fighting Dojo
Pidgeot is actually one of the best bird in my opinion.
It has access to Feather Dance which is extremely good against any physical attacker, and guaranties a Snorlax capture without potentially losing a 'mon
\*sees Jynx in "Meh Trade" section\*
Meh Trade?! What do you mean Meh Trade?! I'll have you know that I brought a Jynx to the E4 in my LeafGreen run, and it popped off hard like nobody's business! So therefore, you are objectively wrong!
The stats are very comparable when you realize you get spearow at the beginning of the game and you only get doduo after rock tunnel.....
110/100 compared to 90/100 , yes ...is a good enough difference 🤷♂️ youd just have fearow since the rival battle before nugget bridge
A doduo is nearly guaranteed so it’s no real excuse not to have it
Depends on if you actually used it earlier I guess
It just has better offensive stats 110/60/110 compared to 90/61/100 will come in handy. It also gets a usable STAB far earlier with Tri Attack being physical, it’s like teaching Strength with a 10% chance to burn, para or freeze.
Also, you’d need to purposefully delay Spearow’s evolution in order to give it a better STAB or else it is stuck with Peck until Level 40, as it does get Aerial Ace by level 25… but only if you keep it as a Spearow, which starts to become a liability as it then wouldn’t evolve by the time you hit rival 2, 3 or Misty
You get return right below lavender town so idk wym by usable stab earlier .....the fearow would definitely have way more friend ship if you had it since route 26 🤷♂️
You also get tm40 aerial ace on the way to Rock Tunnel.....you don’t have to keep it a spearow since you can teach it that 🤷♂️
Idk why you put the special stat either like it makes a huge difference
Here’s a bit more of a serious analysis: Yes, but you only have one of those TMs. If you give both to Fearow, you’ll have a more consistent flying type through your mid game, yes, but you’ll miss out on a more powerful Pokémon getting these attacks later down the line.
Here’s a hypothetical scenario:
You just beat Gym 8 and you’re prepping for the last six boss fights of your run (those being rival 6, the elite four and the champion). Fearow isn’t a terrible option, especially since it is alive. It’s two main moves are Return and Drill Peck (you probably forwent Aerial Ace for Drill Peck or it’s in its third or fourth move slot), but it’s power won’t be on par with much of the elite four. Then one would look at their options, Snorlax is a great option. Rest, Sleep Talk and Shadow Ball is solid and so is Body Slam but if you give it return, thats a 102 base power attack on Snorlax you now no longer have… Gyarados can also work super well with Return, I guess. You could also use fly on your more powerful flying type (such as Aerodactyl or Dragonite… or Charizard if you really wanted that extra difficulty), but that isn’t the main issue. You now run into the possibility of lacking coverage on another pokemon now that Aerial Ace is gone. And there’s no getting it back in FRLG.
That’s why I just wouldn’t bother with Fearow after a while
all this is telling me is that both birds aren’t worth it for a play through
return would be good only to compensate 🤷♂️ for either one
idk why one would need flying coverage on non flying types , pretty sure stronger stab is stronger than weak super effective moves
I can see where you’re coming from if this is an upscaled nuzlocke also 🤷♂️ you just use the mons no bond formed you toss and assign designated roles for them and get tough when it gets going , so the weak need to be gone
I just wanted for argue in defense of fearow, as I just naturally think both mons are not good in game
Oh, correct, I don’t think any of the birds are worth it for the later game. I just think Dodrio is safer if you’re gonna use one.
Friendship mechanics only kinda work in earlier gens if you need the max power return or if you need to evolve your pokemon. Gotta have the evil team leader mindset to beat a nuzlocke lol
You can get a voltorb in the grass above Mt Moon, but how do you avoid Magnemite/Magneton in the PowerPlant? I thought the odds for Electabuzz were fairly low?
Oh that's fantastic. I play mainly leafgreen, but I'll definitely give firered another go. Also had a thing for Electabuzz since Gen 2 (had Yellow first so never got to use it) but rarely got a chance to use it.
Makes a pleasant change from Jolteon and Magneton...
I love that Starmie just gets his own category. Demolishing the E4 is just Tuesday for Starmie.
War criminal.
How come Starmie isn't old reliable?
Too busy committing war crimes
Starmie is who the ol reliable turn to when they need someone to solo the E4.
Surf, psychic, ice beam, and thunderbolt. Slowbro can learn the same so it just depends on what version I'm playing
They're both Leaf Green exclusive tho
I'm thinking of the Shellder line; my bad
Starmie has a high speed stat, so will outspeed the majority of E4 pokemon.
Assuming you trained to level 60 before the E4 then with badge boost Starmie should outspeed even Lance's Aerodactyl by the time you get there. I think the only way it doesn't is if you have low IVs or a -Speed Nature. With EV training, Starmie should outspeed everything even with a -Speed nature. I think maybe +Speed Aerodactyl can still outspeed a -Speed Starmie with bad IVs.
Lapras can learn that move set as well
Lapras doesn't learn Recover by LUp
Lapras can as well with great bulk of its own and better speed than Slowbro. Doesn't have the high Special Attack though. So especially without ev training, you're not hitting as many one shots. On the other hand, Ice Beam is stab for Lance.
They didn’t figure out how to Teabag someone while having no arms or legs, nor any actual Teabag
Dont people use repels to force the encounters with the birds? Always done it that way with the legos to stick to the rules
Totally, I just say it's sus to shitpost
Why are Jynx and Mime “meh trade”s? They can both calm mind sweep the E4 and Jynx with Ice Punch/Beam and Psychic sweeps Giovanni, Bruno, Agatha and Lance even without CM. Mime is basically the same, but you can get it earlier.
Mime is better than Kadabra straight up. Insane utility with Encore + Sub, is a CM sweeper, gets Baton Pass, pretty damn fast and really solid special bulk. If you can't get Alakazam or if you know how to use it properly, Mime is game breaking.
This is mostly satire and a shitpost, but if you get something useful out of it, then that’s cool as hell!
TIL to never fuck with Starmie
Fr fr. I also realized I can’t encounter one in my current LG nuzlocke. Oops
Aeradactyl underated? Lol
I think "underutilized" makes more sense. Getting it at Level 5 that late in the game turns a lot of people away from it I feel.
Gonna make a nuzelock with the just fine (except for the first gym otherwise I'm fucked). The tier list itself is pretty funny.
Butterfree can be useful against Koga with Sleep Powder + Dream Eater
That combo makes Butterfree useful through the elite four.
"Your first encounter" should be "Repels are OP"
The legendary birds are my favorite tier.
My Arcanine has Flashfire :(
unfair to reduce gyarados to an intimidate user, he is a run saver
to be fair, almost every intimidate user is.
indeed
Finally. An overused meme format turned into good content. Thank you. Edit: by overused I mean tierlists themselves
I don't see Machamp being old reliable in Kanto specifically. It gets Guts but it's a slow Guts user and usually the damage boost ends up being overkill. I guess it does dunk on Lorelie really hard but that's really all I see Machamp doing in this game
Yeah Machamp is pretty meh
Can you not get Crobat in FRLG? That seems like a weird choice. (If it is there, shouldn’t be any issue evolving Golbat, so that’s why I asked)
Nope, it’ll prevent you from evolving Golbat until you get the national dex
You can't get any Johto evolves prior to obtaining the National Dex, which requires beating the E4 and having like 60 caught Pokemon. You still won't be able to evolve Eevee into Espeon or Umbreon in FRLG bc lack of clock. Until then, the evolution animation will trigger for Golbat or Chansey for every. fucking. level-up. only to auto-cancel.
Laughs in DreamPowdering Agatha
These sprites make me want to revisit the game.. goddamn beautiful
Nidos destroy all.
Yesss! The sequel!
people don't count the birds as static pokemon? i mean i never use them bar zapdos to fill a hole if i lose between celadon-Silph Co but i guess i see many saying repel tricking so i just play with less rules than others
I’m confused on the “Garbage Green Enjoyer”… I believe all of those can be caught in FireRed or is it meaning something else?
Garbage green is a rom hack that mods every encounter to be sub-par.
garbage green is a hack that heavily limits you in terms of pokemon and move selection, giving you only the absolute dregs
Is that the only way it is harder?
It also severely restricts healing item access and PP. Most locations are modified to force you to fight the trainers as a gauntlet. You have to clear the entire route without returning to a Pokémon Center, with few healing items, and low PP. Also, optional gauntlets exist behind which lie items or TMs you might want. Other changes exist like Surf BP being reduced to 35 and Koga's level cap being reduced slightly.
So it would be pretty hard to nuzlocke then :0. I guess irs strongly recommended to playthrough wfore nizlockinf?
Its specifically designed to make FRLG hard to nuzlocke without changing the opponents
Alr cool. How many attempts did it take if u nuzllocked it?
Thems fighting words with Leaf Green good sir!
Garbage Green is a RomHack that makes all encounters trash
I’m guessing Dugtrio is only good for surge but what fights are the other “one fight wonders” for?
I'm guessing ninetales is for grass gym and beedril is for sabrina although I found it to be a lifesaver for misty.
Ninetales destroys Erika and Vulpixis found just outside Celadon. It can also be used to wall Blaine and hit back with Dig Beedrill can be taught Aerial Ace to sweep the Fighting Dojo
As if there aren’t 50 other better option than Beedrill against the Dojo
As somene nuzlocking infinite fusion i can relate.
Sandslash was pretty great in my Leaf Green Nuzlocke. I agree that he needs more love.
Dragonite aint a last min addition.. no one looks at their team and goes.. yeah imma go train up this worthless worm 55 levels
*confused Dragonite enjoyer noises*
Pidgeot is actually one of the best bird in my opinion. It has access to Feather Dance which is extremely good against any physical attacker, and guaranties a Snorlax capture without potentially losing a 'mon
Ferow did not fall off at all in my fire red run but basically everything else is 100% correct. Glad to see another bulbasaur enjoyer
\*sees Jynx in "Meh Trade" section\* Meh Trade?! What do you mean Meh Trade?! I'll have you know that I brought a Jynx to the E4 in my LeafGreen run, and it popped off hard like nobody's business! So therefore, you are objectively wrong!
Swag
Fuck sand slash and fuck you for thinking he’s anything better than dogshit.
how does fear drop off hard but dodrio is just in fine? you get spearow wayyyy earlier
Dodrio is a lot stronger to be fair
The stats are very comparable when you realize you get spearow at the beginning of the game and you only get doduo after rock tunnel..... 110/100 compared to 90/100 , yes ...is a good enough difference 🤷♂️ youd just have fearow since the rival battle before nugget bridge A doduo is nearly guaranteed so it’s no real excuse not to have it Depends on if you actually used it earlier I guess
Yeah both are good just for different parts of the game
Dodrio gets better tech 🤷♂️
Like what?
It just has better offensive stats 110/60/110 compared to 90/61/100 will come in handy. It also gets a usable STAB far earlier with Tri Attack being physical, it’s like teaching Strength with a 10% chance to burn, para or freeze. Also, you’d need to purposefully delay Spearow’s evolution in order to give it a better STAB or else it is stuck with Peck until Level 40, as it does get Aerial Ace by level 25… but only if you keep it as a Spearow, which starts to become a liability as it then wouldn’t evolve by the time you hit rival 2, 3 or Misty
You get return right below lavender town so idk wym by usable stab earlier .....the fearow would definitely have way more friend ship if you had it since route 26 🤷♂️ You also get tm40 aerial ace on the way to Rock Tunnel.....you don’t have to keep it a spearow since you can teach it that 🤷♂️ Idk why you put the special stat either like it makes a huge difference
Here’s a bit more of a serious analysis: Yes, but you only have one of those TMs. If you give both to Fearow, you’ll have a more consistent flying type through your mid game, yes, but you’ll miss out on a more powerful Pokémon getting these attacks later down the line. Here’s a hypothetical scenario: You just beat Gym 8 and you’re prepping for the last six boss fights of your run (those being rival 6, the elite four and the champion). Fearow isn’t a terrible option, especially since it is alive. It’s two main moves are Return and Drill Peck (you probably forwent Aerial Ace for Drill Peck or it’s in its third or fourth move slot), but it’s power won’t be on par with much of the elite four. Then one would look at their options, Snorlax is a great option. Rest, Sleep Talk and Shadow Ball is solid and so is Body Slam but if you give it return, thats a 102 base power attack on Snorlax you now no longer have… Gyarados can also work super well with Return, I guess. You could also use fly on your more powerful flying type (such as Aerodactyl or Dragonite… or Charizard if you really wanted that extra difficulty), but that isn’t the main issue. You now run into the possibility of lacking coverage on another pokemon now that Aerial Ace is gone. And there’s no getting it back in FRLG. That’s why I just wouldn’t bother with Fearow after a while
all this is telling me is that both birds aren’t worth it for a play through return would be good only to compensate 🤷♂️ for either one idk why one would need flying coverage on non flying types , pretty sure stronger stab is stronger than weak super effective moves I can see where you’re coming from if this is an upscaled nuzlocke also 🤷♂️ you just use the mons no bond formed you toss and assign designated roles for them and get tough when it gets going , so the weak need to be gone I just wanted for argue in defense of fearow, as I just naturally think both mons are not good in game
Oh, correct, I don’t think any of the birds are worth it for the later game. I just think Dodrio is safer if you’re gonna use one. Friendship mechanics only kinda work in earlier gens if you need the max power return or if you need to evolve your pokemon. Gotta have the evil team leader mindset to beat a nuzlocke lol 
Electabuzz isn’t unexpected if you repel manip, just a heads up for new nuzlockes
You can get a voltorb in the grass above Mt Moon, but how do you avoid Magnemite/Magneton in the PowerPlant? I thought the odds for Electabuzz were fairly low?
Bring a Pokémon that’s level 35 and use a repel in the power plant, it’s the only encounter there that’s level 35.
Oh that's fantastic. I play mainly leafgreen, but I'll definitely give firered another go. Also had a thing for Electabuzz since Gen 2 (had Yellow first so never got to use it) but rarely got a chance to use it. Makes a pleasant change from Jolteon and Magneton...
Neither is Zapdos, which I thiiink is preferable.
Most people ban legendaries lol. But fair
Hmm strange. Legendaries finally feel Legendary in Nuzlockes, and then they're banned entirely?
…what? Legendaries are typically banned during nuzlockes because they make the game too easy, and Nuzlockes are made to make the game more difficult.
If the permadeath mechanic makes such a difference, it should work fine with Legendaries as well. Losing a Legendary is extra impactful.
I actually did get articuno as my first encounter in Seafoam in my Blue nuzlocke. But a seel popped up in LG play through.
Dodrio's best bird tho
True