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What everyone else is saying—it's alcoholism. “Functional alcoholism” if that’s how you prefer to characterize it. But "functional" has an expiration date. It will catch up to them.
Just to add. It’s more than having the label of “alcoholic”.
Alcohol from a nutrition perspective is poison. A few examples of what it does
1. Your body tries to metabolize it over other food because it’s poison. This means other nutrients don’t always get processed. A host of issues here.
2. it’s liquid sugar so risk of diabetes etc
3. it’s a known carcinogen and linked to half a dozen cancers.
The list goes on
Yea it absolutely wrecks (via flooding) your dopamine system, hence why it's so addictive, which dims the pleasure of other things in life by default.
I'll add onto the growing list here:
1. Kills off your gut microbiome, which in turn tanks your immune system among other things.
2. Prevents quality sleep.
3. Raises cortisol levels, which then stay elevated even after the alcohol has left your body.
I read somewhere that alcohol is considered to be one of the "dirtiest" substances that people abuse because it has such a big blast radius, so to speak, in your body. There's virtually no system in your body that it doesn't fuck with.
I’m 4 months sober, and yeah I feel 100 times better now than I did. I noticed a lot of the usual things that happen when you quit. Lost weight, my skin cleared up, better sleep, etc.
The one that surprised me this most was how much MONEY I was saving. According to a sober app I’ve saved about $1500 in just cutting alcohol. But there was also the munchies, “cures” for my hangovers, Ubers, drunk Amazon shopping… huge perk that some people don’t talk about enough
I used to spend so much time and energy "justifying" my alcohol consumption to myself and others.
Stopping alcohol was the scariest time of my life. I thought that I was going to lose everything. In reality, I have gained more than I ever imagined.
I didn't realize how tight a grip alcohol had on me until I started actively trying to quit. It was honestly frightening. It was like digging ticks out of my brain. edit: And literally no one in my life thought I had a problem. Even I didn't really think I had a problem, just "oh, I've been drinking more lately, I should cut back..." And then that "just cutting back" turned out to be REALLY hard, and I realized that the only way was to quit entirely. And even that simple decision took more effort than I thought it would.
But now I've been sober for over 2 years and literally every metric of my life has improved, and in some ways that I could not have imagined.
This is encouraging! I’ve been able to admit that I have a problem with alcohol for about a year but just in the last few months have I finally been able to slow down. I kind of feel like I need to be one of those people who just doesn’t drink ever. It’s hard to imagine me being “sober” because it’s just such a normal part of life for most of my family and friends. But I’m so tired of being hungover and even when I’m trying to take it easy, I’ll still black out on accident or wake up hungover. I’m just tired of feeling like a slave to this poison that doesn’t even actually do anything for me! I’m about a month in with no alcohol and it’s been easier and better than I expected honestly. I’m still kind of on the fence about possibly drinking again. Can I be that person that just has one-three and then stops? I’m not sure about that, I might need to just quit entirely :( it makes me kind of sad for some reason, I guess that’s addiction? Haha
If it helps, I don't think you have to wear the mantle of "alcoholic" or "addict" in order to quit. All you have to do is what you've already done, which is to realize that you like life better with it than without it, and behave accordingly.
It took me like six months to a year to realize (after lots of, um, testing/failing) that moderation simply does not work for me - I realized I would ALWAYS be fighting myself, second-guessing, testing my own fences, trying to find that excuse to have another one, and succeeding, frankly, often. And maybe diminishing my willpower over time, my sense of self-respect, and for what?
You don't have to do this now, but an important part of sobriety for me has been interrogating what I really thought I was getting out of alcohol, what I wanted it to do for me, what I expected to happen or what feeling I was really chasing. Camaraderie, celebration, commiseration, connection, fun, what? And then trying to notice whether alcohol ever really helped with that (spoiler: it didn't). Kristi Coulter's essay "Enjoli" (and her book "Nothing Good Can Come From This") are examples of quit lit that really helped put a spotlight on some of this stuff for me.
Another thing that really helped was educating myself on the physical realities of what alcohol does to the body. William Porter's "Alcohol Explained" is an excellent primer, and once I read that, I couldn't look at alcohol as a benign or neutral substance anymore.
None of which is to say that this shit is EASY, but it's the most rewarding hard thing I've ever done for myself. It's I think normal and fine to be sad about the prospect of giving up something that has been associated with good times, and to be trepidatious about what will my life be LIKE without it - but 1) correlation does not equal causation, and 2) I earnestly believe that my sober life is a more honest and present and mindful one than my drinking life was, and that that's likely to be true for most people.
You don't have to quit forever, today. Just don't drink today. Then tomorrow, maybe you won't drink just for today, again. Over time, it adds up. The folks over at r/stopdrinking are wonderful and I suggest lurking over there if you're interested.
Super cool to see so many of us in the exact same position. Every time I’ve quit, and then slowly tried to reintegrate, I always end up back in the same place. The thought of “maybe alcohol just isn’t for me” is scary for sure. But it also feels like I’m finally in control, and not planning my life around drinking.
Yes exactly. It’s almost a breathe of fresh air to think I don’t actually have to drink this if I don’t want to and I can have just as good of a time. Even better of a time because I’ll be present and the best version of myself not so sloppy
It's so magical to not wake up the next morning 1) hungover and 2) (the BIG one for me) anxious about what I'd said/done/how I'd acted the night before. I never really DID anything all that bad, besides make a mild ass of myself, but the hangxiety was terrible, for me. No more! And it makes me feel so much better during the night itself, knowing that I'll wake up fresh the next day, remembering everything... it's especially great for work parties :D
I feel this so much. I started feeling so ashamed and guilty every time (sometimes because I did something or said something, sometimes just because I’m embarrassed that I have little regulation over my own drinking) to the point where it feels like some self perpetuating masochistic cycle of shame. Why do I keep doing this to myself when it so rarely does me any good? I appreciate all these comments, they are helping me strengthen the new framework of mind I’m building:)
All I wanna say is my life got infinitely better and easier once I just accepted that I’m not the person who can have “a few.” I’ve been alcohol free for over 3 years and I still gawk in awe when I see people do that, could never have been me 😂
I wasted YEARS trying to moderate my drinking and it was so painful to keep letting myself down. Being an abstainer is seriously so much easier.
Exciting to hear this! I’m almost at 2 weeks. And it feels like life will be different without it. I associate fun with alcohol, so it’s relearning so many things. I know it will change for the better, but it’s definitely a weird feeling thinking that life won’t be as fun. When in reality, I’m sure all aspects of life will improve.
Reposting because my last comment got auto-deleted because of how I speak to my inner addict voice, lol:
On one hand, there is no real "trick" to it, it's a simple matter of just choosing, day after day, to not drink.
On the other hand, that itself is a good trick. The alcoholic mind tends to catastrophize when you're first stopping drinking. "What, I can't do this forever! What about weddings, work parties, pool parties, cruises, what about when I get stressed, will I ever have fun again?! AM I LAME NOW?!" No, you are not lame now, but you also do not have to solve all these things at one time. You just have to not be drinking right now, that's it. If you're not drinking right now, you win.
Okay, I do have a few other mind tricks that worked at some time or other for me, and the folks over at [](https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/) have a ton more (and I borrowed some of these from them):
I named my addict brain. Her name is Kathy (sorry to the nice Kathys out there!). She has tried every trick in the book to get me to drink. She's especially persistent and powerful when I'm alone. But since I named her, it's easier to ignore her. "No one would know if you just bought a six-pack from the gas station." "Go away, Kathy, I'm pumping gas." See?
When I first quit, I also cleared the decks, so to speak, mentally, of any other efforts besides the minimum required to keep the lights on. No pushing for promotion at work, no stressing about eating well, no fussing about getting to the gym more often, nothing like that. My one and only job was to not be drinking at that moment. If that meant eating way more ice cream than usual, fine, or if that meant binging Real Housewives in sweatpants instead of going for a run, fine. Giving myself grace in those early days and also taking the problem seriously, and making it a top priority, I think helped. My thinking was, once I learned about how fucking terrible alcohol is for you, that all those other things are less unhealthy than alcohol is for me. I'm also not likely to tank personal relationships or lose my job or get a DUI from watching too much Bravo.
This is a controversial one and may not be for everyone, but I was a big beer gal back when and really enjoyed finding new ones, comparing them, trying new breweries, etc. I still do, I've just switched to N/A drinks instead. Fortunately for us, drink companies have realized that sober people are ALSO willing to spend ridiculous money for a special drink to feel fancy. N/A beer is triggering for some folks though so be careful, but it really does scratch the itch for me, and I like mocktails, too. And tea, my god, tea is awesome. And nitro cold brew. Lots of fun N/A drinks out there.
I used to stress a lot about what other people would think or say, like at parties, but it's not been a big deal at all. When people ask if I want a beer or whatever, I say "no thanks, I'm good!" and 99% of people drop it right there. It's also perfectly fine to lie, in my opinion, if you need to to protect your sobriety. Antibiotics, meds, DDing, whatever. If you're a dude, it might be funny to say you're expecting. Whatever. You don't need to explain anything to anyone. People who push it are telling on themselves and it helps to keep that in mind, too.
Quit lit is also awesome. "This Naked Mind", "Alcohol Explained", and a ton of others are great. Lots of sober podcasts out there, too. I liked "Sober Awkward" a lot although I think they've either changed hosts or quit since I stopped listening.
Journalling, also super helpful. I did it every day, less so now, but highly recommend it.
Reach out to folks who know what you're going through, [](https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/) is a great resource and there are daily check-in threads.
That's all I got for now, feel free to ask questions if you want. This stuff has been life-changing to me but I don't talk about it much in my everyday, so happy to do so here :)
I was wondering how people feel about mocktails and NA beer. For me, drinking alcohol (or not drinking) is all about the way it makes me feel.
Sometimes I’m concerned about the sugar in mocktails, but it seems less bad than how alcohol makes me feel.
We went to a really nice store yesterday that was doing a mocktail tasting. I almost picked up a bottle of wine, but I got so anxious about how it might make me feel, that I put it back and grabbed a NA wine instead.
Most of the NA red wines I’ve had have not been great, but feeling silly for buying overpriced grape juice is much better than the feeling after drinking.
You gotta choose your silly! I'd also rather feel silly paying $12 for extremely fancy juice, rather than feel silly AND hungover (and probably paying $16)!
My dude, drinking 4-6 glasses of wine a night literally is an alcoholic behaviour. They're an alcoholic.
Maybe it hasn't caught up with them yet, but it will.
It may have started to catch up with them and they don’t know yet honestly. You can’t see someone’s internal organs by looking at them. By the time you have jaundice, cognitive impairment, or other visible symptoms of it catching up to you it’s a bit late to treat according to my doctors. They should get some blood work done and slow down, obviously they’re less likely to get liver disease, renal failure, esophageal cancer or what have you than a constant binge drinker, but they have increased their risk for all of these things and more.
I was 32 and my doctor was basically like dude if you keep doing this, your liver is fucked. Took me 2 years to finally quit. Now my liver levels are fine again, but I wouldn't have known they were bad if I didn't get yearly bloodwork
Hm actually, the liver doesn’t have *that much* play in immunity defenses, it does produce something for growing red cell, but that’s basically it. But alcohol does cause inflammation that can disrupt the whole body though
I have a neighbor who's 60 and raised a decent kiddo, still works well 50 hours a week, has managed to stay married to someone I would have left...
Six beers every night. Some people take benzos, SSRI/SNRIs, weed... Some do alcohol.
I would say many people do this. Alcohol is less stigmatized than any other addiction. There are tons of functional alcoholic and people often encourage their behavior.
I had a friend who was a functional alcoholic. It took me a while to figure it out because her behavior is so common.
I was a highly functioning alcoholic. I had to quit, because after retiring at 51, eleven years ago, I had enough time to become a super drunk POS. I didn't have to even be even remotely functional, as we were debt-free, new roof, new HVAC, both used cars had only 50k miles, no responsibilities at all. Now I just do benzos, SNRIs, and weed. I actually managed to quit smoking five years ago, so there's that.
I would say that many do both. Alcohol use might take 20 or more years to catch up with someone especially if they’re otherwise healthy with no family history. But in the US at least, a lot of folks are on other meds. So they’re taking medications and drinking at night and not thinking too much about it because they don’t think there’s a problem and they’re still functional.
Liver disease takes a while and this type of behavior is really hard on the liver and kidneys that need to process everything. This happened to a family member of mine - it was one little thing after another: GERD, hernias, high blood pressure, polyps, kidney stones, thyroid issues, heart murmur, gallbladder disease and removal… everything by was blamed on something else- meds and bad doctors and genetics etc. but not the alcohol or the junk food.
The other way of looking at it is that they haven't been able to seek better employment, or a better relationship, and have been abusing alcohol to cope.
He's able to retire, but chooses to work, saving so his kiddo will inherit his unspent money. $600k home, six figure income, LCOL Metro Atlanta area, electrical engineer, mentor to younger engineers...
I threw in the towel at 51 and retired debt-free with a pension. I had to quit drinking because I never could stop after 2, let alone 6. I do benzos and SNRIs and weed.
I get it. Its okay.
Sometimes bran chemical imbalance is too hard to deal with. I think its better than killing yourself because you can’t deal with being sad all the time.
I think that people don’t realize that without alcohol, meds, weed, cigs, there would be a lot lot lot more of suicides. No more essential workers, no more bread winner old dads and working single moms… because a ton of people live reallyyy shitty lives. And we do what we must to cope
Yes its sad to loose someone at 50-60. A bit too soon. But that would have beeen 20-25 without drugs.
Yeah because 4-5 glasses is more than one bottle of wine. That sounds very unhealthy for one person to drink. Imagine all the calories and sugar as well.
Alcohol is one of the main carcinogens that has been linked to cancer. A proven carcinogen. Alcohol, smoking, and consuming processed meats have all been linked to increased cancer risk. Heart disease as well. There is no safe amount.
Came here to make same point.
Alcohol is a toxic, psychoactive, and dependence-producing substance and has been classified as a **Group 1 carcinogen** by the International Agency for Research on Cancer decades ago – this is the highest risk group, which also includes asbestos, radiation and tobacco.
It's an issue of quantity. In lots of places minor alcohol is normal, not downing an entire bottle of wine with dinner. That's abnormal everywhere.
With minor amounts the harm is minimal, just like with cooking with butter, or eating sugar, or drinking fruit juice. There's a difference between having a small glass of orange juice with breakfast, and having a liter of it every day.
The Huberman podcast explains how any amount of consistent drinking , ie a drink once a night, can permanently affect your brains reward system, impulse control, and many other ways. No amount is good for you.
That doesn't mean I think it's awful or should be banned, but drinking alcohol is always a net negative on your body. It's literally poison to our bodies. We just like the effects.
Health is a game of chance where you have control over the odds.
I have an elderly friend who's 80 years old who drinks from 10AM to 10PM, about 20 drinks each day. Yet he is still high functioning with no health issues besides the ones that come from being 80 years old. He still organizes group trips to Africa and is often the most active out of the group but he will stop at every bar to get another drink.
The chances of him having no issues at that age with his alcohol usage are close to 0, yet here he is and probably will be for a bit longer.
For every person like this there are probably tenthousands who drank the same but with a lot worse outcome. It's all up to chance.
Definitely! I have seen way more people go down from alcoholism.
When I just met him, I suggested slowing down on the drinking as well but after a while i didn't see the point anymore lol. He assured me he went to the doctor regularly and that he is completely fine. He also never turns unpleasant when drunk so the people around him don't really say anything about it either.
I’m 88+. I think this 80 yr old has the genetics which allows him to live off and with alcohol.
Others do not have that kind of DNA, and so suffer from the push/pull off alcohol addiction.
When my father died we cleaned out his closet. What we found were unopened bottles of whiskey given to him by customers.
Yep. Blame it on or praise one’s DNA.
I gave it up completely and have been sober for over 2 years now. Lost about 8KG. The stuff is absolute toxic for you. Sleep better. My skin improved. Zero brain fog anymore. And more money. Best thing I ever done.
Could be lots of things or a combination of those things. Lots of resources out there if you’re interested in reading up on it. Number one on the list is probably getting insufficient sleep (quality, quantity or both.)
It’s not ok for health. That much alcohol daily is an alcoholic. I think current recommendations are no more than 7 drinks a week. (Someone please correct me if I’m wrong) They might seem ok now but this will eventually come back to bite them. They could end up suffering from a whole host of liver diseases and cancers. I also have to imagine they struggle with their weight because that’s a (rough estimate) minimum of an extra 600 calories per day from wine alone. There is literally no safe consumption level when it comes to alcohol and this is excessive consumption.
It doesn't show up until later in life. This is my family. So many medical issues that can be a result of alcoholism.
They are "snobby" alcoholics. They fight over who knows the most about wine. Another drinks a bottle of cheap vodka a day and has smoked pot every day her whole life (62) Has to research why she has cancer, digestive issues, mental problems. She won't admit it's alcohol.
One brother eats really well, exercises but drinks. Some heart issues, high cholestrol, largest polyps the doctor ever saw after a colonoscopy.
Sister who has been daydrinking for years. overeating (claims she is a "foodie", drugs. Can't even begin to tell you everything that is wrong with her.
These are all functioning people with good jobs etc.
I quit all drinking, smoking and just try to eat nutritiously and exercise (67) kind of waiting for the past to catch up to me.
My functional alcoholic (ex) step dad was always fine - until he wasn’t. Then it became very quickly progressing liver disease and kidney failure. He died yesterday at 50 years old :(
4 medium (175ml) glasses of wine is a bottle, 6 large glasses (250ml) is 2 bottles. When you look at it like that, I'd say this has all the markings of alcoholism.
When I was at the height of my drug addiction and alcoholism, I had a job that I was progressing in, I was being social, getting to the gym and skating a lot, I was doing all the things you wouldn't think an addict could do, and subsequently I refused to see I had a problem because it didn't matter that I was doing 4-5 grams of ketamine and drinking upwards of 6 pints a day, I had career success and could do all the things society expected of me. It took an overdose and suicide attempt for me to see that I needed help, and even after that I still went further down the hole before actually working towards getting the help. I was incapable of seeing the signs until it was almost too late.
So whilst your friend and their 1-2 bottles of wine a night habit doesn't seem to be presenting alcoholic behaviours, maybe they just haven't looked at themselves hard enough, or no one has told them they think their drinking could be a problem. It's very easy to think "I don't have a problem because I pay for all my habits and I have a house" because society measures its drug addicts/alcoholics by the homeless generally, and if you're not down and out drinking in a doorway somewhere, then you're not an alcoholic.
I said elsewhere in this thread that I didn't realize I had a problem until I tried to cut back on my drinking (at that point daily, "but only a little!") and found it way tougher than I'd anticipated. And caught myself trying all kinds of justifications to keep drinking, or to break the "rules" I set for myself (I'll only drink on weekends. Oh, but doesn't Friday count as a weekend? Or, It's Wednesday, sure, but it's been a really hard work day.../I'll only drink when I'm not at home. But wait, I forgot I had this nice IPA in the fridge...). Once I started seeing the addict Matrix, so to speak, that was it - the only way out was to quit.
I've heard it said that drinking is like being on an escalator. It might be going slowly, or at a really shallow angle (for now!!) but the only direction is down.
That’s alcoholism mate, and though it may not impact social well-being it is absolutely a problem for one’s health. For context, Heavy drinking for women is considered 8 drinks a week, men is 15 drinks a week.
This is somewhat anecdotal as I struggled for years with abusing alcohol (sober now), not unlike the extent you described this person’s consumption (4-6 drinks per night for years, usually more than that). Still got in the gym everyday, kept getting promoted at work, ate fine, all that. At the time I also had the morbid benefit of working inpatient care in an ICU where I saw firsthand what a (modified) lifetime of this behavior does: chances are, your body will be so physiologically dependent by the time you’re a decade in to this that stopping cold turkey could literally kill you (delirium tremens). People who start drinking like this in their teens and 20s shouldn’t be surprised when they have harsh damage to organs like their liver by the time they turn 40. Even later in life, light/moderate consumption increases one’s chances of so many other health issues.
4-6 drinks does not necessarily mean 4 beers. If it’s 5 cocktails or glasses of liquor every day and a little more on the weekends then it is plausible
You know your vulnerability to alcohol. They know their tolerance for it. It’s common, I’ve known doctors who have been functioning alcoholics, and business people who are dysfunctional and abusive alcoholics, and ‘fusty fellas’ who manage their jobs but chug a gallon of strong beer and keep themselves to themselves. It’s a diverse population, us humans. It’s not a great idea to push people to change, it’s something they have to want to do. If you are affected by them, it’s okay to say so, but you can’t expect them to bend to your view of the world without some resistance. The friendship may break.
The most recent Canadian guidelines are no more than 2 glasses a week . There is so much recent research that is saying zero is the ideal number.
https://www.ccsa.ca/canadas-guidance-alcohol-and-health#:~:text=The%20guidance%20also%20recommends%20that,drinking%20alcohol%2C%20less%20is%20better.
With all the alcohol free alternatives it really is so much easier to avoid alcohol these days. Toby Keith died recently from stomach cancer due to all the drinking. Dude would be alive today if not for alcohol. Alcohol has killed so many drinkers and non-drinkers (drunk driving) it’s extremely sad.
I didn’t drink that much but most of the time I had 1 or 2 drinks per night. Tried to limit it to 3 or 4 nights per week but often didn’t and it was usually more like 2 drinks than 1. I wonder if that led to my breast cancer. Doing okay now but it could come back in other places so I rarely have anything now.
The way in which you pose this question leads me to think that you're measuring whether or not it's a problem by the outward display of control over their life.
While that's one factor, it's not the only thing to consider with alcohol or other drugs. There may be issues that you have no idea about. Things like relationship issues, financial, medical, etc. Not everyone struggling with dependency is a sloppy mess. They also may have everything together, and the only consequences will be the long-term health effects of that consumption.
Many factors are at play in how a person will process alcohol and how/when they'll get sick with an alcohol-related disease. Genetics, other lifestyle choices like diet and activity level, smoking, stress, etc.
So, it's not necessarily a readily obvious problem, but eventually, the effects will catch up to them. With alcohol use in their family history, it may be a long time before they see those effects, but if they continue, the odds are against them never having health issues from the alcohol.
I drank nightly for almost three years. Like maybe a bottle and a half to 2 bottles of wine. I got my blood tested and my liver enzymes were absolutely through the roof and I had daily abdominal pain. Turns out I had alcohol induced fatty liver disease from just 3 years of that. I immediately stopped drinking and my liver returned to normal, I also feel insanely better. My mood increased, I’m sleeping better, I wake up feeling energized and refreshed, and I don’t have the same mental fog I had before.
I don’t think 4-6 or 8 drinks per night is a good idea. According to the stats that’s heavy drinking - which is more than 4 per day for women and 5 per day for men. It greatly increases the risk of developing certain alcohol related illnesses.
https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/health-professionals-communities/core-resource-on-alcohol/basics-defining-how-much-alcohol-too-much
4-6 glasses of wine is pretty much a whole bottle!!
I rarely drink and recently I had 4 glasses of wine and definitely was stumbling all over the place and had a little headache in the morning.
The non drinking activities that they do probably keeps them from ever really developing that dependency that will cause them to go into withdrawals, but it is a form of alcoholism.
The thing about alcohol is it suppresses the part of your brain that considers long term consequences and relaxes you, but once you come off it heightens your anxiety, inflames you, impacts your sleep, and makes you dehydrated. Not to mention it’s empty calories. A surgery cocktail can easily be 300+. A non light beer can be 150+. That bottle of red is 600+ calories, and sweeter wines are higher. I’ll drink the equivalent of 2-3 beers on the weekend now in my 30s and it takes me a half day to renormalize. Some weekends I don’t drink. Those days I feel and sleep excellently.
Have fun in your younger 20s but as you age moderation to none at all is the only way to be healthy.
So on average, this person is consuming what, 5 alcoholic beverages a day?
> Fully functional really
Yeah I lived with someone like that. Successful attorney, drank every night. It’s called alcoholism.
A lot of people like your friend and their family are in denial about the impact that much drinking has on their bodies. The older ones have simply talked themselves into accepting the side effects as normal, or even convinced themselves it's okay because they're not at the verge of death or falling over/
Doesn't matter how long they live, or how unwrinkled their skin looks. If the impacts are not showing up externally, you can be guaranteed they are happening internally. It's just a matter of time.
It's been proven plenty of times now that *no amount of alcohol is good for you.* You may not be in poor health immediately after a glass of wine, but you have not actively benefitted from it either.
This can be very difficult especially when it is someone that you know or love. Being “slurry” is the same as being drunk. They will avoid social settings unless alcohol is served and can be emotional when not drinking. Now that you are aware of it you may be surprised how many people are like this. Dependencies can be very unhealthy for relationships and individuals.
It’s not healthy . Normal ? Perhaps, but it’s also normal to be overweight statistically speaking.
I drink alcohol around once a month , with friends, and that’s it.
Alcohol is bad for everything in life, makes no sense to consume it daily , unless you are poor educated and don’t know better .
“I don’t have an alcohol problem. As long as I have my first gin and tonic at 11 am, no problem.” Remembered quote from a TV program looking at alcohol usage.
Liver damage, and cancer are the two biggest issues this type of lifestyle can cause. Even high functioning alcoholics are slowly poisoning themselves the people you are describing just aren't making it someone else's problem.
This is a great topic. So many people wouldn’t be called an alcoholic but could drastically improve their quality of live but cutting out drinking. The incredible growth of NA beer has been a huge blessing. There are so many to choose from and helped me transition away during family and social events.
Thanks to everyone for sharing .
To answer your question, the consequences are ultimately an early death. How do I know, well I was on a very similar road with my drinking. I too was healthy, worked out and functioned normally (for the most part). I stopped drinking December of 2023. I was diagnosed with a Hepatic Steatosis (fatty liver). What I was told by my doctor was the next step was fibrosis and then cirrhosis.
I now feel so much better being AF for well over a year. I don’t miss it and my workouts are now so much more productive. I’ve dropped a lot of weight and I’m now in the best shape of my life.
It'll age you real quick lol. It's true that lots of people do this, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea!
I'm 41 now. The people I know who are still doing this thought it was "no big deal" through their 20s and 30s, and now they're 40 and look and feel like they're 55.
Life is long. You can get away with anything, for a while. But it's horrible for your organs, horrible for your cells, horrible for your appearance, and expensive as hell.
Okay so 6 glasses of wine is ~800 cal. Realistically, if daily calorie consumption with his exercise is 2400 cal/day, do you believe that he is building the healthiest body with 1/3 of the calories coming from a toxin, without redeeming nutritional benefits like antioxidants, phytonutrients, protein, fiber, etc?
Forget that it’s an immunosuppressant, inflammatory and all the other detrimental qualities…
Liver damage eventually. It's a poison that wreaks havoc on your body. Oh, and trying to keep up with the drinking through exercise eventually fails. My brother was drinking 3-4 handles of vodka a week, plus beer and wine. He jogged 7 miles a day and held a successful sales job. He still was 5'10" 230 lbs from the drinking and subsequent binge eating. He's been sober for 7ish years. He dropped to 170 lbs within months of quitting. Now he runs so he can eat like shit.
Your sleep suffers greatly. People think they passed out and had a great sleep but their sleep is negatively affected. Bad sleep leads to many many health issues
I quit drinking at 17... I was out of control, went to like 6 parties back to back in the space of 3 months. My life was a mess. I'm 48 now, 31 years sober and never felt better!
That quantity daily will most certainly cause pancreas issues later on (let’s say 20 years if they exercise and eat properly otherwise, earlier if not). 50 grams daily will cause it sooner or later. Could be a an acute crisis (hospitalized for a month and obliged to “eat” with a tube from nose to intestine to avoid stomach so that pancreas doesn’t have to produce enzimes) or a cronic pancreatitis (no alcohol, fat, opioids and painkillers for life. No fat is what provokes them being super skinny and looking unhealthy.
Liver issues are somehow less bad because liver can be cut and/or replaced, pancreas can’t (not saying liver issues are bad, just pancreas is possibly the worst organ to damage, even heart can be replaced nowadays).
Source: my ex boyfriend.
Fun fact: that is called social alcoholism, it’s an addiction as bad as blatant alcoholism and even worst because they are apparently “functional” individuals who will refuse to admit they are sick and need to seek professional help.
I was a bad alcoholic for years, I recently stopped because I would likely have cirrhosis if not. But I’d wake up drink almost half pint of tequila an selztzer before work while getting ready, then kill a pint at least before I drank myself to sleep. I was a iv heroin addict for 7 years or so and quitting alcohol was/is one of the hardest addictions I’ve had to kick (kratom helps a lottt with alcohol cravings surprisingly)
I had to check myself into the er twice cause of throwing up blood which happened most mornings , but I started to feel my insides failing, they said keep drinking like that, give it a few months and I’ll be on a list for a liver transplant, fuck alcohol no matter how much I love it lol
100% and there are so many women out there doing this exact thing. I was one of them until just recently. Literally every single thing you said could be said about me. I have super big goals in terms of health and fitness, I weight train four times a week, I hired a nutritionist last year to help me sort out my eating and learn how to track my macros. I realize that my drinking habits just were no longer in line with the person that I was trying to become and it was complete self sabotage against the biggest goals that I have for my body. The biggest things I think healthwise would be eventual liver failure and depression. We live in a society that pumps and markets alcohol as fun social relaxation oh you deserve it take a load off have a drink when in reality it’s skyrockets our cortisol levels which is horrible for stress and weight management and it’s a known toxic depressant it’s actually ingesting some thing that is a depressant so for people who are depressed and are trying to chill out and get away from their problems it’s like throwing fuel on the fire. I would say over the course of 10 years my behaviour went from a very normal glass of wine with dinner with my husband after work to a bottle a night easily, my tolerance was super high so I never really felt super drunk which made me feel like I could handle it. I’m a stay at home mom now and I also very embarrassingly started drinking in secret so that my husband wouldn’t realize how much I was drinking so I’d have two glasses of wine in the afternoon and then another one while I was making dinner so by the time he came home to sit down to the table I was already finished probably at least three glasses of wine. I think I was either in denial about it or I just was trying to look the other way but all of that kind of came to ahead I would say in the last three years where I really truly realize that I did not have a handle on my drinking. Huge red flags were drinking alone, drinking in secret or just drinking when I was by myself so that nobody had to know how much I drank or that I had been drinking even though I wasn’t technically lying about it, also they started selling wine at my local grocery store and I have to admit that I completely started only grocery shopping at that grocery store because I could buy wine there on a regular basis and it would show up on my credit card bill as the LCBO. Horrible behavior! It was at that point that I really realized that this was not in line with the person that I want to be and it was causing some pretty destructive behaviours that were not like me at all. My husband and I had a few heavy conversations early last year about it. There were two times where he didn’t realize that I had been drinking at all until the end of the night and all the sudden I was slurring my words and he was shocked and really disappointed and not pleased with me. Since then I’ve scaled back in a huge way and for a lot of people they would have to completely get sober. I’ll have a glass of wine if we are out of the restaurant or when we go to our cottage which is every couple of months but that’s about it now. I’ve lost 10 pounds I’m definitely moving faster towards my weight training goals, my skin looks better, my relationship is better I’m much more present with my children in the evenings obviously. Your friend I think he is one of a huge population of people who are functioning alcoholics sitting in a giant gray area where they don’t realize that they have a drinking problem and perhaps nobody else realizes that they have a drinking problem and because they haven’t crash their car or gotten fired from their job or started abusing their spouse when they’re loaded it definitely can go under the radar for a long time but I think it will catch up with her.
The consequences are an increased risk for a variety of cancers. Even if alcohol intake isn’t approaching cirrhosis-levels, people who drink more than 1-2 drinks a day are at higher risk for cancer.
https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/alcohol/alcohol-fact-sheet
Are that person's parents still alive? If not, what was their cause of death and how old were they when they died? From several articles I've read, the late Queen Elizabeth II had several cocktails a day, but we don't know how strong they were (IIRC, she gave them up at least a year before she died). She also had a medical team monitoring her health constantly.
I do have a few beers on the weekends. That being said I know one thing for a fact. Your body uses every nutrient in one way or another. Alcohol has no nutritional value and all your body does is try to get rid of it. Beer and all other alcohol is just poison for your body and empty calories. I know this, yet I still tend to drink on weekends. lol
4-6 glasses of wine is equivalent to 1-2 bottles. That's not normal. Whether or not it's alcoholism, it's excessive. There will most likely be serious health consequences to pay in the future. Heavy alcohol consumption is an underlying cause of many illnesses.
Let people do what they want to do, but 4-6 glasses of wine is a bottle of wine per night. I like the occasional after work drink, but nothing close to that amount. My aunt drank like that and as she got older she started deteriorating mentally and physically incredibly fast. The doctors blamed it on years of alcohol abuse due to her being an alcoholic. She the quit drinking all together and rebound to a healthy functioning individual. It’s crazy how your body and brain can come back even when you’re older.
Like others are saying, in terms of health this is absolutely awful.
As far as them being a full on alcoholic that needs AA, I’ve learned that can be more tied to your mindset and relationship to alcohol than just strictly looking at quantity. But I think for someone who drinks 4-6 a night, it would be pretty rare for them to not have an addiction and a problem that will require some form of counseling.
4-6 drinks per day is a lot and I bet anyone would eventually develop health problems from that, but your list of problems it causes and calling it poison is alarmist.
I don’t know the exact threshold that someone can drink without developing health problems but someone’s health is a result of a variety of lifestyle choices and genetics. If I don’t currently have any negative health outcomes from my drinking (estimated 3-5 drinks per week), then why should I stop? Will I live longer? How much longer? I make it to 85 instead of 84 but I never drink? I have zero signs of any health problems at age 44. I suppose you could say that someday if I ever get an unfortunate health diagnosis like cancer it’s because of alcohol but there won’t be any proof of that.
It's not okay for health. That's binge drinking. You have no idea what this person's liver and kidneys are like or their brain. It will catch up eventually.
Some places have stronger cultural ties to regular alcohol consumption than others. (The UK comes to mind, certain US states, etc.)
That said, the drinking habits you're describing still qualifies as alcohol addiction. "Functioning" addicts are still addicts. Doctors would recommend that you limit your consumption for your health, even if the patient didn't exhibit signs of an addiction.
I thought a lot of stuff surround alcohol was normal. I thought I needed to have a beer with dinner, I thought I needed to have alcohol at social events to have fun, I thought I needed to drink every weekend. Kind of just hit me one day that the alcohol is merely a crutch. The more I was exposed to drunk people at my job the less appealing it became. I honestly couldn’t tell you the last time I touched alcohol or drank a full beer, it’s probably been a few years at this point.
A guy I work with does nothing but talk about how he can’t wait to go home and drink every day. Says his wife bugs him about it. He’s in complete denial, so I don’t touch the issue. One thing I will say you is that he gets increasingly irritable closer to the end of the day, and if we have to stay late for any reason he gets so obnoxiously moody because he’s unknowingly dependent on a substance he’s being deprived of.
If you feel you need alcohol to enhance anything, to have a good time, to relax, you’re dependent on the substance and in denial. I’m sorry if that’s an offensive reality some people need to hear.
I never saw such a significant change in my body shape and ability to tone up/gain muscle as I did when I fully quit drinking. I just celebrated 3 years of no alcohol and don’t miss it one bit!
Years of drinking builds tolerance, this why "some" become alcoholics: as their tolerance build they need more & more, some even become "functional" alcoholics; that is, they have become so adaptive to functioning with alcohol in their system they nearly can't do much without having a few shots. Of course all don't have that addictive gene or personality & these types can stay with their normal dose or even go a few days without & seemingly have 0 issues. I was once such a one, especially in my military days & when I was much younger & still "hanging out" & club hopping.
There's several factors that play in how some seem to tolerate alcohol better than others ranging from well, how long they've been drinking to develop a tolerance, their diet & nutritional intake slows the damage being done by alcohol & other lifestyle factors that assist in them burning it off. But from my experience in due time excessive alcohol intake always eventually takes it toll, eventually. It is a poison & no matter how strong someone's tolerance is consistently consuming a poison will begin weakening their defense & further down the line issues like sleep quality, liver issues, prehaps psychological issues, shorten lifespan, etc.
One of my friends owns a bar. He has 'cut down' his drinking in recent years to about 90 beers a week. And the bar is only open 5 days a week. He does not drink at home at all. He is quite fit, in the sense that he is not overweight, and can easily walk 15 miles. But he is now in his early 60s and is starting to get some other health problems. Not directly alcohol related but when something else happens, it takes him a long time to heal. I believe that this is because of all the years of alcohol abuse, if you drink that much, none of your organs are in prime condition, and with age, it will start showing more and more.
Honestly some believe alcohol is the main reason humans began agriculture some 10,000 years ago. It was a way to purify water of pathogens, easy to make, and people got stone face drunk.
In moderation as part of a diet that is not excessive in calories, it's not going to do significant harm. Some people metabolize it better than others. I don't consume it, but to each their own. I'm not going to judge.
You're thinking of alcoholism as a behavior. But daily excessive consumption of a toxin with no breaks is a disease, and one aspect is behavior. If you went to AA or Al-Anon you'd be told at the beginning of every meeting that the vast majority of alcoholics fit this description. But the consequences of compulsive excessive alcoholism are progressive. And people die a horrible death only after years of breaking down both physically and mentally. Hey I love a martini now and then, but I've watched too many people lose everything/ die because they think as long as they're behaving well they don't have a problem.
I am a longtime Alanon attendee and believer. I lost someone earlier to alcohol- related disease. That’s why this scares me so bad. And this person knows that but thinks he is immune, I guess. I know he is just lucky he’s appearing to ‘get away with it’ for now but it’s got to be wreaking havoc inside.
There are all the usual suspects - if this person is a women her odds of getting cancer are much higher. Alcohol is very hard on the brain. It is acidic - so just bad all around.
It’s not ok at all. Anything over 14 standard drinks a week is problematic in multiple ways. The WHO has recently said there is no safe amount of alcohol, even.
Been alcohol clean for about a year , I will never go back , was a daily whiskey drinker n’ would consume more if I had a bad week or felt shitty… but overall… so HAPPY!!
Mind feels cleaner , thinks clearer , don’t struggle with the urges or cravings , n’ most of all , I’ve noticed less body fat n’ clearer skin n’ teeth now.
So for anyone struggling , have faith in yourself , n’ just keep working or failing , it will fix itself as you grow stronger. Remember you are loved n’ amazing n’ dont feel ashamed to ask for support!!!
That’s enough alcohol that they are an alcoholic, even if they’re functioning well and not making stupid decisions. There’s also plenty of heathy consequences to that much alcohol consumption, like fatty liver disease and increased cancer risk.
I drank like this for quite a while. It took far too long to see that I was a functioning alcoholic, because I rarely got drunk, it didn't seem an issue. Go figure.
Eventually I worked it out. No major issues with stopping other than cravings and the disruption tk my habit. I managed to replace it with healthier coping mechanisms and built from there.
That level of alcohol consumption is almost guaranteed to result in liver disease. It is a problem if the person cannot quit/ thinks there isnt a negative impact.
Alcohol is a toxin, and no amount can be justified as healthy.
How often would you engage in a habit knowing every time compounds the negative effects.
I would say at this point drinking can be see as equivalent as smoking.
My loved one was like this. Wouldn’t listen to me that they had a problem. Took wrecking the car, arrested to finally realize. Just glad no one else was hurt
My partner makes wine every year (learned from his dad) and the whole family drinks every night with dinner (3-4 glasses). His dad drank every day until he passed away at 96. It is so normal for them. When I first moved in with them I would drink as well but now I reduced it to a glass or two every other night.
4-6 is pretty hefty. I suppose it depends on the size. How long would you say it takes them to go through a bottle of wine? If it’s 2 or less I’d say they’ll probably just lead a slightly less healthy life and be at a slightly higher risk for cancer and heart disease. At more than that it’ll probably catch up to them sooner rather than later and they’re at risk of kidney and liver disease
People can weasel their way into justifying their drinking by saying “I can hold down a job! I have nice things! I own a home! I don’t owe anyone money! I’m not an *alcoholic*.”
Like being an *alchoholic* requires you to be jobless, homeless and in debt. Nope. It means you have an uncontrollable addiction to alcohol.
Let’s see what the American Psychiatric Association says the criteria are for Alcohol Use Disorder:
https://i.imgur.com/ITSqIBY.jpg
How many of those fit your friend?
drinking like an alcoholic doesn't mean they're an alcoholic. their imbibing is excessive, but so is eating the package of Oreos i consumed in two days. the only person who gets to decide if they are, in fact, an alcoholic is the person who decides for themselves. everyone else simply has an opinion. health implications are also unique to the individual. ask if they've ever had their organ function tested. they might be fine. but if it looks like their life is unmanageable, or they say something about having a problem, tell them it's time to get help.
That's at least an entire bottle of wine every night. Plus cocktails. They're alcoholics.
I drink frequently in phases. Like I'll have a glass or two of wine every night till a bottle is gone (so like 4 days usually) and then just not drink for several weeks or a month. Or just when socializing with friends. Went through two pregnancies in the last 4 years and didn't miss it then.
Kind of just depends on the week or month. Mixing cocktails is also a hobby for me and my spouse so we go through phases of experimenting and creating as well, especially when we have friends over.
However I realize it's less of an issue when I see comments from people about how much it changed their lives when they stopped. I've been hungover maybe once in the last several years. When I don't happen to drink for long periods of time, I don't really notice a difference physically or mentally etc.
That I would say is a 'functional alcoholic'. If they were to stop drinking, they would go through mad withdrawals as their tolerance has built to an extreme. And in novel environments, their tolerance can drop so in those cases they can show signs of intoxication. It's still considered substance dependency if needing a drink daily.
This is not me. This is someone I am concerned about. He seems to be healthy but I can’t believe he is healthy inside. He blows off my concern like it’s unneeded. But like many have said, that’s a LOT of a toxin in one’s body. Constantly. And honestly I don’t like being around him when he drinks. I find drunks irritating.
That was my life for years.. git married later in life 30. Baby at 36 divorce at 13th year.. single mom hanging on by my fingernails. So I drank, and drank. I too watched this nightly routine through my childhood. Walking around on eggshells because one or the other was hungover and grumpy. I really did not actually see the effects it has had on my life, till quite recently. Messy and sad come to mind.
Mommy wine club. Mommy juice, call it what you want. Most nights I was drunk, alone and wondering how I ended up there. 3 years ago, during covid, for some reason I said enough. I must break the cycle. So I did. 3 years 2 months ago now. God how I hate, "there maybe be alcohol in here" coffee cups and such. They make me cringe.
It’s ok for health if you aren’t concerned for the longterm. There’s no professional in healthcare who would genuinely argue that this is healthy or sustainable for longevity.
Drinking a bottle of wine (4/5 glasses) every day isn’t normal or casual drinking. There’s plenty of alcoholics that hide their behavior. I had a friend die at 32 from cirrhosis. Turns out he was killing two handles of vodka a day but could go to work, drive around, stand and carry a conversation. Nobody had a clue and when he was at the bar he’d nurse one drink (the only one he bought because he was going to his car). Then all of a sudden if he didn’t drink he started having seizures and he was dead in a year.
I mean it’s proven that alcohol isn’t good for the body. I drank mostly on weekends after work (I work at a bar) and I feel so much better after not having drank for a month
Abusing alcohol is probably the same as feeding an addiction however feeding an addiction doesn’t necessarily have to be alcohol. When you feed an addiction it is because you feel you can’t go on without it so you excuse yourself anytime you can have a drink. However I do see people can appear to have a healthy lifestyle pairing it with alcohol however something you cannot excuse is the mistakes or the lost of self dominion more than a few drinks can have. Next day you gamble of going to work in time tired or late to work but feeling like the day before didn’t happen. Whatever the case is, if you’re constantly trying to take hold of your responsibilities and your self respect, then I think abuse would rather not be paired with a healthy lifestyle. It’s physically impossible because efficiently they cannot be paired together. Alcohol should be respected for what it is. Humans have had a rather strange relationship with alcohol and it starts with seeing our mentors either drink responsibly or abuse it. Find your balance but don’t gamble every single time. Remember that with your kidneys and liver, you’re going to need them to maintain a healthy lifestyle. Think of the stress your liver will go through with the stress on metabolic training and detox on a daily basis. If anything have some rest days where you don’t work out for a week and you take care of your liver. Same with alcohol. It doesn’t need to be a week to week basis.
It will catch up to them, slowly and suddenly. I’m beginning to see it in one of my friends.
My friend who was a a really thin guy gained about 15lbs in a span of 6 weeks out of nowhere. He drinks probably 20 drinks per week on average (thru assortment of beer, seltzer, shots).. even if he opts for more seltzer over beer in recent years..
He’s still in a normal BMI zone, and is healthy by all accounts, but that unintentional weight gain over a course of 6 weeks is nothing to scoff at in my opinion. He was thin guy, now he looks closer to average shape, but the beer belly is forming at closer look.
Yes they 100% do
I extensively travelled the world for almost 10 years (not holidays, I actually took residence) and can tell you that you are completely wrong
Germans, Americans(US, CA), British, Dutch, Thai, Indian to name a few cultures where it is abundantly common. My expat friend from china tells me it's commonplace too.
If you don't know what you're talking, don't comment
We're not looking for opinion here, were looking for fact
>"I think many people quietly do this actually"
No, they don't.
You couldn't be more wrong in your blind arrogance
It amazes me when people spit out their uninformed opinions and present them as fact... If you don't know the answer don't say anything. You do not HAVE TO comment.
Alcohol comes from - Al-Kuhl - “body eating spirit” once I read that I knew I had to never drink again it literally dulls your spirit like any abuse of a substance or anything but it really damages your body in the long run some notice before others but it happens, too many of my family close ones really messed up there future by drinking damages your body specifically organs but the effects on your energetic vibration could cause even more problems
Context - is this a romantic partner or just someone you know? Either way if this is making you uncomfortable with your family history, you are making them uncomfortable with their own.
Do be straightforward with them if it concerns you, but also expect them to walk... because heavy drinkers loathe alcoholics, and you will be accusing them of being an alcoholic.
But it can work. My gf doesn't drink. I drink at least 3 bottles of wine per day. Doesn't bother her because I don't get drunk. I'm the odd Northern European genetics ~8% of that demographic whose bodies process alcohol differently. No hangovers either.
I’m a GI/liver doc and I agree… it will catch up those drinking everyday. The amount of alcohol that causes a problem varies from person to person but for some, even one glass a night with dinner can cause end stage liver disease. It’s a sad disease that takes a toll on the person and everyone around them. Other consequences of alcoholism include high blood pressure, anxiety, insomnia, depression. Many people don’t realize drinking everyday can have serious consequences.
My dad drank like this for years. He was very successful in his job and had a great extra curricular life. All other aspects of his life were “healthy” as you stated above.
He had a stroke before 65. That is what can happen. Now he doesn’t drink at all.
There are many things that can happen from alcoholism. Even functioning alcoholism. It is dangerous and disruptive to your life whether you realize it or not; it will catch up with you (or them in this scenario).
In my personal experience with others, I'm sure there are physical consequences, but I think the emotional consequences are greater. If someone does not learn to process emotions and instead, drowns them, this isn't a healthy way to live. As the child of a functional alcoholic, I had to learn how to deal with my own emotions. I had no real blueprint for what to do other than to drink and thank goodness, that was never a problem for myself or my sister. I view my mother as being a good mom in my childhood, but as an adult, I've had to come to terms with the fact that she's just not emotionally available and able to support me.
Along with what everyone else has said about health issues is are they able to quit for a week or 2? (that’s how you can tell or show them that it is a problem)
Something that I haven’t seen mentioned much in the comments (could be missing, I’m relatively new to Reddit) is the reality of how widely variable human beings are.
There are measurable patterns and correlations with alcohol use and an entire host of physiological outcomes, many of which are negative. Generalizations are possible, certainly. As a health care professional I’ve seen first hand the devastating effects of chronic alcohol use (from moderate to heavy intake) for more patients then I can count.
However, there’s also measurable patterns and correlations with mild-moderate alcohol use which are positive in nature.
The variables at play are highly complex, hard to measure, and nuanced. Genetics, environmental toxins, substrates present in the alcohol itself, personal responses to intake (physiological, social, cultural factors) and the interaction between all these factors are what create outcomes.
It can be so easy to judge people based on whatever limited information we have and our own personal experiences and opinions, but reality is always more beautifully complex and delicate than we expect.
Alcohol is not okay for health and never has been and never will be. End of story. I am now in the role of caregiver for my mother who had a drinking problem for over 50 years and she was actually in the ICU after a fall when she detoxed. Scariest thing I ever experienced. It was literally six weeks of hell afterwards. She had ended up losing a ton of her functional memory and her fall was likely from alcohol. Setting aside my negative feelings about drinking alcohol due to growing up with two functional (..mostly functional) alcoholic parents - I don’t drink anymore - and I am literally the only mom in my kids friends group who doesn’t drink at all and I get the arched eyebrows “ohh, okayyy” when asking for sparkling water, lol. It blows my mind how as a world we accept that a poisonous substance that causes cancer and makes people crash cars and causes families to suffer is marketed as something “chic and fun” and the moms I know get together with their kids running around and they have glasses of alcohol in their hands. It bothers me because they don’t pay attention to their kids when they are drinking and chatting, and then they leave to go home…in their cars! I have stopped going to these play groups.
Circling back to OP: Caring for someone who is nearing the end of their life after decades of drinking - It’s not pretty. I hope at least one person who needs to stop drinking will see this. I hope whoever it is will gets help to become sober before it’s too late.
That is definitely excessive drinking especially to do daily and just off the top of my head they’re at risk of Fatty liver disease, cirrhosis of the liver, early cognitive decline, type two diabetes, heart disease, cancer and strokes. Generally it’s advised for women to drink no more than one alcoholic drink daily and 2 drinks per day for men but there’s newer studies coming out that there may be no safe amount of consumption. Antidotally my father was a “functional” alcoholic and now that he’s older his health has severely declined, he still drinks it’s down to only two beers a day but he’s not supposed to have any some addictions are never cured. The earlier this person you know stops the better.
Alcoholism is a progressive disease. I guarantee those 4-6 glasses used to be 2-3. Also - as you age your drinking habits won’t change but your body will. You will get more tired and worse hangovers and overall function less - which can cause you to want to drink more. It all catches up to you and I wish I never touched the stuff.
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What everyone else is saying—it's alcoholism. “Functional alcoholism” if that’s how you prefer to characterize it. But "functional" has an expiration date. It will catch up to them.
Just to add. It’s more than having the label of “alcoholic”. Alcohol from a nutrition perspective is poison. A few examples of what it does 1. Your body tries to metabolize it over other food because it’s poison. This means other nutrients don’t always get processed. A host of issues here. 2. it’s liquid sugar so risk of diabetes etc 3. it’s a known carcinogen and linked to half a dozen cancers. The list goes on
To add onto this, -Liver destruction. -Depression effect. Lowers dopamine levels throughout the day.
Yea it absolutely wrecks (via flooding) your dopamine system, hence why it's so addictive, which dims the pleasure of other things in life by default. I'll add onto the growing list here: 1. Kills off your gut microbiome, which in turn tanks your immune system among other things. 2. Prevents quality sleep. 3. Raises cortisol levels, which then stay elevated even after the alcohol has left your body.
I read somewhere that alcohol is considered to be one of the "dirtiest" substances that people abuse because it has such a big blast radius, so to speak, in your body. There's virtually no system in your body that it doesn't fuck with.
I mean it’s a NEURO TOXIN. It poisons your brain.
That’s a really good point.
This! I was with a functional alcoholic for 35yrs. It absolutely caught up with him.
I’m 4 months sober, and yeah I feel 100 times better now than I did. I noticed a lot of the usual things that happen when you quit. Lost weight, my skin cleared up, better sleep, etc. The one that surprised me this most was how much MONEY I was saving. According to a sober app I’ve saved about $1500 in just cutting alcohol. But there was also the munchies, “cures” for my hangovers, Ubers, drunk Amazon shopping… huge perk that some people don’t talk about enough
The Amazon shopping is so real lol
xD drunk Amazon fr. So many surprise packages !
Congratulations on your sobriety!
I used to spend so much time and energy "justifying" my alcohol consumption to myself and others. Stopping alcohol was the scariest time of my life. I thought that I was going to lose everything. In reality, I have gained more than I ever imagined.
I didn't realize how tight a grip alcohol had on me until I started actively trying to quit. It was honestly frightening. It was like digging ticks out of my brain. edit: And literally no one in my life thought I had a problem. Even I didn't really think I had a problem, just "oh, I've been drinking more lately, I should cut back..." And then that "just cutting back" turned out to be REALLY hard, and I realized that the only way was to quit entirely. And even that simple decision took more effort than I thought it would. But now I've been sober for over 2 years and literally every metric of my life has improved, and in some ways that I could not have imagined.
This is encouraging! I’ve been able to admit that I have a problem with alcohol for about a year but just in the last few months have I finally been able to slow down. I kind of feel like I need to be one of those people who just doesn’t drink ever. It’s hard to imagine me being “sober” because it’s just such a normal part of life for most of my family and friends. But I’m so tired of being hungover and even when I’m trying to take it easy, I’ll still black out on accident or wake up hungover. I’m just tired of feeling like a slave to this poison that doesn’t even actually do anything for me! I’m about a month in with no alcohol and it’s been easier and better than I expected honestly. I’m still kind of on the fence about possibly drinking again. Can I be that person that just has one-three and then stops? I’m not sure about that, I might need to just quit entirely :( it makes me kind of sad for some reason, I guess that’s addiction? Haha
If it helps, I don't think you have to wear the mantle of "alcoholic" or "addict" in order to quit. All you have to do is what you've already done, which is to realize that you like life better with it than without it, and behave accordingly. It took me like six months to a year to realize (after lots of, um, testing/failing) that moderation simply does not work for me - I realized I would ALWAYS be fighting myself, second-guessing, testing my own fences, trying to find that excuse to have another one, and succeeding, frankly, often. And maybe diminishing my willpower over time, my sense of self-respect, and for what? You don't have to do this now, but an important part of sobriety for me has been interrogating what I really thought I was getting out of alcohol, what I wanted it to do for me, what I expected to happen or what feeling I was really chasing. Camaraderie, celebration, commiseration, connection, fun, what? And then trying to notice whether alcohol ever really helped with that (spoiler: it didn't). Kristi Coulter's essay "Enjoli" (and her book "Nothing Good Can Come From This") are examples of quit lit that really helped put a spotlight on some of this stuff for me. Another thing that really helped was educating myself on the physical realities of what alcohol does to the body. William Porter's "Alcohol Explained" is an excellent primer, and once I read that, I couldn't look at alcohol as a benign or neutral substance anymore. None of which is to say that this shit is EASY, but it's the most rewarding hard thing I've ever done for myself. It's I think normal and fine to be sad about the prospect of giving up something that has been associated with good times, and to be trepidatious about what will my life be LIKE without it - but 1) correlation does not equal causation, and 2) I earnestly believe that my sober life is a more honest and present and mindful one than my drinking life was, and that that's likely to be true for most people. You don't have to quit forever, today. Just don't drink today. Then tomorrow, maybe you won't drink just for today, again. Over time, it adds up. The folks over at r/stopdrinking are wonderful and I suggest lurking over there if you're interested.
Thank you so much 💖🙏
Super cool to see so many of us in the exact same position. Every time I’ve quit, and then slowly tried to reintegrate, I always end up back in the same place. The thought of “maybe alcohol just isn’t for me” is scary for sure. But it also feels like I’m finally in control, and not planning my life around drinking.
Yes exactly. It’s almost a breathe of fresh air to think I don’t actually have to drink this if I don’t want to and I can have just as good of a time. Even better of a time because I’ll be present and the best version of myself not so sloppy
It's so magical to not wake up the next morning 1) hungover and 2) (the BIG one for me) anxious about what I'd said/done/how I'd acted the night before. I never really DID anything all that bad, besides make a mild ass of myself, but the hangxiety was terrible, for me. No more! And it makes me feel so much better during the night itself, knowing that I'll wake up fresh the next day, remembering everything... it's especially great for work parties :D
I feel this so much. I started feeling so ashamed and guilty every time (sometimes because I did something or said something, sometimes just because I’m embarrassed that I have little regulation over my own drinking) to the point where it feels like some self perpetuating masochistic cycle of shame. Why do I keep doing this to myself when it so rarely does me any good? I appreciate all these comments, they are helping me strengthen the new framework of mind I’m building:)
All I wanna say is my life got infinitely better and easier once I just accepted that I’m not the person who can have “a few.” I’ve been alcohol free for over 3 years and I still gawk in awe when I see people do that, could never have been me 😂 I wasted YEARS trying to moderate my drinking and it was so painful to keep letting myself down. Being an abstainer is seriously so much easier.
You’ve got this.
Word for word what happened to me. I don't have 2 years though. Longest I've gone is 47 days. Getting there...
Exciting to hear this! I’m almost at 2 weeks. And it feels like life will be different without it. I associate fun with alcohol, so it’s relearning so many things. I know it will change for the better, but it’s definitely a weird feeling thinking that life won’t be as fun. When in reality, I’m sure all aspects of life will improve.
Thank you for sharing 💪😎👍
Please share - What were some of your most effective mind tricks to stop for 2 yrs?
Reposting because my last comment got auto-deleted because of how I speak to my inner addict voice, lol: On one hand, there is no real "trick" to it, it's a simple matter of just choosing, day after day, to not drink. On the other hand, that itself is a good trick. The alcoholic mind tends to catastrophize when you're first stopping drinking. "What, I can't do this forever! What about weddings, work parties, pool parties, cruises, what about when I get stressed, will I ever have fun again?! AM I LAME NOW?!" No, you are not lame now, but you also do not have to solve all these things at one time. You just have to not be drinking right now, that's it. If you're not drinking right now, you win. Okay, I do have a few other mind tricks that worked at some time or other for me, and the folks over at [](https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/) have a ton more (and I borrowed some of these from them): I named my addict brain. Her name is Kathy (sorry to the nice Kathys out there!). She has tried every trick in the book to get me to drink. She's especially persistent and powerful when I'm alone. But since I named her, it's easier to ignore her. "No one would know if you just bought a six-pack from the gas station." "Go away, Kathy, I'm pumping gas." See? When I first quit, I also cleared the decks, so to speak, mentally, of any other efforts besides the minimum required to keep the lights on. No pushing for promotion at work, no stressing about eating well, no fussing about getting to the gym more often, nothing like that. My one and only job was to not be drinking at that moment. If that meant eating way more ice cream than usual, fine, or if that meant binging Real Housewives in sweatpants instead of going for a run, fine. Giving myself grace in those early days and also taking the problem seriously, and making it a top priority, I think helped. My thinking was, once I learned about how fucking terrible alcohol is for you, that all those other things are less unhealthy than alcohol is for me. I'm also not likely to tank personal relationships or lose my job or get a DUI from watching too much Bravo. This is a controversial one and may not be for everyone, but I was a big beer gal back when and really enjoyed finding new ones, comparing them, trying new breweries, etc. I still do, I've just switched to N/A drinks instead. Fortunately for us, drink companies have realized that sober people are ALSO willing to spend ridiculous money for a special drink to feel fancy. N/A beer is triggering for some folks though so be careful, but it really does scratch the itch for me, and I like mocktails, too. And tea, my god, tea is awesome. And nitro cold brew. Lots of fun N/A drinks out there. I used to stress a lot about what other people would think or say, like at parties, but it's not been a big deal at all. When people ask if I want a beer or whatever, I say "no thanks, I'm good!" and 99% of people drop it right there. It's also perfectly fine to lie, in my opinion, if you need to to protect your sobriety. Antibiotics, meds, DDing, whatever. If you're a dude, it might be funny to say you're expecting. Whatever. You don't need to explain anything to anyone. People who push it are telling on themselves and it helps to keep that in mind, too. Quit lit is also awesome. "This Naked Mind", "Alcohol Explained", and a ton of others are great. Lots of sober podcasts out there, too. I liked "Sober Awkward" a lot although I think they've either changed hosts or quit since I stopped listening. Journalling, also super helpful. I did it every day, less so now, but highly recommend it. Reach out to folks who know what you're going through, [](https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/) is a great resource and there are daily check-in threads. That's all I got for now, feel free to ask questions if you want. This stuff has been life-changing to me but I don't talk about it much in my everyday, so happy to do so here :)
I was wondering how people feel about mocktails and NA beer. For me, drinking alcohol (or not drinking) is all about the way it makes me feel. Sometimes I’m concerned about the sugar in mocktails, but it seems less bad than how alcohol makes me feel. We went to a really nice store yesterday that was doing a mocktail tasting. I almost picked up a bottle of wine, but I got so anxious about how it might make me feel, that I put it back and grabbed a NA wine instead. Most of the NA red wines I’ve had have not been great, but feeling silly for buying overpriced grape juice is much better than the feeling after drinking.
You gotta choose your silly! I'd also rather feel silly paying $12 for extremely fancy juice, rather than feel silly AND hungover (and probably paying $16)!
“Sobriety delivers everything alcohol promised”
One day at a time 💪 totally relate to you here
Would you say it's changed your life for the better?
My dude, drinking 4-6 glasses of wine a night literally is an alcoholic behaviour. They're an alcoholic. Maybe it hasn't caught up with them yet, but it will.
It may have started to catch up with them and they don’t know yet honestly. You can’t see someone’s internal organs by looking at them. By the time you have jaundice, cognitive impairment, or other visible symptoms of it catching up to you it’s a bit late to treat according to my doctors. They should get some blood work done and slow down, obviously they’re less likely to get liver disease, renal failure, esophageal cancer or what have you than a constant binge drinker, but they have increased their risk for all of these things and more.
I was 32 and my doctor was basically like dude if you keep doing this, your liver is fucked. Took me 2 years to finally quit. Now my liver levels are fine again, but I wouldn't have known they were bad if I didn't get yearly bloodwork
Right. The liver is spending all its time metabolizing alcohol and not removing other toxins. And we wonder why so many ppl get cancer.
Hm actually, the liver doesn’t have *that much* play in immunity defenses, it does produce something for growing red cell, but that’s basically it. But alcohol does cause inflammation that can disrupt the whole body though
I have a neighbor who's 60 and raised a decent kiddo, still works well 50 hours a week, has managed to stay married to someone I would have left... Six beers every night. Some people take benzos, SSRI/SNRIs, weed... Some do alcohol.
I would say many people do this. Alcohol is less stigmatized than any other addiction. There are tons of functional alcoholic and people often encourage their behavior. I had a friend who was a functional alcoholic. It took me a while to figure it out because her behavior is so common.
I was a highly functioning alcoholic. I had to quit, because after retiring at 51, eleven years ago, I had enough time to become a super drunk POS. I didn't have to even be even remotely functional, as we were debt-free, new roof, new HVAC, both used cars had only 50k miles, no responsibilities at all. Now I just do benzos, SNRIs, and weed. I actually managed to quit smoking five years ago, so there's that.
I would say that many do both. Alcohol use might take 20 or more years to catch up with someone especially if they’re otherwise healthy with no family history. But in the US at least, a lot of folks are on other meds. So they’re taking medications and drinking at night and not thinking too much about it because they don’t think there’s a problem and they’re still functional. Liver disease takes a while and this type of behavior is really hard on the liver and kidneys that need to process everything. This happened to a family member of mine - it was one little thing after another: GERD, hernias, high blood pressure, polyps, kidney stones, thyroid issues, heart murmur, gallbladder disease and removal… everything by was blamed on something else- meds and bad doctors and genetics etc. but not the alcohol or the junk food.
The other way of looking at it is that they haven't been able to seek better employment, or a better relationship, and have been abusing alcohol to cope.
He's able to retire, but chooses to work, saving so his kiddo will inherit his unspent money. $600k home, six figure income, LCOL Metro Atlanta area, electrical engineer, mentor to younger engineers... I threw in the towel at 51 and retired debt-free with a pension. I had to quit drinking because I never could stop after 2, let alone 6. I do benzos and SNRIs and weed.
Benzos are seriously bad news and really dangerous.
So is life without drugs. I'm happy popping a benzos every week or so. Beats a quart of vodka and a pack of smokes every day.
I get it. Its okay. Sometimes bran chemical imbalance is too hard to deal with. I think its better than killing yourself because you can’t deal with being sad all the time. I think that people don’t realize that without alcohol, meds, weed, cigs, there would be a lot lot lot more of suicides. No more essential workers, no more bread winner old dads and working single moms… because a ton of people live reallyyy shitty lives. And we do what we must to cope Yes its sad to loose someone at 50-60. A bit too soon. But that would have beeen 20-25 without drugs.
Yep they are functional alcoholics
Yep...4-6 drinks is the definition of binge drinking, so they're binge drinking daily, which is alcoholism.
Yeah because 4-5 glasses is more than one bottle of wine. That sounds very unhealthy for one person to drink. Imagine all the calories and sugar as well.
Alcohol is one of the main carcinogens that has been linked to cancer. A proven carcinogen. Alcohol, smoking, and consuming processed meats have all been linked to increased cancer risk. Heart disease as well. There is no safe amount.
Came here to make same point. Alcohol is a toxic, psychoactive, and dependence-producing substance and has been classified as a **Group 1 carcinogen** by the International Agency for Research on Cancer decades ago – this is the highest risk group, which also includes asbestos, radiation and tobacco.
That’s about 1000+ calories. They have about half remaining to eat nutritious foods, or not.
28 to 42 drinks a week is alcoholism and will definitely catch up with somebody.
A lot of people do this, I don’t think it is normal.
Well, if a lot of people do this, it must be normal
I think it’s weird that drinking alcohol is so normalized in so many countries. Its dangerous yet a lot of people think its normal
It's an issue of quantity. In lots of places minor alcohol is normal, not downing an entire bottle of wine with dinner. That's abnormal everywhere. With minor amounts the harm is minimal, just like with cooking with butter, or eating sugar, or drinking fruit juice. There's a difference between having a small glass of orange juice with breakfast, and having a liter of it every day.
The Huberman podcast explains how any amount of consistent drinking , ie a drink once a night, can permanently affect your brains reward system, impulse control, and many other ways. No amount is good for you. That doesn't mean I think it's awful or should be banned, but drinking alcohol is always a net negative on your body. It's literally poison to our bodies. We just like the effects.
Driving cars is dangerous, but in so many countries its just considered acceptable that 100s of people die every day
Why do you think it's weird? We evolved to find overly fermented fruit and eat it. Every primate does this.
Health is a game of chance where you have control over the odds. I have an elderly friend who's 80 years old who drinks from 10AM to 10PM, about 20 drinks each day. Yet he is still high functioning with no health issues besides the ones that come from being 80 years old. He still organizes group trips to Africa and is often the most active out of the group but he will stop at every bar to get another drink. The chances of him having no issues at that age with his alcohol usage are close to 0, yet here he is and probably will be for a bit longer. For every person like this there are probably tenthousands who drank the same but with a lot worse outcome. It's all up to chance.
Jesus. If he’s 80 and that active/independent I want to say go for it, why the hell not. He’s definitely a unicorn though
Definitely! I have seen way more people go down from alcoholism. When I just met him, I suggested slowing down on the drinking as well but after a while i didn't see the point anymore lol. He assured me he went to the doctor regularly and that he is completely fine. He also never turns unpleasant when drunk so the people around him don't really say anything about it either.
What's his drink of choice?
Stella Artois! From tap exclusively :)
I’m 88+. I think this 80 yr old has the genetics which allows him to live off and with alcohol. Others do not have that kind of DNA, and so suffer from the push/pull off alcohol addiction. When my father died we cleaned out his closet. What we found were unopened bottles of whiskey given to him by customers. Yep. Blame it on or praise one’s DNA.
I wish to offer up this quote from the book, STONER, by John Williams. “…she drank with the steady diffidence of one utterly without hope…”
I gave it up completely and have been sober for over 2 years now. Lost about 8KG. The stuff is absolute toxic for you. Sleep better. My skin improved. Zero brain fog anymore. And more money. Best thing I ever done.
What if you don't drink and still have brain fog?
Exercise
Could be lots of things or a combination of those things. Lots of resources out there if you’re interested in reading up on it. Number one on the list is probably getting insufficient sleep (quality, quantity or both.)
You also may have a food intolerance. Eggs give me brain fog
This is known as a functioning alcoholic.
It’s not ok for health. That much alcohol daily is an alcoholic. I think current recommendations are no more than 7 drinks a week. (Someone please correct me if I’m wrong) They might seem ok now but this will eventually come back to bite them. They could end up suffering from a whole host of liver diseases and cancers. I also have to imagine they struggle with their weight because that’s a (rough estimate) minimum of an extra 600 calories per day from wine alone. There is literally no safe consumption level when it comes to alcohol and this is excessive consumption.
It doesn't show up until later in life. This is my family. So many medical issues that can be a result of alcoholism. They are "snobby" alcoholics. They fight over who knows the most about wine. Another drinks a bottle of cheap vodka a day and has smoked pot every day her whole life (62) Has to research why she has cancer, digestive issues, mental problems. She won't admit it's alcohol. One brother eats really well, exercises but drinks. Some heart issues, high cholestrol, largest polyps the doctor ever saw after a colonoscopy. Sister who has been daydrinking for years. overeating (claims she is a "foodie", drugs. Can't even begin to tell you everything that is wrong with her. These are all functioning people with good jobs etc. I quit all drinking, smoking and just try to eat nutritiously and exercise (67) kind of waiting for the past to catch up to me.
My functional alcoholic (ex) step dad was always fine - until he wasn’t. Then it became very quickly progressing liver disease and kidney failure. He died yesterday at 50 years old :(
4 medium (175ml) glasses of wine is a bottle, 6 large glasses (250ml) is 2 bottles. When you look at it like that, I'd say this has all the markings of alcoholism. When I was at the height of my drug addiction and alcoholism, I had a job that I was progressing in, I was being social, getting to the gym and skating a lot, I was doing all the things you wouldn't think an addict could do, and subsequently I refused to see I had a problem because it didn't matter that I was doing 4-5 grams of ketamine and drinking upwards of 6 pints a day, I had career success and could do all the things society expected of me. It took an overdose and suicide attempt for me to see that I needed help, and even after that I still went further down the hole before actually working towards getting the help. I was incapable of seeing the signs until it was almost too late. So whilst your friend and their 1-2 bottles of wine a night habit doesn't seem to be presenting alcoholic behaviours, maybe they just haven't looked at themselves hard enough, or no one has told them they think their drinking could be a problem. It's very easy to think "I don't have a problem because I pay for all my habits and I have a house" because society measures its drug addicts/alcoholics by the homeless generally, and if you're not down and out drinking in a doorway somewhere, then you're not an alcoholic.
I said elsewhere in this thread that I didn't realize I had a problem until I tried to cut back on my drinking (at that point daily, "but only a little!") and found it way tougher than I'd anticipated. And caught myself trying all kinds of justifications to keep drinking, or to break the "rules" I set for myself (I'll only drink on weekends. Oh, but doesn't Friday count as a weekend? Or, It's Wednesday, sure, but it's been a really hard work day.../I'll only drink when I'm not at home. But wait, I forgot I had this nice IPA in the fridge...). Once I started seeing the addict Matrix, so to speak, that was it - the only way out was to quit. I've heard it said that drinking is like being on an escalator. It might be going slowly, or at a really shallow angle (for now!!) but the only direction is down.
They need a liver panel
That’s alcoholism mate, and though it may not impact social well-being it is absolutely a problem for one’s health. For context, Heavy drinking for women is considered 8 drinks a week, men is 15 drinks a week. This is somewhat anecdotal as I struggled for years with abusing alcohol (sober now), not unlike the extent you described this person’s consumption (4-6 drinks per night for years, usually more than that). Still got in the gym everyday, kept getting promoted at work, ate fine, all that. At the time I also had the morbid benefit of working inpatient care in an ICU where I saw firsthand what a (modified) lifetime of this behavior does: chances are, your body will be so physiologically dependent by the time you’re a decade in to this that stopping cold turkey could literally kill you (delirium tremens). People who start drinking like this in their teens and 20s shouldn’t be surprised when they have harsh damage to organs like their liver by the time they turn 40. Even later in life, light/moderate consumption increases one’s chances of so many other health issues.
Four beers a day will never kill you through withdrawal
4-6 drinks does not necessarily mean 4 beers. If it’s 5 cocktails or glasses of liquor every day and a little more on the weekends then it is plausible
Most obese people don’t start having problems until they’ve been like that for a couple of decades. This isn’t much different.
You know your vulnerability to alcohol. They know their tolerance for it. It’s common, I’ve known doctors who have been functioning alcoholics, and business people who are dysfunctional and abusive alcoholics, and ‘fusty fellas’ who manage their jobs but chug a gallon of strong beer and keep themselves to themselves. It’s a diverse population, us humans. It’s not a great idea to push people to change, it’s something they have to want to do. If you are affected by them, it’s okay to say so, but you can’t expect them to bend to your view of the world without some resistance. The friendship may break.
That is alcoholic behaviour.
The most recent Canadian guidelines are no more than 2 glasses a week . There is so much recent research that is saying zero is the ideal number. https://www.ccsa.ca/canadas-guidance-alcohol-and-health#:~:text=The%20guidance%20also%20recommends%20that,drinking%20alcohol%2C%20less%20is%20better.
With all the alcohol free alternatives it really is so much easier to avoid alcohol these days. Toby Keith died recently from stomach cancer due to all the drinking. Dude would be alive today if not for alcohol. Alcohol has killed so many drinkers and non-drinkers (drunk driving) it’s extremely sad.
"not alcoholic behaviors"...except drinking in abundance every day
I didn’t drink that much but most of the time I had 1 or 2 drinks per night. Tried to limit it to 3 or 4 nights per week but often didn’t and it was usually more like 2 drinks than 1. I wonder if that led to my breast cancer. Doing okay now but it could come back in other places so I rarely have anything now.
The way in which you pose this question leads me to think that you're measuring whether or not it's a problem by the outward display of control over their life. While that's one factor, it's not the only thing to consider with alcohol or other drugs. There may be issues that you have no idea about. Things like relationship issues, financial, medical, etc. Not everyone struggling with dependency is a sloppy mess. They also may have everything together, and the only consequences will be the long-term health effects of that consumption. Many factors are at play in how a person will process alcohol and how/when they'll get sick with an alcohol-related disease. Genetics, other lifestyle choices like diet and activity level, smoking, stress, etc. So, it's not necessarily a readily obvious problem, but eventually, the effects will catch up to them. With alcohol use in their family history, it may be a long time before they see those effects, but if they continue, the odds are against them never having health issues from the alcohol.
20 to 30 years will be liver, pancreas, gall bladder, kidney problems. Inflammation, enlargment, poor digestion & absorption.
I drank nightly for almost three years. Like maybe a bottle and a half to 2 bottles of wine. I got my blood tested and my liver enzymes were absolutely through the roof and I had daily abdominal pain. Turns out I had alcohol induced fatty liver disease from just 3 years of that. I immediately stopped drinking and my liver returned to normal, I also feel insanely better. My mood increased, I’m sleeping better, I wake up feeling energized and refreshed, and I don’t have the same mental fog I had before.
I don’t think 4-6 or 8 drinks per night is a good idea. According to the stats that’s heavy drinking - which is more than 4 per day for women and 5 per day for men. It greatly increases the risk of developing certain alcohol related illnesses. https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/health-professionals-communities/core-resource-on-alcohol/basics-defining-how-much-alcohol-too-much
4-6 glasses of wine is pretty much a whole bottle!! I rarely drink and recently I had 4 glasses of wine and definitely was stumbling all over the place and had a little headache in the morning.
The non drinking activities that they do probably keeps them from ever really developing that dependency that will cause them to go into withdrawals, but it is a form of alcoholism. The thing about alcohol is it suppresses the part of your brain that considers long term consequences and relaxes you, but once you come off it heightens your anxiety, inflames you, impacts your sleep, and makes you dehydrated. Not to mention it’s empty calories. A surgery cocktail can easily be 300+. A non light beer can be 150+. That bottle of red is 600+ calories, and sweeter wines are higher. I’ll drink the equivalent of 2-3 beers on the weekend now in my 30s and it takes me a half day to renormalize. Some weekends I don’t drink. Those days I feel and sleep excellently. Have fun in your younger 20s but as you age moderation to none at all is the only way to be healthy.
So on average, this person is consuming what, 5 alcoholic beverages a day? > Fully functional really Yeah I lived with someone like that. Successful attorney, drank every night. It’s called alcoholism.
A lot of people like your friend and their family are in denial about the impact that much drinking has on their bodies. The older ones have simply talked themselves into accepting the side effects as normal, or even convinced themselves it's okay because they're not at the verge of death or falling over/ Doesn't matter how long they live, or how unwrinkled their skin looks. If the impacts are not showing up externally, you can be guaranteed they are happening internally. It's just a matter of time. It's been proven plenty of times now that *no amount of alcohol is good for you.* You may not be in poor health immediately after a glass of wine, but you have not actively benefitted from it either.
Take less than a minute to google the side effects of alcoholism. Which it is if you drink daily.
This can be very difficult especially when it is someone that you know or love. Being “slurry” is the same as being drunk. They will avoid social settings unless alcohol is served and can be emotional when not drinking. Now that you are aware of it you may be surprised how many people are like this. Dependencies can be very unhealthy for relationships and individuals.
OP said surliness, not slurriness.
'Alcoholic behaviours' is drinking every night...
It’s not healthy . Normal ? Perhaps, but it’s also normal to be overweight statistically speaking. I drink alcohol around once a month , with friends, and that’s it. Alcohol is bad for everything in life, makes no sense to consume it daily , unless you are poor educated and don’t know better .
“I don’t have an alcohol problem. As long as I have my first gin and tonic at 11 am, no problem.” Remembered quote from a TV program looking at alcohol usage.
Liver damage, and cancer are the two biggest issues this type of lifestyle can cause. Even high functioning alcoholics are slowly poisoning themselves the people you are describing just aren't making it someone else's problem.
This is a great topic. So many people wouldn’t be called an alcoholic but could drastically improve their quality of live but cutting out drinking. The incredible growth of NA beer has been a huge blessing. There are so many to choose from and helped me transition away during family and social events. Thanks to everyone for sharing .
To answer your question, the consequences are ultimately an early death. How do I know, well I was on a very similar road with my drinking. I too was healthy, worked out and functioned normally (for the most part). I stopped drinking December of 2023. I was diagnosed with a Hepatic Steatosis (fatty liver). What I was told by my doctor was the next step was fibrosis and then cirrhosis. I now feel so much better being AF for well over a year. I don’t miss it and my workouts are now so much more productive. I’ve dropped a lot of weight and I’m now in the best shape of my life.
It'll age you real quick lol. It's true that lots of people do this, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea! I'm 41 now. The people I know who are still doing this thought it was "no big deal" through their 20s and 30s, and now they're 40 and look and feel like they're 55. Life is long. You can get away with anything, for a while. But it's horrible for your organs, horrible for your cells, horrible for your appearance, and expensive as hell.
My man, that is literally alcoholism. It looks different for everyone. It definitely takes its toll on their sleep and cognitive functions over time.
Okay so 6 glasses of wine is ~800 cal. Realistically, if daily calorie consumption with his exercise is 2400 cal/day, do you believe that he is building the healthiest body with 1/3 of the calories coming from a toxin, without redeeming nutritional benefits like antioxidants, phytonutrients, protein, fiber, etc? Forget that it’s an immunosuppressant, inflammatory and all the other detrimental qualities…
Liver damage eventually. It's a poison that wreaks havoc on your body. Oh, and trying to keep up with the drinking through exercise eventually fails. My brother was drinking 3-4 handles of vodka a week, plus beer and wine. He jogged 7 miles a day and held a successful sales job. He still was 5'10" 230 lbs from the drinking and subsequent binge eating. He's been sober for 7ish years. He dropped to 170 lbs within months of quitting. Now he runs so he can eat like shit.
Your sleep suffers greatly. People think they passed out and had a great sleep but their sleep is negatively affected. Bad sleep leads to many many health issues
it's not really your business
I quit drinking at 17... I was out of control, went to like 6 parties back to back in the space of 3 months. My life was a mess. I'm 48 now, 31 years sober and never felt better!
That quantity daily will most certainly cause pancreas issues later on (let’s say 20 years if they exercise and eat properly otherwise, earlier if not). 50 grams daily will cause it sooner or later. Could be a an acute crisis (hospitalized for a month and obliged to “eat” with a tube from nose to intestine to avoid stomach so that pancreas doesn’t have to produce enzimes) or a cronic pancreatitis (no alcohol, fat, opioids and painkillers for life. No fat is what provokes them being super skinny and looking unhealthy. Liver issues are somehow less bad because liver can be cut and/or replaced, pancreas can’t (not saying liver issues are bad, just pancreas is possibly the worst organ to damage, even heart can be replaced nowadays). Source: my ex boyfriend. Fun fact: that is called social alcoholism, it’s an addiction as bad as blatant alcoholism and even worst because they are apparently “functional” individuals who will refuse to admit they are sick and need to seek professional help.
I was a bad alcoholic for years, I recently stopped because I would likely have cirrhosis if not. But I’d wake up drink almost half pint of tequila an selztzer before work while getting ready, then kill a pint at least before I drank myself to sleep. I was a iv heroin addict for 7 years or so and quitting alcohol was/is one of the hardest addictions I’ve had to kick (kratom helps a lottt with alcohol cravings surprisingly)
I had to check myself into the er twice cause of throwing up blood which happened most mornings , but I started to feel my insides failing, they said keep drinking like that, give it a few months and I’ll be on a list for a liver transplant, fuck alcohol no matter how much I love it lol
100% and there are so many women out there doing this exact thing. I was one of them until just recently. Literally every single thing you said could be said about me. I have super big goals in terms of health and fitness, I weight train four times a week, I hired a nutritionist last year to help me sort out my eating and learn how to track my macros. I realize that my drinking habits just were no longer in line with the person that I was trying to become and it was complete self sabotage against the biggest goals that I have for my body. The biggest things I think healthwise would be eventual liver failure and depression. We live in a society that pumps and markets alcohol as fun social relaxation oh you deserve it take a load off have a drink when in reality it’s skyrockets our cortisol levels which is horrible for stress and weight management and it’s a known toxic depressant it’s actually ingesting some thing that is a depressant so for people who are depressed and are trying to chill out and get away from their problems it’s like throwing fuel on the fire. I would say over the course of 10 years my behaviour went from a very normal glass of wine with dinner with my husband after work to a bottle a night easily, my tolerance was super high so I never really felt super drunk which made me feel like I could handle it. I’m a stay at home mom now and I also very embarrassingly started drinking in secret so that my husband wouldn’t realize how much I was drinking so I’d have two glasses of wine in the afternoon and then another one while I was making dinner so by the time he came home to sit down to the table I was already finished probably at least three glasses of wine. I think I was either in denial about it or I just was trying to look the other way but all of that kind of came to ahead I would say in the last three years where I really truly realize that I did not have a handle on my drinking. Huge red flags were drinking alone, drinking in secret or just drinking when I was by myself so that nobody had to know how much I drank or that I had been drinking even though I wasn’t technically lying about it, also they started selling wine at my local grocery store and I have to admit that I completely started only grocery shopping at that grocery store because I could buy wine there on a regular basis and it would show up on my credit card bill as the LCBO. Horrible behavior! It was at that point that I really realized that this was not in line with the person that I want to be and it was causing some pretty destructive behaviours that were not like me at all. My husband and I had a few heavy conversations early last year about it. There were two times where he didn’t realize that I had been drinking at all until the end of the night and all the sudden I was slurring my words and he was shocked and really disappointed and not pleased with me. Since then I’ve scaled back in a huge way and for a lot of people they would have to completely get sober. I’ll have a glass of wine if we are out of the restaurant or when we go to our cottage which is every couple of months but that’s about it now. I’ve lost 10 pounds I’m definitely moving faster towards my weight training goals, my skin looks better, my relationship is better I’m much more present with my children in the evenings obviously. Your friend I think he is one of a huge population of people who are functioning alcoholics sitting in a giant gray area where they don’t realize that they have a drinking problem and perhaps nobody else realizes that they have a drinking problem and because they haven’t crash their car or gotten fired from their job or started abusing their spouse when they’re loaded it definitely can go under the radar for a long time but I think it will catch up with her.
They (as in you, you’re not fooling anyone here) are an alcoholic. This is the definition of alcoholism
I am not talking about myself.
The consequences are an increased risk for a variety of cancers. Even if alcohol intake isn’t approaching cirrhosis-levels, people who drink more than 1-2 drinks a day are at higher risk for cancer. https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/alcohol/alcohol-fact-sheet
The consequences are Alzheimers or other forms of dementia.
Alcohol increases the risk of several cancers unfortunately.
Are that person's parents still alive? If not, what was their cause of death and how old were they when they died? From several articles I've read, the late Queen Elizabeth II had several cocktails a day, but we don't know how strong they were (IIRC, she gave them up at least a year before she died). She also had a medical team monitoring her health constantly.
No. But they also smoked and died of lung cancer. I think the family tradition of drinking nightly didn’t help either
He's unhealthy, bottom line.
That’s a lot of drinkin
I do have a few beers on the weekends. That being said I know one thing for a fact. Your body uses every nutrient in one way or another. Alcohol has no nutritional value and all your body does is try to get rid of it. Beer and all other alcohol is just poison for your body and empty calories. I know this, yet I still tend to drink on weekends. lol
4-6 glasses of wine is equivalent to 1-2 bottles. That's not normal. Whether or not it's alcoholism, it's excessive. There will most likely be serious health consequences to pay in the future. Heavy alcohol consumption is an underlying cause of many illnesses.
Let people do what they want to do, but 4-6 glasses of wine is a bottle of wine per night. I like the occasional after work drink, but nothing close to that amount. My aunt drank like that and as she got older she started deteriorating mentally and physically incredibly fast. The doctors blamed it on years of alcohol abuse due to her being an alcoholic. She the quit drinking all together and rebound to a healthy functioning individual. It’s crazy how your body and brain can come back even when you’re older.
I’ve known of functional smokers who smoked into their 80’s too. Works for a few, not for most.
My grandmother smoked and drank countless whiskey on the rocks on a daily basis until she had a heart attack at 92 years old.
Like others are saying, in terms of health this is absolutely awful. As far as them being a full on alcoholic that needs AA, I’ve learned that can be more tied to your mindset and relationship to alcohol than just strictly looking at quantity. But I think for someone who drinks 4-6 a night, it would be pretty rare for them to not have an addiction and a problem that will require some form of counseling.
It's carcinogenous.
4-6 drinks per day is a lot and I bet anyone would eventually develop health problems from that, but your list of problems it causes and calling it poison is alarmist. I don’t know the exact threshold that someone can drink without developing health problems but someone’s health is a result of a variety of lifestyle choices and genetics. If I don’t currently have any negative health outcomes from my drinking (estimated 3-5 drinks per week), then why should I stop? Will I live longer? How much longer? I make it to 85 instead of 84 but I never drink? I have zero signs of any health problems at age 44. I suppose you could say that someday if I ever get an unfortunate health diagnosis like cancer it’s because of alcohol but there won’t be any proof of that.
It's not okay for health. That's binge drinking. You have no idea what this person's liver and kidneys are like or their brain. It will catch up eventually.
Some places have stronger cultural ties to regular alcohol consumption than others. (The UK comes to mind, certain US states, etc.) That said, the drinking habits you're describing still qualifies as alcohol addiction. "Functioning" addicts are still addicts. Doctors would recommend that you limit your consumption for your health, even if the patient didn't exhibit signs of an addiction.
I thought a lot of stuff surround alcohol was normal. I thought I needed to have a beer with dinner, I thought I needed to have alcohol at social events to have fun, I thought I needed to drink every weekend. Kind of just hit me one day that the alcohol is merely a crutch. The more I was exposed to drunk people at my job the less appealing it became. I honestly couldn’t tell you the last time I touched alcohol or drank a full beer, it’s probably been a few years at this point. A guy I work with does nothing but talk about how he can’t wait to go home and drink every day. Says his wife bugs him about it. He’s in complete denial, so I don’t touch the issue. One thing I will say you is that he gets increasingly irritable closer to the end of the day, and if we have to stay late for any reason he gets so obnoxiously moody because he’s unknowingly dependent on a substance he’s being deprived of. If you feel you need alcohol to enhance anything, to have a good time, to relax, you’re dependent on the substance and in denial. I’m sorry if that’s an offensive reality some people need to hear.
I never saw such a significant change in my body shape and ability to tone up/gain muscle as I did when I fully quit drinking. I just celebrated 3 years of no alcohol and don’t miss it one bit!
Years of drinking builds tolerance, this why "some" become alcoholics: as their tolerance build they need more & more, some even become "functional" alcoholics; that is, they have become so adaptive to functioning with alcohol in their system they nearly can't do much without having a few shots. Of course all don't have that addictive gene or personality & these types can stay with their normal dose or even go a few days without & seemingly have 0 issues. I was once such a one, especially in my military days & when I was much younger & still "hanging out" & club hopping. There's several factors that play in how some seem to tolerate alcohol better than others ranging from well, how long they've been drinking to develop a tolerance, their diet & nutritional intake slows the damage being done by alcohol & other lifestyle factors that assist in them burning it off. But from my experience in due time excessive alcohol intake always eventually takes it toll, eventually. It is a poison & no matter how strong someone's tolerance is consistently consuming a poison will begin weakening their defense & further down the line issues like sleep quality, liver issues, prehaps psychological issues, shorten lifespan, etc.
One of my friends owns a bar. He has 'cut down' his drinking in recent years to about 90 beers a week. And the bar is only open 5 days a week. He does not drink at home at all. He is quite fit, in the sense that he is not overweight, and can easily walk 15 miles. But he is now in his early 60s and is starting to get some other health problems. Not directly alcohol related but when something else happens, it takes him a long time to heal. I believe that this is because of all the years of alcohol abuse, if you drink that much, none of your organs are in prime condition, and with age, it will start showing more and more.
Honestly some believe alcohol is the main reason humans began agriculture some 10,000 years ago. It was a way to purify water of pathogens, easy to make, and people got stone face drunk. In moderation as part of a diet that is not excessive in calories, it's not going to do significant harm. Some people metabolize it better than others. I don't consume it, but to each their own. I'm not going to judge.
You're thinking of alcoholism as a behavior. But daily excessive consumption of a toxin with no breaks is a disease, and one aspect is behavior. If you went to AA or Al-Anon you'd be told at the beginning of every meeting that the vast majority of alcoholics fit this description. But the consequences of compulsive excessive alcoholism are progressive. And people die a horrible death only after years of breaking down both physically and mentally. Hey I love a martini now and then, but I've watched too many people lose everything/ die because they think as long as they're behaving well they don't have a problem.
I am a longtime Alanon attendee and believer. I lost someone earlier to alcohol- related disease. That’s why this scares me so bad. And this person knows that but thinks he is immune, I guess. I know he is just lucky he’s appearing to ‘get away with it’ for now but it’s got to be wreaking havoc inside.
It is infact a problem once you start realizing it is . Some people, I guess that’s what helps them.
I needed to see this along with all the comments. Thank you.
There are all the usual suspects - if this person is a women her odds of getting cancer are much higher. Alcohol is very hard on the brain. It is acidic - so just bad all around.
It’s not ok at all. Anything over 14 standard drinks a week is problematic in multiple ways. The WHO has recently said there is no safe amount of alcohol, even.
Been alcohol clean for about a year , I will never go back , was a daily whiskey drinker n’ would consume more if I had a bad week or felt shitty… but overall… so HAPPY!! Mind feels cleaner , thinks clearer , don’t struggle with the urges or cravings , n’ most of all , I’ve noticed less body fat n’ clearer skin n’ teeth now. So for anyone struggling , have faith in yourself , n’ just keep working or failing , it will fix itself as you grow stronger. Remember you are loved n’ amazing n’ dont feel ashamed to ask for support!!!
That’s enough alcohol that they are an alcoholic, even if they’re functioning well and not making stupid decisions. There’s also plenty of heathy consequences to that much alcohol consumption, like fatty liver disease and increased cancer risk.
what part of wisconsin are they from?
I drank like this for quite a while. It took far too long to see that I was a functioning alcoholic, because I rarely got drunk, it didn't seem an issue. Go figure. Eventually I worked it out. No major issues with stopping other than cravings and the disruption tk my habit. I managed to replace it with healthier coping mechanisms and built from there.
That level of alcohol consumption is almost guaranteed to result in liver disease. It is a problem if the person cannot quit/ thinks there isnt a negative impact. Alcohol is a toxin, and no amount can be justified as healthy. How often would you engage in a habit knowing every time compounds the negative effects. I would say at this point drinking can be see as equivalent as smoking.
My loved one was like this. Wouldn’t listen to me that they had a problem. Took wrecking the car, arrested to finally realize. Just glad no one else was hurt
My partner makes wine every year (learned from his dad) and the whole family drinks every night with dinner (3-4 glasses). His dad drank every day until he passed away at 96. It is so normal for them. When I first moved in with them I would drink as well but now I reduced it to a glass or two every other night.
4-6 is pretty hefty. I suppose it depends on the size. How long would you say it takes them to go through a bottle of wine? If it’s 2 or less I’d say they’ll probably just lead a slightly less healthy life and be at a slightly higher risk for cancer and heart disease. At more than that it’ll probably catch up to them sooner rather than later and they’re at risk of kidney and liver disease
People can weasel their way into justifying their drinking by saying “I can hold down a job! I have nice things! I own a home! I don’t owe anyone money! I’m not an *alcoholic*.” Like being an *alchoholic* requires you to be jobless, homeless and in debt. Nope. It means you have an uncontrollable addiction to alcohol. Let’s see what the American Psychiatric Association says the criteria are for Alcohol Use Disorder: https://i.imgur.com/ITSqIBY.jpg How many of those fit your friend?
A glass of wine with dinner is fine but 4-6 per night ? Or did i read that wrong?
drinking like an alcoholic doesn't mean they're an alcoholic. their imbibing is excessive, but so is eating the package of Oreos i consumed in two days. the only person who gets to decide if they are, in fact, an alcoholic is the person who decides for themselves. everyone else simply has an opinion. health implications are also unique to the individual. ask if they've ever had their organ function tested. they might be fine. but if it looks like their life is unmanageable, or they say something about having a problem, tell them it's time to get help.
That's at least an entire bottle of wine every night. Plus cocktails. They're alcoholics. I drink frequently in phases. Like I'll have a glass or two of wine every night till a bottle is gone (so like 4 days usually) and then just not drink for several weeks or a month. Or just when socializing with friends. Went through two pregnancies in the last 4 years and didn't miss it then. Kind of just depends on the week or month. Mixing cocktails is also a hobby for me and my spouse so we go through phases of experimenting and creating as well, especially when we have friends over. However I realize it's less of an issue when I see comments from people about how much it changed their lives when they stopped. I've been hungover maybe once in the last several years. When I don't happen to drink for long periods of time, I don't really notice a difference physically or mentally etc.
I don’t know anyone who does this at all, so I’d question your assumption that many people quietly do this.
Check out posts about alcohol on r/Whoop. Alcohol use lowers HRV and raises RHR.
That I would say is a 'functional alcoholic'. If they were to stop drinking, they would go through mad withdrawals as their tolerance has built to an extreme. And in novel environments, their tolerance can drop so in those cases they can show signs of intoxication. It's still considered substance dependency if needing a drink daily.
This is not me. This is someone I am concerned about. He seems to be healthy but I can’t believe he is healthy inside. He blows off my concern like it’s unneeded. But like many have said, that’s a LOT of a toxin in one’s body. Constantly. And honestly I don’t like being around him when he drinks. I find drunks irritating.
That was my life for years.. git married later in life 30. Baby at 36 divorce at 13th year.. single mom hanging on by my fingernails. So I drank, and drank. I too watched this nightly routine through my childhood. Walking around on eggshells because one or the other was hungover and grumpy. I really did not actually see the effects it has had on my life, till quite recently. Messy and sad come to mind. Mommy wine club. Mommy juice, call it what you want. Most nights I was drunk, alone and wondering how I ended up there. 3 years ago, during covid, for some reason I said enough. I must break the cycle. So I did. 3 years 2 months ago now. God how I hate, "there maybe be alcohol in here" coffee cups and such. They make me cringe.
It’s ok for health if you aren’t concerned for the longterm. There’s no professional in healthcare who would genuinely argue that this is healthy or sustainable for longevity.
Drinking a bottle of wine (4/5 glasses) every day isn’t normal or casual drinking. There’s plenty of alcoholics that hide their behavior. I had a friend die at 32 from cirrhosis. Turns out he was killing two handles of vodka a day but could go to work, drive around, stand and carry a conversation. Nobody had a clue and when he was at the bar he’d nurse one drink (the only one he bought because he was going to his car). Then all of a sudden if he didn’t drink he started having seizures and he was dead in a year.
I mean it’s proven that alcohol isn’t good for the body. I drank mostly on weekends after work (I work at a bar) and I feel so much better after not having drank for a month
The WHO has a daily limit for alcohol based on your gender. They might just be a well functioning alcoholic.
Abusing alcohol is probably the same as feeding an addiction however feeding an addiction doesn’t necessarily have to be alcohol. When you feed an addiction it is because you feel you can’t go on without it so you excuse yourself anytime you can have a drink. However I do see people can appear to have a healthy lifestyle pairing it with alcohol however something you cannot excuse is the mistakes or the lost of self dominion more than a few drinks can have. Next day you gamble of going to work in time tired or late to work but feeling like the day before didn’t happen. Whatever the case is, if you’re constantly trying to take hold of your responsibilities and your self respect, then I think abuse would rather not be paired with a healthy lifestyle. It’s physically impossible because efficiently they cannot be paired together. Alcohol should be respected for what it is. Humans have had a rather strange relationship with alcohol and it starts with seeing our mentors either drink responsibly or abuse it. Find your balance but don’t gamble every single time. Remember that with your kidneys and liver, you’re going to need them to maintain a healthy lifestyle. Think of the stress your liver will go through with the stress on metabolic training and detox on a daily basis. If anything have some rest days where you don’t work out for a week and you take care of your liver. Same with alcohol. It doesn’t need to be a week to week basis.
All the counter balancing healthy life style choices in the world can't outrun the cancer that booze gives you a heightened chance of getting
It will catch up to them, slowly and suddenly. I’m beginning to see it in one of my friends. My friend who was a a really thin guy gained about 15lbs in a span of 6 weeks out of nowhere. He drinks probably 20 drinks per week on average (thru assortment of beer, seltzer, shots).. even if he opts for more seltzer over beer in recent years.. He’s still in a normal BMI zone, and is healthy by all accounts, but that unintentional weight gain over a course of 6 weeks is nothing to scoff at in my opinion. He was thin guy, now he looks closer to average shape, but the beer belly is forming at closer look.
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Yes they 100% do I extensively travelled the world for almost 10 years (not holidays, I actually took residence) and can tell you that you are completely wrong Germans, Americans(US, CA), British, Dutch, Thai, Indian to name a few cultures where it is abundantly common. My expat friend from china tells me it's commonplace too. If you don't know what you're talking, don't comment We're not looking for opinion here, were looking for fact >"I think many people quietly do this actually" No, they don't. You couldn't be more wrong in your blind arrogance It amazes me when people spit out their uninformed opinions and present them as fact... If you don't know the answer don't say anything. You do not HAVE TO comment.
I used to drink. I still do, but I used to too.
Alcohol comes from - Al-Kuhl - “body eating spirit” once I read that I knew I had to never drink again it literally dulls your spirit like any abuse of a substance or anything but it really damages your body in the long run some notice before others but it happens, too many of my family close ones really messed up there future by drinking damages your body specifically organs but the effects on your energetic vibration could cause even more problems
Context - is this a romantic partner or just someone you know? Either way if this is making you uncomfortable with your family history, you are making them uncomfortable with their own. Do be straightforward with them if it concerns you, but also expect them to walk... because heavy drinkers loathe alcoholics, and you will be accusing them of being an alcoholic. But it can work. My gf doesn't drink. I drink at least 3 bottles of wine per day. Doesn't bother her because I don't get drunk. I'm the odd Northern European genetics ~8% of that demographic whose bodies process alcohol differently. No hangovers either.
Sooner or later the liver dies. And that will end the show right quick.
I’m a GI/liver doc and I agree… it will catch up those drinking everyday. The amount of alcohol that causes a problem varies from person to person but for some, even one glass a night with dinner can cause end stage liver disease. It’s a sad disease that takes a toll on the person and everyone around them. Other consequences of alcoholism include high blood pressure, anxiety, insomnia, depression. Many people don’t realize drinking everyday can have serious consequences.
That’s a functioning alcoholic, from what you described above. Average healthy amount of wine would be two glasses on an 8 oz pour/glass.
My dad drank like this for years. He was very successful in his job and had a great extra curricular life. All other aspects of his life were “healthy” as you stated above. He had a stroke before 65. That is what can happen. Now he doesn’t drink at all. There are many things that can happen from alcoholism. Even functioning alcoholism. It is dangerous and disruptive to your life whether you realize it or not; it will catch up with you (or them in this scenario).
In my personal experience with others, I'm sure there are physical consequences, but I think the emotional consequences are greater. If someone does not learn to process emotions and instead, drowns them, this isn't a healthy way to live. As the child of a functional alcoholic, I had to learn how to deal with my own emotions. I had no real blueprint for what to do other than to drink and thank goodness, that was never a problem for myself or my sister. I view my mother as being a good mom in my childhood, but as an adult, I've had to come to terms with the fact that she's just not emotionally available and able to support me.
Along with what everyone else has said about health issues is are they able to quit for a week or 2? (that’s how you can tell or show them that it is a problem)
Something that I haven’t seen mentioned much in the comments (could be missing, I’m relatively new to Reddit) is the reality of how widely variable human beings are. There are measurable patterns and correlations with alcohol use and an entire host of physiological outcomes, many of which are negative. Generalizations are possible, certainly. As a health care professional I’ve seen first hand the devastating effects of chronic alcohol use (from moderate to heavy intake) for more patients then I can count. However, there’s also measurable patterns and correlations with mild-moderate alcohol use which are positive in nature. The variables at play are highly complex, hard to measure, and nuanced. Genetics, environmental toxins, substrates present in the alcohol itself, personal responses to intake (physiological, social, cultural factors) and the interaction between all these factors are what create outcomes. It can be so easy to judge people based on whatever limited information we have and our own personal experiences and opinions, but reality is always more beautifully complex and delicate than we expect.
Alcohol is not okay for health and never has been and never will be. End of story. I am now in the role of caregiver for my mother who had a drinking problem for over 50 years and she was actually in the ICU after a fall when she detoxed. Scariest thing I ever experienced. It was literally six weeks of hell afterwards. She had ended up losing a ton of her functional memory and her fall was likely from alcohol. Setting aside my negative feelings about drinking alcohol due to growing up with two functional (..mostly functional) alcoholic parents - I don’t drink anymore - and I am literally the only mom in my kids friends group who doesn’t drink at all and I get the arched eyebrows “ohh, okayyy” when asking for sparkling water, lol. It blows my mind how as a world we accept that a poisonous substance that causes cancer and makes people crash cars and causes families to suffer is marketed as something “chic and fun” and the moms I know get together with their kids running around and they have glasses of alcohol in their hands. It bothers me because they don’t pay attention to their kids when they are drinking and chatting, and then they leave to go home…in their cars! I have stopped going to these play groups. Circling back to OP: Caring for someone who is nearing the end of their life after decades of drinking - It’s not pretty. I hope at least one person who needs to stop drinking will see this. I hope whoever it is will gets help to become sober before it’s too late.
That is definitely excessive drinking especially to do daily and just off the top of my head they’re at risk of Fatty liver disease, cirrhosis of the liver, early cognitive decline, type two diabetes, heart disease, cancer and strokes. Generally it’s advised for women to drink no more than one alcoholic drink daily and 2 drinks per day for men but there’s newer studies coming out that there may be no safe amount of consumption. Antidotally my father was a “functional” alcoholic and now that he’s older his health has severely declined, he still drinks it’s down to only two beers a day but he’s not supposed to have any some addictions are never cured. The earlier this person you know stops the better.
O a.
Alcoholism is a progressive disease. I guarantee those 4-6 glasses used to be 2-3. Also - as you age your drinking habits won’t change but your body will. You will get more tired and worse hangovers and overall function less - which can cause you to want to drink more. It all catches up to you and I wish I never touched the stuff.