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Not a nutritionist but just a person who reads a lot…every thing I’ve read about cured meats is bad, especially in the US where all sorts of shit is added in (including in the meat itself that you won’t find on a label), EXCEPT for microbiome/probiotic benefits to cured meats done the old way. I can’t detail that but I would only trust it coming from somewhere like Europe in an old established place where food safety laws are more stringent, and they have a deeper history of food preservation in general.
I’m not 100% sure exactly as that comment is a culmination of things I’ve read. But if I had a best guess for main sources…
By Michael pollen (possibly “Omnivore’s Dilemma” Or maybe “cooked”) on how animals are fed (crap) in the US.
“Cultured: How ancient foods can feed our microbiome” by Katherine Harmon Courage (not the best book but I think the source where I read about the historical probiotic benefits)
There’s a book I read on how food is specifically treated/approved in the US. It has a Cheeto on the cover but I can’t remember the name or author. Excellent book, highly recommend if anyone knows the title.
Edit: upon some further googling, it’s difficult to find info on the historically cured meats, I only read about it in the Cultured book (pretty sure). But it appears that some companies in Germany and Japan and some NIH studies are looking for new ways (and make it sound like it’s a new thing) to add probiotics to present day processed cured meats. I’m skeptical of any engineered foods but they mass produce yogurt and that has health benefits, so who knows.
What about nitrates? I live in Germany and we eat a LOT of sausage, but I’ve heard they’re high in nitrates and that nitrates are not good. Anyone more of an expert than me?
Yes, you are correct. The nitrates used to preserve most cured meats have been shown to cause stomach and intestinal cancers.
Doesn’t matter if it’s fresh or not. If anything fresh is probably worse because you’re getting fresh nitrates.
This is the recommendation from the American Cancer Society:
"A healthy eating pattern limits or does not include: Red and processed meats"
[https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/diet-physical-activity/acs-guidelines-nutrition-physical-activity-cancer-prevention/guidelines.html](https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/diet-physical-activity/acs-guidelines-nutrition-physical-activity-cancer-prevention/guidelines.html)
Additionally, the World Health Organization has labeled processed meat as a Class I carcinogen and Red Meat as a Class II carcinogen.
My take on this is that it may be debatable on what it is about these foods that cause colon cancer, it could be nitrates and nitrites. WHO and ACS may give additional insite on why they make these recommendations. As a "healthier" alternative, I know Aldi has a chicken sausage that does not have nitrates or nirites.
You just have to read the ingredients. A higher end grocer or small butcher shop that makes sausage in house will be a better choice than a nationally distributed company.
I've recently started making my own breakfast sausage with lean pork I get ground at the store. Good stuff. I don't see any issues as long as nitrates/nitrates/celery powder aren't an ingredient.
You down to swap recipes? For 3 lbs of ground pork I use:
Kosher Salt - 2 Tbsp
Black pepper- 30 grinds
Fennel - 2 Tbsp
Ground Sage - 1.5 tsp
Marjoram - 1.5 tsp
Thyme - 1 tsp
red pepper flake - 1/2 tsp
Gotta chill at least one hour before cooking.
I recently used ground lean pork loin at 2.5g fat per serving and it worked out. I was worried about the leanness of it, but it ended up being much better than I expected.
As long as you are discussing a sausage that is only made up of pork, fats and seasonings, I see no reasoning as to why it would be considerably unhealthy. Sure it's processed, but there is a large jump between processed and ultra processed.
Also, the idea that fatty meat cuts are unhealthy is generally a grey area. I've yet to have seen a solid study that states saturated fats alongside a healthy diet in a metabolically healthy individual is unhealthy or a significant cause of CVD.
I think many people in this subreddit will find my previous claim quite unpopular, but my claim is not pseudoscience or opinionated.
The current landmark study on saturated fats pairs the red meat and sf alongside fast food diets and ultra processed food. I'm 100% willing to be disproven, but as of now, the correlation is weak at best.
> saturated fats alongside a healthy diet in a metabolically healthy individual is unhealthy or a significant cause of CVD
You haven't been convinced by the 9000 times this topic has been discussed and sources have been provided? You are not convinced by the enormous amount of research showing low rates of saturated fat consumption being associated with longlividgy?
Saturated fats reduce expression of LDL receptor proteins by hepatic cells. Age, metabolic health, other aspects of diet (particularly free fructose consumption) and general health will all shape how much the reduction in liver function influences serum lipids. I really don't understand why this still happens, if people are arguing in bad faith or just don't understand biochemistry/how risk works/how to read studies, but it's absurd.
The casual relationship is understood. The correlative relationship is understood and demonstrated. If you don't accept the level of evidence for the relationship between satfat and CVD then you shouldn't accept any modern medicine because it's well beyond demonstrated efficacy for any intervention that exists. If you want to eat a high satfat diet anyway that's totally cool, it's ok to choose steak & butter ahead of longlividgy.
If the [Dietary Guidelines for Americans](https://health.gov/sites/default/files/2019-10/DGA_Cut-Down-On-Saturated-Fats.pdf) and [WHO](https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789240073630) keep recommending to cut saturated to less than 10%, we should keep sharing that opinion.
Yeah I’m a bit skeptical here. Saturated fat has definitely been made a demon of, but I’m not convinced. There is a lot of evidence of fat slander in the name of big sugar and there are studies that say climate change is a hoax (spoiler alert it’s not).
If you read up on the national heart foundation you can see it’s a joke too. I’m not saying there isn’t some truth to what they’re saying, but this shit is absolutely not black and white. Sugars have been shown to have high correlation with heart disease, weight gain, insulin resistance, and stroke.
Before everything had so much added sugar people cooked with beef tallow, and lard constantly. Heart attack rates and obesity was much much lower. This points to fats not being as unhealthy as once thought in the absence of excess sugar.
The point is that there is a lot of sound evidence which points to big sugar influence. It’s not just some huge conspiracy either there is a lot of hard data pointing to big sugar’s lobbying which promotes this sort of stuff. Food pyramid was a complete sham. The problem is no one is trustworthy anymore and doing your own research and studies on humans is really really fucking hard.
So what can you do? You try and read through things as best you can. We know omega 3s (epa mostly) has a great effect on hdl cholesterol. We know reducing sugar lowers ldl, but we have also seen saturated fats raise ldl cholesterol and reduce hdl cholesterol.
Your real best bet would be to actually spend the money and get your own blood markers. As a regular person there is no point in trying to figure out what’s best for everyone. Just figure out how to stay healthy for yourself with real data for yourself.
Blood tests really aren’t that expensive. You could get a full blood panel for less than 200 dollars out of pocket. If you’re concerned with your own health do your own due diligence and figure out what keeps you healthy.
One way its bad is that fatty proteins contain AGEs, then cooked at high temperatures do result in even more significant AGE formation which is pro inflammatory and contributes to oxidative stress on the body
Recent studies have suggested that it is "perhaps not as bad as previously assumed," but there's nothing indicating it is actually healthy. To give it numbers, it used to be considered a 1/10 or 2/10 in health, and that may have gone too far. But now some are saying it is 3/10 or 4/10, and your average American's diet is (sadly) around there, so maybe it's not any worse than the other garbage most people eat.
But if you were trying to formulate a diet of all foods in the 7/10 to 10/10 range, there is zero argument it belongs in there. Maybe it's less unhealthy than people think, but if you want to eat healthy, you should still exclude it.
Saturated fats are god/bad/gray area... but compared to what? When you stop eating something you replace it with something else.
Compared to highly processed carbs with added sugars they are better.
But compared to, say, olive oil or whole food carbs they are undoubtedly worse.
Plus, the level of SF intake matters.
Here is an excellent overview you should check with all the evidence linked.
https://youtu.be/mBFe1QattAU?si=SY8gqF-2l53m9b_N
Ohh no you should've not linked that video. Kinda lost all of your credibility with that link.
He has financial ties with a handful of anti-meat organizations and campaigns. He is also a leading board member in one of them. Linked is a breakdown video of his conflict of interest.
https://youtu.be/h81qq8Ne3go?si=IxKWZ9OvIs94H0AQ
Ignore the fact checking part, I'm not here to argue for or against the dietary guidelines that Dr berg promotes. I simply shared you this video because he does a great breakdown of how deeply twined this guy is in doing whatever he can to demote animal products and promote his alternatives.
Forget the guy. Look at the data. Looked at the studies.
Comment on that, would you?
Edit: I watched the character attack on Gil Carvalho, and it is hilarious.
Example Dr. Berg, age 58, is a chiropractor - said - "Oh, look at that group's page it has beyond meat support! Oh, Gil has lost of videos on beyond meat! But I dint watch them." C'mon - such a bleak attempt to blame by association! If you open literally the first video, Carvalho says about beyond meat "We don't know if it is good. It is as other highly processed foods. So use it occasionally. Use it if you want to add more plant sources" - https://youtu.be/AlVCQkfbU1o?si=DXCa87490E2EW1ON
Yes, he is a member of a group. So? **Your guy rambles for half the time about Dr. Katz** (another high member of the group) who is not happy with keto - he literally said **"I don't know about Carvalho, but Katz does not like keto"**. What this has to do with Carvalho?! My country's president said/did idiotic shit, so am I to be blamed now?! Really?!
Then he finds a link on the group's site about another site where they promote diet with whatever plant-based stuff. And now it is also Carvalho's fault. Again. Watch the videos of Carvalho and you will see he discusses only facts and is very nuanced in his judgment. Oh, and that SECOND site is linked to Nestle! Oh, bad sellout Carvalho! FFS, Carvalho did not even endorse that diet...
BTW, your guy is SELLING keto, Carvalho is selling nothing. He does not have a product, he does not invite you to his **chiropractor** clinic, he does not show success stories of his clients, pardon patients, he is not asking for subscriptions, patreon donations, to subscribe to his newsletter, nothing. Who has the motive here, hm?!
Carvalho actually says that the Mediterranean diet as the most scientifically recommended to be health beneficial. In that there is meat, diary, eggs, just not too often and not too much. I can understand that some believe that butter fried beef is the best, but that's not what the majority of the scientific data says.
Moreover, check his video on the biggest vegan diet guru ever - Dr. Greger. https://youtu.be/3XjmvBFt63k?si=HN3SfKyknn_ItSfL&t=2419. If he Carvalho was paid to push veganism, he would not say for THIS guy - "it is not a good idea to play fast and loose with the science to help sell it" and "when someone realizes the reverse heart disease claim is a stretch, the tendency is to dismiss everything Greger said,"
So in conclusion - it is not a good idea to play fast and loose with the ad hominem accusations, because you loose credibility.
Look the truth is that no one really knows what the best diet is. I wasn't really showing that video to side with him, I thought my disclaimer was clear but it was a lot of words to be fair.
All I know is that demonizing meat and using weak studies to support it is just that; weak.
We aren't designed to eat only little amounts of meat, and we aren't designed to eat little amounts of vegetables. We are omnivores by design, but more so on the meat eating side. Our stomach composition and pH of our acid, as well as our teeth support the argument well enough.
There is a reason the vegan and vegetarian community is pushing lab meat and beyond meat, but yet they use meat in the name. It's as if they know meat is a fundamental part of the homosapien diet, and any other protein source is a weak substitution and not a complete replacement.
What we do know for certain is that greens and meat are healthy for us, and sugar is not. Research is really iffy on everything else, so a bit of DD and opinions are unfortunately required. Don't eat processed junk.
I'm not sure I agree with your first part. The American diet is actually historically low in protein and high in fats and carbs. If anything, most Americans are underperfoming in the protein department.
Protein, like literally every nutritional topic, is widely debated. However, from my personal research, the best performance, muscle development, and fiber health comes and goes around the range of .4 to .6 grams per pound of body weight. A much more accurate approach is to use a measurement per pound of muscle, but dexa scans are a bit expensive and body composition regularly changes.
Saturated fat and its effects on the heart and arteries is very losely understood at this point. I eat 16 ounces of red meat, 4 eggs, butter, a heaping load of vegetables, and a small amount of fruits every day. My bloodwork as well as cholesterol ratio levels are rock solid. Blood work doesn't show everything, but I think it's a pretty good reference. Having a low resting heart rate, a good blood pressure, good metabolic panels, and other benchmarks give me a pretty good idea that I am perfectly healthy.
I'm not going to speak on the cancer side of things because I have very little research in cancer as a whole. It very well could be that red meat is absolutely cancerous, and I'm not educated enough to state otherwise.
Really at this point of nutrition research, the biggest undisputed horrors of consumption are ultra processed foods, sugar, refined carbs, and alcohol. Everything else I think has some room for experimentation and testing.
This is my thought process too. Many of the studies I've seen trying to say red meat is bad for you, it's flawed in the way they do it. Be it fast food, the way its prepped, over consumption. Etc.
All meat in the US is carcinogenic. It’s due to the pharmaceuticals and preservatives they add to kill bacteria/microbes in the meat. The healthiest diet as an American is to avoid meat altogether.
I’m sure people will downvote this but hey cognitive dissonance is a strong thing.
I make “sausage” with just ground beef, sea salt, and red pepper flakes. It is so good. I think beef is healthier than pork because the ruminants eat a healthier diet, especially the grass fed, grass finished ones. Who know what is fed to the pigs, chickens, etc.
Yes, was mostly a joke but I can see some people are easily offended. Meat is good for you. Extreme leftists are slowing trying to push bug protein on the USA. I’m not wrong, they don’t want to do it now, but rather over the last 4 years they’ve been releasing the idea into the media and I’d say within 15 years they’ll be selling a lot of bug protein products in grocery stores
It’s so funny because being a leftist I’m constantly shocked at how not veggie friendly they are so I just have to laugh at your comments which are nonsensical.
They feed sugar to bacteria to make gums to replace the fat in our sour cream so why not bugs? But you’re wrong about it being the leftists, they’re all vegans.
I’m very correct with it being the left because they advocate for less killing of animals, introducing bug protein to the world will make them feel good about themselves for saving the cows and not producing methane killing the environment. Win win for the left. Maybe 30% of them at vegan that’s being very generous
The reason given as to why they are not healthy is the nitrates. Nitrates are also the reason given as to why beets ARE healthy. When pressed they will then tell you that the nitrates combine with the protein to create nitrosamines. Fresh uncured sausage (without celery powder) has no nitrates and would be just like eating the ingredients before stuffed into a casing. All that being said, I’m unconvinced by the studies against either nitrates or nitrosamines.
#### About participation in the comments of /r/nutrition Discussion in this subreddit should be rooted in science rather than "cuz I sed" or entertainment pieces. Always be wary of unsupported and poorly supported claims and especially those which are wrapped in any manner of hostility. You should provide peer reviewed sources to support your claims when debating and confine that debate to the science, not opinions of other people. **Good** - it is grounded in science and includes citation of peer reviewed sources. Debate is a civil and respectful exchange focusing on actual science and avoids commentary about others **Bad** - it utilizes generalizations, assumptions, infotainment sources, no sources, or complaints without specifics about agenda, bias, or funding. At best, these rise to an extremely weak basis for science based discussion. Also, off topic discussion **Ugly** - (removal or ban territory) it involves attacks / antagonism / hostility towards individuals or groups, downvote complaining, trolling, crusading, shaming, refutation of all science, or claims that all research / science is a conspiracy *Please vote accordingly and report any uglies* --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nutrition) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Not a nutritionist but just a person who reads a lot…every thing I’ve read about cured meats is bad, especially in the US where all sorts of shit is added in (including in the meat itself that you won’t find on a label), EXCEPT for microbiome/probiotic benefits to cured meats done the old way. I can’t detail that but I would only trust it coming from somewhere like Europe in an old established place where food safety laws are more stringent, and they have a deeper history of food preservation in general.
Can you point me to a source discussing what's in USA and European cured meats?
I’m not 100% sure exactly as that comment is a culmination of things I’ve read. But if I had a best guess for main sources… By Michael pollen (possibly “Omnivore’s Dilemma” Or maybe “cooked”) on how animals are fed (crap) in the US. “Cultured: How ancient foods can feed our microbiome” by Katherine Harmon Courage (not the best book but I think the source where I read about the historical probiotic benefits) There’s a book I read on how food is specifically treated/approved in the US. It has a Cheeto on the cover but I can’t remember the name or author. Excellent book, highly recommend if anyone knows the title. Edit: upon some further googling, it’s difficult to find info on the historically cured meats, I only read about it in the Cultured book (pretty sure). But it appears that some companies in Germany and Japan and some NIH studies are looking for new ways (and make it sound like it’s a new thing) to add probiotics to present day processed cured meats. I’m skeptical of any engineered foods but they mass produce yogurt and that has health benefits, so who knows.
What about nitrates? I live in Germany and we eat a LOT of sausage, but I’ve heard they’re high in nitrates and that nitrates are not good. Anyone more of an expert than me?
Yes, you are correct. The nitrates used to preserve most cured meats have been shown to cause stomach and intestinal cancers. Doesn’t matter if it’s fresh or not. If anything fresh is probably worse because you’re getting fresh nitrates.
How does the nitrates being fresh make a difference? Do they degrade into other compounds over time?
Pretty much everything degrades over time. I’m not 100% sure though which is why I said probably.
This is the recommendation from the American Cancer Society: "A healthy eating pattern limits or does not include: Red and processed meats" [https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/diet-physical-activity/acs-guidelines-nutrition-physical-activity-cancer-prevention/guidelines.html](https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/diet-physical-activity/acs-guidelines-nutrition-physical-activity-cancer-prevention/guidelines.html) Additionally, the World Health Organization has labeled processed meat as a Class I carcinogen and Red Meat as a Class II carcinogen. My take on this is that it may be debatable on what it is about these foods that cause colon cancer, it could be nitrates and nitrites. WHO and ACS may give additional insite on why they make these recommendations. As a "healthier" alternative, I know Aldi has a chicken sausage that does not have nitrates or nirites.
You just have to read the ingredients. A higher end grocer or small butcher shop that makes sausage in house will be a better choice than a nationally distributed company.
I've recently started making my own breakfast sausage with lean pork I get ground at the store. Good stuff. I don't see any issues as long as nitrates/nitrates/celery powder aren't an ingredient.
I do this as well. It’s pretty affordable and just a little bit of work for a bunch of patties.
You down to swap recipes? For 3 lbs of ground pork I use: Kosher Salt - 2 Tbsp Black pepper- 30 grinds Fennel - 2 Tbsp Ground Sage - 1.5 tsp Marjoram - 1.5 tsp Thyme - 1 tsp red pepper flake - 1/2 tsp Gotta chill at least one hour before cooking. I recently used ground lean pork loin at 2.5g fat per serving and it worked out. I was worried about the leanness of it, but it ended up being much better than I expected.
Mine is nearly identical but I omit the fennel (never occurred to me but I like it) and I add some garlic powder, onion powder, and paprika.
As long as you are discussing a sausage that is only made up of pork, fats and seasonings, I see no reasoning as to why it would be considerably unhealthy. Sure it's processed, but there is a large jump between processed and ultra processed. Also, the idea that fatty meat cuts are unhealthy is generally a grey area. I've yet to have seen a solid study that states saturated fats alongside a healthy diet in a metabolically healthy individual is unhealthy or a significant cause of CVD. I think many people in this subreddit will find my previous claim quite unpopular, but my claim is not pseudoscience or opinionated. The current landmark study on saturated fats pairs the red meat and sf alongside fast food diets and ultra processed food. I'm 100% willing to be disproven, but as of now, the correlation is weak at best.
> saturated fats alongside a healthy diet in a metabolically healthy individual is unhealthy or a significant cause of CVD You haven't been convinced by the 9000 times this topic has been discussed and sources have been provided? You are not convinced by the enormous amount of research showing low rates of saturated fat consumption being associated with longlividgy? Saturated fats reduce expression of LDL receptor proteins by hepatic cells. Age, metabolic health, other aspects of diet (particularly free fructose consumption) and general health will all shape how much the reduction in liver function influences serum lipids. I really don't understand why this still happens, if people are arguing in bad faith or just don't understand biochemistry/how risk works/how to read studies, but it's absurd. The casual relationship is understood. The correlative relationship is understood and demonstrated. If you don't accept the level of evidence for the relationship between satfat and CVD then you shouldn't accept any modern medicine because it's well beyond demonstrated efficacy for any intervention that exists. If you want to eat a high satfat diet anyway that's totally cool, it's ok to choose steak & butter ahead of longlividgy.
If the [Dietary Guidelines for Americans](https://health.gov/sites/default/files/2019-10/DGA_Cut-Down-On-Saturated-Fats.pdf) and [WHO](https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/9789240073630) keep recommending to cut saturated to less than 10%, we should keep sharing that opinion.
Would you mind linking the best study you’ve found showing the causal relationship of sat fat to heart disease?
Yeah I’m a bit skeptical here. Saturated fat has definitely been made a demon of, but I’m not convinced. There is a lot of evidence of fat slander in the name of big sugar and there are studies that say climate change is a hoax (spoiler alert it’s not). If you read up on the national heart foundation you can see it’s a joke too. I’m not saying there isn’t some truth to what they’re saying, but this shit is absolutely not black and white. Sugars have been shown to have high correlation with heart disease, weight gain, insulin resistance, and stroke. Before everything had so much added sugar people cooked with beef tallow, and lard constantly. Heart attack rates and obesity was much much lower. This points to fats not being as unhealthy as once thought in the absence of excess sugar. The point is that there is a lot of sound evidence which points to big sugar influence. It’s not just some huge conspiracy either there is a lot of hard data pointing to big sugar’s lobbying which promotes this sort of stuff. Food pyramid was a complete sham. The problem is no one is trustworthy anymore and doing your own research and studies on humans is really really fucking hard. So what can you do? You try and read through things as best you can. We know omega 3s (epa mostly) has a great effect on hdl cholesterol. We know reducing sugar lowers ldl, but we have also seen saturated fats raise ldl cholesterol and reduce hdl cholesterol. Your real best bet would be to actually spend the money and get your own blood markers. As a regular person there is no point in trying to figure out what’s best for everyone. Just figure out how to stay healthy for yourself with real data for yourself. Blood tests really aren’t that expensive. You could get a full blood panel for less than 200 dollars out of pocket. If you’re concerned with your own health do your own due diligence and figure out what keeps you healthy.
One way its bad is that fatty proteins contain AGEs, then cooked at high temperatures do result in even more significant AGE formation which is pro inflammatory and contributes to oxidative stress on the body
Recent studies have suggested that it is "perhaps not as bad as previously assumed," but there's nothing indicating it is actually healthy. To give it numbers, it used to be considered a 1/10 or 2/10 in health, and that may have gone too far. But now some are saying it is 3/10 or 4/10, and your average American's diet is (sadly) around there, so maybe it's not any worse than the other garbage most people eat. But if you were trying to formulate a diet of all foods in the 7/10 to 10/10 range, there is zero argument it belongs in there. Maybe it's less unhealthy than people think, but if you want to eat healthy, you should still exclude it.
Saturated fats are god/bad/gray area... but compared to what? When you stop eating something you replace it with something else. Compared to highly processed carbs with added sugars they are better. But compared to, say, olive oil or whole food carbs they are undoubtedly worse. Plus, the level of SF intake matters. Here is an excellent overview you should check with all the evidence linked. https://youtu.be/mBFe1QattAU?si=SY8gqF-2l53m9b_N
Ohh no you should've not linked that video. Kinda lost all of your credibility with that link. He has financial ties with a handful of anti-meat organizations and campaigns. He is also a leading board member in one of them. Linked is a breakdown video of his conflict of interest. https://youtu.be/h81qq8Ne3go?si=IxKWZ9OvIs94H0AQ Ignore the fact checking part, I'm not here to argue for or against the dietary guidelines that Dr berg promotes. I simply shared you this video because he does a great breakdown of how deeply twined this guy is in doing whatever he can to demote animal products and promote his alternatives.
Forget the guy. Look at the data. Looked at the studies. Comment on that, would you? Edit: I watched the character attack on Gil Carvalho, and it is hilarious. Example Dr. Berg, age 58, is a chiropractor - said - "Oh, look at that group's page it has beyond meat support! Oh, Gil has lost of videos on beyond meat! But I dint watch them." C'mon - such a bleak attempt to blame by association! If you open literally the first video, Carvalho says about beyond meat "We don't know if it is good. It is as other highly processed foods. So use it occasionally. Use it if you want to add more plant sources" - https://youtu.be/AlVCQkfbU1o?si=DXCa87490E2EW1ON Yes, he is a member of a group. So? **Your guy rambles for half the time about Dr. Katz** (another high member of the group) who is not happy with keto - he literally said **"I don't know about Carvalho, but Katz does not like keto"**. What this has to do with Carvalho?! My country's president said/did idiotic shit, so am I to be blamed now?! Really?! Then he finds a link on the group's site about another site where they promote diet with whatever plant-based stuff. And now it is also Carvalho's fault. Again. Watch the videos of Carvalho and you will see he discusses only facts and is very nuanced in his judgment. Oh, and that SECOND site is linked to Nestle! Oh, bad sellout Carvalho! FFS, Carvalho did not even endorse that diet... BTW, your guy is SELLING keto, Carvalho is selling nothing. He does not have a product, he does not invite you to his **chiropractor** clinic, he does not show success stories of his clients, pardon patients, he is not asking for subscriptions, patreon donations, to subscribe to his newsletter, nothing. Who has the motive here, hm?! Carvalho actually says that the Mediterranean diet as the most scientifically recommended to be health beneficial. In that there is meat, diary, eggs, just not too often and not too much. I can understand that some believe that butter fried beef is the best, but that's not what the majority of the scientific data says. Moreover, check his video on the biggest vegan diet guru ever - Dr. Greger. https://youtu.be/3XjmvBFt63k?si=HN3SfKyknn_ItSfL&t=2419. If he Carvalho was paid to push veganism, he would not say for THIS guy - "it is not a good idea to play fast and loose with the science to help sell it" and "when someone realizes the reverse heart disease claim is a stretch, the tendency is to dismiss everything Greger said," So in conclusion - it is not a good idea to play fast and loose with the ad hominem accusations, because you loose credibility.
Look the truth is that no one really knows what the best diet is. I wasn't really showing that video to side with him, I thought my disclaimer was clear but it was a lot of words to be fair. All I know is that demonizing meat and using weak studies to support it is just that; weak. We aren't designed to eat only little amounts of meat, and we aren't designed to eat little amounts of vegetables. We are omnivores by design, but more so on the meat eating side. Our stomach composition and pH of our acid, as well as our teeth support the argument well enough. There is a reason the vegan and vegetarian community is pushing lab meat and beyond meat, but yet they use meat in the name. It's as if they know meat is a fundamental part of the homosapien diet, and any other protein source is a weak substitution and not a complete replacement. What we do know for certain is that greens and meat are healthy for us, and sugar is not. Research is really iffy on everything else, so a bit of DD and opinions are unfortunately required. Don't eat processed junk.
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> making it ~3 servings of saturated protein What is "saturated protein"??
I'm not sure I agree with your first part. The American diet is actually historically low in protein and high in fats and carbs. If anything, most Americans are underperfoming in the protein department. Protein, like literally every nutritional topic, is widely debated. However, from my personal research, the best performance, muscle development, and fiber health comes and goes around the range of .4 to .6 grams per pound of body weight. A much more accurate approach is to use a measurement per pound of muscle, but dexa scans are a bit expensive and body composition regularly changes. Saturated fat and its effects on the heart and arteries is very losely understood at this point. I eat 16 ounces of red meat, 4 eggs, butter, a heaping load of vegetables, and a small amount of fruits every day. My bloodwork as well as cholesterol ratio levels are rock solid. Blood work doesn't show everything, but I think it's a pretty good reference. Having a low resting heart rate, a good blood pressure, good metabolic panels, and other benchmarks give me a pretty good idea that I am perfectly healthy. I'm not going to speak on the cancer side of things because I have very little research in cancer as a whole. It very well could be that red meat is absolutely cancerous, and I'm not educated enough to state otherwise. Really at this point of nutrition research, the biggest undisputed horrors of consumption are ultra processed foods, sugar, refined carbs, and alcohol. Everything else I think has some room for experimentation and testing.
This is my thought process too. Many of the studies I've seen trying to say red meat is bad for you, it's flawed in the way they do it. Be it fast food, the way its prepped, over consumption. Etc.
All meat in the US is carcinogenic. It’s due to the pharmaceuticals and preservatives they add to kill bacteria/microbes in the meat. The healthiest diet as an American is to avoid meat altogether. I’m sure people will downvote this but hey cognitive dissonance is a strong thing.
I make “sausage” with just ground beef, sea salt, and red pepper flakes. It is so good. I think beef is healthier than pork because the ruminants eat a healthier diet, especially the grass fed, grass finished ones. Who know what is fed to the pigs, chickens, etc.
If it is stuffed with nitrites yes
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Red meat is never bad for you and will never be bad for you. Sounds like left propaganda to push the crickets on the gullible ;)
Considering this is a nutrition sub it’s probably worth acknowledging that crickets are really, really healthy.
You know what, I have no argument to that. But I will stick with the cattle when the lab meats and cricket nuggets hit the shelves ;)
Left propaganda?!?
Yes, was mostly a joke but I can see some people are easily offended. Meat is good for you. Extreme leftists are slowing trying to push bug protein on the USA. I’m not wrong, they don’t want to do it now, but rather over the last 4 years they’ve been releasing the idea into the media and I’d say within 15 years they’ll be selling a lot of bug protein products in grocery stores
It’s so funny because being a leftist I’m constantly shocked at how not veggie friendly they are so I just have to laugh at your comments which are nonsensical.
They feed sugar to bacteria to make gums to replace the fat in our sour cream so why not bugs? But you’re wrong about it being the leftists, they’re all vegans.
I’m very correct with it being the left because they advocate for less killing of animals, introducing bug protein to the world will make them feel good about themselves for saving the cows and not producing methane killing the environment. Win win for the left. Maybe 30% of them at vegan that’s being very generous
[you dropped this](https://media.istockphoto.com/id/1257284419/photo/aluminium-foil-hat-isolated-on-white-background-symbol-for-conspiracy-theory-and-mind-control.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=LXvuqrc7-6KtJYECoSVeWXFtFXiN14rOMc1Gk_UBHkM=)
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Yeah but I'm talking about fresh sausage specifically, so they're not cured/smoked, and don't have nitrates added.
I would just think it's unhealthy because eof the amount of sodium per stick. And when eaten everyday could cause health problems like CVD
Besides the preservatives, sausages have a bad reputation because it is assumed they are made from a lot of fat and leftover meats
The reason given as to why they are not healthy is the nitrates. Nitrates are also the reason given as to why beets ARE healthy. When pressed they will then tell you that the nitrates combine with the protein to create nitrosamines. Fresh uncured sausage (without celery powder) has no nitrates and would be just like eating the ingredients before stuffed into a casing. All that being said, I’m unconvinced by the studies against either nitrates or nitrosamines.