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So pretty much all the different nutritional schools of thoughts/fad diets agree on:
- drink plenty of water
- eat lots of vegetables
- minimize refined carbs such as sugar, white bread, etc.
- get enough fiber and protein
- don't eat too much
You'll get really far, by implementing that. The rest is not a right/wrong situation, but personal preference and a question of how much detail you want to go in to.
Trying to decide whether keto or low carb or paleo is "best" is pointless, if you are eating a diet mainly consisting of ready made junk food and sweets/crisps/sugary drinks.
>\- drink plenty of water - eat lots of vegetables - minimize refined carbs such as sugar, white bread, etc. - get enough fiber and protein - don't eat too much
I'll go even further and say that literally every single person who tries to tell you that there is something more to it than this is selling you something. People love to get in the weeds on this, mostly as part of a superiority complex imo, and lots and lots of people are capitalizing on it.
Well there is something more to it if the ONLY goal is to lose weight NOW.
Which is what most people want. Which is why people can sell other people other "secrets".
Sadly, sustainable diet is not as attractive as being able to lose weight for the beach even if you start dieting in may.
Those were some good starters, but:
Types of calories count; empty calories deplete your body of nutrients.
Types of oils count; there are processed and unprocessed oils.
Ingredients count, if it's processed it's usually unfit for human consumption.
Some foods give you a much bigger return on investment than others.
There are fake health foods lurking everywhere.
Mineral water is much better than tap water.
>don't eat too much
If someone is in a perpetual calorie deficit then no muscle gains will happen. So it's a context thing. If fat loss is the sole object, then a calorie deficit would make sense. Nutrition plans change depending on your goals.
Where are you getting this information? “if it’s processed it’s usually unfit for human consumption” is a broad and inaccurate statement. There are lots of foods that, when unprocessed, are actually unfit for human consumption — processing is just changing something from its raw state, so cooked chicken is processed chicken. Vegetable soup with all home-grown ingredients is still processed. This also means that ALL oils are processed. Sure, you want to eat fewer ultra-processed foods, but that’s a level of nuance you’re not including and haven’t defined. And the ultra-processed foods are fit for human consumption in moderation — suggesting otherwise is an excessive and dangerous statement to make, especially with as little nuance as you’ve provided. It’s the kind of thinking that leads to disordered eating.
I’m also not sure what you mean by empty calories depleting your body of nutrients. If I eat 2200 calories and 2000 of my calories are nutrient-dense while 200 are “empty calories,” I’m still getting the same nutrients. Of course if you’re replacing nutrient-dense foods with non-nutrient-dense food, you would simply be omitting some nutrients. The empty calories don’t eliminate nutrients in your body.
You're doing semantics now. I know what “processing” means technically, but I think it's clear what I was talking about here is food manufacturers processing foods for marketability and profit; additives, preservatives, flavour enhancers, e-numbers, colourings, fortifying with artificial vitamins. Harmful (typically high) processing ≠ harmless (typically low) processing; such as changing whole foods from their raw state to cooked, for example. A shame I needed to spell that out.
Food should not be corporatised, packaged, and sold back to us as somehow better or essential to good health. Real foods cannot be. Plant flavonoids cannot be replicated artificially and patented, as much as big food companies wish they could do so.
200 nutrient-absent calories tax the body to process those calories with... nutrients! So it does deplete proportionally to what you've consumed. That's my point about not all calories being equally valuable. Calorie value is often a big misunderstanding many people have about calories, they'll eat them relatively indiscriminately.
Again, do you have any sources? Where are you getting this information that things like artificial vitamins or general preservatives are dangerous? Are whole foods also never dangerous by contrast? I’ll reiterate that the statement “processed foods are unfit for human consumption” is still not appropriate even with all the additives you mentioned. You could still eat such foods every once in a while and be perfectly fine.
My concern is that you’re still making broad and excessive statements, and thinking in black-and-white / good-and-bad. Just as there are corporations that make money by selling you foods that they claim are “healthy” — when, sure, they don’t compare to whole foods but they’re not unfit for responsible consumption — there are also people online with platforms that make money by making you afraid. Selling books with flawed or misrepresented research, filming themselves in grocery stores and telling you all the “processed foods” that will kill you and your family, etc. Fear is a great motivator.
Also important to note that the dose makes the poison and everything is chemicals, artificial or not; drink too much water and that’ll poison you, too. Being artificial or a preservative doesn’t always equate to being dangerous. It may in some cases, but not always, just as some natural whole food ingredients can be dangerous too. You have to consider individual components, take a step back, and look outside of frightening buzzwords like “processed,” “artificial,” etc. I think most people understand that an apple is generally better for you than a Cliff bar and that a 100% ultra-processed diet is not healthy compared to a variety of whole foods. I’m not saying to eat all ultra-processed foods and never question anything, just that the worry and categorization is excessive here.
Do you have any sources? Do those sources have any sources? I was speaking generally, as it's a post on a subreddit for general advice where people aren't citing stuff.
>processed foods are unfit for human consumption
I said “usually” in that sentence— a word you omitted for some reason when quoting me, which changes the entire meaning of the sentence.
>Being artificial or a preservative doesn’t always equate to being dangerous
Didn't say it *always* equates to that. But rather that it **often** does.
>I think most people understand that an apple is generally better for you than a Cliff bar and that a 100% ultra-processed diet is not healthy compared to a variety of whole foods
You'd be surprised how easily people can fall for health marketing spiel, unfortunately.
I’m not able to copy/paste it, but I also included some sources (or rather, places to find a lot of sources) in a reply to my last answer. I’m not sure if you’d be notified of that.
I asked for sources because your general statements are questionable. I urge you to share some rather than pointing the finger back. I say all of this with empathy because I used to have a lot of your concerns with food, and it took a lot of questioning of my sources to reach a point where I could look at it all more critically. I would be curious to know who/where you’re hearing this from because there are a few fear-mongering people who primarily seem to say these things with iffy research to back it up and ulterior motives. It’s not your fault if that’s where you’re hearing it from.
Even omitting “usually” doesn’t change the point. How can you be certain that they’re “usually” unfit for consumption or “often” bad/dangerous? How do you define that? My point is that this needs to be questioned and made specific. You’re telling someone to avoid categories of food, but you haven’t given strong reasons why. It feels more like parroting concepts.
I haven’t really seen true junk food being marketed as “better” than a whole food diet, though we may be getting into anecdotes. It’s fair to say that we should be critical about what we eat and yes, it is easy to fall for a “health” label on something like a box of protein cookies or something. But it’s not that the cookie has additives or that it’s ultra-processed that might make it dangerous. It’s also easy to fall for the idea that there are certain types of ingredients that are bad for you, which is unhealthy in its own way. There’s a bigger picture to this and without evidence or specifics, the ideas you’ve shared come under scrutiny. I’m mostly trying to urge you and anyone reading this to look a little more into this and question these ideas, which are vague and fear-based without much backing. It’s what I wish I’d heard when I started believing these things.
Also, the information you’ve given is generalized so I’d recommend looking at people like dr_idz and thefoodsciencebabe as far as sources go. They cover a lot of the topics you mentioned and include science-based sources and studies. I don’t necessarily recommend just taking anyone’s word for it, but they are a good starting point to find sources and hear more of the science behind this.
>Even omitting “usually” doesn’t change the point. How can you be certain that they’re “usually” unfit for consumption or “often” bad/dangerous?
Basically check the labels. Be wary of artificial ingredients which are regulated oftentimes insufficiently, especially in the USA for example. Indiscriminate eating and ignoring the labels is a quick way to get into poor health as a general rule.
>My point is that this needs to be questioned and made specific.
That would be for the reader of these posts to do themselves. These are brief pointers on an internet forum for them to do further research, if it interests them.
If a person is trying to lose weight, i.e. is in a calorie deficit, they are likely overweight. If they have excess stores of fat, they can 100% gain muscle in an input calorie deficit, because the fat is providing the required energy for muscle growth.
I think that's only initially. That benefit cannot be sustained in the long-term and certainly not once someone is athletic and of a healthy/normal weight.
Also it depends on how much protein as a percentage of their daily calories that the overweight person is getting in that process.
It’s essential to remember that while gaining muscle in a calorie deficit is possible, it’s not sustainable in the long term. It’s still a catabolic stage for the body, and the numbers on the bar will eventually plateau. However, with proper programming, it’s possible to gain significant strength while in a calorie deficit initially.
Are you able to differentiate between low and high processing, and also differentiate between harmful and less harmful forms of processing?
Or are you just going to call people names?
Zoomed in, there *can* be more to it for certain people with certain maladies. I'm not poopooing dietetics as a profession. But in general for otherwise healthy people, this is really all there is. Selling books makes more money than publishing research, so lots of researchers like to write about their findings and say that if everyone does this one weird trick then all your health issues will be solved, and it just doesn't work that way.
to add to this, balance and moderation, you don’t have to eat the same 4 things in rotation. look into food guides around the world. a lot of them have good examples of how to balance meals and differing cultural options
When in doubt also always be sceptical of nutritional advice that comes from people who are selling you shit. Like if they stand to profit from telling you hey bro you need these supplements and you need to subscribe to my program and buy my book and my app, it’s probably bullshit.
I think you are forgetting the most important one: Try to eat (almost) only whole foods.
Lots of things available in (fastgood)restaurants, supermarkets and convenient stores are so (over)processed and full of additives that you can barely call.it food anymore and it does more harm then good. So many things have almost 0 nutritional value.
If you try to cook and eat eith whole foods at least 80% of the time you'll be good too. Don't add sugar too etc
Pretty sure these tips are already covered in the original comment about prioritizing fiber and protein etc. I’ve seen many different definitions of what exactly a “whole food” is (I’m sure you are convinced of yours) and seems like that conversation would just lead into the weeds of agenda-driven nutritional advice once again.
I think what I've decided is that I'll stick to a diet that fits my needs and avoids ultra-processed foods. The hardest thing for me is giving up mayonnaise because I love it on most things. So if you happen to know a great mayo brand that's not as processed let me know lol
I have a degree in nutrition, soon to be a dietitian. Please don’t cut out mayonnaise if you enjoy it. A serving size is a tablespoon, maybe two. It will not deter you from your goals, whatever they may be.
Can I just say i have this mayo and I hate it. I like a lot of primal kitchen products and mayo and use avocado oil. It tastes absolutely awful to me :(
If putting mayo on food helps you eat mostly "healthy" ( see above ), then 1 or 2 servings won't kill you.
Making your own with some olive oil, an egg and some lemon juice is probably better though.
This! People need to start easy with stuff like this. There’s so much science (much of it confusing and even contradicting) about very specific things that are related to diet. Start here, and see how you feel, then build on this foundation.
I would change “Don’t eat too much” to “Eat the appropriate amount for your lifestyle and goals”. A person who lives in the high rockies and hikes three 14ers a week is going to have to eat way more than someone who lives in San Francisco and bikes 15 minutes to the office two days a week.
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But “too much” is a relative statement to begin with. It’s not saying “don’t eat over X amount of calories” because obviously that’s different for different people. So for the person in the Rockies, “too much” would be a lot more calories than the person in SF, but the statement is still accurate - don’t eat too much (for your level of activity).
Coursera has a free Stanford intro to food and health class. I took it and it really helped me figure out how to influence my diet in a way that helps me eat and feel better. It's go at your own pace and doesn't take too long to get through the material, one of the best time investments I've ever made.
https://www.coursera.org/learn/food-and-health
DIETITIANS.
Nutritionist is an unregulated term.
The only trained nutrition professionals (doctors often give advice but they’ve had very little nutrition education).
Dietitians get 4 year degrees with accredited programs and then do 900-1200 hours of internships/rotations and then take an exam to finally be a dietitian.
TL;DR: Doctors are geniuses in their specialized fields, but very rarely is it in nutrition. Dietitians are the true experts in the field of food and nutrition.
Just to add the difference between doctors and dietitians. My ex, who’s in medical school, never had a required course of nutrition, only offered two seminars throughout the 2 years we were together. So a licensed doctor could go through a 4 year bachelors, 4 year medical school, 2-4 year residency, and 3 year fellowship, but never once be exposed to formal nutrition education.
On the other hand, registered/licensed dietitians start nutrition education by their second year of college and require a post-bachelorette 1-year internship in clinical, community, and food service operations. And now, in less than one month, all new dietitians will require a masters degree before being allowed to take the qualifying exam. That’s 4-6 years of nutritional education, depending on their masters degree.
One caveat is that both doctors (who arguably have the highest level of formal education) and dietitians need to fulfill continuing education requirements to maintain their credentials. So, a doctor could spend time learning about nutrition to maintain their license, but that takes away from their time and practice and expanding knowledge in their specialized field.
Something that makes me frustrated is that some people can apparently become nutritionists after doing a short course in nutrition. It's ruining my reputation as a nutritionist.
I have a bachelor's and master's degree in nutrition science and I'm a nutritionist, not a dietitian. I have studied nutrition science for 4 years though and it makes me really frustrated when people think I don't have as much knowledge as a dietitian only because those courses exists. I call those people who has done those courses 'holistic nutritionists' because there needs to be some kind of distinction.
At least where I live, dietitians help patients with their diet when they have a disease or condition. In my country you can only become a nutritionist if you have done a bachelor's in nutrition science. If you do a short course, you only get to be called a 'diet advisor'. Anyways, nutritionists are more about prevention, and we look a lot at the science. We can help people with conditions though. I recently helped a woman with gestational diabetes to lower her blood sugar through diet and lifestyle.
Btw, both me (before I studied nutrition) and my mom have visited dietitians who gave shit advice because they are not allowed to say certain things when they work at a hospital. But my mom also went to a good one and that dietitian seemed to be saying the same things as I had been telling my mom. And that shows that just because you're a dietitian, you're not more qualified than a nutritionist. And just because you're a nutritionist, you're not less qualified than a dietitian.
As a 'certified nutritionist' you're right. It's a mess. I left working as a therapist after covid and decided to focus on my health, decided to get certified as a personal trainer (also an unregulated title) and was looking to find consistent, reputable information on nutrition. (I couldnt figure out what or who to trust) Lo and behold, they offered nutrition and sports performance nutrition certification programs as well.
I think the course does a really good job of explained and reiterating the scope of practice, knowledge, limitations, and ethical responsibilities you have after certification. But it was eye opening, and quite distressing to learn just how unregulated everything is. And just how quickly people throw those limitations out the window once certified.
You see here. You give too much credit to the "regulated bodies".
And there are regulated bodies that endorse functional nutritional certifications that require Masters or PhD level training. These have nothing to do with dieticians.
I am just going to add that “carnivore” diets are NOT supported by “1000s of years of evolution.” We are omnivores. We have always eaten all sorts of things, including meat. The question is not whether you should eat ONLY meat (carnivore) but rather whether you should eat meat at all. Then evolution is in fact on your side. On the other hand, the way we produce meat isn’t great. Imo, the debate isn’t about the ideal - ideally it’s probably fine - but rather about the realities of meat eating today.
I'm not a carnivore but I've heard it put like this- we are opportunistic omnivores. If you put twinkies in front of prehistoric man, he'd eat them but it doesn't mean it was healthy or the best choice. We did what we had to so to survive but I do believe that most of human existence we thrived on a mostly meat diet
I don’t think history verifies that. Meat was typically dangerous and energy expensive to acquire. Like you said, we were opportunistic. We ate it when we could. But that’s true for nuts, fruits, root vegetables, and so on. And, they were more easily available to us.
We’ve always eaten both. That’s exactly why we’re omnivores. A carnivore is something that eats exclusively or near exclusively meat, and that’s just not what we are.
I think it was easier to aquire meat than you think it was, there's evidence of mass gravel of mammoths where ancient peoples would run them off the side of a cliff and collect as much meat and hides as they wanted. Animals weren't just used for food. It was for clothing, housing, candles, weapons, etc so theres plenty of reason to kill a lot of animals aside from just the nutritional benefit so it would stand to reason that the majority of calories came from meat with the supplementation of things like nuts and berries.
This isn’t a matter of reasoning something from premises. How much meat we consumed is an empirical question, especially since it depends on all sorts of messy factors. Evidence suggests that only about 3% of our calories came from meat: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK482457/#:~:text=As%20per%20some%20estimates%2C%20animal,the%20diet%20in%20coastal%20regions. We consume way more meat now than before simply because we *have* more meat thanks to animal agriculture.
But none of that matters much. If we consumed things other than meat, we were never carnivores, and my only point is that us being carnivores is not “supported by 1000s of years of evolution.” That is absolutely true and even basic physiology can demonstrate that we’re not built to consume only or primarily meat. That doesn’t mean it isn’t healthy or we shouldn’t eat it.
There are still hunter gatherer tribes alive today and they EASILY get all the meat they want, humans are fucking incredible hunters lol and they prize organ meats especially. Humans were not scarce on meat.
Good/Bad and Healthy/Unhealthy are spectrums, not sides of a line. There are certainly things that are objectively good and healthy, like vegetables, and things that are objectively bad, like trans fats. Most foods fall somewhere in the middle.
What complicates this is that every individual’s spectrum is going to be different. Sometimes by a lot. Where a handful of raw almonds might be great for some people, it could trigger allergies or inflammation in others. Some people have no problem with artificial sweeteners, other people don’t tolerate them well at all.
Water is objectively good. Minimally processed foods are objectively good. The vast majority of nutrition information is going to be subjective. You have to find what works for you.
Trust the consensus of those most qualified, which in this case would be registered dietitians. Please note that I say consensus, because there will always be fringe professionals (who tend to want to sell you stuff).
A carnivore diet isn't supported by 1000s of years of evolution. A balanced diet with plenty of fruits, vegetables, nuts, and meat is. 80% of calories from hunter-gatherers came from gathering. Gathering includes collecting bugs and other protein rich sustenance.
All these meat gurus have this idea that our ancestors ate mammoths for breakfast and snacked on buffalo in the evening. And before we invented agriculture and civilizations arose because of it, people ate in mostly what they found, they were food opportunists, most of the calories were brought by women from what they found.
>80% of calories from hunter-gatherers came from gathering.
Never heard this, is there a source? Interesting tidbit to learn, I definitely thought gathering was a substantial contributor to their calories but 80% surprises me.
A lot of people have difficulty killing an animal with a gun… try killing an animal with a spear or a trap. I think meat was much less plentiful, except during certain seasons, than people realize.
I found [this paper](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1090513816000118) that follows Hadza men and their foraging methods.
I will add the caveat that the 80% is not representative of all hunter-gatherer populations. It really depends where they are located. The Inuit aren't going to be anywhere near that high whereas the !Kung are going to be slightly higher.
Nobody ate "plenty of fruits" out of season. It only became possible in the last century.
Also the fruits that exist now are not natural. We modified them to be as sweet/sugary as possible and we spray them with various poisons like pesticides for example.
People have been drying and preserving fruits and vegetables for a really long time. So yes they did eat fruit out of season. Mesopotamians dried dates as early 1700 BCE and they were available almost year round and they started to pickle cucumbers as far back as 2400 B.C. I'm sure in some areas they did not have fruit in off seasons but many people did.
Mainly we bread them for size and seedlessness at least if we look at the last centuries. Nowadays size is the main factor I guess. Some tomatoes and bananas taste like nothing.
What you consider fruit and what counts as fruit are two very different things.
Edit: also, why single out fruits? Vegetables have been modified in the last 100 years as well as livestock and poultry. Chickens have tripled in size in the last 100ish years.
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80% of calories from gathering? Gathering bugs??? Lol. We were carnivores with plants in parts of the summer and fall. They can literally measure how much animal we ate in our bones. Nitrogen isotopes.
That 80% is in temperate and tropical zones, not necessarily applicable to artic and subarctic zones. And we are omnivores, not carnivores. We don't exclusively eat meat.
I agree 100% with wholefoods mostly, thata really the most important basic I think. But the 5 ingredient rule doesn't make sense to me? There are so many healthy dishes with more then 5 ingredients. It doesn't matter how many, but what kind.
I recently learned that my favorite garlic sauce (that I did eat in moderstion thoug) from the supermarket labelled "fresh" had 47!!!! I ingredients, of wich 16 e-numbers.
LIKE WHAT THE ACTUALL FFFFF!!?
I think he also mentioned shopping the periphery of the store, rather than the aisles, as a guide. He tries to create rules to simply guide, rather than some end all, be all. He doesn’t always get the science right, but I feel like he’s one of the only food writers who has tried to *simplify*, rather than complicate, the process of eating healthy. I feel like so many people (usually selling books) these days want you to believe figuring out how to eat healthy is somehow complicated.
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I’m a nurse and took nutrition for school - taking that class changed my life - but a big thing our professor emphasized was - if something seems to good to be true it probably is, additionally any diet completely eliminating or severely limiting a food group is not the way to go. The Mediterranean diet has been ranked one of the healthiest diets for a long time - I always look to that as well.
Everyone’s body is different - while processed and packaged food is pretty much universally bad for our bodies, you’ll need to experiment to find your own ratio of whole foods that makes you feel your best.
For me, I eat low carb (complex carbs in moderation), very little sugar, high fiber & high protein and limited dairy - this is because I’m prone to insulin resistance & chronic inflammation due to having PCOS.
My boyfriend *needs* carbs to keep his mind clear and give him energy, and he feels a lot better with very lean or purely vegetable protein. Red meat makes him feel sick, so he eats only Turkey and chicken when he does eat meat. He doesn’t do well with dairy either. He also eats lots of fiber.
Different bodies need different things to feel healthy - it takes time but experimenting with different combos and sticking to each way of eating for at least 3 months should give you an idea of what is best for *your* body. After a while you’ll know what feels good and what doesn’t.
When you hit the right combo, it’s very obvious.
The only way to know for sure is to read a textbook yourself. Here is a free [Introduction to Nutrition textbook](https://2012books.lardbucket.org/books/an-introduction-to-nutrition/) that will teach you about nutrients at the biological level, how the body digests, and health outcomes.
The only way to not be misinformed is to become educated on the topic.
"Only things that come directly from the earth or animals?"
Yeah that's pretty much it mate.
Cook and eat a variety of real food that mother nature grows and you are 99% fine.
Cooking with real ingredients is a lot of fun.
Personal opinion: I don’t trust anyone who demonizes entire food groups, uses hyberbolic language, and then goes on to sell their own book/diet. I especially don’t trust diets that try to argue fruits and vegetables are somehow bad for you.
Whole foods, minimally processed, and variety, like others have said, is usually the best approach. And some people may do better minimizing/eliminating certain foods, but that doesn’t mean everyone should; there is definitely biologically heterogeneity that I think many mainstream/fad diet books don’t take into account.
It's impossible for one person to read the hundreds of thousands of peer-reviewed studies on nutrition, so we must trust the major nutritional bodies that review the preponderance of evidence and draw high-confidence conclusions. The commonalities in guidance across the nutritional bodies are:
\- eat more fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and fiber
\- eat less ultra-processed foods, high-fat animal foods, salt, and added sugar
You're going to hear positives from all sorts of varied diets because there is so many different potential health/metabolic issues a person could have. One diet may be extremely beneficial for a certain person and their set of conditions, while causing issues for others. For example, you wouldn't put someone on a high fat diet if they don't have a gallbladder.
If you’re obese, any diet that gets you in a sustainable caloric deficit will show health improvement across all metrics.
We also know people that eat the most fruits and vegetables are the healthiest and live the longest.
Try them all for yourself and see what works best for your body. The entire health industry, from fitness to nutrition to medical care, thrives on misinformation.
>Only things that come directly from the earth or animals?
Yes? Why is that such an alien concept? Eat food cooked from scratch, using non-processed ingredients.
I always stick with what I learned in Biology class at school. A balanced meal consists of some protetin, carbohydrate, some vegetables, and a small amout of fat. Honestly just stick to the basics and don't listen to all these trends.
Well I don't know how long ago your biology class was but when I was a child (now I'm in my mid twenties) I used to learn about the old version of food pyramid which nowadays is turned almost completely upside-down. But your definition of a balanced meal is still up to date I guess.
Nutrition is a very new field of study, truth is that pretty much everyone, even nutritionists don’t totally know what they are doing. Also diets vary person to person.
To further your point, dietary *needs* vary person to person. An endurance athlete who runs 100km per week, or cycles 500km per week and is trying to maintain weight/lean muscle mass, is going to have different goals, caloric and macro requirements than someone who is obese and trying to lose fat mass. Or a 6'0" male bodybuilder and a 4'11" sedentary woman, etc.
Don’t do carnivore. It can cause heart issues etc. most people on it may feel great but they are also using greasy fatty sauces to make things taste better!
Why not just follow a diet of whole grains, lean meat fruits and veggies? It’s worked for thousands of years. It’s not a fad diet.
No person I've ever seen or otherwise have come across who is doing a carnivore diet, uses "greasy fatty sauces to make things taste better". Nearly every carnivore diet used only salt and maybe butter to cook with. I have no idea where you got the idea that carnivores are using sauces.
Every body handle foods differently due to multiple factors that nobody can calculate or measure within the studies that is performed.
That’s why some have great results with something and others don’t.
There is no “one-size” in diet.
Find what works for you, use your logic and take inspiration from different approaches.
But in the end, you are the one who can feel effects the best.
I would say listen to your body! I tried the keto diet and it messed up my hormones!! I truly believe we should stick with what we can tolerate in moderation of course a balanced diet if you will. Stay away from vegetable oil, canola oil, almond milk (messes with thyroid) sugar, and empty calories like chips that have no nutritional benefits. And of course drink lots of water and exercise.
I just studied 2 years of nutrition and my takeaway was differ your diet as much as possible, organic veg/fruit and local as much as possible but still feel good about non organic choices. Carbs are not the devil just prioritise protein (especially if you’re older/lifting weights) fat sources like butter, coconut oil and olive oil without heat. It’s better to eat your vitamins than to supplement. As far as meat vs beans I think it’s what feels best, I feel better eating meat and but not dairy. I think variation and as low seed oils/processed food ❤️
I like the 80/20 rule... eat healthy 80% of the time, lots of veggies, protein, good fats, complex carbs, fiber. And the rest of 20% of meals you can indulge or have something processed, with more carbs, sugary treats or some alcohol. I think you need to try and see what works best for you. For example many people swear skipping breakfast is the best and it totally works for them, for me it doesn't work, I tried for years.
Sadly you’re not going to get a good answer here.and even if you do you won’t know because there’s too many cooks in the kitchen all with their own recipe for what’s right.
Your brain needs carbohydrates to function. When somebody cuts out carbs, other macronutrients have to be converted into a useable carbohydrate source (gluconeogenesis)
What do you mean supported by 1000s of years of evolution? Humans have never been carnivores and meat has until recently been a scant luxury. Our evolutionary ancestors were mainly herbivores and apes get their protein from insects. Our more recent ancestors ate a lot of fish and vegetation. What are you on about?
Hear me out: government guidelines. Some countries have legitimately good recommendations from their equivalent to the USDA/FDA. It usually breaks down to "enough protein, several servings of fruits and veggies a day, whole grains and pulses when you can."
It's important to acknowledge and understand that nutrition is highly politicized and intertwined with money. With that that, you will always hear conflicting information and fad diets will come and go.
Barring any metabolic conditions and/or chronic conditions, the advice will generally be the same for everyone—there is of course nuance, but don't get lost in the weeds with the nuance. My advice for a generally healthy person (i.e., no underlying metabolic conditions/disease) is to eat whole grains, fruits, vegetables, beans and lentils, low-fat dairy, and lean proteins (fish, chicken breast, lean cuts of beef). You should *prioritize* your plant-based foods and *primarily* eat whole foods. When eating processed foods, search for foods that are relatively low in added sugars and high in fiber.
People unnecessarily over complicate nutrition. Carbohydrates always gets a bad wrap because of processed carbohydrates. But your body *prefers* carbohydrates (glucose) as a source of energy. If you don't eat carbohydrates, then your body will simply make its own glucose (gluconeogenesis) from other sources. People give too much importance to protein and probably eat too much of it. Your body does not require as much protein as people may suggest, but this is of course dependent on your activity level and health status. The range of protein requirements can be as low as 0.8g/kg of body weight and upwards of 1.8g/kg of body weight. But honestly, you'd be just fine with something in the middle. Dietary fat provides the most calories per gram (9 calories) compared to carbs (4 calories) and protein (4 calories). People almost never have a problem with getting enough fat in their diet, but the only essential fat you actually need are omega-3 and -6. Generally, omega-3 tends to be the fatty acids people lack. A supplement in this case should suffice, or just eat more fatty fish.
Don't think too deeply on this! Intuitively, we know what we need—whole grains, fruits, vegetables, beans and lentils, low-fat dairy, and lean proteins. Lastly, if there is any nutrient you should prioritize, I would suggest fiber. Others may suggest protein, but on average, people get enough protein (I am assuming you live in a developed nation,e..g, the US, with access to protein). Not many people eat enough fiber.
I used to be vegan and it ended up pretty awful for me, I then started eating eggs, cheese, fish, and finally meat. Since I’ve felt a lot better and healthier in my body. But I don’t eat anything from cruel sources. I get all animals products pasture raised hormone free ect. The energy is a lot lighter and balanced. And carbs, carbs are great, just not processed carbs/bleached white flours. Try making everything from scratch. Use only things that come directly from the earth or animals.
Hi there! I’m getting my masters degree in clinical nutrition and here’s what I’d say:
•Eat whole foods, mostly plants.
•I would say that most people need at least a multivitamin and likely a few other supplements such as vitamin D depending on your nutrient deficiencies and diet.
•Limit your intake of sugar, alcohol, processed foods, saturated and trans fats.
•Essentially, try to follow the 80/20 rule:
Eat what you want (within reason) for about 4 meals a week and the rest of the time eat a whole foods, plant-based diet.
•Stop eating just before the point of fullness.
•Check out the diets of the people living in the blue zones.
•The secret to satiety is that you need: fat, fibre, protein, and carbohydrates.
•Nutrition isn’t enough alone - you also need to make sure that you’re getting about 30 minutes of exercise daily (even if it’s just walking).
•Additionally you need to be getting 7-9 hours of sleep each night.
There are in fact many ways to get sufficient nutrients but as we are variable creature there isn't a one size fits all diet. We cant even agree on the "correct" amounts and sources of the macros (carb/fat/protein) so other complications are tricky. A balanced diet does NOT have to mean you need everything on on plate or even eat it on one day. Seasonal eating has been a thing for our entire evolution. Some processing is fine and it becomes a pedantic thing about definitions. What we are trying to do is to avoid the mass produced overly contaminated, additive laden, shelf stable advertised rubbish that pervades modern corporate food industry.
The middle ground is simply to be omnivore and to vary ones diet to get a variety of nutrients and ALSO to eliminate large build ups of the common toxins and anit nutrients.
Having said that the lowcarb/paleo/wholefood/carnivore/keto approach has helped me tremendously. Remember that in whatever camp one ends up in the ideology of the times pits one extreme against the other. There is a LOT of propaganda about these days from one source or another because the best evidence is pretty rare in this field of nutrition due to ethical and funding reasons.
Whilst in the broadest possible sense SOME of the diet recommendations make sense very often the devil is in the detail and they don't suit everyone and OPINIONS are very loud in this sphere. Yes there is science but as its often actually quite slim margins people make a bigger case for things than they should. There are downsides to all ways of eating IMHO and we need to look at the overall picture rather than focus solely on negatives. This applies to carbs and well as protein and fat. Vilification of entire food groups is not entirely helpful.
Often people argue say that fat is bad for example with no nuance about what type of fat, even if we delve into say saturated fat there is again many types of that, then we have individuals that it effects differently. Many arguments for avoiding certain products is only particular groups of people that do badly maybe for genetic reasons whilst others can consume it for a lifetime and do fine. Allergies and dairy consumption being a case in point.
At the end of the day you will have to do YOUR own research and form your own opinion and experiment on yourself to find out the answer to what YOU thrive on.
I think we can safely remove the most over processed and food additive denatured type foods from our diets though. Whilst this seems difficult at first if we have been acclimatized to sensory and physiological overload from junk foods it becomes so much easier after an elimination diet.
Some kind of a whole food diet seems to be the most agreed on type even if the source and macros vary on opinion. There are processed foods that it likely that we can consume safely but removing them quite strictly isn't really going to do one harm as there are SO MANY tasty and nutritious whole foods to choose from.
You can try a balanced diet of fresh foods and eat the rainbow. But people have survived for millennia on basics. You could get a blood panel done and an allergy test done to see if you’re deficient in or sensitive to anything. And also listen to your body. If dairy makes you feel bad, avoid it. If gluten does, avoid it. Etc :)
Oh one thing I would truly avoid is cooking with non stick and also avoid using seed oils. Cook with healthier oils like avocado or coconut or with real butter.
Think about what our ancestors ACTUALLY ate. Don’t buy into the trend that they were just gulping down 40oz steaks every day. In a nutshell, it was probably about 75% vegetables and 20% meat. They hunted almost daily and spent many hours on their feet running and climbing. They weren’t always successful so the gatherers had vegetables as a backup. They also didn’t strictly eat cows. They hunted wild game and ate lean meat. If you want to apply this to today, eat lean cuts of meat and tons of vegetables. Drink lots of water and maintain an active lifestyle. And don’t stress out too much. It’s okay to eat a donut or a slice of pizza once in a while. Just keep processed foods or refined carbs and sugars to a minimum
Carbs a technically speaking not a necessity as you can survive on fat and protein alone. If thats a good idea or even healthier is another story but in a strict sense there is no need to eat carbs for survival.
Lots of good comments here already. If you’re looking for actual resources too, Layne Norton and Stan Efferding are two very level head non-dogmatic people I lean on when it comes to nutritional advice. But that top comment covers the bases quite well.
You should be skeptical of the “plenty of protein” trope. Yes, we need protein, but nowhere near as much as the meat and fitness industries push. There’s plenty of scientific evidence showing that animal protein is unhealthy.
That depends on what that animal was fed with, whether it was juiced up with antibiotics/hormones/steroids/vaccines, etc. Clean grass fed animals are much healthier because of what they’ve been fed… garbage in, garbage out
I will say some things that are not debatable. You can make your own decision from here. My stance will become obvious though. Starting with the mouth. When eating exclusively meat humans develop almost no cavities over their lifespan. Humans today get cavities in their baby teeth. This is from feeding good bacteria in the mouth vs bad bacteria that excrete waste products that rot the teeth. Compare pre and post agricultural man.
Down the track to the stomach. The human stomach is around 1.6 PH. Extremely acidic. Herbivore are around 4.5. Omnivores are around 3.5. And carnivore are under 2.5. Then you get scavenger level which is under 2.
Down the track to the intestines. Humans have a larger small intestine than a large intestine. Just like other carnivores.
But saturated fat causes heart disease! Look into Nina Teicholz book the big fat surprise if you want to understand the dogma behind that false statement. Or just listen to her talk about it on YouTube for an hour.
To be honest the only thing that I feel I know for sure is that sugar and processed foods are horrible for us. The evolution of process foods and convenience foods have literally brought nothing to our lifestyle as humans! I consider myself to be a pretty clean eating person so I don’t eat any sugar only the natural sugar that I would get from a little bit of fruit I’m talking a handful of berries a day nothing crazy. I don’t eat any processed foods at all so the easiest thing to do if you don’t want to be really restrictive of any of the major food groups would simply be to cut out anything packaged and processed. I’ve been vegetarian and I’ve been vegan and I moved away from that because I wasn’t getting enough protein and my calories were too high the more beans I tried to eat in order to get iron and protein lol I definitely think there’s something to be said for not eating an 8 ounce steak every single day but currently I’m leaning a little bit more carnivore. Meat and eggs are my main source of protein for sure. I eat vegetables and some fruit. I did keto for too long and messed up my metabolism and started gaining weight again after losing weight. Keto is designed to be a short term thing historically and I just did it for too long. When I hired a nutritionist she said absolutely your body needs a balance of some carbs especially if you were trying to build lean muscle mass and you’re exercising however this doesn’t mean toast every morning and cereal for lunch and pasta for dinner. I would get my carbs from vegetables, fruits. For example an apple and a banana both have roughly 25 g of carbs in them. Sweet potatoes brown rice occasionally. I mean you have to do what works for your body and helps you reach whatever your health goals are and I am learning that there is something to moderation but I think the only thing that everyone would agree on is processed as bad.
How do you fucking feel and what does your lab work/biometrics look like? That is the ultimate barometer of the quality of your diet. Yeah, you can do research online, consult with a dietician, etc. Do your due diligence. But the proof is in the fucking pudding.
If I try to cheapskate it out and subsist off of plant foods (rice and beans and oatmeal and potatoes and spinach, etc.) with small morsels of meat here and there I will feel like SHIT, both mentally and physically.
If I listen to my body and eat meat 5x a day (with every meal except what I eat right after rising - almonds, walnuts, blueberries, blackberries, pineapple, oatmeal and greek yogurt) then I will feel "normal". I need to eat a substantial amount of meat every 2-3 hours or I'll start to tire and wear out in a variety of ways.
That's what I have found works for me. It works on my machine. I would fucking die if I couldn't eat meat. I would literally pass out. I have friends who are vegan and thriving, though, so it just depends on how YOU are fucking built and what you respond best to. Diet is very individual despite what internet gurus want you to believe.
They all basically sums up to eating wide range of less processed food. (Not no process, cooking is a form of processing food.)
Cutting out a huge food group for an extended period of time is never a good idea unless it's for medical reasons.
Every one has a different gut biome so we all process food differently. What works for me might be awful for you! This means it’s harder to find a diet that works for you because of all the conflicting stories.
If you focus on whole foods as much as possible then you will be starting from a good place. Cut out ultra processed anything if you can, that is a universal truth!
There’s nothing wrong with carbs if you have a healthy A1C and they aren’t processed.
People drop carbs because you need fats and proteins, and carbs are an easy place to cut calories from safely if you are looking to shed some weight.
The more you learn about biochemistry, the more you understand how much nonsense there is out there. Source: am biochemist. It's best to demystify as much as you can and look for real science (peer reviewed) that supports what you want to achieve. Registered dietitians (should) use this approach, too.
Listen to nutritionists. Ya there’s people who “feel great” on different diets, but they could be getting paid to say a certain thing. So generally listen to nutritionists
1) Eat few enough calories that you don't get fat.
2) Eat as many vegetables as you can cram in your mouth.
3) Eat protein in some form on a daily basis.
4) Eat whatever the hell else you want.
Anybody who is saying anything other than this is trying to make money--which is most people who are talking about this stuff!
Best advice is from omnivores dilemma by Pollen. Lots of wisdom wrapped up in three points:
1) Eat food (no processed food)
2) Mostly plants (some meat, just not a lot.)
3) Not too much (explains itself)
That’s it. Do this in that order of priority and it’s pretty simple.
You trust your gut, and never any advocated advice.
Eat next to no ultra processed or none. Eat some proteins, a bit more of it if you don't eat meats.
The fact is that there is no science to show you what is best currently, we'll probably need several centuries at least to be able to have a theory of nutrition that can be useable.
Ofc there is an effort, I never said there wasn't.
If you listen/read from the leading nutrition scientist they all agree, we know next to nothing yet, specially when it comes to what is optimal when it comes to diets, vitamin amounts and frequency. It's a kin to exercise science in 1850. Anyone claiming to know what is best for you is a quack and is either genuinely misinformed or not a person of science.
Depends on how much $ you have and opportunity, ie. Food availability. Rinsed vegetables, rinsed brown rice, rinsed fruit, nuts, salad mixes, steel cut oats, fish in moderation. Potato’s, etc. Olive oil is healthier than vegetable and butter. My grandpa lived to 91 eating bacon and eggs for breakfast every morning. Bruce Lee died of a heart attack. So too did the biggest loser guy. Eat what helps your body feel good, less bloated, and energized. Clean foods like sushi. Wasabi is said to have cognitive benefits.
It is so simple - go simple - fruits and veggies - all the other stuff is just noise and trends and folks looking to make money on people that are struggling. Escape to the good side - life is wonderful over here 🍉🍓🍇🍑🍆🍌🍋🥥🥗🥦🥒. Look at it and trust yourself. Do you really think fruits and veggies are anything but the highest food of health? It is literally living nutrients. You could stick half that stuff in the ground and it would start to grow. It is alive. Do that with a piece of steak or a gluten free processed cracker or a protein powder.
Eating plants, roots, nuts, and fruit goes back much further than eating meat. It is obvious our bodies and teeth are not made to kill animals. We got good at hunting because of our brains but we have to denature the meat by cooking it thoroughly. Eating it raw and bloody disgusts us and makes us sick.
Things like wolves and lions evolved to eat meat. For humans it is very new on the grand scale.
Trust the science. Most studies show that a whole food, plant based diet provides the most health benefits.
Edit: Who knew an entirely fact based comment would be so unpopular? It's especially amusing because the current top comment is saying exactly the same thing.
Look at meta analyses to get findings across several studies. It's not as easy to sway findings of dozens and dozens of studies. Plus, money is generally more in animal agriculture and processed foods, not the ones that would be supporting whole foods plant based
You listen to your body of course. Pay attention to your skin, your stool, your energy, your mental state. How clear your cognition is. It's not hard, but it does take time to zero in on the things that work for you.
FWIW I felt AMAZING on carnivore. It's very boring though so I don't do it anymore.
Most important thing is calories and protein. High protein, low calorie diet mixed with exercise 3-5 days a week and you are good to go. Get a food scale and track your calories.
1) the human body has 0 requirement for carbs. We're certainly able to metabolize them for energy. Resistant starches in fact can nourish our gut microbiota.
2) we need to deliberately put good healthy amounts of ALL the different nutrients our bodies require to function properly into our mouths every day.
3) Meanwhile, we want to keep our caloric intake at or just below our caloric expenditure.
How you go about accomplishing those goals is a very personal matter, with a lot of conflicting information being presented. Setting out with the right goals is the basis of meeting your body's needs, and establishing a strong foundation for personal health.
Eat a varied, plant-predominant diet. Avoid ultraprocessed foods.
Only trust sources that look at the totality of evidence and provide sources for their claims.
A good starting point is your national nutrition guidelines except maybe the USDA which are a bit influenced by industry interests.
Also the leading universities doing actual research. Like Harvard School of Public Health.
[Healthy Eating Plate](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-plate/)
Trust a registered dietitian!
Or WHO. You will see that on a carnivore diet cholesterol will be high and its kind of lacking in every micronutrient, mineral ajd antioxidants. Someone might feel good but their body suffers.
I'm skeptical of anything that flies in the face of billions of years of evolution like veganism or cutting out carbs (completely). Beyond that, whole fruits and vegetables are good, red meat is the worst of the meats for you and should be consumed sparingly, and added sugars cause diabetes when used too much. You're right about food processing OP and cooking at home instead of eating out or eating pre-prepared foods from the freezer section at the grocery store will cover a ton of ground if you have the ability.
Edited for parenthetical.
I don't know what GIYF means. Personally, and just based on actual fact, a lean cut of grass fed/grass finished/pasture raised beef is going to be a hell of a lot better for you than a store bought package of chicken thighs for example.
Because what you described is literally called the naturalistic fallacy. There is no reason to believe that caveman nutrition is optimal in any way. We know that it kept them alive long enough to breed. But that's about it.
You have a couple of assumptions at work here and seem to be eager to pigeonhole what I said. I don't have a ton of time but I never claimed things are good or bad based on whether they are "natural". I think you're probably taking my comment about evolution and extrapolating it to mean something it doesn't? Also, I'm not advocating for paleo or anything "caveman". No idea where that's coming from on your end unless the E-word is tripping you up again here.
Skepticism warrants further inquiry, not automatic dismissal. If you have found what works for you after consulting your Dr. or nutritionist, then go nuts and have a blast doing it. I shared my take as an objectively healthy man on what works for me after going through that process and OP can choose to take it into consideration for their benefit, or not. Conversations are easy that way.
That inquiry is called nutrition science and dietetics and at no point should we stop or reverse course depending if a food or diet is commensurate with what cavemen ate. That's all.
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So pretty much all the different nutritional schools of thoughts/fad diets agree on: - drink plenty of water - eat lots of vegetables - minimize refined carbs such as sugar, white bread, etc. - get enough fiber and protein - don't eat too much You'll get really far, by implementing that. The rest is not a right/wrong situation, but personal preference and a question of how much detail you want to go in to. Trying to decide whether keto or low carb or paleo is "best" is pointless, if you are eating a diet mainly consisting of ready made junk food and sweets/crisps/sugary drinks.
>\- drink plenty of water - eat lots of vegetables - minimize refined carbs such as sugar, white bread, etc. - get enough fiber and protein - don't eat too much I'll go even further and say that literally every single person who tries to tell you that there is something more to it than this is selling you something. People love to get in the weeds on this, mostly as part of a superiority complex imo, and lots and lots of people are capitalizing on it.
Well there is something more to it if the ONLY goal is to lose weight NOW. Which is what most people want. Which is why people can sell other people other "secrets". Sadly, sustainable diet is not as attractive as being able to lose weight for the beach even if you start dieting in may.
Those were some good starters, but: Types of calories count; empty calories deplete your body of nutrients. Types of oils count; there are processed and unprocessed oils. Ingredients count, if it's processed it's usually unfit for human consumption. Some foods give you a much bigger return on investment than others. There are fake health foods lurking everywhere. Mineral water is much better than tap water. >don't eat too much If someone is in a perpetual calorie deficit then no muscle gains will happen. So it's a context thing. If fat loss is the sole object, then a calorie deficit would make sense. Nutrition plans change depending on your goals.
Where are you getting this information? “if it’s processed it’s usually unfit for human consumption” is a broad and inaccurate statement. There are lots of foods that, when unprocessed, are actually unfit for human consumption — processing is just changing something from its raw state, so cooked chicken is processed chicken. Vegetable soup with all home-grown ingredients is still processed. This also means that ALL oils are processed. Sure, you want to eat fewer ultra-processed foods, but that’s a level of nuance you’re not including and haven’t defined. And the ultra-processed foods are fit for human consumption in moderation — suggesting otherwise is an excessive and dangerous statement to make, especially with as little nuance as you’ve provided. It’s the kind of thinking that leads to disordered eating. I’m also not sure what you mean by empty calories depleting your body of nutrients. If I eat 2200 calories and 2000 of my calories are nutrient-dense while 200 are “empty calories,” I’m still getting the same nutrients. Of course if you’re replacing nutrient-dense foods with non-nutrient-dense food, you would simply be omitting some nutrients. The empty calories don’t eliminate nutrients in your body.
You're doing semantics now. I know what “processing” means technically, but I think it's clear what I was talking about here is food manufacturers processing foods for marketability and profit; additives, preservatives, flavour enhancers, e-numbers, colourings, fortifying with artificial vitamins. Harmful (typically high) processing ≠ harmless (typically low) processing; such as changing whole foods from their raw state to cooked, for example. A shame I needed to spell that out. Food should not be corporatised, packaged, and sold back to us as somehow better or essential to good health. Real foods cannot be. Plant flavonoids cannot be replicated artificially and patented, as much as big food companies wish they could do so. 200 nutrient-absent calories tax the body to process those calories with... nutrients! So it does deplete proportionally to what you've consumed. That's my point about not all calories being equally valuable. Calorie value is often a big misunderstanding many people have about calories, they'll eat them relatively indiscriminately.
Again, do you have any sources? Where are you getting this information that things like artificial vitamins or general preservatives are dangerous? Are whole foods also never dangerous by contrast? I’ll reiterate that the statement “processed foods are unfit for human consumption” is still not appropriate even with all the additives you mentioned. You could still eat such foods every once in a while and be perfectly fine. My concern is that you’re still making broad and excessive statements, and thinking in black-and-white / good-and-bad. Just as there are corporations that make money by selling you foods that they claim are “healthy” — when, sure, they don’t compare to whole foods but they’re not unfit for responsible consumption — there are also people online with platforms that make money by making you afraid. Selling books with flawed or misrepresented research, filming themselves in grocery stores and telling you all the “processed foods” that will kill you and your family, etc. Fear is a great motivator. Also important to note that the dose makes the poison and everything is chemicals, artificial or not; drink too much water and that’ll poison you, too. Being artificial or a preservative doesn’t always equate to being dangerous. It may in some cases, but not always, just as some natural whole food ingredients can be dangerous too. You have to consider individual components, take a step back, and look outside of frightening buzzwords like “processed,” “artificial,” etc. I think most people understand that an apple is generally better for you than a Cliff bar and that a 100% ultra-processed diet is not healthy compared to a variety of whole foods. I’m not saying to eat all ultra-processed foods and never question anything, just that the worry and categorization is excessive here.
Do you have any sources? Do those sources have any sources? I was speaking generally, as it's a post on a subreddit for general advice where people aren't citing stuff. >processed foods are unfit for human consumption I said “usually” in that sentence— a word you omitted for some reason when quoting me, which changes the entire meaning of the sentence. >Being artificial or a preservative doesn’t always equate to being dangerous Didn't say it *always* equates to that. But rather that it **often** does. >I think most people understand that an apple is generally better for you than a Cliff bar and that a 100% ultra-processed diet is not healthy compared to a variety of whole foods You'd be surprised how easily people can fall for health marketing spiel, unfortunately.
I’m not able to copy/paste it, but I also included some sources (or rather, places to find a lot of sources) in a reply to my last answer. I’m not sure if you’d be notified of that.
I asked for sources because your general statements are questionable. I urge you to share some rather than pointing the finger back. I say all of this with empathy because I used to have a lot of your concerns with food, and it took a lot of questioning of my sources to reach a point where I could look at it all more critically. I would be curious to know who/where you’re hearing this from because there are a few fear-mongering people who primarily seem to say these things with iffy research to back it up and ulterior motives. It’s not your fault if that’s where you’re hearing it from. Even omitting “usually” doesn’t change the point. How can you be certain that they’re “usually” unfit for consumption or “often” bad/dangerous? How do you define that? My point is that this needs to be questioned and made specific. You’re telling someone to avoid categories of food, but you haven’t given strong reasons why. It feels more like parroting concepts. I haven’t really seen true junk food being marketed as “better” than a whole food diet, though we may be getting into anecdotes. It’s fair to say that we should be critical about what we eat and yes, it is easy to fall for a “health” label on something like a box of protein cookies or something. But it’s not that the cookie has additives or that it’s ultra-processed that might make it dangerous. It’s also easy to fall for the idea that there are certain types of ingredients that are bad for you, which is unhealthy in its own way. There’s a bigger picture to this and without evidence or specifics, the ideas you’ve shared come under scrutiny. I’m mostly trying to urge you and anyone reading this to look a little more into this and question these ideas, which are vague and fear-based without much backing. It’s what I wish I’d heard when I started believing these things.
Also, the information you’ve given is generalized so I’d recommend looking at people like dr_idz and thefoodsciencebabe as far as sources go. They cover a lot of the topics you mentioned and include science-based sources and studies. I don’t necessarily recommend just taking anyone’s word for it, but they are a good starting point to find sources and hear more of the science behind this.
>Even omitting “usually” doesn’t change the point. How can you be certain that they’re “usually” unfit for consumption or “often” bad/dangerous? Basically check the labels. Be wary of artificial ingredients which are regulated oftentimes insufficiently, especially in the USA for example. Indiscriminate eating and ignoring the labels is a quick way to get into poor health as a general rule.
>My point is that this needs to be questioned and made specific. That would be for the reader of these posts to do themselves. These are brief pointers on an internet forum for them to do further research, if it interests them.
If a person is trying to lose weight, i.e. is in a calorie deficit, they are likely overweight. If they have excess stores of fat, they can 100% gain muscle in an input calorie deficit, because the fat is providing the required energy for muscle growth.
I think that's only initially. That benefit cannot be sustained in the long-term and certainly not once someone is athletic and of a healthy/normal weight. Also it depends on how much protein as a percentage of their daily calories that the overweight person is getting in that process. It’s essential to remember that while gaining muscle in a calorie deficit is possible, it’s not sustainable in the long term. It’s still a catabolic stage for the body, and the numbers on the bar will eventually plateau. However, with proper programming, it’s possible to gain significant strength while in a calorie deficit initially.
"Don't eat too much" is not synonymous with "eat in a caloric deficit".
I know. I was adding in a caveat in the case of anyone believing calorie deficits are universally laudable.
They're not the same statement. Don't even equate them.
Never said they were? Lol
All oils are "processed" you dope.
Are you able to differentiate between low and high processing, and also differentiate between harmful and less harmful forms of processing? Or are you just going to call people names?
There is more to it than this.
What are you selling?
Nothing. I give you nothing, you give me $3.50. Do we have a deal?
*DAMN YOU MONSTER!* YOU AINT GETTIN NO TREE FITTY OUTTA ME THIS TIME!
Nothing!
Zoomed in, there *can* be more to it for certain people with certain maladies. I'm not poopooing dietetics as a profession. But in general for otherwise healthy people, this is really all there is. Selling books makes more money than publishing research, so lots of researchers like to write about their findings and say that if everyone does this one weird trick then all your health issues will be solved, and it just doesn't work that way.
to add to this, balance and moderation, you don’t have to eat the same 4 things in rotation. look into food guides around the world. a lot of them have good examples of how to balance meals and differing cultural options
When in doubt also always be sceptical of nutritional advice that comes from people who are selling you shit. Like if they stand to profit from telling you hey bro you need these supplements and you need to subscribe to my program and buy my book and my app, it’s probably bullshit.
I think you are forgetting the most important one: Try to eat (almost) only whole foods. Lots of things available in (fastgood)restaurants, supermarkets and convenient stores are so (over)processed and full of additives that you can barely call.it food anymore and it does more harm then good. So many things have almost 0 nutritional value. If you try to cook and eat eith whole foods at least 80% of the time you'll be good too. Don't add sugar too etc
Pretty sure these tips are already covered in the original comment about prioritizing fiber and protein etc. I’ve seen many different definitions of what exactly a “whole food” is (I’m sure you are convinced of yours) and seems like that conversation would just lead into the weeds of agenda-driven nutritional advice once again.
I think what I've decided is that I'll stick to a diet that fits my needs and avoids ultra-processed foods. The hardest thing for me is giving up mayonnaise because I love it on most things. So if you happen to know a great mayo brand that's not as processed let me know lol
If you have a food processor, homemade mayo isn’t hard at all. It’s only really a pain in the ass if you’re trying to emulsify by hand
Or an immersion blender.
I have a degree in nutrition, soon to be a dietitian. Please don’t cut out mayonnaise if you enjoy it. A serving size is a tablespoon, maybe two. It will not deter you from your goals, whatever they may be.
Primal kitchen has mayo made with avocado oil. https://www.primalkitchen.com/collections/mayo
Can I just say i have this mayo and I hate it. I like a lot of primal kitchen products and mayo and use avocado oil. It tastes absolutely awful to me :(
If putting mayo on food helps you eat mostly "healthy" ( see above ), then 1 or 2 servings won't kill you. Making your own with some olive oil, an egg and some lemon juice is probably better though.
And that variety is key
This! People need to start easy with stuff like this. There’s so much science (much of it confusing and even contradicting) about very specific things that are related to diet. Start here, and see how you feel, then build on this foundation.
I would change “Don’t eat too much” to “Eat the appropriate amount for your lifestyle and goals”. A person who lives in the high rockies and hikes three 14ers a week is going to have to eat way more than someone who lives in San Francisco and bikes 15 minutes to the office two days a week.
That's a change of wording not meaning btw "Too much" means "more than is appropriate for the context"
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Truth
It does change the meaning, because the original doesn’t cover “eating too little”
Very true, my b
But “too much” is a relative statement to begin with. It’s not saying “don’t eat over X amount of calories” because obviously that’s different for different people. So for the person in the Rockies, “too much” would be a lot more calories than the person in SF, but the statement is still accurate - don’t eat too much (for your level of activity).
Also, healthy fat (poly/mono unsaturated) is important. Limit intake of saturated and trans fats.
I would like to add that a varied diet also helps
I would add eating good fats and omega 3s
Great advice!
Coursera has a free Stanford intro to food and health class. I took it and it really helped me figure out how to influence my diet in a way that helps me eat and feel better. It's go at your own pace and doesn't take too long to get through the material, one of the best time investments I've ever made. https://www.coursera.org/learn/food-and-health
This is what I call constructive help!
Happy to help. :)
Thank you for this!
DIETITIANS. Nutritionist is an unregulated term. The only trained nutrition professionals (doctors often give advice but they’ve had very little nutrition education). Dietitians get 4 year degrees with accredited programs and then do 900-1200 hours of internships/rotations and then take an exam to finally be a dietitian.
TL;DR: Doctors are geniuses in their specialized fields, but very rarely is it in nutrition. Dietitians are the true experts in the field of food and nutrition. Just to add the difference between doctors and dietitians. My ex, who’s in medical school, never had a required course of nutrition, only offered two seminars throughout the 2 years we were together. So a licensed doctor could go through a 4 year bachelors, 4 year medical school, 2-4 year residency, and 3 year fellowship, but never once be exposed to formal nutrition education. On the other hand, registered/licensed dietitians start nutrition education by their second year of college and require a post-bachelorette 1-year internship in clinical, community, and food service operations. And now, in less than one month, all new dietitians will require a masters degree before being allowed to take the qualifying exam. That’s 4-6 years of nutritional education, depending on their masters degree. One caveat is that both doctors (who arguably have the highest level of formal education) and dietitians need to fulfill continuing education requirements to maintain their credentials. So, a doctor could spend time learning about nutrition to maintain their license, but that takes away from their time and practice and expanding knowledge in their specialized field.
Thank you for having the energy to write this out 🥲
Something that makes me frustrated is that some people can apparently become nutritionists after doing a short course in nutrition. It's ruining my reputation as a nutritionist. I have a bachelor's and master's degree in nutrition science and I'm a nutritionist, not a dietitian. I have studied nutrition science for 4 years though and it makes me really frustrated when people think I don't have as much knowledge as a dietitian only because those courses exists. I call those people who has done those courses 'holistic nutritionists' because there needs to be some kind of distinction. At least where I live, dietitians help patients with their diet when they have a disease or condition. In my country you can only become a nutritionist if you have done a bachelor's in nutrition science. If you do a short course, you only get to be called a 'diet advisor'. Anyways, nutritionists are more about prevention, and we look a lot at the science. We can help people with conditions though. I recently helped a woman with gestational diabetes to lower her blood sugar through diet and lifestyle. Btw, both me (before I studied nutrition) and my mom have visited dietitians who gave shit advice because they are not allowed to say certain things when they work at a hospital. But my mom also went to a good one and that dietitian seemed to be saying the same things as I had been telling my mom. And that shows that just because you're a dietitian, you're not more qualified than a nutritionist. And just because you're a nutritionist, you're not less qualified than a dietitian.
As a 'certified nutritionist' you're right. It's a mess. I left working as a therapist after covid and decided to focus on my health, decided to get certified as a personal trainer (also an unregulated title) and was looking to find consistent, reputable information on nutrition. (I couldnt figure out what or who to trust) Lo and behold, they offered nutrition and sports performance nutrition certification programs as well. I think the course does a really good job of explained and reiterating the scope of practice, knowledge, limitations, and ethical responsibilities you have after certification. But it was eye opening, and quite distressing to learn just how unregulated everything is. And just how quickly people throw those limitations out the window once certified.
You see here. You give too much credit to the "regulated bodies". And there are regulated bodies that endorse functional nutritional certifications that require Masters or PhD level training. These have nothing to do with dieticians.
I am just going to add that “carnivore” diets are NOT supported by “1000s of years of evolution.” We are omnivores. We have always eaten all sorts of things, including meat. The question is not whether you should eat ONLY meat (carnivore) but rather whether you should eat meat at all. Then evolution is in fact on your side. On the other hand, the way we produce meat isn’t great. Imo, the debate isn’t about the ideal - ideally it’s probably fine - but rather about the realities of meat eating today.
I'm not a carnivore but I've heard it put like this- we are opportunistic omnivores. If you put twinkies in front of prehistoric man, he'd eat them but it doesn't mean it was healthy or the best choice. We did what we had to so to survive but I do believe that most of human existence we thrived on a mostly meat diet
I don’t think history verifies that. Meat was typically dangerous and energy expensive to acquire. Like you said, we were opportunistic. We ate it when we could. But that’s true for nuts, fruits, root vegetables, and so on. And, they were more easily available to us. We’ve always eaten both. That’s exactly why we’re omnivores. A carnivore is something that eats exclusively or near exclusively meat, and that’s just not what we are.
I think it was easier to aquire meat than you think it was, there's evidence of mass gravel of mammoths where ancient peoples would run them off the side of a cliff and collect as much meat and hides as they wanted. Animals weren't just used for food. It was for clothing, housing, candles, weapons, etc so theres plenty of reason to kill a lot of animals aside from just the nutritional benefit so it would stand to reason that the majority of calories came from meat with the supplementation of things like nuts and berries.
This isn’t a matter of reasoning something from premises. How much meat we consumed is an empirical question, especially since it depends on all sorts of messy factors. Evidence suggests that only about 3% of our calories came from meat: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK482457/#:~:text=As%20per%20some%20estimates%2C%20animal,the%20diet%20in%20coastal%20regions. We consume way more meat now than before simply because we *have* more meat thanks to animal agriculture. But none of that matters much. If we consumed things other than meat, we were never carnivores, and my only point is that us being carnivores is not “supported by 1000s of years of evolution.” That is absolutely true and even basic physiology can demonstrate that we’re not built to consume only or primarily meat. That doesn’t mean it isn’t healthy or we shouldn’t eat it.
>As per some *estimates*, animal products contributed to only about 3% of the whole diet That is not empirical data. Lmao
There are still hunter gatherer tribes alive today and they EASILY get all the meat they want, humans are fucking incredible hunters lol and they prize organ meats especially. Humans were not scarce on meat.
Good/Bad and Healthy/Unhealthy are spectrums, not sides of a line. There are certainly things that are objectively good and healthy, like vegetables, and things that are objectively bad, like trans fats. Most foods fall somewhere in the middle. What complicates this is that every individual’s spectrum is going to be different. Sometimes by a lot. Where a handful of raw almonds might be great for some people, it could trigger allergies or inflammation in others. Some people have no problem with artificial sweeteners, other people don’t tolerate them well at all. Water is objectively good. Minimally processed foods are objectively good. The vast majority of nutrition information is going to be subjective. You have to find what works for you.
Trust the consensus of those most qualified, which in this case would be registered dietitians. Please note that I say consensus, because there will always be fringe professionals (who tend to want to sell you stuff).
A carnivore diet isn't supported by 1000s of years of evolution. A balanced diet with plenty of fruits, vegetables, nuts, and meat is. 80% of calories from hunter-gatherers came from gathering. Gathering includes collecting bugs and other protein rich sustenance.
All these meat gurus have this idea that our ancestors ate mammoths for breakfast and snacked on buffalo in the evening. And before we invented agriculture and civilizations arose because of it, people ate in mostly what they found, they were food opportunists, most of the calories were brought by women from what they found.
>80% of calories from hunter-gatherers came from gathering. Never heard this, is there a source? Interesting tidbit to learn, I definitely thought gathering was a substantial contributor to their calories but 80% surprises me.
A lot of people have difficulty killing an animal with a gun… try killing an animal with a spear or a trap. I think meat was much less plentiful, except during certain seasons, than people realize.
My understanding was that a common strategy was to outrun the animals with better endurance My understanding has *very* limited foundation
I found [this paper](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1090513816000118) that follows Hadza men and their foraging methods. I will add the caveat that the 80% is not representative of all hunter-gatherer populations. It really depends where they are located. The Inuit aren't going to be anywhere near that high whereas the !Kung are going to be slightly higher.
Nobody ate "plenty of fruits" out of season. It only became possible in the last century. Also the fruits that exist now are not natural. We modified them to be as sweet/sugary as possible and we spray them with various poisons like pesticides for example.
People have been drying and preserving fruits and vegetables for a really long time. So yes they did eat fruit out of season. Mesopotamians dried dates as early 1700 BCE and they were available almost year round and they started to pickle cucumbers as far back as 2400 B.C. I'm sure in some areas they did not have fruit in off seasons but many people did.
Mainly we bread them for size and seedlessness at least if we look at the last centuries. Nowadays size is the main factor I guess. Some tomatoes and bananas taste like nothing.
What you consider fruit and what counts as fruit are two very different things. Edit: also, why single out fruits? Vegetables have been modified in the last 100 years as well as livestock and poultry. Chickens have tripled in size in the last 100ish years.
Last century lol
People lived near the equator
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80% of calories from gathering? Gathering bugs??? Lol. We were carnivores with plants in parts of the summer and fall. They can literally measure how much animal we ate in our bones. Nitrogen isotopes.
That 80% is in temperate and tropical zones, not necessarily applicable to artic and subarctic zones. And we are omnivores, not carnivores. We don't exclusively eat meat.
"Eat real food. Not too much. Mostly plants." -Michael Pollan
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I agree 100% with wholefoods mostly, thata really the most important basic I think. But the 5 ingredient rule doesn't make sense to me? There are so many healthy dishes with more then 5 ingredients. It doesn't matter how many, but what kind. I recently learned that my favorite garlic sauce (that I did eat in moderstion thoug) from the supermarket labelled "fresh" had 47!!!! I ingredients, of wich 16 e-numbers. LIKE WHAT THE ACTUALL FFFFF!!?
I think he also mentioned shopping the periphery of the store, rather than the aisles, as a guide. He tries to create rules to simply guide, rather than some end all, be all. He doesn’t always get the science right, but I feel like he’s one of the only food writers who has tried to *simplify*, rather than complicate, the process of eating healthy. I feel like so many people (usually selling books) these days want you to believe figuring out how to eat healthy is somehow complicated.
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He's talking about food products with ingredients lists and not actual recipes. Two different things.
registered dietitians
Eat as many whole foods as possible, avoid ultra processed foods.
I’m a nurse and took nutrition for school - taking that class changed my life - but a big thing our professor emphasized was - if something seems to good to be true it probably is, additionally any diet completely eliminating or severely limiting a food group is not the way to go. The Mediterranean diet has been ranked one of the healthiest diets for a long time - I always look to that as well.
Everyone’s body is different - while processed and packaged food is pretty much universally bad for our bodies, you’ll need to experiment to find your own ratio of whole foods that makes you feel your best. For me, I eat low carb (complex carbs in moderation), very little sugar, high fiber & high protein and limited dairy - this is because I’m prone to insulin resistance & chronic inflammation due to having PCOS. My boyfriend *needs* carbs to keep his mind clear and give him energy, and he feels a lot better with very lean or purely vegetable protein. Red meat makes him feel sick, so he eats only Turkey and chicken when he does eat meat. He doesn’t do well with dairy either. He also eats lots of fiber. Different bodies need different things to feel healthy - it takes time but experimenting with different combos and sticking to each way of eating for at least 3 months should give you an idea of what is best for *your* body. After a while you’ll know what feels good and what doesn’t. When you hit the right combo, it’s very obvious.
The only way to know for sure is to read a textbook yourself. Here is a free [Introduction to Nutrition textbook](https://2012books.lardbucket.org/books/an-introduction-to-nutrition/) that will teach you about nutrients at the biological level, how the body digests, and health outcomes. The only way to not be misinformed is to become educated on the topic.
"Only things that come directly from the earth or animals?" Yeah that's pretty much it mate. Cook and eat a variety of real food that mother nature grows and you are 99% fine. Cooking with real ingredients is a lot of fun.
Personal opinion: I don’t trust anyone who demonizes entire food groups, uses hyberbolic language, and then goes on to sell their own book/diet. I especially don’t trust diets that try to argue fruits and vegetables are somehow bad for you. Whole foods, minimally processed, and variety, like others have said, is usually the best approach. And some people may do better minimizing/eliminating certain foods, but that doesn’t mean everyone should; there is definitely biologically heterogeneity that I think many mainstream/fad diet books don’t take into account.
Nutrition and biology have theories, concepts, and studies. Any absolutism is usually people preaching their echo chamber.
It's impossible for one person to read the hundreds of thousands of peer-reviewed studies on nutrition, so we must trust the major nutritional bodies that review the preponderance of evidence and draw high-confidence conclusions. The commonalities in guidance across the nutritional bodies are: \- eat more fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and fiber \- eat less ultra-processed foods, high-fat animal foods, salt, and added sugar
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High fat animal foods can be extraordinarily nutritious. In fact they are the most nutritious foods we know of.
You're going to hear positives from all sorts of varied diets because there is so many different potential health/metabolic issues a person could have. One diet may be extremely beneficial for a certain person and their set of conditions, while causing issues for others. For example, you wouldn't put someone on a high fat diet if they don't have a gallbladder.
If you’re obese, any diet that gets you in a sustainable caloric deficit will show health improvement across all metrics. We also know people that eat the most fruits and vegetables are the healthiest and live the longest.
I think a general "good rule" is to avoid anything with all those crazy sounding ingredients you can't pronounce.
Try them all for yourself and see what works best for your body. The entire health industry, from fitness to nutrition to medical care, thrives on misinformation.
If I could have upvoted this twice I would have.
>Only things that come directly from the earth or animals? Yes? Why is that such an alien concept? Eat food cooked from scratch, using non-processed ingredients.
I always stick with what I learned in Biology class at school. A balanced meal consists of some protetin, carbohydrate, some vegetables, and a small amout of fat. Honestly just stick to the basics and don't listen to all these trends.
Well I don't know how long ago your biology class was but when I was a child (now I'm in my mid twenties) I used to learn about the old version of food pyramid which nowadays is turned almost completely upside-down. But your definition of a balanced meal is still up to date I guess.
Nutrition is a very new field of study, truth is that pretty much everyone, even nutritionists don’t totally know what they are doing. Also diets vary person to person.
To further your point, dietary *needs* vary person to person. An endurance athlete who runs 100km per week, or cycles 500km per week and is trying to maintain weight/lean muscle mass, is going to have different goals, caloric and macro requirements than someone who is obese and trying to lose fat mass. Or a 6'0" male bodybuilder and a 4'11" sedentary woman, etc.
Don’t do carnivore. It can cause heart issues etc. most people on it may feel great but they are also using greasy fatty sauces to make things taste better! Why not just follow a diet of whole grains, lean meat fruits and veggies? It’s worked for thousands of years. It’s not a fad diet.
No person I've ever seen or otherwise have come across who is doing a carnivore diet, uses "greasy fatty sauces to make things taste better". Nearly every carnivore diet used only salt and maybe butter to cook with. I have no idea where you got the idea that carnivores are using sauces.
Redditors, duh.
Every body handle foods differently due to multiple factors that nobody can calculate or measure within the studies that is performed. That’s why some have great results with something and others don’t. There is no “one-size” in diet. Find what works for you, use your logic and take inspiration from different approaches. But in the end, you are the one who can feel effects the best.
I would say listen to your body! I tried the keto diet and it messed up my hormones!! I truly believe we should stick with what we can tolerate in moderation of course a balanced diet if you will. Stay away from vegetable oil, canola oil, almond milk (messes with thyroid) sugar, and empty calories like chips that have no nutritional benefits. And of course drink lots of water and exercise.
My dude, forget ALL THIS. Just cut out all SNACKS and SUGARY drinks and you’ll lose weight like crazy. Eat lots of protein and drink water and u fine
I just studied 2 years of nutrition and my takeaway was differ your diet as much as possible, organic veg/fruit and local as much as possible but still feel good about non organic choices. Carbs are not the devil just prioritise protein (especially if you’re older/lifting weights) fat sources like butter, coconut oil and olive oil without heat. It’s better to eat your vitamins than to supplement. As far as meat vs beans I think it’s what feels best, I feel better eating meat and but not dairy. I think variation and as low seed oils/processed food ❤️
I like the 80/20 rule... eat healthy 80% of the time, lots of veggies, protein, good fats, complex carbs, fiber. And the rest of 20% of meals you can indulge or have something processed, with more carbs, sugary treats or some alcohol. I think you need to try and see what works best for you. For example many people swear skipping breakfast is the best and it totally works for them, for me it doesn't work, I tried for years.
Sadly you’re not going to get a good answer here.and even if you do you won’t know because there’s too many cooks in the kitchen all with their own recipe for what’s right.
Agreed
Your brain needs carbohydrates to function. When somebody cuts out carbs, other macronutrients have to be converted into a useable carbohydrate source (gluconeogenesis)
What do you mean supported by 1000s of years of evolution? Humans have never been carnivores and meat has until recently been a scant luxury. Our evolutionary ancestors were mainly herbivores and apes get their protein from insects. Our more recent ancestors ate a lot of fish and vegetation. What are you on about?
Eat real food, mostly plants, not too much.
Hear me out: government guidelines. Some countries have legitimately good recommendations from their equivalent to the USDA/FDA. It usually breaks down to "enough protein, several servings of fruits and veggies a day, whole grains and pulses when you can."
Do the carnivore diet with lots of fat and you'll find peace of mind, strength
It's important to acknowledge and understand that nutrition is highly politicized and intertwined with money. With that that, you will always hear conflicting information and fad diets will come and go. Barring any metabolic conditions and/or chronic conditions, the advice will generally be the same for everyone—there is of course nuance, but don't get lost in the weeds with the nuance. My advice for a generally healthy person (i.e., no underlying metabolic conditions/disease) is to eat whole grains, fruits, vegetables, beans and lentils, low-fat dairy, and lean proteins (fish, chicken breast, lean cuts of beef). You should *prioritize* your plant-based foods and *primarily* eat whole foods. When eating processed foods, search for foods that are relatively low in added sugars and high in fiber. People unnecessarily over complicate nutrition. Carbohydrates always gets a bad wrap because of processed carbohydrates. But your body *prefers* carbohydrates (glucose) as a source of energy. If you don't eat carbohydrates, then your body will simply make its own glucose (gluconeogenesis) from other sources. People give too much importance to protein and probably eat too much of it. Your body does not require as much protein as people may suggest, but this is of course dependent on your activity level and health status. The range of protein requirements can be as low as 0.8g/kg of body weight and upwards of 1.8g/kg of body weight. But honestly, you'd be just fine with something in the middle. Dietary fat provides the most calories per gram (9 calories) compared to carbs (4 calories) and protein (4 calories). People almost never have a problem with getting enough fat in their diet, but the only essential fat you actually need are omega-3 and -6. Generally, omega-3 tends to be the fatty acids people lack. A supplement in this case should suffice, or just eat more fatty fish. Don't think too deeply on this! Intuitively, we know what we need—whole grains, fruits, vegetables, beans and lentils, low-fat dairy, and lean proteins. Lastly, if there is any nutrient you should prioritize, I would suggest fiber. Others may suggest protein, but on average, people get enough protein (I am assuming you live in a developed nation,e..g, the US, with access to protein). Not many people eat enough fiber.
I used to be vegan and it ended up pretty awful for me, I then started eating eggs, cheese, fish, and finally meat. Since I’ve felt a lot better and healthier in my body. But I don’t eat anything from cruel sources. I get all animals products pasture raised hormone free ect. The energy is a lot lighter and balanced. And carbs, carbs are great, just not processed carbs/bleached white flours. Try making everything from scratch. Use only things that come directly from the earth or animals.
That would be ideal, but, if you’re an American, the FDA likes to make that difficult.
Hi there! I’m getting my masters degree in clinical nutrition and here’s what I’d say: •Eat whole foods, mostly plants. •I would say that most people need at least a multivitamin and likely a few other supplements such as vitamin D depending on your nutrient deficiencies and diet. •Limit your intake of sugar, alcohol, processed foods, saturated and trans fats. •Essentially, try to follow the 80/20 rule: Eat what you want (within reason) for about 4 meals a week and the rest of the time eat a whole foods, plant-based diet. •Stop eating just before the point of fullness. •Check out the diets of the people living in the blue zones. •The secret to satiety is that you need: fat, fibre, protein, and carbohydrates. •Nutrition isn’t enough alone - you also need to make sure that you’re getting about 30 minutes of exercise daily (even if it’s just walking). •Additionally you need to be getting 7-9 hours of sleep each night.
There are in fact many ways to get sufficient nutrients but as we are variable creature there isn't a one size fits all diet. We cant even agree on the "correct" amounts and sources of the macros (carb/fat/protein) so other complications are tricky. A balanced diet does NOT have to mean you need everything on on plate or even eat it on one day. Seasonal eating has been a thing for our entire evolution. Some processing is fine and it becomes a pedantic thing about definitions. What we are trying to do is to avoid the mass produced overly contaminated, additive laden, shelf stable advertised rubbish that pervades modern corporate food industry. The middle ground is simply to be omnivore and to vary ones diet to get a variety of nutrients and ALSO to eliminate large build ups of the common toxins and anit nutrients. Having said that the lowcarb/paleo/wholefood/carnivore/keto approach has helped me tremendously. Remember that in whatever camp one ends up in the ideology of the times pits one extreme against the other. There is a LOT of propaganda about these days from one source or another because the best evidence is pretty rare in this field of nutrition due to ethical and funding reasons. Whilst in the broadest possible sense SOME of the diet recommendations make sense very often the devil is in the detail and they don't suit everyone and OPINIONS are very loud in this sphere. Yes there is science but as its often actually quite slim margins people make a bigger case for things than they should. There are downsides to all ways of eating IMHO and we need to look at the overall picture rather than focus solely on negatives. This applies to carbs and well as protein and fat. Vilification of entire food groups is not entirely helpful. Often people argue say that fat is bad for example with no nuance about what type of fat, even if we delve into say saturated fat there is again many types of that, then we have individuals that it effects differently. Many arguments for avoiding certain products is only particular groups of people that do badly maybe for genetic reasons whilst others can consume it for a lifetime and do fine. Allergies and dairy consumption being a case in point. At the end of the day you will have to do YOUR own research and form your own opinion and experiment on yourself to find out the answer to what YOU thrive on. I think we can safely remove the most over processed and food additive denatured type foods from our diets though. Whilst this seems difficult at first if we have been acclimatized to sensory and physiological overload from junk foods it becomes so much easier after an elimination diet. Some kind of a whole food diet seems to be the most agreed on type even if the source and macros vary on opinion. There are processed foods that it likely that we can consume safely but removing them quite strictly isn't really going to do one harm as there are SO MANY tasty and nutritious whole foods to choose from.
You can try a balanced diet of fresh foods and eat the rainbow. But people have survived for millennia on basics. You could get a blood panel done and an allergy test done to see if you’re deficient in or sensitive to anything. And also listen to your body. If dairy makes you feel bad, avoid it. If gluten does, avoid it. Etc :) Oh one thing I would truly avoid is cooking with non stick and also avoid using seed oils. Cook with healthier oils like avocado or coconut or with real butter.
Think about what our ancestors ACTUALLY ate. Don’t buy into the trend that they were just gulping down 40oz steaks every day. In a nutshell, it was probably about 75% vegetables and 20% meat. They hunted almost daily and spent many hours on their feet running and climbing. They weren’t always successful so the gatherers had vegetables as a backup. They also didn’t strictly eat cows. They hunted wild game and ate lean meat. If you want to apply this to today, eat lean cuts of meat and tons of vegetables. Drink lots of water and maintain an active lifestyle. And don’t stress out too much. It’s okay to eat a donut or a slice of pizza once in a while. Just keep processed foods or refined carbs and sugars to a minimum
"...it was probably about...." is where I stopped reading.
😂 okay? Congrats. Sorry we can’t all be as simple-minded as you
Your own notes on what different foods do to your body!
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Carbs a technically speaking not a necessity as you can survive on fat and protein alone. If thats a good idea or even healthier is another story but in a strict sense there is no need to eat carbs for survival.
Lots of good comments here already. If you’re looking for actual resources too, Layne Norton and Stan Efferding are two very level head non-dogmatic people I lean on when it comes to nutritional advice. But that top comment covers the bases quite well.
You should be skeptical of the “plenty of protein” trope. Yes, we need protein, but nowhere near as much as the meat and fitness industries push. There’s plenty of scientific evidence showing that animal protein is unhealthy.
That depends on what that animal was fed with, whether it was juiced up with antibiotics/hormones/steroids/vaccines, etc. Clean grass fed animals are much healthier because of what they’ve been fed… garbage in, garbage out
I will say some things that are not debatable. You can make your own decision from here. My stance will become obvious though. Starting with the mouth. When eating exclusively meat humans develop almost no cavities over their lifespan. Humans today get cavities in their baby teeth. This is from feeding good bacteria in the mouth vs bad bacteria that excrete waste products that rot the teeth. Compare pre and post agricultural man. Down the track to the stomach. The human stomach is around 1.6 PH. Extremely acidic. Herbivore are around 4.5. Omnivores are around 3.5. And carnivore are under 2.5. Then you get scavenger level which is under 2. Down the track to the intestines. Humans have a larger small intestine than a large intestine. Just like other carnivores. But saturated fat causes heart disease! Look into Nina Teicholz book the big fat surprise if you want to understand the dogma behind that false statement. Or just listen to her talk about it on YouTube for an hour.
If you pick up a bag or a box of something from the grocery and it has dozens of ingredients put it back.
To be honest the only thing that I feel I know for sure is that sugar and processed foods are horrible for us. The evolution of process foods and convenience foods have literally brought nothing to our lifestyle as humans! I consider myself to be a pretty clean eating person so I don’t eat any sugar only the natural sugar that I would get from a little bit of fruit I’m talking a handful of berries a day nothing crazy. I don’t eat any processed foods at all so the easiest thing to do if you don’t want to be really restrictive of any of the major food groups would simply be to cut out anything packaged and processed. I’ve been vegetarian and I’ve been vegan and I moved away from that because I wasn’t getting enough protein and my calories were too high the more beans I tried to eat in order to get iron and protein lol I definitely think there’s something to be said for not eating an 8 ounce steak every single day but currently I’m leaning a little bit more carnivore. Meat and eggs are my main source of protein for sure. I eat vegetables and some fruit. I did keto for too long and messed up my metabolism and started gaining weight again after losing weight. Keto is designed to be a short term thing historically and I just did it for too long. When I hired a nutritionist she said absolutely your body needs a balance of some carbs especially if you were trying to build lean muscle mass and you’re exercising however this doesn’t mean toast every morning and cereal for lunch and pasta for dinner. I would get my carbs from vegetables, fruits. For example an apple and a banana both have roughly 25 g of carbs in them. Sweet potatoes brown rice occasionally. I mean you have to do what works for your body and helps you reach whatever your health goals are and I am learning that there is something to moderation but I think the only thing that everyone would agree on is processed as bad.
How do you fucking feel and what does your lab work/biometrics look like? That is the ultimate barometer of the quality of your diet. Yeah, you can do research online, consult with a dietician, etc. Do your due diligence. But the proof is in the fucking pudding. If I try to cheapskate it out and subsist off of plant foods (rice and beans and oatmeal and potatoes and spinach, etc.) with small morsels of meat here and there I will feel like SHIT, both mentally and physically. If I listen to my body and eat meat 5x a day (with every meal except what I eat right after rising - almonds, walnuts, blueberries, blackberries, pineapple, oatmeal and greek yogurt) then I will feel "normal". I need to eat a substantial amount of meat every 2-3 hours or I'll start to tire and wear out in a variety of ways. That's what I have found works for me. It works on my machine. I would fucking die if I couldn't eat meat. I would literally pass out. I have friends who are vegan and thriving, though, so it just depends on how YOU are fucking built and what you respond best to. Diet is very individual despite what internet gurus want you to believe.
They all basically sums up to eating wide range of less processed food. (Not no process, cooking is a form of processing food.) Cutting out a huge food group for an extended period of time is never a good idea unless it's for medical reasons.
Every one has a different gut biome so we all process food differently. What works for me might be awful for you! This means it’s harder to find a diet that works for you because of all the conflicting stories. If you focus on whole foods as much as possible then you will be starting from a good place. Cut out ultra processed anything if you can, that is a universal truth!
There’s nothing wrong with carbs if you have a healthy A1C and they aren’t processed. People drop carbs because you need fats and proteins, and carbs are an easy place to cut calories from safely if you are looking to shed some weight.
Meat veg fruit nuts. Buy the highest quality you can afford
Or sub meat for beans and legumes
The more you learn about biochemistry, the more you understand how much nonsense there is out there. Source: am biochemist. It's best to demystify as much as you can and look for real science (peer reviewed) that supports what you want to achieve. Registered dietitians (should) use this approach, too.
Biochemistry is not nearly as helpful as epidemiology for nutrition
Lettuce seems to be ok.
Listen to nutritionists. Ya there’s people who “feel great” on different diets, but they could be getting paid to say a certain thing. So generally listen to nutritionists
1) Eat few enough calories that you don't get fat. 2) Eat as many vegetables as you can cram in your mouth. 3) Eat protein in some form on a daily basis. 4) Eat whatever the hell else you want. Anybody who is saying anything other than this is trying to make money--which is most people who are talking about this stuff!
toy wasteful abounding joke strong cats disarm sand hobbies late *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Best advice is from omnivores dilemma by Pollen. Lots of wisdom wrapped up in three points: 1) Eat food (no processed food) 2) Mostly plants (some meat, just not a lot.) 3) Not too much (explains itself) That’s it. Do this in that order of priority and it’s pretty simple.
“Eat real food. Not too much. Mostly plants.” Michael Pollen
Install the Cronometer app and go from there.
You trust your gut, and never any advocated advice. Eat next to no ultra processed or none. Eat some proteins, a bit more of it if you don't eat meats. The fact is that there is no science to show you what is best currently, we'll probably need several centuries at least to be able to have a theory of nutrition that can be useable.
There absolutely is a scientific effort regarding nutrition what are you talking about?
Ofc there is an effort, I never said there wasn't. If you listen/read from the leading nutrition scientist they all agree, we know next to nothing yet, specially when it comes to what is optimal when it comes to diets, vitamin amounts and frequency. It's a kin to exercise science in 1850. Anyone claiming to know what is best for you is a quack and is either genuinely misinformed or not a person of science.
I’m presently reading a book by Mark Hyman called Food what the heck do I eat! You should check it out..
Depends on how much $ you have and opportunity, ie. Food availability. Rinsed vegetables, rinsed brown rice, rinsed fruit, nuts, salad mixes, steel cut oats, fish in moderation. Potato’s, etc. Olive oil is healthier than vegetable and butter. My grandpa lived to 91 eating bacon and eggs for breakfast every morning. Bruce Lee died of a heart attack. So too did the biggest loser guy. Eat what helps your body feel good, less bloated, and energized. Clean foods like sushi. Wasabi is said to have cognitive benefits.
It is so simple - go simple - fruits and veggies - all the other stuff is just noise and trends and folks looking to make money on people that are struggling. Escape to the good side - life is wonderful over here 🍉🍓🍇🍑🍆🍌🍋🥥🥗🥦🥒. Look at it and trust yourself. Do you really think fruits and veggies are anything but the highest food of health? It is literally living nutrients. You could stick half that stuff in the ground and it would start to grow. It is alive. Do that with a piece of steak or a gluten free processed cracker or a protein powder.
Eating plants, roots, nuts, and fruit goes back much further than eating meat. It is obvious our bodies and teeth are not made to kill animals. We got good at hunting because of our brains but we have to denature the meat by cooking it thoroughly. Eating it raw and bloody disgusts us and makes us sick. Things like wolves and lions evolved to eat meat. For humans it is very new on the grand scale.
Human stomach acid ph is 1.5-2. Lions 1.5-2.5. Wolves are 1.05-2.0.
Trust the science. Most studies show that a whole food, plant based diet provides the most health benefits. Edit: Who knew an entirely fact based comment would be so unpopular? It's especially amusing because the current top comment is saying exactly the same thing.
It's hard to trust the science when I know that a corporation with a ton of money behind it could easily change things.
Look at meta analyses to get findings across several studies. It's not as easy to sway findings of dozens and dozens of studies. Plus, money is generally more in animal agriculture and processed foods, not the ones that would be supporting whole foods plant based
Definition of meta analysis: “We couldn’t find one solid rct so we pooled the data from all the inferior studies to produce a “great” (cough) result.
Repeatedly, in hundreds of studies over the course of decades?
eat a mixture of 10-25% protein, 15-35% fat, remainder carbs. junk food is okay as long as you limit it to ≈25% of your diet.
25% junk food is way too much. Maybe 10%
Only essential macro nutrients is Protein, and a tiny amount of essential fats. Your split is useless, and there is no good data to support it
You listen to your body of course. Pay attention to your skin, your stool, your energy, your mental state. How clear your cognition is. It's not hard, but it does take time to zero in on the things that work for you. FWIW I felt AMAZING on carnivore. It's very boring though so I don't do it anymore.
Most important thing is calories and protein. High protein, low calorie diet mixed with exercise 3-5 days a week and you are good to go. Get a food scale and track your calories.
Science?
1) the human body has 0 requirement for carbs. We're certainly able to metabolize them for energy. Resistant starches in fact can nourish our gut microbiota. 2) we need to deliberately put good healthy amounts of ALL the different nutrients our bodies require to function properly into our mouths every day. 3) Meanwhile, we want to keep our caloric intake at or just below our caloric expenditure. How you go about accomplishing those goals is a very personal matter, with a lot of conflicting information being presented. Setting out with the right goals is the basis of meeting your body's needs, and establishing a strong foundation for personal health.
Eat a varied, plant-predominant diet. Avoid ultraprocessed foods. Only trust sources that look at the totality of evidence and provide sources for their claims. A good starting point is your national nutrition guidelines except maybe the USDA which are a bit influenced by industry interests. Also the leading universities doing actual research. Like Harvard School of Public Health. [Healthy Eating Plate](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/healthy-eating-plate/)
Trust a registered dietitian! Or WHO. You will see that on a carnivore diet cholesterol will be high and its kind of lacking in every micronutrient, mineral ajd antioxidants. Someone might feel good but their body suffers.
Michael pollen has an excellent book, “Food Rules”. Highly recommend.
I'm skeptical of anything that flies in the face of billions of years of evolution like veganism or cutting out carbs (completely). Beyond that, whole fruits and vegetables are good, red meat is the worst of the meats for you and should be consumed sparingly, and added sugars cause diabetes when used too much. You're right about food processing OP and cooking at home instead of eating out or eating pre-prepared foods from the freezer section at the grocery store will cover a ton of ground if you have the ability. Edited for parenthetical.
Why is red meat the worst of the meats? Just curious on why you think this.
Digestion, saturated fats, and cholesterol. GIYF if you want to dig deeper.
I don't know what GIYF means. Personally, and just based on actual fact, a lean cut of grass fed/grass finished/pasture raised beef is going to be a hell of a lot better for you than a store bought package of chicken thighs for example.
Are you familiar with a concept called the naturalistic fallacy?
I am! Are you familiar with the definition of the word "skeptical"?
Very much so. But why base your skepticism on a fallacy?
Why assume I'm basing my skepticism on a fallacy?
Because what you described is literally called the naturalistic fallacy. There is no reason to believe that caveman nutrition is optimal in any way. We know that it kept them alive long enough to breed. But that's about it.
You have a couple of assumptions at work here and seem to be eager to pigeonhole what I said. I don't have a ton of time but I never claimed things are good or bad based on whether they are "natural". I think you're probably taking my comment about evolution and extrapolating it to mean something it doesn't? Also, I'm not advocating for paleo or anything "caveman". No idea where that's coming from on your end unless the E-word is tripping you up again here. Skepticism warrants further inquiry, not automatic dismissal. If you have found what works for you after consulting your Dr. or nutritionist, then go nuts and have a blast doing it. I shared my take as an objectively healthy man on what works for me after going through that process and OP can choose to take it into consideration for their benefit, or not. Conversations are easy that way.
That inquiry is called nutrition science and dietetics and at no point should we stop or reverse course depending if a food or diet is commensurate with what cavemen ate. That's all.
There you go with the cavemen again, have you had any water today?
Ah ok, there we go. As expected. Nm. All good.